Can LOST be saved?

[pconsidine]

ETA: Although, wouldn't it be cool if they got off the island and then there were several more episodes about how people were adjusting? I think that a lot of them would probably be like Jack - wanting to go back even though they tried SO HARD to get off in the first place. It would be interesting.I don't know. Castaway kinda sucked after he got off the island.

[Toothpaste]

I thought the flash forward was a brilliant play on our expectations. I mean seriously, how many of you knew it was a flash forward as opposed to a flash back until the reveal? Well I didn't. Brilliantly well crafted. What it means in terms of plot, no idea, but as far as writing goes . . . most impressed.

So sad about Charlie! And shocked those girls bit the dust, only made it for half an episode!

Oh and glad Ben wasn't killed. He's totally become my fav!

[pconsidine]

I think they've pretty well established that Jack, Locke and Ben are the legs on which the story is going to stand. I think everyone else is fair game.

[FatTire]

I had a problem with them showing Walt for plausibility. In real life, three years have gone by since the series started. So, if the actor started out at say age 10, he'd be 13 now, hence the change in appearance and voice.

But....they are only supposed to have been on the island for about 3 months, right? Certainly less than a year. So logically, the boy can't age that fast. They should have gotten a different actor to play Walt.

Or....maybe it will turn out that Walt has special powers, or they gave him some kind of drug and he aged quickly????

Damon says that all will make sense soon with regards to Walt.

[ChaosTitan]

Dang.

I mean, how many times do they have to kill Mikhail before it sticks???

[PattiTheWicked]

I don't know, but I'm firing off a strongly worded letter to ABC.

"dear creators of Lost,

Although he looked nice wet, I need more shirtless Desmond, damn it.

Love,
patti"

[BottomlessCup]

What if it wasn't a flash-forward? What if it was a flashback?

Jack said, "We have to go back." Maybe they've been already there before, done all this stuff.

Sure, it'll take some narrative stretches to pull that off, but we're talking about "Lost" here.

In the flash-forward/flashback, Jack's father was alive - even though we know him to be dead. So, either he came back to life somehow or we weere watching the past.

Since - apparently - the losties are dead in at least some public sense ("they found the plane"), either one is plausible.

The show has, since the beginning, dealt heavily with memories and past mistakes. Even the monster/God/devil thing - the black smoke - seems propelled by it. It would fit thematically. (And regarding Desmond's visions. Maybe he has seen all that before - prior run-throughs of the events. Everyone has amnesia, Desmond can see through the cracks.)

It's gonna get weird either way, but I think it wasn't a flash-forward. I think it was a flashback.

[laurenem6]

I was just posting on another forum that I think the Jack scenes might be mixed - some flashbacks, some flashforwards. Other people are saying that he's talking about his dad because he's gone completely nuts with depression and this serious need to get back to the island.

[wordmonkey]

What if it wasn't a flash-forward? What if it was a flashback?
Jack said, "We have to go back." Maybe they've been already there before, done all this stuff.
Sure, it'll take some narrative stretches to pull that off, but we're talking about "Lost" here.

It's a flash forward. He didn't know Kate when they met on the island. Plus, if you watched the speical called "The Answers" the two writer/producers made it very obvious that they were gonna start showing the end of teh story and when the series had run its course all the puzzle pieces we have had, for as disjointed as they were at the time, would all slot together and make sense. I mean, the guys gave the flash-forward thing away in that thing. Of course, you only realize that when you see the season finale, but they did make it clear.

In the flash-forward/flashback, Jack's father was alive - even though we know him to be dead. So, either he came back to life somehow or we weere watching the past.

He's lost it! Jack is a drunk and addicted to drugs. He's a mess. Reading between the lines, the staff at the hospital have let him back in, probably because having survived this disaster, it's good PR for the hospital, but he isn't allowed near patients. His comment about bringing his dad down was a very personal/specific version of "over my dead body" or "when monkeys fly outta my butt." Of course, based on what WE know as viewers, Jack could well be really SEEING his dad upstares.

Since - apparently - the losties are dead in at least some public sense ("they found the plane"), either one is plausible.[/QUOTE]

And who told them this? I think it was established pretty well that this info came from a less than reliable source. If you don't wanna believe Ben that these people are the badguys and the others are actually the goodguys, when Charlie made his connection to the outside world Penny didn't know anything about a boat. That info is dubious at best.

[kristie911]

I just finally got to watch the finale. Interesting. Very, very interesting.

I hated that Sawyer killed Tom...of all the Others, Tom was my favorite. I wish the eye patch guy would frickin' stay dead...I've had it with him dying and then not dying over and over.

All I can say is...I can't wait for next season! :D

[Joe270]

Sorry, folks, but my family is about done with this. My son quit watching midseason.

I doubt we'll be waiting for the next season.

Charlie, you're gonna die.

[ChaosTitan]

Charlie, you're gonna die.

That ship kinda sailed....

[kristie911]

That ship kinda sailed....

Hey, if the eye patch guy can come back from being dead more than once, there's still hope for Charlie! :)

[laurenem6]

I thought so too, but there isn't. I read an interview with Dom Monahan (sp?), and he's not coming back.

[kristie911]

I thought so too, but there isn't. I read an interview with Dom Monahan (sp?), and he's not coming back.

Oh well...I liked Charlie but I was surprisingly unaffected by his dying. I think I was more upset that Tom was killed off. I just really liked him as an "Other".

[ChaosTitan]

Oh well...I liked Charlie but I was surprisingly unaffected by his dying.

I was sad, but wanted to be more upset by it. I love his character, love the actor. Maybe it was how he died. I think I was annoyed, because it was a somewhat senseless death. Why couldn't he have closed that hatch door from the other side? Why lock himself in there? He and Desmond could have put on the scuba gear and hauled ass into the water.

:rant:


Oh well. At least Des lived. More chances to see him wet and shirtless next year. :D

[mkcbunny]

We were thinking that Jack's "future" is probably one of several possible futures. Depending on what happens on the island, what choices are made. It isn't necessarily what will happen, but what could happen.

[laurenem6]

Yeah, I think Charlie's death was *ahem* killed because it was pointless and plus they had spend the entire last half of the season leading up to it. But I think he didn't escape because he knew he "wasn't supposed to." He came to grips with his own death because it would help save Claire and Aaron. But boo, they never really got a chance to be more of a couple because they were always fighting. That never would happen to Jack/Kate/Sawyer.

[RLB]

It's funny, 'cause I had just seen an episode of Mythbusters where they were investigating how to escape from your car if it is submerged in a river or whatever. So the whole time Charlie was drowning I was thinking "Float to the top, take a deep breath before you go under, wait for the water to fill the room and swim out the frickin' portal!"

But, alas.

[rhymegirl]

I was sad, but wanted to be more upset by it. I love his character, love the actor. Maybe it was how he died. I think I was annoyed, because it was a somewhat senseless death. Why couldn't he have closed that hatch door from the other side? Why lock himself in there? He and Desmond could have put on the scuba gear and hauled ass into the water.

Because he was told he HAD to die in order for the rest of the people to be rescued. Charlie believed Desmond's visions to be accurate. He felt that the only way for Claire and the baby to get on that helicopter was for all of Desmond's vision to come true. So he sacrificed himself.

[ChaosTitan]

Because he was told he HAD to die in order for the rest of the people to be rescued. Charlie believed Desmond's visions to be accurate. He felt that the only way for Claire and the baby to get on that helicopter was for all of Desmond's vision to come true. So he sacrificed himself.

I know he felt he had to die in order for the others to be rescued, but it still felt pointless and avoidable the way it was written. Giving up, rather than a noble sacrifice. Again, it's just how I saw it.

[Toothpaste]

I think the port hole may have been too small for him to escape through, even for our lovely hobbit.

[RLB]

Maybe, but I would have wedged myself in trying!

[Susan Breen]

I was surprised Charlie didn't write something to Claire on his hand.

[laurenem6]

The message to Des was more important. He didn't have time to write something else. And besides, he already had that list to give to Claire.

[Jean Marie]

Okay, so Jack says his father is upstairs. I'm not totally buying that he's nuts. Something's not right w/ the flash forward.

Also, remember when parachute lady says that they're really dead. No survivors were found? Hurley asked her.

Btw, that was intense when Hurley drove over them! It bugged me when Sawyer was mean to him. I like Hurley.

I agree that Charlie had come to accept his fate.

[ChaosTitan]

Also, remember when parachute lady says that they're really dead. No survivors were found? Hurley asked her.


If Naomi really was from a boat full of people worse than Ben's Others (according to Ben anyway, and we need new villians now that the Others are pretty much explained), I wouldn't take anything she said as truthful.

[rhymegirl]

I also felt Charlie closed that door so that Desmond wouldn't be trapped, too. If the place got flooded BOTH of them could have drowned.

[Jean Marie]

If Naomi really was from a boat full of people worse than Ben's Others (according to Ben anyway, and we need new villians now that the Others are pretty much explained), I wouldn't take anything she said as truthful.
Naomi's from the same boat that Jack finally got hold of. Remember when all of them reached the tower? And he, sorry, can't resist, phoned home! using Naomi's phone--right after Locke shot her? What a twit he was for doing that--grrrrrr. That was the same boat that rescued them.

Naomi, originally told Hurley that the Oceanic flight had been found and there were no survivors. That confused me.

And the other part, when Jack says that his father is upstairs. Again, I'm not entirely convinced he's nuts. Maybe he is.

[Jean Marie]

I also felt Charlie closed that door so that Desmond wouldn't be trapped, too. If the place got flooded BOTH of them could have drowned.
Absolutely! That wouldn't have made any sense, at all.

Again, Mikail...what's w/ that? Die you bastard!

[Toothpaste]

Actually I think the Others are far from explained. We know who Ben is, but who is the hot dude who looks like he is always wearing eyeliner and why doesn't he age? Why did Ben see his mother? And who the f!@# is Jacob?

[ChaosTitan]

Naomi's from the same boat that Jack finally got hold of. Remember when all of them reached the tower? And he, sorry, can't resist, phoned home! using Naomi's phone

Yep, I remember all that. I also remember Naomi playing along with the notion that Penny (Desmond's girl) sent the rescue boat. A notion that Penny herself discounted during her call in to Charlie (the "What boat?" conversation). Naomi was lying to the castaways from moment one. At least, that's what I've gathered.

--right after Locke shot her? What a twit he was for doing that--grrrrrr. That was the same boat that rescued them.

Locke stabbed her with the throwing knife because (somehow, maybe Walt's ghost told him?) he knew she was bad. That she wasn't to be trusted. They weren't supposed to leave the island on that boat. <--a notion further supported by Jack's mental breakdown in the Flash-Forward.

It's amusing to me that this show can be interpreted in so many ways, by different people. I love hearing what everyone else thinks, and the myriad theories floating around about the meaning of it all.

Too bad we won't get any answers until 2008. :cry:

[laurenem6]

I don't think Naomi's boat is going to rescue them. The way Ben talks (and I'm inclined to believe him), the people on the boat want to destroy the island and kill everyone on it. They're not getting rescued yet. They're going to have to fight first.

[Jean Marie]

Yep, I remember all that. I also remember Naomi playing along with the notion that Penny (Desmond's girl) sent the rescue boat. A notion that Penny herself discounted during her call in to Charlie (the "What boat?" conversation). Naomi was lying to the castaways from moment one. At least, that's what I've gathered.



Locke stabbed her with the throwing knife because (somehow, maybe Walt's ghost told him?) he knew she was bad. That she wasn't to be trusted. They weren't supposed to leave the island on that boat. <--a notion further supported by Jack's mental breakdown in the Flash-Forward.

It's amusing to me that this show can be interpreted in so many ways, by different people. I love hearing what everyone else thinks, and the myriad theories floating around about the meaning of it all.

Too bad we won't get any answers until 2008. :cry:
Young Walt sure grew up, fast :D And, managed to heal Locke, I'm guessing that's what happened...I don't wanna wait that long to find out! Dammit!

I don't think Naomi's boat is going to rescue them. The way Ben talks (and I'm inclined to believe him), the people on the boat want to destroy the island and kill everyone on it. They're not getting rescued yet. They're going to have to fight first.
According to the flash-forward, they're already rescued. I'm referring to Jack's flash-forward.

[Toothpaste]

Yes but I think what is going to happen is we are going to have the story of what happened on the island running parallel with what happened after and somehow the two will eventually merge in a massive revelation (or at least I hope so). So we are still going to see stuff happen on the island, but in a weird way that will become like the flash backs used to be.

Woah, trippy.

[Serenity]

Yea! I finally watched this one too, so I can participate.

I know he felt he had to die in order for the others to be rescued, but it still felt pointless and avoidable the way it was written. Giving up, rather than a noble sacrifice. Again, it's just how I saw it.

I actually saw this differnetly. Charlie knew how badly Des wanted to talk to Penny. He might ignore the chance for survival just to see her. Charlie couldn't let him do that, and probably couldn't lock the door from the outside. One of them had to stay alive to let the others know that the helicopter chick wasn't who she said she was.

The message to Des was more important. He didn't have time to write something else. And besides, he already had that list to give to Claire.

Yeah, but that list was in Des' pocket and he didn't have time (at least from what I saw) when eye-patch dude started shooting at him and he hand to make a dive for it. I have to wonder if that letter is even still intact. I'll actually be disappointed if Des gives it to Claire next season and it's perfectly legible. :tongue

Btw, that was intense when Hurley drove over them! It bugged me when Sawyer was mean to him. I like Hurley.

Actually, I thought it was kind of sweet in a harsh way. Sawyer knows that he and Juliette have no weapons, that they will most likely die. He didn't want that for Hurley, just as Charlie didn't want it for Hurley when he said he couldn't go with them either. He was just as 'mean' about it as Sawyer was, and for the same reason: neither of them wanted anything to happen to Hurley.

[ChaosTitan]

I actually saw this differnetly. Charlie knew how badly Des wanted to talk to Penny. He might ignore the chance for survival just to see her. Charlie couldn't let him do that, and probably couldn't lock the door from the outside. One of them had to stay alive to let the others know that the helicopter chick wasn't who she said she was.


Hmmmm....I never looked at it that way.

:cool:

[laurenem6]

Didn't Charlie write the letter to Claire with a Sharpie? It's probably waterproof.

[kristie911]

I hated how Sawyer was mean to Hurley too but it was definitely Sawyer's way of protecting him because he likes Hurley. He would never admit it though! I loved when Hurley showed them all and hit the guy with the van...that was a great scene!

There's a lot about the Others that I certainly don't understand. I agree with Toothpaste...there's a lot we don't know yet in regards to the Others. I love the guy that doesn't age (I've always liked him as an actor...Suddenly Susan, right?) and I can't wait to find out what the hell (and who the hell) Jacob is and why is he in charge? Why does he only talk to Ben? Why could Locke hear him and why was that so disturbing to Ben?

Yikes! I can't wait for next season! :D

[ChaosTitan]

Didn't Charlie write the letter to Claire with a Sharpie? It's probably waterproof.

Yeah, but notebook paper isn't.

[laurenem6]

Heheh, have you ever put a note in your pocket through the washing machine? It usually comes out okay... I used to do this all the time (oops). Plus, it's Lost, so we have to suspend belief a little bit. I want Claire to get the note! She deserves something after all that, right?

[Ordinary_Guy]

Re: Chah-lee escaping:
Maybe, but I would have wedged myself in trying!
My wife pointed at the port and practically shouted the same thing.

Of course, if somebody saw an interview with Dominic and he's not coming back, then we can guess the actor didn't want to be pigeonholed any more than he already was. The writers found a graceful way for Dom to make a heroic exit and problem solved.

Re: Jack's dad.
At the time, I thought it was flashback so it didn't register on my Holy Schitt! radar. It was a minute after the episode that the scene came back to whack me, so I went back and looked at it online. If you do, it hits almost 64 minutes into it. Lead in: the supervising doctor confronts Jack with the "how much have you had to drink" question. Jack responds: "You get my father down here... get him down here right now... and if I'm drunker than he is, you can fire me."

Hm.

To me, it seems Jack is lucid enough to know what's going on, so while he's screwed up, he's not hallucinating (and even if he was, seems stoic enough to know it and not share that). That, of course, is mere opinion. It's also possible he's talking in metaphor – maybe his dad's last post mortem act was to be the benefactor of the Dr. Christian Shephard In Memoriam Fund (but everybody knows just how screwed up his dad was, too).
...Or, more likely considering it's LOST: we just saw either a hiccup in the space/time continuum or there's a fatherly "manifestation" off the island. Maybe that's why Jack is drinking so much.

Which brings me to:
Walt/Christian Shepherd/Kate's Horse/...Ben's mom.
I think we heard in that first hour (from the horses' mouths) that the island was manifesting this stuff based on the character's memories. Given that Sawyer saw Kate's horse (and it seemed quite physical), what's the possibility that the island manifested a crashed plane full of dead passengers to throw rescues off the scent and keep the folk there. According to the off-the-island flash forward, that didn't work, so we know the island's power is significant but limited.

Here's something related to chew on: the "luck/fate" off the island (ie: the Jobian tribulations of Hurley) may be real, but entirely manufactured by the telekinetic powers based on the island.

...which is somehow related to:
"Dr. Richard Alpert" (Nestor Carbonell's character).
Okay, this rico-suave guy first appears in one of Juliet's flashbacks as a recruitment officer... then later we see him, same age, when Ben is a kid! Based on his very balanced intro to Ben, on the surface, this guy seems pretty cool. OTOH, he does advocate Locke knocking off his father. We know, based on the agelessness, that this dude is something manifest. But he's definitely not all-knowing. And if he needs other folk to do the dirty work, probably not all-powerful either. He could be one possible interface to at least one facet of the island's personality... but he/it can be duped by Ben just like anybody else.

Does the island have a split personality? Are there multiple beings/sources? How can the smoke not be able to go over the sonic fence? Is the smoke opposed to other manifestations? Where do they all come from? Ack! I once was found, but now I'm LOST...

[dragonjax]

Walt/Christian Shepherd/Kate's Horse/...Ben's mom.
I think we heard in that first hour (from the horses' mouths) that the island was manifesting this stuff based on the character's memories. Given that Sawyer saw Kate's horse (and it seemed quite physical), what's the possibility that the island manifested a crashed plane full of dead passengers to throw rescues off the scent and keep the folk there. According to the off-the-island flash forward, that didn't work, so we know the island's power is significant but limited.

Here's something related to chew on: the "luck/fate" off the island (ie: the Jobian tribulations of Hurley) may be real, but entirely manufactured by the telekinetic powers based on the island.

...which is somehow related to:
"Dr. Richard Alpert" (Nestor Carbonell's character).
Okay, this rico-suave guy first appears in one of Juliet's flashbacks as a recruitment officer... then later we see him, same age, when Ben is a kid! Based on his very balanced intro to Ben, on the surface, this guy seems pretty cool. OTOH, he does advocate Locke knocking off his father. We know, based on the agelessness, that this dude is something manifest. But he's definitely not all-knowing. And if he needs other folk to do the dirty work, probably not all-powerful either. He could be one possible interface to at least one facet of the island's personality... but he/it can be duped by Ben just like anybody else.

Okay, first, I didn't connect the Juliette recruiter with Richard on the island. DUDE. How cool!

Second, I LOVE the "manifested an airplane full of dead passengers" theory. But why only SOME of them? The folks in the front of the plane all died (except the pilot, and the Guardian ate him). And why have the Tailies separate for, what, 46 days before hooking up with the Losties?

And how does Penny's father's corporation tie into all this? Does her father own the company behind the Darma Initiative?

[awatkins]

When does the new season start? I'm ready!

[kristie911]

I'm thinking it doesn't start up until January. But I'm not positive.

[awatkins]

Thanks. :)

[clockwork]

It'll be late January, maybe even February. We're now into the redsigned, "three more years to go with 16 episodes per season," thing (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117964371.html?categoryid=14&cs=1&p=0). The show will run right through without breaks or repeats like 24 but obviously will be off air longer once the season wraps.

[MattW]

Lame.

There's crud on on Wed (LOST night), and 3 conflicts on Thursday.