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LadyMyst

09-09-2003, 11:27 AM

:\ I was wondering if anyone had heard of Mundana Press LLC? I found them today. Sounds okay. Are they POD, or small press?
How would one get out of a contact? Get the rights back? I wont out of my contract with PA.;)

emeraldcite

09-09-2003, 12:23 PM

well, they don't have any books for sale on amazon, and if they're not selling there...well, you can draw your own conclusions. Even POD books are on amazon.

XThe NavigatorX

10-17-2003, 12:31 PM

It's Mundania press, not Mundana Press, I think. They publish a couple Piers Anthony titles at POD prices. I think they're primarily an epublisher. The guy who runs it is the Vice-President of EPIC, the people who do the EPPIE awards.

www.mundania.com (http://www.mundania.com)

McInnes

10-17-2003, 08:32 PM

Okay, so we now know that PA gets a big thumbs down...but has anyone ever dealt with Mundania?

I like the straight talk on their site (which still wouldn't stop me from taking a contract to a lawyer before signing), and am curious as to how well they conduct business.

DaveKuzminski

10-18-2003, 05:18 AM

I just visited the site. Doesn't look bad. Contains a sample contract with sections explained in plain language. I don't see a problem nor have I received any complaints regarding Mundania over at P&E.

I may even submit work there later.

marky48

10-18-2003, 05:31 AM

Where are the print runs? This is an online only POD. Do they mention returns? I think not.

Trobull3

11-26-2003, 11:38 PM

Hello there. If you need more information about Mundania Press, please feel free to visit the website www.mundania.com it has all the information you need to contact the company. If you're looking for books then you can look for them at Amazon.com we have a number of titles there for purchase.

If I can help answer questions please feel free to write me directly at bob@mundania.com.

Take Care,

Bob Sanders
CEO
Mundania Press

arainsb123

08-13-2004, 05:26 AM

Mundania Press looked legit to me, and I figured that since it has published Piers Anthony and has a recommended rating on P&E that it was reputable.

Anyone have an experience with them to share? As well, do they use offest or POD printing?

Trobull3

08-13-2004, 12:03 PM

Hello there. I'm Bob Sanders CEO of Mundania Press. We use both means to publish book titles. When we accept a book we plan a budget based a number of factors including the author's marketing plan. If we feel the title will sell well and sell quickly then we will invest in print runs. If the author have never marketed before or has a short track record then we will go the POD (Print on Demand) route.

If you have any more questions please feel free to contact me directly at bob@mundania.com.

Best Regards,

Bob Sanders
CEO, Mundania Press

FM St George

08-13-2004, 06:04 PM

thanks for coming here to post - I, for one, appreciate hearing from the source!

arainsb123

08-14-2004, 12:59 AM

I also appreciate you posting here. I emailed you this question, but hopefully I'll get a faster response if I post it here:

I looked through your list of books, and a substantial number of them had no cover image displayed on Amazon.com. As well, none of them had sales ranks above 1,000,000 except for one of Piers Anthony's books, which had a sales rank of 63,000. Why aren't the images displayed? As well, why are the sales ranks less than stellar for almost all of your books? Are the vast majority of your authors' books sold through other online retailers, your site, and bookstores, perhaps?

Thank you vey much for spending the time to read through this forum.

DaveKuzminski

08-14-2004, 01:52 AM

From what I've seen and heard, the problem with some covers not appearing at the online bookstores appears to be either a lost or misnamed file at the online location. Sometimes those become corrupted and stop showing after appearing to be fine at first. I think the best people to ask would be at the bookstore's online location.

arainsb123

08-14-2004, 02:01 AM

Ok, thanks for the info.

Risseybug

08-15-2004, 06:51 PM

Thanks again to this board! I would never have found the Mundania website if you hadn't mentioned it. Another publisher that I can submit to :)

I have hope for this book again...

1walkingadverb

02-04-2005, 04:37 AM

It is Mundania Press and they are an e-publisher. They also rate highly with P&E.

Julie Worth

02-06-2005, 03:17 AM

If a publisher was only going to e-publish or POD my book, I'd keep looking.

CourtneyAllisonMoulton

02-07-2005, 10:47 PM

Has anyone heard of this publisher or had any experience with them? They are a small publisher and I have having difficulty researching them, but they seem like a good publisher to me.

Here is the link:
www.mundania.com/ (http://www.mundania.com/)

EGGammon

02-07-2005, 10:50 PM

I think this belongs in the 'Bewares and Background Check' board. Victoria will answer it for ya.

aka eraser

02-07-2005, 10:54 PM

There's already a thread in B & BC about Mundania. The first page is here:

p197.ezboard.com/fabsolut...=1&stop=20 (http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessageRange?topicID=161.t opic&start=1&stop=20)

I'll close this one now.

MundaniaPress

02-08-2005, 04:07 AM

In answer to several questions that have been raised on this thread, Mundania Press LLC is a traditional publisher, meaning that we review and accept the manuscripts that we publish. Like all traditional publishers there is NEVER ANY COST to the author. We take care of all aspects of publishing the book. We pay editors, cover artists, and all publication costs. We provide a number of free author copies, and authors may purchase additional copies at a 40% discount of they wish. There is no obligation to purchase any copies.

We do not pay advances, but we do pay royalties on every copy sold. We pay 15% net on print copies, and 50% net on eBooks. Royalties are paid quarterly.

All Mundania Press titles are distributed through Ingram's US, Ingram's UK, and Baker & Taylor distributors. In addition, all titles are sold though Mundania's website (www.mundania.com), (http://www.mundania.com),) through Amazon's Marketplace (which is in addition to the normal Amazon listing), half.com, ebay.com, and other outlets. At last count, our books appear on 32 of the major online booksellers.

All Mundania titles are released simultaneously as premium quality trade-sized paperbacks and eBooks. We are first and foremost a print publisher, but we provide eBook editions as demand continues to grow. Depending on the particular book and popularity of the author, a dustjacketed hardcover edition may also be released. Our books have received several cover artwork awards and we have had nothing but rave reviews for our quality.

All Mundania titles are fully returnable and can be ordered and stocked in any bookstore and library. We do fulfill orders directly to Barnes & Noble, Borders, and many independent bookstores. We also provide copies to library distributors like Blackwell's, Coutt's, and Mid-Continental. We order print runs of every book to stock in-house for orders through Baker & Taylor and direct orders to Mundania.

The Amazon.com rating has a lot to do with how well-known an author might be, and can directly relate to how much an author promotes their book getting reviews, doing booksignings, word-of-mouth, etc. Amazon is directly responsible for retrieving the cover image from Books-in-Print, where Mundania does post all covers. For some reason, Amazon seems to not be very efficient picking up those covers. When we discover a cover is missing, we upload it to Amazon.

POD, unfortunately, is a negative term that is applied to vanity and subsidy presses such as Publish America and Xlibris. POD is really only another method of printing books, generally associated with printing smaller print runs down to one at a time. It rarely has anything to do with quality unless the publisher specifically gets printing done at a low-quality printer.

We have been in business since August 2002, and to date, we've published 58 books not counting eBook formats. We publish most all fiction novels and annual anthologies. We receive approximately 100 submissions each month. Our current anthology has received over 460 stories submitted. Mundania Press publishes first time authors, as well as several best-selling authors, such as Piers Anthony, Louise Cooper, Don Callander, Robert Adams, Anne Logston, and Frank O'Rouke.

We will be republishing Adam's entire "Coming of the Horseclans" series (all 18 books), as well as Louise Cooper's Time Master trilogy and several stand alone novels. We are putting all of Callander's and Logston's books back in print and will be publishing new ones as well. We have over 200 books scheduled for release in 2005 and 2006.

We have an extensive FAQ section on our website, and we have our no-nonsense sample contract posted with all the legalese explained in detail.

Mundania has received a "recommended" rating from Preditors & Editors, and is ranked #16 in book publishers this year (up from #22 last year).

Finally, since discussion lists may not always give you the correct facts, if you have any questions at all, the best approach is to go straight to the source and write us at books@mundania.com. You will receive a straight answer within a day or two at most. We can provide email addresses to any of our authors and encourage you to speak with them about Mundania's reputation, and the care and honesty with which we deal with our authors.

Daniel Reitz
Mundania Press LLC
dan@mundania.com

FM St George

02-08-2005, 04:27 AM

thank you, Daniel.

fwiw, before submitting my novel to them (and still waiting to hear back) I took it upon myself to contact one of their authors and asked his/her opinion - the feedback was VERY positive and helped make up my mind.

:)

Greenwolf103

02-08-2005, 04:42 AM

I submitted my novel to them, too. Haven't heard back yet but I'm not complaining; it hasn'r been the length of time stated in their guidelines. (I'm too busy writing other books and everything else to grow impatient, as it is.) But all of that helpful information above has set my mind at ease.

I know what you mean about Amazon and book covers. I had a book come out in December and Amazon *still* doesn't have the cover on there! Nor do they have the cover for another book. I inquired about this and they responded with, "You have to load it yourself." Grr.

Thank you, Mr. Reitz, for your response!

CaoPaux

08-04-2005, 02:06 AM

As Seen On P&E...http://www.mundania.com/submissions.html

JerseyGirl1962

08-04-2005, 08:23 PM

I haven't submitted anything to them, but I did pick up one of their books (at Amazon), Winter's Orphans by Elaine Corvidae (originally published by Novel Books; I suppose she got the rights back when they went under & signed with Mundania).

I was surprised that I received a trade paperback; I paid a bit more than a mass market paperback, so I probably shouldn't have been so surprised. :Headbang:

All in all, I found the book (and story) to be very good; in fact, I was actually glad it was a trade paperback, because the words were in a bigger font size than that in mass market paperbacks (at least to my sometimes crappy eyes).

I don't remember seeing any typos, either.

So, from the reader's perspective, they seem to be a very good publisher. If I can't find an agent for my next WIP (I've put the first one aside for various reasons), I think I know which publisher would be first on my list. :)

~Nancy

Mark Wakely

08-04-2005, 10:46 PM

Hi-

My novel, An Audience for Einstein, was published by Mundania in January. As I just posted in Announcements, my book just reached a triple-digit ranking this morning on Amazon after a slow, steady climb:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1594260966/qid=1109618678/sr=12-1/002-0018683-3472821?v=glance&s=books

Look quick- might drop a bit today. But I'm confident my book will be back in triple-digit territory soon.

So yes, Mundania is a good publisher. My experience with them so far has been great.

Mark

JerseyGirl1962

08-04-2005, 11:22 PM

:welcome:

Mark,

It was down to 1,021 or somesuch rank; man, I would love for a book of mine to be that far up in the rankings (once I finish, that is).

I guess what's more important is that all the reviews at Amazon were positive beyond belief...and someone hinted at awards for the book...

Sounds like a real winner. I've already put it in my Wish List! :)

~Nancy

Elwyn

09-09-2005, 10:33 PM

Any comments on Mundania Press? P&E recommends them, but I thought someone here may have some insight.

From thier Web site:
Publishing Rights
Your submission must have electronic (eBook) and print rights (hardcover and paperback) available. If any of these rights is not currently available, please do not submit. You automatically own these rights when you wrote your book. As long as you have not contracted these rights to another publisher, you still retain them.

What exactly does the first line of the above mean? If I had print rights, why wouldn't I have eBook rights?

BTW - Several weeks ago I sent my manuscript and 30 bucks to the US Copyright office, so I guess I have all rights?

Cathy C

09-09-2005, 11:42 PM

Because a number of the electronic publishers only take electronic rights, Elwyn, leaving the mass paperback, trade paperback and hardback rights with the author. Mundania is a small press that produces both electronic and (if buyer demand warrants it) trade paperback books. So, an electronic author couldn't go to Mundania to JUST print the trade paperback edition. Does that make sense?

I'm sorry you registered the copyright, though, because it didn't do any good. You'll have to do it all over again if it gets published. See, only the FINAL version of a book should be applied for copyright, after edits. Any publisher worth their salt will do it again, because the copyright form lists them as publisher. No harm done, but you're out the money. Sorry. :( For future reference, you're protected from the moment you put word on paper (or monitor) without registering pursuant to the changes promulgated in the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1997. For more information, go here (http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html#mywork)

CaoPaux

09-10-2005, 12:02 AM

Elwyn, have you checked out our Index? Here's where we've discussed Mundania before.

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=542

Also, copyright is different from publishing rights. The Index lists many threads on that as well.

MundaniaPress

09-12-2005, 08:31 AM

Mundania Press always publishes our books in Trade Paperback and eBook formats simultaneously. We are first and foremost a print publisher, but we offer eBook editions too since the demand is growing. This is why we ask for both electronic and print rights from the author.

For some well-known authors, or certain best-selling books, we may also publish a dust-jacketed hardcover edition, which helps get the book into libraries.

We have received a "recommended" rating on P&E and our reader’s poll on P&E rose from #22 to #16 publisher this past year.

As far as publishing rights, the author would still retain these as long as he or she has not already contracted those rights to another publisher. As someone else mentioned above, publishing rights are different than a copyright. As the author, you are the owner of the book and hold the copyright to it. You would grant us the publishing rights, which includes the ability to print, distribute, market, and sell your book for a specific amount of time--you still own your book.

All of our books (print and eBook editions) are distributed through Ingram's US, Ingram's UK, Baker & Taylor, and eBooks are also sold through FictionWise. All of our books are fully returnable so may be ordered by any bookstore. We supply Barnes & Noble, Borders, and several independent bookstores directly. We also sell books directly from our website (http://www.mundania.com (http://www.mundania.com/)).

We are open to new authors as well as previously published authors who want to put their books back into print. We publish several New York Times best-selling authors, including Piers Anthony, Don Callander, Anne Logston, Robert Adams, and Louise Cooper.

We are currently open for submissions, however, our publication schedule is filled through early 2007. We receive approximately 300 manuscripts per month and accept about 1 to 2% for publication. We are very picky about the books we take as we only want the best-written, most entertaining books to join our offerings.

We have just passed our third anniversary in August 2005, and have published 115 books in various formats to-date.

If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact us at books@mundania.com.

Daniel Reitz
Senior Editor
Mundania Press

triceretops

09-12-2005, 09:25 AM

Mundania was very swift and attentive with my submissions (I have a whole manuscript with them now). Whatever you do, give them some time--they are popular and get a lot of submissions.

Triceratops

AnneMarble

09-12-2005, 05:27 PM

What exactly does the first line of the above mean? If I had print rights, why wouldn't I have eBook rights?
Some previously published authors might not have both electronic and print rights. It depends on the contract they signed, and when they signed it. Newer contracts will include electronic rights (unless the author negotiates a different deal), while some of the older contracts did not as electronic rights weren't so important then.

This explains, in part, why some previously published authors are able to release electronic books of their out-of-print books through companies such as e-reads, while in other cases, the rights are still with the publisher.

Although maybe this isn't what they meant at all. :D

Sheryl Nantus

09-12-2005, 06:31 PM

Mundania was very swift and attentive with my submissions (I have a whole manuscript with them now). Whatever you do, give them some time--they are popular and get a lot of submissions.

Triceratops

I :Hail: Mundania.

:banana:

oracle

03-22-2006, 09:46 PM

To those enlightened souild who inhabit the water cooler zone:

Does anyone have information of a publishing conpany called Mundania? I read of one favorable review but nothing else. I am considering forwarding my novel for their consideration but I would like some background info on them before doing so. All help is greatly appreciated.

James D. Macdonald

03-22-2006, 09:52 PM

Mundania is a highly respected small-press science fiction house.

oracle

03-22-2006, 11:01 PM

Thanks James. There are so many scammers out there in the publishing and literary representation arenas that one never knows whom to trust. The contributors at the water cooler appear to be sincere and honest. I'm glad I ran across this forum. Thanks again.

victoriastrauss

03-23-2006, 01:38 AM

Be aware, though, that like many small POD-based publishers, it has very limited ability to market and distribute its books.

- Victoria

Aconite

03-23-2006, 04:41 AM

bloemmarc

03-23-2006, 05:33 AM

Remember to check the Index before starting new threads. Two threads on Mundania already exist:
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=542
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18716

Yes, except for one of the links doesn't show up, and the other index for Mundania is more about Publish America than anything.

CaoPaux

03-23-2006, 07:58 PM

Yes, except for one of the links doesn't show up, and the other index for Mundania is more about Publish America than anything.The bad link is a result of threads being merged (I'll axe it during my next update, if a mod don't beat me to it). I suggest starting at post #58 for the meatiest mentions of Mundania.

James D. Macdonald

03-23-2006, 08:00 PM

I'll try to separate them out.

----

Done. See The PublishAmerica Wars (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29608&page=1&pp=25) for the extraneous stuff.

CaoPaux

03-23-2006, 08:49 PM

:Hail:

MundaniaPressCEO

03-23-2006, 11:27 PM

Be aware, though, that like many small POD-based publishers, it has very limited ability to market and distribute its books.

- Victoria
Victoria,

I'd like to take a few minutes and address the POD-based publisher comment. Mundania Press is a well-respected publisher of diverse genres in a wide verity of formats such as trade paperback, hardcover, e-books, and has recently added audio formats (MP3, WAV, and Cassette).

POD or Print on Demand is a term to describe a printing process and should not be confused with distribution. All titles are available worldwide and our reach extends to Europe and Australia. Our books are distributed through Ingram's US and UK, as well as Baker & Taylor. Both companies together comprise the largest distribution network in the world.

Our accent on quality is evident by reviewing our authors list. For a small press to have one NY Times best selling author is enough to "Wow" anyone, we have five (Piers Anthony, Robert Adams, Louise Cooper, Don Callander, and Anne Logston).

All of these accomplishments have been established in less than four years of operation.

Thank you for letting me take this time to set the record stright.

Best regards,

Bob Sanders
CEO, Mundania Press

victoriastrauss

03-23-2006, 11:53 PM

POD or Print on Demand is a term to describe a printing process and should not be confused with distribution. All titles are available worldwide and our reach extends to Europe and Australia. Our books are distributed through Ingram's US and UK, as well as Baker & Taylor. Both companies together comprise the largest distribution network in the world.Actually, this setup is typical of POD-based publishers.

Ingram and Baker and Taylor are wholesalers, not distributors. Distributors (such as Publishers Group West) provide a sales force to sell publishers' books into stores; wholesalers don't. To gain bookstore presence--which is essential to volume sales--a small publisher needs either to field its own sales force, or work with a distributor. Otherwise, their ability to distribute--in the industry-accepted sense of getting books onto bookstore shelves--will probably be very limited.
Our accent on quality is evident by reviewing our authors list. For a small press to have one NY Times best selling author is enough to "Wow" anyone, we have five (Piers Anthony, Robert Adams, Louise Cooper, Don Callander, and Anne Logston).These authors established their sales credentials with other, larger commercial houses. I suspect that their sales figures with Mundania are a fraction of their sales figures elsewhere.

Please understand that I don't intend in any way to imply that Mundania isn't an honest, well-intentioned publisher that strives to produce quality books. I'm just pointing out that, as with other small presses that rely on POD and have limited budgets for marketing and distribution, author exposure will probably be small.

- Victoria

bloemmarc

03-24-2006, 12:10 AM

I submitted to Mundania Press,a nd sandrylin publications
I could not find anthing at all about Sandrylin publications, except for their submissions page.

But alot of the information Mundania claims says about itself, Sandryin claims the exact same information about itself.

Anyways, they told me 120 days, and I am only days away from their reply to my submission, which I am now having reworked again.

Kasey Mackenzie

03-24-2006, 02:22 AM

I'm just curious and don't mean this in an antagonistic way but...why did you submit to a publisher that you can't find anything about except for their submissions page? It makes more sense to me to research them _before_ you submit.

bloemmarc

03-24-2006, 07:10 AM

Yes, I know I realize this now, but since Dave didn't have a negative remark on them at Preadtors @ Editors, I thought it was alright.
Who knows, they could still eb alright, but nothing about them anywhere is not good, I know.

I'm just curious and don't mean this in an antagonistic way but...why did you submit to a publisher that you can't find anything about except for their submissions page? It makes more sense to me to research them _before_ you submit.

Toni1953

03-24-2006, 02:49 PM

They rejected 3 of my horror/fantasy manuscripts.

Kasey Mackenzie

03-24-2006, 07:20 PM

Yes, I know I realize this now, but since Dave didn't have a negative remark on them at Preadtors @ Editors, I thought it was alright.
Who knows, they could still eb alright, but nothing about them anywhere is not good, I know.

Gotcha! Still, better to find that out after submitting but before signing anything! Good luck with future submissions. =)

bloemmarc

03-24-2006, 07:26 PM

Thank you, you to:)

Gotcha! Still, better to find that out after submitting but before signing anything! Good luck with future submissions. =)

bloemmarc

03-24-2006, 07:27 PM

Sandrilyn did?

They rejected 3 of my horror/fantasy manuscripts.

MundaniaPress

03-29-2006, 01:39 AM

Actually, this setup is typical of POD-based publishers.

Ingram and Baker and Taylor are wholesalers, not distributors. Distributors (such as Publishers Group West) provide a sales force to sell publishers' books into stores; wholesalers don't. To gain bookstore presence--which is essential to volume sales--a small publisher needs either to field its own sales force, or work with a distributor. Otherwise, their ability to distribute--in the industry-accepted sense of getting books onto bookstore shelves--will probably be very limited.
These authors established their sales credentials with other, larger commercial houses. I suspect that their sales figures with Mundania are a fraction of their sales figures elsewhere.

Please understand that I don't intend in any way to imply that Mundania isn't an honest, well-intentioned publisher that strives to produce quality books. I'm just pointing out that, as with other small presses that rely on POD and have limited budgets for marketing and distribution, author exposure will probably be small.

- Victoria

In true fact, Ingram's is classified as a wholesaler, and Baker & Taylor are classified as a distributor--because they DO have a sales force. What you are referring to with places like Publishers Group West is a MASTER Distributor

Bob was simply explaining that POD has gotten a bad reputation in the industry.

For the record, Mundania Press uses both POD, through Ingram's and B&T, and does full press print runs (not POD) and currently uses two different Master Distributors. Which books are done in POD and which are done in print runs depends on the book, and on the author. We are also doing audio books now in MP3 downloads, MP3 CDs, Audio CDs, and Cassettes.

You are incorrect when you speculate about sales figures for best selling authors. For example, we do not have the Xanth series, although we are in the midst of securing the audiobook rights for the whole series, but we are the top seller for Piers Anthony's other books, many of which are originals with us. We are both reprinting the NYT best selling authors' books, and they are writing new ones for us.

We will be moving more titles from POD to press runs and moving those sales to our Master Distributors. We've only been around for 3 1/2 years, but we have 120 books in print already.

Dan

JennaGlatzer

03-29-2006, 03:29 AM

JennaGlatzer

03-29-2006, 03:57 AM

My curiosity is getting the best of me (not to mention that I'm avoiding work right now), so I'm digging around a little, and this is what I'm seeing so far...

I'm using Borders' "search inventory" function, and have chosen 6 large stores in New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut as my sampling. Then I'm choosing titles randomly from your site and seeing where they're in stock. My results so far:

Time of the Wolf: Not stocked in any of the six

Tyrant Moon: Not stocked in any of the six

A Separate Power: Not stocked in any of the six

The Coming of the Horseclans: Not yet listed in search

The Angelic Prophecy: Not yet listed in search

Trattoria: Not stocked in any of the six

Amanda's Rib: Not stocked in any of the six

Twice Damned: Not stocked in any of the six

King of Harlem: Not stocked in any of the six

etc.

I know some of your authors personally-- and I know they're talented. And I coincidentally just put a Mundania book on my "wish list" last week because I loved one of your author's blogs. My only question has been distribution/sales. I'd like to have a more accurate understanding so I know how to advise writers who ask me for recommendations.

MundaniaPress

03-30-2006, 08:13 PM

Hi Dan, I've never heard the term "Master Distributor" before (and have no idea why it would be capitalized), but I'd classify both Baker & Taylor and Ingram as wholesalers. Maybe B&T can act as a distributor-- but it's usually misleading when vanity presses claim to have "distribution" through "the world's largest distributors, Ingram and Baker & Taylor!" So it's important for us to make that distinction here... we're trying to help new writers understand what a distributor does, as opposed to wholesalers, and why it means basically nothing to be listed with Ingram and B&T.

Now, as for Mundania, I've always had the impression that you guys are POD. Respectable POD with a selection process, but POD nonetheless, with many of the inherent problems that other POD-based presses have-- translating primarily to lack of bookstore distribution and low sales. But I could certainly be wrong.

Would you answer a few questions for me? And I honestly don't mean this to be antagonistic-- I'm just trying to figure out if my impressions are wrong.

-Are the majority of Mundania's titles in bookstores nationwide?

-Do the majority of Mundania's titles sell at least 2,000 copies?

-Do all Mundania titles have an active sales force (what you're calling a "master" distributor) marketing them?

Thanks in advance.

-Are the majority of Mundania's titles in bookstores nationwide?
Only a few at the moment. "The Saint's Bones" is carried in B&N and I think Borders too. This is one of our imprints and is distributed by a master distributor (who produces catalogs, has sales people, and contacts stores). Borders has also recently approved our entire erotica line (another imprint) for stocking on shelves. That literally occurred this past week. The erotic line was started in December 2005. Most are ebooks, and five have gone into print. Those five are carried.

-Do the majority of Mundania's titles sell at least 2,000 copies?
We do not release sales numbers, but generally many of our titles sell more than that number. Depends if it's a new author, or one that has a good fan base established already. New authors must do promotions, such as booksignings, etc., to get their name out there.

-Do all Mundania titles have an active sales force (what you're calling a "master" distributor) marketing them?

Master distributor is the industry standard term for the distributors that completely handle all a publisher's books. Ingram's and B&T are more databases of availability that bookstores may order from. Ingram's does produce a catalog that goes out monthly to over 20,000 brick-and-mortar bookstores and libraries. Our new releases are listed in those catalogs. Liekwise B&T has various mailings. In addition, we below to PMA (Publishers Marketing Association) which does many mailings and promotional efforts for publishers. We have had advertisements appearing in several trade magazines, such as Romantic Times, Realms of Fantasy, Cemetary Dance, Locus, etc. These all help with promotion of our books.

As I mentioned above, no, not all Mundania titles are under a master distributor. One is already out there, and we are working with another master distributor for an additional line of books. Also as I mentioned, we are planning on eventually moving all our books to a master distributor. That requires print runs on each book. Since we have over one hundred currently available, that process will take time.

We do stock directly to several Borders and Barnes & Noble stores. When an author is having a booksigning, or a reader special orders a book, we get requests to fill those orders all the time.

Yes, we are a small publisher and we've only been around for 3 1/2 years. Our business continues to grow and wit the additional of audio books, we're moving beyond the norm for a small publisher.

Unfortunately, there is an industry prejudice towards POD, created by poorly produced books early on. Most of today's POD are top quality and I would boast that all of our books' quality stacks up to anything you can find on any shelf, and many times are better. This statement is backed up by every bookstore that has seen our books.

B&N and Borders automatically mark all POD books are non-returnable, which effectively kills them for stocking, although all of our books are clearly marked returnable by books-in-print, Ingram's and B&T. It has taken a lot of effort on our part to get our books changed in their systems, but it is happening.

By the way, most Borders will have computer stands around that you can look up our books, click a button to print the one you want, and hand it to the clerk. Works like a charm.

Finally, for those authors that want to hit the "big time" with a big NY publishing house, then go for it. Many authors, especially first-timers, are finding it easier to be accepted by small publishers. Author promotion and marketing can make a big difference in the sales of a book and whether it gets requested by bookstores. It's one thing to get a book on a bookstore shelf. It's another thing to get it sold off that shelf so it doesn't end up as a return. With hundreds of thousands of books released each year, an author has a lot of competition for the reader's entertainment dollar. Arranging things like book signings, visiting libraries, starting a yahoo author group, and getting word of mouth going to spread the fact that you (and your book) exist go a long way to increasing book sales. We see this all the time as the authors who actively promote their books have sales much higher then those who sit back and do nothing. Even the big publishing houses no longer put huge budgets for ads and author tours behind every book. An author could find that their next book won't be accepted as the first one didn't sell well.

I hope this answers your questions.

Dan

victoriastrauss

03-30-2006, 08:49 PM

I'd never heard of a "master distributor" either. From the research I've been able to do, it seems to be a term that's common in other industries (for instance, medical supplies and software), and means a distributor that sells to other distributors. Apparently it came into use in publishing because so many people didn't know the difference between a wholesaler and a distributor, and were using the terms interchangeably. So "master distributor" is just a more elaborate way of saying "distributor." It seems to be used mainly by small presses and self-publishers.

Dan, thanks for your responses.

- Victoria

Lauri B

03-30-2006, 08:56 PM

I can't find any Mundania Press books listed in Bookscan.

MundaniaPress

04-09-2006, 03:02 AM

I can't find any Mundania Press books listed in Bookscan.

We have not participated in Bookscan. We are listed in Books-in-Print. And of course, all of our books are listed on our website (http://www.mundania.com) and can be found at Amazon.com and many other bookseller sites.

Jennifer Robins

04-27-2006, 10:54 PM

Some have mentioned here the rankings on amazon. Because I am a guest at times on two nationally broadcast radio shows, my rankings soured back in Jan. down to 80,000 for my book Ghostly Antiques. I am looking to have it released from PA soon, but in the mean time I have another novel I want to submit to another publisher. I am looking here at Mundania, but have to be sure this time, not to make another mistake. I work very hard to promote my books have spent thousands of dollars, and want some kind of help from the publisher. After all, they are making money on my book. More even than I am.

Jennifer Robins

Toni1953

04-27-2006, 11:36 PM

Sandrilyn did?

Mundania.

Glenda

04-28-2006, 05:50 PM

I know some of your authors personally-- and I know they're talented. And I coincidentally just put a Mundania book on my "wish list" last week because I loved one of your author's blogs. My only question has been distribution/sales. I'd like to have a more accurate understanding so I know how to advise writers who ask me for recommendations.

Jenna, I've been looking into Mundania. The best source on how a publisher really works is the authors. If you can answer could I ask these questions?

1.Do you know if any of these authors have any misgivings or complaints of Mundania?

2.Do they feel being published with Mundania is worth it?

Ken Schneider

04-30-2006, 06:23 PM

We are sceptical on this site for good reasons, but, Mundania is just down the highway from me in Cincinnati, and has a good rep in my neck of the woods.

I know several authors who are quite happy with what they receive from Dan's company.

I have confidence that Piers knows what he's doing, and is satisfied. I have his e-mail addy, and have spoken with him before, and could again for his opinion. But he does publish with Mundania, and that in itself seems to speak to the answer.

I have also submitted, and been rejected early on, and plan to submit again.
It speaks to what they are feeding the reading public. The title has to be good, and that's a good place to start.

Chalk it up to growing pains, Dan. We writers North of Dayton appreciate your efforts in our territory.

Mundania books are shelved in our region. If that makes Mundania a regional, stocking, small, publisher, then choose wisely when submitting if your name isn't Piers.

Ken.

Jennifer Robins

05-01-2006, 10:17 PM

Birol

05-01-2006, 10:27 PM

Did you check their guidelines?

rugcat

05-01-2006, 10:30 PM

What version of WordPefect do you have?

In most, if you go into your document, click file, then 'save as...,' your list of files comes up. At the bottom is File Types, and you can save it as a separate MS Word, Rich Text, or other file. It won't affect your original file. If you don't have Word, you won't be able to open the new file, but you can send it to others.

I would test it out first with someone who has Word to make sure the format hasn't been screwed up, but I've done this successfully.

MundaniaPress

05-02-2006, 12:14 AM

After looking into this company I am seriously thinking of sending them my manuscript. I have only one question; Do they accept Word Perfect. I wrote this one in Word Perfect before I got Microsoft Word and can't seem to change it over.

Jennifer Robins

Jennifer,

We don't use WordPerfect, and Microsoft Word won't open WordPerfect files. You can select SAVE AS and save your WordPerfect file into an RTF format. We can take DOC (Word) or RTF files.

Dan
Mundania Press

triceretops

05-02-2006, 02:57 AM

I didn't have any problems sending material to Mundania, and that was two or three submissions, I forget. But they did get back to me. I think I rate them on the high side of small press, one of the better ones and I've investigated about sixty of the like. I think Five Star is okay too. I don't see any real problems with Mundania. I think for as new as they are they've hit a pretty decent stride and can only get better.

Tri

Jennifer Robins

05-02-2006, 07:29 PM

Jennifer,

We don't use WordPerfect, and Microsoft Word won't open WordPerfect files. You can select SAVE AS and save your WordPerfect file into an RTF format. We can take DOC (Word) or RTF files.

Dan
Mundania Press

Okay, Dan, I think I was successful in transferring it over to word. I did send it in word perfect, but re-submitted it in Word. Hope that works. I am now using only Word for my future work.

Jennifer Robins
www.jenniferrobins.com (http://www.jenniferrobins.com)

Richard White

05-03-2006, 02:50 AM

Okay, Dan, I think I was successful in transferring it over to word. I did send it in word perfect, but re-submitted it in Word. Hope that works. I am now using only Word for my future work.

Jennifer Robins
www.jenniferrobins.com (http://www.jenniferrobins.com)

Jennifer,

As a dedicated WordPerferct user, it's very easy to save things as an .rtf (Rich Text File) in WordPerfect. Just got to "Save As" and select Rich Text File as the format to save it as. That's how I send stuff to my editor all the time.

I love how WordPerfect will easily convert Word Docs but Word can't seem to manage to recipocate. (sigh)

James D. Macdonald

05-03-2006, 06:15 AM

I use WordPerfect, and "save as" if someone needs a different file type.

Word is (IMHO) a lousy wordprocessor for a novelist, for all that it might be wonderful for a business executive who needs to write a two-page memo once a month.

Jennifer Robins

05-04-2006, 06:50 PM

Maybe it would be worth it for some of these publishers to install Word Perfect.
some do have it. I did all of my other books in Word Perfect and liked it very much. Now I'm using Microsoft Word and it's okay.

Jennifer Robins

Gillhoughly

05-04-2006, 11:29 PM

Jennifer Robins

05-05-2006, 06:00 PM

Lauri B

05-05-2006, 06:12 PM

Jennifer Robins

05-05-2006, 07:07 PM

Do you have any experience submitting to publishers? A 3-month response time for an unsolicited manuscript is moving right along, and I can't imagine a publisher who could or would turn around a manuscript to completed book in fewer than six months from contract to release, unless it's a very timely nonfiction topic whose sales are contingent on a specific release date.

I am sure you are right, but I have a horror thriller that would sell well in the fall months. I've been down this road before. I know they can and do put books out sooner. It all depends on how well known you are.

Jennifer Robins

Aconite

05-05-2006, 07:13 PM

I am sure you are right, but I have a horror thriller that would sell well in the fall months. I've been down this road before. I know they can and do put books out sooner. It all depends on how well known you are.It depends on many things besides that. You really need to understand how publishing works before you start deciding on your own what time of year the publisher should release your novel, and thinking that it's just a matter of the publisher deciding to get your book into production sooner. Do you even understand how pre-orders work, for example, or how the lack of time to market your book before release can affect its sales?

Here's the simple, hard truth: You're not going to get special treatment because you think your novel should be published in the fall. You're not going to get a good publisher if you base your decision on how fast they'll rush you to print. And you need to learn much, much more about publishing before you can make good decisions. May I recommend you begin by reading the thread called "How Real Publishing Works" at the top of this forum?

Gillhoughly

05-05-2006, 07:43 PM

There's time in the regular world and time as marked in publishing.

In August 2004 my agent got a publisher to consider an anthology proposal from me.

Moving at warp speed they accepted the proposal, then over the next 6 months I contacted potential tribbers. By spring they had their contracts signed and by summer of 2005 the first story was turned in. Trust me, this is exceptional speed on everyone's part!

By January of 2006 the last story was turned in. (Late--the writer was busy.)

By April 2006 I was looking over the galleys for my story. Just this week the last writer turned in her corrections. (She was busy, too!)

The collection won't be released until October 2006.

THAT'S moving really fast! I lucked out that they liked the idea and had an opening in their schedule. The book would have been perfect for a June release, but the publishers just couldn't swing it. Not wouldn't--couldn't.

Some publishers are able to get a topical non-fiction book out in a month, but the rest move much, much slower.

Their schedules are blocked out up to 2 years (maybe more) in advance. Though you may have a fantastic, wonderful idea and it would be perfect for a certain time of the year release, they have to fit it in far, far down the road from where you'd like. If it's perfect for Halloween 2006, they will more likely slot it in for H. 2008.

That shiny "new" release that you spot on the racks today was turned in from 12-36 months ago.

(This is why I never follow publishing "trends." By the time the book is finished so is the trend and they're on to a new flavor of the month. So everyone shelve their Da Vinci Code-inspired thrillers, in a couple months it's gonna be something else, 'cause the public will be sick of them.)

When I turned a book in a few months late I missed MY slot in the schedule, which was filled up with a different book by a writer who did meet his deadline. My book was rescheduled for a year later--because another writer turned *his* book in late, opening a hole for me!

It's screwy and frustrating, but how the big-time print publishing world works.

On the up side--it's where the money is,so I DON'T mind!! http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif

Lauri B

05-05-2006, 07:43 PM

MundaniaPress

05-05-2006, 08:18 PM

Mundania: "We pay 15% net on print copies, and 50% net on eBooks"

NET means you get 15% and 50% of the PROFIT on a book. What if it makes no profit?

Other publishers give a percentage of the COVER price. That is industry standard as I know it.

Once the bean counters are done some projects NEVER make a profit--just ask the Forrest Gump bunch about that.

Ask Mundania to swap the word "net" with "cover price" on the contract and see what happens.

I nearly signed a film contract where the boiler plate had "net" where "gross" should have been. Thankfully a lawyer friend found that fine point and saved me from all kinds of grief.

Try going with a publisher who pays a real advance and provides a percentage of the cover price. That's easier to track!

You are incorrectly making assumptions. Our contract is posted on our website for the public to view BEFORE they submit, and of course, there is always a printed version with the exact specifications that can be examined BEFORE signing.

No where in our contract does it say PROFIT. Nothing is based on profit. Net sales means net sales--the net amount of money we receive in our hands. we do not take out any "fees" of any kind. When we sell a book for full retail off our website, then, in effect, the 15% on print and 50% on eBook *IS* off the cover price, because that is how much money we received. If we sell a book to a bookstore or distributor and they take 40-60%, then whatever money we get in our hands, we split with the author--they get 15% of every dollar that comes in. The only small presses that pay strictly off cover price are those that ONLY sell on their websites for full retail. We could do that, but we'd sell a heck of a lot less books then. By selling through wholesalers, and on Amazon, etc., there are a LOT more books sold, but those companies grab a big chunk of the money.

Since we never sell a book at a loss, that means we will ALLOWS make some money off every book sold, and that means the author gets their cut of that money.

Example: A book sells for $10.00. If we sell it off the website for full retail, the author gets $1.50 (15%). If we sell their eBook for $6.00, the author gets $3.00 (50%). If we sell their eBook through FictionWise that takes 50% off the top of the sale, that means we get $3.00 cash in our hands. The author gets half of that ($1.50). If we sell a print copy through Ingram's, which takes close to 60% after discounts, etc., that means they will put $4.00 in our hands, and the author gets 60 cents (15%). Yes, it is a lot less than if we sell it directly, but the middlemen and bookstores always take the lion's share of money.

As a small press, we do not have deep pockets. That's a fact of life. However, we always attempt to be as fair as possible with our authors--and still be able to stay in business.

You don't take into consideration the many hundreds of dollars of real hard cash that publishers pay out upfront to invest in your book. Cover art ain't cheap. Neither are editors, typesettings, rent, electricity, computers, software, taxes, shopping cart fees, merchant account fees, printer upload fees, and on and on and on. THAT'S why it is important for a publisher to make a profit--so they can STAY in business, and PAY all those costs, and INVEST in the next book that they take in.

It's a business. Our contract is fair to the author and it is fair to us. Even if we take in a book and it ends up bombing and only selling one copy its entire lifespan, that author will STILL receive 15% of the money we got in hand for that one sale. We eat all the rest of the costs. That's about as fair as we can get.

The only way any author would truly understand the publisher's viewpoint, and what they have to put up with, is to become a publisher--or to self-publish their own book. Go out and buy a block of 10 ISBNS for several hundred dollars. Pay a cover artist several hundred dollars to design your cover (a cover that you'll never even own). Pay an editor hundreds of dollars to properly edit your book. Buy advertising to let people know you and your book even exist. It goes on and on.

A publisher is like a bank giving you a loan. We're investing in your book in hopes that we BOTH can make money on it. If we don't then the publisher is the one that loses money, not the author. The author can always take their book and simply go elsewhere and they haven't lost a dime in all the prep work to publish it.

Sorry for rambling, but the author needs to be educated on what the business end of publishing is all about so they can be realistic in their demands with publishers. Yes, a publisher needs to be fair with an author. Yes, both the author and the publisher need to make money. The only way that happens is if the book SELLS. And that happens when the publisher produces a good work and gets it out there and the author generates enough interest and a good fan base so people will buy their book and tell other people about it.

Publishers and authors are really partners in the endeavor, and our authors make money on every single book that we sell. Regardless of how much money is put into our hands, the author always gets his/her cut of that money. Always.

Piers Anthony is one of our authors, that is true, but let me tell you that he pulls no punches with us and treats us exactly the same way as he treats every other publisher he has. He maintains a site that rates publishers.

He had this to say about our publication contract:

"Their sample contract has plain-English explanation of what the legalese language means. They take electronic, hardcover, and trade paperback rights for two years; it can be canceled thereafter on a month's notice. Royalties: 50% electronic, 15% on hard copies, paid quarterly, based on what they get. There is a good audit clause. You might want to look at these explanations when considering the contract of some other publisher, as the legaleze is similar."

Piers specifically told us that we have a good contract that is fair to our authors, and holds it up as an example to other publishers.

Yes, we could change our contracts to read "cover price: but then we'd be paying the same rates as NYC firms, down in the 5-8% range. It all works out in the end, and the bottom line is that our authors receive payment for every book that is sold. As our partners, they receive 15% to 50% of every dollar that comes in our doors. We can't be fairer than that and still be in business.

Yes, you can go with a publisher who pays an advance and a percentage of the cover, but then you are talking going with one of the big NYC firms and that means having an agent and striking gold to get published. You always have a better shot at getting accepted by a small press. You have to trade off things sometimes. Get accepted faster (or at all) with a small press, but because they don't have deep pockets, you won't be sent on a nation-wide booksigning tour and have a DaVinci Code/Harry Potter-type advertisting budget. Or try for the brass ring and be the next DaVinci or Potter author. Best of luck!

I hope this addresses your concerns. If you have any other specific questions, please let me know.

Dan

MundaniaPress

05-05-2006, 08:29 PM

That's right. They do say profit. I sent them my novel Jeffrey and If they want to publish it, they will have to change that. I also noted in their guidelines that it could take up to 120 days or more to respond. That's too long. If I don't hear from them in a few weeks, I'll just forget it. I have sent it to others so we will see who answers sooner. I would like to see Jeffrey out by the end of this year. Now, that may not happen, but it would be good if I could announce it's coming out for Halloween on the radio shows I will be on.

Jennifer Robins

Jennifer,

No, we DON'T say profit. Please re-read our contract, which is put up for inspection on our website.

We say exactly this:
Section 8. Royalty Commissions

In compensation for this grant of rights, the PUBLISHER hereby agrees to pay AUTHOR the following Royalty Commissions:

50% of Net Sales from the sale of all electronic editions of the WORK.
15% of Net Sales from the sale of all bound printed editions of the WORK.
Net sales are defined as the Total Dollar amount that is actually received by the PUBLISHER from the wholesale or retail sale of the WORK minus the Total Dollar amount of any Returns of the WORK. Wholesale amounts vary with each wholesaler/distributor. Consignment placements are not considered sales until PUBLISHER receives payment. AUTHOR will receive no royalties on copies of WORK considered complimentary, i.e., those used for charitable, advertising, and review purposes.

============================================

This talks about your share of the sales—called royalties. You will receive a percentage of every book sold and paid for. The percentages are listed above. Your book may be sold directly by us, in which case it will be for cover price, or a small (10-25%) discount, and you'll make the most royalties. If we wholesale the book, like through Ingram's or Baker & Taylor, they take a hefty chunk off the top (their 'discount') and your royalty is the percent of the money we actually receive for the book. When books are placed with a wholesaler or bookseller to sell, no royalties are paid until we receive payment. Wholesalers take 4 to 6 months to pay for a sold book. Some bookstores, who order directly from us, can take upwards of a year to pay! Once payment from wholesalers or bookstores is received, it will go into that quarter's royalty report and royalties will be paid. Also if we give copies of the book away, for example to a reviewer, no money is received so no royalties are paid.

Dan

MundaniaPress

05-05-2006, 08:35 PM

I also noted in their guidelines that it could take up to 120 days or more to respond. That's too long. If I don't hear from them in a few weeks, I'll just forget it. I have sent it to others so we will see who answers sooner. I would like to see Jeffrey out by the end of this year. Now, that may not happen, but it would be good if I could announce it's coming out for Halloween on the radio shows I will be on.

Jennifer Robins
We now receive 350-400 unsolicited full novel manuscripts per month. And now that we are publishing short stories and novellas, we receive upwards of 100 or more of those a month. I expect that to climb. We only have a hand full of editors that are reviewing all the submissions and we want to take the time to properly evaluate each manuscript to give the author a fair review of his/her work, and to provide them with a timely answer. 90-120 days is about the best we can do. And that's mostly because of the backlog. It might be two months before your book even enters the review process. Sorry, just a fact of life.

You might submit to a newer publisher that doesn't receive as many submissions, or you might go for the whole shebang and submit to a big NYC firm. Then you'll be waiting a year or longer to hear back. At least that is what authors have told me before.

Another point: If your book was accepted today, our publication schedule is booked solid through late 2007, so it would be over a year before it would be published. If a book would sell well in a certain time period, we'd work to get it scheduled for then as best as possible.

Dan

Jennifer Robins

05-05-2006, 08:40 PM

Hi Jennifer,
Most books that have a fall release (in bookstores anywhere from mid August to mid winter, actually) will have been in a publisher's catalog since the previous spring. Generally the manuscript has been in process for close to a year. While you're right, some publishers can rush a manuscript onto shelves, it is almost always rushed only by a few months--the book has already been in production. There is no benefit to anyone--publisher or author--if a book is put out in a rush, simply because half of the success of a book is determined by pre-publication buzz, and then by reviews of the book immediately on publication. So while you may have a book that would sell quite well at Halloween, a publisher will also hope it sells well the rest of the year, too, and will want to make sure they have a marketing plan in place to present the book to its best possible advantage.

This is all true and I'm not apposed to waiting, but I know authors who have had their books out in a 6 month time. I know a lot depends on certain things. I now have a good following from the books I have had out and I am asked all the time, "when is the next one coming out?" So, all I can do is be hopefull that I can get this next one on the market soon. I'm also pressured at times by the radio shows that have me on from time to time. The producer of one of them has even tried to help me find a publisher. It's crazy.
As far as my books selling all year around, I have no trouble with that. I write about the paranormal/supernatural, like those of Stephen King and Koontz and people love them. I still have a lot to learn and I'm open for all and any suggestions.

Jennifer Robins

Sheryl Nantus

05-05-2006, 08:50 PM

This is all true and I'm not apposed to waiting, but I know authors who have had their books out in a 6 month time.

from reliable publishers?

I somehow doubt that...

as for me, I signed with Mundania in August of 2005 and expect my book to be out in 2007. I waited eight months to go through the review process. I don't think you're going to get a faster reaction from any other publisher, even if you have an audience.

NO publisher worth their salt is going to be able to pump out a book within six months, no matter WHO the author is. There's cover design, promotion and getting the book into catalogs to start with... and oh, yes, the editing part of the entire thing. I just don't think it's possible.

Sassenach

05-05-2006, 09:11 PM

This is all true and I'm not apposed to waiting, but I know authors who have had their books out in a 6 month time. I know a lot depends on certain things. I now have a good following from the books I have had out and I am asked all the time, "when is the next one coming out?" So, all I can do is be hopefull that I can get this next one on the market soon. I'm also pressured at times by the radio shows that have me on from time to time. The producer of one of them has even tried to help me find a publisher. It's crazy.
As far as my books selling all year around, I have no trouble with that. I write about the paranormal/supernatural, like those of Stephen King and Koontz and people love them. I still have a lot to learn and I'm open for all and any suggestions.

Jennifer Robins

I'd suggest that it's thinking like that led you to PA. No reputable publisher is going to respond in a couple of weeks.

Unless the producer of the radio show has connections with reputable publishers, that is indeed crazy.

Jennifer Robins

05-05-2006, 11:22 PM

I'd suggest that it's thinking like that led you to PA. No reputable publisher is going to respond in a couple of weeks.

Unless the producer of the radio show has connections with reputable publishers, that is indeed crazy.

I'm not happy with PA but your wrong about the time with them. I waited 21 months for my second book to come out.
Look, none of you are telling me something I dont already know. I still think there is a chance for me to get something out sooner than 2 years. Can't blame me for trying.

Jennifer Robins

Kasey Mackenzie

05-05-2006, 11:35 PM

There's a world of difference between "sooner than 2 years" and this fall...i.e. 4-5 months from now.

Sheryl Nantus

05-06-2006, 12:01 AM

using PA as an example of a publisher's timetable just isn't logical. Or intelligent.

that's how PA started this silliness of "no editing" options and all the other junk they peddle to their victims - just because you waited 21 months for your second book means NOTHING in the legitimate publishing world.

I'm still wondering about these other authors you claim who got published in six months or less...

when I worked for Penguin Books Canada back a thousand years ago there was at *least* a year between signing a contract and the book seeing the light of day. There were cover designs to be considered, contracted and created; there were salespeople pushing the new book either as part of a current line or as a stand-alone and getting pics for the catalogue and plugging it to the bookstores by designing displays and the like... oh, and the editor had to actually EDIT the book and get it back to the author, usually by courier. And most editors had more than just one book to work on, making it a very busy place.

no one's blaming you for being optimistic that you can get a book out in less than two years, but to decide that you're going to set up an unrealistic response timetable for Mundania and elsewhere is a bit much to handle. Ask anyone who's sent out a hundred queries and waited months for a reply; ask anyone here who's sent out manscripts either partials or whole to agents who wanted to look them over and then waited months more; ask anyone here who's gone through the process with a reputable publisher and two years is a darned conservative estimate.

be optimistic, but also be realistic.

Gillhoughly

05-06-2006, 02:05 AM

"Yes, you can go with a publisher who pays an advance and a percentage of the cover, but then you are talking going with one of the big NYC firms and that means having an agent and striking gold to get published. You always have a better shot at getting accepted by a small press. You have to trade off things sometimes. Get accepted faster (or at all) with a small press, but because they don't have deep pockets, you won't be sent on a nation-wide booksigning tour and have a DaVinci Code/Harry Potter-type advertisting budget. Or try for the brass ring and be the next DaVinci or Potter author. Best of luck!"

As it happens my first book sold right off the slush pile to one of those big NYC firms. No agent, just three chapters and an outline, same as all the other hopefuls. I was in agony for six weeks while they looked over the whole MS. But it DID happen and proved that though intimidating, it's not impossible to make such a sale.

They offered me a 6-book contract right out of the gate. I got an agent sometime after turning in my 4th novel so he could negotiate my next contract. Big as the NYC house is, it has never sent me on a book tour, and I do all of my own promotion. Only after signing a hardcover deal on my 11th title for them were they even interested in having a publicity photo of me. I'm presently mid-list, but grateful for it as it's more than most ever get. I'm not into trading off, but that's my choice.

Previous to that I did send my 1st MS to several small presses. The one that did want to sign me went bankrupt. These days small presses spring up and vanish like mushrooms, with scam artists by the dozen making the good guys look bad. Unpleasant for the honest small presses who only want to put out a good product, make money, and enhance their standing in the community, but that's how things are right now.

I'd rather see neos erring on the side of caution and go slow to get there faster and in one piece. If that small press turns out to be one of the good guys, then everyone's happy about it. More power to ya! http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif

Jennifer Robins

05-06-2006, 02:38 AM

There's a world of difference between "sooner than 2 years" and this fall...i.e. 4-5 months from now.

if you spend the money for the writers market, you will find many publishers there who will get a book out in 4 to 6 months after acceptance.
As far as people I know, that is private. These people are in the broadcasting business and would not like it for me to divulge their names here.
I will be sending out more queries and not worry about all of this.

Bye,
Jennifer Robins

Sassenach

05-06-2006, 02:49 AM

if you spend the money for the writers market, you will find many publishers there who will get a book out in 4 to 6 months after acceptance.
As far as people I know, that is private. These people are in the broadcasting business and would not like it for me to divulge their names here.
I will be sending out more queries and not worry about all of this.

Bye,
Jennifer Robins

What's private--the names of these broadcasters? Aren't they the 'pay for play' types many PA'er appeared on?

Sheryl Nantus

05-06-2006, 02:55 AM

well, *I've* got a copy of the Writers Market (that doesn't have PA in it, btw) and NOWHERE does it state that a publisher will guarantee that they'll have your book on the shelves within 6 months of acceptance. It'd be stupid for any company to make such a statement, given the industry. Since we both seem to have copies, why not tell me the names of these publishers and the pages they appear on in the latest edition, okay?

and who in the broadcasting industry knows more about the publishing industry than those, here, who PUBLISH the books?

you've got a great resource here in this board and you're ignoring it all for what some internet pay-to-play radio host babbles? Think about it...

really, you need to get your head out of your tush and do your research. If not, then going with PublishAmerica may end up as the least of your missteps as a writer.

Jennifer Robins

05-06-2006, 04:09 AM

What's private--the names of these broadcasters? Aren't they the 'pay for play' types many PA'er appeared on?

No they are not. If you go to my webosite and read the guest book you will have an idea. I have also been a guest on Xzone.com. You can find my interview in their archives for April.
www.jenniferrobins.com (http://www.jenniferrobins.com)

Kasey Mackenzie

05-06-2006, 06:55 AM

if you spend the money for the writers market, you will find many publishers there who will get a book out in 4 to 6 months after acceptance.

I choose not to spend money on writers market because I prefer to submit to large, reputable publishers and agencies which I can find plenty of information about for free. As for the publishers who will get a book out in 4 to 6 months after acceptance, I also prefer not to pay to publish.

Ken Schneider

05-08-2006, 12:55 AM

Some writers, because of age, don't have time to wait to see a book come out.http://absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gifIf they take a stand such as this, then they should go the self-pub route.

Sorry Jen, no publisher is going to rush a book. If your getting your hopes up for a rush job, pull them back down.

Enjoyed seeing you last year at the Mid-West book fest.

Ken

MundaniaPress

05-13-2006, 03:59 AM

MundaniaPress

05-19-2006, 01:47 AM

Okay, I'm growling a bit here and feel the need to respond. I don't mean to slam Mundania (nor you, Dan.) I think Mundania is easily the best POD publisher out there, but some of the spin you guys put on things is, well, to be frank, misleading to me. Here's some of the things I find out of whack:

1) I'm a little troubled by the quote above. Here's something else Piers said about Mundania:
"No, I'm not running it, but have a financial interest in it."

If he invested capital in Mundania to publish his prior novels (Pornucopia in particular), then he's not an unbiased opinion and as such, really shouldn't be alluded to as unbiased as in bold above. He clearly states on his web site he has a financial interest in Mundania Press. And not only that, but look at his bibliography: http://www.hipiers.com/bibliography.html That leads me to point 2.

2) The bestselling authors you list didn't get that way through Mundania, and while it's great your reviving some of their old works and even new ones (like Piers), I think a new writer needs to know that going through Mundania, which is POD to my understanding, means no bookstores (unless author can talk a few into it) and no big reviews by Publisher's Weekly, Booklist, etc. Mr. Anthony's best numbers are from Tor, not Mundania, and that's how he became a best seller. Yes, Mundania's only been around since 2002, but it still gives an impression they've got bestselling books (as adjudged by NY Times bestseller list), and I don't see any.

3) Mundania' website says they're a "traditional publisher", but every time they say it, they have quotation marks. It's contrary to prior prior statements. In one interview in August, 2004, Mr. Sanders says "Mundania Press is working with Lightning Source to remove this negative press (the neg. press was on POD in general, not Mundania of course). We achieve excellent results using POD processes." http://www.gottawritenetwork.com/mundania.html

I'm sorry, but I have to say it. POD is POD. Right or wrong, both stores and well-known reviewers avoid POD outright. Even if the author has a great book, it's going to have very little shelf life as a POD. That's probably hurting Mundania more than anything. If you did just small print runs and then marketed them to the stores, you could probably change the rep as being a POD publisher, because let's face it, I don't think anybody's going to change the rep of POD in general, at least not any time soon, and it's probably not only hurting sales, but you're also missing out on books because writers are steering away from POD. That's my opinion, but seems self-evident, though I acknowledge I don't know the costs involved in an initial print run and they may be such to preclude such action and maintain an "in the black" status end of year. Bottom line, though, people hear POD and steer clear.

Again, I'm not slamming Mundania. If an author is unable to land a traditional contract with a larger house, POD still can give it some life and Mundania is a good publisher, but just be aware of what your getting into. Don't expect bookstores to jump at either stocking or hosting a book signing for a print on demand book. Most just won't be interested. And when you hear hype, look into it. I know Mundania works hard to keep their good name, but sometimes I think they leave the waters a little muddled. I didn't think Piers' quote was appropriate, nor do I think putting traditional into quotations somehow makes "traditional" take on a different meaning than traditional. If a book is published upon each individual book order, that's POD, and shouldn't be confused with traditional.
And P.S. - The Magic Fart? I know it's comedic and from a best-selling author, but good grief.

OK, let me take your message point-by-point after I make another point. Many people, such as you, use POD as a negative term. Publishers using that technology--and it is ONLY a printing technology--are given what is attempted to be a derogatory term "POD Publisher." Print-on-demand is a printing technology as is offset press. Print-on-demand is a new(er) method using computer technology which can literally print books as needed, thereby cutting down on the waste (since almost half of a print run is wasted) and cutting down on inventory--which is especially important for a small publisher who does not have the extra funds and the extra room for storing thousands of copies of books waiting for them to sell. You might be surprised to know that many larger publishing houses, such as Random House, use print-on-demand technology for some of their backlist books. In fact, there was a recent article in Publishers Weekly that stated that most of the larger publishing houses were considering print-on-demand for their backlist, as it will keep those books in print much longer than an initial print run. And this is particularly true because of the loss of the recent lawsuit. That will open the doors for print-on-demand technology to be used to print books without worrying about lawsuits. As it is now, when a print run is done, unless it sells out, the book is never printed again. Returned copies are destroyed (as only the covers are returned in the case of mass-market paperbacks). Because of vast improvements in technology, a good quality (good cover with lamination, fine paper, etc.) trade paperback produced by print-on-demand is virtually indistinguishable from an offset printed version. I know because we do both.

Yes, you heard correctly. We use both print-on-demand and offset press to print our books. Many of our books are done with print-on-demand, while more and more are being moved to offset press. The reason for this is multifold. a) Offset is certainly cheaper than print-on-demand. b) We are now using two distributors (also referred to as master distributor) to market, sell, and distribute some of our books. c) Bookstores like Barnes & Noble usually distain print-on-demand, mostly because early versions were poor quality and non-returnable. However, many bookstores are also changing their minds for print-on-demand that are returnable (and of good quality). A case in point is our erotic imprint, Phaze, has been accepted by Borders and now sits on Borders shelves--and they are printed using print-on-demand.

It is important that you truly understand all the facts before you make statements about us "putting a spin" on things and "misleading" people, including yourself. While we are not going to reveal confidential and proprietary information on this list, we have never attempted to mislead or put any spin on anything. All we have done is to attempt to explain the misunderstandings about print-on-demand that many people, including you, have about the printing method.

For a small publisher, as I have mentioned above, using print-on-demand technology makes a lot of sense. I've already gone over those reasons above (low inventory, low output of initial funds). Using print-on-demand allows a publisher to accept and publish more books and to put more money into artwork, editing, ads, etc.

Lightning Source is a print-on-demand printer (and oh, by the way, at BEA Lightning Source is introducing their offset printer program too--so you will no longer be able to "identify" what the printing technology is simply by knowing that Lightning Source printed the book).

Lightning Source does a VERY good job on all their books. We have received tons of praise about all our books and have never received one complaint or comment about their quality.

Lightning Source, being owned by Ingram's, gives a small publisher the "in" it needs to be distributed/wholesaled by Ingram's, something that most small publishers would NOT be able to do on their own if they used offset printing and tried to open an Ingram's account on their own. Why? Because Ingram's demands 55% discount, plus the publisher pays for shipping, plus the publisher pays for returns shipping, plus the publisher must maintain OVER $15,000 in wholesale sales PER TITLE or be dropped by Ingram's (or continue with a much larger discount (60-75%). Most small publishers don't sell $35,000 per book per month, which is what is needed to maintain the $15,000 (55%) wholesale requirements.

I hate to say it, but many authors have no clue as to all the stuff that publishers need to put up with when dealing with booksellers, printers, and distributors. Most feel the publishers sit back and rake in tons of cash while doling out tidbits to the authors. Taking into account our startup costs on a general book, on most books the authors actually make more "profit." I won't go into financial details, but trust me, this is generally true, especially when the publisher does print. That's why many small publishers will only do eBooks as the costs are much lower and the profits are higher.

Well enough on the soapbox. Let me address your points:

1) We are not responsible for the way Piers Anthony words his comments. Yes, he does have a financial interest in our company, just the same as every other author does. That's because we pay him a high amount of royalties every quarter. We have a few other authors that do earn as much as he does, but the majority of our authors do not. The ones that do are out hustling and selling.

Quoting you: "If he invested capital in Mundania to publish his prior novels"

Who said that? Piers didn't. Mundania Press was founded by me and Bob Sanders, and we each put in the money to start the company. Bob and I own Mundania Press, lock, stock, and bookshelf. No one else owns any piece of the company at all. Bob and I continue to own 100% of Mundania, Phaze, and New Classics Press.

2) Quoting you: The bestselling authors you list didn't get that way through Mundania, and while it's great your reviving some of their old works and even new ones (like Piers), I think a new writer needs to know that going through Mundania, which is POD to my understanding, means no bookstores (unless author can talk a few into it) and no big reviews by Publisher's Weekly, Booklist, etc. Mr. Anthony's best numbers are from Tor, not Mundania, and that's how he became a best seller. Yes, Mundania's only been around since 2002, but it still gives an impression they've got bestselling books (as adjudged by NY Times bestseller list), and I don't see any.

Again you are misquoting and taking things out of context and drawing invalid conclusions. We have NEVER stated that any books we have are currently on the New York Times bestseller list. We stated, and it is true, that we now have authors that HAVE been on the New York Times bestseller list. That is something we are proud of, because frankly, most other small publishers DO NOT have best selling authors. Yes, we ARE re-publishing the bestselling authors' bestselling books. We've never denied that. The point here is that these authors TRUST Mundania enough to sign contracts with us. That alone speaks volumes for us. Wildside Press and Meisha Merlin are the other small publishers that come to mind that have acquired bestselling authors and are putting their books back into print.

Another point that you are missing though is that many of these authors are also contracting with us for NEWLY written books. Don Callander has given us his 'Mancer series (Pyromancer, Aquamancer, Geomancer, Aeromancer, and Marbleheart), his Companion series (Dragon Companion, Dragon Hunt, Dragon Tempest), and his Warlock's Bar & Grill that he self-published at Xlibris (which IS partially owned by Piers Anthony AND Random House). All of the above, with the exception of Warlock, was on the New York Times bestseller list. For your information, Don is writing a fourth book in the Companion series, a sixth book in the 'Mancer series, a sequel to Warlock, and two brand new novels--all of which Mundania will be publishing. And yes, we hope they will make it to the bestseller list.

Piers Anthony has given us reprint rights to Pornucopia, Macroscope, Omnivore, Orn, OX, and along with Robert Margroff, reprint rights to the Kelvin series (Dragon's Gold, Serpent's Silver, Chimaera's Copper, Orc's Opal, and Mouvar's Magic). Piers has also given us brand new books, Key to Havoc, Key to Chroma, Key to Destiny, Key to Liberty, The Magic Fart, and Tortoise Reform. Piers has NOT paid us to print his books. The money is coming out of my pocket, regardless of the way Piers has phrased it on his website. (By the way, I asked him about that--I've spent time with him in his home a few times--and he just shrugged and said it's true as we pay him money.) He simply meant that other authors may not make as much as he does, or may not make much money at all, and that is true too. His name draws a lot of sales alone. Also his comment was made when we were brand new and had never published any book yet.

Anne Logston has given us her 11 novels to reprint, all of which were on the New York Times bestseller list. She is working on ideas for new books as well.

Louise Cooper has given us 12 of her novels to reprint, and several of these have been rewritten by Louise. She has also written some new short stories for us.

We have all of Robert Adams' novels. His Coming of the Horseclans sold 3 million copies when it was released. Unfortunately, Robert passed away in 1990, so there won't be any new ones coming from him. Since he co-authored with Andre Norton, we were in talks with Andre and her agent about reprint rights when Andre passed away suddenly. So for now the talks are on hold.

My point here is that, yes, these authors well already bestsellers when they came to Mundania. We did not make them bestsellers. But your message twists what we have said to make it SOUND as if we made them bestsellers. We've never said that and for you to imply it is simply wrong. Our "message" is that these (already) bestseller authors have contacted and contracted with Mundania Press because they believe in what we are doing. They know we're an honest, hardworking small publisher and they feel they have a good chance of making money on their old books as well as their new ones. THAT's what we are saying. Will any new author that comes with us become a bestseller? The odds are against them, but if they do enough promotion, enough hustling, and build a big enough fan base, then anything can happen. Look at Christopher Paolini's Eragon. His dad started a small publisher just to publish that book and he was "discovered" after that. A bit of trivia that is related, when Christopher was offered a contract (with a $50K advance), he corresponded with Piers Antony, who told him to get an agent--who should be able to get a better offer. Christopher did and his agent got him a $250,000 advance and a guarantee for additional books--and now Eragon is being made into a movie.

It is unfair of you to single out small publishers in general, and us specifically, to warn authors away. We do have non-bestselling authors that make good money from us, and some of them do have books on shelves nationwide.

3) Quoting you: Mundania' website says they're a "traditional publisher"

We use the quotes because we want people to try to understand what this means. We ARE a traditional publisher. We are not a subsidy or vanity publisher. We review manuscripts (we receive between 350-400 a month now), and we accept only the best to be published. As a traditional publisher, the author never pays anything to be published. We pay everything--even for Piers Anthony. We do not normally pay advances, although we do pay advances to some of our authors. We do pay above average (when compared to the New York houses) for royalties. And what technology we use to print our books HAS NOTHING to do with who we are or how we do business. POD does not define a publisher--that's a popular misconception that you share with a lot of people. All we are trying to do is to educate people/authors to understand that print-on-demand is a technology to print books, not a way of life or a way to conduct business.

As I mentioned earlier, we do use print-on-demand for many of our books, as well as now using offset for select books that are going through distributors (not Ingram's or Baker & Taylor). We are using two different distributors, one for Mundania and one for New Classics Press. New Classics has one book, The Saints Bones, which was a print run, and is stocked in Barnes and Noble and Borders. I also mentioned that all of our Phaze print titles are now on Borders shelves, even though they are currently printed via print-on-demand. We're using another distributor for some new Mundania titles coming out that are also done in print runs using offset.

Quoting you: I'm sorry, but I have to say it. POD is POD. Right or wrong, both stores and well-known reviewers avoid POD outright.

Wow, you could not be more wrong. Again you are simply making assumptions on rumors that you've heard. Our books are reviewed in Romantic Times, Locus, and several other magazines, as well as having "well-known" reviewers reviewing them. Reviewers don't give a rat's behind how a book is printed. In fact, I'll be willing to bet you that I could place two books, one print-on-demand and one offset printed into a reviewer's hands and they would be hard pressed to guess which is which. And stores are also stocking print-on-demand, as long as they are returnable--and all of Mundania's titles are fully returnable, always have been.

We've had new authors reach success. Not the New York Times bestseller list of course, as we already said, but one of our authors is consistently rated around 8,000 on Amazon, and his book has been accepted reading by a half-dozen schools around the US, and that list is growing. We went back and reissued his book in hardcover because we had so much demand from libraries for it. How is this done? His book is good. The quality is good. And he hustles with booksignings and promotions for his book. Any author can do that if they are willing to roll up their sleeves and promote their book. Your job isn't done when your book is done.

Quoting you: And P.S. - The Magic Fart? I know it's comedic and from a best-selling author, but good grief.

We don't name the books. The authors name them. That's the name Piers Anthony wanted for it, so that's the one that was used.

Quoting you: Again, I'm not slamming Mundania.

Sorry, but it sure looks that way. You attempt to define our company and discredit us by labeling us "POD" and knowingly announcing that our authors are paying us to publish our books because your "research" on us has given you sound bytes and quotes that you are able to twist to fit your hypothesis and pre-conceived notion of our company. Mundania Press is a traditional publisher in every sense of the word and we meet every criterion to be called traditional. You should do a LOT more research on POD to understand that it is a printing technology, not a business methodology.

Quoting you: Don't expect bookstores to jump at either stocking or hosting a book signing for a print-on-demand book. Most just won't be interested. And when you hear hype, look into it. I know Mundania works hard to keep their good name, but sometimes I think they leave the waters a little muddled. I didn't think Piers' quote was appropriate, nor do I think putting traditional into quotations somehow makes "traditional" take on a different meaning than traditional. If a book is published upon each individual book order, that's POD, and shouldn't be confused with traditional.

Again you are simply wrong. I just don't understand your confusion over this. Where do you get your information? We ship books to Barnes & Noble and Borders, along with independent bookstores ALL THE TIME for author book signings. You are once again simply making blanket statements based on your own prejudice with no facts to back you up other than your ability to twist posted sound bites. Whether we use quotes on our website or not, or whether you attempt to interpret what someone else has said in an offhand comment does not provide you with the proof you need to make wild guesses about how we operate.

Quoting you: Bottom line, though, people hear POD and steer clear.

And that is because of people like you, who post these same incorrect “warnings” over and over again, going along with the flow regardless of how you are wrong. You perpetuate the myth and misunderstandings, and make sure that POD keeps its evil connotation. When something is repeated often enough, even though it is wrong, people will believe it. All you are really doing is a disservice to authors by getting them to join the "POD is bad" party line. You should really spend some of your time reading articles from Publishers Weekly to find out more about print-on-demand technology and how all the big publishers are now eyeing it, especially since the lawsuit was dismissed. You might find in the very near future that those very same publishers that you are recommending will be using print-on-demand to keep their backlist alive and available--something that will greatly benefit every author. If an author’s book never goes out of print, it could literally sell forever.

Mundania has always gone out of its way to set the record straight and to try to educate our authors, and all authors about the reality in the publishing business. We've answered every question honestly and to the best of our ability. According to you, we’ve attempted to put a spin on certain things--which is exactly what you are guilty of doing too. You may feel your spin is more legitimate than ours, and that’s okay. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, regardless of how wrong it is.

My advice to all authors reading this list is to do your homework and don't listen to innuendoes and suppositions based on someone's pre-conceived notions about the publishing business when they don't have the true facts, nor understand what they are talking about. Research the publishing industry. Find the facts, not the myths. If you find a publisher that you want to submit your manuscript, then research them. What is their Preditors & Editors rating (we placed as the # 6 publisher this past year and are rated as RECOMMENDED). Is the publisher a good fit for your novel? What does the publisher currently sell? Maybe buy one of their books to see for yourself the quality they produce (quality inside and out). Choose the publisher that best fits with what your novel is all about. You’ll have a better chance of being publisher that way.

If anyone, ever, has any questions, please feel free to contact me directly at books@mundania.com. We’ll answer your questions swiftly and honestly. We do that because we want to stay in this business and the only way that can happen is to deal honestly and fairly with our authors.

Dan

roach

05-19-2006, 04:43 AM

Every time someone uses the term "traditional publisher" when what he means is "commercial publisher" it makes baby Zeus cry.

KAP

05-19-2006, 05:00 AM

Toughen up, Baby Zeus. :D

OneTeam OneDream

05-19-2006, 05:10 AM

Jeez, no wonder it takes so long to review submissions, he's spending all his time here. *kidding.....kidding*

triceretops

05-19-2006, 06:24 AM

James D. Macdonald

05-19-2006, 06:31 AM

Print-on-demand is a printing technology as is offset press.

This is not true.

Print-on-demand is a business model.

Digital printing is a printing technology.

The two are not equivalent.

maestrowork

05-19-2006, 08:18 AM

I'm sorry, but I have to say it. POD is POD. Right or wrong, both stores and well-known reviewers avoid POD outright. Even if the author has a great book, it's going to have very little shelf life as a POD.

Your understanding is wrong. POD (or digital printing) is a technology, not a business model. Books that use POD technologies for printing (even big houses use them) can be, and will be reviewed and be on book shelves in book stores if the publishing/business model is "traditional" -- meaning it goes through the whole editorial and production process, it pays author royalties, it offers book stores substantial discounts and return policies, etc.

James D. Macdonald

05-19-2006, 08:48 AM

maestrowork

05-19-2006, 07:39 PM

Thanks for the clarification, Uncle Jim. I think a lot of people do get the two terms mixed up -- even PUBLISHERS themselves. I certainly use them interchangeably, but would clarify whether I mean the technology or the business model.

The digitial printing technology enables the Print-on-demand model (one book at a time). However, it also allows very small print runs (fewer than 500) that would be too cost-prohibitive for offset. Most publishers (big or small presses) do NOT print one book at a time -- they may have very small press runs like 250 at a time, and they use digital.

Many publishers use digital printing first with an "unproven" book to limit cost (and loss). But if a book is proven to do well, they may go to offset for the next run.

Lightening Source is a DIGITAL printer that is now offering offset printing as well.

Mundania Press, IIRC, uses digital printing, but they're not POD. I'll let Mr. Sanders address that issue, though.

MundaniaPress

07-07-2006, 10:27 PM

This is not true.

Print-on-demand is a business model.

Digital printing is a printing technology.

The two are not equivalent.

Well, once again there are blanket statements being made that are misleading.

Publishers Weekly has articles on print-on-demand all the time. As publishers, we stay VERY CLOSE to all the sources to try to make sure we understand it all. We do.

According to Publishers Weekly, and the PMA, print-on-demand (also being referred to as publish-on-demand) IS a printing technology, first and foremost. The US Patent for PRINT-ON-DEMAND was granted for this printing technology. (You can't patent a business model!!)

Now, just like everything changes and evolves over the years, some terms get redefined or "enhanced" to reflect different ideas.

So I must grant you that term print-on-demand is ALSO used by some to refer to a business model. It wasn't originally so, as shown by the patent, but it evolved into that as time went on. Likewise, people came up with the newer "digital printing" terminology to try to better explain what it is.

POD isn't evil, however, it has gotten such a bad reputation primarily because of early POD printing. Early on it was only used by vanity and subsidy publishers, who put out poorly written, poorly edited, and poor quality books, which were usually not returnable. This is what caused the big bookstores to shun them.

However, it is a very different story now as many, many good publishers putting out great books, nicely edited, and good quality (and returnable) are using print-on-demand technology (as defined by the patent), or digital print technology (as defined by the state-of-the art, word-of-the-month people. The problem is that old prejudices die slowly.

For the record, as I've stated before, we HAVE had success in getting print-on-demand/digitally printed books PLACED ON SHELVES of B&N and Borders. Several of our books are on nationwide Border shelves, and several of our books are on select B&N shelves (usually done locally with local authors). Yes, we are still working on getting more accepted, but B&N has a policy where you can only submit a few books every so often for them to review and approve (because they get blasted with books from all the thousands of small publishers and they don't want to be too overwhelmed).

So I will grant that you are correct. Print-on-demand could be considered a business model, however, I think that people are using the reference to POD as a business model in the old derogatory term, that is, more like the vanity or subsidy press version. Print-on-demand is still foremost a technology. Renaming it to digital printing is fine. A rose by any other name....

As I've mentioned before, we use print-on-demand/digital-printing/whatever-new-term-dujour technology to print our books, and we also use offset printing to print some of our books, but print-on-demand is NOT a business model for us. It is simply one of the methods we use to print our books--it, in no way--defines who we are or how we operate.

What is the difference if I have 2,000 books printed on offset or printed digitally? Even much of the offset printing technology is now using digital files for originals. The quality will come out the same. With digital, you have the OPTION of not printing vast quantities of books that sit in a warehouse somewhere getting moldy because they never sell. Using print-on-demand technology is good for the publisher (not having to invest huge sums for a large print run), good for the environment (less trees have to die), and good for the industry, because demand is fulfilled as the demand occurs. There is no delay ordering a print-on-demand printed book or an offset printed book from Ingram's. This is because Lightning Source always prints up copies to sit on Ingram's shelves, just like those that a publisher has offset printed.

The discussion about terminology could go on ad nauseum with people agreeing to disagree or whatever, but the facts are still the facts. Print-on-demand was patented as a TECHNOLOGY, not a business model. That right there invalidates the argument. Redefining the term, and adding new terminology is fine too, especially if it is repeated enough so that everyone starts to say it. Regardless, it is always important for authors to really understand what it all means. Sometimes redefining the terms and adding new terminology only advances the confusion that most people have. Other times it can help clarify understanding.

We do this for a living so we understand it. We're usually privvy to a lot more "insider" information than an author. We belong to large publisher groups, who discuss things like this all the time. Just because someone somewhere writes an article, or a blog, with their redefinitions or opinions, doesn't make it the universally accepted truth in the industry. Anyone can write an article or blog and make up anything they want.

And yes *sigh*, AW is too addictive :-) I'm going to publish some books now.

Dan

Jamesaritchie

07-07-2006, 10:42 PM

We do this for a living so we understand it. We're usually privvy to a lot more "insider" information than an author.
Dan

Now this I doubt. Some authors maybe, but certainly not all. I don't know any publishers that keep secrets, or anything a writer can't learn just by asking. I guarantee some writers know more than some publlishers.

MundaniaPress

07-07-2006, 10:55 PM

Print-on-demand is a business model, not a technology.

Print-on-demand is that business model in which a copy is created after an order is received. One could conceivably print-on-demand using any printing technology at all ... letter press, linoleum block, offset, etc. etc.

Digital printing is commonly used for print-on-demand publishing, but that does not make it synonymous with print-on-demand.

Not entirely correct.

Print-on-demand (POD) IS A US PATENTED PRINTING TECHOLOGY using specifically designed computers and copying machines, and specific processes to accomplish the creation of a book. Print-on-demand cannot be applied to any other printing technology such as offset printing. Look up the recent lawsuits because Lightning Source and Amazon (through their BookSurge company) uses the print-on-demand printing technology machines. It identifies the method of how the machine creates the book.

The patent for print-on-demand has nothing whatsoever to do with a business model.

There are some that are now bastardizing the term to indicate a business model so as to enforce and attempt to define the negative stereotypes of some vanity and subsidy publishers. Granted, when enough people use the term that way, it becomes standard terminology. That's how words like "ain't" get added to dictionaries. That's fine, but the basis of the term POD is still a techonology.

Back when the patent was applied for, print-on-demand was seen as something where you could place a POD machine into a bookstore, and once a customer picked out a book, it could be printed immediately for them right on the spot. Interesting concept, but probably won't happen. More likely society will eventually move to electronic editions (way far in the future) to conserve resources, etc. The new eBook readers with the "paper LCD" screens are amazing.

I have several devices to read an eBook. I like eBooks. I publish eBooks. But I still publish print books and love the feel and smell of holding one in your hands.

Vinyl record people hated cassettes and eight tracks. Cassette people hated CDs. VHS and laserdisc people hated DVDs. Technology marches on until it becomes the standard.

But I digress...

Dan

MundaniaPress

07-07-2006, 11:13 PM

Now this I doubt. Some authors maybe, but certainly not all. I don't know any publishers that keep secrets, or anything a writer can't learn just by asking. I guarantee some writers know more than some publlishers.

You are correct, however I did not say "all authors." Some authors are very well versed--because they have done research. We have lots of authors that have been around the block in publishing for many years, so understand it all intimately. However, I was referring to the general population of authors, especially new ones.

There is nothing wrong with being new to publishing, or not understanding everything. That's why places like AW are here!! To inform, educate, and instruct. That's why I'm even bothering to post here, to try to correct some of the misunderstandings that people have. We love it when we take an author and they already understand the business. It's a LOT less work for us if we don't have to educate them on how they can promote and market their book. Many new ones are simply scared of walking into a book store and asking to do a book signing. We have some that are afraid to do a signing, afraid to meet their public.

For those we try to remind them that they are a star! Just like any movie or TV star, they provide entertainment for a living (part-time or full time). When fans read your book they WANT to meet you. They look upon authors with awe and admiration. Published authors really do attain celebrity status. If they don't, then it's because they aren't working at it. All the movie and TV stars work at it very hard. A movie comes out and do the stars sit back and collect fat checks? No, they are traveling and making appearances to hawk their movies (and then they collect fat checks). Authors travel the country doing book signings all the time. Recording artists travel to do concerts. Why? Well it makes them more money, it gets their name out to the public, and it gives them the star status.

Write the best book you can. Do your homework and learn what the industry is all about so that you aren't disappointed or disillusioned. Know what to expect. Find the right publisher. Once published, do everything you can to achieve that star status. If you are fightened to do appearances, you need to dig deep and maybe come up with a public personna, just like many movie stars do. How many times have you heard that a particular personality is dreadfully shy in their real life. As an actor, they are able to play the part of being a star.

As an author, your fans will give you that status too. When you meet them be personable, be friendly, smile, talk to them and listen closely, pay attention. There is nothing that will help elevate you higher in your fans' eyes then being approachable.

And I digress again...

Anyway, my statement is not a blanket statement for all authors. However, in general, publishers will understand the business they are in better than most authors. That is proven to us every month as we are reaching the 500 submission mark. We can tell just from the queries and cover letters which authors understand the industry and which have very little clues (or all the ones in between). It is to our advantage to have knowledgable authors, because that always translates into more book sales.

Dan

MundaniaPress

07-07-2006, 11:34 PM

Jeez, no wonder it takes so long to review submissions, he's spending all his time here. *kidding.....kidding*

You got that right!

BTW, you mentioned Raymond K. Wong's book THE PACIFIC BETWEEN as great. FYI, Mundania Press is pleased to announce that we just signed Raymond as one of our catalog of authors.

Dan

MundaniaPress

07-07-2006, 11:41 PM

Ha, ha, Chris you're funny. Looks like he's truly an AWer, now. Perhaps if we shut our mouths, he'll get back to reading our scripts.

Actually, I've held Mundania a little higher on the roster than the other smaller publishers. I even suggested my agent give them a buzz/query. With the current glut in the industry I'd be damn lucky to land with them.

I'm only distressed to see Mundania (along with many others) doing so MANY friggin reprints on old titles. But that's business, and that's the number one priority of any house. I only hope in the future that the cash cow that might be derived from selling all these reprints might let more than a few new authors into the fold.

Tri

Hi. I'm Dan and I'm an AW-aholic. :-)

Don't be distressed that we take a lot of reprints. As you surmised, reprints come with a built in fan base so the sales are much easier. And usually the author will write new works for us too. However, we do publish more (granted, by a slim margin) new books than reprints. And a large majority of those new books are from first time authors. A quick look at our list shows published and soon to-be-published books at about 107 reprints and 118 brand-new books. We have several more that have recently been signed which are all new, so it pushes the new ones up closer to 150.

I haven't counted them up but I think we've got well over 2 dozen brand new authors in our catalog. We do take into account if the author has been published before, and if their older books could still sell, but we aren't afraid to invest in new authors with brilliant stories too.

Our best selling book over the last six months is from a new author, and we just reissued his book into hardcover too. Wait...I guess that makes it a reprint too.

Dan

victoriastrauss

07-08-2006, 02:48 AM

POD isn't evil, however, it has gotten such a bad reputation primarily because of early POD printing. Early on it was only used by vanity and subsidy publishers, who put out poorly written, poorly edited, and poor quality books, which were usually not returnable. This is what caused the big bookstores to shun them.

However, it is a very different story now as many, many good publishers putting out great books, nicely edited, and good quality (and returnable) are using print-on-demand technology (as defined by the patent), or digital print technology (as defined by the state-of-the art, word-of-the-month people. The problem is that old prejudices die slowly. I agree with your analysis of how POD (the technology) acquired a bad rep among booksellers. And absolutely, there are some exellent publishers using POD to produce at least some of their books. The problem is that the stuff that gave POD the bad rep is still overwhelmingly going on. Substandard books still flood forth from POD publishing services like iUniverse, from POD-based stealth vanities like PublishAmerica, and from the many, many amateur publishers that are started up by people with abundant good will but no clue about how to select, edit, market, or distribute books. Booksellers and reviewers are beseiged by publicity-hungry authors who've chosen these routes.

So the problem is as bad as it ever was--and although I think that people are much more aware these days than they used to be that not every publisher that uses POD technology is a vanity or hobby publisher, POD still has a bad rap and many people are wary of it just on principle. This is an issue that any small publisher that uses POD, and any author who signs a contract with such a publisher, has to confront.
What is the difference if I have 2,000 books printed on offset or printed digitally?But I don't think you would print 2,000 books via POD, because offset would be so much cheaper. Even if a publisher starts out using POD, if it becomes successful it'll move more and more toward offset.

Print-on-demand was patented as a TECHNOLOGY, not a business model. That right there invalidates the argument. That's like saying that because Kleenex was trademarked as a brand name, it's invalid to call all facial tissue Kleenex. Technically it is, but people do it anyway, and everyone understands what they mean. Whatever the proper and original meaning of print on demand, it has come also to refer to a business model--which is demonstrated by the fact that most people know what you mean when you say "POD publisher."

Basically, I'm agreeing with you. POD prejudices do exist, but ultimately what counts is a publisher's business practices, not the printing technology it uses.

- Victoria

davids

07-08-2006, 02:50 AM

Didn't Groucho speak of Mundania Press in A night at the Opera?

triceretops

07-08-2006, 04:28 AM

I agree with Victoria and Dan. I think the prejudices against POD have gotten totally out of hand and have been linked too closely with the true vanity outfits, and we all know who they are. The problem is the entire "middle class" publisher has vanished in the last 15-20 years, which leaves the huge press-run houses, and the small startup print on demand companies. This seems to be a gaping chasm that is defining the rich/prestiqious, with the tiny and the poor. An unfair division if ever there was one. I'm pleasantly surprized at the production qualities of many, many small press, print on demand companies. My agent certainly has nothing against them. The better ones are truly stepping stones to larger houses, and many of them get legitimate reviews and bookshelf placement. Many have great editing staffs, and work hard to produce a quality product.

The day will never come when I find myself ashamed to admit that I have been picked up by Black Death Books, Mundania, Reagent, Madallion, or any other small press that busts their keester to put a new author in print. With such a horrendous glut in the industry, with over the transom and general submissions clogging the publishing scape, I'm damn hard-pressed to see any relief or solution to this current system. POD just might be the wave of the future, along with the expansion of e-publishing. The problem with this is, our advances just might go the way of the Moa--extinct, except for "name" authors and breakout books.

Nineteen years ago my first non-fiction book landed at every B. Dalton and Waldons in the U.S. and 80% of all the libraries. This publisher only produced 12 books a year, but did produce catalogues, get tons of T.V. and radio reviews, and do small offset print runs. At that time they were my definition of a true small press. Such operations are nearly non-existent today, especially in the commercial fiction sense.

Perhaps Jim Baen was really on to something afterall.

Tri

James D. Macdonald

07-08-2006, 04:34 AM

Digital printing is just another form of short-run printing. Digital printing shouldn't be confused with POD -- POD is a business model. The fact that many of the newer vanity presses use the POD model shouldn't confuse the issue.

Branwyn

07-11-2006, 08:24 AM

From Baen Books?

He did pass from the stroke, I was researching publishers and came upon the site.

Gosh, there is SO much to learn. Thanks to you all for teaching me.

Jennifer Robins

07-13-2006, 07:07 PM

I sent my novel "Jeffrey" to Mundania over 2 months ago. I Know it may take a few more months to hear from them but I was wondering if they received it or not? I sent it in Word, but it had been in Word Perfect and when I changed it over to Word, it didn't place the pages the same with the page numbers and title at the top of the pages. I didn't know how to fix that so I just sent it along that way.
I know I was wanting to get this book out quickly, but some things have changed for me since then and now I'm not worried about when it comes out as much as I'm concerned about who publishes it. I keep sending it out to every press I can find that looks like they are legit.

Jennifer Robins

TwentyFour

07-13-2006, 08:04 PM

That's why there is Headers, you can post Titles, Names, Page #'s and so on.

I use them at the moment for such things as that. It may be easier for you to go through and do it like that, it automatically numbers it so pages are not repeated or skipped by an authors overlook.

rugcat

07-13-2006, 08:14 PM

That's why there is Headers, you can post Titles, Names, Page #'s and so on.

Actually, that may be the problem. I use an older version of WordPerfect, and when I save a doc in Word, Word doesn't recognize the page numbering commands. A newer version of WordPerfect from work doesn't have this problem when converting to Word.

TwentyFour

07-13-2006, 08:17 PM

I have a conversion software program that converts my word processor (actual word processor lol) to word processor on the computer, it is wonderful, I no longer have to carry my computer back and forth all the time for my writing.

Aconite

07-13-2006, 08:23 PM

Folks, tech stuff belongs in the tech forum, please. Let's keep these threads on-topic.

An on-topic comment: Manuscripts sent out to publishers or agents should be as close to perfect as the author can make them. Never send out a manuscript with known flaws. Do whatever you have to do to fix them before you send out the manuscript. No excuses.

Jennifer Robins

07-13-2006, 10:24 PM

excuse me! I thought this thread was about Mundania Press. Yes I have a question about my submittal, but I guess this is not the right place for it. Again, EXCUSE ME!!!!! I'll ask the publisher direct.

Jennifer

Branwyn

07-13-2006, 10:35 PM

[ Yes I have a question about my submittal, but I guess this is not the right place for it. Jennifer[/quote]

If they received it? I submitted to them and received an email stating they have it and it would take up to 120 days for them to get back to me.

Sassenach

07-13-2006, 10:52 PM

I keep sending it out to every press I can find that looks like they are legit.

You can save yourself a lot of aggravation and postage by making certain they're legit.

Jennifer Robins

07-13-2006, 11:34 PM

You can save yourself a lot of aggravation and postage by making certain they're legit.

Yes, I have done that, but I still wonder what will be in the contract. That is where I think you really get the facts. I check with several places who list companies and either recomend or not.

So far I have two publishers who are interested. I am also waiting to hear back from an agent who wanted to see the full manuscript.

I hope this post is allowed????

jennifer Robins

Birol

07-14-2006, 02:11 AM

Sheryl Nantus

07-14-2006, 02:17 AM

did you follow the instructions on the Mundania page:

http://www.mundania.com/submissions.html

TwentyFour

07-14-2006, 03:12 AM

I'll ask the publisher direct. That is what the guidelines are for, so you have all the info and will not keep emailing them. It is best to give them a few months, then send to someone else. I think alot of new writers have this problem, they want an answer right away and usually it is the scam artists who give you a quick, we love it-answer.

Jennifer Robins

07-14-2006, 04:50 AM

Jennifer, ease up.

Aconite did not address you or anyone directly when suggesting that some posts were veering off-topic. In fact, she specifically responded to you indicating that was "on-topic."

She was not chastising anyone with her comment, but providing a gentle reminder that there was an under-utilized forum for such indepth discussions about the technical intricacies of different word processing software.

Okay, I guess I'm a little touchy today.

I only sent one email to Mundania so far and that was today. They responded right away and told me my manuscript is there and will be reviewed. It may be another month or so, but they will get back to me.I sent them my work over 2 months ago.

That was all I really wanted to know. I have no intentions to email them any more. I think it is nice if the publisher lets you know that they have received you work or not. I hadnot gotten anything from them in the way of confirmation so I was a little concerned.
Others had sent me a message that they received my work.

Jennifer

Sheryl Nantus

07-14-2006, 08:01 AM

just a comment - I waited eight months before being accepted by Mundania in August of 2005. I have no idea if their workload is heavier or lighter since then.

*shrugs*

Harris

08-11-2006, 10:26 PM

I submitted a novel in Jan of this year. No word yet. Still waiting. :)

triceretops

08-11-2006, 11:55 PM

Mundania can be a very long wait. They are one of the more popular small presses around and receive scads of subs. Personally I wouldn't mind landing a contract with them.

Tri

Jennifer Robins

08-14-2006, 11:09 PM

johnnysannie

08-15-2006, 12:55 AM

It's been almost four months since I submited my manuscript and have not heard a word. I understand that even when you do get word, good word, you may not have your book out for two years from then. I have sent it out to others and if I get something with one of them, I will cancel my submission with Mundania. I can't belive it should take this long. (since Jan of this year?) Oh dear!!!!!

Jennifer Robins

Book publishing isn't a swift business. Check out some of the major publishers upcoming titles lists and you'll see that the publishing line up is many months and sometimes years ahead! Sad but true - we all crave quick recognition.

Sheryl Nantus

08-15-2006, 01:14 AM

I don't think you'll find any respectable publisher who will guarantee your work will be published in less than a year, honestly...

I'm sure Mundania will understand if you get an offer and have to recind your application, but I doubt anyone is going to promise to have your book out in less than two years.

triceretops

08-15-2006, 03:32 AM

If I'm not mistaken, Ray (Maestro) just sold to Mundania. You might PM him and ask about the process, since he's certainly going through it.

Tri

Mark Wakely

08-16-2006, 08:15 PM

I signed my contract for An Audience for Einstein with Mundania in early November 2004. The paperback and ebook edition appeared at the end of January 2005.

Fifteen months did not seem excessive to me. During that time, I had input on the cover art and went back and forth with the artist to settle on the final design. I also work with my editor at Mundania to change punctuation (and other formatting issues) to meet Mundania's style requirements and "argue" other changes. (Really, the whole process was relatively painless.) The worse sticking points were a few word choices where we both refused to budge. In the end, we reached a compromise and I'm still happy with the way the book came out.

So, basically, you're not just twiddling your thumbs that whole time. You'll have plenty to do, especially as the publication date looms.

Hope this helps.

JerseyGirl1962

08-17-2006, 12:17 AM

I signed my contract for An Audience for Einstein with Mundania in early November 2004. The paperback and ebook edition appeared at the end of January 2005.

Mark,

I think you meant January 2006. November 2004 to January 2005 is only 3 months.

Sorry to be so nitpicky.

~Nancy

Mark Wakely

08-17-2006, 12:38 AM

Oops.

Good catch.

I meant November 2003 to January 2005.

Actually, it feels like it was just yesterday.

Time sure flies, doesn't it?

Christine N.

08-17-2006, 12:42 AM

Jennifer,
Long waits are part of this business. Tor, for example, I hear is a year long wait if you sub without an agent. 365 days.

Why does it take so long? Because, unlike a lot of scam publishers, most real ones take the time to read what they get. Now, me personally, I reject a lot of submissions in the first two or three pages; sometimes the first paragraph! Most readings take 5-10 minutes. But multiply that by the hundreds or thousands of submissions that come in. And if something catches my eye and I want to read a full..... well, how long does it take you to read one book? Add to that the day-to-day business of running a publisher. Time gets away from you pretty quickly. And many editors take stuff home to read on the weekends - they give up their free time to keep the slush from overtaking the world!

So, take a deep breath and realize that all things happen in their own time. Write another book while you wait :) That's what I usually do.

batgirl

08-18-2006, 02:26 AM

I got my rejection from Tor in under 3 months. Baen Books website says they take a year - were you thinking of them?
Though at least one submission to Tor took a year, if I remember from browsing through Submitting to the Black Hole (http://critters.critique.org/blackholes/).
-Barbara

Christine N.

08-18-2006, 02:43 AM

Depends on what you're sending, I think. A query alone, or even a partial, is more likely to get a quick response. A full manuscript takes longer, especially if they read it all the way through.

Their time may be shorter now, but I know at one point it really was close to a year for an unsolicited manuscript.

batgirl

08-18-2006, 09:54 AM

Yeah, it was just the 3 chapters & synopsis, cover letter deal. There was never a request for the full. Currently I believe 3-and-synopsis is their standard for slush. I don't know what their requirements or standard turnaround time have been at other times.
DAW took about the same time, but Orbit UK and Hodder Headline each took only a couple of weeks, which was impressive in a way. Not a happy way, but at least it was over quickly.
-Barbara

Harris

09-09-2006, 05:39 PM

How long should someone wait before sending a follow up query?

Soccer Mom

09-09-2006, 07:39 PM

Most publishers list a time frame in their guidelines (four months, six months, nine months, etc...) I'd check their website and see. Then I would wait a month past the time before sending a follow up. Everyone can get a little behind.

Sheryl Nantus

09-09-2006, 08:22 PM

Mundania is being swamped with new manuscripts, as you can imagine. I enquired after six months, myself.

A little patience goes a long way, seriously.

:D

brainstorm77

09-09-2006, 11:35 PM

Mundania is being swamped with new manuscripts, as you can imagine. I enquired after six months, myself.

A little patience goes a long way, seriously.

:D

Congrats on your upcoming release with them :)

Harris

09-09-2006, 11:49 PM

Congrats and thank you Sheryl. I've been waiting 8 months as of today. I'll give them a bit longer then ask.

triceretops

09-10-2006, 12:05 AM

It was an incredibly long time for me as well. I second the notion that they are deluged right now and have been for some time.

Tri

Sheryl Nantus

09-10-2006, 12:34 AM

thankee all!

I received an answer after eight months - being an acceptance, of course! Being my first novel I was darned thrilled and honored to be accepted into their ranks!

but don't be afraid to ask, of course... just be aware that they are pretty darned busy!

Branwyn

09-10-2006, 05:05 AM

Congrats!:partyguy: I still have a bit to wait...I thinks it's only been 3 mos.

Silverhand

09-11-2006, 10:05 PM

congrats!! I am still waiting to hear back as well, mine has been out for around 3 1/2 months.

Harris

09-29-2006, 05:34 PM

Update. Two days shy of nine months I received my rejection. It wasn't a pleasant surprise in my email. At least I have an answer.

KAP

09-29-2006, 05:53 PM

Durn. Sorry to read that, Harris.

triceretops

09-29-2006, 06:01 PM

You're in great company, Harris. Been there done that three times already.

Tri

Sheryl Nantus

09-29-2006, 06:09 PM

Jennifer - any word back yet for you?

Harris

09-29-2006, 06:39 PM

I'm sure I'll try them again. :) I'm a glutton for punishment.

Melanie Nilles

10-15-2006, 08:58 AM

I know I'm new here--just joined tonight after reading this thread--but I wanted to say that I have had a good experience with this publisher so far. It may have taken them a while to accept my manuscripts (yes, multiple novels--a fantasy series and a separate stand-alone science fiction), but Dan is fair and their contract is straightforward. It also helped that I had three of the four books of the series completed, which proved it would be done in a reasonable time and showed where the series was headed.

Now their submissions policy has changed, but I'm glad that I was accepted by a reputable small press like Mundania, even if I won't see my first book in print for another year. That will give me time to finish the last of the series before the work really begins.

Good luck to everyone vying for those precious acceptance spots, wherever you submit, whether Mundania or elsewhere. I know it's a grueling road and rejection is depressing (every one set me back about a week of not wanting to write), but in the right time with the right story and the right publisher, it does happen. Just beware the dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

Melanie
www.melanienilles.com

TwentyFour

10-15-2006, 09:07 AM

I like how this company looks and best of luck Melanie...but I cannot send my work to them. I am not writing a fantasy or sci/fi novel.

BarbaraSheridan

10-15-2006, 09:20 AM

I like how this company looks and best of luck Melanie...but I cannot send my work to them. I am not writing a fantasy or sci/fi novel.

They take a number of genres not only fantasy and sci-fi. Categories listed include: Horror, Mystery, Romance, Historical

TwentyFour

10-15-2006, 09:25 AM

But they all have to have a paranormal theme, mine isn't like that. I checked it out, my novel is currently a southern fiction young adult. It has a bit of romance, drama, and underage drinking and sex...

Sheryl Nantus

10-15-2006, 06:43 PM

here's the list, right off the website:

We Accept
Mundania Press only accepts the following genres in novel, novella, and short story length.

Science-Fiction
Fantasy
Horror
Mystery (Sci-Fi)
Mystery (Fantasy)
Mystery (Paranormal)
Mystery (Horror)
Romance (Sci-Fi)
Romance (Fantasy)
Romance (Paranormal)
Romance (Horror)

Paranormal are stories with non-human characters, such as werewolves and vampires. Also stories of psi abilities, ghost, or other abnormal happenings. If accepted, novels are released in trade paperback and eBook editions. Novellas and short stories are released in eBook editions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We Do Not Accept

Erotica (Please submit to our erotica imprint—Phaze Books)
Poetry
Inspirational Fiction (Christian, Metaphysical, New Age)
Children's or Tween's books or stories
All Non-Fiction (how-to's, biographies, self-help, 'based on true stories', real life stories, etc.)
Mainstream Fiction
Contemporary, Historical, or Suspense Romance (romance must be in the sci-fi, fantasy, or paranormal genres)
Historicals
Western
War/Spy
Action/Adventure
Stories based on someone else's work. I.e., no Star Trek, Star Wars, TV shows, movies, or other books (unless you are the original author and retain all the rights--and can prove it).
Anthologies or collections of short stories, however we accept individual short stories.
Screen Plays or Scripts
Any genre not shown in the list of accepted genres.

TwentyFour

10-15-2006, 06:50 PM

Contemporary, Historical, or Suspense Romance (romance must be in the sci-fi, fantasy, or paranormal genres)
Thats why I cannot go there.

Melanie Nilles

10-15-2006, 06:55 PM

It's always important to submit to publishers that have other books similar to yours, rather than waste their time. I've been coming to understand that more and more. Mundania just happened to be a good fit for my stories.

Melanie
www.melanienilles.com

MundaniaPress

10-16-2006, 10:49 PM

Congrats!:partyguy: I still have a bit to wait...I thinks it's only been 3 mos.

Just as a followup. We're through almost all of May and have sent out notices for everything so far.

Unfortunately, several that we liked and read the whole manuscripts on, and even sent letters of acceptance for, were shot down by the authors because they already sold their manuscripts to another publisher. This is always a problem because we spend a lot of time and money (paying editors) to review the submissions sent us so that we make sure every single one of them get a fair and thorough review to see if it is something we are interested in publishing. I know it is hard to wait for some authors. If you do sell the book somewhere else, be sure to drop a line to the other publishers as a courtesy so they know not to go forward with your submission. That frees up our time to go on to the next book in the stack.

As far as sending notices--we have noticed a huge increase in the number of our email notices to authors not being received by them. This is normally due to the recipient's spam or junk filters grabbing our emails and dumping them in the waste bin. We also get bounced emails when the address is no longer viable. People seem to change email addresses like underwear!

It's a good idea to contact the publisher if you haven't heard from them within the "normal" amount of time. It could be that they already contacted you and you never saw it. It's not pushy to write a polite, professional inquiry about the status. However, don't use pushy language or yell that you don't have an answer yet after waiting so long. Always be professional. Writing and publishing is a business, so be business-like. You will earn the respect of everyone you come in contact with, whether they take your book or not, they will remember how nice it was to deal with you.

Example: If you sold your book to a publisher, and then got a rejection letter from another one, try to refrain from writing back to that publisher and saying, "Neener, neener, I already sold the book and you are too stupid to accept it." (Actual email we got recently.) All this does is burn your bridge. Do it too often, and you'll find you aren't welcomed anywhere.

Dan

Jennifer Robins

10-16-2006, 11:28 PM

brianm

10-16-2006, 11:31 PM

Dan,

Thank you for taking the time from your busy schedule to once again post in AW.

Unfortunately, several that we liked and read the whole manuscripts on, and even sent letters of acceptance for, were shot down by the authors because they already sold their manuscripts to another publisher. This is always a problem because we spend a lot of time and money (paying editors) to review the submissions sent us so that we make sure every single one of them get a fair and thorough review to see if it is something we are interested in publishing. I know it is hard to wait for some authors. If you do sell the book somewhere else, be sure to drop a line to the other publishers as a courtesy so they know not to go forward with your submission. That frees up our time to go on to the next book in the stack.

I hope all members will read the above quote and remember it the next time they worry about their submissions. That worry time is better spent writing their next MS.

Again, thank you and I hope Mundania's next book is a best seller.

MundaniaPress

10-17-2006, 12:13 AM

Dan,
I submited my novel, "Jeffrey" to you many months ago. After about 4 months I was made an offer from another publisher and I notified your office of that. Because I was told it could take up to eight months for an answer from your company, I went with the other one so I could get my book out sooner. I have another book that has been released from another publisher that I want to get out early next year. I wrote a movie script for it and it has had a lot of attention. A producer asked for the script a few weeks ago and I am now waiting to hear from him. I just need to know how you handle something like that?

Jennifer Robins

Jennifer,

We've never told anyone that there is an eight month delay. As far as how you would handle a request for a script, I don't have any ideas for you as that is something I never deal with. The only advice I can give is the same for every author (or scriptwriter) who is submitting something. Do your research. Have you checked out the producer? If there is serious interest, it might be time to find an agent. One especially for movie deals would be best. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Dan

Jennifer Robins

10-17-2006, 12:31 AM

[quote=MundaniaPress]Jennifer,

We've never told anyone that there is an eight month delay. As far as how you would handle a request for a script, I don't have any ideas for you as that is something I never deal with. The only advice I can give is the same for every author (or scriptwriter) who is submitting something. Do your research. Have you checked out the producer? If there is serious interest, it might be time to find an agent. One especially for movie deals would be best. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Dan

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I am looking for a publisher for the book that the script is written off of. I am conerned that if and that's a big if, the producer decides to go with this, I would not have the book on the market before the movie came out.

Jennifer

MundaniaPress

10-17-2006, 12:50 AM

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I am looking for a publisher for the book that the script is written off of. I am conerned that if and that's a big if, the producer decides to go with this, I would not have the book on the market before the movie came out.

Jennifer

You probably wouldn't have to worry about that. Most movies take years upon years to come to fruition. If they are really interested, they should offer you an option--money paid to you so that no other movie company can option the movie (that's money to keep regardless of whether they go through with it or not). Once you get an option, get an agent (or actually before!) and then your agent should not have any problem getting an offer for your book from one of the big publishing houses.

Dan

Jennifer Robins

10-17-2006, 01:00 AM

You probably wouldn't have to worry about that. Most movies take years upon years to come to fruition. If they are really interested, they should offer you an option--money paid to you so that no other movie company can option the movie (that's money to keep regardless of whether they go through with it or not). Once you get an option, get an agent (or actually before!) and then your agent should not have any problem getting an offer for your book from one of the big publishing houses.

Dan

I knew about the options and that it could take awhile. I have been trying to get an agent but that's not easy. Thank you so much for your suggestions.

Jennifer

MundaniaPress

10-17-2006, 01:08 AM

I knew about the options and that it could take awhile. I have been trying to get an agent but that's not easy. Thank you so much for your suggestions.

Jennifer

Once someone offers you an option, you'll be able to get an agent pronto. The agent can help negotiate the option too. Nothing gets you an agent faster than something that is pre-sold.

Dan

Christine N.

10-17-2006, 01:11 AM

Jennifer,
just going back to one thing you mentioned. You said that the book that has the screenplay already written, you want to get out early next year.

I cannot see how that is going to be possible with any legitmate publisher. Not to burst your bubble, but most presses are already working on their early to mid-2007 books. Just FYI, because this business is NOT quick at any stage.

And I think if you DO get the option deal, finding an agent that deals with such things will be easy. (LOL Mundania Press, we think alike)

Sheryl Nantus

10-17-2006, 02:07 AM

heck, it takes months/years to get a movie made in the first place...

some people just have no patience at all...

:D

Melanie Nilles

10-18-2006, 07:33 PM

Unfortunately, several that we liked and read the whole manuscripts on, and even sent letters of acceptance for, were shot down by the authors because they already sold their manuscripts to another publisher. This is always a problem because we spend a lot of time and money (paying editors) to review the submissions sent us so that we make sure every single one of them get a fair and thorough review to see if it is something we are interested in publishing. I know it is hard to wait for some authors. If you do sell the book somewhere else, be sure to drop a line to the other publishers as a courtesy so they know not to go forward with your submission. That frees up our time to go on to the next book in the stack.

In submitting my works over the years, I've seen more and more of the larger publishers (the ones who still accept unagented work) saying they don't accept simultaneous submissions. I think it's only fair when you consider the hours that any publisher grants an author to read their work that they, the author, honor that. Most of us as writers are impatient. (My husband knows this is a nasty trait of mine ;) But I've worked hard for over a decade to improve my writing and storytelling, so I've learned some patience, mostly in the form of rejection. Also, forums like this, where a publisher has had some input have also helped me to understand the processes we don't see. What you said applies not just to Mundania, but also to other publishers. I can understand sending out queries, but anytime you ask a publisher or agent to read a partial or full submission, I think it's only fair to give them an exclusive read as payment for the time they take to consider it.

I'm guessing that's part of the reason you changed your submission policy to an online query, which is what I saw more and more of when shopping for publishers and agents.

(I'm glad I didn't lose my online access too long--hard drive crashed big time the other day. This town may not be big, but at least someone had a laptop hdd and was able to replace it in one day. And all files were backed up--whew! I hate being disconnected from the rest of the world.)

Melanie

Silverhand

10-20-2006, 03:48 AM

Melanie,

While I agree with most of what you said, giving a publisher sole rights for more then 90 days just doesn't work. Granted, I am a newbie at all of this, but WE are a business too. If they are approaching us a business...then it can only be expected from authors as well. Just as in real life if a contractor takes too long to provide service, I will go somewhere else.

/shrugs

Jennifer Robins

10-20-2006, 07:32 PM

I agree with silverhand.
To wait several month or even a year for each and everyone you submit to could take years to get published. I don't think that's a good way to run a business. Yes I think of my writing as a business too.

Jennifer

James D. Macdonald

10-20-2006, 08:15 PM

Welcome to the wonderful world of the buyer's market.

In fact publishers don't need to look at slush at all. Their primary job is to publish the books they already have under contract the best way they can. So very few publishable books come from the slushpile that many publishers have decided to dispense with the thing entirely.

Where do they get manuscripts?

From submissions by agents, from personal recommendation by authors they already publish, and by solicitation. They've found those streams have more gold in them than the over-the-transom stream.

In effect, by going to agented-subs only they've moved the location (and associated costs in time and personnel) of the slushpile. From the writer's point of view this is trivial.

Remember this if you remember nothing else: Publishers are in the business of supplying readers with their needs, not supplying authors with theirs.

JAK

10-20-2006, 11:14 PM

kjh7073

11-07-2006, 11:22 PM

Someone I know just had an erotic novel accepted by these guys. I wonder if anyone has heard anything about them?

http://www.phaze.com/about.htm

I read the list of where their books are available and they're the same exact links (with the exception of walmart.com) where PA's books are available. It seems just a little fishy....so I thought I'd come to ya'all and see if you've heard anything.

Thanks,
KJ

veinglory

11-07-2006, 11:35 PM

Phaze is the erotic imprint of Mundania, a perfectly legitimate small epublisher.

Stacia Kane

11-08-2006, 12:25 AM

Second the positive notes for Phaze. I hear good things about them.

kjh7073

11-08-2006, 01:26 AM

Great! Thanks for letting me know :)

Bartholomew

11-08-2006, 01:31 AM

I read the list of where their books are available and they're the same exact links (with the exception of walmart.com) where PA's books are available. It seems just a little fishy....so I thought I'd come to ya'all and see if you've heard anything.

That's not fishy. PA doesn't actually make their books available at those places. They just say they do so that people will be suckered in.

Lots of people have books available at those places. This does not make those people suspect.

veinglory

11-08-2006, 01:37 AM

There is some more info here: http://www.veinglory.com/PPHAZ.html

I understand what you are picking up in 'traditional publisher' 'marking plan' etc but they are fine.

PhazePub

11-25-2006, 02:18 AM

I read the list of where their books are available and they're the same exact links (with the exception of walmart.com) where PA's books are available. It seems just a little fishy....so I thought I'd come to ya'all and see if you've heard anything.

Thanks,
KJ

I took over as publisher for Phaze in August, 2006. We are the erotic arm of Mundania, as veinglory mentioned. We've been around since 2004 and are finally hitting our stride. Our print books are available through a number of channels courtesy of distribution through Ingrams. I understand PA uses the same channels, but I can assure you we are worlds apart from PA. We will be at EPICon in March and RT in April, and are currently working on getting to BEA in June.

If you questions about Phaze, you are more than welcome to contact me personally. Thank you.

Kat Lively

Richard White

11-25-2006, 02:45 AM

Someone I know just had an erotic novel accepted by these guys. I wonder if anyone has heard anything about them?

The better question is, "why didn't you ask about them before you submitted to them?"

Not trying to be a smart-***, but wouldn't it be better to check out ANY publisher before you send them an query? Given the wealth of information available here, at Preditors and Editors and Writer Beware, due dilligence by a prospective author should be the rule of the day, not an afterthought.

James D. Macdonald

11-26-2006, 05:53 AM

The list of on-line bookstores that have Book X from Publisher 1 is the same as the list of on-line bookstores that have Book Y from Publisher 2, because the on-line bookstores just list everything that has an ISBN. It doesn't say anything about either book, or either publisher.

(I don't think that kjh7073 had submitted to Phaze, but was asking because she knows someone who did.)

kjh7073

12-05-2006, 05:42 PM

No, I hadn't submitted to Phaze...but someone I know did.... Makes me feel so much better that they don't have a horrid reputation like PA. I'm trying not to get myself entangled in anything like that again.

In fact, I might submit something I've been working on to Phaze... ;)

CrankItTo11

12-06-2006, 12:49 AM

We are the erotic arm of Mundania, as veinglory mentioned.

Is it wrong to find this sentence so funny?

Gary Clarke

11-26-2007, 11:56 AM

Hi folks, hats off to Mundania, they seem to be a darned good bunch of chaps with good product that gets distributed well. As soon as the first of Dec rolls around I'll be subbing. But I just read the sample contract and it kinda scared me a bit.

The business I come from often has contracts whereby you get offered Royalties on NET. We used to grin when we got to that clause because those royalties were never seen, and we knew they'd never be seen. We called it 'hollywood money'

I’d be so much happier to see the more acceptable royalties on GROSS in the contract ( which, as I read it, would mean your percentage is paid on the cover price of every book sold, rather then on the cover price minus whatever expenses the publisher decides were involved in getting the book out there.)

Now, it seems to me that Mundania has been around for a good few years and that their authors are happy with their earnings, so I'm just wondering. How do they make the royalties on NET work? I'm sorry to sound cynical, but I'm cynical for good reason having seen many a poor sot burned.

Can you give me some qualm-easing answers?

victoriastrauss

11-26-2007, 07:24 PM

Gary Clarke

11-26-2007, 07:49 PM

Hi Dan, thanks so much for coming online to answer my question! I understand that you’re unbelievably busy and I genuinely appreciate you taking the time to try and answer my question.

I still don’t fully understand though. I’m not being a smart ass here, I’m genuinely terrible when it comes to figures ( a trait that I suspect I share with many an artist. ) My faculties seem to just shut down and I start drooling.

Can you ( or someone else here, I know you’re mad busy) dumb it down even further for me? (If that’s possible, it’s probably below par for toddler-maths at the moment and I still don’t understand LOL!)

I just can’t get my head around how it’s better to get a percentage of an as yet unknown amount ( the price of the book minus costs ) as opposed to a percentage off the top of the cover price of the book.

Gary Clarke

11-26-2007, 07:57 PM

Victoria! Thanks so much! I didn't see this reply when I posted to Dan. That sheds a good bit of light for me! Thank you.

Less ethical publishers do sometimes try to "Hollywoodize" their net royalty payments. Things to watch out for:

- Anything other than wholesalers' discounts and applicable taxes deducted from net. Some publishers also deduct shipping and handling, which can add up to a lot, and some deduct a whole menu of costs including printing and/or publicity.

- Royalties paid on "net profits" rather than just on "net." That one, easily-missable little word can mean the difference between fair royalties and a pittance.

As I noted, royalties paid on retail are best. Yes, with a higher percentage paid on net, you do make more on books direct-sold by the publisher--but if a small publisher is doing a good job of marketing and distribution, a sizeable portion of its sales should come from third-party vendors.

- Victoria

Can I ask if all that should be clear in a contract? ( the fact that only wholesalers discounts and relevant taxes are applicable for example) or are you basically expected to keep your fingers crossed and hope for the best?

Also, if it came down to it and your title was lucky enough to be a hit and then went on to be sold widely through third party vendors, would it be best to include a clause to the effect that shipping etc wouldn't be deducted from net?

Again, not sure that I've really understood what you're trying to tell me, so I apologise if I'm mangling your original meaning. Set me straight if that's the case ok?

herdon

11-26-2007, 08:20 PM

Can I ask if all that should be clear in a contract? ( the fact that only wholesalers discounts and relevant taxes are applicable for example) or are you basically expected to keep your fingers crossed and hope for the best?

Also, if it came down to it and your title was lucky enough to be a hit and then went on to be sold widely through third party vendors, would it be best to include a clause to the effect that shipping etc wouldn't be deducted from net?

Yes, it should be spelled out in the contract (and is spelled out in their sample contract), which makes your second question moot.

Royalties based on net are not uncommon among small press and e-press since it allows them to figure in the discounts given to third-party vendors.

Though, personally, I think 12% net is a little on the low side. No real figures to go on here, but it amounts to the equivilent of about a 6% royalty on sales through a third party. And, as Victoria said, if the publisher does its job, a sizable amount should come through a third party. I'd say 15% on net would be more reasonable. Again, just my opinion.

Also, that's for print editions, for e-books the royalty percentage on net should be much higher (around 40%). Note: Mundania's contract spells out 40% on net for e-books, so they are right in line for this.

victoriastrauss

11-26-2007, 08:54 PM

Can I ask if all that should be clear in a contract? ( the fact that only wholesalers discounts and relevant taxes are applicable for example) or are you basically expected to keep your fingers crossed and hope for the best?
As Havlen said, it should be spelled out--the contract should include a definition of "net." If there is no definition of net in the contract (which can sometimes be a warning sign of an inexperienced publisher), you should ask for one--and get it in writing. Never rely on verbal assurances.
Also, if it came down to it and your title was lucky enough to be a hit and then went on to be sold widely through third party vendors, would it be best to include a clause to the effect that shipping etc wouldn't be deducted from net?This is putting it backwards. Unless your title is sold through third-party vendors right from the start--i.e., wholesalers and distributors, necessary if the book is to get into physical bookstores--it's not very likely to become a hit. For most books, wide availability, including bookstore presence, is essential for volume sales.

- Victoria

herdon

11-26-2007, 09:51 PM

The key ingredient for having sales is being read, and the key ingredient to being read is having sales. These two play into each other, which is why having small or no distribution at the start will handcuff a book. Even with distribution that puts the books in physical stores, being a best seller is a very low probability, without that distribution, that chance goes to just this side of none.

Gary Clarke

11-27-2007, 01:01 AM

Havlen and Victoria, you guys have been just great. Thank you so much for your help. This is a difficult industry to understand and cope with, this board is a blessing!

Mark Wakely

11-28-2007, 10:52 PM

While I can’t speak for all Mundania authors, I can tell you that my own novel is selling well. I’ve sold in excess of 2,500 copies so far (since February 2005) with virtually no bookstore placement. Would I like to see my novel in bookstores? Of course. But that’s not Mundania’s business model. Mundania started out as a reprint house to make a few classic science fiction and fantasy titles available again. Their plan has always been to keep books in print for as long as possible by selling them through online bookstores, as well as through Baker & Taylor and their own website. So instead of facing the sooner-than-expected remainder table, my novel should continue to sell steadily for years to come, at least for as long as Mundania remain in business. And since Mundania is having its best year ever, that should be quite a long time.

I recently signed another foreign rights contract, this time with RAO in Romania, and the Korean edition of An Audience for Einstein continues to sell well. Here’s one of the Korean online bookstore that lists my book:
http://book.interpark.com/product/BookDisplay.do?_method=Detail&sc.shopNo=&sc.dispNo=&sc.prdNo=12228281

My agent- Diane Dreher at Rights Unlimited- says that foreign rights sales have a way of snowballing, so here’s hoping for many more sales.

Another thing really helping to drive sales has been the growing number of middle school and high school teachers assigning my book. If you look at my novel’s page on Amazon, you’ll see several examples. A few of those school orders were made directly from the Mundania website, so I can attest to the benefits of net royalties instead of gross when that happens.

Quarterly royalty payments have been punctual, and with the online royalty report system Dan is creating, I’ll soon be able to track sales on a monthly basis, a huge plus. (Royalty payments will be monthly as well.) There’s a private Mundania Press authors’ group on Yahoo! where we share success stories as well as marketing tips such as how to have a successful book signing, etc., and a public Mundania group too, here for those who might be interested in joining: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mundania_press/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mundania_press/)

Bottom Line: I would sign with Mundania again in a heartbeat, and I don’t sweat the gross vs. net thing, or the lack of bookstore placement. Dan has been consistently true to his word and forthright in his business dealings with me, and in an industry fraught with frauds and charlatans (and lots of honorable people, to be fair) that’s worth its weight in gold.

I hope this answers your concerns.

Robyn

11-29-2007, 12:03 AM

This is one company i'm wanting to sub to but they are still closed to submissions. I can say I'm going to be hitting their site come Dec 1st to see if they are open again. I have a fantasy novel burning a hole in my drawer that I have wanted to forward their way for awhile.

ajkjd01

11-29-2007, 12:23 AM

Can I say that I met with Bob Sanders at the Novels in Progress Workshop in Louisville, Kentucky, last March, and I was very impressed. I was disappointed to learn that they were not accepting submissions at the time, but Bob still took the time to sit down one-on-one with a few of us and talk about our projects and submission and marketing strategy. It was probably one of the most valuable discussions I'd had all week. And that's really saying something because the conference was awesome!

It really did help to get into my head exactly what I will need to do for my project.

They are definitely on my list of places to submit.

Gary Clarke

11-29-2007, 01:01 PM

Hi Mark, sounds like you're having a really good ride with Mundania! It's great to hear it and bets wishes for the novel going from strength to strength!

ajkjd, Bob S sounds like a great fellow. How cool that he would take the time to to talk to you guys like that.

Robyn, good luck with that submission! Let us know how you get on maybe?

Mark Wakely

12-03-2007, 04:58 AM

Mundania has removed the "closed for submissions" notice on their website. You can find their guidelines here:

http://www.mundania.com/submissions.html

If you have any questions about submissions, try their FAQ page first:

http://www.mundania.com/faqs-submissionfaqs.html

If you don't find the answers you're looking for, contact them at:

inquiry@mundania.com

Robyn

12-03-2007, 07:35 PM

Finally! I was waiting with anticipation for them to reopen. I'm going to head over there now!

JamesAllen

12-04-2007, 11:39 PM

victoriastrauss

12-05-2007, 08:34 PM

As has been pointed out in this thread, Mundania, like many small presses, has limited ability to market and distribute its books. It seems to do little of the important pre-publication marketing that's so important for book placement (like sending galleys well in advance of publication to top review venues), and relies heavily on its authors to be pro-active in getting the word out about their books. And while it is carried by the major wholesalers, it doesn't employ sales reps or work with a distributor, which for a small publisher can mean the difference between bookstore placement and special order.

Now, sadly, Mundania seems to be turning even farther away from commercial methods of book distribution. Mundania authors recently received an email that begins (bolding is mine):
To help those who wish to carry books to signings, or use them for reviews, entering contests, giveaways, placement in stores, etc., we have made a few changes to help.

Starting today, there will be additional pricing tiers added with bigger discounts. For most author purchases, this will mean that you will be able to make more money on selling your books. Why? Because it is much cheaper for us to provide author copies at a higher discount than suffer the losses from returns when bookstores overorder.The "pricing tiers" are as follows:

TIER 1 : Orders of from 1 to 9 of the same book get a 40% discount plus UPS shipping

TIER 2: Orders of from 10 to 99 of the same book get a 45% discount plus UPS shipping.

TIER 3: Orders of from 100 to 499 of the same book get a 50% discount plus free US shipping.

TIER 4: Orders of from 500 or more of the same book get a 55% discount plus free US shipping.

I believe tiers 1 and 2 were already in place at Mundania, but Tier 3 has been expanded and Tier 4 is new.

We can all sympathize with the struggles of cash-strapped smaller publishers. And Mundania is at least honest about the fact that the new policies are intended to reduce its financial exposure (bookstore returns are expensive for it because it uses Lightning Source, and must pay for the printing and shipping of all returned books). However, in my opinion, this signals what could be a profoundly negative change in direction for Mundania, toward an author-supported publishing model not much different from the one relied upon by author mills such as PublishAmerica. If a publisher can transform enough of its authors into customers, it has little incentive to look outside its author pool for sales.

Writer Beware has gotten some complaints about Mundania over the past year. These include: authors' questions and concerns being ignored (both in email and on the Mundania author loops), delays in publication schedules, changes in payment schedules, substandard editing, and bookstores having difficulty obtaining Mundania books. Based on Mundania's own description of its sales figures, the average sale for a Mundania book appears to be around 20-30 per month (and I suspect that for some books, that's a generous estimate).

- Victoria

Gary Clarke

12-06-2007, 02:12 AM

Thank you for that information, Victoria, it's invalauble to know this stuff. I swear, I'd be lost without this board.

Unimportant

12-06-2007, 02:32 AM

Thanks for that update, Victoria. It's disappointing that Mundania isn't moving to increase its distribution; that's the key factor I look for when considering the small presses.

MundaniaPress

12-06-2007, 02:49 AM

Do you know if Mundania still only looks at historical romance if it has fantasy/sf/paranormal elements? It looks as though it's changed on the website to include more genres than before.
Do you know if they will look at gay romance (that doesn't fit in Phaze guidelines)?

Hey James,

Here is our submission wants:

We Accept Novels, Novellas, and Short Stories

Science-Fiction
Fantasy
Horror
Mystery (must be in the sci-fi, fantasy, paranormal, or horror genres).
Romance (Contemporary, Historical, Suspense, Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Paranormal, and other subgenres).
Erotic romance and erotica will be considered for our erotic imprint—Phaze Books.
Historicals
Western
War/Spy/Action/Adventure
Mainstream Fiction
Children and Young Adult are accepted (however, these must be in the sci-fi, fantasy, paranormal, or horror genres).
Short stories must be at least 5,000 words.
Previously published or self-published works are considered for re-publication as long as the work is out of print everywhere and your rights have been returned.We Do Not Accept

Poetry
Inspirational Fiction (Christian, Metaphysical, New Age)
All Non-Fiction (how-to's, biographies, self-help, 'based on true stories', real life stories, etc.)
Stories based on someone else's work. I.e., no Star Trek, Star Wars, fan fiction, 'based on' TV shows, movies, or other books (unless you are the original author and retain all the rights—and can provide proof).
Screen Plays or ScriptsAs far as gay romance that does not fit in Phaze guidelines, we will certainly be open to reviewing it. Not sure what Phaze guideline it doesn't fit, but that's always something to talk about if we like the work.

Dan

MundaniaPress

12-06-2007, 03:36 AM

Let me address a few points that have been made on this list.

AUTHOR PURCHASES

We have always allowed our authors, who wanted, to purchase additional books at an author discount. Authors who like to carry their own books to signings have asked us about the possibility of increased discounts if they order more copies. We responded to the requests by changing from a flat rate to an increasing rate of discount and paid shipping for larger quantities. This was well received by the authors who asked for it.

Any time an author decides to sell his own book, this is always in addition to the normal sales through our distribution channels and direct sales.

PAYMENT SCHEDULES

Two years ago we offered authors an optional higher royalty percentage if they wanted to opt for a bi-annual versus quarterly. It was an option offered and a few took advantage of it, while others stayed quarterly.

Recently we implemented our new online royalty system and have now moved everyone from quarterly to monthly royalties. Authors received royalty statements online each month with payment.

We offer three ways for the author to receive royalty payments, PayPal, a check, or direct deposit to their bank. Direct deposits were requested by some of our authors, and we responded to meet their needs.

EDITING

We recently hired a new Senior Editor, along with 20 more editors. Each book receives a full edit conducted between assigned editor and the author. Once that is done, corrections are made and a printed galley is sent to the author and an electronic version to the editor for another review. After any additional corrects are made, an electronic copy goes to a line editor/proofer for a final pass prior to publication.

Should a typo be found after publication, it is corrected immediately. This is an advantage with small publishers.

DISTRIBUTION
We continue to be wholesaled by Ingram's, in the US, the UK, and now the new European Union, as well as Baker & Taylor for library sales.

All of our books are listed in books-in-print and all of our print books are returnable to Ingram, Baker & Taylor, and directly to us.

Since we are listed in all of Ingram's catalogs, with Baker & Taylor, and books-in-print, and because all of our books are fully returnable, bookstores should have no trouble finding and ordering our books. Anytime an author runs into a problem with a bookstore, we call the manager at that location for the author to help facilitate the ordering and signing.

Regards,

Daniel J. Reitz, Sr.
Publisher, Mundania Press LLC

MundaniaPress

12-06-2007, 03:45 AM

Gary, while royalty payments calculated on retail or cover price are desirable, many smaller publishers do pay on net. With an ethical publisher, this means the book's retail price less wholesalers' discounts (anywhere from 40-60%).

Less ethical publishers do sometimes try to "Hollywoodize" their net royalty payments. Things to watch out for:

- Anything other than wholesalers' discounts and applicable taxes deducted from net. Some publishers also deduct shipping and handling, which can add up to a lot, and some deduct a whole menu of costs including printing and/or publicity.

- Royalties paid on "net profits" rather than just on "net." That one, easily-missable little word can mean the difference between fair royalties and a pittance.

As I noted, royalties paid on retail are best. Yes, with a higher percentage paid on net, you do make more on books direct-sold by the publisher--but if a small publisher is doing a good job of marketing and distribution, a sizeable portion of its sales should come from third-party vendors.

- Victoria

For clarification: Mundania pays on net. We define net as the actual money we receive from a reseller, or from a customer who buys from our website.

Wholesalers and resellers pay us differing amounts, but whatever is on the check that we cash from them, is entered as the amount received for the sale. Nothing more is ever deducted.

Purchases from our website are usually at retail, or possible discounted slightly for special sales. Every dollar we receive from the sale is reported as the net. That means if a book sells for $13.95 on our website, then we pay royalties on the $13.95. We do not deduct any shipping, merchant fees, shopping cart fees, or the cost of printing the book. We absorb all cost of goods and sales from purchases made on our website. Although it is called net, when we sell from our website it is actually gross on the retail price, or sale price.

Dan

MundaniaPress

12-06-2007, 04:00 AM

It's disappointing that Mundania isn't moving to increase its distribution

We have maintained a consistent distribution and sales for the past five years. However, we continue to look for new avenues for sales of our books.

Dan

kiwiauthor

12-06-2007, 05:32 AM

Dan, thank you for posting here, and doing so as thoroughly as you have. It's appreciated.

I have a question. What is stopping you being more aggressive in getting Mundania books on shelves like other small publishers, Samhain for example?

Unimportant

12-06-2007, 05:54 AM

Dan, thanks for the info.

I'm sorry to sound stupid, but I can't seem to find the information anywhere: does Mundania do small print runs, or do they use the POD model?

Doodlebug

12-06-2007, 06:05 AM

Now, sadly, Mundania seems to be turning even farther away from commercial methods of book distribution.

I'm very bothered by your post because your quote was taken out of context. As a Mundania writer myself (who received the e-mail to which you are referring), I can say that Mundania is reliable, reputable, and not out to cheat its writers in any way.

In the future, I suggest that you be more careful with your 'facts'.

Jonestown

12-06-2007, 07:14 AM

(I have a question. What is stopping you being more aggressive in getting Mundania books on shelves like other small publishers, Samhain for example?)

They are aggressive, and share that info with the authors. I have a Mundania book, and it's been on the shelves at major book stores, and there's never been a problem ordering. The competition for shelf space is brutal even with mass market publications, so you can imagine what it's like with small press. But this doesn't indicate a lack of marketing on the part of the publisher.

Just my 2c

veinglory

12-06-2007, 07:34 AM

kiwiauthor

12-06-2007, 07:36 AM

JT, thanks for this. Can you tell me the title of your book?

kiwiauthor

12-06-2007, 07:41 AM

Talk about irony, doodlebug. Did you consider that you in turn are taking a statement out of context in answering this way. :)

Doodlebug

12-06-2007, 08:10 AM

Talk about irony, doodlebug. Did you consider that you in turn are taking a statement out of context in answering this way. :)

If I took the quote from Victoria's post out of context, then I apologize. I did not mean to.

My point was simply that the snippet of the e-mail she shared did not accurately reflect the meaning of the entire message. I was concerned that people might have gotten the wrong idea about the publisher from the her post.

Melanie Nilles

12-06-2007, 08:23 AM

I think it is legit to flag an emphasis on selling books to the author as a potential concern. A correction, or providing extra context is great. But a counter-attack with capital letters and chastisement strikes me as more off-putting than reassuring.

I can hear Dan's frustration coming through. I can't speak for him, but I can speak for myself. I can understand why you may read his words that way. I think he's emphasizing what those of us who are authors have seen on the private author group in following the changes. Those who aren't have no idea the daily grind that Dan and Bob put themselves through. I can understand why he wrote the way he did. Please don't judge the way he wrote his response as none of us have any idea the tone of voice HE INTENDED. (see? I can use capitals for emphasis too.)

The issue is not about that. The issue is taking positive changes and turning them into something negative, as what happened with what Victoria took out of context (not having had all the background info). Dan and Bob are honest with their authors and hardworking.

Melanie Nilles

12-06-2007, 09:22 AM

Already considered that and edited--don't always comprehend possible misinterpretations before I click the submit reply (and it's late). Maybe you could be so kind?

brer

12-06-2007, 10:04 AM

x.)
Victoria,

Here we go again. Using an internal author discussion post to create a sound byte to support your theories that we are bad is nothing new in this industry. It seems it's been the job of many to take down all small press, us included. That way only big New York firms stick around and the number of published authors drop to staggeringly low numbers.

Your guesses, beliefs, and opinions are your own and you are free to post them, however misleading. Just like I am free to rebut your guesses, beliefs, and opinions.

... snipped ...

If you do wish to keep continue your postings against us, that's your choice. You might want to do your readers the courtesy to actually compare us with other small publishers too. You will find that we come out in the top percentile of good publishers all the time. We don't pretend to be bigger than we are; we are a small publisher. We don't do large print runs or use a distributor with salesmen to sell books, although our New Classic Imprint does do that.

... snipped ...

Regards,

Daniel J. Reitz, Sr.
Publisher, Mundania Press LLC

That sounds impressive, that: "You will find that we come out in the top percentile of good publishers all the time."
Is Mundania Press in the top one percent of all good (small) publishers all the time?

I'd consider if "Mundania Press was in the top one percent of all the small publishers all the time" to be impressive, too.

Is Mundania Press in that top one percent?
(And how would that be proved?)

Also, I'm sort of surprised at your (Mundania Press) condescending tone in that post. I know who "Victoria" is by her reputation. And I know she's looking out for the general writer's well being. Now, who are you guys?

x.)

... snipped ...

Those who aren't have no idea the daily grind that Dan and Bob put themselves through.

... snipped ...

In Melanie's post, before she modified it, there was another sentence (near the quoted one) that seemed to imply to me that for Dan and Bob this Mundania Press was a part-time job, besides them having their other full time jobs.

Is that true?
Do Dan and Bob have other full time jobs besides running Mundania Press?
If that is true, then that sounds rather worrying to me.

JamesAllen

12-06-2007, 10:19 AM

As far as gay romance that does not fit in Phaze guidelines, we will certainly be open to reviewing it. Not sure what Phaze guideline it doesn't fit, but that's always something to talk about if we like the work.

Dan

Hello, Dan,
Thank you for the reply! I just meant gay romance that is more romance than erotica. It's my impression that if the sexual content of the book is more of the 'sweet' variety, without graphic details, it will not meet Phaze guidelines (and maybe isn't marketable anywhere, anyway, from what I've seen in various small press guidelines).

Gary Clarke

12-06-2007, 12:53 PM

brer

12-06-2007, 02:12 PM

Doodlebug

12-06-2007, 04:29 PM

God. Now my mind really is spinning. I had been absolutely certain that I would sub to Mundania. Then absolutely certain I wouldn't. Now I'm absolutely certain that I have a head ache and don't know what to do at all.

My suggestion is to read some of the books that they've published. If you like what you read, then go for it!

Good luck!! :)

Gary Clarke

12-06-2007, 05:05 PM

brer: LOL, already on it! But where to go with all the ones I need a home for? That's the question.

Doodlebug: Good luck to you too! Let us know how you get on as things progress won't you?

Melanie Nilles

12-06-2007, 05:36 PM

Is Mundania Press in that top one percent?
(And how would that be proved?)

Preditors and Editors poll. Proven sales. Etc.

In Melanie's post, before she modified it, there was another sentence (near the quoted one) that seemed to imply to me that for Dan and Bob this Mundania Press was a part-time job, besides them having their other full time jobs.

Is that true?
Do Dan and Bob have other full time jobs besides running Mundania Press?
If that is true, then that sounds rather worrying to me.

Realized I may have given out TMI and given the wrong impression. These guys give 110% and work full-time at it, along with their staff. There's no reason to worry.

Why are you all so intent on picking apart every detail? They're a small press and they're good to authors and listen to our concerns. Someone started this because they wanted to brew up trouble where their isn't any. (and some of us are good at sticking our feet in our mouth.) MP gives authors a lot of control (unlike big publishing houses) and input in things like title and cover art. Once the final is done for mine, you'll see it as my avatar. The rough draft I saw was awesome! (I've never seen a more realistic dragon.)

I'm sorry I gave the wrong impression, which is why I edited--it was late and my brain was shutting down. I realized it shortly after I posted it.

MundaniaPress

12-06-2007, 07:20 PM

does Mundania do small print runs, or do they use the POD model?

We use print on demand through Lightning Source for most of our books. We do select print runs using print on demand and press runs for our New Classics Imprint.

Dan

MundaniaPress

12-06-2007, 07:26 PM

God. Now my mind really is spinning. I had been absolutely certain that I would sub to Mundania. Then absolutely certain I wouldn't. Now I'm absolutely certain that I have a head ache and don't know what to do at all.

To help with an author's decision to submit to Mundania we post FAQs and a sample contract on our website.

Our authors can be contacted through their websites for further references on their experience and satisfaction.

It is important for an author to make sure a publisher is a good fit prior to accepting a contract for publication.

Dan

MundaniaPress

12-06-2007, 07:30 PM

Hello, Dan,
Thank you for the reply! I just meant gay romance that is more romance than erotica. It's my impression that if the sexual content of the book is more of the 'sweet' variety, without graphic details, it will not meet Phaze guidelines (and maybe isn't marketable anywhere, anyway, from what I've seen in various small press guidelines).

Hey James,

I know we do take stuff that isn't graphic. Send it along and our editors will look it over. Depending on their feelings, it might be evaluated by Phaze editors or we may take it. I think most every book we have has sexual content in it (can't get away from what people want).

Couldn't hurt to look it over.

Dan

MundaniaPress

12-06-2007, 07:42 PM

I think it is legit to flag an emphasis on selling books to the author as a potential concern. A correction, or providing extra context is great. But a counter-attack with capital letters and chastisement strikes me as more off-putting than reassuring.

We apologize if you felt it was off-putting. That was not our intent.

There are many situations where an author would have the opportunity to sell books without a bookstore present. We have many authors who give talks at libraries and schools, hold workshops, attend conventions and fairs, and deal with independent gift shops.

We don't emphasize selling books to our authors. We support our authors who want to sell their own copies. Many of our authors have success with these different avenues.

Some of our authors queried about the possibility of increased discounts for larger quantities. In response to those requests we developed a tiered discount including free shipping. This does not signal a change in company direction, but an increase in benefits in direct response to author requests.

This is all in addition to the normal distribution and sales efforts.

Saanen

12-06-2007, 07:54 PM

I'm hesitant to post here, and by the time I finish writing someone else will probably have beat me to the salient points anyway. :) First of all, I do have great respect for Mundania and don't regret sending my query in when you reopened for subs the other day. Your website is great, your books are high quality, and I know you are writer-friendly.

That said, one or two comments you've made have me a bit worried. I know you didn't intend it to sound this way, but when you drop a phrase like "You probably won't get rich (very, very few ever do) but you will have fun being a celebrity -- a published author," it raises red flags to me.

I know I consider myself a professional writer even though I don't make a living at it. I don't send my work out because I want to become a "celebrity" (and I don't equate publishing with celebrity-dom either). I don't even send my work out hoping I'll get rich (although wouldn't that be nice?). I send my work out in hopes that it will be read, and enjoyed, by as many people as possible.

Making sure my books are distributed widely is the publisher's job--although I do my part as a writer by getting the word out, drumming up enthusiasm for the book, shilling in general, etc. But implying in any way that I can make more money buying and reselling copies of my book myself pushes the publisher's job onto my back. That's wrong. I think that's all Victoria was concerned about.

I suspect that if you hadn't mentioned that about reselling, there would have been no problem at all with the email.

Jonestown

12-06-2007, 08:04 PM

Not to answer for Dan, but I think some of the confusion seems to be with the reselling idea. This was mentioned in the internal email for the purpose of book signings, as an alternative to having the bookstore order, at the authors choice. By buying the books yourself at your author discount, then using them at a signing, you get your royalty payment from the books that sell. The ones left over, you can use at your next signing, rather than the bookstore sending them back to the publisher.

I'm published with 3 reputable small presses, and all make this same suggestion in terms of book signing events. It's simply beneficial to the author and publisher simultaneously.

victoriastrauss

12-06-2007, 08:35 PM

Just to say I'm aware of the discussion here--I'm jammed up at the moment and haven't had a chance to respond. I'll do so later today.

- Victoria

brianm

12-06-2007, 09:36 PM

Dan,

I appreciate you taking the time to respond in this thread. I can also appreciate your position.

I have friends on AW who are published by you and they have indicated their enthusiasm for Mundania. I have purchased their books through your bookstore and the service has been excellent. Additionally, the books are of good quality.

That said, I think you must remember that this is a writers’ site and that these threads are used to give new writers as much information as possible about a publisher, so that they may make up their minds as to whether a certain publisher is a good fit for them or not.

I believe you are doing your utmost to support your authors. I also believe you are struggling as a small press and that you are finding it difficult to compete and stay afloat without making some changes. My hope is that you continue to forge forward and that you will be able to improve and strengthen Mundania's reputation and services.

That said, I understand and respect why Victoria has made the comments she has made in this thread. New writers need to be aware of what a publisher can and cannot do for them. That's why these threads exist. Some of your comments have been questionable and I understand why she has red flagged those comments. My gut tells me you are doing your best and that you are not, at this time, intending to make your income off your authors. Nevertheless, it is important that Mundania's changes be monitored to make sure she remains on the correct path. Just as we monitor and record what other publishers and agents are doing in these threads.

I want to see my friends succeed. Therefore, I want to see Mundania succeed. Best wishes to you and I hope that you will become a frequent participant in AW’s forums, and that you will update this thread as Mundania moves forward in the publishing marketplace.

brer

12-06-2007, 10:22 PM

x.) That sounds impressive, that: "You will find that we come out in the top percentile of good publishers all the time."
Is Mundania Press in the top one percent of all good (small) publishers all the time?

I'd consider if "Mundania Press was in the top one percent of all the small publishers all the time" to be impressive, too.

Is Mundania Press in that top one percent?
(And how would that be proved?)

I never said the top "one" percent. That's a word you added. It would be nice but not true. We're in the top. We've got a recommended rating at Preditors & Editors and have been in the top 10 in their annual ratings for the past two years (#6 in 2005, #5 in 2006). And #15 in 2004.

... snipped ...

But you did say you were in the top percentile, which is the top one percent:

You might want to do your readers the courtesy to actually compare us with other small publishers too. You will find that we come out in the top percentile of good publishers all the time.

Isn't that what "the top percentile" is, the top one percent?
Or do I misunderstand the definition of "percentile?

kiwiauthor

12-06-2007, 11:25 PM

Thank you for your detailed response, Dan, and like brianm, I'm of theview that Mundania is one of the good guys and i hope you go from strength to strength. That said, Vic is right to red flag a practice that too many incompetent small publishers use to make money out of inexperienced authors.

To associate Mundania with these companies (I'm sorely temped to name names) isn't fair I think.

victoriastrauss

12-07-2007, 12:02 AM

So far, I've been accused of taking things out of context, providing "sound bites" to convey an inaccurate message, purveying "guesses, beliefs, and opinions," implying that Mundania "cheats" authors, having it in for small presses, and, in my first negative rep point ever, putting up an "unsubstantiated" post.

I can assure all of you that the information I've provided is not unsubstantiated. It's supported by documentation in my possession (including author complaints and emails and other documents from Mundania itself). Where something is my opinion or my guess, it's clearly identified as such. Those who know me and my reputation know that I don't disseminate rumor and tart it up as fact.

As for taking things out of context...I took pains, as I always do, to accurately summarize the email that was the subject of my post. I could have reproduced the entire email rather than quoting just the two opening paragraphs and then summarizing the author purchase information that followed, but in the interest of brevity (and also copyright), I chose to do it the way I did. I suppose that could qualify as a sound bite. However, it was hardly a misleading sound bite, nor was it taken out of context (what context?). Had I posted the entire email, it would have conveyed the same picture, just in more words. Those who have received the email (and those who sent it) know this is true.

My interpretation of the meaning of the email--that it signals a possible shift toward an author-supported publishing model, which for authors is not a good thing--is my opinion and clearly identified as such. Others are free to differ--though in doing so, they should be careful not to construe an expressed opinion as an attempt to disseminate "fact".

I didn't say that Mundania cheats authors or screws them over. I did say that there have been complaints (that's fact). I also think that publishers should not rely on their writers as an unpaid sales force or as a major customer pool (that's opinion).

I don't have it in for small presses. Professionally-run small presses do heroic work, and fill a vital niche within the wider world of publishing. However, I do think that writers deserve as much information as possible when considering whether to submit to a small press. If a small press encourages writers to buy their own books for resale because it's cheaper for the publisher to sell to authors than to risk returns from bookstores...that's something that writers need to know, because it says something important about the press's marketing philosophy.

- Victoria

AnnieColleen

12-07-2007, 01:26 AM

I did say that it is more worthwhile to put the extra money into our authors' pockets than it get spent on a bunch of returns when bookstores overorder.

I've been lurking/following the discussion, but now I'm confused.

When the bookstore orders books, they don't sell, and they're returned -- money's been spent to print the books, and the author gets no profit from them.

When the author buys books, they don't sell -- money's been spent to print the books, the author gets no profit from them, and the author's out the money to buy the books.

When the books do sell, under either scenario, everybody's happy.

It seems like your argument above is comparing apples and oranges: "put the extra money into our authors' pockets" (author buys books/books sell) vs. "it get spent on a bunch of returns when bookstores overorder" (bookstore orders books/books don't sell.) How is it better, for the author, to buy X number of books rather than have the bookstore order the same number of books? (I'm only looking from the author's point of view here since your argument above is from that perspective.)

What happens to books that are returned? Are they still available for the next bookstore/customer that wants to order?

What am I missing?

Christine N.

12-07-2007, 02:11 AM

If the author buys the books, the author has a better idea of how many they'll sell, and how many they can afford not to sell (does that make sense?). A bookstore, knowing they can return with no penalty, is more likely to overorder, therefore the books are printed and paid for, and there is more leftovers, meaning bigger loss.

Personally, I do carry my own books (not with Mundania) but I only order very small quanitites and only do it so I can go to events where no bookseller is present, or the bookseller that IS present refuses to order (which happens with large events where there are many authors with bigger houses). When I go into a store to signl, the store is responsible for it. I have a retail account with my publisher, and have the option to return them if I wish. Usually I sell enough copies to cover the invoice, I keep the leftover and sell them too, and all the proceeds go into my pocket. I never have to put money up front. I don't know if Mundania does that or not.

I make a decent profit AND get royalties, much the same as the Mundania authors. Do I want that to be the ONLY way I sell books? Heck no, but it is convenient for the occasional event, and people like meeting authors. Completely my choice to do so.

Most of the time books that come back from the store go back to the wholesaler, and the wholesaler sends them back to the publisher, who then has to store them. And that may take as much as six months to get those things back from B&T. They're nuts over there.

JMHO

MundaniaPress

12-07-2007, 02:22 AM

I've been lurking/following the discussion, but now I'm confused.

When the bookstore orders books, they don't sell, and they're returned -- money's been spent to print the books, and the author gets no profit from them.

When the author buys books, they don't sell -- money's been spent to print the books, the author gets no profit from them, and the author's out the money to buy the books.

When the books do sell, under either scenario, everybody's happy.
It seems like your argument above is comparing apples and oranges: "put the extra money into our authors' pockets" (author buys books/books sell) vs. "it get spent on a bunch of returns when bookstores overorder" (bookstore orders books/books don't sell.) How is it better, for the author, to buy X number of books rather than have the bookstore order the same number of books? (I'm only looking from the author's point of view here since your argument above is from that perspective.)
What happens to books that are returned? Are they still available for the next bookstore/customer that wants to order?

What am I missing?

The scenario you talked about above normally refers to a publisher doing print runs, using a distributor, and giving large discounts, usually 60-65%. The books were already paid for, so the only extra cost is shipping to and from for returns--still an expense if the returns are in the thousands.

For those that use print on demand, the book is printed when it is demanded. For example, let's say a bookstore orders 50 books for a signing and the author sells 10, so 40 are returned.

For the 10 that sold we pay for printing, the discount is removed and we make money, for which we pay royalties to the author.

For the 40 that were returned, we get no money (of course) but we also have to pay for the printing and shipping. The copies returned are destroyed by the wholesaler. We could pay extra shipping to have them sent to us but that's a flat $2.00 per book shipping, so the 40 would cost another $80 to be sent to us. We'd have too much into a book to resell it. The amount we pay for the printing on the destroyed copies (print on demand is 2-4 times more costly then a big print run) and the shipping, more than wipes out the money made on the 10 copies.

That's the major drawback with taking returns with print on demand. But we do take returns, where many small presses are opting to move away from that.

Recently, some of our authors requested higher discounts for larger quantities. We responded by implementing tiered increasing discounts on quantities. An author who buys their own books, sells what they sell at a signing, and takes the rest with them to the next signing. Pretty eco-friendly :-) no destroyed books.

This is all in addition to the normal distribution and sales of our books. Our policies have not changed.

Dan

Gary Clarke

12-07-2007, 02:48 AM

Make your decision based on being informed with all the facts. Don't be lead by someone's words posted here, not even mine.Dan

Dan, Thanks so much for all the time you've taken to try and shed some light on this issue. I got to say that the impression I get from both yourself and Victoria is that you're trying your damndest to do your best - both of you. I for one apreciate that. I've learnt an awful lot from this thread alone and thats bloody invaluable. It really is. So thanks, for the honesty and the time.

You probably won't get rich (very, very few ever do) but you will have fun being a celebrity -- a published author.

Dan

Can I suggest, though, that you go back and edit this bit out? For the most part ( as I know you well know) you're dealing with people here who are doing thier best to be professional writers, working hard at it, hoping to make a living at it. This line, and I have no doubt that its unintentional, makes it sound like you consider us hobbiests... at best it's mildly condesending, at worst it's a slap in the face after all the years of hard work most of us have put into our craft.

brianm

12-07-2007, 03:08 AM

This whole discussion concerned whether we force our authors to buy books. We don't. We don't now, we never did, and we never will, regardless of what people guess is our direction. They are wrong.

Dan, that is not what this discussion has been about. IMO, it has been about the changes you made to your author purchase tiers and that those changes might/maybe/perhaps could indicate Mundania is beginning to rely on its authors for the majority of its income.

Victoria said this.

I think it is legit to flag an emphasis on selling books to the author as a potential concern. A correction, or providing extra context is great. But a counter-attack with capital letters and chastisement strikes me as more off-putting than reassuring.

I agree with Victoria, as I previously stated. IMO, making the above statement does not reflect well on you and I would encourage you to reread what has really been explored in this discussion.

Unimportant

12-07-2007, 03:27 AM

Thanks, Dan.

Okay, another stupid question. I know this wouldn't work for a brand new small press, but Mundania has been around for yonkers and so they probably has a good idea of how many copies of a book in X genre by a new author will sell. Wouldn't it be cheaper to do a small print run of about that number, say 200 or 500 or 2000 or whatever it is, and get distribution from there? That seems to be how the successful small presses like Bywater and Bella do it, and from what I hear they sell a lot more copies and have better distribution than their POD competitors.

victoriastrauss

12-07-2007, 03:47 AM

Can I ask why you did not even do the common courtesy of contacting us for information? Would it have hurt you to send us an email to ask about all this damning evidence? Instead you chose to simple post your opinions against our company taking one side. Is that really professional or even fair?
Writer Beware prefers to rely on documentation obtained from sources other than the companies or individuals that are focus of the complaints we receive. The reason for this is that there is a strong incentive for these companies or individuals not to tell the truth, or to spin the truth in ways that present them in a favorable light (I am not saying this applies to you. I'm just trying to explain our general policy of not contacting the companies we get complaints about). Publishers have sent us doctored contracts, and agents have sent us faked-up author-agent agreements. They've flat out lied to us about their policies, or withheld crucial information that would reflect badly on them. Others, when we publicize their responses, have accused us of bias or malice.

We choose, therefore, to rely on authors' complaints (although we don't consider everything complaint-worthy, and we never establish a file based on a single complaint--for more information on our documentation policies, see the About Us (http://www.sfwa.org/beware/about.html#Questionable) page of Writer Beware) and on supporting documentation such as contracts, correspondence, publicity material, etc.
Then when I come back to defend the accusations, I am mostly met with "thanks for the information, but you are mean" responses. When you post on a board such as this, you risk hostile responses as well as supportive ones. That's one of the fundamentals of online discourse.
Coincidentally, the author that sent you the internal posting did request to buy copies for his/her signing.This tells me that you have not identified the correct author. My only regret in posting what I did is the possibility is that blame will fall on the wrong person.
You used internal documents, for which you or the author that sent them to you, did without permission.I quoted ONE message from your authors' email loop. Do your authors sign nondisclosure agreements that prohibit them from sharing such documents with others? I can't answer that question, but I saw no confidentiality notice at the bottom of the message. In any case, I'm not bound by any nondisclosure provisions that you may or may not impose on your authors.

Also, aren't author discounts company policy? Even if such a policy is initially revealed in internal documents, it will have to be disseminated to current Mundania authors and disclosed to new Mundania authors. I understand that you're not happy that I've gone public with my opinions--but surely it shouldn't be a problem for company policy to become public knowledge.

Just as an aside, the author complaints I've received about Mundania pre-date this current brouhaha--some by many months--and have no connection to your authors' email loop.

- Victoria

brianm

12-07-2007, 03:52 AM

Pardon me by oh good grief. Go back and read her original post.

I have read this entire thread, including Victoria's post that has upset you. Apparently, you are focusing only on that post and not what she and others, including me, have said after that post.

There is no witch hunt here, only a discussion of changes being made by a publisher and of complaints received by WB about that publisher.

victoriastrauss

12-07-2007, 03:54 AM

This whole discussion concerned whether we force our authors to buy books.
No, it did not. Please point out where I said anything like this. You can't, because I didn't.
She states that is it her opinion that we are changing policies to coerce authors to buy books.
Again, please point out where I said this. Again, you can't, because I didn't.
and added a wild a$$ guess that our new policy is to force authors to buy books,
And again.

I am taking a great deal of trouble not to put words in your mouth. Please don't put words into mine.

- Victoria

Lauri B

12-07-2007, 03:57 AM

Nope, because we take more chances on lots of new authors and publish lots more books than these other small presses. And we do regularly order 100, 200, etc. of some books. But to do a proper print run, you need 5,000 or more. We can't do that and still publish 100 books a year.

Dan
Actually, the standard minimum print run where a small publisher can still make money is usually around 3,000 copies. Obviously the more you print the better the per-book breakdown. But I agree that there's no way you could print 3,000 copies of 100 books a year and still stay in business.
Many small publishers that do standard print runs offer their authors the same discount they offer their distributor or best sales accounts. Percentages vary, obviously.

Unimportant

12-07-2007, 04:13 AM

"Actually, the standard minimum print run where a small publisher can still make money is usually around 3,000 copies."

Thanks. I didn't know that. I had thought about 800 was the break-even point.