The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

[lindylou45]

Well, the private boards are all quiet on the western front because they banned one of our favorite people for speaking out. So I invited everyone to come on over here and read up on PA. I'll be out next, but I don't care. I've got a couple more people following me over here. I hope I can bring more..give them a warm welcome, will ya?

Thanks Aryn Stephens

Great job, Aryn! :Trophy: :partyguy:

[Trepanny Peck]

I bet their contract with Lightning Source specifies that they'll buy five copies of each book (maybe for a price break on the setup fees?).

Since Ingram is no longer taking PoD books for their wareshouse (and I bet B&N isn't taking 'em for their distribution center any more), they have to do something with the other three. Therefore: Five author copies!

(They've always been willing to go up to five copies for authors who requested 'em. Anything they do willingly has to be something that isn't costing them anything.)

I'd actually be mildly tempted to use this, now I think about it. I have a whole stack of original or substantially-adapted recipes (including Vegan Brownies Wot Don't Taste Vegan, which I'd happily donate to the Cause). It would be quite useful to have them as a bound book rather than printouts, .txt files or words in my head, provided I didn't have to pay. Five copies means that my mother gets one (she misses my dal now I don't live with her) and I have spares so I don't have to worry about the Beet Bhaji page becoming irredeemably stained.

[victoriastrauss]

Originally Posted by Dawno I wonder if they're depending on this (http://www.publishamerica.com/disclaimer.htm) for protection. (link is to the PA site disclaimer)Wow, that's new! Wonder when they added that. It certainly wasn't there when I signed the contracts. I'm not sure it's going to help them that much if it wasn't there at the time the contracts were signed by the majority of their authors. :crazy:It's a standard disclaimer that you'll find on many websites. It's also not new--I checked the Internet Archive, and it's present on the earliest iteration of the PA website (http://web.archive.org/web/20010401094358/http://www.publishamerica.com/) that I can access (in slightly altered form, as you can see, but essentially the same). It's down at the bottom of the page.


- Victoria

[James D. Macdonald]

1) The disclaimer's been discussed on this board before. General consensus: Not worth the pixels it's printed with; won't cover their scrawny butts.

2) It's been suggested before that using PA as a stable backup medium for your personal recipe book wouldn't be a bad plan. Just as long as you're willing to take The Pledge going in the door.

[underthecity]

I'd actually be mildly tempted to use this, now I think about it. I have a whole stack of original or substantially-adapted recipes (including Vegan Brownies Wot Don't Taste Vegan, which I'd happily donate to the Cause). It would be quite useful to have them as a bound book rather than printouts, .txt files or words in my head, provided I didn't have to pay.
Welcome to the boards, Trepanny. And what a perfect use for PA: have them print up your recipes. You probably don't plan to sell them or try to get them into bookstores, or join the cult-club at the PA boards.

Also, (as discussed previously by Dave K) what a great way to put PA out of business.

underthecity

[lindylou45]

Richard White One of the panels that I'm on is "Traditional Press vs. Small press". Let's just say, I intend to "discuss" the local Maryland publisher right here in their back yard. ;)

Fantastic! I'm sure you'll have a captive audience. Best of luck!

[Gratian Gasparri]

http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/9061.htm

reads like a cheap porn novel.

Unlike their cover prices.

[Trepanny Peck]

2) It's been suggested before that using PA as a stable backup medium for your personal recipe book wouldn't be a bad plan. Just as long as you're willing to take The Pledge going in the door.

Without having to go back and search the huge great thread, can I just confirm that the Pledge is to never, ever, ever give them any money?

[AC Crispin]

Well, bust my buttons. I had no idea that disclaimer had been sitting there. I guess they've moved it to a more prominent location than buried at the bottom of a page.

Vic, what's the newest title of the book you recently finished? Is it still The Next Messenger? Inquiring minds want to know.

-Ann C. Crispin

[James D. Macdonald]

Bet this one won't go on the Testimonials page:


Print on Demand? (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/general/2321.htm)

I have run into the problem of availability, personally. Several bookstores were interested in having me do book signings, and placed orders for a quantity of my books prior to these. In one case, they are still waiting,it has been nearly three months and no books. They have reordered... with no luck. Hastings ordered twenty... and got one! They reordered... and got one! Everyone is pointing the finger at everyone else, while I sit here twiddling my thumbs!

1) Looks like PA is showing their usual level of competence.
2) More proof that "selling books" isn't their main business.
3) Did PA read their contract? Seems like they're in breach.
4) This might illiuminate why so many bookstores call every day -- they're asking "Where are the books we ordered?"
5) This isn't the first time we've heard similar stories.

[James D. Macdonald]

The Pledge:

I swear or affirm that, since my publisher is not a vanity or subsidy publisher and has nothing in common with them, I will never give them my credit card number or write their name on the "pay to" line of a check.

[Christine N.]

I've done my duty for the day. Someone over on the SCBWI boards was considering PA (but she was on the Self Publishing board, dontyaknow) and I steered her over this a way. I also told her to run and check out Lulu and Cafepress if she really, REALLY wanted to self pub.

I'll be on the watch over there. I did find a link the the ST thread there already.

[ResearchGuy]

... I also told her to run and check out Lulu and Cafepress if she really, REALLY wanted to self pub...
There are many other options for genuine self-publishers. (It is not really self-publishing if the author does not own the ISBN, btw.) There are plenty of resources listed at http://www.norcalpa.org/benefits/links.shtml (including POD options, but much, much more). Folks really thinking about genuine self publishing should read one of the well known books on the topic (Dan Poynter's or Tom and Marilyn Ross's). Also: http://www.spannet.org/ and http://www.pma-online.org/.

--Ken

[DreamWeaver]

Perhaps the board monitor this morning is somone who's long wanted to leave such posts up, and who will be leaving PA shortly and so has nothing to lose now. The BEWARE HUNGRY WOLVES one finally disappeared sometime in the last half-hour or so.

Kris

[NancyMehl]

Welcome Aryn!!!!

You're our hero!!! :Trophy:

Nancy

[Trepanny Peck]

The Pledge:

I swear or affirm that, since my publisher is not a vanity or subsidy publisher and has nothing in common with them, I will never give them my credit card number or write their name on the "pay to" line of a check.

Sure, I was just thinking of using them as a free copy-shop.

Incidentally, does anyone have any idea how well/badly the PublishIslandica arm is doing? Iceland is an interesting country, not least because the population is so small that pretty much everybody knows everybody else. I would have thought this would be a really bad place for a company like PA to operate, because after the first few substandard books have circulated and the first royalties have gone out, pretty much everyone in the country is going to know what the problems are with the publisher and they're not going to get any new business.

[Sparhawk]

Oh yes, Jenna, I just went back and read those posts. I am so honored Ann! I mentioned earlier I just posted on the private to chat with friends, but behind the scenes, most of us are not PA supporters on the private boards. I was just trying to lie low and maintain, but I'm sick of their antics now.

Thank you for the coffee, I needed that!

Aryn

Aryn !!!!! Welcome aboard, my friend, you are in great company here !! We have conversed on the PA private chat room many times!!

-Sparhawk

[ResearchGuy]

...Incidentally, does anyone have any idea how well/badly the PublishIslandica arm is doing? ...
Dunno, but related to that, I know an author (two novels published by PA) who was sent on a visit to Iceland by PA. Apparently it was quite a whoop-te-doo and she had a fine time. She talked about PA at a local writers group meeting a couple of months ago, along with another PA-published writer (a book of poetry). They handed out PublishAmerica pens, fliers, and business cards. Interesting synergy -- sending a U.S. author (or several?) to Iceland as a promotion, and then using the author(s) back in the U.S. to promote PA with tales of the visit to Iceland. Pleasant lady, a retired English teacher (high school, I think). I have only glanced at one of her novels, enough to skim the first page or two. She recently taught a four-session local class in novel writing, or at least had announced it; I do not know how many it drew.

--Ken

[MMo]

Wow, Bonnie -- to paraphrase: "Not with a whimper, but a bang."

Virtual Kevlar and magical wardings coming your way.

Mo

[James D. Macdonald]

More about that Iceland junket here. (http://pricelineandthemedia.com/doc/aboutpa2.html)

Maybe PublishIcelandica is doing okay. If sales of PA books are to family and friends, and everyone in the entire country is either your family or a friend, well, problem solved.

[ResearchGuy]

More about that Iceland junket here. (http://pricelineandthemedia.com/doc/aboutpa2.html)

Maybe PublishIcelandica is doing okay. If sales of PA books are to family and friends, and everyone in the entire country is either your family or a friend, well, problem solved.
From that page:
Founded in 1999, PublishAmerica takes no money from authors with the exception that we can buy from them our books at a discount.

Otherwise, the principals are pathologically averse to taking cash from their authors-even to the point of refusing to sell or recommend publicity and promotion services-for fear of being labeled a Publish On Demand company.
Yes. Well. Patholog...Nice-O-MaticTM intervention

--Ken

[DaveKuzminski]

Maybe PublishIcelandica is doing okay.

So far, P&E hasn't received any complaints about PublishIcelandica. Therefore, we haven't posted a negative recommendation about it.

[M. Story]

Without having to go back and search the huge great thread, can I just confirm that the Pledge is to never, ever, ever give them any money?

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/Emotewelcome.gif Trepanny Peck (interesting name).

Happy 5/5/5! Just thought I'd throw that in so you'll always remember the day you started posting here. http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/EmoteSun.gif

[Memphis Ed]

Guys-

The Ed Williams interview segment of my show is now posted on my website. Go to www.edhorrell.com (http://www.edhorrell.com) and link on the "author" link and enjoy.

We'll be doing more on the topic and I'll keep you informed as we do.

[Passionate N.Y. Lady]

I haven’t been around PA that long, so what I suspect maybe happening there may not be so, but there seems to be a great change in the atmosphere the last couple of days. Possibly an uprising of sorts.

My question is; should PA go belly up, what will happen to our books? Will they sink with it into oblivion? (Please, do not make an attempt at humor and say, "Too late, your book was already destined for oblivion the moment you signed with them.")

My gut instinct tells me; when the owners jump ship, there is going to be an offer of substantial discounts to the authors on their books. This, I believe, will be a last ditch attempt, by the powers that be, to walk away with some money in their pockets.

Would anyone care to elucidate?

[ByGrace]

I’ve had some time to think over the sequence of events leading up to my termination. I kept wondering why they chose me (among others) to send the new amendment clause to and why they decided to release my rights back to me, especially since PA told me at the convention book signing they wanted me to sit at a table with a red table cloth in the middle of the mall (with a few other authors) because PA considered me one of their top authors.

1. I post a link to the Absolute Write website, among a list of others, about literary agents in an issue of a writers newsletter that I send out. I have about 400 subscribers, most are PA authors. I am wondering if someone forwarded to PA I was sending out this link. I got a scathing email from one author chastising me for putting the link in my newsletter. I told her I felt AW has valuable information about literary agents, publishers, and writing, and that this was my newsletter and I had the final say in what goes in it.

2. In November, I asked for help for the Alzheimer’s fundraiser I was doing and received a rude reply from Author Support. This was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I had a meeting with a rep from the AA and two Waldenbooks managers. The managers were supportive and wanted to help. They would sell my books and donate 20% to the AA. At the meeting I was told they could not get my books no matter what they tried. Corporate Headquarters said no, because of the pod and no return issue. I was embarrassed and the rep blew me off at that point. I went ahead and did the fundraiser on my own, sending out letters, emails, and press releases that I would donate a portion, if not all, of my royalties to the AA. I was doing this in honor of my father that is fading away due to Alzheimer's. So you can imagine how dear and near this was to my heart.

3. I post the clause about when royalties were to be paid on the PA message board after a newbie asked about it. They banned me and said it was inappropriate that I mentioned it. I was also banned for replying to an author about where and how to get book reviews. He put up a list on the private PA board and I backed him up that the list of reviewers were credible and would help promote his book.

4. The Women’s Civic group in Frederick asked for a donation of my books. They did send them. But this started something. The PA staffer that helped me with this was very supportive. I have to give her credit and she did have the books sent. She may have gotten flack for it, I do not know.

5. In March, The Alzheimer’s Association of Western Maryland requested a donation of books for their annual silent auction. I got Nora Roberts, my coz, to donate two of her copies, and they were going to put our books side by side. PA denied their request and sent them three skinny poetry books by unknown authors on the subject. The AA expressed their disappointment. PA sent me a rude email, “The next time there is a Rita Gerlach gala in Frederick, we’ll send your books.” In other words, don’t ask, we won’t do it.

Okay, I just revealed who I am! I've been cautious to do this. I don't really know why.

6. The Frederick News Post came out with an article about PA, a hometown company. As you all know it was not favorable. I don’t know if they are weeding out local authors or what. Could be.

7. I politely declined to sign their new amendment. They followed through on their threat to terminate my contract.

So, that’s what I’ve come up with. I’ve been a little down about it all. I feel taken, used, and abused. I tried really hard to make it work with PA, and I feel I leant support to the almost 400 PA authors through my marketing newsletter. I had a section for new releases, and for links to authors' websites. I organized a book signing at the Frederick Country Library for local PA authors, and I helped organize Authorsfest a massive booksigning event hosted by Waldenbooks.

I sent out an email to my list telling them my books are no longer being printed through Publish America. I got some emails back that were sympathetic. Some authors couldn't believe they let me go. Some asked how they could get out of their contracts.

I am glad PA released my rights back to me. I am moving on now. I am not into being 'a basher' as some people call it. But I will tell the truth and tell my story. One thing I figured out yesterday is I spent over $1600 on books. I bought copies for three titles. Plus there is the expensive to market my books. $16,000 is more than one semester at my son's college.

Some good news is another author heard about what happened to me and he contacted his literary agent about my books. She wants me to send her my work when I am ready! I’m not putting my eggs in one basket. She might take me as a client and then again she might not. I am hoping she does. I dread the whole submission process. I’m almost 50, and would like things to be a little easier. But like they say, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I went downtown last week to mail three authors copies of my books. Funny, I've had more requests to buy my historicals after termination than before from authors. Anyway, the old PA office is across the street. The sign is gone. I then had to go down Church Street and could not find their PA sign anywhere.

To all those PA staffers that were kind to me, I hope you move on.

Rita Gerlach
Editor of Stepping Stones, newsletter for writers

[ByGrace]

Guys-

The Ed Williams interview segment of my show is now posted on my website. Go to www.edhorrell.com (http://www.edhorrell.com/) and link on the "author" link and enjoy.

We'll be doing more on the topic and I'll keep you informed as we do.

Hi Ed,
I really want to listent to this. But when I click on the 'play' button, it only broadcasts a word or two then cuts out.

Am I doing something wrong?

[Memphis Ed]

Hi Ed,
I really want to listent to this. But when I click on the 'play' button, it only broadcasts a word or two then cuts out.

Am I doing something wrong?

Grace- I PMd you, but you should be getting it fine.

[DazzlinDave]

Hello everyone!

I am posting here because I got the boot at PA! After several emails to them as to why I got the boot were unanswered, I wrote a more "direct" email expressing my disappointment and DID get a reply this time telling me "Don't use that tone with us" and calling me "childish"! They ended the reply with "We are T.O.Y.S.!), which is the tile of my book and means Tired Of Your S#%@. LOL...I asked for my release and they replied they would be mailing me something but not giving up THEIR rights to sell my book!

What to do? I guess for the time I am a new "PA basher"? Which is sad because I have met a lot of wonderful people on the PA site and I want them to be successful but PA hurts them with the way they treat people!

Just wanted to say hello!

J. David Jamesson
T.O.Y.S.
www.freewebs.com/tiredofyourstuff (http://www.freewebs.com/tiredofyourstuff)

[Aconite]

My question is; should PA go belly up, what will happen to our books?

PNYL (if I may call you that), you'll find several discussions on that in the backthread. Check the Index (Indexing the Big PublishAmerica Thread), and try the Search function with variations on "PA" and "bankrupt." Pay special attention to the posts by Jaws, who's a lawyer with lots of publishing-world experience.

[Aconite]

I asked for my release and they replied they would be mailing me something but not giving up THEIR rights to sell my book!


This is a release by whose definition? Ai yi yi.

[Sher2]

I am posting here because I got the boot at PA! After several emails to them as to why I got the boot were unanswered, I wrote a more "direct" email expressing my disappointment and DID get a reply this time telling me "Don't use that tone with us" and calling me "childish"! They ended the reply with "We are T.O.Y.S.!), which is the tile of my book and means Tired Of Your S#%@. LOL...I asked for my release and they replied they would be mailing me something but not giving up THEIR rights to sell my book!

Oh, man, Dave, that just bites. It also goes to show that they're imploding over there. To send you such a retort only demonstrates that whatever small level of professionalism they once had is gone.

[MacAllister]

I guess for the time I am a new "PA basher"? Hiya, Dazzlin', and welcome. :)

We sort of reject the label "basher"--as it's essentially just so much propaganda created by HowBizarre Muckup, intended to minimize the truth of what so many refugees from PA are trying to tell the world about their experiences. Glad you found us!

Which is sad because I have met a lot of wonderful people on the PA site and I want them to be successful Jim Macdonald related a wonderful story (some great many pages upstream) about the many victims of a long-running scam that made firm lifelong friends within their ranks, and still have reunions.

It's the company we want to see fail, not the authors. The writers are writers, just like us--all with their own goals, ideals, and abilities. *shrug* That's why we're all here in the first place--some of us were never involved with PA, but feel a kinship to those who have been used and abused by this company.

So, again: welcome.

[Trapped in amber]

Hi Davehttp://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/EmoteSun.gif

Hello everyone!

I am posting here because I got the boot at PA! After several emails to them as to why I got the boot were unanswered, I wrote a more "direct" email expressing my disappointment and DID get a reply this time telling me "Don't use that tone with us" and calling me "childish"! They ended the reply with "We are T.O.Y.S.!), which is the tile of my book and means Tired Of Your S#%@. LOL...I asked for my release and they replied they would be mailing me something but not giving up THEIR rights to sell my book!

You're not the first to be told 'Don't take that tone with us', and unfortunately, I don't think you'll be the last. Be very careful about anything they send you to sign, and if it's at all possible, find a lawyer who is an expert in literary law. It's a specialised area.

What to do? I guess for the time I am a new "PA basher"? Which is sad because I have met a lot of wonderful people on the PA site and I want them to be successful but PA hurts them with the way they treat people!

Just wanted to say hello!

J. David Jamesson
T.O.Y.S.
www.freewebs.com/tiredofyourstuff (http://www.freewebs.com/tiredofyourstuff)

Hopefully, some if not all of those friends will remain friends, your argument is with Publish America. Maybe if they can't accept what's happened to you now, they will when things spiral downwards for them. You're right, PA hurts it's authors, and that's what motivates the people in this thread; some are authors with commercial publishing houses, others are PA authors, others still are unconnected but interested and horrified by what's happening to their fellow writers.

[DazzlinDave]

Yes, I can't wait to see the wording in this "release"! I read the other thread on releases here and it was an eye opener...I suppose I should find a lawyer now!?



Dazzlin

[Aconite]

Yes, I can't wait to see the wording in this "release"! I read the other thread on releases here and it was an eye opener...I suppose I should find a lawyer now!?

It wouldn't hurt. Make sure it's one with publishing law experience--a generalist won't do.

[M. Story]

I guess for the time I am a new "PA basher"? Which is sad because I have met a lot of wonderful people on the PA site and I want them to be successful but PA hurts them with the way they treat people! Just wanted to say hello! J. David Jamesson
Dazzlin Dave, http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/Emotewelcome.gif So glad you are here! Believe me, you will like this place much better than the PAMB as you are allowed to tell the truth here about PA, and you can even ask questions without fear of being banned. I, too, have met a lot of wonderful people who are still on the PAMB, but I think they will eventually see the light and make the switch. (Note: We're not really PA "bashers," but people who see it for what it is and want to keep others from making the same mistake we did by signing with them.)
----------------------
Rita, so you're "ByGrace!" Cool! I can't blame you for being down, but remember that "every end is a new beginning" and things will get better for you now that you are not attached to PA. Better days are ahead for you, I just know it. I've read your newsletter and you have worked really hard getting it out, so I know your labors will not be in vain.

Again, welcome to all of the new arrivals...
Marlene
P.S. There are sweatshirts & coffee mugs that can be purchased that advertise your being "banned" from the PAMB. http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/smilehooray.gif

[ZaZ]

Guys-

The Ed Williams interview segment

:hooray: All that ZaZ jazz at the end of the interview is priceless.

"And plus, Ed, I think, in terms of Absolute Write, you ought-a tell 'em about, God knows, if nothing else, they get to hang out with ZaZ!"

Thank you, Eds. That cracked me up!

You non-Eds are so lucky to know me. :wag:

[victoriastrauss]

I read the other thread on releases here and it was an eye opener.This really underscores for me the importance of this thread/board. We get carried away sometimes...we do silly stuff and make outrageous jokes...we get waaaaay off-topic...but what we're doing first and last is providing an invaluable service to people who truly need it. It just makes me feel really good to know that someone was able to come here, look at the content of the various threads, and get help that probably isn't available anywhere else. It makes all the craziness and frustration of PA-watching worthwhile.

In that spirit, welcome to our new members! We're glad to have you here.

- Victoria

[James D. Macdonald]

Dave, Rita, hey.

We aren't "bashers" here -- we're "truth tellers." The simple, ordinary truth is all that anyone needs to make a decision about whether to send their books to PA.

Meanwhile ... Dave, make yourself at home. I hope you look at the archives. Couple of weeks' reading, my friend.

Rita, I know you've been here for a while, so you're pretty much up to speed.

Anything you need help finding, or don't understand, let us know.

[James D. Macdonald]

They ended the reply with "We are T.O.Y.S.!), which is the tile of my book and means Tired Of Your S#%@.

What are they over there, twelve years old? Talk about "childish"!

Now you can get your "I'm With the Banned" (http://www.cafepress.com/attackbutterfly) tee-shirt.

[DreamWeaver]

Hi again, PNYL. Good to see you back!

My gut instinct tells me; when the owners jump ship, there is going to be an offer of substantial discounts to the authors on their books. This, I believe, will be a last ditch attempt, by the powers that be, to walk away with some money in their pockets.I would be very, very careful in a situation like that. The books have to be printed, they're not sitting in a warehouse somewhere. So, if PA had a last-ditch sale, what's to stop them taking your order and money, but declaring bankruptcy and closing their doors BEFORE your books are printed and shipped? Or worse, simply skipping town.

Guess I'm not a very trusting person.

Take care,
Kris
Regaining the sentence-length crown once again

[James D. Macdonald]

My question is; should PA go belly up, what will happen to our books? Will they sink with it into oblivion? (Please, do not make an attempt at humor and say, "Too late, your book was already destined for oblivion the moment you signed with them.")


Jaws will probably be by in a minute to say "it depends" with force, integrity, and actual knowledge.

Meanwhile, my gut is that the rights to your books will be tied up in court for a year or two, then you'll get the rights back and can proceed with your career.

For right now I'd suggest working on your next book, to have something cooking during the time-out.

There aren't any huge piles of already-printed books lying around anywhere (that's what POD is all about), so no, I don't see a big inventory sale.

You might want to drop by Writer Beware (http://www.sfwa.org/beware/) and read up on the end of Commonwealth, and go get a copy of Ten Percent of Nothing (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0809325756/ref=nosim/madhousemanor) and read up on the end of Dorothy Deering. Forewarned, as they say.

[Patricia]

but declaring bankruptcy and closing their doors BEFORE your books are printed and shipped? Or worse, simply skipping town.

Guess I'm not a very trusting person.

Take care,
Kris
Regaining the sentence-length crown once again

Kris,

That's what Deerings did. They left a warehouse full of un-published manuscripts. In PA's case it would be both electronic and hard copy manuscripts. In the Deering case it took about 2 years for the authors to get their rights released back to them.

[mdin]

re: PublishIcelandica

I can't imagine they're making too much money in Iceland. It really is an odd little country to set up shop in. The total population of the entire country is around 300,000 people.

[DeePower]

This is from a newsletter I belong to.

Think Xerox, Think Fiction
Xerox is working with Lulu.com to promote their
DocuTech POD machines to the creators of what they
estimate as 450,000 manuscripts annually. Their Xerox
Aspiring Authors fiction contest is pitched as
"designed to stop the cycle of rejection letters that
keep so many from seeing their work in print."

The winner will get 100 copies of their book and
$5,000, but entrants are enticed with the promise that
every entrant will get a single copy of their work for
free. (Fine print indicates that they may only
consider the first 1,000 submissions as "qualifying
entries" though."
Xerox contest
www.xerox.com/aspiringauthors (http://www.xerox.com/aspiringauthors)

Now everybody can be a published author.

On another topic. Don't you think it rather odd that in their response on the PAMB regarding the New York Times article, that PA logo head mentioned that

"*As we speak, a top PA delegation is in Seattle finalizing a marketing issues agreement with Amazon."

So PA sent a "delegation" to meet with someone from amazon. PA has revenues of $4 million, by various calculations half, or $2 million, are book sales to the authors themselves. Someone figured that no more than $1.5 was based on sales to bookstores. So why is PA meeting over a lousy $500,000? Or the better question why is amazon taking the time of day to meet with PA?

The timing seems odd to me. There are new general partners popping up. Rumors of PA for sale. Complaining authors get amendments to their contracts that make it nonexclusive and at the same time PA sends out the new reversion agreement that has the $5000 penalty.

Mmmm. You know it would kind of make sense for amazon.com to have a POD arm.


Dee

[CaoPaux]

Mmmm. You know it would kind of make sense for amazon.com to have a POD arm.Which is why Amazon just bought BookSurge: http://www.writenews.com/2005/041105_amazon_booksurge.htm

[Dawno]

I have lots of ideas about what that Amazon marketing discussion is about but they're all more suited to Take It Outside than here.

[Christine N.]

Wow! New people over here all day long! What's that - like four defectors in the last 24 hours? Not counting all the people who are "incognito" and the lurkers.

I think the Great and Mighty Pirate ship has some pretty big holes in it. Stooges, start bailing.

And for the newbies- just for fun, check out the Take it Outside board. Wanna vent on PA in a creative way? Songs go in the "Lord of the Prance" thread, and odes to the Odious in the "Verses of the Stipid Dwarf" one. (It was supposed to read "stipid darf" but my darn fingers wanted to type it correctly.)

Welcome!

[Kevin Yarbrough]

Hey Rita, glad to see you're no longer incognito.

Dave, I was gone before you came on so I don't really know you, but am glad you are here.

Ed, forgot to say 'Glad You Are Back Brother'.

Jenna, with the huge exodus that is occuring you might want to invest in a bigger ship. Before long we will have more people on this board than Noah had animals on his Ark. I for one will bring my own life jacket and long Johns from now on. We get anymore people this boat will begin to tip over from all the crazy parties.

Aryn, glad to see you here. Didn't get to see your outing, was...out. I'm sure it was great though. Keep it up girl.

BeeBomb, I miss ya darlin'. Where is my loving at?

There are two PA authors I haven't seen in awhile. Mark Dirschel and Marc Phoeinx. Wonder where they are?

[astonwest]

Sorry to hear about all the problems you've had with them, Rita...

I am not into being 'a basher' as some people call it. But I will tell the truth and tell my story.

Unfortunately, a lot of folks do just that (tell the truth and their story) and they're still lumped into the "basher" collection...

[akaa1a]

:roll::banana: :hooray:

Ed, Ed, and Ken...You guys totally made my day! Your show was terrific and I know you did a great service to authors everywhere.

I have to say that "hearing" this in real time made it all alot more vivid and frankly, stirred bad memories of this whole fiasco!
We all do a pretty good job of glossing over stuff with the humor and emoticons, but this experience has damaged and continues to damage so many!

So...to Ed, Ed, Ken and whoever else I may have missed...:Cheers: CHEERS!
And thanks for keeping the fires lit!

PS...Happy Cinco de Mayo!

[Christine N.]

And another soul is beginning to see the light...
Message:
I just found that Amazon & B&N.com are
charging $19.95 for my new book. Since it's
only 130 pages, I'm devastated by this pricing.
I searched for other 130 page PA books on
Amazon & the ones I found were all $16.95. My
first book is 227 pages & it's the same price...
$19.95. I can't make any sense of this.
Support sent me an e-mail w/their price
rationale, but that doesn't make any sense to
me, either. I mean really... 20 bucks for a 130
page book?! I don't suspect any bookstore will
carry it at that price, not to mention inevitable
non-existent on-line sales.



This poor guy... but he seems to know the score. I'll set out another deck chair.

[astonwest]

Support sent me an e-mail w/their price rationale...
I wonder if it's the same explanation they gave me (while still in the production process) when I asked how the price would be set...
"...what the customer is willing to pay..."
:scared:

[zizban]

I wonder if it's the same explanation they gave me (while still in the production process) when I asked how the price would be set...
"...what the customer is willing to pay..."
:scared:

My friend runs a POD shop in England and he sets the price per the page count. A book of poetry he published for a local professor that was 60 pages long as $7, while this huge reprint of an obcure Arabic dictionary, 700 pages, was $39.

[Richard White]

Just wanted y'all to know that both Victoria and I will be at Balticon this year, over Memorial Day Weekend. Balticon is putting on an Atlanta Nights panel and has invited all the elements of Travis Tea to sit in on it.

Ann,

Looking forward to meeting you again. See you there!

Rich

[NancyMehl]

What a day this has been....

The brave Aryn takes a stand - then makes her entrance at AW.

Classy, talented Rita comes "out of the closet." Hi, my friend!

Now, the T.O.Y.S. guy saunters in! Hi, Dave! :welcome:

We recently added the beautiful BeeBomb......and the mysterious New York Lady who has turned out to be a very classy addition. (Is there anyone I forgot???)

So glad to see you all here. You are very, very welcome. We are not author "bashers." We are PA "bashers." In fact, some of the people here will keep "bashing" until all the little PA cockroaches run for cover and never come out into the light of day again.

Some of us are ex-PA victims, and some of us are just authors who don't want to see other authors abused by scammers and liars.

Hope you feel at home here. Hope we can help you a little. <S>

Nancy (ex-Pa patsy)

[Passionate N.Y. Lady]

PNYL (if I may call you that), you'll find several discussions on that in the backthread. Check the Index (Indexing the Big PublishAmerica Thread), and try the Search function with variations on "PA" and "bankrupt." Pay special attention to the posts by Jaws, who's a lawyer with lots of publishing-world experience.

Thank you. Please, feel free to call me PNYL until I reveal my true identity, if the occasion should arise.

[Ken Schneider]

Thank you. Please, feel free to call me PNYL until I reveal my true identity, if the occasion should arise.

Passionate one, What my dear would there be to hide from? I just escaped from the clutches of that evil demon P.A.

Losing ones right to post on their board?

Hey, look at it this way. They would more than likely publish us again if we wanted, or you at least.
I'm happy to know that if such a stupid idea entered into my thoughts,(re: publishing with P.A. again), I am more than likely safe from myself by coming out. They surely have me on there Sh*t list. The safe from scam list to me.

[Renee]

Guys-The Ed Williams interview segment of my show is now posted on my website. Go to www.edhorrell.com (http://www.edhorrell.com/) and link on the "author" link and enjoy.

Oh cool! I missed the first casting of the interview, due to ISP problems. Anyways, thanks Ed & Ed! lol...

:Sun: And welcome back ED3!!!!!!!!!!!! :kiss: :Hail: :Cheers::heart: :Sun:

PS- PA sucks!

[arrowqueen]

Welcome, new arrivals. Sit down and have a nice cup of tea and a scone. You deserve it.

[DreamWeaver]

Kris,

That's what Deerings did. They left a warehouse full of un-published manuscripts. In PA's case it would be both electronic and hard copy manuscripts. In the Deering case it took about 2 years for the authors to get their rights released back to them.Right, and I understand the rights to PA authors' manuscripts could be tied up for for quite a while, which is really too bad.

But, what I was trying to warn about was a potential last-ditch buy-copies-of-your-book special for PA authors, which is what I thought PNYL meant. You know, like before the NY Times "partnership": special discount, royalties paid, order now--that type of thing. If PA runs an author special right before they fold, my suspicion is they will simply take the order money and declare bankruptcy or split, with no effort to ever fulfill the orders. It would be their style.

Not sure if I managed to get the specific concern clear that time, either. Oh well, there's a reason I haven't gone pro yet! :)

Kris

[Sher2]

But, what I was trying to warn about was a potential last-ditch buy-copies-of-your-book special for PA authors, which is what I thought PNYL meant. You know, like before the NY Times "partnership": special discount, royalties paid, order now--that type of thing. If PA runs an author special right before they fold, my suspicion is they will simply take the order money and declare bankruptcy or split, with no effort to ever fulfill the orders. It would be their style.

For what it's worth, I think that's exactly what they'd do. I'd be very wary of any kind of "special offer" -- it will be anything but special.

[B.L. Robinson]

I thought it time to say "Hello" and let everyone know that I did, indeed, escape from the PA message board with at least some shred of dignity left. Hi Aryn! Hey Dave! And the passionate new yorker... lol!
I was surprised that my posts stayed up as long as they did, I only wish that I had been able to read some of the responses to them, but sleep and then my real job demanded my participation today. I really had no intention of leading an all out "abandon ship", I think that the timing just coincided with the others getting tired of the "crap" over there as well.

I am moving on and have high hopes that no one else will buy my book, at least this one that PA has the hold on for the next five years. I am working on the final drafts of my first book in the series, and will attempt the 'traditional' methods just to see what happens with it. While I did get good reviews of The Battle Between, I just never felt right about ANYONE paying 20 bucks for it. The unavailability of it was the final straw for me, along with the banning that I got a short time ago for daring to suggest that PA's editing was "lacking". I sent Ann a copy of the email that I got from PA in response to my request to regain my access to the message board, I actually found it quite a musing and decided to not make things worse and edit it and send it back!

I will pop in from time to time and check the boards here, but I am moving on to the next book in the series while this one is getting put through the wringers prior to submission. But here, at least, I will use my actual name, since I have decided to no longer be "EZ"... :box:

Bruce

[Renee]

Hello Bruce, welcome!


Renee Bagley

[Patricia]

But here, at least, I will use my actual name, since I have decided to no longer be "EZ"... :box:

Bruce

Hi Bruce, you are in great company! Of course you already know that! I'm incognito for awhile, but should be making my debut soon. Welcome! That was a great job you did posting the Georgia song. We all enjoyed it.

Visit often -- lot of your peers here write in your genre.

Ann

[B.L. Robinson]

I think I stole it from here, Ann, lol!

Bruce

[Patricia]

Not sure if I managed to get the specific concern clear that time, either. Oh well, there's a reason I haven't gone pro yet! :)

Kris Actually you were clear, Kris. I added to it and was not clear. I think that the average of about 2 years wait would be better than the aprox. 7 yrs. or lifetime contract. :)

[ArynStephens]

Hey there Bruce! Good to see you, you are going to love it here, glad you followed my directions over. Now if I can just get a KC, CH, and a few others over here!
Hey there PNYL! Good to see you over here also. I was incognito for about 5 posts before revealing. Don't be shy now!

[James D. Macdonald]

Hi, Bruce. Welcome to the Water Cooler.

Y'know, we have a long tradition of posting foolish or insulting PA letters here (that means pretty much all of them), for the amusement and education of the world, and some of us love to do line-by-line commentary on 'em.

So you're invited....

[Renee]

Hey there Bruce! Good to see you, you are going to love it here, glad you followed my directions over. Now if I can just get a KC, CH, and a few others over here!
Hey there PNYL! Good to see you over here also. I was incognito for about 5 posts before revealing. Don't be shy now!

Hey Aryn, is that you? lol..:Jump:

Hey I wanted to give a shout-out to Rita too! I just noticed someone said in this thread, that she was here. Awesome!

If there are others that I've missed, :welcome: .:TheWave: :Cheers:

[B.L. Robinson]

I didn't have much communication with PA after my book was released, (imagine that!) so this one is the best that I can do. (Unless you want to see a REALLY atrocious picture that they wanted me to use as cover art!)

I wrote this message to PA after I was banned... the first time!

My access to the private message board has been denied after I commented on the unprofessional reply posted by the infocenter regarding the current HB Marcus debacle. Whoever was responsible for
the infocenter posting was rude and VERY unprofessional, and I believe
that my access was denied for personal reasons of this same person. I
would like my access returned immediately. Thank you.


Their reply.

Dear Mr. Robinson:

Your access has been interrupted because of the character of your post.
You made derogatory remarks about our editing staff, way out of context,
and incorrectly so. Stuff like that gets you in trouble. As for the
Infocenter reacting to the wildfire that was raging on both the
public and the private boards regarding one of our authors, this was
arguably the only professional contribution to the entire debate. Your
access to the board will be restored shortly.

Thank you,
Author Support Team

"Stuff like that gets you in trouble." I felt like I was having the riot act read to me by a third grade child. LOL! And all I said was that the person who made the posting (with multiple typos) must be one of the editors who had worked on some of the PA books that I had read....:Ssh:
Hi Renee! Zaz... what can I say? I did my best to carry on your tradition of loathing over there, and see where I ended up? LOL!

Bruce

[underthecity]

I thought it time to say "Hello" and let everyone know that I did, indeed, escape from the PA message board with at least some shred of dignity left. Hi Aryn! Hey Dave! And the passionate new yorker... lol!
I was surprised that my posts stayed up as long as they did, I only wish that I had been able to read some of the responses to them,
Bruce,
Welcome to the Other Side. Glad to see you broke free from their clutches and are continuing on your writing career. From here you can only go up.

Please stick around these boards. There's a ton of other forums here, please check them out (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/index.php?).

underthecity

[MartyKay]

Are we keeping score? At this rate they'll be tumbleweeds rolling through the PAMB :)

[Patricia]

I think I stole it from here, Ann, lol!

Bruce

I know you did, but we enjoyed seeing it OVER THERE! :roll:

[Jeff]

Welcome to all the new folks. Make sure you check out the rest of AW, there is a wealth of info here for writers!

From a published or soon-to-be published PublishAmerica Author:

Message:
From the PA letter to Beverly...
"We have recently partnered with Barnes & Noble, the nation's prime bookstore chain."

So, what exactly IS the partnership?
It would seem that if there were a partnership of some kind then PA books would be welcomed on bookshelves without the recurrent letters from B&N to authors about their policies that exclude PA books.
Is the fact B&N orders from PA only for the "one book at a time customer" that pays for the book before it is delivered...then yes, I can see where B&N would get orders everyday.

From the PA letter to Beverly:
"Indeed, your book will not only be available through all American bookstores from sea to shining sea, but through bookstores in a dozen European countries as well."

Pity...the only place my book is available is through the Amazon Advantage program. But boy...I would sure love to have it available from sea to shining sea, and Europe.

I'm just confused since so many PA authors are having such cruddy luck getting ANY bookstores to carry their books....POD, No returns, discount issues etc.

And other authors (like the kid's book authors) have really NO distribution avenues like Baker and Taylor or Brodart.

Tis a sad state of affairs.

Set up another chair and some more hot chocolate. There's a "Don't take that tone with us" letter on the horizon.

[AnneMarble]

"Stuff like that gets you in trouble." I felt like I was having the riot act read to me by a third grade child. LOL!

Yikes! Maybe they've stopped recruiting editors by running ads in the Pennysaver, and have started finding them by running ads in Pack-O-Fun (http://www.pack-o-fun.com/)magazine instead. The editors don't know much about commas, but they can make lovely pencil holders out of soup cans. ;)

[James D. Macdonald]

Dear Mr. Robinson:

Your access has been interrupted because of the character of your post.
You made derogatory remarks about our editing staff, way out of context,
and incorrectly so. Stuff like that gets you in trouble. As for the
Infocenter reacting to the wildfire that was raging on both the
public and the private boards regarding one of our authors, this was
arguably the only professional contribution to the entire debate. Your
access to the board will be restored shortly.

Thank you,
Author Support Team



Goodness me, that one is hardly worth the trouble. The second sentence is clumsy as heck -- if you want to talk "incoherent," they're approaching the line. "Context" isn't the word they're groping for.

Others have already commented on the ... tone ... of the third sentence.

The fourth sentence is run-on. "This" (as in "this was arguably") in the fourth sentence has an unclear antecedent.

On the plus side, all the words were spelled correctly.

[B.L. Robinson]

James, I especially enjoyed the "way out of context" comment.


Bruce

[Medievalist]

You know it would kind of make sense for amazon.com to have a POD arm.

Things that make you go "hmmm."

[JennaGlatzer]

New friends! New friends! Welcome! What a lovely bunch you are.

[reph]

How many besides me expect PA to shut down its author boards sometime soon? Those rebellious little authors are getting too uppity for Infocenter's comfort.

[triceretops]

My question is; are they banning the people who've already bought their books?

Good on you, Jenna. You have lots of new little chicks who just made it under the PA barbed wire fence. We're throwing GOOD seed out as fast as we can.

Tri

[SeanDSchaffer]

Well, it's been a couple of days since I've posted, just thought I'd come in and see what's going on. Before I do, though, I wanted to say "Welcome back, Ed! It's good to see you again." :Thumbs:

Now if everyone will excuse me, I have a couple of days' worth of posts to read before I comment further.

Oh, and to keep this on-topic, PA sucks!

:)

[JennaGlatzer]

Thanks, Tri! I loved that description the other day. :)

I'm listening to Ed, Ed, and Ken right now on the radio show, and I'm grinning ear to ear. You guys KICKED BUTT!! I was already all giddy and bouncy, then Ken came in prepped and swinging with numbers an' everything.

I'm about 3/4 through the interview, still listening, but was too excited to wait to post. Anyone who hasn't listened yet, go listen! http://www.edhorrell.com/author.htm

And y'all have such cute accents. :D

P.S. Reph: Agree. I'm very surprised they haven't pulled down the boards already.

[James D. Macdonald]

On the PA boards (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/9151.htm) we hear an author say:

I talked with PA last week and they told me that they run a special once, sometimes twice a year. They had no idea when it would be run.

In calendar 2004, PA ran six different specials.

PA is lying to you. Again.

Elsewhere (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/12046.htm), other PA authors have questions. I have answers!

I have a question about POD books and bookstores.
My understanding is that POD uses a form of digital printing which is very low in cost.

Digital printing has lower setup costs than offset printing.

Digital printing is cheaper than offset printing if you're running off five copies. Digital printing is also cheaper than hiring monks. It has higher per-unit costs than does offset when you're printing a book in commercial quantities.


I also understand that the term "POD" (and the process?) is also a "dirty word(s)" in the publishing industry, especially among bookstore chains.

The chains don't care how the ink gets on the paper. They do care about non-returnability. They care about cover price. They care about discounts.

POD is incompatible with bookstore shelving. A book on a bookstore shelf is printed in the hope that a reader may see it and want it. A POD book is only printed after a customer orders it.

Question: Do any of the "traditional" large scale publishing firms use digital printing for any of their books?

Yes, if it's cheaper than using offset for the same job.


If they do use digital printing for some of their books are the bookstores refusing to stock them because they are,in effect, POD's?

Please don't confuse digital printing (a technology) with Print-on-Demand (a business model).

One last question: does "traditional" mean time-honored" or just old-fashioned?

"Traditional" means anything you want it to mean. Larry picked it because it was undefined.

I am wondering if the chains ever confuse "print on demand" with "publish on demand" ?

No, they don't, because there's no difference. Those are equivalent terms. If you're asking if the chains ever confuse normal publishing with vanity publishing, no, they don't confuse those, either.

[ArynStephens]

Hey all, Hey there Sean, good to see you!
Just discovered that they pulled every single thread that I had ever been on. Why? Because I posted my email address in my signature just before jumping ship. I guess they don't want anyone asking me what that link to AW was again. No problem, I still have the right connections!:poke:

[JennaGlatzer]

LOL! Way to go, Aryn. You gots power, lady! They fear you!

Hey, can I put a space in your username so it's not so wide?

[SeanDSchaffer]

Wow! A lot has happened in the last couple days. :faint:

Aryn, Rita, Dave, Bruce, it's good to hear from you all again. Welcome to AW.
:welcome:

I really don't have a lot to say right now; I'm still absorbing all the information I've been reading for the last couple of hours. But I said I would post again and, well, that's why I'm posting now.


Anyway, I'll talk to you all later. Have a good morning, everyone.
:Coffee:

[ArynStephens]

Actually, Jenna, can we abbreviate it? I was wondering what I could do with that as well. Thanks!

[Lisa Maliga]

This is what the current [May 6th, 2005] source code for PA looks like:

<html>
<head>
<title>Book Publishers - Book Publishing</title>
<meta name="description" content="Book Publishers - Book Publishing or Publish a Novel at Publish America Today." >
<meta name="keywords" content="book publishers,book publishing,publish a novel,publisher" >
<meta name="Robots" content="index,follow">
<meta name="GOOGLEBOT" content="INDEX,FOLLOW">
<base href="http://www.publishamerica.com">
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="inc/style.css">
<script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript" src="inc/jscript.js"></script>
<script>
<!--
function openWindow(url, w, h) {
var options = "width=" + w + ",height=" + h + ",";
options += "resizable=yes,scrollbar=yes";
options += "menubar=no,toolbar=yes,location=no,status=no,direc tories=no";
var newWin = window.open(url, 'newWin', options);
newWin.focus();
}
//-->
</script>
</head>

While I didn’t save the entire header back in November 2004, I did save the 2 more important categories – description and keywords. Who can spot the difference? :Lecture:

<META name="description" content="PublishAmerica, Inc., a traditional publisher, accepting and publishing manuscripts and books at NO CHARGE to the author. Royalties paid to writers, books sold in stores. Manuscript submissions by mail and online" >

And they certainly had a LOT more keywords!

META name="keywords" content="writers, publishers, agents, literary agents, authors, author, writer, publisher, publishing, writing, xlibris, publishing house, publishing company, publishing companies, royalties, print?on?demand, print on demand, print?on?demand publishing, print on demand publishing, PublishAmerica, Publish America, publishamerica, publish america, AmErica House, america house, America House, publish America, print, printing, book, books, book publishing, publishing service, self-publish, self-publishing, iUniverse, iuniverse, xlibris, self publishing, free publishing, cheap publishing, manuscript, manuscript submission, royalty publisher, royalty publishing, ebooks, on-demand publishing, small press, online publishing, publishing online, book publisher, book publishers, book printing, publishing resource, writer resource, author resource, writers community, authors community, publishing professional, traditional publisher, traditional publishing, writing talent, creative talent, unpublished author, un-published author, unpublished writer, un-published writer, publishing contract"

[lindylou45]

I’ve had some time to think over the sequence of events leading up to my termination. I kept wondering why they chose me (among others) to send the new amendment clause to and why they decided to release my rights back to me, especially since PA told me at the convention book signing they wanted me to sit at a table with a red table cloth in the middle of the mall (with a few other authors) because PA considered me one of their top authors.



Rita,

Your newsletter and your attitude have helped countless PA authors. You are a wonderful person and I wish you success in all you do. Good luck with the agent.

[lindylou45]

Hi Ed,
I really want to listent to this. But when I click on the 'play' button, it only broadcasts a word or two then cuts out.

Am I doing something wrong?

Same here. I heard it Sunday, but I kind of wanted to listen to it again. You may have a new listener each Sunday now, Ed.

[lindylou45]

What to do? I guess for the time I am a new "PA basher"? Which is sad because I have met a lot of wonderful people on the PA site and I want them to be successful but PA hurts them with the way they treat people!

Just wanted to say hello!

J. David Jamesson
T.O.Y.S.
www.freewebs.com/tiredofyourstuff (http://www.freewebs.com/tiredofyourstuff)

:welcome: Remember that there are quite a few people on this thread who were in the exact same place you are now at one time. We aren't really "bashing" PA, we're simply telling the truth. (Although, we do have a little fun with the stooges, the POD squad, and Shemp at times.)

Good luck in getting your rights back. For now the best thing you can do is start on your next book and take your situation with PA one "tone" letter at a time.

[lindylou45]

I thought it time to say "Hello" and let everyone know that I did, indeed, escape from the PA message board with at least some shred of dignity left. Bruce

Hey Bruce, I'm so glad to see you posting! We're so happy you're here. You're a hero at AW, you know.

Best of luck with your writing.

[reph]

I hope PA authors collect one another's e-mail addresses, as many as possible, so that they'll be able to communicate if the boards go down for any reason.

[spacejock2]

I hope PA authors collect one another's e-mail addresses, as many as possible, so that they'll be able to communicate if the boards go down for any reason.

Maybe the mods can set up a PA Authors thread elsewhere on AW? Kind of a halfway house for those who aren't ready to leap into this one, but where they can post & keep in touch with each other without fear of banning.

[ArynStephens]

Maybe the mods can set up a PA Authors thread elsewhere on AW? Kind of a halfway house for those who aren't ready to leap into this one, but where they can post & keep in touch with each other without fear of banning.

Excellent Idea! I know several people who are not ready to jump on this bandwagon, yet are hovering on the brink of being pushed off anyway. If they had a "halfway house", it would be an easier transition for them. I have collected quite a few email addresses and know someone else that has nearly all of the active message board user's email addresses. Thus said, we are talking about a relatively small portion of PU's authors, you know, the 11,000 poor lost souls.
Hey, just had a thought. Those we have email addresses for are like the upper class on the Titanic, they have a reserved seat on the lifeboats. Oh how sad for those whom we can not rescue!

[B.L. Robinson]

Jenna, you must be talkin' to the ladies, because Dave and I are anything BUT lovely...:cool:

Bruce

[MacAllister]

Ah, but Bruce--if you only knew how hard it is to sit on the sidelines, over here, and root sooooo hard for the authors over there...so it really IS lovely to see ya'll surface over here.

I think the longtime followers of this thread cheer hardest, when we see one of you get away--and we cheer even louder when you show up here. Cuz we really do just want to help. :)

[astonwest]

My friend runs a POD shop in England and he sets the price per the page count. A book of poetry he published for a local professor that was 60 pages long as $7, while this huge reprint of an obcure Arabic dictionary, 700 pages, was $39.
Funny about that...PA does the same thing, pricing per page count. Unfortunately, they have to try to convince their authors (and maybe themselves) there's some deeper thought process involved...
How many besides me expect PA to shut down its author boards sometime soon? Those rebellious little authors are getting too uppity for Infocenter's comfort.
I'd be surprised if it happened...rebellions have come and gone many times over the years, and it's still there. It's PA's only chance to advertise on the Internet (well, other than Author's Market...:rolleyes: ), as new (and happy) authors tell their would-be-author friends "come over and check this place out. You can get published, too..."
The way PA figures, a little bleach, a couple of firebombs, and the place will be sanitized once again...ready for more recent newbies to come on-board and advertise for them...

[ArynStephens]

Funny about that...PA does the same thing, pricing per page count. Unfortunately, they have to try to convince their authors (and maybe themselves) there's some deeper thought process involved...


I don't know exactly what that deep thought process would amount to. My MS was 95,000 words, squeezed into tiny print to make the page count under three hundred. Someone else's book with half that word count managed to have a page count nearly the same as mine? Yes, let me go home and sleep on that one, I am still trying to figure it out.:sleepy:

[whitewolfzty]

Hello everyone,
Just thought it was time to join in. Yeah, I am another amputee from PA, I've had all my posts pulled and cannot gain access to the Private boards. No big deal I'll just come here instead. It was time for me to sever myself from the tenacious strings of the PA boards. It was beginning to stifle any creative juices I may possess.
I'll be back,
Ken

[Memphis Ed]

First of all, welcome to the new group. This is getting fun!

It is going to get even better Sunday since our own Jenna has agreed to be interviewed on my show. We'll take another shot or two at the PA program as well as discussing her freelance writing career and just overall how wonderful I think she is.

Its live on www.am990.com (http://www.am990.com) at noon CST if you want to listen in or call in.

I'll post the info again over the weekend.

[Christine N.]

Wow, I go to bed and there's a mass exodus from PA. Guess I need to bake more special brownies. (Hey, Mem's on the road, I guess, so someone has to take over.)

Somebody go in the back room and get all those extra chairs out?Thanks.

[triceretops]

:TheWave: Ken, may I offer three doffs off the ole' fedora. Congradulations in your decision to join us. You'll not be banned from here, and you can express your thoughts freely. Yes, turmoil can hamper the creative juices, but I and everyone at AW invite you to check out this writing group and snuggle in where ever you feel comfortable. We have dozens (gosh, might be hundreds) of PA refugees here, and they're a wonderful group of souls, who've already contributed much to our knowledge banks.

Have a good stay--see you around the boards.

Triceratops

[DaveKuzminski]

Jenna, be sure to talk about PA's Bookland Security since it sure as hell isn't Author Support. ;)

[Sher2]

It's so heartening to wake up in the morning and find a mass exodus from Poz, newbies and amputees galore, and the need for a PA 12-step and halfway house. An ill wind is blowing through Poz and things are lookin' good!

Sometimes you think you've found something shiny and good, valuable and enduring and, come to find out, all you've found is a lump of coal. That's PA for you.

[Gratian Gasparri]

Before I begin, a warm welcome to all our new members from PA, as well as all the lurkers who are still a little hesitant.

How many besides me expect PA to shut down its author boards sometime soon? Those rebellious little authors are getting too uppity for Infocenter's comfort.

I think you are more likely to see a spring cleaning of the board of authors who have sold their seventy-five copies. If PA gets particularly desperate, you may also see them jettison the public board. Nevertheless, I don't see them completely ridding themselves of author discussion boards.

For our former PA authors, how many of you would have crossed over sooner from PA to this message board had you not been active on PA's message board?

As Uncle Jim points out, PA's POD business model entails selling books to authors while discouraging book sales to bookstores. It would appear that part of PA's business model -- a part that distinguishes them from other POD and vanity outfits -- is to create a sense of community of their authors. This allows PA to manipulate the "us vs. them" mentality among the authors, shielding them from the harsh reality that their book is vanity published. It also allows people like Shemp to prolongue their ego boost after the novelty of being a "traditionally published author"[tm] wears off among friends and family. And finally, your average author -- who is basically a good person of sound psychology -- will tolerate a lot more from the company if he or she has friends through the company. This last group will sell the most books and recruit most of the new authors.

Without the message boards, PA is just another vanity POD publisher.

[Susan Gable]

:welcome: Just want to say hello and welcome to all the newcomers. (I'd name names, but I'd undoubtedly leave someone out, and that would be bad - don't want to do that!) Please come in, make yourselves comfortable.

We offer support, refreshments :Coffee: :popcorn: :Cheers: :Cake: , and a place where you can ask questions without getting booted. :)


Do check out the other areas of the board - lots of good stuff here!

Glad to have you with us.

Susan G.

[Aconite]

Nevertheless, I don't see them completely ridding themselves of author discussion boards.
I agree. If they didn't have the message boards as a platform for Infocenter's explanations, authors would have to search elsewhere for answers to questions like, "Is PA POD?" and "Why don't bookstores want to stock my books?" and "What kind of trashy operation is this?" Those authors might end up looking...oh, you know...somewhere with answers very different from the ones PA wants them to hear.

[Memphis Ed]

Without the message boards, PA is just another vanity POD publisher.

'Fraid so.

[Christine N.]

Yeah, I don't think they'll shut down the brainwashing machine that is the PAMB. Why bother, when you can just ban those who don't use NewSpeak? We can just Delete them, erase them, make it like they never existed.

"All is good... all is good..." Yes, Big Brother is watching. Big Brother is good, he loves you...

Bleck. If the MB disappeared, all that would be left would be...oh, I don't know.... the truth. And we can't have that, can we?

[realitychuck]

Welcome to all the new PA authors. The number showing up in the past few days is a bad sign for PA and good one for writers everywhere.

Usually, rats desert the sinking ship. As the PA ship sinks, it's just the opposite -- the good people are getting out and, eventually, all that will be left are the three rats who run the place.

[Sparhawk]

Before I begin, a warm welcome to all our new members from PA, as well as all the lurkers who are still a little hesitant.



I think you are more likely to see a spring cleaning of the board of authors who have sold their seventy-five copies. If PA gets particularly desperate, you may also see them jettison the public board. Nevertheless, I don't see them completely ridding themselves of author discussion boards.


Without the message boards, PA is just another vanity POD publisher. (snip)

I think there is much wisdom in this post and I have had the same suspicion. PA is cleaning house right now and eliminating the old disguntled blood. There will be enough newbies along to fillup the spaces vacated by those who have seen the light.

TO my surprise; I recieved several E-MAils from PA Authors whom I have never posted with and don't know. THey have been monitoring my "Esper" Posts in the Authors forum and my -Sparhawk / "Gherkin the Boy Wonder" persona here. Why me.. I have no clue, there are far more people on this thread who have superior writing and communication skills (and can post an entire paragraph without a typo).

I spent two and a half hours last night answering these E-MAils and relaying information that I have learned here. Many PA lurkers are puzzled and confused as to the current shake up. IT is highly visible; there is a distubance on "The Dark Side" and it is being felt all over PA. Also, many more PA newbies visit this site than we probably realize. May the "Force" be with us.

I have it on good authority that SHEMP, too, has been banned! THere is atleast that small consolation.

Well, I've got to overhaul the Brinemobile(tm) before Ed3 gets back and Jenna needs a Strawberry Diaqery and a footrub... duty calls !!!!!

[DreamWeaver]

I am wondering if the chains ever confuse "print on demand" with "publish on demand" ? No, they don't, because there's no difference. Those are equivalent terms. If you're asking if the chains ever confuse normal publishing with vanity publishing, no, they don't confuse those, either.I came into this game late; did PA invent the specious POD vs POD definition, or was it already in use?

Kris

[DreamWeaver]

...they pulled every single thread that I had ever been on. Why? Because I posted my email address in my signature just before jumping ship....I've had all my posts pulled...It really is like something out of Orwell's 1984. You guys must top their hit parade. Of course, for a publisher to even have a hit parade (and I don't mean their bestseller list :)) is more than a little scary.

Kris

[DreamWeaver]

This is what the current [May 6th, 2005] source code for PA looks like: [snip]
<meta name="description" content="Book Publishers - Book Publishing or Publish a Novel at Publish America Today." >
<meta name="keywords" content="book publishers,book publishing,publish a novel,publisher" >

While I didn’t save the entire header back in November 2004, I did save the 2 more important categories – description and keywords. Who can spot the difference? :Lecture:

<META name="description" content="PublishAmerica, Inc., a traditional publisher, accepting and publishing manuscripts and books at NO CHARGE to the author. Royalties paid to writers, books sold in stores. Manuscript submissions by mail and online" >

And they certainly had a LOT more keywords!

META name="keywords" content="writers, publishers, agents, literary agents, authors, author, writer, publisher, publishing, writing, xlibris, publishing house, publishing company, publishing companies, royalties, print?on?demand, print on demand, print?on?demand publishing, print on demand publishing, PublishAmerica, Publish America, publishamerica, publish america, AmErica House, america house, America House, publish America, print, printing, book, books, book publishing, publishing service, self-publish, self-publishing, iUniverse, iuniverse, xlibris, self publishing, free publishing, cheap publishing, manuscript, manuscript submission, royalty publisher, royalty publishing, ebooks, on-demand publishing, small press, online publishing, publishing online, book publisher, book publishers, book printing, publishing resource, writer resource, author resource, writers community, authors community, publishing professional, traditional publisher, traditional publishing, writing talent, creative talent, unpublished author, un-published author, unpublished writer, un-published writer, publishing contract"

Very interesting; huge difference. I'm not sure I'm getting the why, though. Care to elaborate a bit more?

Kris

[ArynStephens]

KEN!!! Big hug! I'm so glad you managed to drag your keister over here, aren't these people great! I've been passing your email out to the others. Later Wolfzty!

[ZaZ]

Zaz... what can I say? I did my best to carry on your tradition of loathing over there, and see where I ended up? LOL!

Bruce,

I commend your tireless efforts.
Welcome to the Cooler.
I hardly find it a surprise that one willing to make the personal sacrifices and possess the gusto it takes to properly loathe the insane rhetoric and cultish cheerleading on both of those boards was rewarded with the gift of the ban.

Congratulations.

ZaZ

[AnneMarble]

I have it on good authority that SHEMP, too, has been banned! THere is atleast that small consolation.

:faint: Cough cough. Pardon me. Now I never thought I'd read that.

If this is true, what does it signify? Was he out of the control? Did he go too far even for them? Will he come back as yet another persona, until he outs himself again?

[Memphis Ed]

It's getting too quiet over at PA. The natives aren't very restless, which indicates there is something going on behind the scenes.

I doubt that we've heard the last of Shemp. His ego isn't let him get too far away from the place, especially when he finds out he's been PA'd again with whatever screenwriting deal he alluded to. Also, some of the vocals have disappeared for a while or are swimming in the pablum they are tossing around.

Something is lurking....

[eighter]

I've been out of town and haven't been keeping up but welcome to all the new people.

I was in the 1900 area on Amazon's PA best seller list a couple of days ago when I left. This morning I checked and wasn't there. After a year without a contract I thought finally I'd been removed.

NOPE, I wasn't there because I'd moved up to #199. I don't think you move up from selling used books.

I received one royalty check for $35. in Feb of 2004.........NONE SINCE.

A couple of weeks ago I went in a casino that I do not frequent. Someone had a copy of my book passing it around in the employee's lounge. One dealer saw my name and my picture and told them I was playing poker in there at the time.

People came to me, wanting to buy a book and have me sign it. I told them I didn't have any.

Last night I had to sign two books in another casino. The books looked new to me. Customers at the table wanted to know about it. As hard as I try not to sell my book, I am forced to still talk about it. Several said they were going to order it.

At one time, I would have been delighted and thrilled but PA made what at least should have been a fun thing a horrible experience. I never expected to
be rich and famous but I never thought I'd be in the position of being embarrassed and ashamed. I never thought I'd be in the position of trying to avoid talking about my book that once made me proud.

I don't care about the $1.79 but somebody is making money off MY book and it ain't me. Multiply this by 11,000 other happy authors and it should get the attention of the IRS.

The other day I read where a guy's ambition was to be #1 on PA's best seller list. It reminded me that I felt like that at one time. Learn from my experience, don't work your a.. off, don't spend money of a PR firm, don't run ads or do anything to make THEM richer.

I am one of the especially stupid ones, I did all that. All I got were the bills and a broken spirit. I am telling the truth about my own personal experience and trying to prevent it from happening to others. We, "bashers", aren't trying to ruin any author's chances, we are trying to prevent you making the mistakes we made.

If all you want is a copy of your book for your coffee table, use PA. That's all you'll get. It will not have "line by line" editing. It may have the author's name spelled wrong and 1,000 plus mistakes. The story changes after you sign the contract from the lies on PA's web pages.

I did get most of my money back so I didn't suffer too much financially but my physical, mental health and pride suffered big time.

I bought the first 251 books when they had a sale of 55% and no shipping charges or I wouldn't have been able to recover most the money spent.


Molly

[NancyMehl]

Bonnie,

How close are you to Hamilton, Alabama?

Betty Webb writes the Lena Jones mystery series. (Desert Noir, Desert Wives, etc.) She has family in Hamilton.

I know Betty. It's been awhile since I corresponded with her, but I would be glad to put you in touch with her.

She's quite popular.

Nancy

[underthecity]

It's getting too quiet over at PA. The natives aren't very restless, which indicates there is something going on behind the scenes.
I agree with you there, Ed. I just looked through the forums and didn't see any controversy, no ALL CAPS!!!! postings, no anger, and--here's the scary part--missing people. Many of the regulars are gone, except for the regular regulars, the cheerleaders who practically live there. Shemp is nowhere to be seen. Couldn't find any past evidence of his ravings. No postings about him or any of the other recent activities. However, he has a tendency to reappear every three days, so he should make an appearance this weekend to shake things up.

It's like a ghost town over there. It's kinda scary.

It looks as though the board mods have spent a great deal of time antisepticizing everything, like when you totally clean your house and throw away all the trash and drag the recliner on top of the carpet stains prior to company coming over or selling the house.

And that goes with deleting posters, too. They are now "unpeople" who are scratching their heads wondering why their passwords don't work anymore. After all, they only asked a simple question.

Some of them have found their way over here. Nice to have you guys here.

Looks like the great pirate ship has hit its iceberg, or has taken on waaaaay too much cargo (11,000+ authors) and is slowly sinking into the briny depths.

Get out while you still can, people! It's safe over here.

underthecity

[Memphis Ed]

I agree with you there, Ed. I just looked through the forums and didn't see any controversy, no ALL CAPS!!!! postings, no anger, and--here's the scary part--missing people. Many of the regulars are gone, except for the regular regulars, the cheerleaders who practically live there. Shemp is nowhere to be seen. Couldn't find any past evidence of his ravings. No postings about him or any of the other recent activities. However, he has a tendency to reappear every three days, so he should make an appearance this weekend to shake things up.


The way it looks now, there are two basic groups. First is the group of long time PAers who sit back quietly and could care less if they ever sold a book or not. Mostly retired and happy to have friends on the board and be heard. I have no problem with that.

The second are the newbies with hopes and dreams of when their book comes out, or their book is just out, and they are in the process of planning their bookstore blitzes, author signings, and bookmark campaigns. This is what gives me a problem.

I used to watch over there and saw a nice person who had dreams. I liked her from her style and knew her heart was going to be broken. I watched as it unfolded, knowing she would be hurt and admiriing her style.

That person is Bonnie Gipson and now she is here, still as charming as ever but with a broken dream.

That urks me.

There is NO ONE over there who can mentor the newbies into success. NONE. They are falling all over each other trying to get questions answered by others who haven't been out there. Out of 11,000 there are NONE.

This is not the fault of the authors, but the system.

[underthecity]

There is NO ONE over there who can mentor the newbies into success. NONE. They are falling all over each other trying to get questions answered by others who haven't been out there. Out of 11,000 there are NONE.
This is not the fault of the authors, but the system.
The boards are filled with new authors who hope to have careers and believe they have found publishing success with a vanity press in disguise. It is a shame. The worst part is that many of them do not have their printed books yet. All they can do is dream and plan ways to get their books into bookstores (which for the millionth time is the job of the publisher).

Meanwhile, the ones who have been on there for a long time have all seen the new authors come and go. It's almost like it's theater to them. They got their family memoirs printed, and they're happy. They help coach the newbies on misdirected methods to get bookstore stocking and promotion. One author might get one bookstore to carry his or her book, but that's as far as things go. Soon that author disappears. More take his place.

AND meanwhile, other authors post misinformation about the publishing industry that is based entirely on other misinformation fed by PA, either on the boards themselves or on PA's FAQ pages. Any outside information that goes contrary to what PA says is all "bashing." End of discussion. Everybody please ignore the AP article, the WP article, the news features, the many stories circulating the web about PA book failures. It's all bashing. They didn't read their contracts. They didn't try hard enough. They didn't proofread their work. PA is the one god you will worship. Anyone who believes otherwise will be deleted.

It's such a crazy thing, one of the weirdest publishing-related entities I have ever come across.

underthecity

[Sparhawk]

The sad thing , Ed, is that their system works. This housecleaning will eliminate the dissension, the newbies who've just signed their contracts will start posting while the "Older" Newbies will begin to see the light which will eventually lead to thier banishment. Someone on an earlier post called it 'The Circle of Life", but I'd call it the circle of strife.

Argile Stox referred to this as the Eye of a Hurricane. The Drama is cyclical; Last year is was Shemp vs. newbie Brian in the Charity Boxinig Match. I was a part of that whole charade, and the sophmoric drama was mindboggling. This time it was SHemp aka Kilroy vs. Lynn BArry, who knows what will happen next. Drama and cleanout just seems to be a part of those boards. I don't get it and probably never will.

You were also correct about "Screenwriter" Shemp. LOL He's been braggiing about how he's going to blow the sox off of everyone when he makes his grand proclamation. <<YAWN>> He is so yesterday.

[WhisperingBard]

Just a quick note to welcome all the new arrivals. It's great to see you here! :hi:

[James D. Macdonald]

By the end of the year they'll have 4,000 brand-new authors who haven't been through the fill-wash-spin cycle yet. What do they need the old guys for?

Today there's a newbie author, book coming out later this year, wandering from thread to thread over there plaintively asking if anyone has gotten their books onto bookstore shelves. And this author is being reassured by folks whose own books haven't come out or have only recently been released that yes, it's possible. All you have to do is believe hard enough.

For all our new friends: This has been buried in the messages upstream even though I only posted it a few days ago. Go, get, read, Ten Percent of Nothing (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0809325756/ref=nosim/madhousemanor). It's a hardcover, $18.15 for 211 pages (or around $14 used). If you don't want to buy it, get it at your library (if it's not on their shelves, get it through interlibrary loan). Trust your old Uncle Jim. Trust Jenna. Trust Ed. Trust Victoria. This is one you want to read.

[robeiae]

The garbage and nonsense on the MB's is tolerated and even promoted by PA because of what it really is: distraction. The cyclical nature of the business model (out with the old, in with the new) requires that the new be kept occupied while they wait for their books to arrive. They become occupied with the silliness on the MB's and the feelings of community created by reading the trials of those who have just recieved their books and still have hope. There always seems to be a chance at huge success just over the next hill...

But we know this is a mirage; success is not really there and never will be because it would upset the business model. Imagine what would happen if just 100 authors (or just 10 authors) suddenly got B&N and Borders to stock their books: PA couldn't fill the orders fast enough if they were even interested in trying.

Returning to the distractions of the MB's, this is a technique as old as the hills. As I noted once before, it is less reflective of a cult and more so of a fascist organization. Keep the masses inline by keeping them unaware; sprinkle in a dash of hope and cover completely with propaganda. Once they are done (no longer willing to buy), toss them out and start over with a fresh batch. Very, very sad.

Rob

[Dawno]

What robeiae says makes perfect sense. Hypothetically speaking, since I'm not a PA author-in-waiting: I'm sitting home chewing my nails waiting for my proofs so what should I do? (I know, Uncle Jim, should be BIC writing my next book) Since my contract says I have to particpate in marketing my book I'm going to want to start planning how to get my book as much exposure as possible. I'm going to read about marketing on the PA site and then I'm going to go see what other PA authors suggest. Yep. Gotta keep the PAMB clean of any hint that I'm doomed to failure.

btw, the #1 hit when you Google "Larry Clopper" is Lindylou's site :)

[AC Crispin]

Hi, folks. If you are a Maryland author, and Congressman Steny Hoyer is your district representative, please write to me.

anncrispin@aol.com

This is important.

Something may be afoot.

Thanks!

-Ann C. Crispin

[Gratian Gasparri]

Bonnie, where are you in Alabama? While not a big name, I'm gonna be in Montgomery next week taping a couple shows with a Catholic television network. If you're nearby, I wouldn't mind stopping by the store if you're around.

[DaveKuzminski]

Do you think that possibly some officials in Maryland are getting embarrassed by the P&E question of the month for Maryland's AG?

[Gratian Gasparri]

If this is true, what does it signify?

That he became a liability for the cause, and will likely be joining us at AW under an alias so that he can re-invent himself as PA's biggest critic. We should welcome him, but with caution.

[DaveKuzminski]

That he became a liability for the cause, and will likely be joining us at AW under an alias so that he can re-invent himself as PA's biggest critic. We should welcome him, but with caution.

I fully agree. I believe they've recognized now that he's causing desertions from PA to occur sooner.

[AC Crispin]

Hello and welcome, PA newcomers. Phase Two of THE PROJECT is still in its early days, and there is still time to get in on it.

Please write me to become part of this ongoing, perfectly legal, effort against PublishAmerica.

Vic, can you please re-post the Phase Two original email sometime this weekend?

These new folks need to see it.

-Ann C. Crispin
One of Eight
Writer Beware
www.writerbeware.com (http://www.writerbeware.com)
Author: STORMS OF DESTINY
www.accrispin.com (http://www.accrispin.com)

[JennaGlatzer]

Hi folks,

Just got this e-mail and am posting it as requested. Nice to see that some companies DO listen to writers. :)

Hello Jenna,

I just received an email from Jane Friedman, the WD acquisitions editor regarding an AbsoluteWrite.com posting she read regarding WDBC's Writer's Network that celebrates our members' writing accomplishments. (A copy of the posting is below). It has never been the intention of the book club to condone or condemn any publisher, agent, author, Web site etc. in this column. We are simply looking for a way to build a sense of community among our book club members by announcing their achievements.

However, I am concerned that so many people are upset about this. To that end, beginning in our May 2005 Bulletin, we have added the following announcement to the Writer's Network column:

Writer's Network announcements regarding published and self-published books written by our club members are listed for informational purposes only. Writer's Digest Book Club does not endorse sales of these books nor the publishers and/or self-publishers whose company names may be included in the announcements.

I would appreciate it very much if this information could be posted on AbsoluteWrite.com so that your members don't have to waste their valuable writing time dropping me a note as we're already aware of the situation and have taken steps to eliminate any confusion.

Thanks so much, Jenna!

Best,
Linda Walker, editor
Writer's Digest Book Club

[MacAllister]

(heh--hear that, everyone? We can stop harassing the good folks at Writer's Digest....)

[AnneMarble]

That he became a liability for the cause, and will likely be joining us at AW under an alias so that he can re-invent himself as PA's biggest critic. We should welcome him, but with caution.

It's a good thing there are plenty of people here who are familiar with his posting style. I think if a kerfuffle occurs, we should all remember to take a deep breath and report any fires to a mod. We all hate coming to the board and finding that the thread has grown 20 pages in a day. :Ssh:

P.S. Maybe we should all change our avatars to pictures of menopausal women, just to draw him out. :D

[Uncarved]

I'm still not officially back for any length of time but I wanted to say that I received this email, which would be my first book signing:

Ms. Samuels:
The Sixteenth Annual Mercer University Authors Luncheon will be held on Saturday, November 12, in Atlanta, and we would very much like for you to be there to sign your new book by Mercer Press.
The luncheon is being held at the Renaissance Waverly Hotel which is near the Galleria, just inside I-285, off Cobb Parkway/Highway 41, just east of the intersection of I-75 and I-285 in the NW section of town. It begins at 10:30 AM with book sales and booksignings, and it is over at 2:30 PM.
The event is a fundraiser for Mercer University Press, and we plan to have 16-18 authors this year, several of whom, but not all, are MUP authors.
We usually have 350 people attend who are paying $125 each. So it is a very nice and very fun affair.
I hope your fall schedule will allow you to join us.
Sincerely,
Allen

--
Allen M. Wallace
Senior Associate Vice President for Development



They also sent me the "catalog page copy" of the full page advert of my book for their Fall/Winter 2005 catalog. Good stuff. I'm near glee with love for what a real publisher does.

[MacAllister]

It's a good thing there are plenty of people here who are familiar with his posting style. Honestly? With an ego like that, I dunno how long he'd be happy with anonymity. Also, it's gonna be tough because he wouldn't be a big-shot, here. *shrug* We are fortunate in that a number of extremely articulate, talented, and accomplished people post here.

These are people who actually know real stuff. It's going to be awfully hard to compete with that.

So I suppose what I'm really saying is that I'm just not too worried about it. :)

[Gratian Gasparri]

Honestly? With an ego like that, I dunno how long he'd be happy with anonymity. Also, it's gonna be tough because he wouldn't be a big-shot, here.

He wouldn't be the big-shot, but anybody who spends six years with PA trying to build a career as a writer has got to be patient. So he probably doesn't mind the wait.

On the other hand, what would motivate him to even suppress his ego? Revenge. PA snubbed HIM, their biggest booster, after all that he did for PA. They dared to tell him he was replaceable, so he is gonna show them how irreplaceable he is.

[MacAllister]

You have a point, there, Gratian--but do you really think he has the people skills to pull it off, outside of the fishbowl?

[Julian Black]

P.S. Maybe we should all change our avatars to pictures of menopausal women, just to draw him out. :D[laughs] Anyone want a hen avatar/icon? I've already vacuumed the cats three times today, and need some other brainless task. Help me procrastinate!

[fires up Photoshop]

[Gratian Gasparri]

You have a point, there, Gratian--but do you really think he has the people skills to pull it off, outside of the fishbowl?

Yes, with a little coaching from us as well as some clearly defined boundaries about what is and is not acceptable behavior on AW. I would suggest that Uncle Jim be the one to lay down the law should Shemp come over, since Uncle Jim is very much what Shemp wished he was with PA.

That being said, it is easy to see Shemp as the bully. This is the role he played over at PA. Nevertheless, he was also just as much a victim of PA as everyone else who crossed over. His unprofessional and objectionable behavior was tolerated, if not encouraged, from above. After they got as much mileage out of Shemp as they could, PA pulled the plug.

[reph]

Having the author message boards helps PA management in some ways and harms it in other ways, as noted in several posts upthread. Some posters point out how maintaining the author boards is a strategy for PA. Is it a good strategy? I don't think we can assume it is. The bullying "tone" letters are a strategy, too, and they've done as much to alienate PA authors as anything else. Keeping the boards up shows that PA ignores that classic advice to tyrants, "Divide and conquer."

[James D. Macdonald]

More graveyard-whistling on the PAMB (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/9132.htm):

This bashing is a sign of panic on the part of the bashers, they can't get paid if we all go to PA, it's as simply as that. ...The attacks won't stop until these bashers all file backruptcy, which is the next phase of this thing.

The poster seems to think that the folks who post the truth about PA are representatives of other vanity presses.

Poor guy! He ought to check out what it would have cost him to have a local printer run up as many copies of his slender poem book, coimpared to how much it cost him to have PA run up that same number. Then he can check how many of them he sold (and to whom) and how much more he would have made had he honestly self-published. (Not to mention how many more copies he might have sold had he been able to put a reasonable price on it. $14.95 for 88 pages!)

(I'm not talking about any of the vanity presses that call themselves "self-publishing services" or whatever -- I'm talking about honest self-publishing. Don't they have any Sir Speedy franchises in Philly?)

[Memphis Ed]

Yes, with a little coaching from us as well as some clearly defined boundaries about what is and is not acceptable behavior on AW. I would suggest that Uncle Jim be the one to lay down the law should Shemp come over, since Uncle Jim is very much what Shemp wished he was with PA.


My guess is that Shemp has been here before and will be here again. The difference is that this board doesn't have the "sheep" mentality that the PA board has and Shemp is not going to get the following that he desires, so he won't stay long.

People tend to follow folks who have achieved something they desire, hoping to avoid the landmines by following those with experience.

What has Shemp done that anyone over here wants to accomplish?

I don't hear anything....

[James D. Macdonald]

What has Shemp done that anyone over here wants to accomplish?

Three books with a vanity press!

[Memphis Ed]

Three books with a vanity press!

I'm still laughing at this, Uncle Jim. I stand corrected.

[PixelFish]

More graveyard-whistling on the PAMB (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/9132.htm):



The poster seems to think that the folks who post the truth about PA are representatives of other vanity presses.

Poor guy! He ought to check out what it would have cost him to have a local printer run up as many copies of his slender poem book, coimpared to how much it cost him to have PA run up that same number. Then he can check how many of them he sold (and to whom) and how much more he would have made had he honestly self-published. (Not to mention how many more copies he might have sold had he been able to put a reasonable price on it. $14.95 for 88 pages!)

(I'm not talking about any of the vanity presses that call themselves "self-publishing services" or whatever -- I'm talking about honest self-publishing. Don't they have any Sir Speedy franchises in Philly?)

We get paid to bash??? Sweet. Maybe now I don't have to look for a new job.

[DaveKuzminski]

Three books with a vanity press!

??? Oh, you're being sarcastic. Nevermind. ;)

[MacAllister]

Nevertheless, he was also just as much a victim of PA as everyone else who crossed over. His unprofessional and objectionable behavior was tolerated, if not encouraged, from above. After they got as much mileage out of Shemp as they could, PA pulled the plug. Gratian, just when I'm working myself up for a good ol' seldom-indulged-in snark, you go and take all the wind out of my sails with your kindness and greatness of spirit. :)

See how ya are! Heh.

[James D. Macdonald]

Personal for those who need to hear it:

Just because your book is listed on ABE (http://textbook-authors.abebooks.co.uk/Author/96629/Travis+Tea.html) doesn't mean that it's being widely distributed or seen by readers or promoted by your publisher or even exists. All that being listed on ABE means is that your book has an ISBN.

[keltora]

Personal for those who need to hear it:

Just because your book is listed on ABE (http://textbook-authors.abebooks.co.uk/Author/96629/Travis+Tea.html) doesn't mean that it's being widely distributed or seen by readers or promoted by your publisher or even exists. All that being listed on ABE means is that your book has an ISBN.

There was a time when abebooks.com was strictly used copies (librarians found it a good place to shop for out of print items).

Now it has a lot of "stores" included in its listing, and some of those are merely a person with a website who orders the book after someone clicks on the "buy it."

So yes, it is not proof that one is selling at all.

[Dawno]

-snip- P.S. Maybe we should all change our avatars to pictures of menopausal women, just to draw him out. :D

Change?

[Gratian Gasparri]

Change?

Um, yeah. You don't even look thirty in your current picture.

[DreamWeaver]

Just because your book is listed on ABE (http://textbook-authors.abebooks.co.uk/Author/96629/Travis+Tea.html) doesn't mean that it's being widely distributed or seen by readers or promoted by your publisher or even exists. All that being listed on ABE means is that your book has an ISBN.Referencing result #5: Is Atlanta Nights really in its fourth edition?

Kris

[James D. Macdonald]

Referencing result #5: Is Atlanta Nights really in its fourth edition?

Kris

It certainly is! Check travistea.com (http://www.travistea.com/) for details. Find out if you have one of the super-rare collectible first edtions!

===============

[UPDATE] So far, http://www.travistea.com has had 4,543 unique visitors. Go, us!

[Renee]

Hello everyone,
Just thought it was time to join in. Yeah, I am another amputee from PA, I've had all my posts pulled and cannot gain access to the Private boards. No big deal I'll just come here instead. It was time for me to sever myself from the tenacious strings of the PA boards. It was beginning to stifle any creative juices I may possess.
I'll be back,
Ken

Hi Ken! Long-time no talk! It's great to see you here, welcome to the cooler. Yeah, PA tends to pull all our posts after the big banning. They did the same thing when I was banned. Except I was grateful to not have to see my posts over there anymore. It couldn't have worked better, for me. You'll like it much better here. And don't forget to surf through the other forums to find a pick me up on inspiration!

Well there sure are a lot of ppl abandoning the old war-ship. Now I'm just waiting for Sooty girl and Jacki..and others. Come on down!

[whitewolfzty]

With such a response as this, I feel at home already. I will browse around and see which niche I fit into, but it seems nice here. Someone give me the low down on what to expect. I've only got one book out but I am working on the sequel to it now.
Thanks again, for the welcome.
I'll be back.
Ken

[Dawno]

With such a response as this, I feel at home already. I will browse around and see which niche I fit into, but it seems nice here. Someone give me the low down on what to expect. I've only got one book out but I am working on the sequel to it now.
Thanks again, for the welcome.
I'll be back.
Ken

My suggestion is to go introduce yourself at the Newbies Thread and then visit all the appropriate Writing Studio and genre threads. We are having some laughs over at Take it Outside...this is a great place to visit but even nicer once you start hanging out!

[reph]

My guess is that Shemp has been here before and will be here again.
Back when Sort by Reputation was enabled in Members List, he was easy to find.

That inverse-order feature was quite handy.

[Memphis Ed]

With such a response as this, I feel at home already. I will browse around and see which niche I fit into, but it seems nice here. Someone give me the low down on what to expect. I've only got one book out but I am working on the sequel to it now.
Thanks again, for the welcome.
I'll be back.
Ken

Ken- You'd better be back. You are welcome here.

[mdmkay]

I realize this is old information but it bears repeating. Anyone that wants to report PA, the address is: Office of the Attorney General, Consumer Protection Division, 200 St Paul Place, Baltimore, Maryland 21202-2021. You also need to report them to the General Attorney in your own state, Better Business Bureau, and since I, myself, am poorer than church mouse (and will stay that way thanks to good old PA, I'm looking into pro bono legal council by way of your state bar association and I, lucky me, have a law college where I live with students that I'm going to check into representation with). I still have a pass onto the private boards and wanted to post this info but I figured I'd be banned and deleted so fast that no one would have the chance to read it. I could care less about being banned but I've been waiting to be banned until there was something that needed to be posted and I have no idea where to post it. PA already knows that I'm a naughty writer I got my first tone letter- well, it wasn't my first but it was the most nasty one (I was soooo proud).

[Jaws]

I realize this is old information but it bears repeating. Anyone that wants to report PA, the address is: Office of the Attorney General, Consumer Protection Division, 200 St Paul Place, Baltimore, Maryland 21202-2021.
For the forty-seventh time, don't do this. The relationship between an author and PA is a business-to-business one, not a consumer transaction. Maryland's consumer protection laws do not apply to business-to-business transactions.

[James D. Macdonald]

People who are looking for legal representation might check with Volunteer Lawyers for the Arts (http://www.google.com/search?q=volunteer+lawyers+fo+the+Arts).

People who are looking for ways to help PublishAmerica reform might want to write to Ann about Phase II.

We've helped PA see the errors of their ways enough to make changes to their website, and I'm certain we're making progress in getting the word out to prospective victims -- I expect that's why they're raising their book prices: They have to cover the shortfall in revenue somehow.

So, keep up the good work, and help your fellow authors.

[akaa1a]

http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/9183.htm

Message:
Does PA edit the manuscript?

I am getting conflicting thoughts on this.

The contract says they do edit.

That message was about 15 minutes ago...I don't suppose any PA old and moldies will want to get their weekend off to a rousing start with a truthful reply....anyone?

AUTHORS...if you want to know what PA does with your manuscript, then run a Spellcheck, cross your fingers and have a beer...cuz THAT'S all there is folks!:Headbang:

[DreamWeaver]

The relationship between an author and PA is a business-to-business one, not a consumer transaction. Maryland's consumer protection laws do not apply to business-to-business transactions.All right, now. Anyone want to guess a good reason for PA to do business in Maryland?

A. Because that was the best place to build the warehouse in which they keep their inventory of printed books.
B. It's near Washington DC, so they are well-placed to bid on defense contracts and other lucrative government business.
C. See quote above.

Me: I'm not good at multiple choice. Can I take the test essay style?
PA: Sure, it'd make a good book.

Kris

[James D. Macdonald]

I don't suppose any PA old and moldies will want to get their weekend off to a rousing start with a truthful reply....anyone?

Woo hoo! Go, XXxxx!

[Ken Schneider]

It certainly is! Check travistea.com (http://www.travistea.com/) for details. Find out if you have one of the super-rare collectible first edtions!

===============

[UPDATE] So far, http://www.travistea.com (http://www.travistea.com/) has had 4,543 unique visitors. Go, us!



Ugh, collecting it is about all you want to do. The book has some comical points in it, unintended.

It was a coup, and I'm sure will rank (Up there) with Plant Nine from....

But the point was made, and it is for a good cause.

[akaa1a]

Originally Posted by akaa1a
I don't suppose any PA old and moldies will want to get their weekend off to a rousing start with a truthful reply....anyone?



Message:
Hey Soots!

JL...
You're right about that! I guess I would be concerned for the reader of the book though.

As we all know from posting on the boards, literary license can be misconstrued and may, in some cases, hurt the message.
I think it's important that people realize that successful editing takes a trained person, whether PA or not.

For example, "I" can take your manuscript and "proof" it for you...but, (as I scream running out of the building), I wouldn't ever "edit" it for you because I'm not a trained professional.

I think it's important to make that distinction and encourage authors to know the credentials of the person working on your manuscript.


Maybe old? Maybe moldy? Maybe coming to visit real soon!

[James D. Macdonald]

A. The partners were all born and raised there, and just want to bring some prosperity to their beloved home town.


Clopper and Prather are both from Maryland.

[DreamWeaver]

Clopper and Prather are both from Maryland.That's why I added the second part. :) Though to be fair, that might be true, too...Okay, I changed it. And the question. I'm still doing the essay, though.

Kris

[lindylou45]

Hello everyone,
Just thought it was time to join in. Yeah, I am another amputee from PA, I've had all my posts pulled and cannot gain access to the Private boards. No big deal I'll just come here instead. It was time for me to sever myself from the tenacious strings of the PA boards. It was beginning to stifle any creative juices I may possess.
I'll be back,
Ken

Welcom Ken, so glad to see you here.

[postshy]

To all the new PA Authors who have just jumped ship. I am not one of the community since, although I do have a book published with PA, I have never posted on their Boards. I have written a children's book, which PA choses to hold out of spite. They tell me it is not selling, but scamper around when I mention three letters "IRS". As a veteran of "tone" letters, I just ignore their childish e-mails and have asked them to discontinue until they grow up and can handle adult correspondence.

I found AW on my own and was a lurker for many months before I could dredge up enough courage to post. I am here to fight the good fight with everyone else. Unfortunately, I agree that PA is simply cleaning house and getting ready for the next crop of dreamy-eyed "newbies".
I also question the fact that Shemp has been banned. I feel that his leash has just been tightened, until he is set free once again to bite and snarl at those whom PA wants to get rid of. What better way than turning him loose? That way they do not have to take responsibility for their actions (he does) and the newbies need never know who the real culprit is - PA. Just my opinion!

To end on a positive note - PA we all know you for what you are - so take a new oath or perish - we are here to help you, in every way we can, to do one or the other.

[Memphis Ed]

....there is a long time PA poster suggesting to a newbie that they put book marks in their Internet bills, utility bills, phone bills, etc.

I am shaking my head and saying "This cannot be happening".

[arrowqueen]

Good heavens! Even more new arrivals. How nice to see you all. Welcome in.

Ok. Civilities over. I have proof positive that PA is the literary equivalent of a toxic dump - and it's seeping.

1) On Monday, I read Karin Slaughter's 'Indelible' - and there, at the bottom of page 352, were the immortal words: 'balling like a child.'

2) On Tuesday I read another novel, where the writer was so fond of the word 'resonate' (and all its variations) that he used it at least twice in every bloody chapter.

3) I bought a book from the Red Cross shop - and found a single dollar bill tucked between its pages. (A trifle bizarre, since I am in Scotland.)

All these books were murder stories. Is this a metaphor for PA murdering its writers' dreams?

On the other hand, since evil got its comeuppance in all three, perhaps it means PA will too?

What do these omens portend?

[Patricia]

....there is a long time PA poster suggesting to a newbie that they put book marks in their Internet bills, utility bills, phone bills, etc.

I am shaking my head and saying "This cannot be happening".

Ed, that is not a new suggestion. It's been played before. PA boards are a land of "nothing new under the sun." The suggestions are only new to the newbies.

[Literary Lola]

Maybe we should all change our avatars to pictures of menopausal women, just to draw him out. :D
Goodness, after my little spewfest at Baldy Meiners, Clod-hopper and Moe, I'd say I have that menopausal thing down to a science. Maybe instead of a silly looking puppy, my new avatar should be dripping fangs.

[Savannah Blue]

....there is a long time PA poster suggesting to a newbie that they put book marks in their Internet bills, utility bills, phone bills, etc.

I am shaking my head and saying "This cannot be happening".

At least that's better than telling them to use the utility money to buy their books, as has been done before.

Sara

PublishAmerica SUPER sucks!

[arrowqueen]

Jeezo! You jest, Savannah. At least I hope so!

[Sher2]

Goodness, after my little spewfest at Baldy Meiners, Clod-hopper and Moe, I'd say I have that menopausal thing down to a science. Maybe instead of a silly looking puppy, my new avatar should be dripping fangs.
Dang, Lola, I'd have to fight you for that one.

Heads up, people -- the Tour bus goes to Ohio tomorrow. Guess what that means? :wag:

[Sher2]

Jeezo! You jest, Savannah. At least I hope so!
Alas, she tells you true. Sick, huh? And my goodness, what about the ones who mortgaged the house to buy their own books, or quit their jobs and went through their savings waiting for their writing career to take off? There oughta be a law...

[eighter]

Yes they do. Here's a sample.

Mine. Hardly anyone used the old highway.
Hers. Hardly, anyone used the old highway.

Then I received an e mail saying I was afraid to use and didn't know how to use commas but not to worry. "We all needs help sometimes".

The name of the book is There Ain't Enough Front Porches. It was changed to Ain't Enough Front Porches.

Author's name is Molly Marx Brent changed to Molly Marks Brent.

After I paid an editor to make the corrections, PA refused to make them because there were too many. My friend had to do the entire thing over. Then PA sent the wrong set of proofs to the printer.

My nephew, a surgeon, read the e mails from their editor. He was laughing at the joke they were playing on me, but there was one slight problem. It was not a joke. The so called editor was very serious. Things like " All our departments has professionals who works with first time authors".

I'm not even sure that putting PA out of business will make me laugh. Seeing the big wigs in jail or having the 14 copies of my book that are still for sale being surgically removed from, well never mind.........

My book went to #22 on PA's best seller list. I have received one royalty payment of $35 for the first 6 months. Nothing since. My contract was cancelled a year ago and today I moved up from the 1900 range to 199 on PA's best seller list.

Molly

[Dawno]

Dang, Lola, I'd have to fight you for that one.

Heads up, people -- the Tour bus goes to Ohio tomorrow. Guess what that means? :wag:

Woohoo! I have relatives in that state so we can freeload off them.

[Passionate N.Y. Lady]

Thank you to those who/whom responded to my question on what happens to our books--should PA go belly up. I should have stated my question clearly, but I believe it was Chris who understood what I was asking.

The big sale I was referring to, was just as someone responded, take the money and run.

I am one of the PA banned-its. As I was reading through the most recent posts, here at AW, there was mention of a lady, Ann, who is in phase two of attempting to put PA on the straight and narrow. I like that idea. I have many friends at PA, and I myself have a book with them, so I would not like to hurt their reputation any more than it is already. If I can somehow be involved in getting them to clean up their act, I would be willing to do so, knowing the full details. There is more to be said for ‘reconstruction’ than ‘destruction’ of a company, to which our names are tied--for many years to come.

To my PA friends who have migrated here, "Hi, guys." Please, don’t give me away just yet, as I need to keep the lines of communications open with PA for a little bit longer, and knowing 'THEY' read these boards, the severing would surely be swift. I did get a reply from them, regarding my being banished and, true to form, it was most insulting.

[Ed Williams]

...and to say I'm tired would be the understatement of the century. Some real good things happened over the past couple of days:

1. Our show, "GRITS, Georgia, and Grizzard," sold out the theatre last night - 350 seats at $35 a pop. We were the fundraising act this year for the Helen Keller Foundation, which personally meant a lot to me. I can remember my elementary school teachers teaching us about Helen Keller, and I was impressed even then by her spirit and demeanor. She should be an inspiration to anyone and everyone, and to get a chance to help raise money for her foundation meant a whole lot to me.

2. After the show we had a big booksigning, and at one point I found myself surrounded by about 10-12 writers who wanted to talk about publishing. Folks, I tried to do us proud - I gave them the standard info you'd give anyone looking to be published, but I also added in this, "And let be advise y'all on this - whatever you do, don't go with the whores of the publishing industry, PublishAmerica. Laughing stock of the industry and then some. If you printed your books on toilet paper it would be worth more than a PA book will be to you." Then, I told 'em they should all join us over here at AW - I obviously told them about the literary benefits of doing so, but I also added in that they would get to hang and bang with Jenna, Uncle Jim, Dave, Sweet Victoria, Naughty Nancy, and some notable others, but, most of all, if they were really lucky that they might get some unusual recognition from ZaZ. If that doesn't encourage 'em to join us, nothing will.

3. Wow, all the new faces here! Welcome to all of you, I think you will both enjoy it here and learn a lot about writing to boot. If I can ever be of assistance to any of you, I am but an email away.

4. Aryn, in my eyes, you have moved up into the ranks of BTO and Elvis with your principled stand on the PA boards - you have earned my respect times three with that, not that you didn't have it already. And Bonnie, you continue to epitomize what class and character is all about...

5. Thanks to all of who who've welcomed me back, it is great to be here. Diana, my esteem for you grows...

6. Re Shemp, he may well show up here if his need for attention is at the level I think it is. Even if he does show up, I don't think it will amount to much. I don't think he could take being challenged for long, and he will be challenged here. Personally, I would not treat him impolitely, but I hope he stays dead and buried. I would welcome any person coming over to these boards who was sincere in their motives, but not him. Frankly, whatever happens to him concerns me in the least.

7. Jenna, I will be listening and cheering you on Sunday - you will be in real good hands with Bro Ed....

And now, I have to unpack, later everyone!

[lindylou45]

I'm still not officially back for any length of time but I wanted to say that I received this email, which would be my first book signing:


They also sent me the "catalog page copy" of the full page advert of my book for their Fall/Winter 2005 catalog. Good stuff. I'm near glee with love for what a real publisher does.[/font]

Congratulations Tina. Have a great time at your signing.

[Memphis Ed]

After the show we had a big booksigning, and at one point I found myself surrounded by about 10-12 writers who wanted to talk about publishing. Folks, I tried to do us proud - I gave them the standard info you'd give anyone looking to be published, but I also added in this, "And let be advise y'all on this - whatever you do, don't go with the whores of the publishing industry, PublishAmerica. Laughing stock of the industry and then some. If you printed your books on toilet paper it would be worth more than a PA book will be to you."

...and you wonder why Ed is "the man"...not "A man" but "THE man".

I'll take Ed, Uncle Jim, and Jenna against Shemp, Nightie Chick, and anyone else they choose, loser leave town, hair versus belt.

We're in good hands, folks.

[DaveKuzminski]

For the forty-seventh time, don't do this. The relationship between an author and PA is a business-to-business one, not a consumer transaction. Maryland's consumer protection laws do not apply to business-to-business transactions.

If you can answer this, it would be appreciated. I ask only out of curiosity. What about situations where the rights were fully reverted and the publisher is continuing to publish the book as appears to be the case for one or more writers? Is it a civil matter entirely or can the writer rely upon the government for anything?

[lindylou45]

I've added a new page to www.publishamericasucks.com called Banned. If anyone here would like to have the story of how you were banned from the PAMB on the website, please let me know. I'd like to have as many stories as possible up.

Thanks

[Ken Schneider]

Dang, Lola, I'd have to fight you for that one.

Heads up, people -- the Tour bus goes to Ohio tomorrow. Guess what that means? :wag:

Jesssh Ohio, that is where I'm from. Can we stop at my house for a minute. (Smile)

[Sher2]

Jesssh Ohio, that is where I'm from. Can we stop at my house for a minute. (Smile)
Why not? We stopped at Linda's. Can't stay long, though -- we have grave robbing to do.

[Ken Schneider]

That'll work, I need a couple more pair of joe Boxers.

[arrowqueen]

Ok Complete non sequitur - both Eds made me weak at the knees.

Why should other people's accents be such a turn-on?

[Ed Williams]

Ok Complete non sequitur - both Eds made me weak at the knees.

Why should other people's accents be such a turn-on?...we've been sweet talkin' each other for years, add in this PA related stuff and wow, explosive!

P.S. Is it true that Shemp got the "el-boot-ay" off the PA boards?

[Ken Schneider]

...we've been sweet talkin' each other for years, add in this PA related stuff and wow, explosive!

P.S. Is it true that Shemp got the "el-boot-ay" off the PA boards?


Ummmmmm. I believe one hen house queen called the chicken coop and said, pick one.

[Sarashay]

I've ordered a copy of Ten Percent of Nothing and it should be arriving in my mailbox soon. I have a question for those on the board who are veteran scam-busters:

How long were the Deerings in business before it all came crashing down?

How long have PA been in business?

Merely curious.

[astonwest]

I have it on good authority that SHEMP, too, has been banned! THere is atleast that small consolation.
Darn...what that usually means is he ends up taking his fight to the other message boards in desperation...completely with vileness and profanity...
*begins to rub temples*
Some posters point out how maintaining the author boards is a strategy for PA. Is it a good strategy?
As long as they can keep new authors from figuring out this strategy until they can sell around 75 copies, it seems like it...
Referencing result #5: Is Atlanta Nights really in its fourth edition?
Hot Diggity! Travis should be proud, selling out three editions... :)
If anyone here would like to have the story of how you were banned from the PAMB...
Which time? :ROFL:

[arrowqueen]

Yep, Ed. Remember the good old days when you were still involved with sex and dead dogs?
Ahh, nostalgia!

[James D. Macdonald]

I've been a good boy, I have, and as a result Santa brought my Christmas present early!

From the To the Bashers That Lurk Here (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/9059.htm) thread:

A PA author posts:
I recently sent a email to PA about the bashing and why they are saying such things,
This is their responce,

And that means it's time for a line-by-line on some Acquisitions Supervisor foolishness! (Is this PODette Michele Omran herself, I wonder?)


PublishAmerica sends marketing information for each title to RR. Bowker's Books In Print, Ingram, Baker & Taylor, The Brodart Company, Barnes & Noble.com, Barnes & Noble, and Amazon.com.

In other words, they buy an ISBN. $1.20 is the going rate.


This marketing information is distributed to each and every book retailer and library across the country, and is typically made available to review editors of most major newspapers and magazines.

That is, it's listed in Books In Print.

In addition,

In addition? Wait up! You haven't done anything yet!

PublishAmerica creates and sends a direct mail letter with book and news release marketing information, which is sent to individuals and businesses across the US, including magazines and newspapers.

Created with a mailmerge program. "[Name of author]'s book will quickly resonate with an audience." Sent when the contract is signed rather than a month before release, and not accompanied by a copy of the book, this is worthless.


These efforts have helped to generate hundreds and hundreds of feature articles and/or reviews about our authors and their books, some of which are posted on our web site.

Hundreds and hundreds (from thousands and thousands of books), and printedi mostly in small-town newspapers under "Local Man Writes Book" headlines. This is pathetic.


Also, PublishAmerica sends thousands of complete books, gratis, for review to magazines, newspapers, television, and radio programs.

Up to three per author! Only after the book is already out, and only if the reviewer requests the book. We hear over and over again of reviewers who request books that arrive months later, or never get sent at all. Again: Pathetic, and useless. This is just window dressing -- part of the effort to sell authors on sending their manuscripts to PA, rather than PA trying to sell books to the public.

Want proof that it doesn't work? Look at PA's sales figures.


PublishAmerica routinely attends industry events with book copies, professional cover displays, company literature, and real time book ordering opportunities from the web.

Really? Name one.

No, don't bother ... I found it. From 2003:PublishAmerica Presents Strong Presence At Random House Book Fair


The Annual Random House Book Fair in Westminister Maryland took place Saturday, November 9, 2003. PublishAmerica presented a bold presence as three company representatives and six authors were on hand.

The Random House Book Fair at Carroll Community College in Westminister, Maryland was a success. The event benefits charities and included events such as meet the local author, book signings, book sales, children's events, and a silent auction.

On hand at the event, were Miranda N. Prather, Editorial Director, and Rebecca Embree, Acquisitions editor of PublishAmerica. In addition, the company boasted one other representative and six local authors. Authors in attendence were: C.C. Colee, Anne K. Edwards, TJ Perkins, Linda Alexander, and DL Bolk. The event was successful for all the authors and the company.


Routinely? I suppose so. They went to the one in 2002 (http://www.publishamerica.com/Press/etsu.htm) also.



We also conduct workshops, lectures, and discussion groups at these events.

Ah, yes. Poor Michele Omran went to the Wrangling With Writing workshop earlier this year. Her presentation, "Crafting and Publishing with PublishAmerica" was scheduled on Saturday, opposite the Keynote Panel with the guest of honor. "Michele will discuss what PublishAmerica looks for in its books," the description says. What did she tell them, I wonder? "We want three hundred pages, at least thirty of which should be different"?

They also had presentations of various sorts at their 2004 Convention in Maryland. There wasn't a 2005 PA convention. Wonder why.

Also, PublishAmerica is growing internationally.

Web-based booksellers overseas also list our ISBNs!

Several PublishAmerica titles are under contract by publishers as far away as Korea and China.

Specifically: Sixteen books, in 2002.

These works have been translated into those languages and are for sale in those countries.

How're they selling?

Imagine having two versions of your book on your coffee table: English and Chinese!

And "imagine" is all you'll be able to do, since no new ones have been sold to Korea in the last three years. Another program, like the "Independence Books" imprint, that seems to have been forgotten.

As part of PublishAmerica's recent alliance with the British branch of Ingram, in the United Kingdom, PublishAmerica's books are now available from the best European distribution channels; through all major European bookstores, to more than 200 million European readers in the following countries:

England, Spain, Scotland, Ireland, Norway
Germany, Holland, Finland, Denmark, Belgium, Sweden

Ingram set up their own Lightning Source International printing plant in England. Big whoop. "Available" isn't the same as "stocked," and far, far different from "sold." Have I mentioned recently that Atlanata Nights is "available" in the same stores, in the same way?

And finally, in the expansion department, we are happy to announce the birth of two new daughter publishing companies in Europe.

Woo! In fact, those "two news daughter publishing companies in Europe" are just a pair of websites, hosted in the USA. PublishBritannica has zero books listed at http://www.amazon.co.uk/ . When you go to their website, you find they supposedly have 54 books, but when you search for those books at Amazon UK you discover the publisher's name is "PublishAmerica." Similar story for PublishIcelandica: No books from "PublishIcelandica" listed at Amazon UK or Amazon Germany. Sixteen books listed on their web page, but those all turn out to be listed as published by "PublishAmerica."

As well they should be. Look at their ISBNs: See the first digit, "1"?

That indicates that those are American books. The prefix for an Icelandic publisher is "9979."

PUBLISHBRITANNICA will serve new authors in Britain, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland, while PUBLISHICELANDICA opened its doors last October for Icelandic authors, with an eye towards possible further expansion into Scandinavia.

Last October? How old is this letter? Publish Icelandica opened its doors in October, 2003, and PublishBritannica in early '04. There was even an Icelandic section of the PA message board for a while (you can still find it at archive.org), which was shut down after they discovered that none of the PA monitors spoke Icelandic.

Last year we took the majority of our staff, and some of our authors, to Iceland to celebrate!

They must be talking about October, 2003, trip to Iceland. This letter is over a year old.

We promote each book to virtually every vendor from sea to shining sea, and go to great lengths, and expense, to ensure that everyone in the industry knows about it.

They pay the extra promotion fee to Lightning Source? Wowsers! That's an extra twelve bucks!

Let's see: Promotions expenses. $1.20 for ISBN. $12.00 for Lighning's service that sends the book description and cover picture to the on-line booksellers. $1.60 for postage to send the press releases (assuming they do it hard-copy). $16.00 to send the order forms to friends and family. $12.65 for the review copies that they may send out, plus another $3.00 in postage there. Add half an hour's time by a minimum wage employee and we've got it. "Great ... expense" is fifty clams.

Shorter version: That last sentence of theirs was a lie.

Consequently, your book is available through each and every bookstore in the country, and all those bookstores have all pertinent information at their fingertips.

"Available." Heh heh heh. She said "available." So's bleedin' Atlanta Nights.

We are also nominating our best books for awards, including the Pulitzer prize,

No PublishAmerica book has ever been nominated for the Pulitzer prize. If they're claiming that they've submitted some of their books -- talk is cheap. I wonder if they could back that up under oath in court?

When Diana Hignutt's Moonsword was nominated for a Spectrum Award, the awards committee asked PublishAmeirca for review copies. PublishAmerica turned them down.

and we have negotiated a special promotion deal with all Barnes & Noble bookstores.

I wonder what that "special promotion" is? It's Barnes & Noble's company policy not to stock PA books. We have that direct from B&N's corporate headquarters.

Barnes & Noble could select your title to be added to their InPrint section, virtually guaranteeing it 48-hour availability in all of their stores.

Barnes & Noble ended its InPrint program in summer of '03.


Best Regards,


Acquisitions Supervisor
PublishAmerica

I don't suppose it was signed with a human name, do you?

It looks to me like this letter was written sometime in early 2004, when Michele Omran was still in college, though possibly with parts from earlier letters -- the thing about InPrint, for example.

Wouldn't it be special if PA had answered the question about "the bashing and why they are saying such things"?

Oh -- great moments in press release writing (http://www.publishamerica.com/iceland.htm):

"This week PublishAmerica is making a big splash in the middle of the North Atlantic."

What, they were planning to push Willem Meiners out of the airplane at 20,000 feet?

[James D. Macdonald]

How long were the Deerings in business before it all came crashing down?

Deering agency was founded in 1989. The FBI arrived at their door in 1999. Ten years.

How long have PA been in business?

Coming up on six.

[Ken Schneider]

Uncle Jim,
I've got my short timers calendar hanging up now, counting the days.

FTPA.

[lindylou45]

Which time? :ROFL:


All of them if you want.

[astonwest]

...time for a line-by-line...
And what's really amusing (and maybe I just missed it) is that the response doesn't have anything to do with the original request, as to why the "bashers" are saying all these things about PA...

[reph]

"This week PublishAmerica is making a big splash in the middle of the North Atlantic."
Didn't something like that happen to the Titanic? Oh, no, I guess it went down slowly.

[James D. Macdonald]

And what's really amusing (and maybe I just missed it) is that the response doesn't have anything to do with the original request, as to why the "bashers" are saying all these things about PA...

100% correct, Big Daddy!

This letter didn't answer the question!

[writerjenn]

Go away for a week and look what happens! Welcome to all the new faces, and some not so new (yeah Rita!).
I'm still here (but kinda offline with computer troubles) until Monday. Nobody move until I get back.

Jenn

[astonwest]

This letter didn't answer the question!
*holding money bag in left hand*
"Watch this hand!" *waving right hand frantically*

[reph]

Top Ten Reasons PA Wants to Make a Big Splash in the Middle of the North Atlantic

10. The principals need a bath.

9. POD really stands for Prance or Drown.

8. Free lessons in Icelandic!

7. They plan to cut costs even further by outsourcing the editing to whales.

6. Somebody's confusing "The Perfect Storm" with "The Perfect Scam."

5. They need support for that "sea to shining sea" claim.

4. The IRS has more liberal rules for fishermen than for publishers.

3. It's looking like mutiny on the author boards, anyway.

2. They want to find out whether Shemp really can walk on water.

AND THE NUMBER ONE REASON:

1. They think they can escape the law by doing business outside the three-mile limit.

[mdmkay]

I HAVE HAD IT!!!! It was bad enough that I was "stipid" enough to go with PA but apparently now I'm to "stipid" to know what to do about it!!! I made 13 damn long distance phone calls and was told that reporting them to the atty general was what I was supposed to do. IF ANYONE WANTS TO DRAW THE DIMWIT A MAP ON WHAT THE HELL I'M SUPPOSED TO DO THEN DO IT. I've played nasy email with PA until I'm heartily sick of it. I even got them on the phone once after about 40 calls in 3 months (why was I surprised when I got some idiot who was more stipid then I was) DOES IT SOUND LIKE I'M FRUSTRATED HERE????? If you tell me what to do I'll do it but I'm tired of hearing complaints and put downs of PA with no practical advice on what the hell to do

[MMo]

Somebody tell me what to do. I received this tonight at 11:30.....It doesn't appear to have anything to do with the book, but that's the only association I ever had with Amazon.

Dear Amazon customer,

We recently reviewed your account, and suspect that your Amazon account may have been stolen.
(http://pgtc.com/%7Ebarbmc1/exec/obidos/flex-sign-in/ref=ya_hp_pay_1/102-7651544-8302514/)
(FRAUDULENT INFORMATION SNIPPED)

Please do not reply to this e-mail. Mail sent to this address cannot be answered.

http://www.mac.com/Webmail.woa/Contents/WebServerResources/spacer.gif

Oh, don't click on that link. This is a "phishing" expedition. The link doesn't really lead to Amazon but to a scammer's site where they will attempt to harvest your personal information.

These come in purportedly from E-bay, Amazon, Paypal, your bank, your credit card.

Hold your mouse over the link and you will see that it doesn't go where the text says it does.

Mo

[James D. Macdonald]

mdmkay, we're all doing the best we can.

Ann has her "Phase II" thing going, I have my own minor plan in operation, but we're learning as we go.

Your letters weren't wasted.

We're writers. So we write. Write to everyone you can think of. Your local newspaper. Your congressman. You own state's Attorney General. The President of the United States. Go hard-copy. Be calm. Be reasonable. Tell your story, the Joe-Friday-facts, dates, times, places, and exact quotes.

The day will come when this house of cards in Maryland will fall. Yours may be the letter that knocks it over.

Willem is betting that he'll wear you down. That he'll outlast you. That you'll get tired, or discouraged, or bored. That you'll go away. He wants you to feel small, to feel powerless, to feel stupid. That's his game.

Show him he's wrong.

Take heart. You're not alone.

Hundreds or thousands of PA authors and others are beside you. Good will triumph over evil, truth over lies.

[MMo]

I HAVE HAD IT!!!! It was bad enough that I was "stipid" enough to go with PA but apparently now I'm to "stipid" to know what to do about it!!! I made 13 damn long distance phone calls . . .
(SNIPPED)


I feel your frustration. It's late, and it may be a while before someone gets around with some practical information, but let me at least offer you empathy. I've not been a PA author, but some of what you're going through reminds me of a particularly nasty experience I had with a credit card company that used strong arm tactics and never posted payments on time -- in fact never posted them until after the interest rate went up and the collection enforcer called. It got so bad that I would instigate the call every month, and even then I wound up in tears of frustration and anger. (The company got sued by an AG and was subject to several class action suits for their tactics.)

Bullies of all stripes want us to feel stipid. They want us confused and frustrated and lashing out. That way we lose focus. What they don't realize is that their tactics can backfire on them -- IF instead of losing focus, we develop contacts with other folks who refuse to be victimized.

I in no way want to denigrate your feelings, far from it. It's because this scammer can reduce us to these feelings that I'm here. Please take heart. You are not alone. And you will not be alone when justice is finally done.

Mo
(PS -- my share of the huge fine that credit card company paid was $.67, paid in two installments. I photocopied the checks, but I cashed them. Oh, yes, you bet I did.)

[astonwest]

We recently reviewed your account, and suspect that your Amazon account may have been stolen. In the last 2 weeks several atempts to buy expensive Audio Equipment. Since the orders where over 5000 USD we decided to hold the order. If you have orderd the Audio Equipment please inform Amazon staff to remove your account restriction. If not please follow the linke below and complete the necesary steps to regain accees to your account.

Similar type "phishing" expeditions come from credit card companies and banks...the spelling and grammar problems are usually the first dead giveaway...
Never ever click the link...

[NancyMehl]

...Then, I told 'em they should all join us over here at AW - I obviously told them about the literary benefits of doing so, but I also added in that they would get to hang and bang with Jenna, Uncle Jim, Dave, Sweet Victoria, Naughty Nancy, and some notable others, but, most of all, if they were really lucky that they might get some unusual recognition from ZaZ. If that doesn't encourage 'em to join us, nothing will.

First of all, way to go with your show! You're da bomb! (Not sure what that means, but the teenage nephew of a friend called me that once. I think it's a good thing...)

Secondly....how did I get to be "Naughty Nancy?" I think I behave myself rather well.... I don't spit, curse, chew anyone out.....

I'm so confused.

I've think I've been knocked several rungs down the echelon ladder.

Somehow this is Dawno's fault. :mad:

Nancy

[James D. Macdonald]

Forward the original letter to uce@ftc.gov then delete it. DO NOT click on the link!

Avoid Getting Tricked by Scam Websites (http://www.niagaracu.com/escam.htm)
How to Recognize Phishing (http://gongol.com/howto/recognizephishing/)
What is Phishing? (http://www.capitalone.com/credit101/fraud/phishing.shtml?linkid=WWW_Z_Z_Z_HOME_R2_01_T_PHIS)


And, just to stay on-topic:

The Truth About PublishAmerica (http://www.freewebs.com/truthaboutpa/)

[whitewolfzty]

I It is amazing, finding so many with such hatred for one entity. I am not yet weaned from my Publisher, albeit I am not sure of anything, now. I must admit a great deal of what I read makes some semblance of sense. I am just not ready to jump on the Bashing wagon, as of now. I knew what I was doing when I was banned, it was intentional and I have no regrets. It was, likely, more out of desperation than escape, I haven't written anything on my sequel in weeks for having spent so much time on their MB. Now, I find, I am typing away on another MB. Is this confusing or what?
I think I need a drink; a line of Tequila shooters comes to mind, along with a shaker of sea salt and fresh limes. That's the ticket, now maybe I can clear some of these blasted cobwebs.
Thanks for listening,
and, yes, I will be back,
Whitewolfzty

[JennaGlatzer]

how did I get to be "Naughty Nancy?"

I think he meant it in the "sexy" way... :)

[Dawno]

_snip_

I'm so confused.

I've think I've been knocked several rungs down the echelon ladder.

Somehow this is Dawno's fault. :mad:

Nancy

I resemble that remark!

[lindylou45]

DOES IT SOUND LIKE I'M FRUSTRATED HERE????? If you tell me what to do I'll do it but I'm tired of hearing complaints and put downs of PA with no practical advice on what the hell to do

Only you can determine if your book is worth this fight or not. Frustration is a major complication of trying to get your book back from PublishAmerica (http://www.publishamericasucks.com).

Willem Meiners, Larry Clopper, and Miranda Prather (http://www.publishamericasucks.com/three.html) are trying to make your situation as frustrating as they possibly can. They're betting you will give up long before you get your rights back. Are you going to take that bet?

I've been at this for almost a year now. Has it been frustrating -- YES! (http://www.publishamericasucks.com/myexperience.html) I've chosen to continue to take these crooks on, not so much for those that have already signed, but for those that are looking for a publisher and are contemplating PA.

That doesn't mean I'm not concerned about how other PA authors are doing and thier frustration levels. The people here are wonderful in that they will allow you to vent and rant, and then you pick up your weapon of choice and start all over again.

There are many things you can do. Most of them involve writing letters (http://www.publishamericasucks.com/you.html) -- that's going to mean no immediate results -- but if you look at the PAMB and the actions of the New Three Stooges and the POD Squad (http://www.publishamericasucks.com/pod.html), you can see something is happening. I've heard a lot of rumors about things in the works -- some I believe and some I don't -- but I have to believe they won't be around forever. I've got this little website (http://www.publishamericasucks.com) that makes me feel much better, it may not make much of a difference in the long run, but it makes me feel that I'm doing something to help.

Another thing to do is start writing your next book. Don't get so caught up in this that it makes you sick -- I've done it and it's not fun -- take some time away from it every once in a while.

There is no rhyme or reason as to why PA is giving certain people their rights back and holding on to others. I've sold 10 copies of my first book and zero of the second. They refuse to give me my rights back. I think it's spite myself, but who really knows.

You're at the beginning of your fight, trust me you have a long way to go. Frustration will become something you'll have to deal with on a daily basis. We're doing what we can, you need to do the same.

Good luck to you.

[Dawno]

I'm trying to do my bit by posting something on my blog every day that relates to the efforts here and elsewhere to bring some fair treatment and honest dealings to PA authors.

Tonite I'm talking about our Atlanta Nights Cover Competition and Memphis Ed's radio show. Feel free to wander on over and leave a comment if you'd like to. I'm operating under the impression (delusion?) this might actually help in some small way. This isn't a shameless plug for my blog, btw; I just wanted to let you know that there's one more voice out there that's on your side.

[MacAllister]

...when it gets really awful, remind yourself that they aren't supervillains. They're just plain, old-fashioned crooks. And the way to catch crooks is to painstakingly gather evidence and document wrongdoing.

[mdin]

I just read this (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/general/2326.htm) thread on the PA bb, and I realized the board has officially cycled again. I look at the PA board more often than I really should, and I don't recognize a single person. This happens quite a bit, but there's a big difference this time. Before, the cycles always happened immediately after the royalty period. We had one just two and a half months ago. Now these shifts are coming more rapidly.

***

On another note, I was wondering if anyone thought about informing members of the Icelandic government about PA's issues here in the US. They're big fans of scandal over there (I'm a big fan of Iceland, in case you haven't figured that out yet. I will go there one day), and since the government is quite a bit smaller than it is here, and they may be interested.

Iceland's Minister of Commerce's website is here:
http://eng.idnadarraduneyti.is/minister/about-the-minister

She speaks English, so if any of you have well-thought-out letters, you may consider sending her one, too.

If you want to poke around the official website, it's here: http://government.is

[James D. Macdonald]

Oooh!

I feel so blessed! I guess saying my prayers every night and going to church on Sunday has paid off big time.

Denison "Denny" Hatch, who we last saw being quoted in the ABC-TV news (http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/041205_cr_bookpublisher.html) story on PublishAmerica (http://www.freewebs.com/truthaboutpa/), and who I handily (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=118783&postcount=3103) demolished (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=127514&postcount=11900) last time he cropped up, has decided to speak again (http://pricelineandthemedia.com/doc/aboutpa3.html)!

Denny's noticed Atlanta Nights (http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/041205_cr_bookpublisher.html).

I feel a line-by-line coming on, but it'll have to wait a bit. I have a pretty full day planned and playing with this goofball isn't my highest priority.

[Trepanny Peck]

(I'm a big fan of Iceland, in case you haven't figured that out yet. I will go there one day)


I loved it when I went there. Great country.

[Diana Hignutt]

Greetings to all the new folks! Welcome! You have found the right place to learn the truth about publishing. The people here, called bashers by the misinformed, are among the nicest, most caring people I have ever encountered. Many are professional authors (meaning that they make their living by writing books), others are legitimately published authors (who still have to work other jobs), others are ex-PA authors, some are authors who want to be published, and others are just good people who hate to see evil wrought on the innocent. I have been where you are now. There is hope after PA. Know that. And know that you have found the right place. That, in itself, is a start.


Diana Hignutt
Author of Empress of Clouds (Behler), a 2004 ForeWord Magazine Book of the Year Finalist for Science Fiction and a 2005 Spectrum Award Nominee.

[Ken Schneider]

Oooh! Denison "Denny" Hatch, who we last saw being quoted.....



The last line of this story rings true.

" Ultimately, PublishAmerica will make it possible for you to do something that every one of your friends and family would give their eye-teeth for -- a book with your name on the cover."

Yes, your family would give their eye teeth to buy their loved ones book. Mom, Dad, Aunty and the rest will fork over twenty bucks for your book,hence the price.

No one would have to, (give any teeth up) Everyone can get in to see the wizard, in POZ.

[astonwest]

Denison "Denny" Hatch, who we last saw being quoted in the ABC-TV news (http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/041205_cr_bookpublisher.html) story on PublishAmerica (http://www.freewebs.com/truthaboutpa/), and who I handily (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=118783&postcount=3103) demolished (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=127514&postcount=11900) last time he cropped up, has decided to speak again (http://pricelineandthemedia.com/doc/aboutpa3.html)!
Holy moly! He spent between $10,000 and $15,000 publishing his book with PA?
:faint:

[Susan Gable]

Holy moly! He spent between $10,000 and $15,000 publishing his book with PA?
:faint:

Yes, he said that. But...I thought it didn't cost anything to get your book published with PA?

What I want to know is how much of that money he recouped in royalties. Can I see a show of hands of people who think he made that money back?

<scanning crowd>

Anyone? Anyone???

Nope, me either.

Hey, if the Tour Bus is in Ohio, you all need to stop over here in Erie and have a visit. I'll bake some brownies, and we can wash them down with my special Mud Slides.

Susan G.

[MartyKay]

Yes they do. Here's a sample.

Mine. Hardly anyone used the old highway.
Hers. Hardly, anyone used the old highway.

Oh. Oh my.

Then I received an e mail saying I was afraid to use and didn't know how to use commas but not to worry. "We all needs help sometimes".

Oh my god. :Wha:

After I paid an editor to make the corrections, PA refused to make them because there were too many. My friend had to do the entire thing over. Then PA sent the wrong set of proofs to the printer.
Bet you a dollar?

"Proofs"?? Weird term to use with POD technology, isn't it? I knew a company that did short run printing, they took the floppy disk with the work on it and dropped it into their system, and out came the printing. You send the "wrong set", well.. given that a whole FIVE copies are printed, how hard is it to send the RIGHT files and say "oops, sorry about that"... oh.. hang on, I thought I was talking about a company that was ethical. Sorry about that...

Plus... I've read stories of mistakes made during print runs for real publishers, where they realise a big error and PULP THE LOT... (Or, wasn't it "Nine Princes in Amber" that got pulped by mistake??)

[Ed Williams]

....that Great and Mighty Land known as Poz, we find the following:

I have a friend here on the boards who has found a very nice way of getting his books on the shelves.
He had friends to go into the stores and ask for the book. After so many requests for the book the stores began to carry them theirselves.While we're at it, let's also believe in the Easter Bunny, the Loch Ness Monster, and Dorothy Deering. This whole PA thing of allowing their authors to come up with these "dead before they get out of the gate" marketing schemes is really depressing.

In the category of "how sad," we find this:

I just called my order in on Wednesday. The call took about three minutes. I gave her my name, the title of the book and my credit card number. Got a confirmation number which they also emailed and I was done.

Perhaps it's something PA should think about. At least setting up a toll free number for us to call.And in the category of "something even sadder," we find this:

As for buying our own books, it is mostly to get them out into the public eye. After that happens you won't have to buy any more books.Re Denny Hatch, I read his latest, and I will leave it to Uncle Jim to perform the complete dissection, but I will offer up this. Mr. Hatch:

1) A lot of us who complain about PA's business practices have never published one book with them and never intend to do so, we just don't like seeing fellow writers being taken to the cleaners by a notorious vanity POD outfit. 2) Reading the following part of your little dissertation tells me all I need to know:

Would I publish with PublishAmerica again? Maybe yes, maybe no. Right now I have a completed novel in the computer ready to go. But I also am running a business and have a bunch of clients that require handholding and who enable me to pay my bills. I do not have time to promote a book. Maybe when I retire and have some time I will self-publish or give it over to PublishAmerica (if they will have it). But not now.

Ultimately, PublishAmerica will make it possible for you to do something that every one of your friends and family would give their eye-teeth for -- a book with your name on the coverUmmm, this is like saying that if all of your family and friends want a woman that the local hooker is available at reasonable rates. Big accomplishment....

Finally, Nancy love, when I nickname you something consider it a very good thing. "Naughty Nancy" has that certain sizzle to it, and god do I love sizzle! Worry if I nickname you "Wax Sandwich Nance," or "Nod Off Nancy" or something like that. I think yer da mega, BTO caliber bomb!

[Sarashay]

Ultimately, PublishAmerica will make it possible for you to do something that every one of your friends and family would give their eye-teeth for -- a book with your name on the cover

I can't parse that sentence to save my life. You'll be able to do a book? Huh? To say nothing of the fact that your friends and family don't need to give their eyeteeth to get a book with their own names on the cover--they just need enough pages to resemble a manuscript that they can send to PA. Or maybe they meant that they'll have to give their eyeteeth for a book with your name on the cover, which is probably true, given the prices PA slaps on the books.

[Jaws]

Is it a civil matter entirely or can the writer rely upon the government for anything?
Sarcastically, the only thing one can ever rely upon the government to do is entrench civil servants and take care of major campaign financiers.

Note, though, that "civil" and "government" overlap considerably. Most securities actions, for example, are "civil" in nature, not criminal prosecutions—regardless of the myths perpetuated by inaccurate media coverage. Similarly, a lot of outright fraud gets handled through the civil side. In exchange for not being able to get jail time, the government only has to prove by a preponderence of the evidence ("more probable than not"), not beyond a reasonable doubt. It's a tactical decision.

That said, I think you were really asking "Is there a government agency that will pay attention to these kinds of complaints?" Well, there are several that are supposed to; it's a question of priorities and persuasiveness as much as anything else. What you're really looking for are agencies that concern themselves with "unfair trade practices." In the US government, that is primarily (but not exclusively) the FTC. There is a part of the Maryland AG's office that is concerned with unfair trade practices, and that part is one of the targets of Phase Two. Here in Illinois—which is the more typical instance—it's divided by subject area, rather than an umbrella agency. For example, unfair trade practices in agriculture are handled through a two-person office in the Department of Agriculture.

[ResearchGuy]

I It is amazing, finding so many with such hatred for one entity....
I believe that "contempt" and "righteous indignation" are more accurate terms than "hatred." And it is not an entity, as such, toward which the contempt and indignation are directed, but rather the principals (and for that matter, lack of principles) of the company.

--Ken

[NancyMehl]

....Finally, Nancy love, when I nickname you something consider it a very good thing. "Naughty Nancy" has that certain sizzle to it, and god do I love sizzle! Worry if I nickname you "Wax Sandwich Nance," or "Nod Off Nancy" or something like that. I think yer da mega, BTO caliber bomb!

Ed,

Ya know what I love about you?

You make this 51 year old (almost 52 year old) "Wax Sandwich Nance" FEEL like a BTO caliber bomb - just like you do with everyone you come in contact with!

You're a true blue Southern gentleman with a heart of gold and a mouth full of BTO caliber charm.

No wonder we can't do without you here. You have the power to brighten the day. Quite a gift.

Never, never, NEVER go away again - ya hear????

Now, back to to PA......

Mr. WhiteWolfzty,

I know you said that you knew what you were getting into...but I have to ask you if you really did.

Did you know that you wouldn't be able to get your books into stores?

Did you know that PA had an absolutely horrible reputation in the industry? (I am a book reviewer. Trust me, I know what their rep is.)

Did you know their books were overpriced?

Did you know that most of their submissions weren't read?

Did you know that most of their books were not edited?

Did you know that many of their books were not publishable? Should never have been published?

Did you know that they were not really sending out press releases the way they claimed?

Did you know about the man they sent in person to threaten Kevin Yarborough? (sp?)

Did you know how they shut out their own authors from their message board when they asked questions about things they didn't want public?

Did you know the way they responded to their authors in e-mails when they asked questions? (The infamous "don't take that tone with us e-mails.)

Did you know about me? I sold over 1300 books that I know of. By their own admission - I sold "thousands" of books I was never paid for. They dropped me for lack of potential sales.

Ken - these people are snakes. Pure and simple. Their business model is to publish anyone. Overprice the books. Get the authors to buy their own books and sell them to friends and family. That's it. Pure and simple. They could care less about their authors.

Did you really know that?

I am really glad you're here. This is a tough process. It takes time. These people took your dreams. You probably wrote a terrific book. Unfortunately, the good writers get caught up with the writers who need some seasoning. Everyone gets hurt. That's why some of these people keep fighting.

Diana Hignutt doesn't need to be here. She's on her way. She will be quite successful in her genre. Trust me. She could blow this off and walk away in a minute - as could several other people here. But these "bashers" keep at it for people just like you. Because they really, really care. They don't want to see people like you chewed up and spit out.

Please keep coming here. I have a feeling that you're standing on the edge of "basherdom." When you see the damage that's been done to so many, you'll jump in with both feet.

Be careful, though. There's this whole echelon ladder thing. Dawno gets cranky if you try to push her off. <G>

Welcome.

Nancy

[Memphis Ed]

This states the case as well as it can be said. Well done, Nancy.

[Gratian Gasparri]

After the incident the other day with a PA author at my daughter's school fair, I decided to visit the Chapters at Rideau Center in Ottawa. This is the first bookstore I have seen in the Ottawa area that stocks a PA book. They stock only that of the local children's author who I met at the school fair. There were no other PA books in the store. Additionally, and I am not sure if I used their computer system correctly, but it appeared that there were no other PA books stocked in any Ottawa area Chapters (which is Canada's largest book chain) and possibly Coles (the second largest book chain in Canada, but owned by the same company as Chapters) as well. Secondly, if I used the computer system correctly, it appears that this particular PA book was only stocked in the Rideau center Chapters. Ottawa is Canada's capital as well as fourth largest city.

[Literary Lola]

Denison "Denny" Hatch, who we last saw being quoted in the ABC-TV news (http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/041205_cr_bookpublisher.html) story on PublishAmerica (http://www.freewebs.com/truthaboutpa/), and who I handily (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=118783&postcount=3103) demolished (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=127514&postcount=11900) last time he cropped up, has decided to speak again (http://pricelineandthemedia.com/doc/aboutpa3.html)!
Smoley Hokes! A mystery solved! Denny is the one writing all those "tone" letters. One of his lines opines that everyone's "whining" about Publish Anything is "absolute nonsense." Does that have a familiar resonance, or what?

I especially love the part where he talks about AL and states the Publish Anything accepted it it in good faith. Good faith? So that's how publishers are suppsed to work these days? Gee, what happened to doing it the old fashioned way and actually reading a submission? I'd laugh myself silly but I'm afraid my bladder can't take the mirth. Anyone have a good fire sale on Depends?

[ResearchGuy]

Random house's book browsing page, http://www.randomhouse.com/category/, offers an instructive contrast to PA's "new this week" page and lack of a catalog by author, title, and subject. For PA authors, or those considering PA, perhaps a comparative look will be instructive. (Is it not odd that PA books cannot be listed by subject, and that there is no comprehensive catalog by author, by title, and by subject? Does any established publisher lack such a catalog? What does this lack of a PA book catalog say? Why do new releases appear only for a week, and only in a long page of covers, not listed by author, by title, or by subject? Why is there no cumulative catalog in text form?)

Of similar interest, Simon and Schuster: http://www.simonsays.com/content/index.cfm?sid=33. S&S, by the way, has its own discussion boards: http://bbs.simonsays.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi. Those are open to everyone, not just S&S authors.

Also of interest, Baen, www.baen.com (http://www.baen.com/).

--Ken

[Literary Lola]

...so I can continue laughing with ease. This comment from Denny nearly sent me into spasms.
"I bought 200 pre-publication copies to send to reviewers. PublishAmerica charged me close to their cost and put an ugly yellow triangle in the upper right corner of the cover that said: "FOR REVIEW ONLY. NOT FOR SALE."
Garsh, my publisher did all that for me. I didn't pay a dime. What's sad is I'm betting the poor guy sent them to all the big time reviewers. You know the ones I'm talking about...the ones who don't review POD's.

And those minxes at PA only charged him "close to their cost" for his review copies. Now, just what the h-e-double hockey sticks does that mean? Charging $20 for a book that they printed up for $5 is "close to their costs" depending on which side of the ledger sheet you’re standing. Unless Denny saw exactly what PA paid for them, ol' Lola be bettin' this was a major coup for the padding of Wee Willy Meiners, Clod-the-Hopper, and Moe’s Grand Cayman accounts.



I can see the conversation now. “Whee doggies, we got us a livewire, Larry! This dolt wants 200 review copies. Har har, we don’t do review copies.”



In all seriousness, thought, adding the “review only” to his cover won’t mean Jack. Reviewers look at the release date, which is normally five to six months down the road. POD’s don’t have a release date. They look for quality. PA doesn’t offer quality.



This guy spent 10 grand to “get his book out there”? Yikers, for that amount of buckaroos, I coulda visited the Threesome Gruesome’s bank account in the Grand Caymans. This is just blind love. He has shelled out a bucketload of $$ in the blind hope that he’ll become the next best thing since toilet paper and he’s written an article about the evils of those who hate PA. This isn’t a case of too much Koolaid. This was a brain transplant.

[B.L. Robinson]

I was thinking... or maybe not, that depends on your point of view...

My book (with PA) used a photgraph that was photoshopped. Now, my question is this. If they took it off of the web, according to the little bit of research that I did today, that would be a violation of the photographers copyright? According to copyright law, an image is considered copyrighted as soon as it is 'posted' online. Wonder if this could be a bargaining chip in regaining my rights? Or if the AG office would be interested in it, especially if I could find the original photo again? (I did once.)

I was luckier than most in my adventures with PA. I spent nothing, and did no promotion other than setting up a free web site, more for my own experience than anything. I still have my first royalty check, framed here next to my computer desk along with my royalty statement... 13 books... but the check is worth much more to me than the $18.19 cents that is the face value, lol. I plan on keeping it right where it is to inspire me as I work to get my writing accepted by a REAL publisher!

Bruce

[B.L. Robinson]

Dolan, I went through the same thing as far as my book being 'available'. Bookstores ordering multiple copies would only recieve one. I suppose that was the final straw that pushed me over to the "dark side", as another ex-PA author just told me.


Bruce

[B.L. Robinson]

No, Ann, I haven't changed the web site yet. I hadn't thought of it, to tell the truth! I am still lobbying PA for my rights back, but so far I have yet to get any sort of acknowledgment from them at all.


Bruce

[B.L. Robinson]

I would bring the cookies, but by my head count of unhappy PA authors I might be baking for a while...


Bruce

[lindylou45]

I'm operating under the impression (delusion?) this might actually help in some small way.

You'll be surprised how much it will help, Dawno.


This isn't a shameless plug for my blog, btw; I just wanted to let you know that there's one more voice out there that's on your side.

Who knows, your "one more voice" may save many, many people from having to deal with what we've gone through. Thanks for all you're doing. With all of us working together like this we just might have them on the run! :scared: :gone:

[Memphis Ed]

Jaws-

I don't have a PA contract, so I can't check on this question myself, but it is this: Are PA contracts assignable by the author? In other words, could a PA author transfer all their rights to someone else?