Examples of Story Arcs?

[M.A.Gardener]

Does anyone know of some examples of story arcs? Not just how to do one, but actual examples - especially visual ones. The only one I can find is of Gorky Park, a book that I haven't read and don't really want to (because of the violence). I'd like to find some other books that have been analyzed so I can get a better idea of how to do one myself. ;)

[Edward G]

I know what a character arc is, but what is a story arc?

[Linda Adams]

As I recall, the book Plots discussed story arcs and used the Star Wars film The Empire Strikes Back as an example.

[maestrowork]

?

Every story has a story arc. Just pick up any book in the store, be it Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings.

I am not sure what you are asking.

[sunandshadow]

I don't know about visual examples, but there are books which contain plot summaries of famous novels. Here's one example, but there are lots if you search for them:
http://www.amazon.com/Plot-Outlines-100-Famous-Novels/dp/B000I1C5UY/sr=1-1/qid=1172455101/ref=sr_1_1/102-5730333-5554554?ie=UTF8&s=books

[M.A.Gardener]

Hey sunandshadow, thanks for the link. I'll check out that book to see what kinds of examples it has.

FYI: a "story arc" is sometimes referred to as "dramatic structure" as described here (which also shows a visual example):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dramatic_structure

I think of many books today as having more of an elongated pyramid, or maybe with the "falling action" as being shorter. At least, that's what I'm aiming for... :)

[PeeDee]

Babylon 5 and the X-Files both had "story arcs," that is to say a grand overall story that's "arcing" throughout the whole series, even while shorter stories begin and end throughout the course of it.

Everything's got 'em. They aren't referred to as story arcs unless they're in serial form of some sort (be it TV, radio, comics, serial novel, whatever). Otherwise, it's just the storyline.

As for visual representations....imagine a big bump. There you go.

[johnzakour]

I'm following Pete tonight. B5 may have had the best, 5 year arc ever.

[PeeDee]

I'm following Pete tonight. B5 may have had the best, 5 year arc ever.

Amen. I've watched that show dozens and dozens of times, and each time I get something new out of it. It's there with Lord of the Rings and Gaiman's Sandman, story-wise.

That's what a story-arc is. Trying to do one in a book is silly, because that's not how it works. A story arc is a great and unfolding thing over a massive period of time. If you plan to do seven books, twelve books, or a hundred-plus episodes of a TV series, you worry about story arcs.

[Imelda]

I'd watch season five of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Mini-character arcs abound, but the overall story arc is great.

Joss Wheadon is my God.

[PeeDee]

I'd watch season five of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Mini-character arcs abound, but the overall story arc is great.

Joss Wheadon is my God.

Or Joss Whedon, even. ;)

(sorry..)

Sure, and that counts just fine as a story arc. But the problem would be watching one single episode and saying "this is a story arc." It's not. It's just a storyline. And if that sounds like an anal retentive difference...well, it is. But it's a useful one to note too.

[Imelda]

Yeah, that's why I said watch 'season five' and not 'such-and-such an episode'. :rolleyes:

[PeeDee]

I wasn't having a go at you. You had it right. I was using Buffy season 5, from your example, to expound upon what I'd said earlier. That's all.

[johnzakour]

Battlestar Galatica also has quite the story arc.

[M.A.Gardener]

They aren't referred to as story arcs unless they're in serial form of some sort (be it TV, radio, comics, serial novel, whatever). Otherwise, it's just the storyline.

So are you saying that a storyline can't have an arc? That would make it pretty boring! ;)

[batgirl]

Serial stories often have a 'long story arc' and then arcs for the individual episodes. To go back to when I still had tv, the Pretender series had the long story arc of Jared seeking the story of his past, but each episode would have some specific conflict resolved as he investigated a mystery and dealt out rough justice.
The Fugitive would be an older example yet.

You can find plot descriptions for many stories, but I think what you're looking for is a resource that labels where the climax comes and what part is the denoument, etc. in several novels?
It might be helpful to look out for student texts of classic books, or Coles Notes (wait, they're called something else in the US, aren't they - Cliffs Notes?) type of guides, which may diagram the storyline helpfully.
-Barbara

[johnzakour]

So are you saying that a storyline can't have an arc? That would make it pretty boring! ;)

Look it up on Wikipedia. Story arcs are "bridges" or "boats" that tie a series of stories together.

Storylines still have dramtic structure.

There's a different, I'll let people smarter than I am explain it.

[gp101]

So are you saying that a storyline can't have an arc? That would make it pretty boring! ;)

You're putting too much time into the classifications of things. That said, from my understanding:

An MC has a character arc in a given novel. That arc is how he changes. That given novel has a storyline (or plotline, if you like). That particular storyline, to that particular novel, doesn't change. It is the "story". It is what it is. It is "the male spy trying to save the world", from beginning of novel to the end, or it is "the young woman fighting off desires for an older man", from beginning of novel to the end. Each of these two novels may have little detours, sidetracks, but they come back to what they truly are, the storyline doesn't change. So it won't start as the male spy saving the world, and end as the woman fighting desires of the older man. Yes, these two storylines can obviously be combined, but the point is, the novel can't be exclusively about the first storyline for the first half or three-quarters, and then exclusively about the second storyline for the remainder of the novel.

Maybe it's splicing hairs, mincing words, damn semantics, but I feel it's the MC that has the arc in a given novel, not the storyline. To say that the storyline has an arc, I think you really mean the MC has the arc. To me, the story has an arc when it's from book to book, or episode to episode for TV and film; in this instance, that's where the storyline changes and has its own arc, over the course of several (or more) related works, the way an MC has an arc in one novel.

If you're talking about how the story has its peaks and valleys, how it "changes", then I think you're talking about the story structure (beginning, middle, end, rising and falling action, etc). Are you doing any great harm referring to a single novel's "story arc"? No. But it might confuse someone you're asking for help if you mix up the terms.

And, if I've mixed up the terms, I'm sure someone will be along shortly to slap... I mean, to kindly show me where I have gone wrong with my terminology.

UJ..? Where are you? What's your final answer? And don't paddle me too hard. That ruler in your hands looks like it'll leave a mark.

[Edward G]

You're putting too much time into the classifications of things. That said, from my understanding:

An MC has a character arc in a given novel. That arc is how he changes. That given novel has a storyline (or plotline, if you like). That particular storyline, to that particular novel, doesn't change. It is the "story". It is what it is. It is "the male spy trying to save the world", from beginning of novel to the end, or it is "the young woman fighting off desires for an older man", from beginning of novel to the end. Each of these two novels may have little detours, sidetracks, but they come back to what they truly are, the storyline doesn't change. So it won't start as the male spy saving the world, and end as the woman fighting desires of the older man. Yes, these two storylines can obviously be combined, but the point is, the novel can't be exclusively about the first storyline for the first half or three-quarters, and then exclusively about the second storyline for the remainder of the novel.

Maybe it's splicing hairs, mincing words, damn semantics, but I feel it's the MC that has the arc in a given novel, not the storyline. To say that the storyline has an arc, I think you really mean the MC has the arc. To me, the story has an arc when it's from book to book, or episode to episode for TV and film; in this instance, that's where the storyline changes and has its own arc, over the course of several (or more) related works, the way an MC has an arc in one novel.

If you're talking about how the story has its peaks and valleys, how it "changes", then I think you're talking about the story structure (beginning, middle, end, rising and falling action, etc). Are you doing any great harm referring to a single novel's "story arc"? No. But it might confuse someone you're asking for help if you mix up the terms.

And, if I've mixed up the terms, I'm sure someone will be along shortly to slap... I mean, to kindly show me where I have gone wrong with my terminology.

UJ..? Where are you? What's your final answer? And don't paddle me too hard. That ruler in your hands looks like it'll leave a mark.

I couldn't have said this better myself. That's exactly why I asked the question: "What's a story arc?"

[MattW]

There's a story behind this ark, but it ends by melting your face off:

http://drzaius.ics.uci.edu/blogs/setbang/raiders_of_the_lost_ark_1.jpg

[virtue_summer]

Look it up on Wikipedia. Story arcs are "bridges" or "boats" that tie a series of stories together.

Storylines still have dramtic structure.

There's a different, I'll let people smarter than I am explain it.

Just to remind you, wikipedia is not an expert source. I visited it's main page listing it as "the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit." I'm not saying you're not right but I think your arguments should go beyond telling someone to look things up on a source like this.

[PeeDee]

Wikipedia is good enough for kissing, but you'd be crazy to use it for an actual reference material. It's spotty at best, but it's useful for the general. It's best to think of it less as an encyclopedia and more as a well-informed bunch of opinions.

Anyway, we can all avoid wikipedia and just assume that my definitions for "story arcs" were well-informed, had experience behind them, and I'm so smart. That'd be fine too.

[johnzakour]

Just to remind you, wikipedia is not an expert source. I visited it's main page listing it as "the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit." I'm not saying you're not right but I think your arguments should go beyond telling someone to look things up on a source like this.

I was just saying Wiki could be a starting point. Obviously it's the most subjective encylopedia in the world.

And my argument (which really wasn't an argument) did have an explanation of story arc, albeit not a great one hence the reference to wikipedia.

[maestrowork]

Every "complete" story should have at least one arc, sometimes more, and they can be long (such as the Harry Potter series or Star Wars trilogies) or shorter (each Indiana Jones is a complete story). We shouldn't confuse plot with story.

[johnzakour]

Every "complete" story should have at least one arc, sometimes more, and they can be long (such as the Harry Potter series or Star Wars trilogies) or shorter (each Indiana Jones is a complete story). We shouldn't confuse plot with story.

Wait, are we confusing plot with story or arc with story or arc with plot? Or are we just all playing with semantics and all really saying the same things but differently?

Dang, I really should have taken a second writing class...

[Toothpaste]

Are we talking "beginning, rising action, climax, denoument"?

[PeeDee]

No, we're not. That's called a "story" which we sometimes sell as "a novel," and is the case with Indiana Jones.

A "story arc," would be that throughout all the Harry Potter movies, the situation with Voldemort changes and shifts and becomes something different.

The "story" of Harry Potter is "the tri-wizard tournament," or "prisoner escapes from Azkaban," or whatever.

The STORY ARC is the overall story that is being built throughout all the books.

[maestrowork]

Wait, are we confusing plot with story or arc with story or arc with plot? Or are we just all playing with semantics and all really saying the same things but differently?

Dang, I really should have taken a second writing class...

Plot and story are two different things. It is not just semantics.

A story is made of plots, and it has an overall arc (or two).

If you're still confused, try this:

- describe the plot(s) of Jurassic Park
- describe what the story of Jurassic Park is about
- tell us what the story arc is in Jurassic Park

[PeeDee]

That's still just the storyline of Jurassic Park. A movie or book has the overall storyline with little side plots.

Individual storyline of "The Return of the Jedi" is Luke and his friends regain their footing and make a last, deadly strike against the Empire while Luke finally faces his father.

The STORY ARC of the original Star Wars trilogy is Darth Vader, having risen to evil, now discovers family and humanity and eventually redemption.

[PeeDee]

Babylon 5 was a story arc, in that the same story was told over three or four seasons (apart from the one-off's at the beginning and end). Each season had a story arc.

Star Trek The Next Generation did NOT have a story arc.

[johnzakour]

Plot and story are two different things. It is not just semantics.

A story is made of plots, and it has an overall arc (or two).

If you're still confused, try this:

- describe the plot(s) of Jurassic Park
- describe what the story of Jurassic Park is about
- tell us what the story arc is in Jurassic Park

Plot of Jurassic Park: Some dinos want to eat people, people don't want to be eaten by dinos.

Story: some scientist doesn't realize bring dinos back to life may not be a good idea as dinos like to eat people.

Story Arc: the first movie made a lot of money so they made another movie about yet more dinos eating more people.

So plots are the building blocks of arcs which are the building blocks of stories? Or are plots the building blocks of stories which when put together make an arc? Which I believe is what Pete is saying and what I believe.

I'm just not sure if we're calling different things the same thing or the same thing different things. It's late.

[maestrowork]

I am not sure if I agree that an arc only applies to series (book, TV, trilogies, etc.) Surely in a series, the arc is more obvious. But in a stand-alone story (such as Indiana Jones), there is an arc if you look closely, and I'm not talking about beginning, middle and end. You can treat each segments of scenes as "episodes" in a series and come to the realization that the entire story has an arc, made of these individual segments of scenes. Take Raiders of the Lost Ark (no pun intended) for instance, there are a number of key plot segments and "set pieces" and they all build up to the climax along the arc:

- the mention of the Ark
- the search for the medallion (it's the first piece of the puzzle)
- the search for the Ark
- losing the Ark
- Rediscovering the Ark
- the final reveal of the Ark

If you would look at each segment as an "episode" of a series such as Lost, then you can see that the "story arc" also applies to stand-alone stories.

[johnzakour]

I am not sure if I agree that an arc only applies to series (book, TV, trilogies, etc.) Surely in a series, the arc is more obvious. But in a stand-alone story (such as Indiana Jones), there is an arc if you look closely, and I'm not talking about beginning, middle and end. You can treat each segments of scenes as "episodes" in a series and come to the realization that the entire story has an arc, made of these individual segments of scenes. Take Raiders of the Lost Ark (no pun intended) for instance, there are a number of key plot segments and "set pieces" and they all build up to the climax along the arc:

- the mention of the Ark
- the search for the medallion (it's the first piece of the puzzle)
- the search for the Ark
- losing the Ark
- Rediscovering the Ark
- the final reveal of the Ark

If you would look at each segment as an "episode" of a series such as Lost, then you can see that the "story arc" also applies to stand-alone stories.

See to me that's plotting. But I've only taken one writing class and that was 30 years ago, so I may be way off here. I also think we might be talking about the same thing just calling it something different.

Writing is fun.

[maestrowork]

The STORY ARC of the original Star Wars trilogy is Darth Vader, having risen to evil, now discovers family and humanity and eventually redemption.

Yes, but what if the whole Star War trilogy was condensed into one single miniseries, or novel? Each "episode" is now key scenes/plot point? Would you still argue that it's only a storyline and not an arc?

To me, an arc is an arc no matter if it spans over 50 episodes, or in one single book.

[maestrowork]

See to me that's plotting.

My thought is that if we spread Indiana Jones over a TV series -- 13-episode season or multiple seasons -- we would say there's a story arc. However, since it's in one single movie, we say it's a storyline. Same difference to me. Plotting to me is different from story/story arc. Plotting is what happens now, and then what happens next and how it affects the things that follows: action and consequences. Between point A and point B.

Jurassic Park:

Plot = dinos get loose in a park, eat people, and people don't want to be eaten, so they run... until they can run no more, then someone comes and saves the day, and dinos romp free on remote island.

Story = men shouldn't attempt to control or change nature

Story arc = through the first excitement to the last horror, scientists go from arrogance to humbleness, realizing at the end, nature wins.

I admit the "arc" is not that obvious, but it is there. I suppose if we really want to make a distinction, we could only use "arc" in longer-form storytelling, thus the wikipedia's definition. But I just don't agree with that. I believe every good story should have an arc, however subtle it is. Perhaps we are talking about semantics here. Perhaps in order for something to be called an arc, it needs to span over certain stories....


Of course, I could be completely wrong. These are just my opinions.

[johnzakour]

My thought is that if we spread Indiana Jones over a TV series of 13 episode, we would say there's a story arc. However, since it's in one single movie, we say it's a storyline. Same difference to me. Plotting to me is different from story/story arc. Plotting is what happens now, and then what happens next and how it affects the things that follows: action and consequences. Between point A and point B.

Jurassic Park:

Plot = dinos get loose in a park, eat people, and people don't want to be eaten, so they run... until they can run no more, then someone comes and saves the day.

Story = men shouldn't attempt to control or change nature

Story arc = through the first excitement to the last horror, scientists go from arrogance to humbleness, realizing at the end, nature wins.

I admit the "arc" is not that obvious, but it is there. I suppose if we really want to make a distinction, we could only use "arc" in longer-form storytelling, thus the wikipedia's definition. But I just don't agree with that. I believe every good story should have an arc, however subtle it is.

Of course, I could be completely wrong. These are just my opinions.

I can certainly see where you are coming from.

I'm coming from a computer programming background so I like to take small things and put them together and make them into bigger things.

That's why I kind of see it as plots make up stories which in turn make up arcs.

I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying that's how I see it.

[Toothpaste]

Is this just an issue of semantics?

Toothpaste, who is enjoying posting in single sentences.

[PeeDee]

Sorry, Ray, for once we disagree wildly, but I guess I'll still let you sit next to me in the Cafeteria. :D

"Story arcs" are a big deal for me, because I spent so much time writing serial novels in which the "story arc" was a vital piece of my work. A lot of things I"ve read and watched have story arcs. Babylon 5 is the biggest and best example of story arcs.

Comics have story arcs that span multiple issues and multiple storylines. A "story arc" refers to a type of storyline which is spread and "arcing" over the rest of the little storylines.

I would call the Indiana Jones example just the "story," or the "plot," just like I would call the Jurassic park example the "moral," (even if it's not a 'moral' in the classical sense).

But a story arc is a definite thing. It bugs me, I guess, because it's like writing a 20,000 word story and calling it a novel. It's not. Now if you write five or six 20,000 word stories and they connect, you could call that a novel, I guess. It's the same thing.

[johnzakour]

Is this just an issue of semantics?

Toothpaste, who is enjoying posting in single sentences.

Yes, I believe it may be.

I think I mentioned that earlier.

JZ, now also posting in single sentences.

[PeeDee]

Is this just an issue of semantics?

Toothpaste, who is enjoying posting in single sentences.

It probably is, which makes me neurotic for being driven batshit about it... :)

[johnzakour]

This is a topic that needs to be discussed over wings and drinks.

[Toothpaste]

Hmm . . . wings and drinks. . .

[maestrowork]

So an arc is a superset of stories -- an overall "grand" story, if you will, that is comprised of many individual, sometimes unrelated, stories/episodes? So an "arc" has a very specific definition, then.

To me, it really becomes a semantic issue. To me, my novel with a coming-of-age/redemption arc is very much an arc, even though there's no individual episodes or little "stories." But according to your definition, it's just a story. There's no arc. But there is one in Star Wars, even though it's a similar coming-of-age/redemption arc.

Yes, I really do think it's semantics.

[PeeDee]

So an arc is a superset of stories -- an overall "grand" story, if you will, that is comprised of many individual, sometimes unrelated, stories/episodes? So an "arc" has a very specific definition, then.

Yes! YES! Exactly! Allah be praised, we at last understand each other!

[johnzakour]

So an arc is a superset of stories -- an overall "grand" story, if you will, that is comprised of many individual, sometimes unrelated, stories/episodes? So an "arc" has a very specific definition, then.

That's how I see it.

But like I said, I'm a computer science guy.

I like things to fit together.

I'm not saying it's right.

I do like the idea of wings and drinks though.

[johnzakour]

Yes! YES! Exactly! Allah be praised, we at last understand each other!

Yeah, the world is now a happy place.

I can now happily go back to writing my next novel before my editor shows up and beats me up.

I'm still up for wings (or some sort of fried something) and drinks...

[Birol]

No, it's not an issue of semantics.

Each story has a plot or storyline. Interconnected stories that have an arc build on one another. The Indiana Jones movies each had an individual story and were connected by belonging to the same universe, but they did not have an arc. There might be jokes which were taken from one and inserted into another -- shooting someone who wanted to fight -- but missing one movie did not make you unable to enjoy the others. You did not have to watch them in sequence. In Star Trek, there exists "the big red reset button" that takes everything back to status quo at the end of each episode. What happened in Episode 1, Season 1 did not effect anything in Season 2. In the Babylon 5 series, that PeeDee keeps referencing, if you missed an episode in Season 1, it's possible you'd be lost when something happened in Season 3 that was built on that incident, because each episode was a brick, or scene, in the overall story of the season, each season was a plot point in the overall story arc of the series. The series was always meant to be five seasons long; it was plotted and planned out to be five seasons long. It was not being thought out each season as the series was renewed by the network.

A character arc is entirely different than a story arc.



ETA: Posts 38-46 were posted while I was typing this response to Post 37.

[PeeDee]

Fried chicken is all that's needed to placate me. That and agreement with Ray on what a story arc is.

(it's truly neurotic, but I feel infinitely better now. I can go back to writing.)

[maestrowork]

I, too, am a computer science guy. I just don't see it that way. I guess I am approaching this from a philosophical angle, and not a hierarchical model. I can see both sides: a) functions -> subroutines -> modules -> programs -> applications, or b) software is just software.

But I am beginning to understand the specific meanings, especially in series, of the term "arc."

Battlestar Gallactica, for example, would be considered to have an arc because if you miss episode 3 in season 2, you may not understand anything in season 3, or an episode in season 2 might be dependent on a clue in season 1.... so the entire thing is an "arc."

Now I am ready for the wings and beer.

[PeeDee]

A character arc is entirely different than a story arc.

Right, and character arcs (which can be similar to story arcs, actually) are also built brick by brick, except that you can usually miss bits and pieces here and still manage something of the picture.

[johnzakour]

Fried chicken is all that's needed to placate me.

I'm buying at Comic Con! Or World Fantasy.

[maestrowork]

Right, and character arcs (which can be similar to story arcs, actually) are also built brick by brick, except that you can usually miss bits and pieces here and still manage something of the picture.

But don't you think that usually a story arc and character arcs go hand-in-hand? (again, take Star Wars for instance... the story arc vs. Darth Vader's character arc)

[johnzakour]

But don't you think that usually a story arc and character arcs go hand-in-hand? (again, take Star Wars for instance... the story arc vs. Darth Vader's character arc)

Oh man, you're going to set Pete off again.

I'm just thinking about wings and drinks....

The good thing about writing is we can disagree on this and still continue to be good writers.

[PeeDee]

Of course they still go hand in hand. They absolutely go hand in hand.

Character arcs are an integral part of the Star Wars story, for example. Luke's character arc, Han & Leia's character arc, Vader's character arc, those are the character arcs. They are indistinguishable from the story arc, really.

Whereas on the TV show House, generally each episode stands on its own, but the evolution of Gregory House is a character arc as he changes.

[Birol]

The character arcs are intertwined in the story arc, that is, if it's a character driven story.

[maestrowork]

Another question, then we'll go grab some beers:

In House, for example (I don't watch much TV), wouldn't you say if you watch S3E2, then you watch S1E5, you would get confused, even though there's no real story arc (each episode stands on its own) because Gregory House seems so different?

In Six Feet Under, for example, the five seasons make up of one giant arc that culminated to a satisfying conclusion of 5 minutes. It may not be necessary to watch all five in chronological order but it really is helpful to understand it. An episode may have its own story, but many of these episodes are related and if you miss an entire season, it's hard to follow the rest and definitely would miss the impact of the final minutes...

That's why I stopped watching ER (or other series) altogether, because I've missed enough that I didn't get it anymore.

[Birol]

Whether or not you'd get confused with House would depend on who you are as a person and your way of looking at the world. Same with Six Feet Under. It depends if you, as an individual, are capable of incorporating information out of sequence. However, I think it would be more likely for someone to get confused watching Six Feet Under out of sequence than House.

To move this back to literature, take Anne McCaffrey's Pern series. You can choose to read them in the order they were written or you can read them in chronological order. If you read them in chronological order then you will miss out on the gradual reveal that takes place over the course of the series as it was written. You will be reading with additional information and knowledge that is not present in the storyline as it was intended to be revealed.

[Raphee]

Oh , just tell me where the drinks are.

[Birol]

They're on the table behind PeeDee. Don't trust what he says about the tea. He just wants it all for himself.

[maestrowork]

DO NOT drink PeeDee's tea (aka PDT).

[PeeDee]

DO NOT drink PeeDee's tea (aka PDT).

Which, spookily enough, are my initials.

Yes, you might get confused if you went back and saw earlier episodes with House. You wouldn't understand why he acts differently. But, it's written well enough that this wouldn't be a hinderence to you. You could watch it, assume you'd missed something in between (a logical assumption, since you have) and then enjoy the story itself.