Condensed PublishAmerica Thread II

[DaveKuzminski]

Uh, write and tell them that a chain is interested? ;)

[NancyMehl]

Dave,

Didn't have anything in writing. Just verbal.

I think HapiSofi has it exactly right. PA can't handle real business deals - they're just not set up for it. It was never their plan - and never will be.

Wish people would realize it.

Nancy

[HapiSofi]

Selling into the mass-market wire racks takes serious professional expertise, and people who do it make real money. You can't hire them at entry level using a classified ad in your local newspaper.

[rlfulgham]

I've read some but not all of this line of posts. I've read some but not all of the thousands of other posts online in ref this subject. So one blunt question: will it negatively impact my future dealings with agents and publishers that I have a book printed by PublicAmerica? Should I not mention PA when listing credits? Really, my self-published Lulu Press book is getting more respect and attention -- not to mention higher sales.

[James D Macdonald]

Your PA book doesn't count as a publishing credit. But ... your current work will stand on its own.

My opinion: Won't help; why bother.

Often the experience writers gain by finishing one book makes their next book better. If you're going to be publishable, you'll improve. So a subsequent book (provided you have learned, rather than just repeating previous mistakes) is likely to be better written than an earlier work.

[DeePower]

I went to file a Better Business Bureau complaint against PA and found that there are two listings. The second is interesting in that the Bureau says that NO complaints have been processed against Publish America LLLP. The first says the complaints have been resolved.

The first listing says the companyis not a BBB member, the second listing says the company is a BBB member.

Why two listings?

The first listing is below:
Original Business
Start Date: &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp
9/1/1999
Principal: &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Willem Meiners, President
Local Phone Number: &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp (240) 529-1031
Fax Number: &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp (301) 631-9073
Email Address:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp info@publishamerica.com
Membership Status:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp NO
TOB Classification:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Publishers-Book

The information in this report has either been provided by the company, or has been compiled by the Bureau from other sources.

Nature of Business

This company offers book publishing services.

Customer Experience

Based on BBB files, this company has a satisfactory record with the Bureau. Any complaints processed by the Bureau in its three-year reporting period have been resolved. The number and type of complaints are not unusual for a company in this industry.

To have a Satisfactory Record with the Bureau, a company must be in business for at least 12 months, properly and promptly address matters referred to it by the Bureau, and be free from an unusual volume or pattern of complaints and law enforcement action involving its marketplace conduct. In addition, the Bureau must have a clear understanding of the company's business and no concerns about its industry.

Additional Addresses

PO Box 151, Frederick, MD 21705.

Report as of: 9/27/2004

*************************
*************************

The second is below
Publish America LLLP

General Information

Street Address: &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp P O Box 151
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Frederick, MD 21701

Telephone Number: &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp (240) 529-1031

Web Address: &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp www.publishamerica.com

Membership Status: &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Yes

Type of Company: &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp LLLP

BBB Business Classification: &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Publishers-Books & Magazines

Original Business Started in: &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Dec-1999

Principal: &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Ms Miranda Prather Exec Director

Customer Contact: &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Ms Miranda Prather Exec Director

The information in this report has either been provided by the company, or has been compiled by the Bureau from other sources. This report is not to be used for sales or promotional purposes.

BBB Membership
This company is a member of this Better Business Bureau. This means it supports the Bureau's services to the public and meets our membership standards.

Program Participation
This company participates in the Bureau's Membership Identification Program. This company has agreed to use special complaint handling procedures, including mediation and arbitration, if necessary, to resolve disputes.

BBB Customer Experience Record
Based on BBB files, this company has a satisfactory record with the Bureau. The Bureau has processed no customer complaints on this company in its three-year reporting period.

[ProandCon]

Dee,

It could be that PA reverted into a limited liability partnership to protect the big houses the PA owners bought on the backs of PA authors. They would have had to join the BBB as the new named company with information under the old name most likely still in BBB's data base. There would be no reason for Meiners to pay fees twice to maintain the BBB membership.

If sued, the only thing that can be taken are the assets of PA and not the personal assets of the principal owners of PA.

The possible name change sounds like a tactical move many companies do to protect the assets of principal owners.

Not being around PA as long as some people, BBB probably types into their computer the name they are sent in a complaint.

It is important to use the new(?) legal name being posted on PA's website to send complaints to the BBB. PA, by law in most states, has to advertise their name as the type business entity they are presently operating under, ie.. corporation, limited liability corporation, etc. If a company does not have an entity designation behind their name, they are usually a partnership where the owners are personally liable for damages.

[DaveKuzminski]

Very likely, ProandCon, but they use LLLP (3 Ls) and I've yet to encounter that abbreviation anywhere except in connection with PA.

Makes me wonder if they had their company name edited by their staff.

Something else I've been wondering about is just how many non-sellers PA can absorb before it flounders. By this I mean, what if a thousand authors sent in books that PA accepted and published and not one author ordered any books? There is a base price that PA has to pay on any books it publishes whether those sell or not. After all, PA has no way of knowing beforehand concerning the outcome for any particular book it publishes. In fact, it's my guess that forms a basis for selecting subsequent books from authors they've published. No sales, no second book permitted in the pipeline.

[XThe NavigatorX]

lllp is fairly new but increasingly common in the business world. Limited Liability Limited Partnership.

[DaveKuzminski]

Hey, if they ever come up with LLLPLM, I'm certain that PA would qualify for that as well. ;)

[aka eraser]

I'm just bumping this thread to improve its visibility.

This, along with the "PA woes" thread are the only two threads where PA-related posts are allowed on this board.

[James D Macdonald]

I beg you to remember the <a href="http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessage?topicID=190.topic" target="_new">"49 copies only"</a> thread, full of much crunchy HapiSofi goodness....

[aka eraser]

Ah yes. Thank you Jim. Had a niggling feeling there was another lurking around but then convinced myself it was in the Take It Outside board.

[DeePower]

According to amazon.com, as of November 8 there were 6910 titles released by PublishAmerica. As of September first there were 5915. PublishAmerica has released nearly 1000 titles in about 60 days.

There were about 40 working days in that time period. PublishAmerica has said they have 25 editors out of about 60 some employees. These editors do the line by line copyediting and review potential manuscripts for acquisition at least that is what one is led to believe from statements made by Publish America.

Each of the 25 editors would have had to edit one book a day to release 1000 titles in that time period in addition to reading 5 manuscripts a day (5000 manuscripts for potential acquisitions at the 80% rejection rate PublishAmerica claims.)

That's a killer workload.

Unless of course PublishAmerica doesn't really edit or read the submissions.

Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com (http://www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com)

[ncq13]

Dee,
Judging from the lack of editing my proofs received, I can say with conviction that PA does not appear to edit according to industry standards.

[Sher2]

Judging from the lack of editing my proofs received, I can say with conviction that PA does not appear to edit according to industry standards.


I can attest to that. Not only did they fail to catch the typos in my ms, they also contributed their own errors. They for some inexplicable reason left off letters from words, such as changing "too late" to "too l" and changing "exact" to "e act." I was never privy to whether they made the requested corrections after the so-called 48-hour proofs, so God only knows how it ended up.

[James D Macdonald]

What's with the other PA thread being locked?

[Zazopolis]

A merciful death, perhaps.

[ProandCon]

Interesting

There must be some wheels turning somewhere.

[ProandCon]

When we, as authors, submitted our list for possible pre-orders for our books (see Joyce I'm trying to be professional here)it was noted that we should not include names of the media in that list...That list was to be sent to PA separately...The implied thought was that PA would take care of that list in promoting our books..(at least that is what I assumed)...As far as I know, not one of those individuals on the media list has been contacted or given a copy of my book....Now, since we are all responsible for our own marketing and promotion plan to sell our books, it seems to me that there should be a built in system at PA to help in that regard...I know they issue a guideline book for that purpose written by PA authors but that is not what I think is needed...There needs to be a contact office that issues press releases, is referenced by Book Sellers and sets up hot line responses to authors needs...(now don't tell me the Support Group team does that)...I'm talking about a unit that facilitates marketing of PA books...Some authors like Amo offer help in these areas...It is obvious that PA tried a marketing idea by posting an ad in The New York Times Magazine section touting some hot authors and their books(spare me..that is not an efficient way to sell PA books and is very limited in its outreach to us poor boys looking for entree into Barnes and Noble, Borders, Dalton et al.) We need a live body and a physical office to deal with snippy managers of large booksellers who are no doubt taking the payoff from major publishers...Yes, I know, a lot depends on our playing nice with these people but I agree with a post here that said PA has some terrific writers...While I appreciate having a fine book on the shelf and thank PA for that privilege, I am tired of being like a just hired insurance salesman who sells to his family and friends and that becomes the end of the line...The relatives and friends dry up and books sales tank...What resources would it take to install a marketing strategist at PA with an office and a phone?...Pull a talented Support Group individual off the line or some PA Monitor who is bored out of his/her skin reading our innocuous posts to man that office...People like that can do wonders in opening doors to those high handed managers who stack the books on booksellers' shelves...Let me hear your thoughts or will this idea fall off the edge, too!!...Sky

Zaz, isn't that your buddy?

And the guy just a few months ago was so full of energy when he got his personal fifty copies. He would be one of the quickest to lead the PA cheer.

[Zazopolis]

Oh yeah, Sky and I go way back to me belittling anything he would post to laughing at his idealistic agenda.
It's funny to watch the crumble now. Like an empty gymnasium with one lone cheerleader who just figured out everybody already left.

[ProandCon]

"It's funny to watch the crumble now. Like an empty gymnasium with one lone cheerleader who just figured out everybody already left."

Well, he's not alone. He has HB to hold his hand and offer him a handkerchief.

[Zazopolis]

Oh yeah, Marcus, famous for lines such as, "I'm not trying to write the great American novel. I just want to be funny."

"Yeah, everybody funny. Now you funny, too." -- George Thorogood

[Ed Williams 3]

..Inquiring minds want to know...

[Risseybug]

If you'll notice, there are now ads at the top of this page. You might also be getting pop-ups too.
We (some on the Novels forum) suspect that this board has reverted to a less expensive model. I think that there are some limitations to it.

The "Uncle Jim" thread in novels was also locked but has since been unlocked. All it takes, I think, is the moderator to unlock it, and it'll be back in binness.

[vstrauss]

I re-opened the long PA thread. Some weird stuff is going on with the boards today--I'd guess it has to do with the new ads and popups.

- Victoria

[XThe NavigatorX]

errrr I posted to the long thread, and then it locked itself again.

I think the EZsupporter ran out for the forum.

[ProandCon]

The Article that NavX is referencing on the long thread appears to be an article that Publisher's Weekly picked up off the PRWeb wire service.

If Becca's several hundred Anti-Pa'ers were to send out a free PRWeb press release on the same day, the messages will reach thousands of news and magazine organizations. You may garner some major interest and some major stories about PA's antics.

The press releases need to be sent on the same day for major impact. In addition, PRWeb press releases show up in google searches and usually appear on the first page of a search.

You can send a press release for free at the link below.

www.prweb.com (http://www.prweb.com)

[James D Macdonald]

Wow. Someone actually picks stuff up off PRWeb?

What's the URL of the original release?

[winniemitzandme]

No ProandCon, the article in the PW was sent in by Dee and Becca, at least I believe it was. Dee posted the first 200 words under another thread here, but it was NOT from that PRweb thingy.

Violet:hat

[DeePower]

We contacted PW directly. And not just me. Not just Rebecca. There seems to be a number of authors published by PublishAmerica who are contacting members of the media. Each of us individually.

Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com (http://www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com)

[XThe NavigatorX]

That article wasn't taken from PR web. It was written by Steven Zeitchik, a staff writer for Publishers Weekly.

[ProandCon]

Correction noted:

I wasn't going to sign up to read it.

The free press release will still put a lot of info out on the net about PA for people researching writing info.

Keywords have to be used for the search engine crawlers to find the article.

No expense way to spread the word about PA.

Actually how many people who get snared in PA's trap read Publisher's Weekly.

You never know who might pick up the story if editors see such a massive campaign coming across the wires at once.

That would definitely contradict PA's contention that the majority of people are happy

[SimonSays]

P&C

My guess is that somewhere around 0% of those who are aware of and check out PW get snared in PA's net. But as you said at least there's more out there now for those who search for info on PA.

I'm not quite sure there is "a massive campaign" the snippet that Dee posted mentioned that about a dozen PA authors had contacted PW - a teeny tiny minortiy of PA's authors.

[ProandCon]

SimonSays,

If I'm not mistaken, Becca posted that several hundred PA authors had responded to her request for letters.

If true, that is quite a few press release possibilities.

It's not just searching for PA.

If the correct key words are used, the web crawlers will pull up all info right along with the PA article.

If they type in publisher, book, writer beware, etc.,

The person to help typically will not even know about PA. PublishAmerica's name will definitely have to be included.

Now, we know people won't forget to include their name.

[BeckEaston]

What's with the lock????

[BeckEaston]

The article mentioned was written as one of the 1,500 media producers, journalists, editors or more that were contacted in one day. It is a journalist with Publisher's Weekley. He wrote it based on the evidence sent. There will be more tomorrow. Be sure to read. If anyone wants the entire article, email me. Have fun, it's time to explode with truth!

Dee;

It still fascinates me that PA thinks you're doing all this alone. Interesting at best.

[lizziepants]

Let's see how long my post lasts on the (private) author's message board at PA alerting everyone to the PW article.

[James D Macdonald]

Let's see how long my post lasts on the (private) author's message board at PA....

Heck, let's see how long you last.

-----------------------

What the heck? Now HTML doesn't work here either?

[lizziepants]

Indeed, cake or death it seems.

Let them eat cake, I'll still be doing the "signed contract with real publisher" dance.

[DaveKuzminski]

From what I've seen and experienced so far, PA appears to want others to think that any complaints or criticism is at most from only a single disgruntled individual.

[ncq13]

From what I've seen and experienced so far, PA appears to want others to think that any complaints or criticism is at most from only a single disgruntled individual.

Ahhh, yes. According to PA's response to my BBB complaint, I must have been influenced by a "small group of scare and hate mongerers who use the internet to spread lies, falsehoods and half-truths about our company and our authors, and who have recently resolved to intensify their efforts."
(This is a word for word quote btw. Makes you want to bust out the red pen doesn't it?)

The entire letter is an interesting read.

[DaveKuzminski]

My, my, but my resume is becoming rich in job descriptions courtesy of PA. They've branded me as a pornographer, a plagiarist, a weak writer, a terrorist, and now a hate mongerer. Do you think maybe I can find work with all those job skills should I need a new job? ;)

[ncq13]

I would be happy to fax you a copy, so that you can add it to your records. You can always use it like you would a reference letter.

[James D Macdonald]

Read it quick before it goes away:

Books-A-Million Again (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/6661.htm)

[lizziepants]

hahha.. my post lasted exactly 31 minutes. long enough for the referred to send me an email and let me know someone'd replied, clicked on the link -- The post you have requested has been removed or deleted.

comedy.

[Dhewco]

I feel sorry for the author who, enraged that the store didn't carry her book, yelled that it was carried in all the large bookstores(or something similar). I wonder if her book was truly down at BN or whether she was trying to 'guilt' BAM into ordering it for their shelves.


David

[James D Macdonald]

Don't give yourself airs, Dave. The "hate mongerers [sic]" are more likely Dee Power and Beck Easton.

(Personal for Beck: You might like the heroine of The Price of the Stars, young Beka. Used copies start at $0.01 over at Amazon.)

Meanwhile, some answers to questions that PublishAmerica authors have posed, and some general comments, in that thread (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/6661.htm) at PA:

First, Carl Baxter notices: In my local BAM there is a sizeable section dedicated to Regional Authors. Having already been privileged to gaze into their computer to see that my book could only be ordered by credit card and delivered directly to the purchaser's home and not the store, I went to the Regional Author Section and discovered several POD self-published books. In one case, 18 books by a single author, all autographed, published in 2002.

Which neatly explains why PA books aren't stocked -- they just take up shelf space because if they don't sell they can't be returned. Note also, when he says "my book could only be ordered by credit card and delivered directly to the purchaser's home" that's a reaction to the neat trick that some PA authors tried (and even recommended to one another on the PA boards), of going into stores and ordering copies of their book using fake names, then never picking them up in order to get a copy shelved. Didn't take the bookstores long to figure that out, and come up with a countermeasure. His entire comment is interesting and worth reading.

Then Joyce Rapier discovers that the books on the tables at the front of the chain bookstores aren't there by happy chance -- the publishers paid for placement. Yes, Joyce, true. That's some of the extra promotion that all authors don't get. (Remember, too, that they can't possibly put all the books on tables by the door.)

PA and other bottom-feeders use the fact that not all authors get the same promotion by publishers to imply that no authors get any promotion.

This isn't true. All authors get a baseline promotion. Publishers don't make money on books sitting in warehouses -- they have to get 'em out onto shelves, and to that end they: a) field a salesforce, b) publish a catalog, c) send review copies well in advance to major reviewers, and d) advertise to the trade.

Note too what Joyce says:

Here's another little tidbit of information I got from a woman whose daughter has been published by a (big name publisher S & S) who got a 5 figure deal for her first book...HER FIRST BOOK!

Got that, guys? First book, major publisher, decent advance. It can happen. It does happen. Work on your craft, and only send your book to publishers whose books you can find in physical bookstores.

J. M. Steele asks, So is that why it's hard for us new authors to get book stores to shelve our books? Somethng has to change for us. Maybe this shouldn't bother me so much. But how do we get a foot in the door?

The answer is: Write a book that lots of people want to read. (Not just "are willing to read," but "want to read.") Send it to a traditional publisher in the traditional way (this may include a traditional agent on the path). Every major publisher in America is looking for good new authors. Authors shouldn't be running around trying to get bookstores to shelve their books -- that's the publisher's job.

Joyce again: As far as the rest of the b/m stores (shelves), I know from personal experience...having owned a grocery store in the 80's (wouldn't do that again for all the tea in China)...the retailer pays for the rest of the merchandise and hopes to make a profit from those sales.

Joyce has a good head on her shoulders, and some relevant experience, but ... bookstores aren't grocery stores. In bookstores, the bookseller doesn't pay for the stock. The books are bought on credit, and the ones that don't sell are returned for credit on the next shipment. Only if a book passes by the cash register will a bookstore handle money.

Then Skyrocket chimes in with a suggestion that PublishAmerica start a marketing arm at their headquarters: While I appreciate having a fine book on the shelf and thank PA for that privilege, I am tired of being like a just hired insurance salesman who sells to his family and friends and that becomes the end of the line...The relatives and friends dry up and books sales tank...What resources would it take to install a marketing strategist at PA with an office and a phone?

Good suggestion, Sky. I wonder how long your password will continue working?

It's been interesting watching his progress from hopeful and eager pre-published author to weary and experienced PA author.

Phil Dolan arrives, one of the PA Big Spenders from the first NYT ad, to say: My book "A Handsome Guy" (WWII, Nonfiction) appeared in one of PA's New York Times' ads but it didn't generate any sales because there was no way to identify the content. If PA had just added the words "WWII-Nonfiction" under the book's picture then people who are interested in war books may have checked the book online and some sales might have occured.

Remember that was what we said right here (in the More PA Woes (http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessageRange?topicID=209.t opic&start=2361&stop=2380) thread) when that ad came out. The second ad was worse: It didn't include prices or ISBNs either.

Paulapb asks: I just went into our local Books-a-Million and asked for my book. They told me that my book was no longer available! I didn't tell them who I was...What's up with that crap???

It's this, Paula -- Ingram is switching over to the One Source system, and until they're done (March 2005) your book will be listed as zero on hand, zero on order, zero on backorder. In other words, not available. This is happening to PoD books only. And PublishAmerica (no matter how often they deny it) is a PoD publisher.

Sky continues to make sense:

I am not talking about us dropping the ball on our promotion efforts..We continue to do our thing as Joyce is doing and JM Steele and Paula are doing to get the word out...But we need a marketing strategist in house with a phone number who will answer those goofy questions about "non-returnable" and "POD" and the like and "how much" will your book cost...and stuff like that among other things that marketers do especially contacting media people...

That is, he's asking PA to start acting like a publisher. Good luck, Sky.

Joyce returns with this: I checked with Waldenbooks about carrying my 3rd book and this is what "she" said. "You need to fill out this form and send it to corporate, along with a copy of your book for them to review. If they so choose, they will decide to carry it. Oh, and by the way, your book, Whisper My Name is NOT listed with Ingrams or in our database. There is NO ISBN listed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

We've seen this before, with WaldenBooks -- they're not doing the One Source (http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessageRange?topicID=209.t opic&start=2321&stop=2340) thing at all.

But, Joyce, I can help you out. You do indeed have an ISBN (1413739474). Your stats at Ingram are:
On hand: 0
On order:0
On backorder: 0
This weeks unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sold this year: 0
Total sold last year: 0

Tim Smith asks: Now riddle me this: why does my book appear on the BAMM website for a higher price than the one PA decided on, when Books-a-million touts itself as being the low-price leader? Even members of their "discount" club only get two bucks off the cover, which brings it back down to the suggeted retail price.

That's because of PA's non-standard short discount through distributors, Tim. In order to make the same profit on a PA book as they do on a book from a traditional publisher, BAM has to price them higher. Sorry about that.

Tanutoo (Erica Adams) pops up to say: In a seperate incident, I called BAM in Dothan, about 150 miles from me, and acted like I was a customer asking about my book. You WON'T believe what that manager told me. He said "Well, we CAN order "Innocent Heart" but you would have to put it on your credit card and it will take a couple of weeks to get it or you can come inside the store and see what other titles we carry."

Acted like a customer? That's why BAM (and other bookstores) put those policies in place.

In furious rage I said "Are you kidding! That book is carried by all the major book stores. I can't believe you don't have it on your shelf! That's okay sir, I'll just go to Barnes and Noble down the street and buy it from them."

And at that very moment the bookstore manager knew he had the author on the phone.

But it wasn't quite true, was it, Erica? Unless you got down on your knees and begged, and maybe supplied the copies yourself, the B&N down the street doesn't stock your book either, nor do any of the major bookstores except in the same sense that BAM carries it -- you can special order it.

Ah, well, PA authors. I wish you the best. Remember to get each others' email addresses, so after your passwords stop working on the PA boards you can keep in touch with your friends.

[Sher2]

I wonder if her book was truly down at BN or whether she was trying to 'guilt' BAM into ordering it for their shelves.

I got the sense that it was not at the B&N. Of course, it wouldn't be unless the author had placed it there herself. Alas, attempted intimidation of bookstore employees seems to be a tactic unique to PA.

[James D Macdonald]

Fast on the trigger! Less than two hours, guys. Good job!

This post from Shellann, 11/18/2004, 09:25:57 After doing much Internet research by going to webcrawler.com and typing in keywords such as PA, I had seen many reasons why bookstores wont carry the books from PA. Though I still made my choice to go with them. What I had understood was that book stores wont carry vanity books. Reason I gathered is because they are not edited by a professional editor. I guess when it is left up to the author to do everything themselves, they don't put as much professional credit behind our work. I don't know why though, some of your most talented people have to start somewhere. I read where the book stores want to have someone edit the books from PA and similar publishers because some are not marketable and riddled with error and flaws. I would personally think PA would look through the books to be sure they are not written in some twisted form. lol. So I don't totally buy the idea that PA don't look through these books at all. That is high risk on their part. lol. So that is what I have heard via Internet. And that is why book stores wont carry our books without being reviewed. It don't really bother me none though. But I would think PA would come up with a way to advertise more to get more sales, that is more money in their pocket if they did. Might not be a bad business move for PA to open up their own store fronts across America to sell our books in. It makes nothing but total sense to me. is now missing from that thread (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/6661.htm). I wonder if Shelann's missing too?

I can just see it now ... ... the Unedited Slush Bookstores. Want King? Want Clancy? Want Grisham? Want Roberts? Want Steele? Want Rowling? Go somewhere else! We carry books you've never heard of by people you don't know!

PA would never open their own bookstores. You don't see real publishers opening their own bookstores either. But that isn't why this post got zapped. The author of the post suggested that folks use a search engine to look for PA -- and that a seach would show the reasons why PA books don't appear in bookstores.

PublishAmerica can't let their s/u/c/k/e/r/s/ authors find that out.

[Sher2]

PublishAmerica can't let their s/u/c/k/e/r/s/ authors find that out.


Well, let us hope that anyone thinking of signing with PA will come here first, even if the board is acting wonky today.

[vstrauss]

I unlocked the long PA thread again.

- Victoria

[ProandCon]

Mr. Macdonald wrote:

"PublishAmerica can't let their s/u/c/k/e/r/s/ authors find that out."

I'm very surprised at your comments. Usually you demonstrate a kindness above the fray.

Maybe you didn't have your Wheaties this morning or missed kicking the dog.

Why the dog when I can kick a PA author he sang as he cut on the computer to go PA fishing.

As I direct PA authors over here to this site, it doesn't help for them to be called suckers. The majority of PA authors felt they were dealing with a legit publisher and their decision to go with PA weighs on them everyday regardless of the authors who say they are past the feeling of a tremendous loss.

Shame on you!

We all wish we could be published by a traditional publisher like you were. I've seen you toot your horn several times about being better than most authors. In a way, your bragging is well deserved but don't lose the respect you have rightfully earned.

Maybe some day (us suckers) we will be so fortunate to be published by a real traditional publisher.

P&C

[Whachawant]

Well that's interesting!... I asked a question and the long P.A. thread locked up AGAIN. Is some one capable of setting it up so that they can monitor every post.? Or is it this site and its sponsors ... I'm not impressed with all the pop-ups. Luckily I have two blockers working overtime.

[James D Macdonald]

The whole board is getting strange -- I don't know what it is with the popups. The popups are annoying, especially when you consider that every one of them I've seen has been for an obvious scam.

Threads that were thumbtacked to the top are drifting down again, and all the long threads are getting locked. Anytime a long thread is unlocked, if you add a post it locks again.

HTML in the message bodies doesn't appear to be an option any more, either.

-----------------------

ProandCon, the technique I was using is called 'writing from PA InfoCenter's viewpoint.' It's clear to me that PA considers their authors to be suckers. Why else would they lie so blatantly? Why else would they treat their authors so disrespectfully?

My main role here isn't supporting PA authors, BTW -- it's warning would-be, possible, potential PA authors about what could be a poor decision.

I welcome PA authors. I like a good number of them personally. But PA authors aren't my audience.

[Sher2]

"PublishAmerica can't let their s/u/c/k/e/r/s/ authors find that out."

I'm very surprised at your comments. Usually you demonstrate a kindness above the fray.

The truth is the truth. Calling it something else doesn't make it smell any better. PA considers its authors suckers. Or marks, if you prefer. I'm one, and it doesn't offend me to hear it. Lord knows, I apply the appellation to myself often enough.

[DaveKuzminski]

I didn't think of this until now, but I think it's worth trying.

Those with websites that express their displeasure with PublishAmerica might want to add the same list of metanames that PA uses so that your site will compete directly with PA for placement in any search engines. By doing so, you might force PA to respond to you on equal terms because they won't want other writers shunning them because the writers had the foresight to check out your message first.

[Zazopolis]

Dear author,

Again, there is healthy growth news to share with you. Together with your peers at PublishAmerica, you now form a force of more than ten thousand writers! Last month, our 10,000th author signed a book contract with PublishAmerica.

The basis of this continued success story is authors such as yourself. It is your enthusiasm, your creativity, your glow, and your energy that spawn the drive in others to want to be like you. It is the thousands of newspaper interviews and book reviews, the hundreds of thousands of words of mouth that your books have sparked. You have enabled us to send out more than one million book announcements to people of all walks of life, and each day we are selling thousands of books. That is the incredible PublishAmerica story that you and your fellow PA authors have brought forth.

Needless to say, such numbers affect the size of our staff enormously. We have gone through enormous growth in the past year, to the point where we needed to relocate to a considerably larger facility. Currently we are finalizing the moving of our entire staff into a big and beautiful four-story historical building in the heart of our hometown, where we have more than double the office space that we had. You may expect to see photos of our new environment on our website soon!

Reason to celebrate? We think so, and therefore we are discounting all of our titles for ten thousand school libraries around the country. And as always, when we offer such special deals to vendors or libraries, we want to include our own authors as well.

It is good to remind you that one of the other reasons of PublishAmerica's success is that no author is under any obligation, pressure or requirement to ever purchase their own books, at any time, in any way. We are a traditional publisher. We don't want our authors' money, we want their books. Therefore, authors who do wish to obtain copies of their own book, do so because they choose to.

So, to those of you who fall in that category, with the upcoming holiday season in mind, we offer the following special deal:

authors who need
between 25-50 books: 40 pct discount
between 51-100 books: 45 pct discount
between 101-200 books: 50 pct discount
201 or more books: 55 pct discount

This offer expires November 30, full-color books are excluded. Orders by phone only, at 301-695-1707.

Thank you, and have a happy Thanksgiving.

[Sher2]

Dear author,

Again, there is healthy growth news to share with you. Together with your peers at PublishAmerica, you now form a force of more than ten thousand writers! Last month, our 10,000th author signed a book contract with PublishAmerica.

Damn. Again? I haven't gotten it yet; maybe I'd better check my spam folder. Or better yet, maybe I'll just leave it there. 10,000 authors signed in five years -- but they're not an author mill. Perish the thought.

[SimonSays]

Jim -

Does your browser have a pop-up blocker?

If you're on a Mac, Safari does. Works like a charm

Simon

[DaveKuzminski]

Hey, what happened to the other 2,000 happy authors PublishAmerica used to claim in its Support claims and emails to everyone? Is that how many are unhappy and banned?

Also, what happened to the million books sold? Now it's a million announcements? What next, pixel counting just to get big numbers of how many were sent out?

[Zazopolis]

Personally, I like this disclaimer the best:


It is good to remind you that one of the other reasons of PublishAmerica's success is that no author is under any obligation, pressure or requirement to ever purchase their own books, at any time, in any way. We are a traditional publisher. We don't want our authors' money, we want their books. Therefore, authors who do wish to obtain copies of their own book, do so because they choose to.

That's good time fun there ending in a preposition, naturally.

[DeePower]

Dave said: "Hey, what happened to the other 2,000 happy authors PublishAmerica used to claim..."

They ain't happy no more.

Dee

[Medievalist]

I noticed two "press releases" from Publish America that were, shall we say, strikingly similar. I then Googled the phrases "Miranda Prather" and "book will quickly resonate with an audience," the latter because it's unusually vile.

Lots of <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q="miranda prather" "book will quickly resonate with an audience"&btnG=Search&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official">hits</a>, and lots of different authors.

[DaveKuzminski]

I quit counting after the fourth page and a click on the show all instances. ;)

Do you think I'll get one of PA's letters telling me that I shouldn't speak about them in that tone?

[TuppGal]

I loved this one:
Local author signs with Publish America
Special to the Times


THOMASVILLE — PublishAmerica is proud to announce that is has acquired the rights to publish "Swivel Hips, Pitiful, and Ugly Mug", by Thomasville’s Bonnie Gibson. Executive Director Miranda Prather expressed confidence today that Ms. Gibson’s book will quickly resonate with an audience. "Swivel Hips, Pitiful, and Ugly Mug" is a well written and crafted work of contemporary non-fiction that fits our specialty like a glove. PublishAmerica primarily publishes works by, for or about people who face a challenge in life, and who overcome it by turning stumbling blocks into stepping stones. We believe that Ms. Gibson is a promising talent in this field."

Most of PublishAmerica’s books are written by new and previously undiscovered talent, such as Thomasville’s newly discovered author. A traditional publishing company, PublishAmerica pays advances and royalties while offering a distinct alternative to authors who would most likely be overlooked by larger, more commercial publishers simply due to their lack of experience in the industry. More details about book and author will soon appear at www. publishamerica.com When released, the book will be available through all local bookstores as a trade paperback.

For more information, please contact Miranda Prather at pratherm@publishamerica.com. You may also contact Bonnie Gibson at jon_bon@bellsouth.net.


---------

sorta sounds like a "the author should bow down and kiss the ground that we did this for them as no one else would"....

[DaveKuzminski]

How much does anyone want to bet that the above promotion isn't a boilerplate or template that they can just insert the names and places and send off?

It's terrible that a publishing company executive can't manage to say something original about each individual product they put out.

[James D Macdonald]

It's terrible that a publishing company executive can't manage to say something original about each individual product they put out.

Nah, Dave -- then they'd have to read the books they put out.

[DaveKuzminski]

Oh, darn, that's right. I forgot that they don't read their own books. No faith in their own editing, I suppose. ;)

[aka eraser]

Another reason for not reading their own books is that their lips are too darned tired from skimming their own message boards looking for truths to delete.

[HapiSofi]

I've been collecting and comparing versions. Sometimes you get portions of the Prather press release embedded in a larger, more interesting article, but what I looked for were versions where the story was picked up straight. What I conclude from this study is that if at any point PA's authors filled in an online questionnaire about themselves, these press releases could easily be computer-generated.

There are two basic variants: first-time author, and second-and-subsequent-time author. Within those categories there are minor textual variations, which I'm inclined to attribute to the copy editors of the publications in which the stories appeared.

(If one of the joys of this world is to do good in secret and have it independently found out, here's an instance: I salute you, nameless copy editor of the West Orange Times, for taking the time to clean up something as trivial and unrewarding as a PublishAmerica press release.)

The headlines vary a great deal, so they must have been rewritten by the papers. Their basic theme is that PA has signed up a local author. Interestingly, Miranda Prather's title also varies, which can't be the work of the copy editors.

My reconstruction follows. Database fields are in square brackets. Variations appearing only in press releases for first novels are in boldface. Variations which appear in press releases for second and subsequent titles are underlined.<blockquote>PublishAmerica is proud to announce that it has acquired the rights to publish [title], by [location]'s newly discovered author, [firstname] [lastname]. [Editorial/Executive] Director Miranda Prather expressed confidence today that [honorific] [lastname]'s second book will quickly resonate with an audience.

"We were already familiar with [honorific][lastname]'s work from [gendered pronoun] first book, [previousbooktitle]. [title] is a well written and crafted work of contemporary [genre] that fits our specialty like a glove. PublishAmerica primarily publishes works by, for or about people who face a challenge in life and who overcome it by turning stumbling blocks into stepping stones. We believe that [honorific][lastname] is a promising talent an accomplished talent in this field."

Most of PublishAmerica’s books are written by new and previously undiscovered talent, such as [local area]’s newly two-time discovered author. A traditional publishing company, PublishAmerica pays advances and royalties while offering a distinct alternative to authors who would most likely be overlooked by larger, more commercial publishers simply due to their lack of experience in the industry.

More details about book and author will soon appear at www. publishamerica.com When released, the book will be available through all local bookstores as a trade paperback.

For more information, please contact Miranda Prather at pratherm@publishamerica.com. You may also contact [firstname lastname] at [author e-mail].</blockquote>There are very few novels that press release can't be said to fit; but by the same token, the press release doesn't actually say anything about the book that's supposedly being promoted. The line about "fits our specialty like a glove" is particularly meaningless.

Talk about publishers who make their authors feel like dirt. There's not a single description in that press release that's specific to the book, and over half of it is given over to talking about PublishAmerica itself.

There's a different formula and far more elaborate formula for books in their Independence program, by the way. Those look like they were written by someone who was working from an existing model, but was actually writing a tailored press release.

Finally, since this reconstructed press release doesn't fit personal memoirs, religious meditations, short stories, or a number of other categories, I think we can assume there are examples of other PA press release templates out there on the web.

Addendum: Two further observations. One is that most examples of this press release appear in only one or two places, most commonly in the author's local paper. This may make the author feel good, for a while at least, but it's of very little use in selling books. The second observation is that these releases are sent out shortly after the contract is signed, long before the book is published. This is completely useless for selling books.

There may be no single clearer illustration of PublishAmerica's real practices and priorities than these faked-up press releases.

[reph]

When announcing Ned Newbie's second PA book, does PA still call Ned a newly discovered author?

[HapiSofi]

Ah, thank you. They do not. I'll correct that. The coding's going to be a mess.

[bikrpreacher]

I posted a message on the neverending thread...I knew resonate was mentioned around here somewhere.
My press release for the second book was in the paper today.
The same as you all are saying, glad I knew this before it came out, I might have actually been impressed. LOL

In my press release they did talk about the first and second book, and they did tell what the book, (second), was about.

Chris

[bikrpreacher]

Oh! Oh! Hold on a sec...seems I am an "accomplished talent in this field."

No, still not impressed.

[HapiSofi]

<blockquote><blockquote><blockquote>Local man revealed to be author

PublishAmerica is proud to announce that it has acquired the rights to publish The Unstrung Harp, by Mortshire author C. F. Earbrass. Editorial Director Miranda Prather expressed confidence today that Mr. Earbrass's book will quickly resonate with an audience.

"We were already familiar with Mr. Earbrass's work from his previous book, More Chains Than Clank. The Unstrung Harp is a well written and crafted work of contemporary fiction that fits our specialty like a glove. PublishAmerica primarily publishes works by, for or about people who face a challenge in life and who overcome it by turning stumbling blocks into stepping stones. We believe that Mr. Earbrass is an accomplished talent in this field."

Most of PublishAmerica’s books are written by new and previously undiscovered talent, such as Mortshire’s two-time discovered author. A traditional publishing company, PublishAmerica pays advances and royalties while offering a distinct alternative to authors who would most likely be overlooked by larger, more commercial publishers simply due to their lack of experience in the industry.

More details about book and author will soon appear at www. publishamerica.com When released, the book will be available through all local bookstores as a trade paperback.

For more information, please contact Miranda Prather at pratherm@publishamerica.com. You may also contact C. F. Earbrass at cfearbrass@hobbiesodd.com.</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>

[bikrpreacher]

"an accomplished talent in this field."
Yes, standing all alone in this great big "field" of PA...good grief.

[Medievalist]

It's trivial to use MSWord's mail merge, Excel, and a little AppleScript, to generate the printed release, mailing labels, and a bulk email.

I doubt that PA would be clued in enough to do that, but the basic merge function in MSWord would do exactly what they want, using Excel instead of a database.

Dead easy.

Edited because for some of us metathesis is a way of life.

[James D Macdonald]

And with 69 new books on this week's New Releases page, they'd better be using a mailmerge program. Else the young lady who's answering the phones wouldn't have time to do the press releases too.

[DaveKuzminski]

Only 69 new books this week? Gasp! Did they lay off some of their editors?

[bikrpreacher]

I don't know if you're interested, but my release at the bottom just says, "when released, the book will be available as a trade paperback." ...nothing about being available in bookstores.

[TuppGal]

I don't have a press release
*sniff*
they don't even love me enough for a canned PR it seems, lol.

Tina

[Sher2]

they don't even love me enough for a canned PR it seems, lol.

Don't feel bad. I didn't get one, either. If PA sent anything to my local paper, it must have gone into the round file.

[bikrpreacher]

You two can have mine, LOL.

Thought you might enjoy hearing this. A long time ago, someone on the PA board put his letter in a post and I copied it into my word program. I changed the parts so it would be mine...I thought I threw it away, but this is exactly as saved and changed long ago:( you'll notice though that this one says "book stores" and mine for the second book doesn't.

Jasper, Georgia----PublishAmerica is proud to announce that it has acquired the rights to publish "Child of an Alcoholic to Daughter of the King" by Chris Bartholomew. Executive Director Miranda Prather expressed confidence today that Ms. Bartholomew's book will quickly resonate with an audience. "Child of an Alcoholic to Daughter of the King" is a well written and crafted work of contemporary non-fiction that fits our specialty like a glove. PublishAmerica primarily publishes works by, for or about people who face a challenge in life, and who overcome it by turning stumbling blocks into stepping stones. We believe that Ms. Bartholomew is a promising talent in this field."
Most of PublishAmerica's books are written by new and previously undiscovered talent, such as Jasper's newly discovered author. A traditional publishing company, PublishAmerica pays advances and royalties while offering a distinct alternative to authors who would most likely be overlooked by larger, more commercial publishers simply due to their lack of experience in the industry. More details about book and author will soon appear at www.publishamerica.com. When released, the book will be available through all local bookstores as a trade paperback.
For more information, please contact Miranda Prather at Pratherm@publishamerica.com. You may also contact Chris Bartholomew at (omitted)

[literary lola]

"book will quickly resonate with an audience."

Does anyone find this sentence particularly odd? Resonate with AN audience? What audience is that? Miranda makes this sound as if she's thinking, "I have no clue as to WHAT audience, but AN audience is as good as anything I can say." It's just plain idiotic.

Another thing; I've never seen a press release where the poor author had to share the limelight so their grandstanding publisher could get their advertisement in. I mean, what's the purpose of this "press release" anyway? I think we all know. Traditional publisher my crazy Aunt Irma...

[Medievalist]

Literary Lola wrote:

<blockquote>
"book will quickly resonate with an audience."

Does anyone find this sentence particularly odd?
</blockquote>

Well, yes; that's what made me pick the wretched thing to Google. It's horrible on so many levels, so extraordinarily awful, that it caught my eye.

First, it's essentially based on a cliché, one that is derived from a barely functional metaphor. Do a Google search on "resonate with an audience" and you'll see it's the kind of meaningless filler that shows a paucity of thought. The intention of the writer (pace Wimsatt and Beardsley) is to imply that an audience will respond emotionally to the book. Unfortunately, if you read closely, and think about the what each word is doing, and what they mean, it's astonishingly meaningless. The phrase "resonate with an audience" is essentially <em>meaningless</em>.

Its idiocy is surpassed by this delightful bit:

". . . work of contemporary fiction that fits our speciality like a glove"

Gah. First, this press release is ostensibly about the book, and secondarily, about the author. Who <em>cares</em> about what fits the publisher's "speciality," or why they need to glove it. And, yes, "like a glove" is beyond being a cliché. Google it, I dare you.

When a publisher's own writing is this dreadful, and careless, revelatory of an absence of thought, care and attention, writers really don't want them to have <em>anything</em> to do with their words.

[James D Macdonald]

Miranda likes those phrases a lot:

<BLOCKQUOTE>[i]I just finished reading and viewing the materials for Nightmare's Echo. I like the idea of overcoming such great odds. It fits nicely with my house's speciality. Have you found a publisher yet for this unique work? If not and if you are interested, please let me know, so I can see that you receive all of the information you need from us. Best wishes.
Miranda N. Prather Editorial Director, PublishAmerica[i]</BLOCKQUOTE>

[literary lola]

"It fits nicely with my house's speciality."

PA actually has a specialty? Wonder what it is considering they offer contracts to people who write 30 pages and turn it into a full length novel. I'm just laughing myself silly over that one. What a ship of fools.

I also love the brash segue to advertising and promoting PA. The whole tone of this "promo" is, "Forget about the author, let's get on to why we're really here." Shameful.

[reph]

"book will quickly resonate with an audience."

Does anyone find this sentence particularly odd?

Yes, but consider the alternative: "book will quickly resonate with [complete list of author's friends and relatives]."

[vstrauss]

"PublishAmerica...specializes in books about, or by, people who face and overcome hardships and obstacles in life (both fictional and nonfictional), and who turn stumbling blocks into stepping stones."

That statement is here: www.publishamerica.com/aboutus.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/aboutus.htm)

This has always been PA's stated "specialty", even back when it was Erica House, a print vanity publisher. It was an implied part of the justification for asking people to pay a big whacking fee to publish their books, per a 1999 response to a writer who queried Erica House: "We are willing to work with risk takers only, and we expect our authors to be like that. Safe players need not apply."

Stumbling blocks into stepping stones, indeed!

- Victoria

[reph]

"PublishAmerica...specializes in books about, or by, people who face and overcome hardships and obstacles in life (both fictional and nonfictional), and who turn stumbling blocks into stepping stones."

I took that as a manipulative attempt to appeal to writers (using the term loosely here: nonprofessionals with manuscripts) who feel disadvantaged or victimized generally and will therefore jump at PA's theme "We help the little people whom the big publishers ignore."

[bikrpreacher]

"PublishAmerica...specializes in books about, or by, people who face and overcome hardships and obstacles in life (both fictional and nonfictional), and who turn stumbling blocks into stepping stones."

I take this to appeal to the writers who write about themselves. I read somewhere that a lot of first time writers write about their lives, what PA is interested in are first time writers...writers that don't know about publishing.

[HapiSofi]

I'd say it gives maximum opportunity for writers to read themselves into the description. If it said anything more, or anything more specific, there'd be books that wouldn't match it, which would tip off their authors.

It's your basic fairy gold: it doesn't stand up to stress, close examination, or the touch of cold iron; but as long as all it has to do is sit there and be believed in, it'll do just fine.

A lot of things work that way.

[tjosban]

Okay, I read this just flipping through the PA stuff:

Miranda likes those phrases a lot:


I just finished reading and viewing the materials for Nightmare's Echo. I like the idea of overcoming such great odds. It fits nicely with my house's speciality. Have you found a publisher yet for this unique work? If not and if you are interested, please let me know, so I can see that you receive all of the information you need from us. Best wishes.
Miranda N. Prather Editorial Director, PublishAmerica

The signature line read something like this in my mind:

Miranda N. Prather Preditorial Director, PublishAmerica

Does that say anything about how skewed my views are?

(Edited for clarity on my part)

[FM St George]

actually, it's sadder than that - first time writers who are writing about *themselves*...

it seems that everyone and their dog has a tale of woe about growing up - either child abuse, drug abuse or some sort of physical ailment - and while it's *HORRIBLE* for anyone to have that sort of life, it's become fashionable to write it up and toss it out into the bookstores as an example/tell-all tale for people to read.

now, while this is fine for some famous people, the average schmuck doesn't really care or want to care about Jane/John Doe who grew up in a trailer park with two right hands and a pair of extra eyes on their toes. Usually.

a LOT of PA books fall into this catagory, it seems - life stories of how *I OVERCAME ADVERSITY AND TRIUMPHED!*, yatta yatta yatta. And while I in no way want to disparage the tough times these people have gone through, it may just not be interesting reading. Sorry.

BUT it's a good sell to family and friends as well as a guarantee dead weight for PA in a few years - they don't have to worry about printing out a stack for the bookstores (ref: the ones who can't get them delivered in time for signings) since no one outside the small town or trailerpark really cares.

which is sad, to make a vast understatement.

:(

[Joyce Harvell]

sounds just like mine.:rollin

And to think, I thought I was special. Oh well, that's the way the old ball bounces. If the prices don't come down on PA books I won't order any more. That's about the biggest beef I have with them. (That is if they get my royalty check right)

Bonnie

[PixelFish]

All this reminds me of the scene in Foundation when Salvor Hardin does an analysis of the speeches of Anacreon's diplomat, and tells the Encyclopedists that it all boils down to nothing. The diplomat could talk for days and not promise a thing.

Such is the talent of Miranda Prather.

[The Real Joe Shmoe]

www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/7504.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/7504.htm)

[aka eraser]

Closing this because it belongs on one of the PA threads.

[akaA1A]

Thought this might be of interest for PA authors concerned with the lack of distributorship...

www.bizjournals.com/nashv...ily46.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/stories/2005/01/31/daily46.html)

[bikrpreacher]

Interesting, so is this the end to books not being sent out? I remember that there was a problem with our books not being listed by ingram (mine's not), and Pa infocenter came on and said that after they were done doing whatever they were doing, we'd be listed again. Do you know if this is going to help anything?
Chris

[lucyishome]

I saw on the PA mb one author posted something about death by Ebay. Anyway he has a really weird way of trying to promote his book. I am thinking Ebay will not keep his listing for very long. If you want to check it out the item number on ebay is 5555061529&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp or you can get the link to his ebay listing on the PA mb under original authors .

Anne:rolleyes

[FM St George]

I saw that.

let's just say that I don't expect it to be up long - eBay tends to frown on offering assassination services in auction.

bad promotion idea?

oh... yeah...

:rolleyes

[bkreviewer]

I just notified them. Ugh--to say the very least.

[XThe NavigatorX]

That poor guy's book is $29.95

[FM St George]

and he's got a second one "coming out".

ugh.

wonder if PA wants to put him up as a poster child of how to do good promotion...

:p

[Sher2]

Ugh--to say the very least.

I saw it, and "Ugh!" sums up my thoughts pretty well. If he thinks this is some innovative new marketing ploy he's happened upon, he's sadly missed the mark in my opinion. I thought it was just ... sick.

Sherry

[CaoPaux]

That lowers "clueless" to a whole new level. :\

[Whachawant]

Unless I'm doing something wrong, the item number didn't take me anywhere.
I guess whatever it was, was pretty ugly.

So...I'll put a virtual YUCK!:eek

[XThe NavigatorX]

It's probably been taken down. It was an ebay auction to have your spouse shot. He included a link to his website for more info, which was a page about his book.

[Whachawant]

It was an ebay auction to have your spouse shot.

---"...hmmm...did he offer a discount when it comes to quantity ?........ like 25% off if mother-in-law is included..?..."

[reph]

bump

[JennaGlatzer]

I keep trying to tell everyone that all the old posts really *are* here, but no one believes me. :Shrug:

[Savannah Blue]

I keep trying to tell everyone that all the old posts really *are* here, but no one believes me. :Shrug:

I'll believe you, Jenna.

[skylarburris]

Veingloree, of course it's reasonable to expect writers to put an unsuccessful first novel onto the closet shelf and go on with their writing. Hemingway threw his first novel overboard during an Atlantic crossing.

If only he hadn't stopped at the first.


-----

"Great Moments in Literature: Hemingway, while trout fishing, caught a carp and decided not to write about it."

[DaveKuzminski]

What old posts? All I see is an escapee from a bunny farm. ;) (Wink, wink, nudge, nudge)

[Sher2]

What old posts? All I see is an escapee from a bunny farm. ;) (Wink, wink, nudge, nudge)

Oh, yeah, I meant to ask you about that, Jenna. Is that snazzy little bunny number something you picked up in Vegas? Too, too cute! ;)

[bikrpreacher]

Dave, I know someone whos manuscript was rejected, and my son who had just graduated edited it for her and she got it accepted, does that count? Do you want to hear from her. Let me know and I'll tell her to write. I think that most manuscripts that PA rejects, they tell the people it would benefit to have it edited, then they re-submit and get accepted. Have you ever found anyone who was rejected for a first manuscript?

[DaveKuzminski]

Sure, I'd like to hear from that author as well. Every bit of documentation gives us a more complete picture of what's going on at PA.


So far, there have been a handful of responses from writers who were rejected. However, based upon similar postings at other sites, PA's rejections lag far behind many small publishers and small ezines for the number of documented rejections.

[bikrpreacher]

Just sent her an email, you should hear something from her soon I would think.
She has just found out about PA, from me recently.
You know, I think I might have argued on another forum with you right when I signed with PA...LOL oh brother! Can't believe I was ever so foolish at my age! *sad smile*

[DaveKuzminski]

That's all right. We're past that now.

[Vipersniper]

:gone: I am gone as far as being a happy camper at PA. I just got a email from a fellow author who is quite good at what she writes. Now PA lost the shipment of her books to Amazon.com where she has a ranking as do I. When I called them to speak with my so called rep, they told me that they did not have a phone in the building where she was. So I just asked out of curiosity this question. If you have an email don't you have to have a phone line in order to send emails. Like was I born yesterday? It took them months to get the books to my mentor and now they lost a shipment? Excuses and smoke screens. Here is the kicker when I asked one bright child about the street address. She gave me a Post Office box number. Duh they all live in a post office box? Well maybe they do and that explains the flat out confusion and inability to pay royalties. By the way I am really thankful that they did reject my second book and it had more to do with some questions that I raised about their practices than the content of the book. So I will look around at who this site suggests to find a real publisher at least one that does not live in the post office box.

[Vipersniper]

:box: I read excerpts from that book and went straight across the street to my neighbor who also read parts of that book. I gave the lowest review ever given to an author because of the way it was written. The neighbor by the way is a Secret Service Agent it was really written well but the scenario was done with real peoples names. In fact it sort of scared me the content of this book. I have to wonder why PA published it? And if you check with the gosh the program that does documentaries on crime a publishing company was sued in court for the actions taken by a man that killed his wife and child along with the nurse after reading Hit Man. So I would not be surprised if this went the same route. First ammendment rights fly out the window if you write stuff like this. City Confidential first did the story and then it was on another channel not the book but the case where the publisher was sued.

[James D. Macdonald]

Speaking of that kind of thing ... The Soldier of Fortune Murders (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0440214017), (great book). Soldier of Fortune magazine got sued for running classified ads for hitmen. (Convicted, then overturned on appeal.)

As to why PublishAmerica published the book? Someone sent it to them. You didn't think they read the submissions or cared about them, did you?

[Vipersniper]

:Hammer: Yes someone did send it too them unfortunately and that is why I found it on fanstory.com another promotion for them. You know it does make you cringe when you think about it. Apparently the person who read it had to be living in that Post Office box. My husband sells on Ebay and they do have strict rules. At least they did but if someone were to complain about it they would have to remove it. For example if you sell a Rolex watch you must guarantee it or else if you say it does not come with a warranty they will yank it. One author and jewelry maker had bible verses attached to her site and they made her stop posting that. Silly because it did not bother me per se however if this book is there a complaint should be lodged. I cannot say enough good things about this site. If either myself or my husband saw this before we went to a publisher then we would not have signed with who we did. But my neighbor is keeping up with things and sort of pushed things along with the FTC. Thanks James and Ed plus the others you deserve a lot of credit for this site and the information that you give.

[tolbert]

I was really bummed today when I read the articles about PA. My manuscript was accepted several months ago and I am reviewing the Adobe file I just received and it is disasterous. Punctuation added and deleted in the strangest places...typos that were not in my manuscript...and so much more.

I just completed a second book and was considering a contract with PA when I received the "ugly" manuscript and my stomach turned. The correspondence and contract they sent was identical to my first one and that helped raise the red flag.

The bad news is they have my first book (good or bad) for seven years.

The good news is they did not get my second book and I would rather it is never published than to be published poorly.

Back to the drawing board.

[tolbert]

I recently received an e mail from PA stating that they have now signed 10,000 authors!

Unfortunately I am among the ranks. Two submissions and two acceptances but I will not sign the second offer.

[Vipersniper]

:crazy: Good for you Tolbert because my suggestion is to run. I wish that I had on my first book.

[Eussie]

Where did the delete button go? Help!

[The New Yorker]

I've heard people say they are trying to get out of PublishAmerica contracts.
Well, they just nixed mine and returned my rights to me on the basis of Par. 25 (supposed author hindrance).
I didn't hinder anything. I received the author copies with the letter encouraging me to send any suggestions for corrections within 10 days. So I did. I told them the quality and layout looked poor. Sent them a wish list of corrections I wanted implemented if possible, such as larger fonts, wider gutter, what have you. I also brought up the myth of brick-and-mortar bookstores, and the fact that it was beginning to feel to me like a do-it-yourself-publishing-co.
Well, I was a bit New York sarcastic, hell, I thought it was pretty funny.
Apparently PA does not have a sense of humor, because they sent me a 2-line letter telling me my contract is nixed and my rights have been returned to me. It was the notorious Janet Morissey - I've heard her name mentioned by other unhappy authors.
Perhaps I'm fortunate that they nixed me because the more I read about them the more they seemed like a really lousy place to publish with. It is obvious that what they did was illegal - there was no grounds to end the contract, and I could possibly sue. But either way - if anyone really wants out, it looks like I inadvertantly found a way.
NYC

[Patricia]

I've heard people say they are trying to get out of PublishAmerica contracts.
Well, they just nixed mine and returned my rights to me on the basis of Par. 25 (supposed author hindrance).
NYC

Way to go! You won't be sorry! You need to post this report on the "never-ending-PA thread." It would be a great encouragement to some over there.

Thanks for sharing. . .

[MacAllister]

Actually--since Victoria isn't here, and Jenna has asked that we don't start new PA threads--I'm going to just port this over to the NeverEnding thread (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=524&page=579&pp=25). :)

cheers!

[Woodworth]

I've been looking at the threads here for about thirty minutes. I'm a new PA author who is, thus far, satisfied with PA. Now that my book is out, I was first worried about the price. But, I walked into a Books-A-Million and looked in the humor books. My book was in the mid-upper range of pricing for similar sized books.

I contacted the local Barnes & Noble about a book signing, gave them a little info about the book, and I've got a signing next week. The manager said that they don't stock as many POD books due to the no return policy, but it all depends on the book. He said he'd have copies of mine available.

I guess we are all going to have good or bad experiences for a variety of different reasons. Maybe my bad ones are yet to come. For now, I'm going to enjoy the ride!

Adam Woodworth
"The Rantings of a 33 Year-Old Father of Two"

[Ed Williams]

...I think if you'll go to "The Neverending PA Thread" and post this there, you'll get the answer to your question.

Welcome!

[Trapped in amber]

Welcome Woodworth!

Here is a link to a brief thread which details some of the major problems authors have experienced with Publish America.

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10211

I'm glad you feel things are going well for you at the moment.

[Richard]

Not wanting to rehash too much of the thread, but make sure those books are actually in and ready to sell when the day rolls round

[zizban]

Good luck, keep us updated!

[James D. Macdonald]

Enjoy the ride, and work on your next book.

If I may be so bold as to ask, what are your goals with this book and your writing in general?

[akaa1a]

Hi Adam....Welcome!:hi:

Your book sounds really funny...sort of a "been there, done that" kind of chuckle for all us parents out there! Good luck with it.

My biggest piece of advice to you (that I learned the hard way) is that no matter how wonderful we think our end product is and no matter what fantastic marketing angles we come up with, the rug is fairly slippery beneath us.

Bookstore arrangements can be great! Just be sure that you understand, not only the bookstore's promises and commitments...but those of your publisher. They both have different agendas...trust me!

Also, try and get the books there well in advance. I know from my experience that a sizeable number of my books that were used in a similar way came in with smeared print and covers that had conveyor belt marks on them. UGH!

Luckily, I had them well in advance...but it still took PA a month to get new books to me.

I hope beyond all hope that PA authors can have good experiences...just be sure to cover your bases so there are no horrible surprises like so many of us have enjoyed!

Knowledge is power! Be smart!:Lecture:

[ashlee111]

I just signed a contract with Publish America today. I also sent a copy of my manuscript to the Library of Congress. What was a good day, turned out to be very depressing. Especially after reading all these posts about Publish America. I now feel, like I wrote all three hundred and forty one pages, for nothing! If someone knows of a good publisher, who does not want me to pay them, please let me know. I feel I wasted my time, writing my book, which I thought was good. Thank you, ashlee111

[veinglory]

Well, that book is with them now. I suggest you promote it as best you can and place the next one with somebody better.

[ashlee111]

I guess I have to search again. And this time,I will do my home work, when it comes to publishers.

[Sheryl Nantus]

head on over to the PA Never-Ending thread and ask there - you may still be able to break the contract if you haven't handed over your baby. I can't say, but better to ask there and get a more informed response asap!

[MadScientistMatt]

Welcome, Ashlee. I am sorry to hear about what happened with you first book. It may be possible to get your book rights back.

As for finding a publisher, there are several good methods. Remember that a publisher is not in the business of printing books (and frequently does not have its own printing press), but is in the business of putting together and selling books. So to find a good publisher, look for a batch of books for sale like what you want to write, and see who published them. If the publisher is making its money by selling books to the general publich through bookstores, it's not a scam.

The problem is getting your book into one of them once you find such a publisher. Publishers do not advertise for manuscripts because just being a publisher will draw manuscripts like a magnet. So you will need to play by their submission rules. These may look intimidating at first. But "No unsoliceted manuscripts" does not mean that they will not consider your book; it just means to send them a querry letter first asking if they are interested. And many of the big publishing houses say "No unagented manuscripts," so to get there, you will need to find an agent - one who works on commission, as one that charges fees probably will not be helpful.

Good luck.

[James D. Macdonald]

If someone knows of a good publisher, who does not want me to pay them, please let me know.

Go to your local bookstore. See all those books on the shelves? Not one single one of those publishers asked the author for any money.

Find books similar to yours. Write down the names of the publishers. You'll find their addresses on the copyright page: Write to them (with an SASE) asking for their guidelines.

Follow those guidelines to the letter.

While you're at the bookstore, pick up a copy of the current Writer's Market.

============

Don't bother promoting your PublishAmerica book. No matter how much or how little you promote it, it won't make any difference. And whatever you do, Don't Buy Any Copies Yourself!

[zizban]

Don't promote it! Consider it a lesson learned and move on. And don't buy any copies of your book. I always wondered what PA would do with an author who did zero for their book.

[James D. Macdonald]

I always wondered what PA would do with an author who did zero for their book.

According to Larry Clopper there are a thousand PA authors who have sold zero copies. That's what happens, I suppose.

Remember the PublishAmerica motto: If you don't buy your book -- no one will.

[ashlee111]

I do not know what I am going to do now. Maybe just take my two "free" Books and weasel my way out. By the way, does PA really spy on their Authors, while they are on line?

[Mac H.]

I feel I wasted my time, writing my book, which I thought was good.

Ashlee - You thought you book was good? What has happened to change your mind?

Just because you were snared by Publish America ? As people keep pointing out - Publish America are just as happy to 'publish' a good book as a bad one.

The fact that Publish America published your book has **NOTHING** to do with the quality of it. Don't take their acceptance as some signal that it's bad !

While you look at getting out of your contract, remember to do something much more important.

Keep writing !

Mac.

[Aconite]

I do not know what I am going to do now. Maybe just take my two "free" Books and weasel my way out. By the way, does PA really spy on their Authors, while they are on line?

Ashlee, what you do now is start writing your next book while you make up your mind. DO NOT start thinking that your book must be bad because PA accepted it. DO NOT start thinking that you are a bad writer because you got caught up with PA.

Go over to The Neverending PublishAmerica Thread and start reading and posting there. (It's how this board keeps all the PA information in one place.) You'll find *lots* of information.

As for PA spying on their authors online, well, that's discussed more in the Neverending thread, but the short form is that, yes, it seems they do. Authors who post negative things about PA, or even who question its policies or post on certain boards that PA regards as "the enemies" (this is one of those boards) find themselves banned from posting on the PA boards.

Go on over to the Neverending thread now. You'll be amazed.

[victoriastrauss]

Closing this now to prevent PA thread proliferation.

- Victoria