Local news: The love of a mother.

[SpookyWriter]

http://www.azcentral.com/12news/homepageimgs/i_momarrest0430.jpg (http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/deadbaby04302007-CR.html)

The statement goes on to say that Tureman said she then "wrapped the baby in a towel and hid it in the trash can in the same bathroom where she gave birth." The report says she then moved the baby to a trash can outside her house, and later that day put it in a garbage bag and drove it to the Chevron gas station where it was later found by police.


http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/deadbaby04302007-CR.html

[Anya Smith]

What a sorry excuse for a mother. :cry:

[czjaba]

I say burn the b***h.

[tourdeforce]

At least she didn't have an abortion.

That would have been really wrong.

[SpookyWriter]

She claims she didn't even know she was pregnant until the baby was born. WTF? How can you not know you're pregnant?

P.S. This wasn't the worse story on the local news. They get better. It's a free-for-all of murder, rape, robbery, and arson here in Phoenix. What happened to Phoenix, it's not the same city I remember as a child. It's too violent and scary living here.

My daughter told me that her boyfriends car was broken into a few weeks ago and they live in a gated community.

I can't wait to leave. But where is it safe? Philadelphia? Chicago? New York City?

[czjaba]

I had a friend once that had a baby and swore up and down she didn't know she was pregnant. She was 21-years-old and living on her own, and really had no reason to keep it secret. The baby was born premature, on the bathroom floor, with about 45 minutes of labor. She said the baby was a surprise, and probably an accident, but a human being could never be a mistake.

[SpookyWriter]

I so agree. But what this mother did was have the baby in the tub, filled with water, and then let the baby drown. She watched the whole thing...

What kind of human being would do this to a child?

Read the whole article. Then tell me "why?".

[czjaba]

She definitely needs to FRY! She just had an affair and got caught. Maybe I am reading too much into it, but that is the way I see it.

[SpookyWriter]

She definitely needs to FRY! She just had an affair and got caught. Maybe I am reading too much into it, but that is the way I see it.Is she so unusual? I read several of these types of stories over the past year while in Arizona. Is this so unique in our society.

We just had two leads this week. One about girls who had expressed indifference to killing thier teen friend. Another story about a man feeding a puppy to his snake.

What a country. Hoolaaa...and the kooks are out tonight.

[Joe270]

This really sucks. Most cities have drop-offs, no questions asked, at firestations and paramedic stations. This is uncalled for. You don't want the child, fine, do something humane.

I doubt this woman would do this to a cute little puppy.

[SpookyWriter]

This really sucks. Most cities have drop-offs, no questions asked, at firestations and paramedic stations. This is uncalled for. You don't want the child, fine, do something humane.

I doubt this woman would do this to a cute little puppy.Like feed it to a snake? Sorry, that was last weeks news. :cry:

[Joe270]

No, no, Spook, you just can't go there. Not right, no.

(But part of me wonders if the uproar will be as loud.)

[Rainy Night]

P.S. This wasn't the worse story on the local news. They get better. It's a free-for-all of murder, rape, robbery, and arson here in Phoenix. What happened to Phoenix, it's not the same city I remember as a child. It's too violent and scary living here.

I feel the same about Phoenix. I can't wait to get out of here.

[SpookyWriter]

I feel the same about Phoenix. I can't wait to get out of here.I'm here for a few more months and then * poof * I'm gone. I can't stand watching the local news because it's just too damn depressing. Last night was one violent crime after another for the first ten minutes. I had to get up and walk away.

[Kate Thornton]

How sad.

It is not that uncommon for some women to be unaware of a pregnancy, especially if they are prone to weight gain and irregular periods.

I feel awful that this woman felt she had no other choice.

[scarletpeaches]

She claims she didn't even know she was pregnant until the baby was born. WTF? How can you not know you're pregnant?

Quite easily. Your periods carry on as normal, you don't gain weight or throw up, you don't feel the baby move. It's more common than you'd think.

[Rainy Night]

I'm here for a few more months and then * poof * I'm gone. I can't stand watching the local news because it's just too damn depressing. Last night was one violent crime after another for the first ten minutes. I had to get up and walk away.
I came here a year ago from Seattle to be closer to my wife's family. She grew up here and echoes your comments, it's not the same Phoenix. I'm looking for work pretty much anywhere in the West. As soon as I have a job we're gone.

One thing we noticed when we got to the valley was the amount of "breaking news" - regular shows are constantly being interrupted with the grim details of some violent crime. It's only going to get worse as it gets hotter.

[SpookyWriter]

I feel awful that this woman felt she had no other choice.Kate, she left the baby in the bathtub and watched it drown. Choice? Hmmm...

[scarletpeaches]

Kate didn't say she had no other choice. She said she thought she had no other choice.

[Celia Cyanide]

I feel awful that this woman felt she had no other choice.

Yes, it's bizarre. How would her husband have even known if she had let the baby live? He must not have been there when she gave birth, so WTF???

[calamity]

The thing is, no one knows what was going through this woman's mind at the time. In certain contexts and under circumstances, we are all suseptible to doing horrible things -- each and every one of us. There's a situation like that for all of us, a set of conditions and circimstances in which we would buckle under the pressure, snap, and we're just lucky most of our lives not to fall into it. Judge not is what I say.

[Tiger]

Judge not is what I say.

Would you also say, arraign not, or convict not?

[Southern_girl29]

I honestly try not to judge anyone, but when you hurt a child, a defenseless, helpless newborn baby, especially, I say you are opening yourself up for judgment. Why? I mean, really. Why did she think she had no other choice? Most states say you can leave a newborn baby at a hospital, police station or other safe place with no questions asked. Her husband didn't even need to know about it.

[maestrowork]

The thing is, no one knows what was going through this woman's mind at the time. In certain contexts and under circumstances, we are all suseptible to doing horrible things -- each and every one of us.

I'm sorry, but killing a baby (especially my own) is not one of those things I would EVER do under any circumstances. This is murder, plain and simple.

[Writer2011]

I say burn the b***h.
My sentiments exactly...Better yet have a picture blown up life size plastered all over the cell walls as a daily reminder.

[czjaba]

My sentiments exactly...Better yet have a picture blown up life size plastered all over the cell walls as a daily reminder.


We have laws against cruel and unusual punishment. I ask why? If people can do cruel and unusual fatal things to other people, why not let the punishment fit the crime?
If she were held down in a bathtub full of water facing the only person in this world she felt a connection with, but not let her drown. Let her feel!

Guess, it's a good thing I don't make the rules, huh?

[tourdeforce]

I'm sorry, but killing a baby (especially my own) is not one of those things I would EVER do under any circumstances. This is murder, plain and simple.

Pop quiz, hot shot:

A deranged baby on meth is coming at you swinging an axe. He's wearing body armor but you can get one good shot between his eyes when he's on the down-swing.

What do you do?

[Writer2011]

We have laws against cruel and unusual punishment. I ask why? If people can do cruel and unusual fatal things to other people, why not let the punishment fit the crime?
If she were held down in a bathtub full of water facing the only person in this world she felt a connection with, but not let her drown. Let her feel!

Guess, it's a good thing I don't make the rules, huh?
I agree with you 100%.... We say that lethal injection is cruel and unusal and they suffer---what about the victim? Did they not suffer an agonizing, slow death?

In certain countries, it's an eye for an eye---

The last public execution in my hometown was in 1902~~

You're right, I too don't make the rules either.

[Joe270]

Pop quiz, hot shot:

A deranged baby on meth is coming at you swinging an axe. He's wearing body armor but you can get one good shot between his eyes when he's on the down-swing.

What do you do?


Oh, my, god. Tour, I know who you are! I won't name your real name, but your initials are Quentin Tarentino, right?:D

[SpookyWriter]

Oh, my, god. Tour, I know who you are! I won't name your real name, but your initials are Quentin Tarentino, right?:DI was thinking more like Opie. The dude took a bad turn when he lost his hair. He's a freak.

[Joe270]

Sorry, I sorta took this a little off thread, eh?

Let's get back to killing babies.

[czjaba]

I agree with you 100%.... We say that lethal injection is cruel and unusal and they suffer---what about the victim? Did they not suffer an agonizing, slow death?

In certain countries, it's an eye for an eye---

The last public execution in my hometown was in 1902~~

You're right, I too don't make the rules either.

What is the youngest age of execution that you know of?

[SpookyWriter]

Embryo.

[maestrowork]

Pop quiz, hot shot:

A deranged baby on meth is coming at you swinging an axe. He's wearing body armor but you can get one good shot between his eyes when he's on the down-swing.

What do you do?

I'd turn off the TV, if I were you.

[tourdeforce]

If you were given a chance to go back in time and kill Hitler before the Holocaust, but the timing was such that little Adolph was a baby, would you kill him? Would you kill a little baby?

[SpookyWriter]

If you were given a chance to go back in time and kill Hitler before the Holocaust, but the timing was such that little Adolph was a baby, would you kill him? Would you kill a little baby?Nah, I'd probably kill you first for suggesting that Adolf was an ugly baby. He was cute enough to become a killer of a man.

[scarletpeaches]

I'm sorry, but killing a baby (especially my own) is not one of those things I would EVER do under any circumstances. This is murder, plain and simple.

I don't think you'll ever have to go through pregnancy and childbirth though.

And it amazes me the amount of people in this thread who claim to be anti-cruelty, yet they're quite happy to devise the most cruel and unusual punishments as a form of vengeance - yes, vengeance, not punishment or rehabilitation.

[Ol' Fashioned Girl]

I don't call it 'vengeance', though. I call it 'justice'.

[scarletpeaches]

How is it justice to make yourself as bloodthirsty as others say this woman is? Wouldn't you be sinking to her level?

If you want her dead, fair enough. Not something I agree with, but hey, different people, different opinions. It's the "Hey! Let's torture her to death!" mentality that sickens me.

[Ol' Fashioned Girl]

You wouldn't like me much in RL. When McVay was convicted of the OKC bombing, I wanted to put him in a cement-lined bunker with images of the dead babies and body parts of the victims flashed on the walls, floor and ceiling of his cell 24-7 - and remove his eyelids.

Not that I think he would have cared.

[tourdeforce]

Yes, it is apparent that you are quite a zealous advocate of torture and decidely vicious execution.

[maestrowork]

For the record, I didn't advocate cruel and inhumane punishment for this woman. She could go to jail for her natural life with no parole if that's just. I'm merely saying that for those who ask, "Oh, maybe she's having problems... we should sympathize..." I'm sorry, killing a baby earns no sympathy from me no matter what her "problems" are. And stop patronizing me with this Hitler/Chucky crap. Are we really so damn heartless to justice child murder? And please don't drag that abortion debate in here either -- this is not about abortion. This is about an actual baby -- a living human being already born. Maybe she has psychological issues -- fine. But it's still a capital crime against a defenseless person. That baby wasn't even given a chance.

Nope, no sympathy.

[Jean Marie]

How is it justice to make yourself as bloodthirsty as others say this woman is? Wouldn't you be sinking to her level?

If you want her dead, fair enough. Not something I agree with, but hey, different people, different opinions. It's the "Hey! Let's torture her to death!" mentality that sickens me.
Since she chose to torture a tiny baby, she should pay for her crime. I don't suggest torture for her, but, she has to pay. I hope she spends a long time in prison for what she did to a helpless human being that she just gave birth to.

If she pleads insanity; good for her. She still drowned her infant, then proceeded to wrap it up and dispose of it, like a piece of useless garbage. Somewhere in there, an inkling of the inhuman cruelty she was performing may have rung a tiny bell in her deranged brain...possibly.

Sadly and disgustingly, these kinds of cases have become a dime-a-dozen, nationwide. Perhaps, worldwide.

Question: What other species does the same w/ their young, on such a regular basis? I really don't know the answer. I'm wondering if anyone does.

[Tiger]

They used to do such things as burn the entrails of criminals before their eyes, draw & quarter, rack, wheel, and do all kinds of fun things with hot irons. Then, they used to display the bodies in public squares--all in the name of deterrence.

The good old days...

My feelings on capitol punishiment change almost daily, but I don't think that turning to Medieval solutions defines us in a flattering way.

[Jean Marie]

Yeah, now we've got Hollywood to entertain us :)

[WildScribe]

You're in the bath tub on a regular day, and feel pain in your abdomen. After a while, you manage to push a totally unexpected baby out of your body. Your husband is jealous/insecure, and definitely infertile. And then you remember that rape months ago. How long does it take for this horror to flash through your head? A minute? Five? How long does it take to desperately try to figure out what to do without anyone finding out (if you pick it up, it might cry...)

Sick? Yes, certainly. I feel very sorry for her and the baby both. I also feel that what she did is deserving of punishment. It was murder. But I still feel sorry for her.

[Tiger]

Question: What other species does the same w/ their young, on such a regular basis? I really don't know the answer. I'm wondering if anyone does.

Several species eat their young if they are born in times or places that make rearing them untenable; some simply abandon the newborn to die if they fail to take minimal steps to ensure their own survival. For most others, abandoning them is the extent of their parenting. No hard feelings. It boils down to some pretty well-defined criteria for survival with instinct running the show.

I think humans rely little upon instinct compared to other species. Our decisions to mate, give birth, rear offspring, etc. are just that: decisions. IMO... While these decisions occasionally suck a*se, no other species would regularly do something like adopt the offspring of unrelated individuals and raise them as their own.

Maybe we're not so terrible.

[Jersey Chick]

I read this and then wanted to throw up. It's sick. Just plain sick. I hope she never sleeps a peaceful night again and when her time is up, St. Peter just looks at her and laughs his holy butt off, all the while pointing to the Down escalator.

I'm going to hug my toddler now.

[tourdeforce]

Sadly and disgustingly, these kinds of cases have become a dime-a-dozen, nationwide. Perhaps, worldwide.


Really?

You would think that they would report all these cases in the news.

[SpookyWriter]

Really?

You would think that they would report all these cases in the news.They do:

Google search criteria:

child abuse "news" local

Returned:

Results 1 - 10 of about 22,300,000 for child abuse (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&q=http://www.answers.com/child%2Babuse%26r%3D67&usg=AFrqEzfBlZ6FFiJFVN7fT4y6BysH6IsQ9A) "news (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&q=http://www.answers.com/news%26r%3D67&usg=AFrqEzdZbTonoQZaIF7eBBL2C5gA9_TkIA)" local (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&q=http://www.answers.com/local%26r%3D67&usg=AFrqEzeNMJQqNTKENGZyGcQGt4C8BJ_XdQ)

----

Top story

Former Daycare Provider Testifies Against Child Abuse

Sylvia Vasquez did not take her children to see medical doctors or therapists even though, as Vasquez has claimed, they suffered from numerous health challenges.

The former daycare provider admitted that to the prosecution on Tuesday as her sentencing hearing on felony child abuse continued.

Senior Deputy District Attorney peppered Sylvia Vasquez on the books that Vasquez claims helped her deal with her four emotionally challenged children.
The former daycare provider has testified that the children were locked in their rooms at night on the advice of experts.

These were claims that Senior Deputy District Attorney Joyce Dudley worked to debunk.

KEY News Reporter Michelle Cole reports from the trial.

Story Created: Apr 25, 2007 at 6:05 PM PDT
----------

Ya think we are blind this child abuse?

[Tiger]

Really?

You would think that they would report all these cases in the news.

http://www.chicagoist.com/archives/2006/10/28/teenager_charged_with_newborns_murder.php (http://www.chicagoist.com/archives/2006/10/28/teenager_charged_with_newborns_murder.php)

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/chavez071598.html (http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/chavez071598.html)

http://crime.about.com/b/a/242676.htm (http://crime.about.com/b/a/242676.htm)

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=local&id=3532100 (http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=local&id=3532100)

[maestrowork]

Question: What other species does the same w/ their young, on such a regular basis? I really don't know the answer. I'm wondering if anyone does.

Hamsters (yes, you read it right -- the cute little hammies) eat their young if they believe a) it's overcrowded, b) if the baby is sick, and b) if the survival of the rest is jeopardized by the babies. They also eat their deceased to conserve "food."

[SpookyWriter]

Really?

You would think that they would report all these cases in the news.They do:

Google search criteria:

child abuse "news" local

Returned:

Results 1 - 10 of about 22,300,000 for child abuse (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&q=http://www.answers.com/child%2Babuse%26r%3D67&usg=AFrqEzfBlZ6FFiJFVN7fT4y6BysH6IsQ9A) "news (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&q=http://www.answers.com/news%26r%3D67&usg=AFrqEzdZbTonoQZaIF7eBBL2C5gA9_TkIA)" local (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&q=http://www.answers.com/local%26r%3D67&usg=AFrqEzeNMJQqNTKENGZyGcQGt4C8BJ_XdQ)

----

Top story

Former Daycare Provider Testifies Against Child Abuse

Sylvia Vasquez did not take her children to see medical doctors or therapists even though, as Vasquez has claimed, they suffered from numerous health challenges.

The former daycare provider admitted that to the prosecution on Tuesday as her sentencing hearing on felony child abuse continued.

Senior Deputy District Attorney peppered Sylvia Vasquez on the books that Vasquez claims helped her deal with her four emotionally challenged children.

The former daycare provider has testified that the children were locked in their rooms at night on the advice of experts.

These were claims that Senior Deputy District Attorney Joyce Dudley worked to debunk.

KEY News Reporter Michelle Cole reports from the trial.

Story Created: Apr 25, 2007 at 6:05 PM PDT
----------
Ya think we are blind this child abuse?

[scarletpeaches]

Hamsters (yes, you read it right -- the cute little hammies) eat their young if they believe a) it's overcrowded, b) if the baby is sick, and b) if the survival of the rest is jeopardized by the babies. They also eat their deceased to conserve "food."

I hope you're not casting aspersions on my lovely, fuzzy ex-hamster Gort. God rest him.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s217/doriangrayspictures/Gort14.jpg

[Jean Marie]

You're in the bath tub on a regular day, and feel pain in your abdomen. After a while, you manage to push a totally unexpected baby out of your body. Your husband is jealous/insecure, and definitely infertile. And then you remember that rape months ago. How long does it take for this horror to flash through your head? A minute? Five? How long does it take to desperately try to figure out what to do without anyone finding out (if you pick it up, it might cry...)

Sick? Yes, certainly. I feel very sorry for her and the baby both. I also feel that what she did is deserving of punishment. It was murder. But I still feel sorry for her.
Your above scenario has nothing to do w/ this woman's situation. In that situation, there are many plausible responses, other than murder. Please.

As for this woman? I don't feel any more pity for her, than I did for the woman who drove her kids into a lake, (then cried in front of TV cameras, for days, about her missing children) or the Mom who drowned her 5 kids in a bath tub. Then, calmly picked up the phone and dialed 911. Nope.

Somewhere, in the midst of their killing, reality kicked in, long enough that they knew what they were doing. They knew enough to chase down/wrap up/smother/cover-up/dump the evidence/display the dead bodies/take a breath and call the authorities.

Prison w/ no parole. Ever.

Actually, I like the idea of solitary confinement. A lot.

Maybe, a window.

[Tiger]

I hope you're not casting aspersions on my lovely, fuzzy ex-hamster Gort. God rest him.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s217/doriangrayspictures/Gort14.jpg

Gort??!! As in, "The Day The Earth Stood Still"? Doesn't look like a Gort.

[Jean Marie]

Maybe, a Gert :)

[Tiger]

Maybe, a Gert :)

No. Gertie was from "Tom Slick"

[scarletpeaches]

Gort??!! As in, "The Day The Earth Stood Still"? Doesn't look like a Gort.

Yes, as in TDTESS.

Klaatu. Borada. Nikto.

[Tiger]

Good. Then I do grok