The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

[LV Dutton]

That is true, but I wasnt meaning the poor woman tossed it at him, she handed it to him or so she says. But yeah where PA is involved things tend to be over exagerated.

As for performers dont have time to read things fans give them, you seem to be underestimating performers. There are a great many out there that actually take the time to read each and every item given to them. Unlike as many would say they aren't heartless people.

[LV Dutton]

But as for that I say if it makes the writer feel better that something was given to someoone hey that's cool. Let them bask in the fact that it happened. Let them know that they gave something to someone but come on even a new author needs some hope huh?

[Lady of Prose]

well, that post didn't last long...




It's still there Sheryl. I didn't include the first sentence that was a personal note to another author.

[aruna]

English cheques are not 'legal tender' in England either, Aruna. It's a technical term. You can send a cheque of any currency anywhere in the world - it's just very time consuming and expensive for the recipient's bank to process it back to the country and bank account of the person who issued it.

It's also highly unprofessional and lazy. All my royalties from foreign publishers are paid through bank transfers; that is cheaper and much quicker, and simply the way foreign transactions are done. If PA wants to be an international player it should know this.

[Tilda]

As for performers dont have time to read things fans give them, you seem to be underestimating performers. There are a great many out there that actually take the time to read each and every item given to them. Unlike as many would say they aren't heartless people.

I don't think so. The popular performers/artists get so much stuff every time they give a public performance/appearance (not to mention all the stuff sent to them by fans by post) that it is simply impossible to delve into each gift. I've followed the career of a very popular performer, swooned by women of all ages and getting quite a few pressies every time he sets his footy out of the door. He loves his fans, but has quite readily admitted that all presents given to him are donated away. Flowers get left behind on the venue of performance. He simply has no room for them, nor time to go through them. This is standard practice among performers.
It isn't about being cold-hearted or not nice. It's about time and resources.

[aruna]

I'm not allowed on to that page. Must be the private board?

[mdin]

This is regarding the upstream discussion about British publishers being required to deposit 6 copies of every book. Please forgive me if what I'm about to post has already been posted. I didn't see it.

The practice is called "Legal Deposit." It seems to be law in almost every country.

While looking into it a little, I came across these webpages which discuss the UK law in detail:

http://www.llgc.org.uk/cla/

http://www.bl.uk/about/policies/legaldeposit.html

Which led me to the text of the actual law:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/20030028.htm

It doesn't look good for PA. Section 3 of the act discusses enforcement:

***(1) This section applies where a person (in this section, "the publisher") who is required by or under this Act to deliver anything to an address specified by a deposit library, or to a deposit library, has failed to comply with that obligation.
*
(2) The library may, in accordance with rules of court, apply to the county court (or, in Scotland, to the sheriff) for an order requiring the publisher to comply with the obligation.
*
(3) If on an application under subsection (2) it appears that-
*
(a) the publisher is unable to comply with the obligation, or

(b) for any other reason, it is not appropriate to make an order under that subsection,

the court or sheriff may instead make an order requiring the publisher to pay to the library an amount which is not more than the cost of making good the failure to comply.

[Twoclots]

Yes folks we are here, all those hopes and dreams dashed, I'm going to pull the plug on the magazine advert, I won't line their pockets any more, and a final farewell thread on PA if allowed, but perhaps put it on early tomorrow morning so it stays a while. Off to work now, catch you all later.
What did PA do with your books, are they still selling them?
Cheers
Steve.
Thanks for the wake up call.

[Lady of Prose]

I'm not allowed on to that page. Must be the private board?

Thanks for catching that for me. I deleted it. Some times when I'm reading the boards I get lost switching from private to public.

[Twoclots]

Forgot to add our website.
www.twoclots.com

[aruna]

Yes folks we are here, all those hopes and dreams dashed, I'm going to pull the plug on the magazine advert, I won't line their pockets any more, and a final farewell thread on PA if allowed, but perhaps put it on early tomorrow morning so it stays a while. Off to work now, catch you all later.
What did PA do with your books, are they still selling them?
Cheers
Steve.
Thanks for the wake up call.

Well, what d'you know! Welcome Steve, we were expecting you here! :hi:

[Lady of Prose]

Welcome twoclots! (Steve) When I saw your post, I thought perhaps you would come join us. I know how disappointed you must be, after all your hard work. Some of us have been there, and know the feeling.

Sorry, for the way you've been treated at PA. You will find yourself among friends here.

[triceretops]

Welcome, Steve, to this thread and any other that catches your fancy. You're among friends here, so don't be shy. AW is a vast writing university with loads of professional advice and people who have made the grade, and others who are on their way. All writers are welcome here. Enjoy your stay.

Triceratops

[engrose]

How does PA expect u to buy out ur contract when even they dont know how well your book is going to sell? Can they see into the future? Can they or do they know something the rest of us dont? Besides the fact they are a bunch of frauds

I'm not going to buy out of my contract my book hasn't even turned to proofs yet. I have a breech of the contract on thier part. and i was misled into signing it i thought from what they said they were a Real publisher where they are not and i was never told this until AFTER i signed the contract meaning i can get out on misrepresntationa dn anyone heere that was lead in the same direction acn also.
Trish

[engrose]

PublishBritannica


A private company wholly owned by PublishAmerica, LLLP
6 Precedent Drive, Rooksley, Milton Keynes MK13 8PR

Lighning Source UK.
6 Precedent Dr., Rooksley
Milton Keynes
MK13 8PR, United KingdomPhone: +44-1908-443-555

Now, come on!
One of these two are lying.









hehe, well as i phoned one of them i can tell you which one is lying if you can't guess lol.

[engrose]

Yes folks we are here, all those hopes and dreams dashed, I'm going to pull the plug on the magazine advert, I won't line their pockets any more, and a final farewell thread on PA if allowed, but perhaps put it on early tomorrow morning so it stays a while. Off to work now, catch you all later.
What did PA do with your books, are they still selling them?
Cheers
Steve.
Thanks for the wake up call.

I'm glad to see you here i am sorry i showed you the hole in your boat but its better at the end of the day the more people that see whats oging on the better it will be for the people thinking of signing becasue they will all stop sighing one day. Good luck . WHEN (no if's here) but WHEN i get out of my contract i will tell you all how.

[engrose]

You mentioned that the "young" lady is only 22. can i ask what her age would have to do with her writing and how she reacts to the news she is being scammed?
Surely even if she was 15 or 55 she would of reacted the same?

i'm doing that read a post reply and then keep reading trick again sorry i have a lack of memory from having the 4 kids i think. I hve to answer or i forget what i was going to say.

:D

[Christine N.]

Nicola -she's a writer and doesn't know the difference between POV's??? Ugh. Another one of the "my words are gold, no one touches them," people. She seems nice though, and she IS full of enthusiasum, if she would apply the same to learning...

I remember the Nelly thing. That author wasn't going to a concert, she was going to her mother's bowling league, where Nelly happens to bowl every week. I remember that one b/c it sounded so neat. So the author did get to hand the book to Nelly in a non-concert environment.

[engrose]

Nicola -she's a writer and doesn't know the difference between POV's??? Ugh. Another one of the "my words are gold, no one touches them," people. She seems nice though, and she IS full of enthusiasum, if she would apply the same to learning...

I remember the Nelly thing. That author wasn't going to a concert, she was going to her mother's bowling league, where Nelly happens to bowl every week. I remember that one b/c it sounded so neat. So the author did get to hand the book to Nelly in a non-concert environment.

Are we still talking about the "Young" Lady here (nicola)? I didn't want to say her name incase it wasn't her but are we?

[astonwest]

It's also highly unprofessional and lazy. All my royalties from foreign publishers are paid through bank transfers; that is cheaper and much quicker, and simply the way foreign transactions are done. If PA wants to be an international player it should know this.

Personally, I really wouldn't want PA having access to my bank account and routing numbers...eek.

(of course, I'm here in the US, so...)

[xhouseboy]

You mentioned that the "young" lady is only 22. can i ask what her age would have to do with her writing and how she reacts to the news she is being scammed?
Surely even if she was 15 or 55 she would of reacted the same?

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Sorry Engrose, my fault.

I didn't mean to imply that her age had any bearing to her reaction that she was being scammed.

What I mean is that if she has such a desire to express herself through her writing, she has many more years ahead to at least try and improve her work - if she's willing to buckle down and put in the hard graft. But her experience with PA has now probably convinced her that she is the finished article, and as a consequence she seems determined to ignore any and all advice. There are some published authors who reflect upon their early unpublished work, and admit to cringing when they go back over it. There are also some who are very talented and have published when barely out their teens, but even they admit to improving with time.

A lot of authors have what they refer to as their 'bottom drawer novel', and they look at it from time to time to remind themselves how far they've yet to go, or how far they've travelled since then. That girl's PA novel should have been her starting point, not the finishing line.

[aruna]

Personally, I really wouldn't want PA having access to my bank account and routing numbers...eek.

(of course, I'm here in the US, so...)

Good point!

[engrose]

Sorry Engrose, my fault.

I didn't mean to imply that her age had any bearing to her reaction that she was being scammed.

What I mean is that if she has such a desire to express herself through her writing, she has many more years ahead to at least try and improve her work - if she's willing to buckle down and put in the hard graft. But her experience with PA has now probably convinced her that she is the finished article, and as a consequence she seems determined to ignore any and all advice. There are some published authors who reflect upon their early unpublished work, and admit to cringing when they go back over it. There are also some who are very talented and have published when barely out their teens, but even they admit to improving with time.

A lot of authors have what they refer to as their 'bottom drawer novel', and they look at it from time to time to remind themselves how far they've yet to go, or how far they've travelled since then. That girl's PA novel should have been her starting point, not the finishing line.

ok, I'm 23. i read your site and i know the history of yours that you put on that site. if you wanna swap historys i could tell you a few things that wouldn't let you know i was 23 unless i told you. i don't feel 23 i feel more like 40. i have 4 kids already. Lifes a hard road and she will learn that but when shes ready. If she wants to believe shes hit the top then let her ebcasue she will fall and when she trys with a "Real" PUblisher and gets sent away she will ahev to stop nad think. She was warned but we can't do more than that she has to learn by her own mistakes like all of us. I wish i had learnt by my mistakes but then if i had i would be a very different person and i would still ahve my manuscript sat inthe box i the attic with the ones i am working on and thats if i ever carried on writing.

[engrose]

Good point!

They would only be able to put money in not take it out

[logos1234567]

This is regarding the upstream discussion about British publishers being required to deposit 6 copies of every book. Please forgive me if what I'm about to post has already been posted. I didn't see it.

The practice is called "Legal Deposit." It seems to be law in almost every country.

While looking into it a little, I came across these webpages which discuss the UK law in detail:

http://www.llgc.org.uk/cla/ (http://www.llgc.org.uk/cla/)

http://www.bl.uk/about/policies/legaldeposit.html (http://www.bl.uk/about/policies/legaldeposit.html)

Which led me to the text of the actual law:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/20030028.htm (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/20030028.htm)

It doesn't look good for PA. Section 3 of the act discusses enforcement:



Quote:
***(1) This section applies where a person (in this section, "the publisher") who is required by or under this Act to deliver anything to an address specified by a deposit library, or to a deposit library, has failed to comply with that obligation.
*
(2) The library may, in accordance with rules of court, apply to the county court (or, in Scotland, to the sheriff) for an order requiring the publisher to comply with the obligation.
*
(3) If on an application under subsection (2) it appears that-
*
(a) the publisher is unable to comply with the obligation, or

(b) for any other reason, it is not appropriate to make an order under that subsection,

the court or sheriff may instead make an order requiring the publisher to pay to the library an amount which is not more than the cost of making good the failure to comply.


This seems to be the easiest way to stuff them (if they have not complied with it that is for their UK and Amnerican authors) - the facts are much easier to proove rather than defining what 'headquartered' in Milton Keynes legally means.

[aruna]

You never know. With so many stories of identity theft I'm getting careful with my personal details - I never used to think if this kind of stuff and I'm not paranoid, but it does happen and has happened, and I don't trust PA further than I could throw them.

I think the mattetr of unpaid and late-paid royalties is actually the most serious charge of all against PA.

[Banned-Aide]

Welcome TwoClots (Steve),
Have you been banned from the PublishAnything board yet?
Once they see you over here, you have about 30 seconds before they ban you.
Sorry you had to see the light but it is better than floundering around in the dark.

BA

[Bufty]

Re Legal Aid.

Legal Aid would not be awarded for a case such as an ex PA author taking on the company..... but.... if the company decided to sue an individual for any reason, the defendant would then be awarded legal aid to defend him/herself.

I feel Xhouseboy has injected a needed reality call here.

Legal Aid in the UK is covered by strict controls - it is not an open sack of money for everyone to dip into. To qualify, stringent conditions have to be met, and NOT exclusively related to Income.

Seems to me, the services of a competent and experienced practicing Lawyer are needed if one is to consider and pursue an individual case against PA.

True, winning the case may enable expenses to be paid, but offset that against the risks and expense. Good lawyers are expensive. What if the case never reached the Court? Who is left with the expenses then?

It's painful, and much easier said than done, but as Jim said in earlier posts, forget the book. Move on. Publication rights will revert in 7 years, or earlier if PA is exposed. They will delay, delay, delay and all the time - if competent professional guidance from Lawyers has been sought - the expenses will climb with no guarantee of refund. Plus, it may be a good guess that PA will put any complainer to the bottom of the 'release from contract' list and leave them there for as long as possible - maybe 7 years, so one is back to where one started.

Use a private lawyer if one wishes but, in my humble opinion, all that is going to expose these fraudsters is a bigger fish like EB or the glare of publicity.

E-mail Watchdog. It only takes seconds but it may work.

And contact with local Press or local writing and critique groups may stop some writers falling into the PA trap.

[Bufty]

Welcome Steve - your undernoted PA post is still up - -so maybe someone else will twig what's happening and follow you.

You will not get a big cheque, nobody does, my two queries from yesterday were pulled from the boards, straightforward queries. I shall enquire from Amazon itself on my sales, and the 3 month payment plan they are supposed to have? no doubt I shall be banned soon, as have others.

[engrose]

Welcome Steve - your undernoted PA post is still up - -so maybe someone else will twig what's happening and follow you.

has it gone i can't find it

[lauram]

Ugh, that Nicola girl is obnoxious. The fact that she didn't knowing what POV she was using or that she was changing tense, and then getting snippy with those who tried to help her is ridiculous. Also, using then instead of than.

I know I'm not the most polished writer by far, but the fact that I am aware of this is a start. She seems oblivious to her inexperience.

Also, her guestbook was basically filled with other PA authors saying, "Oh what a great book! Please sign my guestbook too!" That and her friends and family that she has mislead into believing she has really been published.

Hopefully she'll settle down with a piece of humble pie in the near future. :)

[James D. Macdonald]

It's easy to understand why PA sends checks in US dollars to British authors: They don't want you to cash the check.

Every dollar in an uncashed check is a dollar in their own bank account, earning interest for them.

PA will undoubtedly say, "But we did pay them! It's their choice if they didn't cash the check!" or words to that effect -- but it's the same out story. True but misleading.

[aruna]

It's easy to understand why PA sends checks in US dollars to British authors: They don't want you to cash the check.

Every dollar in an uncashed check is a dollar in their own bank account, earning interest for them.


Talk about thinking like a - criminal - that line of reasoning never occured to me...
:tongue

[Jaws]

I feel Xhouseboy has injected a needed reality call here.

Legal Aid in the UK is covered by strict controls - it is not an open sack of money for everyone to dip into. To qualify, stringent conditions have to be met, and NOT exclusively related to Income.
There is an even more fundamental reason that Legal Aid is not available. Legal Aid is restricted to "personal" disputes (or at least was a couple of years ago in the guidelines I have available to me). Author v. PA is not a "personal" dispute. It is a business-to-business dispute. It is therefore outside the guidelines of Legal Aid, no matter what the author's income.

This is a considerable loophole in law that is created by the presumption in contract law—and it's a presumption common in all common-law countries, which includes the US, UK, Canada, and Australia, among others—that transactions between businesses are to be treated as between sophisticated parties who knew exactly what they were getting into when they signed the contract. One can, in very limited circumstances, overcome that presumption, but it's very difficult. On the other hand, in most US states, Canada, and the UK, "trading standards" and "consumer protection" statutes that would help overcome that presumption by giving a way to sue outside of traditional contract law simply do not apply to business-to-business transactions.

[ResearchGuy]

...basically filled with other PA authors saying, "Oh what a great book! Please sign my guestbook too!" ...
PA is a largely closed little alternate universe, a cult of publishing-on-training-wheels: self-referential, mutually congratulatory, and encompassingly self-deceptive. It is what it is--most likely because it fills needs. It is not at all clear to me that anything is gained by the attempts to disabuse the satisfied residents of that universe of their illusions when they are within their own circle. (Things become more awkward during outside encounters. One writers' organization of which I am a member appears satisfied to accept a PA publication as if it were a real publishing credit. Other organizations take a different view, which comes as a rude shock to some PA authors.)

After letting it sit for a few months and seeing nothing that changed my view-- and much that reinforced it--I posted my piece on "Publishing's Alternate Universe (http://newsletters.umbachconsulting.com/TipsOnWriting-09-05.pdf)" in my little "Tips on Writing" online newsletter. Some here may find it of interest.

IMHO FWIW.

--Ken

[icerose]

What about a proof of underpaid royalties and a postmark of Sept 2nd? What will that do?

[Sheryl Nantus]

PA is a largely closed little alternate universe, a cult of publishing-on-training-wheels: self-referential, mutually congratulatory, and encompassingly self-deceptive. It is what it is--most likely because it fills needs. It is not at all clear to me that anything is gained by the attempts to disabuse the satisfied residents of that universe of their illusions when they are within their own circle. (Things become more awkward during outside encounters. One writers' organization of which I am a member appears satisfied to accept a PA publication as if it were a real publishing credit. Other organizations take a different view, which comes as a rude shock to some PA authors.)

After letting it sit for a few months and seeing nothing that changed my view-- and much that reinforced it--I posted my piece on "Publishing's Alternate Universe (http://newsletters.umbachconsulting.com/TipsOnWriting-09-05.pdf)" in my little "Tips on Writing" online newsletter. Some here may find it of interest.

IMHO FWIW.

--Ken

wow... excellent article!

if only it would reach the right ears...

*sighs*

again, great article!!!

[Arkie]

Ken:

Great article, well written and in-depth. You touched on the one-dollar advance. Commericial publishers advance based on expected sales. PA advances one dollar, which should clue any PA author that not much in the way of sales is expected by the publisher/printer.

[Bufty]

Ugh, that Nicola girl is obnoxious. The fact that she didn't knowing what POV she was using or that she was changing tense, and then getting snippy with those who tried to help her is ridiculous. Also, using then instead of than.

I know I'm not the most polished writer by far, but the fact that I am aware of this is a start. She seems oblivious to her inexperience.

Also, her guestbook was basically filled with other PA authors saying, "Oh what a great book! Please sign my guestbook too!" That and her friends and family that she has mislead into believing she has really been published.

Hopefully she'll settle down with a piece of humble pie in the near future. :)

The woman in question has been fully alerted to her position. If she is prepared to face up to things, she will be hurt and disappointed I am sure and may turn to the members here for support and encouragement.

[aruna]

An excellent article, Ken. Well done! Wish they could all read it. Yet what good would it do?

[Banned-Aide]

This post is on the public PA message board. I doubt it will last for 30 seconds but it's nice to see that some are seeing the light.

I got my second royalty check on Saturday and my boyfriend and I spent a good ten minutes laughing about it. I'm happy I got published, but honestly until our books are stocked on book store shelves and not only available online I won't be thrilled like you all seem to be. I'm not going to kiss Publish America's butt. They have a long way to go until their authors are "thrilled" about anything. I look at the business end of everything, sue me for being a realist.

I love a realist.

BA

[aruna]

Well, it's still there and it's almost a minute - the good thing is that it's on the end of a thread so it doesn't have a new copnfrontative title - so the censors might miss it. Until they read this, of course.
Meanwhile, Nicola is getting some instruction in POV:


Just testing my own knowledge here, and maybe being a lttle helpful to you, Nicola. I may not be completely right, so please, someone, if I missed it, do correct me. Thanks.
First Person:
The main character of the story, telling the story.
Second Person:
Another character in the story, telling the story.
Third Person:
A person not in the story, telling the story - a narrator.
POV . . . Point Of View :Headbang:

[DaveKuzminski]

What about a proof of underpaid royalties and a postmark of Sept 2nd? What will that do?

Save that envelope and your other proof! Those are evidence that they failed in their promises.

[ResearchGuy]

...Meanwhile, Nicola is getting some instruction in POV ...

:Headbang:
The technical term is "the blind leading the blind." The head-banging graphic is marvelously appropriate.

--Ken

[icerose]

Save that envelope and your other proof! Those are evidence that they failed in their promises.

Late royalties aren't just broken promises its a contractual breach as it says royalties will be sent out in Febuary and August and I have proof it was sent in September. I wouldn't throw away that envelope for anything. I can't tell you how big my grin was when I saw that postmark.

[Bufty]

The technical term is "the blind leading the blind." The head-banging graphic is marvelously appropriate.

--Ken

Just testing my own knowledge here, and maybe being a lttle helpful to you, Nicola. I may not be completely right, so please, someone, if I missed it, do correct me. Thanks.

First Person:
The main character of the story, telling the story.

Second Person:
Another character in the story, telling the story.

Third Person:
A person not in the story, telling the story - a narrator.

POV . . . Point Of View]


This is unbelievable! 'I may not be completely right?' This responder claims to be a full time novelist and scriptwriter, with a string of signing engagements - including ENGLAND!!

[AnneMarble]

The technical term is "the blind leading the blind." The head-banging graphic is marvelously appropriate.
Say what you will about iUniverse. Sure, they are a vanity POD. But at least when they first came into being, they had message boards that really helped their authors. IIRC they had knowledgeable staff members there giving real advice, and they also had a special program that was designed to highlight (and help) more promising authors. (They eventually got rid of the knowledgeable staff members because of the costs. But at least they tried.)

So you have a vanity POD that offered their authors better advice than PublishAmerica. You know, PA, that company that says it's not a vanity publisher, claims it is not POD, and also frequently blasts vanity publishers on their site. At least there is such a thing as an honest vanity publisher. There is no such thing as an honest PA -- which I still like to think of as VoldePrint (the printer that must not be named).

[aruna]

This is unbelievable! 'I may not be completely right?' This responder claims to be a full time novelist and scriptwriter, with a string of signing engagements - including ENGLAND!!

Amd up to now, no-one has corrected her (probably all thinking - oh, yeah... um, she must be right) and Nicola returns to THANK everyone for the good advice...:Shrug:

[postshy]

I just got my royalty (reality) cheque. No surprises! Either my book is NOT selling, or PA is ripping me off and holding my book hostage out of spite. Take your pick. I know one or the other to be true. How much, you ask ? $0.81 and $0.67 to post it. (represents 8% on one book sold heaven knows where).

FYI , my book came out in April 2003 officially and after three royalty sessions, I have the princely total (over three royalty periods) of approximately $12.00. Still I have a friend and a daughter, both PA authors, who got nothing - a big fat "0" -and they have not had their rights reverted either. PA authors are being banned left and right for asking straightforward questions yet you "newbies" still stick to your belief: "PA has given (y)our book the chance it deserves". Hilarious!!!

However, I did get a good laugh which I would like to share with you. I typed "Storyland by Roberta Jam" into Google, as I sometimes do to see if it is still out there, and guess what? The first two links lead to blank pages - well, I know that, I blanked my personal PA website out myself. Next two links are by PA advertising my book on their site. I do not know why they bother if they only sell one book in a six month period. Next Link: Absolute Write - Roberta Jam categorically states that she is not one of the happy PA authors described in Wm Meiner's Book "How to Upset a Goliath Biz." Love it!

No wonder nobody is buying my book - the Author herself is "slaying" it. Anybody checking to find out more about my book will find their way directly to this thread. Not much, but every little counts! Now I am off to write a polite letter to the IRS reiterating the fact that I strongly suspect that PA is playing games with royalty payments and letting them know why I believe this.

Welcome to the "disillusioned ones" who have recently joined us and we look forward to seeing a lot more of those smart enough to "recognize" a scam when they see one.

Postshy/Roberta - Still smiling:)

[Bufty]

Amd up to now, no-one has corrected her (probably all thinking - oh, yeah... um, she must be right) and Nicola returns to THANK everyone for the good advice...:Shrug:

I post the undernoted here simply to show that the PA Message Board rah! rah! can be effective, especially if mixed - sadly- with an apparent degree of conceit. Needless to say none of my messages to Nicola were bullying, or telling her what to do or what to think. My only post on her web site was congratulatory with a request that she contact me. My mails have all given her praise and encouragement, and facts, tempered with understanding and compassion. I tried - but one can't win every time.

il see what happens and find out for myself, i dont appreciate people telling me what to do or think, i will make my own mind up thank you. I AM a PUBLISHED author and i have listened to your views and other peoples views on this matter and now i am getting board of you trying to bully people into beleving in your ideas. i dont mean to offend you but please dont email me again, or post on my website unless it is a positive post.

Thankyou for having an interest in my book, goodbye.

[Monty]

Hello has PA even set out the checks yet?

I am owed for at least 100 book sales now. But payment for the full 300 would be nice.

However once I do get check I will report the amount paid and the total books they claimed I sold verses what I can prove I sold.

100 of the 300 I can prove. the other two hundred I know I sold but on the internet is the problem of vitural inventory. Kind of like the vitural reality of the promise of ever seeing a PA book in a brick and motar store without one putting there by one's own hard work.

That being said when are the checks suppose to be sent out in August?

August 3rd? right? The accounting cut off date is July 31st for payment on sales made between feb 1st and July 31st per se to the contract.

Then there are the .com sales owed that we all get the run around on. aka the lame 90 days same as cash BS. Never saw that line in the contract on ther currect online version at there website either.

Also to there EB lawsuit a simple solution for those clowns. Name it Publish UK you morons.

That being said send my agent his check so I can get mine. monty.

[LV Dutton]

I'm not going to buy out of my contract my book hasn't even turned to proofs yet. I have a breech of the contract on thier part. and i was misled into signing it i thought from what they said they were a Real publisher where they are not and i was never told this until AFTER i signed the contract meaning i can get out on misrepresntationa dn anyone heere that was lead in the same direction acn also.
Trish

Well good cause I was kind of pissed that I was stuck where I was. I mean they do lie and contradict themselves not once but several times. But isnt that like the legal people they dont let the others read it first to make sure it makes sense.

[astonwest]

I was thinking about something just a moment ago.
I wonder if the 1000 PA books that have never sold a copy (by Clopper's own admission) are because the authors finally realized what PA really was, didn't buy any of their own book, and told everyone they know the truth.

Just a random thought within my head...

[LV Dutton]

I've noticed that sense coming to terms with the fact that I was screwed out of my book, screwed out of all that hard work, I at some pointed wanted to just curl up and cry. I have enough problems in my life without dealing with this. But I am happy to report that I have decided to just forget the book, yes finally, And work on other works that I have going plus my wedding

[Monty]

The website is still there. I have a feeling they just blocked any IP addy that came from this site.

cj

LOL there afraid of a IP located at the YMCA in Indy LOL. Like we care about them having a helocopter. We PA authors do.

Maybe we PA authors should form a class action lawsuit and sue for the aircraft LOL. monty.

[Monty]

The other websites listed are also gone, except for the publishing ones of course.

On a different note, I noticed that one of the PA authors (on a thread I assume will be gone soon because they are complaining) mentioned paying for a thorough editing. Is this the case?

-chris

Yes I paid for professional editing and not from PA, They approached us. AKA me and my agent. Still he should not have supplied me there contract.

[xhouseboy]

I also think Ken's brilliant article should be required reading for any potentials out there wavering as to whether to sign up with PA.

Some PA diehards in the authors' lounge were sharing tips on selling techniques. One was explaining how someone would leave a slip of paper on a cafe table at a Mall. On the paper was written: 'This is the name of that brilliant book I was telling you about, etc.' It was designed to appear as if it had been absently left behind by someone who had actually requested the information.

The author who left it there, would then linger about the Mall to see if anyone picked it up.

Surreal.

I wanted to shout at them - don't you see what this company is reducing you to?

[AnneMarble]

Some PA diehards in the authors' lounge were sharing tips on selling techniques. One was explaining how someone would leave a slip of paper on a cafe table at a Mall. On the paper was written: 'This is the name of that brilliant book I was telling you about, etc.' It was designed to appear as if it had been absently left behind by someone who had actually requested the information.
People won't fall for that one -- especially if they have e-mail accounts. Spammers use a similar technique all the time. Since shortly after I got my first e-mail account, I've been getting spam that says things like "Joe -- Here's that site I told you about! Click here!!!"

The thing is that spammers can make money off that sort of thing because 1) sending spam is so cheap that they can send out millions of copies with little cost and 2) they generally deal directly with their custo... *cough* victims, usually by a link or by asking for an e-mail response -- they don't have to rely on PA to get their product out there. (Actually from what I have read, the real money in spamming is in selling software, mailing lists, and spamming services to other spammers.) And of course, I do not endorse spamming people about your book because if you do that, you will get reported to your Internet service provide. Believe me. If that happens, you'll be lucky to get a warning. Take it from someone who has reported a few spammers. Spam is not the way to go. :box:

But while going to the trouble of putting notes on tables in malls is not as obnoxious as spamming, it is also a lot more trouble than sending out spam. Even if it were to work, let's say someone picks up that note and thinks it's legitimate. So they go into the bookstore and ask about that book. Most likely, there will be no copies of it there, and they'll be told they have to pay in advance. When they hear that, they will say "No way. Forget it." And let's say the bookstore gods are shining, and the book is actually on the shelf. This potential customer will look at the price, shriek in horror, and put the book back.

[LV Dutton]

GregSBauder



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 3
http://bb.publishamerica.com/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost_new.gif (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?p=73954#73954)Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:43 pm Post subject: PA- Glorified Vanity Press?http://bb.publishamerica.com/templates/subSilver/images/lang_english/icon_quote.gif (http://bb.publishamerica.com/posting.php?mode=quote&p=73954) PA has lied to and cheated me twice about royalties. Check out
www.absolutewrite.com (http://www.absolutewrite.com/) . There are many warnings about PA. I
found out about it at Preditors And Editors.Back to top (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=5777#top) oh looking what I found on the PAMB oh someone else has noticed LOL. hehe I went over to check things out. Hmmm... wonder how long that post is going to last

[Ken Schneider]

I think PA should dump thier message board. Reading some of the posts available to the public doesn't bode well for selling books.

I quote- "no offence xxxxxx and xxxxx, but i like my synopsis the way it is, i think it is suppose to be in second person whatever that means, and its my first ever book, so i dont really know what you too are talking about,

and hasnt been edited yet, so il wait and see what PA say.

Thanks for the advice tho." quoted.

What in this world, ever gave this person the idea that they had the knowledge to write a novel.

I assume this person would also apply for the head bakers position at the bread shop without ever having looked into a bag of flour.

Apply for the position of surgeon at the hospital upon high school graduation.

Heavy equipment operator, having never operated anything other than a car.

Add your own haughty job here________________________________

I don't have the knowledge and literary competence to compile a novel that will sell to a real publisher yet. Can I write a story from front to back? Yes. It will be a fair story, it will need much work. But, it will be a damn sight better than most PA books.

Will it sell to a publisher first trip? No. Second try? No. When will it sell? After much, much more study, work, and gaining knowledge about the craft from those who know. Get real people.

It is laughable at best.

PA is a farce, blatantly evident by what the public reads.

Delete this post if need be, my eyeballs are damn near crossed as is, and I may well go blind anyway.

Ken Schneider.

[Sheryl Nantus]

Yes I paid for professional editing and not from PA, They approached us. AKA me and my agent. Still he should not have supplied me there contract.

maybe they sent the check to your agent.

who you should really FIRE...

[Sheryl Nantus]

I think PA should dump thier message board. Reading some of the posts available to the public doesn't bode well for selling books.

I quote- "no offence xxxxxx and xxxxx, but i like my synopsis the way it is, i think it is suppose to be in second person whatever that means, and its my first ever book, so i dont really know what you too are talking about,

and hasnt been edited yet, so ilwait and see what PA say.

Thanks for the advice tho." quoted.



actually it illustrates over half of what we're talking about here - just reading the wild ideas and tips on how to sell your book, add in the discussions on which cheap and fast editing route to take and you're certain to walk away from PA if you've two grey cells to rub together.

PA - keep the board up - if nothing else it shows the potential victim the truth behind your advertising.

POV indeed...

*chuckles*

[LV Dutton]

maybe they sent the check to your agent.

who you should really FIRE...

Yeah I totallly agree, if your agent didnt even show u the contract then he wasnt a good agent. I didnt have one that was my downfall.

[xhouseboy]

AnneMarble - you're 100% correct.

But for the life of me I can't get the vision out my head of someone lurking around Malls to check if their scheme is working.

Take it one step further, and I visualise the author witnessing someone lifting this little flyer, and that individual then being stealthily stalked to see if their next port of call just might be a bookstore.

[Ken Schneider]

Take it one step further, and I visualise the author witnessing someone lifting this little flyer, and that individual then being stealthily stalked to see if their next port of call just might be a bookstore.

LOL X.

Someone is giving away their ending.

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=5639

[LV Dutton]

The post is still there and it seems that someone told the person they didnt want to hear it and if they didnt like the place why didnt they leave.

[xhouseboy]

Hey Changling, I checked out that link on your last post.

Wish I could get in there to give them my ending. The author gets arrested for harrasment.

[Ken Schneider]

Hey Changling, I checked out that link on your last post.

Wish I could get in there to give them my ending. The author gets arrested for harrasment.

My ending below.

Show don't tell.

[Rose colored glasses]

The post is still there and it seems that someone told the person they didnt want to hear it and if they didnt like the place why didnt they leave

I'm a foster parent and this is common among abused children. They will often defend and cling to the abusive parent, because they want so desperately to feel they are loved. You see the same thing with abused women - the harder the abuser pushes them away, the more they try to win his love. It's a sad pathology.

[LV Dutton]

I'm a foster parent and this is common among abused children. They will often defend and cling to the abusive parent, because they want so desperately to feel they are loved. You see the same thing with abused women - the harder the abuser pushes them away, the more they try to win his love. It's a sad pathology.

It is very sad. I was emailed by one of the PA members asking why I hadnt posted in a while. I fibbed and said I was busy. Nah not busy just figure PA is now a total waste of my time. I have faced the truth of losing my book and the work that went into it. Freaked as I got an email telling me it should be in print by the end of October lol. I'll believe it when I see it and even then what in the heck am I going to do with it? LOL. Eh well single minded people eh?

[Rose colored glasses]

This is a quote from the PAMB from Hope:

http://bb.publishamerica.com/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?p=73972#73972)Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:23 pm Post subject: http://bb.publishamerica.com/templates/subSilver/images/lang_english/icon_quote.gif (http://bb.publishamerica.com/posting.php?mode=quote&p=73972) I want to say something..I recently got an email from the owner of the site listed above, stating that she doesn't have anything to do with this, and if she knew about who was doing this, they would be banned from her forum. So, will someone please tell me why it's obvious that her 'people' still do this? Hmmm...I'm pretty sick and tired of this already. I respect my publisher. I am extremely sick and tired of these folks sneaking on here, under different names, and then putting these false claims out there. I, for one, am not going to ignore this any longer. If you have a problem with PA, handle it in a mature fashion, and not like a school yard child, starving for negative attention. If you don't like your publisher, exit out...it's really not a big deal. Why attempt to drag others through your little glorified mud slinging? Take it somewhere else and grow up!

Uh Hope, people cannot randomly join the PAMB. In fact, it took me weeks after I applied to get accepted ( once my contract was signed) and you have to give the name of your book, etc, in order to be granted membership.

[LV Dutton]

Yeah it took me till I signed the contract to get my approval, and if she thinks about it , everyone that is posting on PA is a member and has a book deal with them. Man talk about wondering through the world with blinders on.

[akaa1a]

From PAMB

""I want to say something..I recently got an email from the owner of the site listed above, stating that she doesn't have anything to do with this, and if she knew about who was doing this, they would be banned from her forum. So, will someone please tell me why it's obvious that her 'people' still do this? Hmmm...I'm pretty sick and tired of this already. I respect my publisher. I am extremely sick and tired of these folks sneaking on here, under different names, and then putting these false claims out there. I, for one, am not going to ignore this any longer. If you have a problem with PA, handle it in a mature fashion, and not like a school yard child, starving for negative attention. If you don't like your publisher, exit out...it's really not a big deal. Why attempt to drag others through your little glorified mud slinging? Take it somewhere else and grow up!""
I don't get sentence #1...who's doing WHAT to WHOM?

This post is still up...for now!
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=5777

[LV Dutton]

Yeah know that is a very good question. I mean why would she get an email from the owner of this board about the messages on the PA board? She doesnt run both. What is said on one board is one thing. I understand that not going to other people's guest books and such is bad but who knows.

[xhouseboy]

Response from one of the other PA authors to the first poster's comments that PA had robbed and cheated her:

Then why don't you leave?
The rest of us don't need, nor WANT to hear it.

Classic denial symptoms.

[Rose colored glasses]

I think she means that nobody here was the guestbook slammer? Maybe, I don't know.

[LloydBrown]

Did you notice the "And they say PA does not edit" thread? Several people are blabbing about printing errors as if that has anything to do with editing.

[LV Dutton]

Yeah I noticed that stuff on there but I guess with all that they have going on on that site they must assume others dont notice

[triceretops]

The young girl with the POV problem has stated that she will let PA edit her synop and change it into third person. She does not trust the inacurate advice given to her by her fellow PAers. How inronic is that?

Since when does PA edit your synop, let alone a manuscript?

Tri

[astonwest]

I think PA should dump thier message board. Reading some of the posts available to the public doesn't bode well for selling books.

Except the main purpose of the PA message board isn't to sell books. It's to rope in more naive writers...which is why all the joyous "I can't believe someone finally gave my book the chance it deserves" and "Oh, THANK YOU, PA!" posts remain, while the "why can't I get Borders or B&N to stock my book?" posts are pulled quicker than a booger out of a six-year-old's nose.

I quote- "no offence xxxxxx and xxxxx, but i like my synopsis the way it is, i think it is suppose to be in second person whatever that means, and its my first ever book, so i dont really know what you too are talking about,

For the life of me, I can never remember ANY synopsis I've ever read or written being in second person (you)...where does someone come up with such an idea?

[astonwest]

Since when does PA edit your synop, let alone a manuscript?

They edited my bio...they changed the KS to Kan. (when I listed the town where I currently reside)

[aruna]

The young girl with the POV problem has stated that she will let PA edit her synop and change it into third person. She does not trust the inacurate advice given to her by her fellow PAers. How inronic is that?

Since when does PA edit your synop, let alone a manuscript?

Tri

If there are any PA members here with access to post on the PA MB would you PLEASE correct that horrendous POV advice (thread: "Here is my synopsis hope you like it or something like that; Author's Lounge)? It's driving me crazy that they all seem to take it for Gospel. Do it very gently, very nicely, don't hurt anybody's feelings, don't step on anybody's toes, but please do it, for their own sake! It's painful to have it up there.

Here are a couple of links you might post on the subject, since they may not believe you:
http://teenwriting.about.com/library/weekly/aa111102e.htm (simple wording)
http://www.author-network.com/adams4.html
http://www.netauthor.org/pov.html (a bit more complex)

[mdin]

*sigh* It's the end of an era.

Most of you will have no idea what I'm talking about, but PA finally deleted their hidden bookstore. On their website they had two bookstores, one you can get to by clicking the bookstore link and another one that you had to type the URL in directly to see. The hidden bookstore was very easy to browse, had a nifty search interface, was broken down into several more sections than the public one, and was an all-around pleasure to use. It made it very easy to find books of similar subjects (and in turn, with the same covers. Some of them were right next to each other). Of course they get rid of that one and leave the barely-functioning one. God forbid they make it easy for someone to buy a book off their website. Try searching for something on that one. Oh well.

[Lady of Prose]

Did you notice the "And they say PA does not edit" thread? Several people are blabbing about printing errors as if that has anything to do with editing.

What they are doing is trying to convince themselves and others that PA's "sub-standard editing" is normal. What I am curious to see, is if all those lower case i's and other messaging shortcuts will make it into the final prints.

[Gravity]

What I am curious to see, is if all those lower case i's and other messaging shortcuts will make it into the final prints.

Lady...of course it will. What we have in that young woman is a case study of the typical PA rube: snotty, unteachable, desperate. So no worries, our friends from Frederick will leave her deathless prose exactly as she wrote it, more's the pity, and the world will have one more piece of bound drivel to deal with. But hey, her "artistic vision" remains intact, so it's a wash.

John

[engrose]

Hi all. well I just noticed something I opened the file I sent to PA containing my manuscript and I had to laugh. It is a mixture of what I wrote when I was 13 and what I have re-wrote since then. How I managed to cook that up I don't know. Hence the awful chapter on my website. I wrote it when I was 13 yrs old. lol. Every so often i got it out adn re- wrote it and well i have stuff half and half together and sent it to them. i guess its another PROVE WHAT RUBBISH THEY PRINT book
oh well this could be interesting I might let them print it for the laugh.
And at least i still have Most of the NEW manuscript maybe i can adapt it and carry on with life they can have the put otgether written by a 23 yr olf, and 13 yr old and a few chapters bewteen the 10 yrs

OH well of to do my washing :)

[Bufty]

Lady...of course it will. What we have in that young woman is a case study of the typical PA rube: snotty, unteachable, desperate. So no worries, our friends from Frederick will leave her deathless prose exactly as she wrote it, more's the pity, and the world will have one more piece of bound drivel to deal with. But hey, her "artistic vision" remains intact, so it's a wash.

John

What is so sad here to my mind, is that I think I can see a spark of something in her writing. I checked her web site. She is an absolute novice by her own admission, but if she woke up to reality and changed her attitude and worked hard with proper guidance...who knows.

[aruna]

Well, Engrose, the joke's on them! One more proof that they will publish anything.

[engrose]

Well, Engrose, the joke's on them! One more proof that they will publish anything.

excatly just means if i ever do get published with a "real" publisher i might have to use a Pen name because my names going to be on that book.
SO heres hoping it gets losts in the wide world web and NO ONE ever finds it and buys it.

[Torin]

Ugh, that Nicola girl is obnoxious. The fact that she didn't knowing what POV she was using or that she was changing tense, and then getting snippy with those who tried to help her is ridiculous. Also, using then instead of than.


It's not helpful that one person told her that first person is the main character telling the story, second person is someone NOT the main character and third is a narrator.

*sigh*

[engrose]

I have emailed her and told her in the nicest way that I could to take the advice given but take correct advice by checking that it is correct by searching the web if she has too. Not to let PA edit things unless she want's it worse off than it could already be. I pointed out the things wrong in her synopsis and told her what 1st, 2nd and 3rd person mean.

Got to go the baby is screaming, The toddler is standing on the walker attacking the fridge and the other toddler is destorying my front room.
*rolls eyes* its a wonder I had time to write a book let alone anything else.

[engrose]

Bufty just told me off :)

I am going to make a promise to him and all others. To check my posts before I post and if I notice any mistakes after I have posted to edit it and not leave it to cringe at. :D

Also to say I am sorry for all the previous posts that have been horrible to read. I have a nasty habit if you have not noticed yet to type and post without reading my work. PA are really in for a treat with my book. But I checked that maybe can't let them know to much now. lol

[Bufty]

Now that one of these two cheerleaders has her first novel in her hands at last, let's see how long she remains on the PA Message Board.

[aruna]

Bufty just told me off :)

I have a nasty habit if you have not noticed yet to type and post without reading my work.

I've got the same habit, and clumsy fingers, and a disabled finger that I can't use and a mind that is quicker than my fingers so I know the problem...

[engrose]

Now that one of these two cheerleaders has her first novel in her hands at last, let's see how long she remains on the PA Message Board.

Which cheerleaders? Did I miss something? Who has their book in her hands?

[aruna]

I think the-person-referred-to's name begins with S.

[Twoclots]

Since seeing the light yesterday on PA's royalties, how shall I say, 'descrepencies' ( mainly at my expense). I have stopped my expensive monthly magazine advert and am about to sever all links to PA on my website. They will not make any more profits on the back of my book. I am going to look into (when time allows) getting my book into pod-casting and also becoming a talking book for the visually impaired amongst us. I feel this is possibly the future of publishing (pod-casting, that is, the talking book is just a nice thing to do!), and if I'm breaking my contact with PA, they can sue and be damned!
Cheers.
Steve
www.twoclots.com (http://www.twoclots.com/)
I had thought of building a database of all disgruntled PA authors with basic details, a bit like a petition, should it ever be required for court action etc? Any thoughts?
webmaster@twoclots.com if you want to email me.

[DaveKuzminski]

If the S person is who I think, I'm fairly certain that she's already reflecting upon what she wants to accomplish and what PA can deliver. I think she's at the stage now where it's becoming evident that PA isn't what she wanted.

[Twoclots]

I'm banned from PA boards, great, freedom at last! I emailed them to tell them they had just confirmed themselves to be 'untrustworthy', shall I say (sounds better than con-men), and I shall do my utmost to bring them to justice!
Cheers
Steve.

[aka eraser]

Recently, I posted a piece about Publish America (http://www.frankbaron.com/publishamerica.htm)on my site. I got an email from a PA author yesterday who read it. He said he was satisfied with his experience with PA and didn't wish to engage in a debate. What was interesting (and revealing) though was this: His main reason for writing me was to ask if I'd please give him a list of recommended US and Canadian publishers for his next book.

So we're making a dent folks - slowly but surely.

[Bufty]

Since seeing the light yesterday on PA's royalties, how shall I say, 'descrepencies' ( mainly at my expense). I have stopped my expensive monthly magazine advert and am about to sever all links to PA on my website. They will not make any more profits on the back of my book. I am going to look into (when time allows) getting my book into pod-casting and also becoming a talking book for the visually impaired amongst us. I feel this is possibly the future of publishing (pod-casting, that is, the talking book is just a nice thing to do!), and if I'm breaking my contact with PA, they can sue and be damned!
Cheers.
Steve
www.twoclots.com (http://www.twoclots.com/)
I had thought of building a database of all disgruntled PA authors with basic details, a bit like a petition, should it ever be required for court action etc? Any thoughts?
webmaster@twoclots.com if you want to email me.

Twoclots - I think it's already been pointed out in earlier posts that the publishing rights remain with PA until your PA contract is terminated, and that what you are considering is not a recommended step. I don't think it's a case of PA suing you, it's a case of you not being able to declare to any printer or publisher that you have the publishing rights. Someone correct me if I am wrong, please.

[Twoclots]

I suspect you are right, as the first book was from experiences in 1994, I think I'll just start out all over. I don't want them to get away with what they are doing though!!!!

[postshy]

If you want people to respect your post, you need to phrase it as correctly as possible. The grammar, spelling and typing should be of your best. If you are calling yourslf a "published" author then your post should reflect your claim.
I speak only for myself when I say that I am not going to read your book if you cannot even write English. I am sure readers will feel the same way.

We all make mistakes and typos. I would be the last to say otherwise, but I do try to correct my posts before I send them, and often after I have submitted. Do I make mistakes? Of course I do - it is human to err (and I was a member of the human race last time I checked:). However, I do not want people to laugh at my claims to be a "published" (for you in the know substitute "printed") author.

What you have to say is important. You are trying to convince people and demonstrate why you feel that way, so it follows that you have to catch and hold their attention. You have to gain their respect and that is why I find it embarrassing to read some posts on the PAMB.

For those of you who have posted here. I think you have made very good points. I distinctly admire some of your "gutsiness". You have achieved more than I have, I am sure, after a year on this Board. But this is not e-mail; thousands of people are reading these Boards, so should we not demonstrate that we do not just have something to say, but know how to say it as well?

Just my thoughts and forgive any mistakes. I always make a few I am sure:) since I am not claiming to be perfect.

No offence meant to anyone!

postshy/Roberta

[Jean Marie]

I suspect you are right, as the first book was from experiences in 1994, I think I'll just start out all over. I don't want them to get away with what they are doing though!!!!

You need to be given your rights back before you can seek out a real publisher. The fact that they probably won't go to the expense of suing you is not the point. You not owning your book, however, is the point. Sorry to say, they own it for the duration of the contract. I was released from mine in July, so, I can move forward.

It's a bummer, but, hang in there and write a new book.

[Bufty]

You need to be given your rights back before you can seek out a real publisher. The fact that they probably won't go to the expense of suing you is not the point. You not owning your book, however, is the point. Sorry to say, they own it for the duration of the contract. I was released from mine in July, so, I can move forward.

It's a bummer, but, hang in there and write a new book.

In case the Board is flooded with queries as to how or why you got released from your contract - I believe the story unfolds and is discussed in this thread from Message No 22776 onwards on page 912.
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=524&page=912&pp=25

[LV Dutton]

so far with PA being my first publisher, as they so claim to be. I seem to be learning alot about the publishing world and that there are people out there that can screw you over. I guess that learning that was hard, what was even harder was learning that until I find ways out of the contract any of us PA authors have lost our work, there are some on the PA board that are happy with the way things are. And great for them. But come on. This is getting old fast. They have to know what is going on, they can't be as stupid as they are making themselves out to be. I swear they are just lousy at lying and just cant face they've been suckered.

[Rose colored glasses]

LV, they are happy to stay in denial; the fact that they get so very defensive shows that they know we speak the truth. It's too hard to hear, and facing the real publishing world is too daunting, so they prefer to stay safely nestled in the PA cocoon.

They find it easier to say that "bashers" are upset that their book was rejected or that they " didn't get rich quick." I don't think anyone expects to get rich quick, but being able to make enough to help pay the bills is a reasonable goal that we won't achieve with PA.

If they are content to run themselves ragged with marketing attempts so they can get a $20 royalty check twice a year, that's their choice. The reality is that PA didn't give us a chance to have any significant measure of success. If "the chance it deserves" is to have our books languish on the internet, then I guess PA didn't think much of them in the first place.

[aruna]

Somebody started a thread about POV on PAMB, with links to websites explainingit all. Somebody explained in simple terms - correctly. Somebody else posted the following:

Your interpretation is slightly incorrect:

1st person - You, the author, are telling the story and are active in the story.

I ran down the street after Carlson, grabbed him by the collar of his shirt, then threw him agains the wall.

2nd person - You, the author, are telling the story about someone else.

Oswald ran down the street after Carlson, grabbed him by the collar of his shirt, then threw him agains the wall.

3rd person - the story is being told from a perspective separate from the author. The tale is told through the eyes of another (but not first person), or the author is relating events as a disinterested observer.

The irate private investigator ran down the street after the perpetrator, grabbed him by the collar of his shirt, then threw him agains the wall.

edited to add:
:Headbang:

[Rose colored glasses]

LOL! She has 2 and 3 the same.

Second person would actually be " You ran down the street like an idiot so Oswald grabbed your shirt."

[aruna]

LOL! She has 2 and 3 the same.

Second person would actually be " You ran down the street like an idiot so Oswald grabbed your shirt."

1 is also incorrect. It's not you, the author who is the "I", but the protag.

[Gravity]

But come on. This is getting old fast. They have to know what is going on, they can't be as stupid as they are making themselves out to be. I swear they are just lousy at lying and just cant face they've been suckered.

LV...exactly. Let's say for argument's sake that the average PA author has at least an above-average IQ, or close enough. What's the first thing that comes into the average person's mind when they're told they've been suckered? This: "Not me! I checked them out! Only stupid people get suckered, and that's not me. No siree...I'm smart." It's a tough thing to admit to the world you've been taken, but let's look at it objectively. Con men for the most part are good at what they do...some better than others (viz. the Stooges). They know just how much to sweeten the lie with truth, and just how far to take it. What finally brings them down? That darned old hubris, overweening pride. Because sooner or later they start saying, "I'm too smart to get caught." That's when the tipping point occurs, and from then on the con unravels exponentially. I think that's where PA is right now. You simply cannot treat 14,000+ people with contempt and disdain before it comes back to bite you. There's where they are...and that gladdens my heart.

John

[Sassenach]

LV...exactly. Let's say for argument's sake that the average PA author has at least an above-average IQ, or close enough.



I'd have to say that's as false assumption--at least based upon the PAMB folks. There's some major cluelessness going on there--and many of them parted ways with reality some time ago.

[xhouseboy]

I totally agree with the comments that the current PA authors are in denial.

If Joe says John is good, and John says Joe is good, you'll only be welcome in that club if you agree that both John and Joe are good. And as a reward, they'll both agree that you're also good. Challenge that philosophy and you're out the door.

[Gravity]

Could be you're right, Sass. By "above-average IQ" I meant it takes at least of little of that to even finish writing a book...wooden, derivative, maudlin, flat, or errata-riddled as it may be.

That said, I agree with you in part. There are at least a few of the PA rah-rah squad who would have fit in well in other groups in times past. Say, the Vichy French, or the Jim Jones guys. Truth be told, they kind of remind me of the old Warner Brothers cartoon about the little yapping terrier (unnamed), toadying up to the bulldog Spike. No matter how much Spike ignores him, humiliates him, or slaps him upside the head, the terrier just grins and says, "Spike's my pal! Yeah!"

John

[Sheryl Nantus]

I totally agree with the comments that the current PA authors are in denial.

If Joe says John is good, and John says Joe is good, you'll only be welcome in that club if you agree that both John and Joe are good. And as a reward, they'll both agree that you're also good. Challenge that philosophy and you're out the door.

exactly.

and don't forget that PA fosters this philosophy with the underlying thoughts that Your Words Are Priceless and The Editors at Those Other Publishers Will Destroy Your Voice!

*rolls eyes*

the ignorance, as I've said before, is staggering in some cases. It's like they've never picked up a copy of Writers' Digest or even glanced at anything remotely resembling a writing magazine or course. They truly think that the good Lord looked down, tapped them on the shoulder and said "You Are A Writer!"

or Writter, for some of them...

no work, no toil and every word set in stone.

dang - wish I were so deluded at times...

:ROFL:

[aruna]

I think the problem lies, at least in part, in the fact that we all use words every day - the tools of writing - and so people are led to believe that writing requires no special skill. There's nothing mysterious about it, like, for instance, in playing the violin, or painting a life-like portrait, or a sculpture, or performing a graceful piece of ballet dancing. Nobody thinks they can do those things without years and years of practice and study, yet, because we all have the basics of language, and some poeple even speak extremely well, it's easy to believe that no training is required for writing. That makes it a bit of poor brother to all the other arts.
People seem to think that every word that comes out of their minds is golden, simply because "I said it", and so "it's my art".
I get the impression, by reading some of what they say, that many of them simply submit their first drafts to PA, and those first drafts are accepted; and then it's "Congratulations on getting published!"

[Dawno]

... I am going to look into (when time allows) getting my book into pod-casting and also becoming a talking book for the visually impaired amongst us. I feel this is possibly the future of publishing (pod-casting, that is, the talking book is just a nice thing to do!)...

Re Bufty's comments. You don't have the print rights but you may have the e- rights so this might be ok. I am not a lawyer but I've read upthread many times that PA doesn't hold the e-book rights - you should check that out with an attorney who specializes in literary contracts.

[Bufty]

I read somewhere that if you believe God sits on your shoulder while you write, then only God and you will read it.

[Sheryl Nantus]

I read somewhere that if you believe God sits on your shoulder while you write, then only God and you will read it.

exactly.

which is not to say that ALL PA authors aren't able to write, before I get misquoted on Someone's Website, but there seem to be a lot of posters on the PAMB who seem to figure that being a writer means never taking instruction nor attempting to improve oneself beyond the first draft.

and, of course, they're surrounded by others who feel the same way and swallow the PA tripe about the Other Publishers Who Will Warp And Destroy Your Work! - and thus the cycle continues.

I switch between feeling sorry for them and being angry at them.

more time in Purgatory, I guess...

[Bufty]

This may be a naive question, but if a UK writer signs the Release and is released from PA's Contract, and then in the eyes of Publish America breaks the gagging clause X times, exactly how does Publish America intend to claim their X x £5,000 or whatever. Going to court? Wouldn't that entail proving that the clause had in fact been broken, and how, which might in turn bring things to light that PA would wish kept in the dark? Any lawyer respond?

[roach]

and don't forget that PA fosters this philosophy with the underlying thoughts that Your Words Are Priceless and The Editors at Those Other Publishers Will Destroy Your Voice!

Slightly off-topic but aimed at lurkers:

An editor (a good editor that is) will help a writer to sharpen her voice. The idea that editing a writer's work will destroy her voice is one that I find . . . well naive is the only word that comes to mind. No one's words are "priceless" (as proven by the fact that it has taken me five minutes to write this post :)).

[Richard]

Besides, worst case scenario, if everyone hates it, you can blame your editor!

[Jaws]

By agreed motion, Encyclopedia Britannica consented to allow PA an additional 14 days to plead or otherwise respond. That means that PA must respond on or before 14 September, unless there is another motion to extend.

This is entirely routine, and in fact expected. It will not change the initial status hearing date in early October before Judge Guzman. The only non-routine part is that PA's counsel has not yet entered an appearance.

[xhouseboy]

This may be naive, but if a UK writer signs the Release and is released from PA's Contract, and then in the eyes of Publish America breaks the gagging clause X times, exactly how does Publish America intend to claim their X x £5,000 or whatever. Going to court? Wouldn't that entail proving that the clause had in fact been broken, and how, which might in turn bring things to light that PA would wish kept in the dark? Any lawyer respond?

Bufty... I'm no lawyer, but that was similar to the point I was trying to establish in an earlier post.

If PA opted for the courts, the defendant would then be entitled to apply for legal aid to defend their case.

And in my humble opinion, PA simply wouldn't risk this. They'd be too s**t scared of exposing their own criminality.

To anyone's knowledge, has PA yet even threatened legal action against any of their detractors.

[James D. Macdonald]

To anyone's knowledge, has PA yet even threatened legal action against any of their detractors.

Yes.

In at least two instances PA has complained to local police about their authors, and have had the police visit those authors.

[LV Dutton]

ISn't that kind of harsh and a little childish to send police after their own authors? I mean come on that's just stupid.

[Christine N.]

By George, LV, you've got it :) PA IS stipid. They are a bunch of stipid darfs.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[LV Dutton]

LOL, yup I finally got it. Yep yep... Took a little while.
By the way even if I hate admiting it the book they have taken from me is due out by christmas LOL. Yeah right.

[astonwest]

Of course they get rid of that one and leave the barely-functioning one. God forbid they make it easy for someone to buy a book off their website. Try searching for something on that one. Oh well.

It's a lot of work (for not a lot of payoff) to fill orders of one copy here and one copy there. They'd much rather make it worth the while by filling an order for 100 copies from an author (lotsa $$$$). It's no wonder they got rid of the functional bookstore...

The only non-routine part is that PA's counsel has not yet entered an appearance.

PA's counsel is probably trying to figure out a really good way to word the response around the ever-classic phrase, "Don't take that tone with us!"

[Dawno]

The only non-routine part is that PA's counsel has not yet entered an appearance.

Perhaps he's taking a crash remedial course. Am I remembering correctly that their "counsel" is a Real Estate lawyer?

[LV Dutton]

Wouldn't surprise me one bit

[triceretops]

Well, if he's a Real Estate lawyer at least he'll know where to find an empty plot of land cause PA is really going to get buried.

Tri

[LloydBrown]

Here's everything I can glean so far from the PA message boards. These totals range for up to about 6 months of sales, by poster's login identity.

Anne Lebrecht "very small"
The Bear "small"
Freedoms Call "40 copies sold"
Betty Fasig "382 people"
Melissa Neill "wasn’t much money"
Melanie "dinner for my husband and I [sic]"
Fejj55 "over 100 copies"
tlm < $1,000 (with the implication that it $1,000 was a very high goal)
DavidOrange $71
(second check) $63
CJWilkes $2.09
(second check) $8 "and something"
(third check) $22.35
poetic influence "about enough for a nice breakfast"
Penni Smith "pretty darn good"
(second check) "wasn’t"
White Raven 38 books
Cbennett $28.56
Kemalan $45.40
Paperbackwriter $5.19
Crobe $26.53
Pauley 99 books
Shadowsfax 135 sales
Georgia 53 sales

It looks like the winner so far is Betty Fasig, with fewer than 400 sales (for probably a $300 check).

Why would people sign away book rights for 7 years for less payment than for a single magazine article?

With their royalties based on net instead of sales price, payment twice a year instead of quarterly, evidence of royalty misrepresentation, and the claim that they don't get payment for 90 days (despite their printer's policy of payment to PA within a month clearly expressed on its website), the writer whose goal is to be PA's best-selling author is ridiculous.

It's better to be the worst-selling commercially published author than the best-selling PA vanity-published author. It pays better.

[LloydBrown]

Publish America’s Pricing Strategy

Pricing your company’s products is an aspect of marketing, and which method a company chooses to establish its prices reveals much about its goals. Pricing directly affects the public’s image of your company. Consider Wal-Mart, for example. When you think of Wal-Mart, you think of two things immediately: huge stores full of product and the lowest prices possible. Now think of the Franklin Mint: you think of mail-order catalogs, very high-quality products, and pricing such that purchasing something out of the catalog is not a spontaneous decision. Qualities associated with premier pricing include high quality product, excellent customer service, and perceived self-worth.

Knowing a manufacturer’s pricing strategy allows you to identify its target market. Clearly the Franklin Mint doesn’t expect to sell much to urban at-risk teens or illiterate migrant farm workers. Wal-Mart, on the other hand, strives to spread its net as wide as possible, enabling consumers across a wide economic band to purchase its products.

Now consider Publish America’s pricing strategy in relation to its product and its target market. The books are priced 50% higher than the average trade paperback. Not 5% higher, not 10% higher. Fifty percent. That clearly identifies them as falling under a premier pricing strategy. The perceptions of quality and service, however, are missing for book readers. Between their print-on-demand print service, their lack of editing, their clip art covers, their substandard typesetting, and their lack of even filtering the quality of the content in their books, Publish America’s products clearly don’t fall under the umbrella of superior quality products.

What about service? The average book reader buys his books in a bookstore. He browses among shelves, tables, cardboard standees and wire racks. He looks for known writers or titles, possibly being distracted by an attractive cover, or an clever title, or a well-placed display. Purchasing decisions are made in the store. The bookstore doesn’t offer much in the way of service. Its success is based on the quality of the product it sells, its ability to merchandise that product, and its pricing strategy. The average book purchaser receives no exceptional service from Publish America in exchange for this premier pricing.

The name of a publisher on the cover of a book is not relevant to a reader’s perceived self-worth at all. While many readers recognize names like Random House of Ballantine, no single book publisher has great enough prestige that people are happier when they read the same text from it as they would be from another publisher. Most readers don’t even notice the publisher aside from possibly recognizing a logo, and they certainly don’t think about the publisher when they read the book.

What about sales to the bookstores themselves? Publish America’s premier pricing, in combination with its non-returnability policy and short discount make Publish America books undesirable to booksellers. A bookstore sees no financial benefit to buying a book at full risk when the store could buy two other products that carry no risk because of their returnability.

With online sales, discounting is so commonplace that premier pricing must be backed by exceptional factors that are clearly absent in the case of Publish America. Amazon.com uses a combination of pricing strategies, primarily based on rate-of-return in order to establish market share, and then demand pricing to maximize profit, and bundling options on every page to increase sales volume. Yet Publish America’s stated sales through online resources are a mere 30,000 per year. Even if we assume that many of PA's 14,000 claimed authors are inactive, that total amounts to no more than a half-dozen books per author (and possibly as few as two).

Evidence clearly shows that a premier marketing strategy concerning selling books to a large number of unknown readers does not make sound business sense.

Yet Publish America is still printing books. A book publisher can't survive on the two sales per author PA averages online. In order to stay in business (assuming they are not artificially maintaining their business through outside funds), how are they profitable?

In what capacity does premier pricing work with books? One in which the publisher’s business model is based on selling books to the author. The author often associates the product he or she receives with the writing, and not the physical quality of the book’s cover, binding material, paper weight, and trade dress. He believes the writing to be excellent because he wrote it, thus meeting the first justification for premier pricing.

Publish America meets the second justification with the service its pre-contract service. Consider the phraseology that Publish America deals out to would-be "authors," using terms like "we put the author in full control," and their authors are "the great creative force that have carried and lifted America's imagination into the new millennium." Commercial publishers (that is, publishers whose business model revolves around selling books to the public) don’t use this obsequious, ego-stroking tone with their authors. Authors are business partners, providing an important part of the cooperative effort of creating a sellable product. The language indicates the level of service that Publish America provides for its true customers--its authors.

The last contingency for validating premier pricing is establishing a high degree of self-worth. Having a copy of your own book on hand to give or sell to a friend or to a stranger on the street provides many people with an extreme sense of satisfaction. The cultural romanticism and prestige of being an author are extremely rewarding for some people. They feel that they have achieved a lofty goal. Unfortunately, Publish America’s acceptance of an author does not validate that person’s writing. It means that they have found that person to be an acceptable customer, someone likely to buy many copies of his or her own book.

At every stage in the process, Publish America's pricing strategy reveals that its pricing strategy is antithetical to sales to readers and designed to maximize profits from its self-proclaimed authors. Authors who want readers to purchase and read their books should consider other avenues of publication to overcome this obstacle.


Permission granted to reprint and distribute this essay as long as it is not modified and is properly attributed.

[LloydBrown]

Not me.

[Bufty]

Great article, Lloyd. Hope those who should be reading it, do so.

########

And to deviate slightly, this PA poster at least admits to being confused!

I’m confused… why would you post such important questions to the message board? You must direct your questions and concerns to PA… you can only get the truth there.
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=5803

[xhouseboy]

Well said, Lloyd.

You're spot on.

And even though PA do overprice and deliver an inferior project, they know they've already created an eager and willing market for themselves - their own authors; those who don't bail out on realising this.

[engrose]

Oh my head hurts now, that was good though, just hard to read on a laptop screen. :)
well done I think you just summed PA to a T.

[Bufty]

On the PA Board, a few minutes ago, I could have sworn I saw two successive posts by one of the cheerleaders, asking 'Where are the other 14,000 Authors?' The thread concerned Marketing Ploys. The questioner suggested they could all perhaps benefit from the marketing experiences of those missing authors.

I can't trace the thread now - did anyone else spot it, or has it gone?

[James D. Macdonald]

Yo, Bufty: Is the thread you're looking for this:

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=4397&start=75

[Bufty]

Yo, Bufty: Is the thread you're looking for this:


Yes - thankyou.

[icerose]

To anyone's knowledge, has PA yet even threatened legal action against any of their detractors.

They threatened me with legal action in their response letter to the BBB for complaining to the BBB...not that the BBB is worth anything to us against PA.

[aruna]

From the horse's mouth:

Do you feel it's ethical for an author to pay a friend to order quantities of your book in order to drive up your rating and your royalties?

Do I smell desperation here?

[engrose]

When are these people going to realise their mistakes in their spelling on the PA board? And more than likely in their books? I know mine isn't great either but some of them are silly errors like writting- rather than writing.
OK I'm not perfect but I do have to cringe sometimes. Most of my errors are typos but I see the same error by the same person over and over which means it must be a spelling error rather than a typo.
I guess this is another piece of Prove that PA publish anything. My book as I never checked it after my friend proofread it is full of these errors too. (she isn't a professional proofreader mind you and I have checked it since thats how I know there are errors in it)

[James D. Macdonald]

Do you feel it's ethical for an author to pay a friend to order quantities of your book in order to drive up your rating and your royalties?

Are you ready to admit that you Paid to Get Published?

[Sassenach]

Why would people sign away book rights for 7 years for less payment than for a single magazine article?





1. They don't know any better.

2. Most are happy playing the author RPG, and probably couldn't sell a magazine story.

[LV Dutton]

Are you ready to admit that you Paid to Get Published?

not really but I guess many of us from PA can finally admit that. I didnt want to but that's basicly what happened. sucks doesnt it

[Rose colored glasses]

Does anyone know what the "recent media exposure has turned into an overwhelmingly positive experience for PublishAmerica" is? ( Where exactly was this positive media exposure?)

This is what they wrote someone on another group:



"Separately, you will be happy to know that recent media exposure has turned into an overwhelmingly positive experience for PublishAmerica.

We have seen the number of authors who submit their books to us skyrocket, more than 125 opportunity seeking new authors each day, forcing us to expand our staff even further to its current level of roughly 80 fulltime, hard-working, dedicated professionals. This year alone, we expect to be reviewing more than 30,000 submissions, more than any other publisher. We are the fastest growing traditional publisher in the world. See http://www.publishamerica.com/testimonials (http://<font%20face=) for more information."

[James D. Macdonald]

Does anyone know what the "recent media exposure has turned into an overwhelmingly positive experience for PublishAmerica" is? ( Where exactly was this positive media exposure?)


http://www.freewebs.com/truthaboutpa/mainstreampress.htm

[Rose colored glasses]

Sorry, I can't resist.



We have seen the number of authors who submit their books to us skyrocket, more than 125 opportunity seeking new authors each day,

Opportunity seeking authors? As opposed to legitimate authors or what? Ask a mainstream publisher how many submissions they receive in a day.



forcing us to expand our staff even further to its current level of roughly 80 fulltime, hard-working, dedicated professionals.

Yes, we read that editor's blog; we know how dedicated your staff is!:ROFL:


This year alone, we expect to be reviewing more than 30,000 submissions, more than any other publisher.

*cough*authormill*cough*


We are the fastest growing traditional publisher in the world.

Traditional meaning we don't do anything mainstream publishers do.


See http://www.publishamerica.com/testimonials (http://<font%20face=) for more information.

Yes, come read the gushing of the brainwashed masses...the stuff they said before reality set in.

[James D. Macdonald]

This year alone, we expect to be reviewing more than 30,000 submissions, more than any other publisher.

More than any other publisher? I wonder if they're prepared to back that up under oath, in court?

[engrose]

We have seen the number of authors who submit their books to us skyrocket, more than 125 opportunity seeking new authors each day, forcing us to expand our staff even further to its current level of roughly 80 fulltime, hard-working, dedicated professionals. This year alone, we expect to be reviewing more than 30,000 submissions, more than any other publisher. We are the fastest growing traditional publisher in the world. See http://www.publishamerica.com/testimonials (http://<font%20face=/) for more information."


They sent me an email stating this. I laughed and saved it with all my other emails because at the very top it insults me again.
CHARMING PEOPLE!!

forcing us to expand our staff even further to its current level of roughly 80 fulltime, hard-working, dedicated professionals.
80 people crammed into that tiny office poor folks. They would have more space on a train! Plus they don't know how many staff they have roughly 80 so that's what then 15?

[astonwest]

More than any other publisher? I wonder if they're prepared to back that up under oath, in court?

Maybe they mean "more than any other publisher in the city of Frederick, Maryland"? Obviously, that last part was just implied, and didn't need to be said...
;)

[xhouseboy]

Just read something from Bufty about a medium who's oh so happy to have signed up with PA.


I guess her powers must be on the wane if she didn't see this one coming.

[engrose]

My website now has my PA story on it. It's not much of a story but it puts my point across.

[mdin]

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=5808

Looks like there's another mass signing in the works, this time in Vegas. Once again it appears it'll be in the mall outside of a bookstore, I think. This one is to be a 3-day event.

[Richard]

For starters ;-)

Oranigally called 'Forever Love

[Bufty]

This one, I think, xhouseboy - it's a cracker if you have a sense of humour like mine.

Hi everyone, I am a new published author of the above book [Discovery of a Medium] and waiting for my cover. !! I can't say its all settled in on me yet, I haven't realized that I have actually achieved this goal . I think once I see it in the stores, then I can blush !
Can anyone direct me to the place on this site to set up the web page? I had my computer crash and of course lost alot of my passwords and links.

[Richard]

Dang. I think I'm in Las Vegas around then, but just missing it...

[Richard]

Mediums are on my list of people who deserve everything they get. They can fall for as many scams as they like - and consider it karma in action.

[mdin]

It looks good, Patricia.

If you notice any errors on it PLEASE tell me.

I bet if you copy the text and paste it into your word processing program (Word, Works, etc.,) it'll find most of those pesky errors. There are some other ones spellcheck won't find (like "Stop why your ahead"), but I'm sure you'll work those out soon enough. I usually have to wait a day or two before I re-edit something.

[mdin]

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=5808

Looks like there's another mass signing in the works, this time in Vegas. ...

Just realized they have a website for the event also:
http://www.wizardsofwords.com/

[engrose]

I bet if you copy the text and paste it into your word processing program (Word, Works, etc.,) it'll find most of those pesky errors. There are some other ones spellcheck won't find (like "Stop why your ahead"), but I'm sure you'll work those out soon enough. I usually have to wait a day or two before I re-edit something.

Now why didn't I think of that? It should be While not why.*rolls eyes* See why I need you guys. OK I have put it through word and got all the things I had missed. (A LOT!!) I was right about one thing I'm the latter STUPID lol.

[Duncan J Macdonald]

Just realized they have a website for the event also:
http://www.wizardsofwords.com/And one place in the text of the site, they are "Wizards For Words" . It's a four day event, three days of signings (Sat - Mon) and a close-out breakfast on Tuesday morning.

[Richard]

They're also the Djinns of Dodgy JPEGs and the Conjurors of Clip-Art, from that evidence.

[LV Dutton]

Has anyone gone to PA's website and checked out their building? OMG how are they getting 80 people in that building? Its a town house. Heck I cant get a family of four in a place that size. Yet they want their authors to visit. My fiance noticed it while he was surfing the web today. Proving once agian we are bored and have way to much time on our hands. lol.

[Rose colored glasses]

Yeah, it was that mass signing that was being discussed on the private board before I was banned, so I didn't get specific about it here. That's the event that "Mr. Platts" had posted a thread about THREE times asking for PA's support, and each time it was deleted. With the third attempt, he posted about it in the mass signing thread, and they deleted that post as well.

Now I notice all the cheerleaders kindly ask anyone posing a question to PA to do so directly through email and not on the board. Does this not raise any eyebrows? Why, if they are a legitimate and honest company, would they be afraid to answer simple questions on their board?

[LV Dutton]

Yeah, it was that mass signing that was being discussed on the private board before I was banned, so I didn't get specific about it here. That's the event that "Mr. Platts" had posted a thread about THREE times asking for PA's support, and each time it was deleted. With the third attempt, he posted about it in the mass signing thread, and they deleted that post as well.

Now I notice all the cheerleaders kindly ask anyone posing a question to PA to do so directly through email and not on the board. Does this not raise any eyebrows? Why, if they are a legitimate and honest company, would they be afraid to answer simple questions on their board?

That is a good question, I saw that on the board this morning and wondered the same thing. I was going to ask but thought well someone will. I mean if they cant get a hold of anyone ask the questions where u can. Isn't that why there is a message board?

[xhouseboy]

Bufty - at least she got one prediction right - she gonna be blushing all right.

[Trepanny Peck]

LOL! She has 2 and 3 the same.

Second person would actually be " You ran down the street like an idiot so Oswald grabbed your shirt."

I don't think I've ever read an entire novel written in the second person, now I come to think about it. Short stories, yes.

[DaveKuzminski]

And one place in the text of the site, they are "Wizards For Words" . It's a four day event, three days of signings (Sat - Mon) and a close-out breakfast on Tuesday morning.

After that, the CSI team will cordon off the site to investigate any dead books left behind even though we already know what killed them. ;)

[Banned-Aide]

Just read something from Bufty about a medium who's oh so happy to have signed up with PA.


I guess her powers must be on the wane if she didn't see this one coming.

Now THAT is funny!!!!!

:ROFL:
BA

[Lady of Prose]

I'm within driving distance of Vegas. I'm tempted to drive over and just watch to see if they report activities correctly when they return. If I thought I wouldn't be recognized, I would attempt it. Maybe I can figure a disguise and do it. Would be fun, I'm sure.

[James D. Macdonald]

Please, everyone, respect the authors. They're new, naive, and lied-to.

[ResearchGuy]

Has anyone gone to PA's website and checked out their building? OMG how are they getting 80 people in that building?...
My guess: the vast majority are independent contractors working from their own homes or other locations available to them. I doubt very much that anywhere near 80 people are actually on staff.

--Ken

[LV Dutton]

Yeah cause that would just be wrong. THat building is just tiny. lol. I have never seen a place so tiny.

[aruna]

I don't think I've ever read an entire novel written in the second person, now I come to think about it. Short stories, yes.

Novels, no; but cookery and self-help and how-to books are very often written in second person, so it's a valid option.

[aruna]

My website now has my PA story on it. It's not much of a story but it puts my point across.
Engrose:

A couple of errors:

publish it or try too.



you're very lucky



YOU'RE MISSING MONEY.

A couple of sentences need punctuation.

[xhouseboy]

My website now has my PA story on it. It's not much of a story but it puts my point across.

Well done, Engrose.

Let them have it.

I suspect that more stories like yours are destined to appear on angry authors' websites in the weeks and months to come.

If PA were a real company, operating within accepted guidelines, the expected course of action might be that they would threaten legal steps.

I'm willing to bet that PA will never go down that route, even if they issue such threats on paper.

Turkeys simply don't vote for Christmas.

[triceretops]

It's an absolute disgrace that PA didn't even have the decency/courtesy to visit their own damn authors. I've never heard of a publisher falling out of the loop like this. I've been to two Expos and pitched in to give my publishers breaks when they needed some help with the booth. I did this to show them some respect back for the many heartfelt things they did for me out of their own pocket--many, many, many times. I mean, dang, what tiny publisher highers a Disneyland publicist to hold your hand at the T.V. stations before a live broadcast, just so you won't throwup and have a nervous breakdown on the Six o'clock news? What tiny publisher gives you 25 extra copies of your own book free of charge after you've already received your max? What publisher sends you giant posters of your book so you can display them where ever you want? What publishers always pick up the tab for lunches, long distance calls, and shipping charges? What publishers paid thousands in advance and had my books in all the libraries and book stores? What publishers sent me accurate royalty checks when they were due on time?
Mine did. Because.......

They were commercial/real publishers--not printers.

........and PA would not even say "hello" to their own people.

Tri

[LV Dutton]

It's an absolute disgrace that PA didn't even have the decency/courtesy to visit their own damn authors. I've never heard of a publisher falling out of the loop like this. I've been to two Expos and pitched in to give my publishers breaks when they needed some help with the booth. I did this to show them some respect back for the many heartfelt things they did for me out of their own pocket--many, many, many times. I mean, dang, what tiny publisher highers a Disneyland publicist to hold your hand at the T.V. stations before a live broadcast, just so you won't throwup and have a nervous breakdown on the Six o'clock news? What tiny publisher gives you 25 extra copies of your own book free of charge after you've already received your max? What publisher sends you giant posters of your book so you can display them where ever you want? What publishers always pick up the tab for lunches, long distance calls, and shipping charges? What publishers paid thousands in advance and had my books in all the libraries and book stores? What publishers sent me accurate royalty checks when they were due on time?
Mine did. Because.......

They were commercial/real publishers--not printers.

........and PA would not even say "hello" to their own people.

Tri

Its really sad when that happens and believe me I am learning every day that PA is a waste of my time and talent. I couldn't believe it at first, and even going over to their site and seeing as it's called their cheerleaders, saying how much they love PA I often wonder and become confused, then I see what PA has done to authors and know that breaking away from them is the best thing, moving on to something better, moving on to someone that is willing to publish my work on the merrrit that I can write, not just because they are out to publish. I've only seen one PA author in my area besides myself, then agian I do live in a small town in Northern Wisconsin. Maybe that's how I got suckered, I live in a small town and damned near believe anything.

[astonwest]

Hi All.
I have to come to the defense of mass signings.

I believe mass signings can go well, but only if everything is set up well.
I was fortunate with mine that the store was very pro-author and bought copies of every author's book to sell at the signing (go figure, this same store is now closed down...correlation?). The trouble was, the signing was to be held in conjunction with a special "after-hours" event, where all the stores were giving lots of discounts on merchandise, and the patrons had to donate to a local charity in order to be allowed in the building. The discounts on our books (those of us who were PA authors) wasn't enough to bring our price down to what our books would regularly run through a better publisher...ugh.

Add on top of this the fact that they had multiple tables, but 4 authors to a table (one side). This was also one of the smaller stores, so we were all packed in like sardines...

(I won't dwell on the fact they set up a cheerleading squad signing copies of their calendar across the way, so we didn't get much foot traffic ourselves...)

[LV Dutton]

I dont know in my own way I figure that mass signings are kinda unfair to authors, some authors dont even get much of a chance. we had one around here but since i dont have my book yet, I havent had the chance to attend one. I was asked to join by our local Book World but as I said I've not got my book so it was a wash. I went and took a loook, large amounts of books and a few authors it was crazy to be honest.

[Cathy C]

We attended a mass signing that our small press publisher organized. It was actually a lot of fun. I got to meet some other authors in the nearby area and, because we were all local with similar interest books, a lot of residents came by just to say hi. Quite a few people went through the line and picked up an autographed copy by every single person, hoping that one of us might make it big and they'd have a valuable autograph! That was sort of flattering. Overall, I think that mass signings can be beneficial if handled well. It just depends on the publisher. (Of course, our publisher brought boxes and boxes of our books and arranged with the bookstore to tag them as they were purchased.)

[LV Dutton]

see if they are set up by the publisher then ya know that it helps the author, but when the publisher isnt involved then it kinda sucks.

[astonwest]

I think they're more productive if the authors involved all know each other, and know about the books each of them wrote, so they can re-direct potential customers to books they would rather read (e.g. I write sci-fi--the reader doesn't like sci-fi, but like romance--another author in the group writes romance).

Granted, this is getting somewhat off the topic of PA...

[James D. Macdonald]

If all the books you sell are sold at signings -- heaven help you.

Next:

Here's something that everyone here who isn't yet published (and PA counts as "not yet published" for this purpose) can do:

Go to a bookstore and get a high school grammar-and-spelling review book. Take it home and do all the exercises in it. You don't need to tell anyone, just do it. It'll sharpen the tools in your toolbox.

[JDElder]

LV- write another book man. Don't let this experience dampen your enthusiasm for writing. Don't beat yourself up over this. Don't let the bastards win.

I got lucky. I came into my experience with PA with pretty low expectations and on some level I exceeded them. But 37 books sold and a royalty check for a whopping $44 later, I know that if I want to take the next step and take my writing to a higher level it won't be with PA.

My first book is PA's for 7 years. Fair enough. It is what it is. But it doesn't mean that I can't write a "sequel" to the book using the same characters and create a better story. PA owns the book. They don't own my characters.

In the end, all you can do is rise above it and move on.

[Memphis Ed]

If all the books you sell are sold at signings -- heaven help you.


Unfortunately, many of the PA authors think that signings are indeed the way to sell books. Folks, it doesn't work that way.

My very first book signing was a celebration of my first book. I invited freinds, family, clients, business acquaintances. We had wine and cheese and had a long line of people getting books...over 300 hundred sold. For an evening, I felt like a rock star. Not bad.

The book store also had stores in other towns around the state. I went from rock star to rock bottom when I observed the lousy feelling of being another author in another town after the friends and family ran out.

You want to spend a long afternoon, try doing a book signing in a distant city, such as Las Vegas. People just don't view authors as celebrities just because they have written a book, even though it plays like that in dreams.

Uncle Jim is correct...if book signings are where you expect to sell books, its going to be a long winter for the new authors.

[astonwest]

Unfortunately, many of the PA authors think that signings are indeed the way to sell books. Folks, it doesn't work that way.

Unfortunately, with a PA book, it's one of the only ways...

[LV Dutton]

LV- write another book man. Don't let this experience dampen your enthusiasm for writing. Don't beat yourself up over this. Don't let the bastards win.

I got lucky. I came into my experience with PA with pretty low expectations and on some level I exceeded them. But 37 books sold and a royalty check for a whopping $44 later, I know that if I want to take the next step and take my writing to a higher level it won't be with PA.

My first book is PA's for 7 years. Fair enough. It is what it is. But it doesn't mean that I can't write a "sequel" to the book using the same characters and create a better story. PA owns the book. They don't own my characters.

In the end, all you can do is rise above it and move on.


YEah I know that feeling of being able to write a sequal to a story, the first one PA owns but I own the two stories following it, plus the two new stories I am working on and a vampire story that I was dying to get written now I can :D gotta love that.

[Twoclots]

What I really can't understand about the PA royalty rip off is that my percentage is peanuts compared to their profits. I was spending a monthly figure on quality magazine ads in a niche market (motorhomes and VW campers) The book would have been an ideal Christmas present for the 'what to buy father?' brigade. I have a great website geared for sales, by sending me a cheque for a mere 8 books, surely they have shot themselves in the foot? Are they that stupid? I know that we have at least sold in the hundreds, if not more, I can take some comfort in the fact that the book was based on our travels in 1994. So it is about time for a more modern version, perhaps via podcasting.
It's gettint the time to write again now though, still, I'll have to make time, perhaps take the laptop when we go on holiday....
Cheers for now.
Steve

[Banned-Aide]

[QUOTE=Twoclots]What I really can't understand about the PA royalty rip off is that my percentage is peanuts compared to their profits.

Twoclots,
That's the entire PA scam in a sentence. You do all the work and they reap all the profits.

I think I read somewhere on the PA board that they released 80 new books last week. With that kind of turnover, their profits keep rolling in.

BA

[triceretops]

If I'm not mistaken wasn't their weekly releases averaging somewhere around
120 to 160 titles? I know that after Atlanta Nights their output took a dip, then stablized again. I think Dave K. had watched the figures on that. With PA's claim that they'd had an overwhelming increase due to all the publicity, it would be nice to catch them in another lie of false claims. Dang, it. We should have been running tallies on them for the past year. It would give us a direct indication of their growth or decline. Anybody remember the figures?

Tri

[lauram]

Here is a marketing tip I found one author giving another on the PA boards:

Our PA books all over the internet and listed with others of like titles. For example: go to Amazon and type in "Midnight" in the book section, and it will bring up "Midnight" by Dean Koontz, and another best seller, "Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil", from which a movie was made.

Both those books will outsell yours by hundreds to one, but you will get a lot of exposure because of the hits they get.

If you take the title of my book "Chariots of Glory" and look it up on Amazon, right next to it will be "Chariots of the Gods," by Von Danniken, and "Chariots of the Gods" appears to be outselling my book by probably a thousand to one, but I get as much exposure on Amazon as does Von Danniken, and I think for that reason I may be selling a few more books than I thought would be possible at this time, and very possibly because buyers are ordering my book by mistake, thinking it is something it's not.

My favorite part is when he/she hopes that people are accidentally buying his/her book. :) Sound marketing advice.

I have never dealt with PA, but I am fascinated by the nonsense that goes on over there...

[lauram]

My wife is an avid reader, averaging a book-a-day, mostly mysteries. From time-to-time she points out glaring errors on the pages of the major publishers. Some are humorous and some are aggravating, like losing a character or reversing character names in mid-novel.

Today, she tells me about a writer who has located her mystery in the fictitious town of Delight, Arkansas. Delight, Arkansas is a small town, but very real. Just ask our own Cindy Bell, or the singer/writer, Glen Campbell, or a long-time friend of mine, Ken Thomason. All three have at one time called Delight, Arkansas home. Are you still around there Cindy?

Two days ago, my wife got a charge out of an author (St. Martin’s Press) placing Texas Tech University in Waco, Texas. Of course, Texas Tech is located in Lubbock, Texas while Waco is the home of Baylor University and the current Women’s NCAA Basketball Champions. Hey – Baylor even won a football last week! Texas Christian University (TCU) was once located in Waco before moving to Ft. Worth. I understand that TCU won a football game last Saturday also.


I am also an avid reader; not quite as avid as this guy's wife, but still I read several magazines a week and 1-3 books. I mainly find small typos in books. I did have a special edition of The Lord of the Rings which had about 30 pages missing; they were replaced with duplicates of the previous 30 pages.
Anyway, I have never read a novel where the main character's name gets changed without any sort of explanation. Or a minor character for that matter.
Maybe the "big" publisher they were reading books by was PA? :Shrug:

[lauram]

I got an email from PA today, talking about this Opt 4. Is anyone going to chose this. I was wondering because it's no editing on their part, and the book is ready within 6-8 weeks

Please let me know if anyone is chosing this opt or staying with PA editing and waiting for a yr. for their book

Yep, they don't need to "chose" the option with editing. They seem to have it under control. :)

Sorry for picking on PA stuff today, but I thought it was funny. :)

What really bothers me is that PA pretends to be a "real" publishing house and then leaves the writers with such crappy support. What real publisher would risk their name and reputation by printing a book that hasn't been edited? Or to actually tell the author they won't edit the book if you want to have it printed faster.

Also, leaving authors to resort to marketing ideas such as giving the book a title similar to a bestseller, in hopes that someone orders his/her book by accident is a pretty crappy move. So much for marketing...

I will quit trolling the PA boards for now, before I get myself in trouble... :)

[Gravity]

What real publisher would risk their name and reputation by printing a book that hasn't been edited? Or to actually tell the author they won't edit the book if you want to have it printed faster.

"Real" publishers wouldn't. PA, a printer, would...and does. ***sigh*** Anybody remember Earl Scheib, the auto painting magnate from the 60's? His ads were all over the tube: "I'll paint any car for only $39.95"...with just about the results one would expect. PA is the "Earl Scheib" of publishing.

John

[allenparker]

Novels, no; but cookery and self-help and how-to books are very often written in second person, so it's a valid option.

I have only read one. I bought it specifically because of the POV. After several chapters, I was thoroughly disjointed from the characters. It was annoying to me to be led through the story.

Allen

[allenparker]

Next:

Here's something that everyone here who isn't yet published (and PA counts as "not yet published" for this purpose) can do:

Go to a bookstore and get a high school grammar-and-spelling review book. Take it home and do all the exercises in it. You don't need to tell anyone, just do it. It'll sharpen the tools in your toolbox.

Wouldn't that be excellent advise for published authors as well? I would think all of us could use a review.

Allen

[Banned-Aide]

[QUOTE=lauram]Anyway, I have never read a novel where the main character's name gets changed without any sort of explanation. Or a minor character for that matter.

I have only read two books where the main character's name changes without an explanation. Both were PA books.
I read one or two books a week and have never seen this from a traditional publisher. There are often one or two typos, but that is it.

BA

[LV Dutton]

I am also an avid reader; not quite as avid as this guy's wife, but still I read several magazines a week and 1-3 books. I mainly find small typos in books. I did have a special edition of The Lord of the Rings which had about 30 pages missing; they were replaced with duplicates of the previous 30 pages.
Anyway, I have never read a novel where the main character's name gets changed without any sort of explanation. Or a minor character for that matter.
Maybe the "big" publisher they were reading books by was PA? :Shrug:


I've changed a charaters name half way through a book, but as you say there is normally some form of explanation. And normally I try and give one. Kinda helps the reader understand what in the heck ur doing. lol guess like you said the books they were reading where PA books.

[Susan Gable]

My favorite part is when he/she hopes that people are accidentally buying his/her book. :) Sound marketing advice.


Yeah, because that definately leads to a fan for life, a person likely to buy your next book. <sigh>

Does that comment sound like a writer hungry for readers, or a writer hungry for royalties? I mean, don't a lot of the Pro-PA arguements (especially around royalty statement time) run like this: I'm not looking to make a lot of money, I just want people to read my story/book. ???

Well, someone who buys the book by accident is not likely to read it once they realize their blunder.

Susan G.

[Memphis Ed]

My favorite part is when he/she hopes that people are accidentally buying his/her book. :) Sound marketing advice.

I have never dealt with PA, but I am fascinated by the nonsense that goes on over there...

This is beyond belief...

[Lady of Prose]

Wouldn't that be excellent advise for published authors as well? I would think all of us could use a review.

Allen

Thank you, Allen.

[AnneMarble]

Yeah, because that definately leads to a fan for life, a person likely to buy your next book. <sigh>
I think it was Mickey Spillane who said something along the lines of "Your first sentence sells that book. Your last sentence sells your next book." You'll note that he never suggested giving books titles similar to best-sellers!

Also, if you make your title really similar, could you get in trouble? I understand that titles can't be copyrighted (only trademarked). Still, couldn't you be sued for ... drat... thingie! if you come out with a book with a title so similar to a best-selling novel that people get confused?

Years ago, didn't some of the ... less reputable... paperback publishers try to exploit similar-sounding titles? I could be wrong here.

Well, someone who buys the book by accident is not likely to read it once they realize their blunder.
And they are also likely to try to return it. Does Amazon allow readers to get refunds on PA books? What happens to the royalties (such as they are) then?

[mdin]

It would give us a direct indication of their growth or decline. Anybody remember the figures?

Tri

They still vary widely. I try to look every week and gawk at the covers. Every once in awhile they'll have a huge number of books, but then the new releases stay up for almost two weeks. They're not very consistent. With the new no-edit option I suspect the numbers are going to start going up again.

[Memphis Ed]

Guys-

I just had the most unbelievable experience.

A disgruntled PA author had asked me a couple of weeks ago if they could send me a copy of their book. They expressed shame at the quality of the book itself and asked if I would take a look.

I just got it in the mail.

Folks, if you haven't ever held a PA book in your hands, get ready. This is the worst piece of s**t I have ever seen.

The quality of the writing seems to be fine. The book itself is a complete embarassment. The cover is peeling, the print is poor, the paper is cheap....oh, my gosh...

This has got to be stopped. I am in complete disbelief as to what I have just seen.

Uncle Jim, have you seen this stuff?

[mdin]

Ed,

Do you know if it's a lightning source book, or is it a book the author ordered directly from PA (which usually comes from another printer?) The physical quality of LS books seems to be pretty good in my experience.

[Lady of Prose]

Ed,

Do you know if it's a lightning source book, or is it a book the author ordered directly from PA (which usually comes from another printer?) The physical quality of LS books seems to be pretty good in my experience.

I have to inject here that my author copies are in good shape and the remainder of my box are too. The covers are not peeling and I asked a friend of mine who has had hers from the pre-order time, and hers is still in excellent condition. It seems to be a hit and miss thing.

I have several PA books that I ordered during my 'honeymoon" stage and the covers are still good on them. Most leave a lot to be desired as far as writing mechanics, but otherwise fine. Among my PA books, are two excellent, and I do mean excellent books. Also, among my PA books are some books that the rah, rah, "reviewers" gave 5 star reviews to, and they are terrible. Both in mechanics and story lines.

[ResearchGuy]

...Also, if you make your title really similar, could you get in trouble? I understand that titles can't be copyrighted (only trademarked). Still, couldn't you be sued for ... drat... thingie! if you come out with a book with a title so similar to a best-selling novel that people get confused?...
FYI FWIW I recently saw a new book titled From Insult to Injury -- it caught my eye because a couple of years ago I read a book on a different topic by the same title. A quick at Amazon finds a third one by the same title, on yet another topic. Each has a distinctive subtitle, though.

--Ken

[Memphis Ed]

Ed,

Do you know if it's a lightning source book, or is it a book the author ordered directly from PA (which usually comes from another printer?) The physical quality of LS books seems to be pretty good in my experience.

I don't know, but I'll find out. Nothing in the book indicates who printed it.

[Cathy C]

No surprise to regular followers of this thread, but the following just appeared in the September 5, 2005 edition of Publisher's Weekly (page 4 for those who subscribe):

*********
"PublishAmerica in Lawsuit

PublishAmerica, the Maryland publishing operation that has come under fire from authors, is now facing a lawsuit. Earlier this month, Encyclopaedia Britannica filed suit in Illinois District Court over a PublishAmerica imprint called PublishBritannica. The reference outfit alleges trademark infringement and seeks profits and damages, saying the name and symbol could lead to marketplace confusion.

By press time, PublishAmerica's PublishBritannica.com site indicated that references (but not the URL) had been changed to PublishBritannia. But a lawyer for Britannica said that was not sufficient. The company also said several cease-and-desist letters have gone unanswered. "We don't frequently have publishers infringing on our trademark," said a Britannica attorney."

***********
Let the games begin... ;)

[mdin]

I don't know, but I'll find out. Nothing in the book indicates who printed it.

Does the very last page have a barcode on it?

But a lawyer for Britannica said that was not sufficient.

teehee.

[astonwest]

I have to inject here that my author copies are in good shape and the remainder of my box are too. The covers are not peeling and I asked a friend of mine who has had hers from the pre-order time, and hers is still in excellent condition. It seems to be a hit and miss thing.

It might also be a matter of when the book was ordered...and how long the author has been under the ol' ball-and-chain of the evil empire...

My book's been out since mid-2002, and the earlier copies seemed not to hold up too well. A few times of reading the book (opening and closing the book a few times) and the covers indeed seemed to curl and start to peel off. Later copies (circa early 2004) didn't seem to have the same issue (though I can't recall if I put them through an open-and-close testing regimen to see...might need to do that since I need to refresh my memory on how the story went)...

If the author sent you a copy that they had read through themselves, that might explain the condition of the book...though for the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would send another person a copy in said condition.

[akaa1a]

Great Scot!

First it was the 200 Authors book...now this!
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=5856

[Sheryl Nantus]

Great Scot!

First it was the 200 Authors book...now this!
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=5856

well, it'll probably run cheaper than each author buying their own copy of this "200 Authors" book...

the logic for that one still escapes me - why they think any bookstore manager is going to pause, take a fat book from a PA author and then wade through to choose non-returnable books is beyond me.

[Lady of Prose]

If the author sent you a copy that they had read through themselves, that might explain the condition of the book...though for the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would send another person a copy in said condition.

Maybe to show the poor quality? Actually mine have been through a year of wear and tear, and are holding up. Your theory might be correct about the time.

[astonwest]

Maybe to show the poor quality? Actually mine have been through a year of wear and tear, and are holding up. Your theory might be correct about the time.

My favorite is the fact that three different sets of my books (my author's copies, a much later order of mine, and books which were ordered by a bookstore) all had VERY different shades of blue on the cover...in fact, they seemed to get darker as time went on...the earliest one is one of the author's copies, which is also the one which has the peeling covers...

very strange.

[xhouseboy]

Great Scot!

First it was the 200 Authors book...now this!
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=5856

If you follow the link on this PA author's post, he goes on about offering 1 special edition copy of his book for every 100 purchased by bookstores. He then claims that 1000 special edition copies will be printed. If I'm getting my figures right, he's hoping to sell 100,000 copies of his book.

Yeah, right.

He also writes about having studied a publication titled 'Guerilla Publicity', and this is what inspires his promo adverts.

Considering that his promo makes mention of the Katrina victims several times, and this within an advert designed to sell his book, I find that just a little bit odious. This is a technique that many sales teams rely on; connect our product to something already burnt into the public consciousness, and it will stay in their minds. I was taught the same technique by a company that I used to work for, although this is the first time I have ever seen it used in such a manner as to link a product to a human tragedy.

I agree wholeheartedly with his sentiments, but I don't think his book promo material is the place for them. And I bet he learnt the technique from Guerilla Publicity.

Or maybe I'm just being a tad too cynical, and his intentions are entirely honourable. I certainly hope so.

[PVish]

Doesn't one have to be 18 to enter into contracts?
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=5864

[Lady of Prose]

Yes, I can agree about the shade variation. There was a slight difference between the author copies and the final print copies.

[Lady of Prose]

Doesn't one have to be 18 to enter into contracts?
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=5864

Under 18 with parental consent. But are not suppose to be able to post on the boards, unless PA has changed policy on that. Maybe now, they can't post on private boards only, don't know.

[Memphis Ed]

Ed,

Do you know if it's a lightning source book, or is it a book the author ordered directly from PA (which usually comes from another printer?) The physical quality of LS books seems to be pretty good in my experience.

It comes from a batch that was ordered directly from PA. When asked to correct, the PA answer was "no way"...nice way to be treated by your publisher.

[mdin]

You'd think even PA should be able to get a refund on books printed wrongly. That's just evil.

Anyway, I learned two interesting things tonight. 1) Those who choose the fast track option get book proofs that don't have that "This book wasn't edited by us" disclaimer in them, but once the book goes to print, that disclaimer magically appears and 2) People who are choosing the edit option are now being told it takes an additional 8-10 months for their books to come out even though 8-10 months is beyond the one-year period.

Here is the letter they're sending out:


It is a pleasure to inform you that your book is entering its next production stage, and that you are now in control of the clock. We are ready to process the manuscript through our text department, and depending on how fast you want us to move production, you can have your new book in your hands as early as next month!

Option 1: super fast track. We assign the book to an editor. You are confident that the text of your manuscript reads exactly as you want it to read, which is why you gave us the final draft when we requested it in our Author Questionnaire. The editor will leave the text as-is and format your book to the specs that our printers require, and turn the manuscript into a real book, with the great PublishAmerica layout. Like all authors, you will be thrilled when we forward the page proofs for your 15-day review, during which minor changes and corrections can be made (see Par. 13 of your contract). Depending on how fast you finalize your review, your book can go to print within the next 30 days.

Option 2: fast track. You feel you need one more opportunity to go through your manuscript to make a few last-minute changes, but you can do this within one week. Upon receipt of your revised final draft, we assign the book to an editor. The editor will leave the text as-is and format your book to the specs that our printers require, and we will turn the manuscript into a real book, with the great PublishAmerica layout. Though you had just worked on the manuscript one final time, you will nonetheless be thrilled when we forward the page proofs for your 15-day review, during which minor changes and corrections can be made (see Par. 13 of your contract). Depending on how fast you finalize your review, your book can go to print within 6-8 weeks.

Option 3: you are in no particular hurry. We assign the book to an editor who will spend time going through the text to remove and correct grammar and spelling errors that may inadvertently have been left in when you submitted the final draft with your completed Author Questionnaire. The editor will not manipulate slang, dialect, or local color. The editor will also format your book to the specs that our printers require by the time we submit it for printing, great PublishAmerica layout and all. We will then forward the page proofs for your thrilling 15-day review, during which minor changes and corrections can be made (see Par. 13 of your contract). Depending on how long it must wait in line, your book can be expected to go to print between 8-10 months from now.

All three options come with an extra window of 48 hours to double-check that indeed we have incorporated the changes that you proposed as a result of your 15-day page proof review, before we move the book to cover design.

Please let me know at your earliest convenience which of these three time line options you want us to follow. Please note that once you have chosen an option, you cannot go back to the other options. If I have not heard from you within the next five business days, I will assume that you have chosen Option 3, and that time is of no primary consideration to you.

[triceretops]

Option 1) They print it as is.
Option 2) They take a little longer to print it as is
Option 3) They run their spellcheck over your spellcheck

Looks like they're trying to print books as fast as they can now. What is their huge editing staff used for? They're handling tone letters.

Tri

[DaveKuzminski]

Gee, there goes PA's argument that trade publishers take two years for your book to reach customers and they don't.

[Bufty]

I just wondered. Has anyone ever been inside the headquarters of Publish America? Are there real people in there at desks or is it just a facade and this whole fraud is being conducted in cyberspace from scattered locations?

[Gravity]

I just wondered. Has anyone ever been inside the headquarters of Publish America? Are there real people in there at desks or is it just a facade and this whole fraud is being conducted in cyberspace from scattered locations?

Yes, there are real employees at PA, but they each have approximately the lifespan of a second lieutenant on Omaha Beach, i.e., not long at all. I think mainly they're college kids that PA uses up and then spits out...as they do us all.

John

[priceless1]

XThe NavigatorX]You'd think even PA should be able to get a refund on books printed wrongly. That's just evil.
They do, Navigator. Any printer will either refund or reprint a bad book. We've sent books back any number of times for a full refund. Likewise, our customers recieve either a new book or a refund. Even though we don't use LSI, I would imagine that their policies are the same.

[roach]

The whole pitch for the "fast track, no edit" option sounds like PA--as was mentioned above--is trying to get as many books out as possible. Print them fast while the authors are still excited, before they can start poking around to learn the awful truth, and while the authors are still willing to shell out for a hundred or so copies.

I would suspect that this is a sign of desperation, trying to get as much money out of their victims as possible before they (the PA head honchos) jump ship.

[Rose colored glasses]

will then forward the page proofs for your thrilling 15-day review Your "thrilling" 15 day review? Who writes their form letters, anyway, drop outs from the advertising world? That sounds more like an ad for used cars than a letter from a publisher.

I've seen mention on the PA board of "Option 4". Wonder what that is?

[Ken Schneider]

This is from the FAQ page at P.A.'s site.

"FACT #10: As for the production time of our books, we put the author in full control. If an author wants us to release his or her book fast, we can do that. Authors who feel that their manuscript is already edited to perfection may opt to have no additional editing done, provided that we agree. Depending on how fast they submit all necessary information and materials, they may see their book go to the printer within as little as 6 weeks. If time is of no primary concern, or if we decide that additional editing is required, we assign an editor who goes through the text line by line. We don't touch style issues, we don't edit the author's voice, tone, or delivery. We edit for spelling, mechanics, grammar, and typos. In all situations, before it goes to print we send a book back to the author at least twice, to ensure that it looks exactly as the author wants it to look."

If anyone remembers how it used to be:

They said they took close care with every book, if you were in a hurry, then try a vanity publisher.

Well, they've have shed their sheeps clothing. They are a vanity outfit for sure now.
Hurry to get out a crappy book in hopes the authors will buy it. We already know that few others will buy it, except for family and close friends.

I have a question for P.A. by the way.

I sold three books in six months.

Jean Marie sold way more than that, she told me the number.

You sighted lack of sales for terminating her contract.

I assume that you can't do math, or is there another reason for letting Jean Marie out of her contract.

If you have the balls to tell the truth, e-mail me and explain why this was the case.
I sold three books, she sold way more than three. What is your logic.

My lawyer will be sending you a letter asking that question, with proof of both royalty statements, of course.

If you choose to throw my registered letter in the garbage, we, myself, and lawyer will be in contact for a visit, via registered letter. That is what is required. If you throw that letter in the trash, when we arrive in Frederick, we will show proof that we contacted you the required number of days in advance to the Sheriffs department, and get an escort to your door.

Then you can explain your logic.

[akaa1a]

I just wondered. Has anyone ever been inside the headquarters of Publish America? Are there real people in there at desks or is it just a facade and this whole fraud is being conducted in cyberspace from scattered locations?
Yep...I stopped at the florist next door to the old downtown building...Jim's was it?...to get a little something for my ...cough, cough..."editor" befiore the convention in Feb of 2003. After I rang the bell, the door opened to a flurry of activity...boxes and stacks of paper strewn about and the "staff" looking a bit frazzled when they saw me.
I asked to see my "editor" and began to step inside the brownstone when one of the staff blocked me from entering. I thought that was odd but then I asked if she would be at the convention activities and one of the gals looked at the other sort of nervously and said she was "out of town".
Then I asked if my book cover person was available and I got the same song and dance until one of them finally said she lived out of the area and wouldn't be attending either.

I remember leaving there with a definite feeling of dread. The employees seemed really unexcited and almost irritated that one of their authors from the west coast had come to bother them. Here I had flown 3000 miles, rented a car, and took a hotel for three nights to feel like that? Crimeny!

When this all happened, I knew nothing bad about PA. I checked them out through the State of Maryland and the BBB. I googled them and didn't find anything amiss and I believed the endorsement pages that were on the website...ugh! I looked for books in the online stores and even checked Brodart and Baker and Taylor to see of there were some PA children's books listed. There were a few...but now, the distribution for my book is through the Amazon Advantage program which is just about like E-bay...except I don't get to set my price.

Whew...I feel better now....OK, thought I did. I don't...
I need an aspirin!

[PVish]

The royalty woes continue:

. . .I have two books published with P.A. and another one being published at this time. My problem is, I still have not received my royalty statement for August. I have sent emails to accounting and just get an automated reply that the statements were sent out on August 31 and they would contact me within a week. I have also sent two emails to Author Support but haven't hears from them yet. Today is September 13 and those statements should have been here by now. Has anyone else run into this problem during this royalty period?. . .

and another author offers advice:

Try to be patient as this time of year is very hard on PA's staff. They are often inundated with author correspondence during royalty periods... on top of thier usual work load. Do try emailing them again in a few days if you don't hear from them and mark the message urgent or important...
I'll bet they're inundated.

[Canada James]

I remember leaving there with a definite feeling of dread. The employees seemed really unexcited and almost irritated that one of their authors from the west coast had come to bother them. Here I had flown 3000 miles, rented a car, and took a hotel for three nights to feel like that? Crimeny!

Real publishing isn't like that. My publisher and the book designer made a point in coming out to my book launch and celebrated the release with me. Last year, one of his authors had a gig in Calgary and the publisher flew there from Vancouver to meet him (the author is from Australia).

cj

[DaveKuzminski]

This is from the FAQ page at P.A.'s site.

"FACT #10: As for the production time of our books, we put the author in full control. If an author wants us to release his or her book fast, we can do that. Authors who feel that their manuscript is already edited to perfection may opt to have no additional editing done, provided that we agree.

Their agreement concerning additional editing, of course, is conditioned on not finding Willem, Larry, and Miranda's names used as villains and Ann, Victoria, James, Jenna, and Dave's names used as heroes. Apologies to anyone I left off the hero group. If I left you off the villain group, be sure to let me know. ;)

[aruna]

Real publishing isn't like that. My publisher and the book designer made a point in coming out to my book launch and celebrated the release with me. Last year, one of his authors had a gig in Calgary and the publisher flew there from Vancouver to meet him (the author is from Australia).

cj

Big publishers do that too - even with a small author like me. At the launch of each of my books they put on something - lunch at an Indian restaurant, drinks at the Picadilly Waterstone's. Once my editor and agent took the day off and came down to visit me in my home town on the South Coast. When I first went to their headquarters they were all excited to meet me and everywhere I went the staff held out copies of my book to sign. And I often had lunch with my editor in London to discuss future books, etc. I do have issues with them but they treated me well.

[Aconite]

Some PA authors who received their royalty checks recently may be lurking here, feeling guilty and embarrassed because they expected bigger checks but were told that expecting something more than they got was unreasonable because only big authors like Stephen King earn anything substantial. Ladies and gentlemen, if you're with a decent publisher, expecting more than a pittance in royalties from your book is not unreasonable. To put things in perspective:

* Had your book been published by a mainstream, advance-and-royalites-paying publisher, then you as a first-time author could reasonably have expected an advance of a few thousand dollars (the average amount varies with publisher and genre, but a few thousand is roughly average). Advances are "advances on royalties," and they are the publisher's estimation of what your book will earn in royalties for you over the course of its lifetime. (Kinda makes you wonder about PA's one-dollar advance, eh?) Advances are your income and do not have to be paid back if the book doesn't earn as much as the publisher thought it would. (That's one of the ways a real publisher "takes a chance" on its authors.)

* How long is your book? One of my first sales was a short story of 6,000 words. I sold first publication rights (the right to be the first publisher to publish the work) to an average online market for about $250, and can sell reprint rights for additional earnings. Do you think it makes sense for you to get less in royalties for your book than I got for a short story? Is your publisher doing squat for your book, if that's the case?

You have every right to wonder if something's wrong when you get those tiny checks, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[ByGrace]

An interesting development. Why did it take so long? Why couldn't they have done this to begin with? They had excuse after excuse why they did not accept returns. I wonder will they give bookstores the traditional discount as well?

http://www.publishamerica.com/return/index.asp

[NancyMehl]

Okay,

What's this about?????

(From the PA Web site)

--------------------------------------------------------


PublishAmerica makes its books returnable.
Every hour of every business day, bookstores nationwide order and stock a new PublishAmerica title. The store manager has decided to stock it because he believes that the book will sell. As a result, thousands of PublishAmerica books are sitting proudly on bookstore shelves all across the fruited plain.

And they do sell. They sell regardless of whether the bookstore can return unsold copies.

A bookstore's decision to stock a book is generally made by the manager. A bookstore typically stocks just one percent of the 190,000 new books that are published each year. For bookstores to stock all books published would mean adding 20 feet of new shelf space every day, seven days per week. Therefore bookstore managers must be selective on what books they choose.

Sometimes they base the decision on whether the book is returnable. If the book is not returnable, they sometimes choose not to stock it.

Many of our titles are already returnable. We have been running an experiment with an increasing number of our titles. It appears that once a bookstore has established a book's selling potential, and stocked the book, the store manager's decision is proven right: PublishAmerica books are competitive, high quality, reliably selling books.

Therefore, as of October 2005, we are making all of our books returnable!

Although many of our titles are currently stocked in stores, you may soon find even more bookstore managers inclined to order and stock your book now that there is zero risk involved for them.

Please bear with us as we must do this gradually, in order to enable our wholesaler Ingram to accurately activate the new status on roughly eleven thousand books that are currently in print.

Also, there will be a few exceptions initially, such as full-color picture books, and for the time being this revolutionary experiment will be limited to U.S. bookstores only. We will review the results after a few months and see what, if any, adjustments must be made.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Waiting for the other shoe to drop.....

Nancy

[Richard]

Obvious question: who pays when this happens? Somehow I doubt PA is going to swallow that hit.

[Bufty]

They surely still have to overcome the 'quality of content' stigma.

And this, which may or may not be related, is on the bottom of the PA Site - Related Articles page:-


PublishAmerica is NOT in any way a POD, vanity, or subsidy publisher, and has nothing in common with them. PublishAmerica is a traditional, royalty paying publisher.

[Section not quoted about Digital printing etc.,]

The PublishAmerica message board is overflowing with testimonials from our authors about their books being stocked in bookstores. Hundreds of bookstores across the nation stock our books.

[LloydBrown]

An interesting development. Why did it take so long? Why couldn't they have done this to begin with? They had excuse after excuse why they did not accept returns. I wonder will they give bookstores the traditional discount as well?

http://www.publishamerica.com/return/index.asp

Yeah, this would be the point where PA starts holding back HALF of the royalties, claiming it's a "reserve against returns." Or more.

[Aconite]

I stongly suspect books will be returnable if the author pays to make them so.

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

Sometimes they base the decision on whether the book is returnable. If the book is not returnable, they sometimes choose not to stock it....they admitted it?!

*checks calendar*

No, it isn't April Fool's. Weeeeeird. Maybe PA are slowly transforming themselves into a reputable publisher...

That would be surreal.

[Richard]

Also: 'fruited plain'

Is this just an Americanism I've never heard before, because really, what?

[Aconite]

Also: 'fruited plain'

Is this just an Americanism I've never heard before, because really, what?
It's from "America the Beautiful." (Many of us, too, think "what?" The lyrics are...odd.)

[Richard]

Fair enough. At least it's more interesting than 'God Save The Queen' or 'Rule Britannia'.

[Aconite]

Fair enough. At least it's more interesting than 'God Save The Queen' or 'Rule Britannia'.
Oh, yes, listening to people try to hit that high note on "fruited plain" is very, um, interesting.

Here's the first verse (the only one most people know the lyrics to). Notice the other "PA phrases."

O beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruited plain!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!