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View Full Version : This really pisses me off. . .


Akuma
03-13-2007, 06:36 AM
From time to time, I'll hear about it again and it just pisses me off so much.

What the hell is wrong with my generation?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/19/homeless.attacks/index.html

robeiae
03-13-2007, 06:45 AM
It's not your generation. This kind of thing has been going on forever. It just seems more prevalent because of our increased access to information/news.

icerose
03-13-2007, 09:33 AM
It's tragic that human life holds so little value among some people.

Tiger
03-13-2007, 10:00 AM
It's not your generation. This kind of thing has been going on forever.

Yah... Random attacks on people--including the homeless--were an important part of "A Clockwork Orange." Especially in the movie version.

Little Alex was supposed to be what? 15?

What's it going to be then, eh?

skelly
03-13-2007, 04:07 PM
I had a thread about that somewhere ... when it died out it had become a debate about violence in video games. Every time I read that article it makes my blood boil. And meaning absolutely no offense to you Robeiae, but I'm not so sure that the increased access to news isn't partly to blame for what I believe to be an increase in this kind of crap.

Shadow_Ferret
03-13-2007, 07:11 PM
It's not your generation. This kind of thing has been going on forever. It just seems more prevalent because of our increased access to information/news.
Sorry, but I don't remember hanging out with my friends and going down to the overpass and kicking the snot out of bums.

I do believe there is an increase in rage and "man's inhumanity to man" with each successive generation.

beezle
03-13-2007, 07:14 PM
Sorry, but I don't remember hanging out with my friends and going down to the overpass and kicking the snot out of bums.

I do believe there is an increase in rage and "man's inhumanity to man" with each successive generation.

I don't know, those Romans and Aztecs could be pretty bloodthirsty in their pasttimes.

William Haskins
03-13-2007, 07:15 PM
I do believe there is an increase in rage and "man's inhumanity to man" with each successive generation.

data?

Shadow_Ferret
03-13-2007, 07:16 PM
data?
I did say, "I believe," didn't I?

Even the elderly are getting cranky. An old lady gave me the finger the other night. Used to be the eldery were respectable.

William Haskins
03-13-2007, 07:17 PM
then i'm forced to believe you have your head up the ass of your own time and ignore the reality of history.

Shadow_Ferret
03-13-2007, 07:19 PM
then i'm forced to believe you have your head up the ass of your own time and ignore the reality of history.
That's probably true. I'm only going by my own perspective and experience. Both of which are probably distorted by the passage of time.

Go have a smoke, William, you seem cranky.

William Haskins
03-13-2007, 07:20 PM
will do. thanks.

Shadow_Ferret
03-13-2007, 07:21 PM
Any time. Menthol or regular?

Mae
03-13-2007, 07:23 PM
It's tragic that human life holds so little value among some people.

I second that.

Rolling Thunder
03-13-2007, 07:49 PM
Violence sells news. Plenty of teens out there with clean noses and good intentions.

robeiae
03-13-2007, 07:54 PM
Sorry, but I don't remember hanging out with my friends and going down to the overpass and kicking the snot out of bums.Neither do I. And neither do the vast majority of people, including those in the current generation. But that doesn't mean such things (and similar despicable activities) weren't taking place in the past.

Consider these things:

1) There are more people in the world with every new generation
2) People live longer in countries like the U.S.
3) Social services programs and infrastructure allow marginalized people, like the homeless, to actually survive at much higher rates and in places with a much higher population density.

I do believe there is an increase in rage and "man's inhumanity to man" with each successive generation.I don't. People in the distant and recent past were quite capable of being as inhumane to their fellows as anyone alive today.

Shadow_Ferret
03-13-2007, 08:07 PM
I don't recall saying these crimes didn't exist back then, I merely said there has been an increase. It seems natural for there to be a statistical increase in violent crimes as the population itself increases.

Although I did compare 1965 to 2005 in some statistics and in NYC the statistics are very close. There was a huge increase during the 70s and 80s, but it's declined almost back to 1965 numbers.

However in Oklahoma, I believe it was, aggravated assault for instance has increased 10 fold whereas murder had similar numbers.

I don't. People in the distant and recent past were quite capable of being as inhumane to their fellows as anyone alive today.

I'm actually going by my own recollections and I can't ever recall road rage or inconsiderate driving in the 60s to the same extent I'm experiencing it now. Granted I was a little kid sitting in the back seat.

William Haskins
03-13-2007, 08:10 PM
dip back a little further to, say, kristallnacht or jack the ripper or the vikings... or prior centuries of total war where conquest was solely a criminal enterprise, where towns were razed and looted and every man, woman and child was either murdered, raped or enslaved.

Celia Cyanide
03-13-2007, 08:31 PM
Ihrcke told police that killing "the bum" reminded him of playing a violent video game, a police report shows.

He probably said that to avoid blame.

And meaning absolutely no offense to you Robeiae, but I'm not so sure that the increased access to news isn't partly to blame for what I believe to be an increase in this kind of crap.

Well, we wouldn't know, would we? Rob's point was that it isn't happening more often. It's just reported more often.

It reminds me of a story in our neighborhood. Some 9 year old brats were mocking a homeless man and throwing rocks at him. They were afraid of getting in trouble, so they accused the man of kidnapping them. He was arrested, and a 13 year old boy who saw everything called the police and told the truth. He was homeless, and it was his words against these two little kids. The poor guy didn't have anything in his corner. Good thing there was an honest child watching.

skelly
03-13-2007, 09:12 PM
Well, we wouldn't know, would we? Rob's point was that it isn't happening more often. It's just reported more often.
And my point is that I believe the increased media exposure is in fact leading to an increase in such activity (not counting all the barbarian hordes that Haskins is worried about). Thanks for helping me clarify that point.

Shadow_Ferret
03-13-2007, 09:25 PM
dip back a little further to, say, kristallnacht or jack the ripper or the vikings... or prior centuries of total war where conquest was solely a criminal enterprise, where towns were razed and looted and every man, woman and child was either murdered, raped or enslaved.
Jack the Ripper wasn't much of a serial killer by today's standards. Only 5 dead.

And I guess I have to remember to be explicit when I make claims here. I wasn't talking the history of violence. Certainly even things like the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition did things that would make a little teen wilding seem tame in comparison. I was just talking our own limited history during the latter half of the 20th Century.

Oh, but then we're still taking into account the KKK and their treament of blacks.

Nevermind, I'm in a no-win situation here.

William Haskins
03-13-2007, 09:27 PM
the human propensity for violence is a continuum...

SpookyWriter
03-13-2007, 09:30 PM
or a conundrum?

skelly
03-13-2007, 09:34 PM
Certainly even things like the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition did things that would make a little teen wilding seem tame in comparison.
I don't know about that. At least those people had a reason for their cruelty, even if it was a stupid one. Wide-spread sadistic violence for no gain other than the perverse pleasure of having committed the act seems to be a more recent development.

SpookyWriter
03-13-2007, 09:37 PM
I don't know about that. At least those people had a reason for their cruelty, even if it was a stupid one. Wide-spread sadistic violence for no gain other than the perverse pleasure of having committed the act seems to be a more recent development.Is there ever a valid reason for cruelty toward another human?

WildScribe
03-13-2007, 09:42 PM
They had a front, that doesn't mean that their reason overrode their bloodthirstiness, they just made it look acceptable. Sorta.

skelly
03-13-2007, 09:47 PM
Is there ever a valid reason for cruelty toward another human?
No. That's the tragedy of it, then or now. At least for those of us who still feel bad about such things as opposed to dismissing them out of hand as "business as usual."

Akuma
03-14-2007, 10:14 AM
Ah, well, it's all a bit crazy.

I'm not surprised at the human cruelty, I'm really not, but it seems more offensive to me if cruelty is there for the sake of cruelty, rather than provoked by some stupid religious or political fervor.

I'm not even sure if there's any rage in these incidents; is my generation just being desensitized?

I mean, we can find anything in a matter of minutes--videos of sex, snuff, you name it--so wouldn't the increase of deplorable behavior actually increase, not just due to accessibility to news stories about these kinda things?

Assuming we're talking about America, it seems, a nice a country as it is, we're heading to the point where we might be raising sociopaths.

trumancoyote
03-14-2007, 10:36 AM
That's a bunch of crap. Come to China, or go to Japan --places where stuff like that (penetration, in Japan; everything, in China) is censored-- and see how many whackjobs you can find lurking in the corners. Just because we're more open about it in America doesn't mean there's an abundance of it; I, for one, think it's more healthy: people in countries like this have no sanitized method of release and would therefore, I believe, be more likely to indulge in the acts of violence/sexual violence/whathaveyou themselves.

I don't have any data to back that up, however.

robeiae
03-14-2007, 04:15 PM
No. That's the tragedy of it, then or now. At least for those of us who still feel bad about such things as opposed to dismissing them out of hand as "business as usual."I don't see anyone here dismissing anything. And imo, acting like there's a big rise in the frequency or an "epidemic" of something like cruelty to others is disingenuous and dangerous. Generally, it leads to silly attempts to "solve the problem" through social engineering (which, of course, doesn't solve anything).

dobiwon
03-14-2007, 09:00 PM
From time to time, I'll hear about it again and it just pisses me off so much.

What the hell is wrong with my generation?


Akuma's initial posting referred to violence by teenagers, specifically senseless violence. Limiting the timeframe to the last 75 years or so, I think it's a logical conclusion that this type of behaviour showing up at a younger age may be due to the much higher mobility of teenagers now. 17- and 18-year olds (even going down to 12-and 13-year-olds) today have a tremendous amount of freedom compared to similar-aged persons 50 years ago. This increase in personal freedom has led, I believe, to an increased acceptance of responsibility by the majority of those persons (this is good, very good), but the nether side is also present, as it is in people of all ages (this is not good). More people with more freedom with more responsibility = good; more people with more freedom who don't act responsibly = not good.

I believe that increased media reporting is a two-edged sword. It raises awareness of senseless violence so that society as a whole can address it, but it also has a tendency to make it seem "business as usual" if people become more jaded.

Namatu
03-14-2007, 10:20 PM
I could be stepping my foot into something unpleasant here, but I think two things play into today's possible spread of violence and/or discourtesy. The first is a growing tendency to not accept responsibility for ones' own actions. It's the influence of video games or "I didn't even realize it until it was over," or something else made me do it (usually you, you made me tailgate you and give you the finger). Making a sweeping generalization, no one ever seems to accept accountability for the bad things they get caught doing.

The second contributing factor, in my opinion, is a cumulative, knee-jerk response to life. Generalizing again, it's all about work and rushing to it or from it. Everyone is in a hurry and other people who are going at a slower pace are just in the way. There's no room left for courtesy or consideration. We get so caught up in what we want and need that we don't consider that the slow person walking in front of us and holding us back from getting to the subway half a minute earlier might be struggling and in pain. Instead, we get annoyed that this "jerk" is walking too slow. Unless it's right up in our faces, it doesn't register anymore.

I'll end with: I completely generalized and none of what I said applies to every instance or person. How many times, though, do we get angry or frustrated over something that's not really important? Extrapolate that into a more peer-pressured, volatile situation and I could see how there exists the potential for explosive action.