The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

[KW]

"The earliest contracts, issued in late 1999/early 2000, show the name AmErica House. "

The books I have are from 2001 and 2002. And, if I'm not mistaken, a few are still printed under that logo now. I will have to look and see if I can find any.

Kevin

[KW]

www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/5044.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/5044.htm)

One woman suggested all PA authors flood the editor with emails complaning to him. Well, couldn't this be considered harassment?

Kevin

[HapiSofi]

Dee Power said PublishAmerica said:“PublishAmerica continues to grow faster than any other traditional publisher, and today we are apparently the most popular publisher among new authors. More than 50 new authors contact us every day, hoping to join you as a PublishAmerica author. That's more than 12,000 hopefuls per year. At least 80 percent of them never make it to the "published author" status, because they don't pass our acquisitions process, but that does not seem to discourage anyone from submitting their work to us in ever growing, and frankly astonishing, numbers.”Dee Power then said:They have been contacted by 12,000 “hopefuls” and they decline 80%, which would mean that they would publish 2400 books a year or 200 a month. They published more than double that in June and are on that same level for July. They published 400 titles a month in June and July? You couldn't ask for clearer proof that PublishAmerica's books don't get bookstore distribution. If there were 400 PA titles a month hitting the stores in North America, you wouldn't be able to walk into a bookstore without seeing copies of PA titles on every side, one after another, piled up and spilling over, in every area and category.

You'd also be seeing media coverage of this phenomenon. Four hundred titles a month is a hell of a lot of books for such a young publishing house. There'd also be interesting second-order effects. A non-returnable book that doesn't sell just squats there, taking up shelf space, crowding out other books. If that were happening, authors at other houses would be screaming bloody murder. (Authors are good at that.) Readers who couldn't find their usual authors would be complaining as well. And needless to say, bookstore owners and managers would be wailing and gnashing their teeth.

Come to think of it, if PublishAmerica is publishing 400 titles a month, you should be able to test whether they're getting bookstore distribution just by looking at the sidewalks in front of the stores. It's simple: PA books aren't returnable; many of them are virtually unsaleable; and bookstores can't afford to let them tie up their shelf space forever. Therefore, if there aren't cardboard freebie boxes or "any book $1.00" bookshelves full of PA titles sitting out in front of America's bookstores right now, PA can't be getting bookstore distribution.

Here's an easy test that can be run by any writer thinking of signing a contract with PublishAmerica: Go to the biggest bookstore in your area. Ask how many books they stock that are published by PA. If the bookstore doesn't have scores of titles and hundreds of copies, then PublishAmerica is lying to you.

Bookstore distribution isn't the only fib PA tells, but it's one you can test for yourself before you do or say anything else.

[DaveKuzminski]

"FACT #3: Again, unparalleled among all traditional book publishing companies, each day an average 15 times a PublishAmerica author appears in the news media, in newspapers, magazines, radio or TV. The authors of this book publishing company have been interviewed, reviewed or introduced in literally thousands of newspapers across the country, from the Washington Post to the Clackamas County News, from the Kingwood Observer to the Los Angeles Times to Women's World Magazine. They have made appearances on local TV, and on national ABC, CNN, MSNBC and FOX TV. They also have been interviewed by radio shows hosts such as Rush Limbaugh, Don Imus, Diane Rehm, and Oliver North."

Okay, I have a problem with this section of PA's claims. Using just a thirty-day month, this would be on the order of 450 media appearances, regardless of which kind of media it is since PA is clearly not distinguishing among the types.

Um, okay, PA, prove it. Pick any month from 2004 and list all of the appearances in the media that PA has arranged.

Uh, too many days? Okay, make it just one week from a month in 2004. You get to pick the month and week. Surely, PA can document how they arranged that many appearances for their authors. It's just seven measly days totaling a mere 105 media appearances.

Okay, how about just one day, PA? Show us where PA arranged fifteen or more appearances for its authors. PA gets to pick the best day from this year to prove how it arranged media appearances. Surely, PA can do that to back up its IMPLIED claim that PA was responsible for those authors being interviewed, reviewed, or introduced. In not, then it needs to be mentioned in the claim that the authors were responsible for those appearances, which I still suspect do not average out to 15 per day.

[KW]

FACT #11: We assign an editor who goes through the text line by line. Let's put this in perspective. We don't touch style issues, we don't edit the author's voice, tone, or delivery. We edit for spelling, mechanics, grammar, typos, and trust us, that's a vital and time consuming job. Together, our editing staff makes more than 35,000 (!) corrections, each day, to the books they work on that day. We then send a book back to the author, up to three times, to ensure that it looks exactly as the author wants it to look. We assign a graphic designer who comes up with a unique cover design. They communicate with the authors, to hear their suggestions and ideas, so that they can be incorporated into the design. All of that takes time, and we believe that the authors WANT it to take time. After all, this is their life's work. They want it to be treated accordingly. They want time control, they want quality over hurry. We assure them both.


Let's disect this shall we. Lets say they have 7 editors and they each are working on one book. Now they claim to make 35,000 corrections a day then that would break down to 5,000 corrections they make in each book for that day. Now, we all know you can not edit a whole book in a day, so lets say they edit 100 pages and each one fixes 5,000 mistakes? That is not very good of their aquistions department when they let work that is this bad go through. So, if the book is 300 pages then they fix 15,000 problems in that book? And yet they claim the books go through a strict process to get accpeted. Obvioulsy not.

Kevin

[KW]

So you deny the fact that your company was Erica Books prior to
changing
>>it's name to Publish America when complaints began rolling in.

Now they might have never changed their name, that is questionable, then why does one of the co-owners of PA have a book out by EricaHouse? His company? Ericahouse is in the same town and state PA is in, makes you wonder huh?


Those Who Win Are Those Who Think They Can.
by Meiners, Willem.

price: $8.26

Ships within 2 to 3 days

Binding: Soft Cover Publisher: Erica House, Frederick, MD, U.S.A

Plus, this bok by Meiners.




Lattu Daginn M Dag Skipta Mali
by Meiners, Willem

our price: $29.95

Ready to Ship


add to wishlist

Binding: Hardcover Publisher: Publishamerica Date Published: 10/2003 ISBN: 1413716911

This book is not intended for sale here since it isn't written in English. And what I also found interesting is that this book deals with the country Mali and is listed on the embassy page for that country. Another tid bit of info, Mali does not have extradition laws with the US. So if Meiners did get convicted of fraud he could skip to Mali with all of the money and never be seen again.

This may not be true, but it is food for thought.

Kevin

[KW]

That Mali book also comes in English.

Kevin

[Jarocal]

Fifteen a day isn't hard to swallow if you count their release to the "news outlet" on the internet. at releasing six books a day almost half of the 15 per day is completed just with their little write up on PRweb or whatever "news" site they have an arrangement to put their "press releases" out with.

15 mentions a day for all PA authors means that at:

8000 author's, a PA author can expect to be mentioned (with hard work on their part) once every 533 1/3 days.

5000 authors, a PA author can expect to be mentioned (again with hard work on their part) every 333 1/3 days.

The fact that those numbers are a statistical average also means that while some authors are able to find "more media mentions" of their book they are offsetting against other authors whose only media appearence will be whatever "news" website PA runs their "press release" through.

[CaoPaux]

Two reviews for the same book. One by an author, the other by Midwest Book Review.

www.publishamerica.com/cg...ws/384.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/reviews/384.htm)

[AnneMarble]

Now they claim to make 35,000 corrections a day then that would break down to 5,000 corrections they make in each book for that day. Now, we all know you can not edit a whole book in a day, so lets say they edit 100 pages and each one fixes 5,000 mistakes?

One, 50 misteaks a page. :rofl

I edit biochemistry articles. I have edited articles that were written by multiple authors located in different countries (such as Italy and France) where the authors 1) did not know what style the co-authors were using; 2) did not know Journal style; 3) kept forgetting what styles they had been using; and did not have a firm grasp on American English usage. Yet even in those cases, the articles usually average only a few changes per page. (To be fair, they do go through a true review process, but that process is concerned with science and accuracy, not grammar.)

[DeePower]

Second half of the letter to terminate Brian Hill's and
Dee Power's contact with PublishAMerica and their responses.

*********************************************
Our bullet point

The retail price you put on the book, $21.95 is at last 25%
above market price for trade paperback books, which was another
barrier for us to overcome in trying to market Overtime. We
told you several times that it would be impossible to sell the
book at any price above $19.95 but we were ignored.
*********************************

PublishAmerica’s response

- On price: Your question may be answered in this detailed
discussion of this issue, and the info below:

www.publishamerica.com/cg...n/6842.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/6842.htm)

Contrary to what you may have been told, bookstores will
generally carry a book that they think will sell, regardless
of price, whether it is returnable or not, and whether it is
printed on digital or offset presses. You may have found a
number of books that are less expensive than yours will be,
but we have found a large number of similar books that are
more expensive.

We know that our pricing is not deterring sales. We have
found that pricing is simply not nearly the significant issue
that some may think it is. Remember too, that we are just as
eager to sell books as you are, and would do things
differently if we thought it appropriate.

In the past two years we have sold more than a quarter of a
million books, which stands in contrast to any allegation
that our books are not competitively priced and/or supplied.

All of our books are so-called "trade paperbacks", with most
of them 6 inches by 9 inches in size. Trade paperbacks are
what you find in your local bookstore. There is another type
of book called "mass paperback". The size of these is
considerably smaller, their paper quality is much cheaper,
and they are mostly available in supermarkets and convenience
stores.

They are often priced in the $6 to $9 range, and are mostly
the books to which you are comparing yours. In our industry,
comparing trade paperbacks with mass paperbacks is like
comparing apples and oranges. The cheaper mass paperbacks
sell significantly less, statistically, than the more expensive
trade paperbacks. In fact, the rate of unsold copies that go
back to the publisher for destruction is three times higher
than the rate for the higher priced trade paperbacks.

#############################################
Rebuttal – not presented to PA – but may be of interest to
readers of this board.


The link below was deleted by PublishAmerica and no longer works
www.publishamerica.com/cg...n/6842.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/6842.htm)

In the first part of their response they say they are close to
selling their millionth book, here they say they have sold
250,000 copies in the last two years. That’s a huge
difference.

PA says: “Contrary to what you may have been told, bookstores
will generally carry a book that they think will sell,
regardless of price, whether it is returnable or not, and
whether it is printed on digital or offset presses.”

######################################

Rebuttal – not presented to PA – but may be of interest to
readers of this board.

The bookstores are the ones who told us they won’t carry a
book that’s overpriced or non returnable.

PA says: “You may have found a number of books that are less
expensive than yours will be, but we have found a large
number of similar books that are more expensive.”

Notice PA says “will be” the book under discussion has already
been published.

PA says: “All of our books are so-called "trade paperbacks",
with most of them 6 inches by 9 inches in size. Trade paperbacks
are what you find in your local bookstore. There is another type
of book called "mass paperback". The size of these is
considerably smaller, their paper quality is much cheaper,
and they are mostly available in supermarkets and convenience
stores.”

Obviously PA hasn’t been inside a bookstore lately. Mass market
books far outnumber trade paperbacks. And of course the paper
is cheaper the price is around $7.00 to $8.00. Trade paperback
is not the favored format for fiction, mass market is.

PA says: “They are often priced in the $6 to $9 range, and are
mostly the books to which you are comparing yours.

In our discussions with PA we specifically said trade paperback.

PA says: In our industry, comparing trade paperbacks with mass
paperbacks is like comparing apples and oranges. The cheaper mass
paperbacks sell significantly less, statistically, than the more
expensive trade paperbacks. In fact, the rate of unsold copies
that go back to the publisher for destruction is three times
higher than the rate for the higher priced trade paperbacks.”

I don’t know where they get the statistics that mass paperbacks
sell significantly less than trade paperback I can’t find it
anywhere. I believe it’s the opposite, there are quite a few
more mass market books printed than trade. I also have no idea
where the three times higher statement comes from. However it
may just be a factor that so many more titles are published in
mass market format
than trade.
##########################################

**********************************

Our bullet point
To be effective, a media/PR campaign for a book release must
begin at least 6 months before the book is available. We
repeatedly asked what the release date was, and were never
given a firm date.

PublishAmerica’s response

THEY NEVER ADDRESSED OUR POINT.

- Media/PR campaign:
As for marketing, virtually no day goes by without
PublishAmerica being in the news. Among the celebrities that
have recently been congratulating PublishAmerica an its
authors are First Lady Laura Bush and Second Lady
Lynne Cheney. An increasing number of our authors have
recently been or will soon be on national TV, including
celebrity actor Jamie Farr who will promote his new book
on the Hollywood Squares show next month.

########################
Rebuttal – not presented to PA – but may be of interest to
readers of this board.

Jamie Farr’s book has been out for over a year.
########################

A year or so ago, Writer's Digest did a detailed study of
a publishing contract that was almost identical to ours,
and gave it a clean bill of health. Our contract terms are
very much standard for the publishing industry.
PublishAmerica is operating under the watchful eyes of
highly credible industry authorities such as the National
Writers Union, an AFL/CIO affiliate who states that ours
"is not at all a bad contract", and Christian author
advocate Sally Stuart who recently told a writer, "you
should be OK working with this company." Such verdicts,
plus the sheer numbers of our results, speak for themselves.

#########################
Rebuttal – not presented to PA – but may be of interest to
readers of this board.

Publish America has a very nonstandard contract
##########################

PublishAmerica continues to grow faster than any other
traditional publisher, and today we are apparently the most
popular publisher among new authors. More than 50 new authors
contact us every day, hoping to join you as a PublishAmerica
author. That's more than 12,000 hopefuls per year. At
least 80 percent of them never make it to the "published
author" status, because they don't pass our acquisitions
process, but that does not seem to discourage anyone from
submitting their work to us in ever growing, and frankly
astonishing, numbers. We read every single submission before
we accept or refuse.

########################
Rebuttal – not presented to PA – but may be of interest to
readers of this board.

PublishAmerica is NOT a traditional publisher. And how do they
measure growth, it’s certainly not in total sales. It can only
be in number of titles.
#######################

Our operations are expanding. Last month we opened a third
office, we are hiring more staff, and we are sending out
an average 10-15 press releases about our new titles and
authors every day.

Many of our titles receive more marketing attention than
their counterparts published by the largest publishing houses.

###########################
Rebuttal – not presented to PA – but may be of interest to
readers of this board.

This is a lie. PublishAmerica only marketing effort is to send
out a shoddy looking flyer to a list of the author’s friends
and family. The flyer doesn’t even have the cover of the book
on it.

And notice they didn’t say they provide more marketing than
the largest houses but that many of their titles receive more
marketing attention. That attention is from the authors
themselves not by PublishAmerica.
##################################

Over 1000 PublishAmerica authors each year ask us to accept
their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th manuscripts. By any standard, this
is an amazingly high number of return authors, unseen in
the rest of the industry. Our marketing efforts are partially
responsible for this.

For celebrity endorsements and other media attention, see:

www.publishamerica.com/upinlights.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/upinlights.htm)

PublishAmerica sends marketing information for each title to
RR. Bowker's Books In Print, Ingram, Baker & Taylor, The
Brodart Company, Barnes & Noble.com, Barnes & Noble, and
Amazon.com. This marketing information is distributed to each
and every book retailer and library across the country,
and is typically made available to review editors of most
major newspapers and magazines.

#######################################
Rebuttal – not presented to PA – but may be of interest to
readers of this board.

This is not marketing information, it’s the book’s description
for Bowker’s books in print. PA phrases this to sound like they
send out press releases for their books to review editors.
They don’t. It also sounds like they distribute the “marketing
information” to book retailers and libraries. They don’t.
##########################

In addition, PublishAmerica creates and sends a direct mail
letter with book and news release marketing information, which
is sent to individuals and businesses across the US, including
magazines and newspapers. These efforts have helped to generate
hundreds and hundreds of feature articles and/or reviews about
our authors and their books, some of which are posted on our
web site.

###############################
Rebuttal – not presented to PA – but may be of interest to
readers of this board.

PA sends out one press release when the author signs the
contract to one newspaper in the author’s home city. Any
other promotional efforts are from the authors.
###############################

Also, PublishAmerica sends thousands of complete books,
gratis, for review to magazines, newspapers, television, and
radio programs

##################################
Rebuttal – not presented to PA – but may be of interest to
readers of this board.

PA sends out two, count them, two review copies, any other
copies are provided by the author.
##################################

PublishAmerica routinely attends industry events with book
copies, professional cover displays, company literature, and
real time book ordering opportunities from the web. We also
conduct workshops, lectures, and discussion groups at these
events.

####################################
Rebuttal – not presented to PA – but may be of interest to
readers of this board.

They do NOT attend BookExpo America. And if you look on the
website the last trade show they attended was in 2002. They
put on a PA authors convention twice a year.
################################

Also, PublishAmerica is growing internationally. Several
PublishAmerica titles are under contract by publishers as far
way as Korea and China. These works have been translated into
those languages and are for sale in those countries. Imagine
having two versions of your book on your coffee table:
English and Chinese!

As part of PublishAmerica's recent alliance with the British
branch of Ingram, in the United Kingdom, PublishAmerica's
books are now available from the best European distribution
channels; through all major European bookstores, to more
than 200 million European readers in the following
countries:

England, Spain, Scotland, Ireland, Norway
Germany, Holland, Finland, Denmark, Belgium,
Sweden

And finally, in the expansion department, we are happy to
announce the birth of two new daughter publishing companies
in Europe. PUBLISHBRITANNICA will serve new authors in
Britain, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland, while PUBLISHICELANDICA
will open its doors shortly for Icelandic authors, with
an eye towards possible further expansion into Scandinavia.
Later this year we are taking the majority of our staff, and
some of our authors, to Iceland to celebrate!

#######################################
Rebuttal – not presented to PA – but may be of interest to
readers of this board.

None of this promotes their books, all of it is to generate
new author inquiries. Traditional publishers have all the
submissions they can handle, when they advertise, they advertise
their titles.
#######################################

We promote each book to virtually every vendor from sea to
shining sea, and go to great lengths, and expense, to ensure
that everyone in the industry knows about it. Consequently,
your book is available through each and every bookstore in
the country, and all those bookstores have all pertinent
information at their fingertips.

##################################
Rebuttal – not presented to PA – but may be of interest to
readers of this board.

They don’t promote any of their books. The information the
bookstores have is in the computer databases of Ingram.
Bookstores, chains and independents order books through the
publisher’s catalog and through visits by the publisher’s
sales reps. PublishAmerica has no catalog and no sales reps.
The chains have buyers at the corporate headquarters
and they make the decision which books to order, the local
manager can order a book for a customer, but any other orders
have to be approved by the buyers.

Notice also how they say, “your book is available through each
and every bookstore in the country.” What they mean is your book
could be ordered in the bookstore, not that it is stocked. Some
bookstores won’t even order a PA book.
#####################################

We are also nominating our best books for awards, including
the Pulitzer prize, and we have negotiated a special promotion
deal with all Barnes & Noble bookstores. Barnes & Noble could
select your title to be added to their InPrint section,
virtually guaranteeing it 48-hour availability in all of their
stores.

###################################
Rebuttal – not presented to PA – but may be of interest to
readers of this board.

Pulitzer prize? That’s a joke. And notice how it’s Barnes and
Noble *could* select your title. No guarantees there virtual
or otherwise.
###################################

We have launched a showcase website for all of our authors,
called PublishedAuthors.net. It gives individual web pages to
each and every author, highlighting them and their books.
The content of these pages are edited by the author
individually, and password protected. Not only that,
but it will also gives every author their own e-mail address,
@publishedauthors.net. This innovative new service will be
free, of course, as you have come to expect from
PublishAmerica.

Thousands, each and every month, of PublishAmerica books are
sold in bookstores across the nation. Bookstores buy books
from us each and every day. Barnes and Noble has quadrupled
the number of books they order from PublishAmerica during
the past year, as can be seen by all the stories and
reports from authors whose books are stocked. The
PublishAmerica message board is overflowing with
testimonials from our authors about their books being
stocked in bookstores. Hundreds of bookstores across the
nation stock our books.

PublishAmerica is stronger than ever. Some time ago, we
partnered with Ingram, the world's largest book distributor,
and, separately, with Barnes & Noble, the nation's prime
bookstore chain. This means that your book will not only be
available through all American bookstores, but through
bookstores in a dozen European countries as well.

PublishAmerica is a traditional, advance and royalty paying
publisher, sharing printing facilities with Random House,
Simon and Schuster, McGraw-Hill, etc.

Over 1000 PublishAmerica authors each year ask us to accept
their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th manuscripts. By any standard, this
is an amazingly high number of return authors, unseen in
the rest of the industry.

#########################################
Rebuttal – not presented to PA – but may be of interest to
readers of this board.

This is just propaganda, half truths, and sleaze weasel words.
I was going to delete it but thought it might be of interest.
Also notice how a good 50% of their response to our demand to
terminate the contract was a canned format about how wonderful
PA is.
####################################

For those of you interested in the ongoing saga. Our attorney contacted them shortly after we received this letter. And we are not very patiently waiting for the battle to begin.

Oh – it’s not our nightmare – it’s PublishAmerica’s

Dee Power
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com (http://www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com)

[Sher2]

<Another tid bit of info, Mali does not have extradition laws with the US. So if Meiners did get convicted of fraud he could skip to Mali with all of the money and never be seen again.
This may not be true, but it is food for thought.>


I've forgotten more geography than I ever knew, so I'm not quite sure where Mali is. Interestingly enough, however, Google searches reveal that Meiners maintains residences in Amsterdam, Maryland, and Spain. There are reportedly PA offices in Amsterdam, Iceland, Great Britain, Maryland and, possibly, Spain. I also heard today that there "may" be another office in either Copenhagen or The Hague. This one, I haven't heard of; the others, I've seen addresses and phone numbers for.

[James D Macdonald]

A couple of items popped out at me, Dee, reading this part of your letter:

PA says:

<Blockquote>
They [mass-market paperbacks] are often priced in the $6 to $9 range, and are mostly the books to which you are comparing yours. In our industry, comparing trade paperbacks with mass paperbacks is like comparing apples and oranges. The cheaper mass paperbacks sell significantly less, statistically, than the more expensive trade paperbacks. In fact, the rate of unsold copies that go back to the publisher for destruction is three times higher than the rate for the higher priced trade paperbacks.
</blockquote>

What PA doesn't mention, is that one of the main differences between trade and mass-market paperbacks is that mass-market paperbacks are strippable, while trade paperbacks are whole-copy returnable.

That's why more mass-market paperbacks are destroyed than trade paperbacks -- it's a difference in what happens when they don't sell: destroyed vs. returned.

This is without getting into rack-size trade paperbacks, which are exactly the same size as your usual mass-market paperbacks, but are whole-copy returnable rather than strippable.

As to the three times higher -- I don't know. They've muddled terms so completely that I'm convinced they don't know what they're talking about. Perhaps it means that there are three times as many mass-market books as trade books on the shelves. They're attempting to use percents and ratios, rather than hard numbers, to disguise the fact that the hard numbers tell against them.

As to the prices: Per <a href="http://www.bookwire.com/bookwire/BookProductionGraphs.html" target="_new">Bowker</a>, the list (cover) price for the average trade paperback in 2002 (latest stats available) was $15.77. Presumably PA titles are included in that average. The average PA title goes for $19.95, a bit over four dollars higher.

PA says:

<Blockquote>
A year or so ago, Writer's Digest did a detailed study of
a publishing contract that was almost identical to ours,
and gave it a clean bill of health.</blockquote>

A contract that's "almost identical" isn't the same as "our contract." The detailed comments you've seen upstream on this thread about various clauses in the PA contract show that it most certainly doesn't get "a clean bill of health."

That's like saying "A group of veterinarians did a detailed study of an animal almost identical to your dog and gave it a clean bill of health." Well, great for that animal. How about my pet?

[James D Macdonald]

...each day an average 15 times a PublishAmerica author appears in the news media, in newspapers, magazines, radio or TV.

Sure, Dave, didn't you see Cops last night? The guy spread-eagled against the side of his car was a PA author....

[CaoPaux]

I almost feel sorry for this guy:

www.publishamerica.com/cg.../10399.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/10399.htm)

[lindylou45]

Isn't it amazing how alike all of PA's response lettes are? Do they think we're too stupid to be able to tell they are form letters. And if their authors are so happy, what need would one have for a form letter for disenchanted authors.

Every time I read something like this I have to shake my head and wonder how in the hell they think they can get away with this. Hopefully not for much longer.

I contacted the AG's Office today and was told it was better if each author filed a complaint in their home state as it is the top priority of any state's AG to handle the problems of their state's residents first. I'll be sending in my complaint form as soon as I get it and I'll be contacting the BBB as well.

[James D Macdonald]

<a href="http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessageRange?topicID=209.t opic&start=1181&stop=1200" target="_new">Paragraph 24</a> of the PA contract is so weird and out-of-place that I'm not certain we've found everything in it yet.

Let me combine it with the seven-year duration of the PA contract.

Now PA hasn't been in existence for seven years yet, so no one has gotten their books back through the simple expiration of the contract.

What I suspect PA's plan is, is this:

Somewhere during year six, PA will send a note to each author, saying words to the effect of "the public demand for the work is no longer sufficient to warrant its continued manufacture" and will then swing instantly into the 49-copies plan, wringing an extra thousand bucks out of all the authors on threat of losing their copyrights.

Rather than being just being something in place to keep authors from canceling their contracts prematurely, I think this "reversion" with author payments is a planned part of the lifecycle of every PA book, a nasty surprise waiting in the future for even the biggest PA supporters as their books reach a later part in their life cycle.

[HapiSofi]

Jim said:What I suspect PA's plan is, is this:

Somewhere during year six, PA will send a note to each author, saying words to the effect of "the public demand for the work is no longer sufficient to warrant its continued manufacture" and will then swing instantly into the 49-copies plan, wringing an extra thousand bucks out of all the authors on threat of losing their copyrights.

Rather than being just being something in place to keep authors from canceling their contracts prematurely, I think this "reversion" with author payments is a planned part of the lifecycle of every PA book, a nasty surprise waiting in the future for even the biggest PA supporters as their books reach a later part in their life cycle.Interesting thought!

By year six (if not sooner) Rabbit's Friends and Relations will have bought all the copies they're going to buy, and promotional opportunities requiring Rabbit to have a couple of dozen copies on hand will be a thing of the past. PA's got little to lose if they jettison both author and title. Few of their authors will have the sense to ask why a POD (which need not print unless they have book orders in hand) operating out of a townhouse (which can't have warehousing space for thousands of authors' books) should have 49 copies of a book for which there's insufficient public demand.

If you told writers that you won't print their book unless they give you a thousand dollars, they'd instantly know you for a vanity publisher. If you tell them you're a "traditional publisher" who'll publish their book for free, they'll believe you -- until, a few years down the road, you tell them that unless they pay you a thousand dollars, you'll keep their copyright.

A further thought:

The best time for a dissatisfied PublishAmerica author to ask for a reversion of rights is right after PA has failed to ship some desperately needed multiple-copy order. Under those circumstances, they can hardly claim that they have a bunch of extra copies lying around the townhouse.

[KW]

"So you deny the fact that your company was Erica Books prior to
changing
>>it's name to Publish America when complaints began rolling in.
>
>You lose credibility by using words like "deny." Listen carefully:
>
>PublishAmerica has never changed it's name.
>PublishAmerica has always been PublishAmerica from day one.
>PublishAmerica has never had any credible "complaints rolling in."


Kinda ran around the question didn't they? For people reading this and wondering who is right, read below. I copied a few things from another board of authors who have dealt with Erica/America/PA.


"I was brought in at the last part of 2000 and my initial contact was Erica House although my contact was AmErica House and my contract was PA..... seems a long stretch, to me. I have been caught into that changing web all along and have wondered about the different price breaks and why they existed at all. One of the reasons that I signed my contract with AmErica House (as I was under the impression that was who I was going with) was because I had seen a book in one of the bookstores here in Reno by Erica House and it was (like you say) of good quality and seemed to be just like all the other books there. And that was who I thought I was signing with, although AmErica House was my actual contact company I thought that it was just an offshot company from Erica House, the non-religious part of the company."

" AmErica House was not a pay for POD, it is/was PA, and they never charged any money. Originally it was the next company-being to follow Erica House Publishers and I think that they (Erica House) were at one point a pay to print POD, but I did not find that out when I looked them up nor before I signed my contract. Erica House primarily printed religious/motivational/spiritual books. The AmErica House imprint-company has since evolved into PA and when it was AmErica House, they had the same no-charge to the author as they do now, and the same business model and operandi. AmErica House books are in the same price ranges as PA, but not the same as Erica House, perhaps the difference is the times, since Erica House was started in 96-97, I think. It (PA) has just become more workable for them this last two years. "

"Erica House was a vanity publisher (thousands of dollars for publication).

Erica Feberwee, who I think is Willem Meiners' wife, ran Erica Books, a "literary agency" that steered writers to Erica House. When I first started scam tracking in 1998, Erica House/Erica Books were on a lot of "beware" lists."

These came from the mindsight forum. It just goes to show that PA lied, once again, in their response. I guess they could say that PA never changed it's, that wouldn't be a lie, but Erica house, America House did change their name to PA. As you can see in their response they said "PA" never changed its name, but yet they failed to say that PA evolved from these others.

A play on words, nothing more. PA is getting good at this, if they ever decided to write a book and find a REAL publisher they could probably do well. Hell, they had me believeing them for awhile.

Kevin Yarbrough

[priceless1]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Erica Feberwee, who I think is Willem Meiners' wife<hr></blockquote>

Meiners has a WIFE? Kevin, don't you remember meeting his girlfriend in Feb? Please, tell me he's at least divorced, okay?

[KW]

Yes Lynn, I remember. And I do believe, but don't quote me on this, that he is divorced. Maybe he let her go when he let Ericahouse go, who knows.

Maybe his girlfriend is one of the girls he used to have working for him since you know all those that work there are girls.

I just keep getting this picture of Meiners driving up in a 1966 Impala. The interior is covered in red, shag carpet and fuzzy dice hanging from the mirror. I can see him drinking out of a brown papr bag as he hits the switches and the cars starts blasting "Baby got back" as the car bounces. He parks up next to the townhouse, gets out, bends over and dusts off his wingtips. Smoothing his silk shirt he heads into the building singing "deep in the jeans she's wearing, I'm hooked and I can't stop staring.....uhmmmm, uhmmmmm....me love you long time. Wait a minute, wrong song."

Just another day in PimpAmerica...I mean PublishAmerica.

Kevin

[NancyMehl]

Lynn and Kevin,

What was Meiners girlfriend's name? Was it Lynn Comer - the infamous letter writer and hit woman??? Now THAT would be a team! LOL!

Nancy

[KW]

"have any of you had problems with barnes and noble amazon or bamm getting orders filled i find out there is almost a 4 week delay in people getting my book and due to such my sales drop to nothing are any of you having the same problem?
william mcullars
author
the sins of america"

It seems that these places can't get the book, but yet in paragraph 3 of the contract it states...

"The publisher agrees to cause all copies of said literary work to be printed as the market demands, and agrees, furthermore, to cause the copies so printed to be bound, from time to time, in sufficent quantities to supply purchasers of the said literary work therewith."

Now if these places can't get it for four weeks, and the guy can prove t here is a demand for it, can he not get them for breach of this clause?

Maybe I should call up and order two thousand copies and tell them I need it in a week. See what happens.

Kevin

[KW]

Just got this from AST.

"Dear author,

The New York Times contacted us this week to propose a partnership. We are now working with The New York Times to bring a new era of marketing services to our authors.

It appears that our authors are being taken very seriously by the New York Times. We expect to outline the details of this partnership with the host of the one and only NYT Best-seller List for you soon, but for now we are so excited that we just want to celebrate the event with you.

It looks like we're entering a new level of publishing distinction!"

I can't wait to see how this works out. Is it going to be another Bly fiasco or what?

Kevin

[DaveKuzminski]

The NYT is one outfit I'm not going to warn about PA. That way they'll be certain to sue when PA fails to uphold its part of any contracts.

[CaoPaux]

I'm betting the "contact" was NYT's reply to a request to buy advertising space. :b

Anyway...do we have this logospeak logged yet?
-----
shadowfax

7/23/2004
17:43:26
Subject: royalties and reports information

Message:
We have posted this email from Publish
America's helpful staff member, Jessica, in
case any writers here are wondering the
same thing we were...

"The sales report we send out is sent with the
royalty check. As per paragraph 12 of your
contract, royalty checks and statements are
issued in February and August. The February
statement will reflect sales from August
1 to January 31, and the August statement
reflects sales from February 1 to July 31.

You will not receive royalties on any
purchases that you make yourself, as
stated in paragraph 5 of your contract, unless
we are running a special that explicitly states
otherwise.

Also, the statements will only show sales from
that royalty period for which we have been
paid. Some retailers and distributors have a
grace period of 30, 60, or even 90 days. Any
sales not shown on one statement
should certainly be included on the next.

Royalties are calculated from the sold price of
the book, or the price that PublishAmerica is
paid. For example, if a customer buys your
book from our website for $16.95, you will
receive your percentage of that amount. If
Amazon purchases that same book from us at
a 40% discount off of the retail price ($11.97)
and sells that book for $19.95, you will receive
royalties from $11.97."


We wish to publicly thank Jessica, for
continually being such a great help!

Lillian & Dave
ISBN#141372581X
www.sunshinecable.com/~drumit
-----

[vstrauss]

Do y'all suppose it's the right New York Times? Maybe there's a New York Times in New York, Iowa (or someplace similar).

- Victoria

[Jarocal]

I thought it was the New Yankee Tribune

[FM St George]

from the horse's mouth:

"Royalties are calculated from the sold price of
the book, or the price that PublishAmerica is
paid. For example, if a customer buys your
book from our website for $16.95, you will
receive your percentage of that amount. If
Amazon purchases that same book from us at
a 40% discount off of the retail price ($11.97)
and sells that book for $19.95, you will receive
royalties from $11.97."

meaning, folks - you get 8% of $11.97 per book.

That's 95 CENTS a book.

and if they buy them off of the PA booksite?

8% of $16.95 = $2.11 per book. Of course, usually a book on the PA website is discounted from $19.95 down to $16.95 so that you feel you're getting a deal. Meanwhile, you're trying to flog books at $19.95 out of the back of your car. You've probably bought them at a 40% discount from PA in order to get the maximum discount which means that you've bought forty or so books for $15.96 each. Plus shipping, of course, since PA doesn't give that away for free. Gee, might as well just pay the $16.95 off the PA website and get royalties on that, since author purchases are invalid for royalty purposes.

So now you've got 40 books and spent $638.40 on. And if you sell each and every one of them at the $19.95 price (hard to do, since PA overprices them to start with) you'll recoup $160 profit. Phew. And that's going to have to pay for your bookmarks, gas, flyers, publicist...

and if a bookstore purchases ten or twenty? At less than a buck a book you ain't gonna be retiring anytime soon, folks. In fact, with those numbers you won't be retiring at all on your writing.

'nuff said.

[Sher2]

<I can't wait to see how this works out. Is it going to be another Bly fiasco or what?>

Good question, Kevin. I fail to see any possible way in which PA & the NYT could "partner."

The remainder of The Big Announcement e-mail read as follows:

Since this calls for celebration, and it's almost August, royalty
month, we've put together a special offer that includes royalties.

Authors who choose to buy copies of their own book will receive a
special discount, PLUS we will pay royalties on those books. Since
all royalty checks will go out by the end of next month, the rewards
will come in quickly. Our offer breaks down as follows:

50-100 copies: 40 pct discount + royalties
101-150 copies: 45 pct discount +royalties
151-200 copies: 50 pct discount + royalties
201 or more copies: 55 pct discount + royalties

Full-color children's books are excluded. The offer expires July 30.
Please call us at 301-695-1707.


IMO, it's nothing in the world but (another) sales pitch.

[priceless1]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Lynn and Kevin,

What was Meiners girlfriend's name? Was it Lynn Comer - the infamous letter writer and hit woman??? Now THAT would be a team! LOL!<hr></blockquote>
No, Nancy, Lynn is married, but to someone else. She's a no-nonsense young woman who doesn't take guff from anyone. I don't mean that in a bad way. She looks like she's 12 (Lynn Comer) but she's actually in her 30's and really tore the young ones around.

No, Meiner's girlfriend was the same nationality as he.

[priceless1]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I fail to see any possible way in which PA & the NYT could "partner."<hr></blockquote>
I'm with you on this one. How does a publisher contract a partnership with a newspaper? I mean, our little company is fortunate to be meeting with Sam Tannenhaus, the new Book Review Editor at the NYT in August, but I'm hanged if I understand how or why a newspaper would contract anything with a publisher. Makes no sense. My 'ignernce' must be showing...best go have it hemmed. <img border=0 src="http://www.absolutewrite.com/images/EmoteShrug.gif" />

[DaveKuzminski]

To do an expose on themselves for the NYT? ;)

[XThe NavigatorX]

I'm betting the "contact" was NYT's reply to a request to buy advertising space.

I'm willing to put a fiver on the table that it does have something to do with advertising. NYT has a very aggressive marketing team who do a whole lot of prospecting. PA makes a lot of money. It was inevitable they'd meet. NYT is also one of the most, if not the most, expensive newspapers in the world to advertise in.

I suspect the catch will be something like "Sell 700 books and we'll put a picture of your book in our 1/4 page ad."

[Jarocal]

I would say the partnership is more along the lines of PA getting a cut out of filling a weekly or montly page in the paper where PA sells it's authors what amounts to advertising space in the NYT, NYT considers it a full page ad, and the paper and PA both make money off of author's trying to get the word out about their book and being willing to spend their money for what the publisher should be doing.

[DaveKuzminski]

As if that will ever happen more than once. If PA operates true to form, they'll do it once for one author and then use that as a carrot for all the other authors who will then struggle to make those sales only to have the bar raised as soon as any approach it.

I noticed in the PA letter excerpt that someone posted that PA is claiming now that they'll give royalties on discounted sales to authors. Obviously, the refusal by many authors to purchase their own books is having an effect.

[KW]

As I knew would happen, the stepford authors are all thinking now that PA is going to get them reviewed by the NYT Bestsellers list. The little blurb about the NYT being the host to the NYT BSL got them. It was good wording on PA's part. Now what will happen? All the authors will tell their friends this and they will rush to PA with their books. We will not hear anything for awhile and after an influx of new writers PA will come out and say....

"The partnership is going to be an ad for new writers to come to PA."

or

"The partnership will be an ad for people to read our new release page."

This, alone, would be enough to cover their asses for not promoting our books. It won't help with old authors, but will keep their butts out of trouble with the newbies.

Kevin

[DaveKuzminski]

Sadly, I can foresee this turning into something worse. It's not beyond reason that a newspaper might agree to do a review in exchange for a publisher taking out an ad.

On the bright side, someone at PA will have to read the books first in order to find one that won't embarrass them in a review so that they can obtain a fresh influx of writers as a result. Of course, they'll have to create a new letter template to email to their authors that explains why some of them have not been selected for reviewing.

Do any of ya think that HB even stands a chance of being selected? ;)

[Ed Williams 3]

...HB hold the door at the entrance of the Times for the potential PA book reviewer to enter the building. Imagine if they actually reviewed HB and he didn't like the review - he'd probably call the editor and challenge him/her to fight, or duel with swords or something. Wouldn't that build PA's reputation in the literary world?

Seems to me the PAvidians should be careful about getting all excited about this New York Times thing. A few weeks ago they were all hyped up over a well known, nationally published author coming into their midsts, and we all see how that worked out. Personally, I'd bet a dime to a thousand bucks that this "partnership" will benefit PA, but wanna bet on how much it's gonna benefit their authors?

[KW]

If, and I mean IF, it just happens to be a partnership for reviews PA will probably make it like their IB imprint. "If you sale 600 books then we will send your book to the NYT for a review, but your story has to be about a person overcoming incredible odds." Or somethig along that line. This way PA could be selective in who they send in for reviews.

I don't see anything good coming out of this for PA's authors. Only PA itself. This is just a push to make their authors think they are doing something for them. After all, when did PA do anything for its authors? Publishing the book wasn't one, in the end they get the most money.

Kevin

[Sher2]

<If, and I mean IF, it just happens to be a partnership for reviews PA will probably make it like their IB imprint. "If you sale 600 books then we will send your book to the NYT for a review, but your story has to be about a person overcoming incredible odds." Or somethig along that line. This way PA could be selective in who they send in for reviews. >


I have my doubts whether this so-called partnership has any benefit to PA's writers at all. It's possible it's something along the lines of what you described above, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that all it is, is some kind of advertising advantageous to PA. Certainly, there's nothing in the (online) NYT Books section yet. There is, however, an ad for "poetryamerica.com." I've never heard of it, and their site doesn't give any information about who or where they are. Anybody ever heard of it?

[Betty W01]

Here's what their web site says about them:

Who we are:

The American Poets Society has one mission...to discover extra-ordinary poetic talent in ordinary people. We are here to give ordinary people like you the opportunity to have their poems published. Not all who write poetry can be published or attain recognition through the general media. In the United States of America we believe in the freedom of speech. At the American Poets Society, we too believe that everyone has the right to freedom of speech; that everyone deserves the chance to have their poem considered for publication. If your poem is published, you have the same chance of attaining the same recognition that the famous writers achieve. APS gives you this opportunity. Who knows, you may even be good enough to join our poetry society. All you need is the confidence in yourself and..a poem.

Our Future Plans:

We are proud to say that we have recieved more than 75,000 poems since we started 2 1/2 years ago! We are working right now on redesigning our web site to make it a portal for amatuer poets all around the world. In addition to our free online amatuer poetry contests, we currently provide many inspiring and enjoyable poems for your reading pleasure. We will be posting more and more as time goes on.

Resources:

Check out our poetry tips page for an extensive list of ideas to get your mind into gear for writing great poetry.

We are working hard to bring you links to many other poetry resources, so stay tuned...

Our Sponsors:

Please patronize our sponsors. They wil be a major part of helping us grow and continue to provide you with the greatest anthologies and poetry resources that are available. Thank you.


© 2004 American Poets Society


-----------------------------------

I don't know about you, but I get bad vibes from this. For one thing, they REQUIRE a valid mailing address in order to tell you by US mail you won... an online contest?? Huh??? (Only open to US suckers - err, poets, by the way.)

What are the chances that they really want your address so that they can mail you stuff? Like a notice that your poem was SO WONDERFUL that they want to publish it in a book that you can (surprise!) order a copy of, at ___________?

And their web site encourages you to partronize their sponsors - which I could find no trace of. Not one.

And I read several of the poems they say won their "poem of the day" contest, as well as other random ones they have posted as great examples oof what they think is good poetry. Ummmm. They were pretty bad. I'm no prize-winner in poetry, granted, although I have been published a few times, but I've read hundreds of poems by acknowledged poets like Frost, Wordsworth, Arnold Adoff, Nikki Grimes, and James Wendell Johnson, and these - aren't even close. By about a million years.

Sadly, it smells to me like yet another incarnation of the famous poetry scam that has fooled and embarassed so many people over the years.

[FM St George]

just a fyi - they offered the same promotion last year where if you purchased a lot of your own books, you would receive royalties on that purchase.

:P

so it's not exactly a sign of them going belly-up...

double :P

[Sher2]

<I don't know about you, but I get bad vibes from this. For one thing, they REQUIRE a valid mailing address in order to tell you by US mail you won... an online contest?? Huh??? (Only open to US suckers - err, poets, by the way.)>


Yes, and I noted that they provided NO information about how to contact THEM.

I saw no "sponsors" to patronize, either.

[Sher2]

<just a fyi - they offered the same promotion last year where if you purchased a lot of your own books, you would receive royalties on that purchase.>


And the drones are eating it up like it was the Gospel. All the talk about taking the windfall royalty checks and investing in more copies of their own books is just sickening to me. I mean, for heaven's sake, do you see Sue Grafton or Harlan Coben or Dennis Lehane running around robbing Peter to pay Paul in order to finance buying THEIR OWN books?!

[DaveKuzminski]

Ah, thanks, FM, for that information about a previous discount with royalties. I didn't know about that one. Then again, I've never been on their mailing list. Well, that is, not that kind of mailing list.

[FM St George]

well, I'm off theirs since I didn't receive the Grand Offer.

sob, sob.

however, I DO think that some of us are getting through to the masses - the PA announcement thread about NYT is seeded with plenty of skeptical posts from people demanding more information as well as being somewhat dubious about attaching this "sale" to the bottom of it.

slowly but surely folks... the truth shall set you free.

:)

[CaoPaux]

I noticed that too, FM, and the skepticism is not just from the usual sources. Which of course begs the question as to when it will reach critical mass and the logo will reply and/or pull the posts.…

[vstrauss]

But by and large the NYT discussion is an amazing lesson in the power of desire. How else would you interpret "working with The New York Times to bring a new era of marketing services to our authors" to mean "PA has persuaded the NY Times to review its books"? It's sad, really.

I wonder how many of these folks have ever seen the NYT Book Review.

- Victoria

[CaoPaux]

Speaking of which: www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/5115.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/5115.htm)
-----
Rita

7/24/2004
16:57:00
Subject: How Books Make it to the NY Times bestsellers list

Message:

Here is an interesting article online at MidWest Book Review. The article is how books make it to the NY Times bestsellers list, written by Dan Poynter of Para Publishing. It is really an eye-opener.

www.midwestbookreview.com...stlist.htm (http://www.midwestbookreview.com/bookbiz/advice/bestlist.htm)

Rita
-----
marti2003

7/24/2004
18:43:14

Message:

Great article! Thanks. I guess that lets us out then since our books are not in bookstore chains. Oh well.
-----
Joyce Ann

7/24/2004
19:00:38
Message:

I don't think PA would sign anything that would not
benefit them and their authors. Bottom line--they're in a
business to make money. We need to hear from them
just what this means, and we don't know this yet.

Maybe it will benefit us; maybe some policies will
change, e.g. the return policy, etc. I don't think this is
the end--just the beginning.

I can't help but think they are well aware of our
problems in getting our books into bookstores.

Just my opinion.

Joyce Ann
thelisteningtree.net (http://thelisteningtree.net)
-----
Heh.

[DaveKuzminski]

Well, when details are lacking or vague, the best thing to do is write a letter to one of those involved.

Yes, that's exactly what I did.

Gee, there's no icon for a smiley sticking his tongue out for Willem to see.

[Gwen4]

My 'ignernce' must be showing...best go have it hemmed

Exactly! I mean really. Do they think they are dealing with idiots? Although some days I do feel like one for jumping on the PA wagon and signing up to take that fated ride. All I can say about the NYT partnership is "HOO-EY"

It'll never be as it is written!!! What a game they have going, huh? I feel so sorry for those eager, hungry authors on the PA board who buy the slop they send out by e-mail. They know they are playing with emotions and that's why they continue to suck people in.

Grr...now, I'm mad

:grr

[lindylou45]

Now PA is saying they have a book by New York Times best selling author Jim Razzi, but when I try to find the book in the PA bookstore there is no such book or author.

Another Bly ploy, or what? Does anybody know anything about this? I'd really like to know why he would sign with PA after publishing over 90 books with traditional publishers. :ha

[Sher2]

<I feel so sorry for those eager, hungry authors on the PA board who buy the slop they send out by e-mail. They know they are playing with emotions and that's why they continue to suck people in.>


Some of them seem to think that PA and NYT are actually MERGING, or that NYT is buying into PA. Either way, they think they're going to get reviewed in the NYT. The "voices of reason" on the PA boards, such as they are, get set upon by a lynch mob when they question the "partnership" and/or point out the sales pitch at the bottom of the e-mail. Pathetic.

[HapiSofi]

They should pray daily that they won't get reviewed by the NYTimes, since only novelty or notoriety could make that happen. Neither would be pleasant.

[DaveKuzminski]

Here's a new one that I spotted on the PA board. I can only hope that the author in that one example where permission was granted by the publisher is okay with that if the author still retains copyright:

Joan DeMarle-Obe



7/25/2004
18:50:55
Subject: Permission for using another person's material


Message:
Can anyone tell me how you go about getting permission to use another person's material, like a poem in your book?

Joan

elliott

7/25/2004
21:57:40
RE: Permission for using another person's material


Message:
I assume you are speaking of reprinting the work in its entirity. For that you would have to contact the owner of the print rights of the piece. Usually it is the author but sometimes its their individual publisher or in the case of a deceased author; the agent representing their estate.

georgie girl

7/26/2004
02:17:07
RE: Permission for using another person's material


Message:
Hi,
I am in the process of getting reprint
authorization for my book. Start by contacting
the Library Of Congress. You need to give
them the authors name, title of book, year
printed, and the name of publishing house.
They charge $75.00 an hour for the search
and then will send you the info on who holds
the rights. If the book you are looking to reprint
was printed after 1975 you can go to the
Library of Congress site and search it
yourself. I hope this helps.

Georgie Girl

Joan DeMarle-Obe

7/26/2004
08:40:29


RE: Permission for using another person's material


Message:
Thanks, I don't think i'm going to go the $75 dollar route just to use a poem in a book. I'll try Elliot's idea first. Any other thoughts?

Joan

Joyce Ann

7/26/2004
08:56:57


RE: Permission for using another person's material


Message:
I contacted a publisher to obtain rights for reprinting a
portion of a writer's book. I received a letter stating I
would have to pay $100. and follow 16 other
instructions, as well as give a certain percentage of the
profit on the book if the amount of material reprinted
was over 10%.

Obviously, this reprint is not in my book.

On the other hand, I reprinted a passage from another
writer without any charge by contacting the publisher.

Hi Joan!

Joyce Ann

[HapiSofi]

Dave, I can't keep track of the players without a program. Are any of the respondents PA people? Otherwise it's just the internet's ten godzillionth instance of the blind leading the lame, of which it can be truly said that at least 1.668 godzillion of those instances concerned copyright law.

If PA's responsible for handing out any of that bad advice -- well, no surprise there, either. I mean, PA thinks you can't apply for CIP data for a book before you've received notice of registration of copyright. That's really, really dumb. Or possibly it's canny; pretending that they believe it keeps them from having to explain to their authors why they aren't eligible for the CIP program (http://cip.loc.gov/eligibility.html):"Only U.S. publishers who publish titles that are most likely to be widely acquired by U.S. libraries are eligible to participate in the CIP program. Book vendors, distributors, printers, production houses and other intermediaries are ineligible. Self-publishers (i.e. authors and editors who pay for or subsidize publication of their own works) and publishers who have published the works of fewer than three different authors are ineligible."Pity about those library sales.

[DaveKuzminski]

I wish I knew. However, that's all that was shown. The writers just didn't state who was contacted, though it's my best guess that the authors and publishers they contacted for permission were outside of PA.

[DaveKuzminski]

Interestingly enough, I received another complaint from a PA author tonight and just happened to realize that the number of different individuals who have complained is just slightly greater than one percent of the "8,000 happy writers" that PA is always claiming. Now, if these complaints represent only those who have been published so far, which it appears to be, then the percentage is even greater, possibly twice as much. What really gets me is that no other publisher still in business has achieved as high a percentage of complaints and many have far fewer authors so it would be easier for them to accomplish much higher percentages with only a few individuals complaining.

[James D Macdonald]

It's Line By Line time again....

<HR>

<BLOCKQUOTE>
Dear author,
</blockquote>

Two words in a row with no problems, other than that they don't like their authors enough to call them "dear" ...

<BLOCKQUOTE>

The New York Times contacted us this week to propose a partnership.</blockquote>

One wonders exactly what they mean by "partnership," and if that was the word that the Times used. One also wonders exactly which office at the Times contacted them ... the Times has an aggressive staff selling advertising in their pages.

<BLOCKQUOTE>
We are now working with The New York Times to bring a new era of marketing services to our authors.
</blockquote>

Yep, it's advertising. I wonder if the deal is: PA guarantees an ad every week, and sells those ads at the by-the-year rate to their authors, rather than the single-insertion rate that the authors could get on their own. With, of course, a small cut for PA. Bets on that this will be a "The Author Pays" deal? Of course it is.

<BLOCKQUOTE>
It appears that our authors are being taken very seriously by the New York Times.</blockquote>

Or at least their checkbooks are.

<BLOCKQUOTE>
We expect to outline the details of this partnership with the host of the one and only NYT Best-seller List for you soon, but for now we are so excited that we just want to celebrate the event with you.</blockquote>

True, the Times does host the NYT Best-seller List. That doesn't mean your book will be reviewed, or listed as a best seller. For starters, to be reviewed, a copy will have to go to the Times significantly before the book is published. Second, to be on the best seller list, the book has to be ... a best seller. Buying an ad for your book in the Times isn't going to get either of those things.

<BLOCKQUOTE>
It looks like we're entering a new level of publishing distinction!</blockquote>

A meaningless sentence.

<BLOCKQUOTE>
Since this calls for celebration, and it's almost August, royalty month, we've put together a special offer that includes royalties.</blockquote>

Here comes the hook, the Vanity Press part of this letter, and its real purpose: Get the authors to buy their own books by the case.

<BLOCKQUOTE>
Authors who choose to buy copies of their own book will receive a special discount, PLUS we will pay royalties on those books. Since all royalty checks will go out by the end of next month, the rewards will come in quickly. Our offer breaks down as follows:</blockquote>

Let's figure this based on a typical 180 page, $19.95 PA book. (My Brother's Keeper to be precise.) I'm assuming that PA will go offset for these books, given the numbers.

<BLOCKQUOTE>
50-100 copies: 40 pct discount royalties
</blockquote>

100 copies, the author pays $11.97 per book, or $1,197.00, and gets $95.76 in royalties, for a total out-of-pocket of $1,101.24. PA pays $7.29 per book, for a total of $729.00. PA's profit: $372.24.

<BLOCKQUOTE>
101-150 copies: 45 pct discount royalties
</blockquote>

150 copies: Author pays $10.97 per book, $1645.88 total, minus $131.67 royalties, author is out-of-pocket $1,514.21.

<BLOCKQUOTE>
151-200 copies: 50 pct discount royalties
</blockquote>

200 copies: Author pays $9.98 per book, $1,995 total. Royalties come to $159.60, for an out-of-pocket expense of $1,835.40 (not counting shipping).

<BLOCKQUOTE>
201 or more copies: 55 pct discount royalties
</blockquote>

Let's say the author buys 500 copies (and gets "considered" for Independence Books, hurrah!).

Author pays $8.98 per book, for a total of $4,488.75. Royalties come to $359.10, for a total out-of-pocket expense of $4,129.65. PA pays $5.08 per copy, for a total of $ 2,540.00, and a profit of $1,589.65. Not bad for accepting one phone call.

Notice that as the per-book price goes down that the author's per-book royalty goes down with it.

Notice too that the author could have gotten the same prices that PA got from a short-run printer by going to that printer herself, and have gotten books that she could offer to bookstores at the discounts they expect, take returns, and not have the PublishAmerica albatross hung around her neck.

<BLOCKQUOTE>
Full-color children's books are excluded.
</blockquote>

Their favorite short-run printer won't give 'em the same price breaks for internal color.

<BLOCKQUOTE>
The offer expires July 30. Please call us at 301-695-1707.
</blockquote>

High-pressure tactics. Hurry, hurry, hurry! Offer expires soon! Operators are standing by!

<BLOCKQUOTE>
Thank you.
</blockquote>

And thank you, PublishAmerica, for another amusing morning.

[Gwen4]

What I don't get is why I got a copy of the email sent to me. I haven't even sent them back the AQ or final ms. So, how in the world would I ever be able to buy books by July 31?

And the costs you mentioned didn't include shipping.

[James D Macdonald]

Check me if I'm wrong on this, but the shipping costs are $3.00 for the first book, plus $0.50 for each subsequent copy in the same order.

So ... looking at that 200 copy order (just for an example), the shipping costs would be $102.50. The royalties on that order are $159.60. After you subtract shipping, the effective royalty is $0.29 per book.

<HR>

Traditional royalties are figured on the cover price, not "net," not "sales price." Traditional publishers pay shipping.

Figuring the real, honest royalty rate on that ($0.29 on a $19.95 book) -- it's a 1.5% royalty. That's horrible.

[FM St George]

yep - I did that math last year when I got this notice and realised the numbers SUCKED royally.

and yet there will be plenty who will jump at the offer and put off such payments like their mortgage because they think they'll be able to sell them all at the retail price and garner a big profit.

:P

[James D Macdonald]

Let's say that PA has 5,000 happy authors. Let's say that 10% of them buy 100 copies each of their own books. That's an instant cash infusion of $186,120 into PA's coffers, for no addtional work beyond manning the telephone and taking credit card orders from those happy authors. The authors are paying printing, the authors are paying shipping -- that darn-near $200K is pure gravy, and it came straight out of the happy authors' pockets.

<HR>

Thought: They say it's almost August, royalty month. Is it possible that the reason they need this cash infusion right now is to be able to cover royalties? The day they can't cut checks to their authors, no matter how pitiable the amounts, the gaff is blown.

[maestrowork]

Boy, I think I'm in the wrong business. Who wants to write books when you can make so much more money by "helping" others publish their life's work?

If only I didn't have a conscience...

[DeePower]

Every once in awhile, PA will pay royalties and will pay the shipping on author purchases.

It is curious that the special offer comes right before PA has to pay royalties.

Dee

[Sher2]

<Thought: They say it's almost August, royalty month. Is it possible that the reason they need this cash infusion right now is to be able to cover royalties? The day they can't cut checks to their authors, no matter how pitiable the amounts, the gaff is blown.>


And therein, in my opinion, lies the crux of it.

[Ed Williams 3]

...is that PA is strapped for cash, and needs some $$$ fast...

[FM St George]

where did you hear this?

[NancyMehl]

This "sales opportunity" happens before almost every royalty period. Yes, I think it's a way to get in money. It takes a lot of cash to pay 8,000 authors $1.29!!!!

Nancy
nancymehlbooks.com

[DaveKuzminski]

Yes, I'd really hate to see them lose their townhouse and have to set up their computers in some dark alley. They might scare the thugs away. ;)

[Ed Williams 3]

...this isn't just them needing to pay royalties, they are hurting for cash badly...can't say anymore, but watch events transpire...

[James D Macdonald]

All the usual disclaimers about how I'm not a lawyer ... but if a company goes bankrupt all its assets are frozen, then go to the secured creditors.

Your rights are assets. The authors aren't secured creditors.

The time to get your rights back is before the publisher goes bankrupt.

[lucyishome]

I am also hoping to get out of PA contract. Stupid me what was I thinking. Now my eyeballs feel like they will fall out of my head after reading all of these posts. I did send PA an email to Author Support telling them I want no part of this deal and the reasons why. We will have to see if they will respond. My book has not even been edited yet so I am keeping my fingers crossed. I will give them hell and not be intimidated. If they push me I will have my attorney handle it but hope it does not have to come to that. Or maybe if there is enough of us we can file a class action suit against them. Anyway I do appreciate everyones honesty hear and although I found this a little late I figure now is better than never.
Anne

[Sher2]

<I did send PA an email to Author Support telling them I want no part of this deal and the reasons why. We will have to see if they will respond.>

Uh-oh! Yep, they'll respond -- you're quite likely to get the "don't take that tone with us" e-mail. Don't let it intimidate you.

[lucyishome]

Thanks for the posts. So have you had anymore luck with them?

Anne

[Sher2]

<So have you had anymore luck with them?>

:jump Not I. I haven't even gotten to "proofs" stage yet and, let me tell you, I'm praying they've "lost my paperwork."

P.S. -- Check your in-box.

[lucyishome]

My book has not been edited and no $1 yet so maybe we could both be lucky and have our stuff lost. Did you ever get confirmation of when they got your AQ and all? I never did. I checked my IN Box but nothing was there am I missing something? I will keep you posted on the PA situation and hope you will keep me posted on your situation as well. Thanks.

[Sher2]

<My book has not been edited and no $1 yet so maybe we could both be lucky and have our stuff lost. Did you ever get confirmation of when they got your AQ and all? I never did. I checked my IN Box but nothing was there am I missing something? I will keep you posted on the PA situation and hope you will keep me posted on your situation as well. Thanks.>


I can't remember whether I received confirmation of receipt of the AQ or not. I know I haven't received any communications -- other than sales pitches -- since April, though. I will be thoroughly delighted if I've fallen through the cracks. LOL.

About the in-box thing -- I sent you a private message via this board. If you don't see in-box at the top of this page, go to your log-in page and look for it there. Lord help me, I just today saw a message that had been waiting for me since the 14th. Call me embarrassed.

[DeePower]

And it seems that the person at the NYT was unaware about any 'partnership' with PublishAmerica and was going to have their legal dept look into it.

Curiouser and curiouser.

Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com (http://www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com)

[Sher2]

<And it seems that the person at the NYT was unaware about any 'partnership' with PublishAmerica and was going to have their legal dept look into it.
Curiouser and curiouser.>

I saw that and am crossing my fingers that this blows up in their faces. Of course, "The Faithful" will find some way to defend it; e.g., mean old NYT reneged on their promise to poor, pitiful PA who was only trying to do right by their authors. Sheesh.

[DaveKuzminski]

I happened across some messages from authors in the UK. Guess what? PA pays them $2.00 US as an advance.

[Sher2]

<I happened across some messages from authors in the UK. Guess what? PA pays them $2.00 US as an advance.>

I've been robbed!

[KW]

I wondered about that. Since they had to ship it over seas, I thought that the UK authors would owe PA five dollars for the cost to ship it there.

Kevin

[DaveKuzminski]

Sher2, can you email me with any particulars concerning who emailed the NYT and who responded from the NYT about not knowing anything about the alleged partnership?

[HapiSofi]

Lucy, I'm absolutely not a lawyer; but in your place I'd send PA a brief note saying "We are not in agreement, and have no contract. Please don't send me that dollar, or your contact to sign. I don't want the one, and won't sign the other." Then proceed as though your book were subject to no one's claims but your own. Fighting that would take more resources than PA wants to devote to a single title.

[lucyishome]

I appreciate your response. Unfortunately I did sign the contract. I just have not gotten a dollar or proofs as of yet. I did send one email to them 3 days ago but have not yet heard back. I am trying to determine whether I should send another that looks and sounds a little more professional. Also wow shuld be interesting to hear about the NYT deal. Hee Hee.

Anne

[lucyishome]

Yes definately curious. This could get interesting.

[Jarocal]

They nay or may not be "strapped" for cash. If they are hurting badly it is from gross mismanagement on the part of Meiners. He has a slick gold mine set up, a large volume (of author's) low overhead business model. As I've stated before the way he has the arrangements in the busness made, everything is manageable for him via the net with the need only for maybe a maximum of two people in the "headquarters" to note the names of clients sending snail mail and faxes (making sure no court supeonas are mixed in). They then just send their rude little email as to how all business will be communicated electronically and monitor the BOards they know about like this one and P&E while spell check does it's thing. Convert the document to Adobe pagemaker and ship it to LS along with the Template based cover proof after the "Editing Phase" of the job is done with the author. The highest bill he will have is the lease on the Topwnhuse and I am sure that an investigation will show that the town House is used for more than just the Office to PA. I would not be surprised to find a Loft or studio apartment at the top that is either a "perk" for a PA employee who has a large interst in the company or Mr. Meiners sublets it out for the bulk of what the costs him.

Every aspect of the business can be done via the Net. The only thing that would require him to actually have that space seperate would be to keep his home out of any legal problems that the business would run into and away from creditors if the business does go under. If he actually owns a server (which may be posiible given the "published author's.net" he may actually have to pay for a techy to be onsite to keep not only his sites, but others that he would undoubtedly be renting server space to running. If done correctly, he could have form a cooperative group with other business in the area wantig to maintain a strong web presence and be sharing the cost of a tech with other companies. A closet and a t1 connection is all the townhouse needs for that.

I would suspect that the company is not in actual financial trouble, but that these incentives at a time hen the comapny has the most going out in expenses maintains the spending level for the principals in the company at a constant level. $8,000 authors getting a $5 royalty check is only $80,000. Pa need only sell 4000 books a month to cover the royalies. With their number of new releases that is only ten books per title. Offer the "discount" and it goes to 5334 or around 14 books per title.

These authors are buying anywhere from 40-200+ copies and giving PA a cash flow infusion that more than handles the necessary royalties without interrupting the normal trickle of sales that makes PA lot's of money. The really ironic part is that it is the Authors who are paying their own royalties to themselves. If the Authors did not "take advantage" of the offer PA would still most likely have the funds to cover the expenses, but the principles in the company would have to curb their spending habits.

According to PA's numbers of 250,000 over two years, they average around ten thousand books sold a month. One months sales would cover the royalties due authors for the entire year. The price of manufacturing the books will be a monthly cost of around the same figure as the royalties for a six month period. $8 a book and $10,000 books a month is $80,000. They don't have to pay money in advance like a normal publisher and the credit card service can autmatically wire the funds to LS with each transaction.

So a twenty (say 15 if bought in bulk by the author) dollar book minus the $5-7 paid to LS on the spot leaves them betwen 8-15 dollars per book in a liquid cash asset to handle other miniscule expenses.

Template covers that the cover designer is either a principle in the company or someone from a temp agency getting 10 bucks an hour to crank out two covers an hour using the template provided by LS and a $20 cd that has thousands of Public Domain images on it categorized for easy reference.
If they are really lucky, the person already has a cover designed and in the correct format. If not they have to spend 5 minutes resizing the file to fit the LS template. I suck at photoshop, have a dial up conection, and I still could crank out two PA quality book covers an hour. I would want more than $5 a cover that $10 an hour working for a temp agency comes out to.

The really nice part is that if the person doing the covers actually does it from the "Headquarters", Meiners can make them check the mail and respond to easy e-mails as "Author support" so he can spend more time on the golf course.

Say the lease, temp agency person, Web service, and all come to $15 thousand a month. That's an average of $95,000 a month expenses for $150-200K gross income ten moneth out of the year. In the two months that the royalty is paid out, the cost rises to $175 against the $150-200k income. At worst he is going to have to keep a little over 2500 dollars of the profit from other ten months to pay for the 25k possible shortfall. And that is only a possible shortfall with the numbers allowing for him to make 25k in the months when his expenses are higher. If there are ten principles in the business splitting the profit equally, they each are earning a yearly Salary of 52,500 a year for cruising message boards and stifling the negative publicity that's only a couple hours per day per person. If you bring the numbe of principle in the busnes down to a more reasonable number for the scam, say four, they each are projected to earn a minimum of $131,250 a year for playing on a message board. Note also that Reliable English speaking "Customer Support" would be available in a country such as India at what would be considered next to nothing in the US, They could actually have cheap labor supplying the majority of the "Easy" questions/complaints and Mr. Meiners the Other Principles only become involved when the first couple replies of form responses does not work. This would take their actual time spent working on issues down to a couple per week by having certain email addresses "flagged" for them to work on only, or rerouted automatically to a different address that the Customer Service firm does not handle.

Dave, Victoria, or Ann would be able to better guess how many people are actually running the scam as they are more familiar with the original scam before it's refinement when it was known as Erica House.

Like I said in the opening of my post, the only way they could be strapped for cash is if they are seriously mismanaging their funds, or maybe one of the scammers is skimming some form his/her colleagues.

[vstrauss]

>>Dave, Victoria, or Ann would be able to better guess how many people are actually running the scam as they are more familiar with the original scam before it's refinement when it was known as Erica House.<<

I'd guess as few as possible.

One thing I've been noticing (there was a thread on it recently on the PA message board) is that the production timespans are increasing--there are people who signed contracts in November and still haven't been assigned a PA "editor". So maybe they're trying to manage the increasing load of authors with the same staff, to maximize profit. It's like I said earlier--scammers go down when they get greedy.

- Victoria

[DaveKuzminski]

I think the 250k books is for four years, not two. Try using that as a basis for your calculations. It could shed a much different light on everything.

Once a writer puts out for 50 to 100 books, most don't make another large purchase because they're then stuck with those until they can make the money back. If they borrowed to finance their purchase, even their profit is going toward interest, so it's unlikely that some can ever afford a second major purchase. As well, many will learn from that experience that it's a losing proposition. So far, only a very few have claimed making more than one such purchase. Still, I think that just a few such purchases at each discount sale serves to provide the company with much needed funds.

I think it would be safer to assume that there would be a certain amount of sales each month based upon how many new books came out. That should be the number used for determining the company's monthly income. Very likely, once a book has been published, it sells for only a brief period before the majority of authors wise up and quit pushing it. They comprise the great majority who do not post on the PA forum or elsewhere.

As far as I know, there are three principals running the company.

[Ed Williams 3]

www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/5162.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/5162.htm)

[Sher2]

<This is so sad, and speaks for itself....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/5162.htm>

My Lord, they're deluding themselves right into Bankruptcy Court.

[DaveKuzminski]

Even worse for some is the fact that being published and becoming a success was their last chance to evade going into bankruptcy. This will surely shove some of them there if they follow the poor advice given them by those other authors.

[Jarocal]

Dave,

I disticntly remeber reading/seeing something from PA that they have sold 250k books in two years. If it is false, that would be a good leverage to get out of the contract for authors. Standing in a court of law and saying yes to 250k copies when you haven't paid taxes on that many (because you haven't sold that many) is bad idea, and standing in court and telling a judge you deliberately lied to a person as an inducment to get them to sign a contract is a thing the justice system will frown on.

I think your number of three principles is probably the true number. That would have allowed them the ability to start without help and when the load got large enough use a dirt cheap temp agency to handle trifling stuff.

Three principles at 250k books in four years still works out to just under 146k a year on the bottom end of the scale. The upper end of what they would have made is around 312k per person. Even at the bottom end it would still prove a lucrative scam. All those numbers go off of the ones PA puts on it's site.

If you go by 3000 book in/were in print and the 50 book average giving PA a $8 a book profit, the three principles still make 100k each a year profit. That is without incorporating any investmentsthey may be making and assuming they are keeping all the assets liquid as possible in case a situation arises where they may have to skip to Mali or someplace.

[lindylou45]

PA changes the number of books they have printed in almost every "don't take that tone with us" email they send. When I indicated in my response that the number of books each author would sell if they actually did have 8,000 authors would be around 35, I was told they had misspoke and they were actually "close" to printing their one millionth book.

If PA doesn't even know how many books they've printed how is anyone else supposed to know? :head

[astonwest]

misspoke == copied and pasted from the wrong list of stock answers

:hat
Big Daddy West

[lastr]

www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/general/1467.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/general/1467.htm)

I'm not sure what the comparison between PA and Microsoft but at least it is clear who he equates Bill Gates to - and it's not Dave *grin*.

[James D Macdonald]

On the PA <A HREF="http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/5172.htm" target="_new">message board</A> we read:

<Blockquote>When the clerk [at BAM] entered my book information in her computer, she received a message that stated that she could order the book, but that it had to be mailed to a home address--that the book would not be allowed in the store. She could not explain why.</blockquote>

Can anyone help? Well, let me try to explain for that poor clerk: Here's the deal. BAM (like other chain booksellers) noticed that PA authors were coming into their stores and ordering their own books, using assumed names, then failing to come by to pick up the books when they arrived. (This tactic was even recommended by various folks on the PA boards -- one goombah reported that he'd hit every Barnes&Noble in the state of Connecticut.) That left the stores with non-returnable, overpriced, unsalable stock on their shelves. The chain bookstores took steps to limit the damage.

Let's look at another post in the same thread, and do a little math on it:

<Blockquote>Check your titles at Books A Million and Powells books. ... They have bumped our book prices up significantly above the retail price. This is outrageous. PA tells me this is completely legal for them to do. ...


My books are three dollars more than the retail price at BAM, and five dollars more than retail at Powells. ...
</BLOCKQUOTE>

So why is this?

I has to do with PA's short discount through distributors.

Take your typical $19.95 PA title. If a bookstore orders through Ingram, they only get a 20% discount. That book costs the bookstore $15.96. Normal books from traditional publishers, through distributors, have discounts that start at 40%. To make the same profit on that PA book that the bookstore would make on a book with the same list price from a real publisher, the bookstore would have to charge $26.60. So PA's authors should get down on their knees and thank Ghod that Powell's and BAM have only boosted the prices on PA titles by three to five dollars above the already-outrageous $19.95.

But really -- PA authors shouldn't complain, should they? I thought InfoCenter spent half its time explaining that Price Doesn't Matter.

[lucyishome]

This is from the PA message board. I copied it to here. Maybe this individual will wake up and see the light soon.



Message:
Not wanting to sit on my hands humming a monotonous tune, I e-mailed the mystery editor of a large local paper to enquire about the proper way to get them to review my book. A few days later, she e-mailed me back stating that my publisher needed to notify them first, and then her boss would maybe give her the book to read. I'm thinking "Okay, that sounds proper." So I forward this e-mail to PA just to give them a heads-up on the proper procedure, and I get a message back telling me that the newspaper has to request a copy of the book from PA first. So...does that mean I have to ask the paper to ask the publisher? If so, will somebody please be prepared to pick me up off of the sidewalk after they give me the bum's rush? What am I missing here?

Steve Harrison
Undeserved Trust

feral

7/31/2004
22:15:58


RE: Does this sound crazy?


Message:
Wow! You actually got a reviewer of a large local paper to e-mail you back? I never even got a response from the Indy Star after 6 emails and a couple letters. I even sent them the damn book, "Getting in the Game" and still got no response. It sounds like a lot of BUCK passing is going on with you. Which goes back to the theory unless your famous or INFAMOUS, no one cares to look at your work. Good luck, though, and don't give up!

feralgame.tripod.com

daknut

8/01/2004
03:25:02


RE: Does this sound crazy?


Message:
The reply I got from my one 'contact' at a US newspaper emailed me back saying that PublishAmerica were a recognised POD company and that they don't read them.

Lee

[AnneMarble]

At the bottom of the PublishAmerica home page, has anyone else noticed the links such as "How to Get Published" and so forth?

Out of curiosity, I clicked one of them, and this is what came up:

www.publishamerica.com/fi...publisher/ (http://www.publishamerica.com/fiction-publisher/)

Wow, that's really professional. :blackeye

[Sher2]

<Out of curiosity, I clicked one of them, and this is what came up:
www.publishamerica.com/fi...publisher/
Wow, that's really professional.>


What the heck?! How many people keep a Latin primer lying around? I was having a hard enough time deciphering the eccentric spelling of some of the PA writers; this is ridiculous.

[DaveKuzminski]

Gee, HB is amazingly correct in his first statement. His words are about as effective as him bashing Bill Gates and the Microsoft Corporation.

However, HB states, "The site is owned by a person who wants freelance writers to join their union. PA threatens their elitist persona and makes them far less believable when they spout the lack of union jobs due to a tough market. There's a lot more to it than that of course, but you get the skinny.

It's all part of a multi-website scam. Blow it off."

Amazing! I didn't know I belonged to any union. Not only that, but I have an elitist persona. Simply amazing! HB is so insightful. Plus, he states there's more. Oh, I hope HB will reveal that in his next post. I want my autobiography to be complete and accurate and there's oh so much that I don't know about myself that must have happened while I was asleep.

Just please don't tell me that HB is strictly a fiction writer. You know they are notorious liars, that bunch.

[vstrauss]

Dave, I think ol' HB still thinks you're sponsored by SFWA. I remember some early attacks on P&E that made a big issue of this, and how evil and rotten the SFWA "union" was for not letting PA publication count toward membership.

- Victoria

[DaveKuzminski]

Now I wonder who could be feeding him that misinformation?

[aka eraser]

What the heck?! How many people keep a Latin primer lying around? I was having a hard enough time deciphering the eccentric spelling of some of the PA writers; this is ridiculous.

I took Latin for five years and it's admittedly very rusty. Most of that post seems to be in Latin but some words aren't. Maybe a mix of Latin and Klingon?

[HapiSofi]

Lindy, Dave --

It would be useful to collect an archive of letters various writers have received from PA. What isn't said in any one letter may be revealed by variations in their standard letters.

At the moment I'm most interested in seeing variants of their "don't take that tone with us" letters. I believe that PA -- or, more specifically, W. Meiers -- deliberately uses emotional abuse as one of his standard business practices. The letters I've seen so far are practically a glossary of verbal abuse.

The ploy of (1.) using some version of "how dare you take that tone with me," (2.) in combination with a harsh and aggressive manner of speaking, (3.) while claiming that all the power rests with the speaker ... and his patience is wearing thin, = is a characteristic gambit of professional bullies. It's a favorite with rogue security personnel. I first spotted it many years ago when I heard it being used by a collections agent making one call after another.

I have yet to see any single letter to PA that would justify the language Meiers uses in his replies. Still, individual cases are arguable. But when he uses the same language in every case, it's deliberate abuse.

Here’s a perfect W. Meiers sentence: "You are under a wide variety of misconceptions, and we will expect your apology."

Here's my preliminary list of Meiers’ basic tropes:

1. Blame: Things are never cast as We disagree; it’s always You’re wrong. Or: You’re culpably wrong. Speaking of which …

2. Guilt: This is all your fault. You have failed to understand. You are stupid. You have a flawed personality. Your book is a flop. Your hopes and dreams were ridiculously unrealistic. Speaking of which …

3. Shame and isolation: You are alone. No one else sees things the way you do. No one else complains. PA’s contracts and business practices are unimpeachable. Everyone else is happy and successful. You’re just acting out. Your concerns are laughable. You’re making a spectacle of yourself. No one will help you. Speaking of which …

4, Powerlessness: We have all the power. We will use it arbitrarily. You have no recourse. We will not listen to you. Your requests are denied.

Here’s another perfect example of Meiers’ techniques:”If you have valid or coherent concerns at all, we would be happy to reconsider our decision, but for now your request is denied, and your contracts remain fully in force.

Your attorney's arguments will probably not be considered by us. Your request is denied. We will agree to revisit your request six months from now. Please contact us again at that time. Also, please consider this our final word on this issue.”It's slick, but there's nothing professional about that couple of paragraphs. It’s intended to do exactly one thing, which is make the author feel so crushed that they shut up and stop asking questions.

We only hear from the PA authors who’re resilient enough to keep talking about it. We’ll never know how many slide into silence and depression after receiving one of Meiers’ letters. Some of them could undoubtedly have been good writers, but I’m uncomfortable with that view of it, because none of them, good or bad, deserve the kind of emotional damage Meiers so casually dishes out.

[James D Macdonald]

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet.... is a standard hash text used for placement. You see that identical text in advertisement dummies, for example. It means "block of text of about this size will go here when we write it." It's deliberate nonsense.

[alphabeter]

See ma, keeping my latin books was for a purpose greater than feeding the bookworms!
:nerd

Translation of PA obscurium:

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consetetur sadipscing elitr, sed diam nonumy eirmod tempor invidunt ut labore et dolore magna aliquyam erat, sed diam voluptua. At vero eos et accusam et justo duo dolores et ea rebum. Stet clita kasd gubergren, no sea takimata sanctus est Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consetetur sadipscing elitr, sed diam nonumy eirmod tempor invidunt ut labore et dolore magna aliquyam erat, sed diam voluptua.

Oy vey. Even in Latin, PA's editing skills show. The literal translation of these words is:

Lor itself I am chopped into shaped may be it may love, the consetetur the sadipscing the elitr, but the daylit nonumy the eirmod the tempor the invidunt that by the effort and by the pain the large aliquya was, but the daylit voluptua. But truly them and the accusa and to the two justice the pains and she creep. It may stand drive the kasd the gubergren, I swim the sea the takimata has been confirmed Lor itself I am chopped into shaped may be it may love. Lor itself I am chopped into shaped it may be it may love, the consetetur the sadipscing the elitr, but the daylit nonumy the eirmod the tempor the invidunt that by the effort and by the pain the large aliquya was, but the daylit voluptua.

Which of course, makes no sense. Accidentally, I'm sure. :grin

Here is an free website translation:

Lorem itself pain he is amet consetetur sadipscing elitr , but diam ninth eirmod transitory envious when to sink and pain magna some was , but diam luxurious. But in truth these and to accuse and equity two pain and this rebum. To stand clita kasd gubergren , to swim sea takimata holy is Lorem itself pain he is amet. Lorem itself pain he is amet consetetur sadipscing elitr , but diam ninth eirmod transitory envious when to sink and pain magna some was , but diam luxurious.

Ouch. :smack

Shall we have a contest as to what PA was attempting to say? Let us play a game this Sunday--Latin: the PA Way!
:rofl

Alpha

[DaveKuzminski]

HapiSofi, yes, it would be a good idea to collect those letters. However, I have never been a PA writer, so I don't have direct access to any of those. I have to rely upon others to provide me with copies of correspondence that PA sends to its writers. Sometimes all I receive is cut and paste paragraphs from those embedded in the writer's email to me. Otherwise, I think I only have just one of those in full.

Still, if anyone wishes to provide me with full copies of PA's retorts to their writers, I'll gladly accept those copies for the P&E archives.

[AnneMarble]

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet.... is a standard hash text used for placement. You see that identical text in advertisement dummies, for example. It means "block of text of about this size will go here when we write it."

That's what's called Greeking, right? I always thought it was ironic that they call it Greeking when it looks like fake Latin. Then again, Latining is too hard to say.

Certainly not something I'd like to have on my company's web page, though. Like having a link that goes to a page that says "This page does not exist" -- only it looks sillier. If you're not going to bother putting up those pages, don't link to them. If they're under construction, do the "Under Construction" thingie. (Still not professional, but better than Greeking.)

It's deliberate nonsense.

As opposed to their usual accidental nonsense. ;)

[DaveKuzminski]

Truly, it appears that PA is going for the record books in as many categories as possible. Most authors published in five years, most non-edited books; most mistakes on their own web sites... ;)

[Ed Williams 3]

This was posted on a current PA thread....


"HB," keep posting as we are encouraged by your wealth of knowledge of what is happening in the literary world."


HB wouldn't know what's going on in the literary world if it crawled up his legs and....I'll shut up, as the mental imagery is just too grotesque...

[Ed Williams 3]

www.publishamerica.com/cg.../10451.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/10451.htm)

[James D Macdonald]

Did you grab a copy of that for yourself, Ed? That thread is going to be gone in the morning, as soon as InfoCenter gets done reading this board.

<HR>

Meanwhile, Dave, did you see this?

<Blockquote>EZ

8/01/2004
21:40:20

RE: prededitors website...wow!


Message:
I do battle with Dave Kusminski(spelling?) constantly. I have yet to decipher why he is so venomous towards PA. I made my own decision to go with PA against the "advice" of so-called authors on these sites, and havent had any cause to regret doing so so far.</blockquote>

Ol' EZ's real name is Bruce L. Robinson, author of <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1413728359/ref=nosim/madhousemanor" target="_new">The Battle Between</A>, in case you don't recognize him. He's still in his honeymoon period -- he just got his two $14.50 author's copies on the 12th of July. We'll see if he's found cause to regret his decision by Christmas of this year.

<HR>

Hapi, as long as you're collecting PA letters to authors, make sure you get a bunch of the "your comments are comedy" letters. Classics!

[DaveKuzminski]

We're discussing PA and Mr. Robinson's credentials currently. He claims to be a former(?) paralegal in California. You can find our discussion on the WN in the Other Ways Into Print section in the PublishAmerica topic. Feel free to join in if you want.

Gee, just went to PA forum to check it out. They have two topics on P&E. One on one board and another by the same title on another. The PA bosses must have told some of them to get the troops' morale back up. Evidently, they must see a need to discredit P&E as much and as soon as possible. Seems to me it would be easier to just produce good books and deal with bookstores fairly by having a returns policy.

[HapiSofi]

Alphabeter, the lorem ipsum text is a mildly pied passage from Cicero's de Finibus Bonorum et Malorum, which begins "Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit. ..." ("There is no one who loves pain itself, who seeks after it and wants to have it, simply because it is pain.") It's been used as the printing industry's standard dummy text since the 1500s.

[reph]

. . . and that's why "lorem ipsum" will get you a whumptillion hits on Google.

[James D Macdonald]

Seems to me it would be easier to just produce good books and deal with bookstores fairly by having a returns policy.

Nah, making good books and selling them to the public is hard. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it. What's easy is getting authors to buy cases of their own books at extortionate prices.

Let's look at that lady who has 150 copies of her book in boxes in her living room, the one who's suffering from Marketing Burnout, whose husband is wondering what's up.

Let's say that she bought those under one of PA's regular author-purchase plans (30% discount, no "royalties"). That's $13.965 per book or $2,094.75 for the lot. Add in shipping, $77.50, and she's got a $2,172.25 charge on her credit card, and no way to sell them without spending even more time and money. No wonder her husband is asking questions!

[DaveKuzminski]

You're right. It's only easier if you're trying to stay out of prison and other trouble.

[FM St George]

I am enjoying all the PAvidians posting how they should just cut the prices of their books, offer a return policy to the bookstores and take a beating.

if I recall, HB and Co. were bleating in another thread that your book is WORTH whatever PA put on it for a price, darn it! The public just doesn't recognize good writing, ya fools!

*falls off chair laughing*

but the usual newbies will lap it up and max out their credit cards - one can only hope that the hubby of said woman above will take away her cards before she finds another "great deal" from PA...

:P

[bluwinteryfox]

Wonderful info center at it again. At least Dennis wasn't told, like another PAer was that they needed to update their browser. And letting support know! Ha ha. Maybe in a month they'll get to it.
Monique


DennisB
8/02/2004
10:19:04
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Subject: PA Search & Sales Pages not working


Message:
Hey PA Info Center,

Is is just me or is there a major problem over the past several days with the PA (book) search and the browsing screens? I keep getting this respons from the PA servers:

ADODB.Recordset error '800a0e7d'

The connection cannot be used to perform this operation. It is either closed or invalid in this context.

/shopping/shop$db.asp, line 923



We can't sell 'em if no one can get to them!

Any info on this 4 day old problem?

infocenter
Administrator
8/02/2004
10:26:06
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp RE: PA Search & Sales Pages not working

Message:
Thank you for the info, but please report such problems to support@publishamerica.com.

We see no such problem at all. We've had our usual amount of orders over the past four days, with no problems reported.

[lindylou45]

We see no such problem at all. We've had our usual amount of orders over the past four days, with no problems reported.

They see no problems because they throw any complaints away. How many people on this board have been told by "author support" that any further correspondence by them will be discarded?

[James D Macdonald]

<blockquote> We've had our usual amount of orders over the past four days....</blockquote>

In other words, "damn-near zero."

(They meant "number of" rather than "amount of," but then English isn't PA's first language....)

[FM St George]

reality check in aisle three!

**************
www.publishamerica.com/cg...s/1848.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/newauthors/1848.htm)

Roze



8/02/2004
12:47:48
Subject: Sad Sad Roze.....


Message:
I don't think I belong here among you authors, Barnes and Noble proved that for me with a refusal letter to shelf my book in their stores. In the letter they said.

"The book does not meet the competition currently available for sale in this category. If the book is on the shelf next to other books with similar subject matter, it will not meet the quality of those books in either content or presentation.

Ok, now tell me, where did we go wrong? Is it my writing skills, or is it the PA publishing skills? They just killed me with this letter. I feel like I'm nothing, all that time I sat down and wrote about my life, my precious sad life and Barnes and Noble thinks, it was not well worth it. I am doomed, very unhappy, and I think they took my self confidence away from me, something that PA had given me by accepting to publish my book.

I need coffee or maybe whiskey? I don’t even drink………….I am so sad. I don’t think I can ever type another story again in my life………………I am done…………bye all.


Roze........
Roze Dawson
www.rozedawson.com
RozeDawson@aol.com
ISBN 1-4137-2392-6
"Yesteryears, The Pain Left Unhealed"



SherryMoore

8/02/2004
13:18:59
RE: Sad Sad Roze.....


Message:
ROZE: Please, please, please do not let Barnes and Noble get to you like this. It is one person writing that letter and there is an enire world out there. Everyone has different views on what is good and bad and not everyone is going to like your style or my style, but obviously Publish America saw what Barnes and Noble didn't. Besides, how can your writing be bad if it came from you????? That alone makes it INCREDIBLE! Please don't be down!

Thinking of you!!!!!!!!!

Sherry

website: www.publishedauthors.net/sherrymoore
email: sherrymoore@publishedauthors.net

whitewolfzty

8/02/2004
13:22:42
RE: Sad Sad Roze.....


Message:
Roze,
Don't give up, Don't give up, Don't give up. B&N aren't the only ones to sell books. Have you tried Borders, or Hastings?
Try everything you can before you give up.
I believe that if PA thought your book was worth publishing it will be worth reading.
I haven't even seen the proofs of mine yet and I worry about not being read but I won't quit, no matter how many rejections I get.
If you write it they will read... (a take off from Field of Dreams, but then, everyone knew that)
Oh, have I said Don't give up?
KenC.

SDSchaffer1

8/02/2004
13:48:07
RE: Sad Sad Roze.....


Message:
Roze,

Like the others have said above, don't give up! Please don't give up! Refusals like this are part and parcel of being an author. The biggest, most recognizable names in the business, have been refused many a time by both publishers and by bookstores. Like PA says -- and they say it with good reason -- the name of game is Persistence. Keep trying! Just because one chain of stores refuses to sell your book, doesn't mean another one won't.

Like I said on another post, to another author, once you do become a big name and a big seller, Barnes & Noble will be kicking themselves all the way to the grave for having refused your work.

So please, Roze, don't give up! Keep working at it. You'll prove them all wrong, Roze. But you've got to keep going!


Please don't give up, Roze!


Sean D. Schaffer
'Wyverinia Chronicles'
ISBN: 1-4137-2354-3
www.freewebs.com/sdschaffer/ (http://www.freewebs.com/sdschaffer/)

Email: SirTerramaarDraconis1@comcast.net


chellesy

8/02/2004
14:01:34


RE: Sad Sad Roze.....


Message:

Oh Roze, how disappointing it must be. Please don't let that get you down and force you to give up. There are other bookstores you can sell in and many different ways you can market your book. If PA published you they must have seen something special in your writing.

Don't let this one incident cause you to stop doing something that you love. Adversity will always present itself, you've just got to overcome it. Learn and grow from the experience and prove them wrong. Now, won't they be sorry when you are selling your book in all the other bookstores and they're missing out??

Like Ken, I will continue to write no matter how many rejections I get.

Roze, I got so many rejections from so-called agents for the book PA is publishing that it's just sad. I began wondering about my writing skills and whether they were up to the task. I thought about just throwing my hands up. But then I realized that most the agents were not reading it because they were turned off by the genre/subject or not accepting new names. I didn't let that stop me because I knew that I had something worth fighting for. I'm a damn good writer and I dare anyone to tell me otherwise! :)

You've got to grow a tough skin in this business. Not everyone is going to like what you've written and some will even have the balls to tell you to your face. You just have to shrug it off, try a little harder and keep your eye on the prize.

I'm stepping off my soapbox now. :) If you need to talk, feel free to email me. You can find the email on my homepage.

Sorry this post is so long! Seems I had a lot to say today! Could be the pot of coffee I just drank. Heh heh.

Best wishes,
Michelle

www.michelleclay.bravehost.com

Roze

8/02/2004
14:15:57


RE: Sad Sad Roze.....


Message:
Dear Sherry
Dear Ken
Dear Sean
Dear Michelle,
Oh, you guys are great, you made me see the light. I never realized that if one refused there is always others.However, My dream was to shelf my book at Barnes and Noble.But,when I was refused I got sad and lost self confidence (at least for a day)"wink".
I'm keeping positive outlook at this, again, thank you so much for taking your time and replying.



Roze........
Roze Dawson
www.rozedawson.com
RozeDawson@aol.com
ISBN 1-4137-2392-6
"Yesteryears, The Pain Left Unhealed"




whitewolfzty

8/02/2004
15:04:35
RE: Sad Sad Roze.....


Message:
Roze,
When you get someone else to shelf your book, you can go back to the *#$@ B&N people and rub it in their respective noses. Sometimes it takes that to wake them up. They may rethink their decision and allow your dream to come true. Best of luck to you and I hope it sells millions. It would be nice to know another top selling Author (as there are many on this board), it's nice to know you anyway.
A fellow hopeful,
KenC.
************

sweetie, it's your PUBLISHER!

Here's your sign...

:P

[lindylou45]

It would be nice to know another top selling Author (as there are many on this board),

There are? Who??? :(

[Nameless65]

sweetie, it's your PUBLISHER!
This isn’t necessarily true is it? Let’s be honest, most of the authors that resort to PA would never be accepted by a regular publisher due to the quality of the work. I don’t know what B&N meant by “presentation” (I assume the jacket cover was lacking) but I’m guessing that “content” referred to the quality of the writing.

Is it just me or is there a tangible amount of derision aimed at these PA authors from this board? I know that I was the guy arguing for personal responsibility on the part of the PA authors but it doesn’t mean that I don’t sympathize with them. These people are trying to make the best of a very, very bad deal. Even if the majority of them seem deluded – don’t they deserve some sympathy?

[XThe NavigatorX]

Yeouch. That letter is harsh! Does anyone know if this is this a standard letter... or did they soup it up especially for her?

[FM St George]

I sympathise with this woman TOTALLY - she's now got the idea that B&N rejected HER book on the content - when it's much more likely that it's because of the PublishAmerica label and the no-return policy that did her in.

she's taking it as a personal rejection and PA won't stand up and tell her the truth - that there are NO PA books on B&N shelves due to their policies. It's got nothing to do with the content or the writing; it's the no-return policy. Period.

but she believed the hype on the front page about seeing her book on the shelves of "brick and mortar" stores... and now she's doubting herself when it's her choice of publisher that did her in with B&N, not necessarily her writing skill.

[XThe NavigatorX]

*Not that I'm saying the kid gloves should be put on, and it's fairly straight-forward and honest, I'm sure. Maybe I'm reading too much into the tone, but there seems to be a pretty strong subtext in those few sentences from BN. Something like: "People! Stop sending these to us! We're sick and tired of it, and the moment we see who publishes it, it's getting tossed! ARRRRRGGGGGGGG!"

[Nameless65]

I sympathise with this woman TOTALLY - she's now got the idea that B&N rejected HER book on the content - when it's much more likely that it's because of the PublishAmerica label and the no-return policy that did her in.I don’t know if I buy that. What you’re basically saying then is that the writer of the letter chose “lack of content/presentation” when he could have said “PA’s return policy”. If so, what a heartless bastard!

Besides, I wonder what B&N would do if PA were to have a hit (they may one day) like the Celestine Prophecy or if a bestselling author like King, Clancy, or Atwood (not that they ever would) signs with them. My money says that they’d overlook that return policy.

[Sher2]

<*Not that I'm saying the kid gloves should be put on, and it's fairly straight-forward and honest, I'm sure. Maybe I'm reading too much into the tone, but there seems to be a pretty strong subtext in those few sentences from BN. Something like: "People! Stop sending these to us! We're sick and tired of it, and the moment we see who publishes it, it's getting tossed! ARRRRRGGGGGGGG!">


I haven't read those peoples' books and am certainly in no position to pass judgment on them. Based on so many of the posts I see from the PA boards, however, one does have to wonder whether it's not an equal mix of inept writing and PA's policies that have caused booksellers to develop these attitudes.

[DeePower]

I have seen that letter posted on the PA boards a number of times. It was not directed at her personally.
I also believe that BN looks at who the publisher is and just says no.

Dee

[DeePower]

The latest news from PA The convention is $799 and does not include airfare. Oh, and originally there was supposed to be an "executive" from Barnes and Noble as a guest speaker. Guess he or she bailed.

Dear author,

We still have a few spots available on our 4-day Hemingway Convention in Key West, Florida, Sept 10-13. It's only six weeks away, and it promises to be yet another grand author get-together.

If you feel like being among fellow PublishAmerica authors, meeting members of the PublishAmerica staff, and exchanging experiences in a balmy and sunny setting, this is the event to go to.

Join your peers as we

-- stay in the tropical deluxe rooms of the Doubletree Grand Key Resort
-- have dinner in Ernest Hemingway's home and museum
-- check out the world's largest living coral reef on a sunset glass bottom boat tour
-- visit Harry Truman's little White House
-- make a Conch Train tour of Key West
-- have lunch with PublishAmerica's top management
-- enjoy the amazing sight of tropical butterflies as they land on your shoulder
-- discuss bookstore availability issues with a very special expert guest, who is in charge of supplying Barnes and Noble, Borders, Waldenbooks, and other major bookstores.

For all Convention details see www.publishamerica.com/hemingway/ (http://www.publishamerica.com/hemingway/)

Phone reservations only at 301 695 1707. You must be quick as there is only a limited number of spots available. This offer expires August 15, or earlier as remaining spots are taken.

We are looking forward to seeing you in Florida!


***********************************

Dee

[Sher2]

<For all Convention details see www.publishamerica.com/hemingway/
Phone reservations only at 301 695 1707. You must be quick as there is only a limited number of spots available. This offer expires August 15, or earlier as remaining spots are taken.
We are looking forward to seeing you in Florida!>



Publishers, editors, promoters, travel agents -- I think they're happy to make a buck any way they can. Wonder if they'll have armed guards in Florida?

[FM St George]

wow... and here I was thinking that I'd be able to get my book reviewed now that they're PA's "partners"...

under the "Reviews" board, so no one will probably see it...

**********
www.publishamerica.com/cg...ws/396.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/reviews/396.htm)

kathyn



8/02/2004
18:31:50
Subject: Turned down by NYTimes


Message:
Well I thought I would give it a shot and sent a query letter to the Book Review editor. The next day he wrote me back and said they do not review vanity or pod publications. Here is the response:

"Thank you for your letter. The Book Review covers general-interest
books that are published in the United States and that can be found
in most bookstores. We do not review textbooks, books published by
vanity presses or only online, self-published books, books published
on demand, guidebooks, self-help books, reference books, fantasy
novels, westerns, or historical romances. Coverage of cookbooks and
gardening books is limited to roundups twice a year." --Bob Harris

**************
gee... don't get much plainer than that, does it?

[CaoPaux]

Heh. Most PA books would be disqualified under several of those categories....

[vstrauss]

Fantasy novels!!!

Sigh. Reduced to the level of a book printed on demand.

- Victoria

[DaveKuzminski]

Well, maybe PA didn't want to pay for enough guards to protect the B&N rep from the PA authors. ;)

[lindylou45]

I wonder what would happen if their little convention was picketed. Hmm... :grr

[James D Macdonald]

Dee's right -- that's the standard boilerplate rejection letter from B&N for people who are trying to get their self-published books stocked in stores. It has a checklist of possible reasons for the book to be rejected, one or more of which might apply.

[alphabeter]

Thanks Hapi and reph. :thumbs

Whats cute is I used Google to find an online translator instead of just letting Google give me the answer.
Silly author, trying to look up and find things instead of letting the computer do it for me! :smack

Does this mean PA copied something and used it without understanding so as to confuse their authors and/or website surfers? :eek :lol

Alpha

[James D Macdonald]

Does this mean PA copied something and used it without understanding so as to confuse their authors and/or website surfers?

No, it means their web designer gave them the page with a place for them to put their own text, only they didn't put in their own text yet.

[DaveKuzminski]

HB Marcus



8/03/2004
10:48:09
Subject: Am I missing something here?


Message:
I see we have a new private board, but I see no way to get on the freakin' thing. It's a cool idea that should fly better than the old chat room they used to have: "Ooo, chat room. Let's check it out. Gosh, nobody is here again. Oh well, I'm bored."

Actually I think it may decrease the number of hits to this site. There are a lot of lurkers who like to read what people say on here. Maybe it would be interesting to have outsiders allowed in to the private area...until they screw up: "Hi, I'm Bob(esq) from Bob's Publishing."

At any rate I'll still be watching the other sections and jumping in there as often as I do now.


Do you think that maybe they're afraid of public comment or are trying to hide the criticism that can be seen by prospective vict..., er, authors? Or are they trying to hide libelous statements to protect themselves? Bet you that either the current board soon disappears or only the happy topics from the hidden board are transferred to it for public consumption.

[rlfulgham]

I am a traditionally published author and have no beef with PublishAmerica. My traditional publishers are Overmountain and Australia's Mountain Mist. I have another traditionally published book scheduled for 2005 but would prefer not to name the press yet. I have self published two books via Lulu Press at www.lulu.com/LION.

Okay, now I don't know whether to call PublishAmerica "traditional" or not. I would without hestitation but for the extraordinary traffic on the Internet discussing its autheticity as a real publisher.

I placed with them my true crime novella "Man's Laughter: Anatomy of a Manhunt" this year. I knew from my research that the book would not be promoted, reviewed or displayed in convential ways. Neverhtless, PA produced for me a professional paperback with an absolutely terrific cover and durable construction. Knowing beforehand what to expect prevented me from feeling betrayed in any way. I have other books out and more coming, which will be promoted, etc. This particular book was a "showcase" book meant for a select group of friends and family - not for profit or high volume distribution.

That said, I argue that PublishAmerica is truly a democratic press. It keeps cost to a minimum, enabling it publish thousands of otherwise frustrated authors - many of whom are very good indeed. The survival of their book depends on its quality. The cream will rise to the surface, if democracy works at all. It also depends on the ingenuit and persistance of the author, again which allows the cream to rise. PublishAmerica is an all-American press which gives beforehand unpublishable authors a chance to find their audience and showcase their work. Indeed, I hope mine rises to the surface! At least I have that hope, and "that hope" is what being American is all about.
Richard Lee Fulgham. Author: "Appalalchian Genesis"; "The Embracing Woods". My PublishAmerica true crime book is "Man's Laughter: Anatomy of a Manhunt". I self-published my metaphysical memoir "LION: Nietzsche Contra Christ" viaq Lulu Press (www.lulu.com/LION).

[James D Macdonald]

The survival of their book depends on its quality.

Alas, R. L., that isn't quite true. Regardless of the book's quality, the non-standard discount via distributors, the non-returnability issue, and the extremely high cover price give the writer two strikes against him and a curve headed for the plate when it comes to finding his readers.

Add in the abusive contract and the fact that that higher-quality book shares the logo with the unedited ... let's say lesser-quality ... books that also come out from that press, and authors are looking at a formula for disaster.

In almost every case, the author would be better off self-publishing with a local short-run printer.

The higher-quality books could also find traditional publication, either with a major publisher or the plethora of small-press publishers.

I find your arguments unconvincing.

[DaveKuzminski]

I received an email regarding this site that considers both the Pro and Con sides of the issue regarding PublishAmerica. You can visit the site at URL payn.freelinuxhost.com/ (http://payn.freelinuxhost.com/) and decide for yourself.

[XThe NavigatorX]

I received an email regarding this site that considers both the Pro and Con sides of the issue regarding PublishAmerica. You can visit the site at URL payn.freelinuxhost.com/ and decide for yourself.

If that facts and figures page is accurate, it's a real eye-opener.

[alphabeter]

www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/5226.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/5226.htm)

How about BooksAMillion is trying to cover their costs for the ridiculously overpriced tomes?

Nah, that makes sense and PAvidians can't understand anything that coesn't come from "Mission Control" (now there is a name for Author Support! :lol ).

Here's another:

www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/5189.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/5189.htm)

A literary agent still wants them after they've been with PA? Unless its another scammer, they should run and thanks their stars.
But of course they are being talked out it. :eyeroll

Alpha

[Deejay816]

Well, firstly I think Phenix and Phenix (is that really how it's spelled?) is a publicist, not an agent. And yes, there are actually former PA authors who have gone on to be accepted by legitimate agents (I have) so to make comments that it's not possible is maybe a bit out of line.

Deej

[DaveKuzminski]

Gee, how come Author Support hasn't come out to defend the price at those stores? Aren't they the ones who claim that PA books will sell at higher prices because they're worth it?

[alphabeter]

Deejay
I didn't mean to imply that they should run away, in fact, they should run to them in gratitude.
However, a PR company runs by (former?) PAvidians is suspect on quite a few levels.
I wish them all luck. After any dealing with PA, one certainly needs it! :clover

Alpha

[vstrauss]

Did anyone else get an e-mail directing them to this site?

payn.freelinuxhost.com/ (http://payn.freelinuxhost.com/)

Dunno who's behind it, but I think they might have some copyright issues in re-posting verbatim a section of the PA website.

- Victoria

[DaveKuzminski]

Yes, I received it, too.

As to copyright infringement, there is considerable latitude given to instances where the purpose if for educational purposes which that site appears to be attempting to do. I certainly do not have any problem with what they have quoted from P&E as I do perceive it to be for educational purposes.

[FM St George]

now HB wants the PA boards to be made public so he can "take everyone on"...

www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/5261.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/5261.htm)

how pathetic...

hint: spend more time on your writing and less on your bullying...

*yawn*

[James D Macdonald]

HB and his chums are welcome here at any time. I'll be happy to address his misconceptions. I'm all about education.
<HR>
Update:

Now that I've read the thread, I think that HB only wants the board there opened to PA authors who've been banned.

As always, it's hard to figure out exactly what HB is going on about.

[priceless1]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>now HB wants the PA boards to be made public so he can "take everyone on"...

www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/5261.htm<hr></blockquote>
It's all about his narcissistic need to vent his anger. As one who has been vilified by him unjustly, I feel sorry for the guy. He needs help. Badly.

[Ed Williams 3]

...is that if HB wants to debate, to take on all comers, all he has to do is come here. Personally, I think he's like the proverbial dog chasing a bus - deep down he really doesn't want to catch it, but he sure wants to look like he does. The bottom line is that denied the protection of the PA womb, HB would be quickly exposed for what he is - a shill and wanna be for his PA overlords. It's easy to talk big when no one is going to call you on it.

[LaVerneRoss]

HB does have a major problem, there are times when he seems almost human. Mostly he is beastly to those he sees as a enemy.

Hey guys I got my release papers today dated the 2nd, with the gag order on it of course. Not signed it yet though. Wonder what the courts will think of all the gag orders on the writers? My book is still available everywhere except PAs site. Guess they found my review of my book there...

Is there a email address for the distributors of the books? Thinking about contacting them, and all the bookstores I can find. I have already sent them to the main ones.

Doesn't it seem strange that this paper comes at the time of the royalty payment that is supposed to be sent out? Guess I don't get my hamburger without the bun...
Heard of anyone else getting theirs this month?

[DaveKuzminski]

Cross out the gag order portion and then sign it. Initial where you crossed it out. See how they react then.

If you don't want to do that, how about if you put a similar gag order in it barring them from badmouthing you and repeating the same lies they told you before?

Of course, this is not legal advice and I have no expectation that they'd sign it with either of those modifications. Still, it might produce results, especially the last. Then if they reuse any of the same lies told to you on another writer, you could go public since they would have first breeched the agreement concerning that. That would probably be sometime in the following hour after they sign. Sometimes, the only way to fight fire is with fire.

[James D Macdonald]

What's the text of the gag order?

[DaveKuzminski]

Better yet, post the entire reply from them. Let's permit other writers to see how they behave. ;)

[priceless1]

Please look at this link. It deals with this very problem. I found it to be quite interesting.

<a href="http://www.mindsightseries.com/discus/messages/3831/4050.html?1091760720" target="_new">http://www.mindsightseries.com/discus/messages/3831/4050.html?1091760720</a>

[Andrew Spriggs]

I'm new here, but I still see the things that go around.

When I see things like this, I have problems:

www.prweb.com/releases/20...146480.htm (http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/8/prweb146480.htm)

Of course, the message boards over there scramble all over it--but I just don't see why people do it. One of my parent's friends went PA, and he was burned badly--so even though I don't know personally, I can't understand how people like in the link can just go about doing or saying this.

I don't believe in brainwashing, but I'm running out of other options to excuse this behaviour.

[XThe NavigatorX]

When I see things like this, I have problems:

www.prweb.com/releases/20...146480.htm

Oh my.

[James D Macdonald]

When I see things like that ... I'm filled with a desire to comment. Rather than a line-by-line, just a few comments though.

I hope that any news medium that picks that thing up does a bit of research before they run with it....

<HR>

All Authors Are Created Equal...

Not really. Most people can't write at all. Only a very few write books that someone other than Mom would want to read.

Publish America is the number one book publisher in the nation...

By what criterion? It's neither the oldest, nor the newest, nor does it have the greatest number of authors, nor the greatest number of titles. It doesn't have the most award winners, nor the most best-sellers. It doesn't pay the highest royalties. How is it "number one"?

They place thousands of books on the shelves of standard brick and mortar bookstores everyday.

They don't place diddly-squat. Their authors, by means of endlessly badgering individual bookstore owners, manage to place one or two copies of their individual books (often on consignment) on bookstore shelves. Since PublishAmerica has thousands of authors that works out to thousands of copies ... but hardly something for PA to be proud of. The authors could have done the same with books they printed in their basements.

These are not low cost, poorly printed, or print on demand books...

No, certainly not low cost, and no one's ever said that Lightning Source didn't do a good job of printing, but these sure as heck are Print On Demand books.

...author’s [sic] that have signed contracts and earn standard royalties from this company ...

Standard royalties are based on cover or list price. PublishAmerica's royalties are based on net price. Therefore, these are not standard royalties.

They preferred the one on one supportive treatment they receive from Publish America.

Really? We've seen examples of the "one on one supportive treatment" here. Folks banned from their message boards, the "don't take that tone with us" emails (when they can be bothered to reply at all), the lack of support for publicity, the lack of support for even such a basic act as printing and shipping books.

They are told that Publish America is a vanity publishing company, even though the authors do not pay one penny to be published and to the contrary are paid royalties that are often higher than other publishing companies.

This is because PublishAmerica is a vanity publishing company. On the day the first book is printed, the author has paid $30, and received back only $1. Every book printed thereafter has a $5 vanity press fee attached. Sales are primarily to the authors themselves, and to their families and friends. As to the royalties being higher -- yes, I suppose you can find publishers that don't pay royalties at all. I'd question the word "often."

... there are thousands of Publish America books lining the shelves of standard book stores.

There may be thousands of books (based on the efforts of thousands of authors), but that's divided by thousands of stores. Lining the shelves? No. You'd be hard-pressed to find any PublishAmerica book in any randomly selected bookstore. This is due to the high cost of the books, the non-returnable nature of the books, the lack of publisher salesforce, and (let's whisper) the poor writing of many, many PublishAmerica books. Tell me, other than your own book, how many PA books are on the shelves of your nearest standard book store? What did you have to do to get your book shelved?

But even with all of these obstacles Publish America Authors continue to submit second, third, fourth and fifth books to this company. Surely there must be a reason for such loyalty.

Many of them submit a second book before the first ever comes out, while they're still in that happy glow of pre-production wishful thinking, when they imagine that everything will go the way PA suggests it will. The rest are desperate.

Could it be that these intelligent individuals know a good deal when they see one?

Or could it be that there's a sucker born every minute, and a fool and his money are soon parted?

This is not the first time that the written word and those that write and publish it have been judged and banned from certain circles, I believe Hemmingway [sic] was one of these cases.

Well, actually, no. (Though Hemingway did self-publish his first book. It was a collection of poems.)

Wouldn’t it be a shame if the next Hemmingway was one of Publish America’s authors and couldn’t get a review or interview because of it?

It would surely be a shame if the next Hemingway were to be a PA author -- it would mean that his books would be read by about 75 of his family and friends.

I did not sign my contract with them because I couldn’t get published anywhere else; they were the first publisher that I sent my work into [sic].

Then how do you know that you couldn't have gotten your work published by a legitimate press?

They are my publisher of choice and not my last resort and I assure you I am not the only author that feels this way.

Yet there are others, many others, for whom PublishAmerica was the last resort. PublishAmerica is the home of the desperate, the deluded, and the naive. It looks to me like Ms. Von Reiman is one of the deluded ones. Answer honestly now, T. A. -- how many copies of your book have sold? Did any sell to someone you don't know by name? How many copies are on the shelves of bookstores? How much money have you, personally, spent on your book? Is it greater than the "royalties" you've earned? What were those royalties as a percentage of cover price? How many copies have you personally bought? Are you aware that the author buying her own copies is the vanity press model of publishing?

I also am the publisher of Writer’s Nook and Reader’s Corner...

Oh, dear! She's giving out advice to newbies?

Alas.

<HR>

Wait! Late-breaking news! T. A. Von Reisman's book, Storms of Destiny, hasn't come out yet! Nevertheless, Terri Von Reisman's second book, The Eyes of Horus has been accepted by PA. So the jury is still out -- maybe she's deluded, maybe she's naive. We'll see how she feels about PA a year from now.

Here's Terri's <a href="http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/6/prweb136706.htm" target="_new">PRWeb announcement</a> about her being "featured" in Writer's Digest.

Here's <a href="http://www.writersdigest.com/readercontribution_display.asp?id=349&secondarycategory=Speak+Out+Subhome+Page" target="_new">T.A.'s actual mention in Writer's Digest.</a>

[FM St George]

most media ignore press releases like this; as well as almost every PA book that goes through this routine. It's a good way to get your name out there, but I've never read about an interview or an article coming back to a PA author... nor a sale.

it's interesting how these PAvidians are all fired up while their book is still in the production stage and they've no idea of how little they're going to make - and then they slowly disappear as they get that first fat royalty check of a few dollars...

in a few weeks they should all be getting a major dose of reality.


:P

[SRHowen]

Authoress? I'm sorry but that's the first time I've seen that term used--is it even a word?

and her link at Writer's Digest doesn't work.

Shawn

[James D Macdonald]

Sure, authoress is a word, just like waitress and actress. It's just one that you don't see very often these days.

[SRHowen]

It just struck me as odd--a kinda look at me I am hip and all that. :jump

Shawn

[LaVerneRoss]

Mine is already signed by a Janice Riley, whoever that is. Guess they were anxious to get it done. So they don't have to pay me any royalties for the past six months. Must have made too many waves.

It just basically says we wont say anything about you if you do the same. No websites with anything against them either. Contract terminated, and all rights to publish, sell or export or cause to be published, sold, or exported in all forms is deemed released and revert back to author. Also said don't show it to anyone, or to a publisher.

Does anyone know who to contact to get the books from going out? I contacted BN and Amazon, and Books a million. But the others I am not sure about. WHat about the distributors? Any email addresses for them. I know PA isn't going to do anything. I saw their bookstore is still down too.
Will I be getting some other paper after this, or just the one I have?

[DaveKuzminski]

Well, I noticed on another forum that one of the PA authors speculated that PA authors who received viruses seemed to get those when they weren't in favor with PA, but that those viruses ceased arriving when speaking terms resumed. Who knows? However, if it's true, it could make one wonder if one got loose. They might have shot themselves in the foot or bookstore.

[James D Macdonald]

So they don't have to pay me any royalties for the past six months.

Just wait one stinkin' minute, LaVerne -- they're refusing to pay royalties for sales made while the contract was in force?

Fraud.

Fraud, and breach of contract.

Fraud, breach of contract, and theft.

Get a lawyer. Get your royalties. Get punitive damages. Let the FTC and IRS know. Don't screw around with these bozos.

(And if anyone would like to slip me, sub-rosa, the full text of one of their reversion documents complete with non-disparagment clause, I promise that only a subpoena will make me reveal where I got it.)

[Sher2]

<Mine is already signed by a Janice Riley, whoever that is. Guess they were anxious to get it done. So they don't have to pay me any royalties for the past six months. Must have made too many waves.

It just basically says we wont say anything about you if you do the same. No websites with anything against them either. Contract terminated, and all rights to publish, sell or export or cause to be published, sold, or exported in all forms is deemed released and revert back to author. Also said don't show it to anyone, or to a publisher.>


Good golly, LaVerne! Did they TELL you they weren't paying you any royalties from the past six months? If any copies of your book sold, they HAVE to pay you any royalties due, regardless of anything that has happened subsequently. Somebody said get a lawyer. I agree, and do it NOW!

As an aside, I know someone who received a registered letter regarding termination of contract this week. It was signed by Janice Riley, but it was on PublishIcelandica letterhead. This person had TWO books with PA, and the so-called release not only didn't say which title was being referred to, but also misspelled the author's name. Further, although the work had been deemed acceptable for publication as long as the author toed the line, once she wanted out, PA disparaged it in the letter, calling it something like "terrible editorially, unpublishable, and detrimental to the public welfare."

[DaveKuzminski]

Show it to us before you sign it.

[KW]

Found this hidden on PA's site.

Never published before.
The majority of our books that are sold retail are sold in physical brick and mortar bookstores. Tens of thousands of people and hundreds of our authors across the nation have purchased PublishAmerica books from physical brick and mortar bookstores.

Been published through a POD, or publish-on-demand company.
PublishAmerica has a full-time, full-fledged marketing department whose sole mission is the growth of the company. PublishAmerica sends review copies and book release announcements, gratis, to reviewers, sponsors and attends seminars, industry trade shows, works on direct mailing campaigns for each individual book, and sends out 10-15 press releases about our new authors each day. See our Up In Lights section for examples of the national press that many of our authors have enjoyed.

Been published by a vanity press, subsidy publisher, or self published.
PublishAmerica can remove the stigma of paying to be published. With PublishAmerica, you will have the very important distinction of having your next book ACCEPTED BY A TRADITIONAL PUBLISHING COMPANY. You may have invested quite a substantial amount in paying to have your book published. Now PublishAmerica can make your next book available in all bookstores nationwide. And, we do it for free. No fees, ever. Also, our team of professional editors and designers will proofread your manuscript and make corrections at no charge.

Been published by another traditional publisher.
Some of our authors who have previously been published by a traditional publisher still encounter the same difficulties when submitting their second or third books, especially if sales of their first books did not meet the publisher's expectations. We are proud to say that we will take a fresh look at your next book, regardless of your prior failures, or successes.

Why Publish with PublishAmerica?
Absolutely NO Publishing Fee Required, online or by mail.
Complimentary books are given to the author, free of charge.
Initial response after the first inquiry is approximately two to three weeks.
There is only one standard package for first time authors.
Almost all types of manuscripts are readily accepted, in either Windows PC, a Macintosh, a Unix computer, or any type of computer or word processor, in any of most major formats, including Microsoft Word, Corel WordPerfect, ASCII, PDF, HTML, DOS text, Rich text, or plain text !
No downloading, no programs to run, no rules at all!
The author retains the copyright of the book.
Professional cover design is absolutely FREE and author's suggestions or designs are willingly accepted.
No literary agents are required.
All books are available through most major bookstores, online, and through phone order.
PublishAmerica, Inc. works with the author on a Direct-Mail campaign for every book.
With the author's consent, the company will donate an allotted number of copies to a library for the blind or various literary programs.

"PublishAmerica has a full-time, full-fledged marketing department whose sole mission is the growth of the company."

If they have a marketing department then why are the authors books not marketed?

"Now PublishAmerica can make your next book available in all bookstores nationwide."

Guess they don't read their own message board. It's a growing problem trying to get our books into stores.

'With the author's consent, the company will donate an allotted number of copies to a library for the blind or various literary programs."

new to me since they say they only give out to books for reviews.

Kevin

[LaVerneRoss]

Dave, could sure use your advice and others on this. Other ways of dealing with this maybe. To sign or not to sign....

[LaVerneRoss]

I did email them and ask them about my royalty check, they didn't answer me at all. I don't know if they have been mailed out yet. when they do someone tell me. I think they might let a lot of authors go now, to save them money they don't have.
They got my name and book title right. Mine came in from their Frederick office. If I had a scanner I would send the whole thing into you guys. Since they signed it, isn't it legal or do I need to still send it in? I haven't done anything with it yet. I am going to mark out the part where they want me to shut up, as suggested.
How could I prove to a publisher that I have my rights back without showing them the paper? Yet PA said that I couldn't.

[lindylou45]

How could I prove to a publisher that I have my rights back without showing them the paper? Yet PA said that I couldn't

Right back to the scam - you get your rights back, but you can't do anything with the book. Why? You have to prove to your new publisher that rights have been reversed, but if you show them the letter, rights revert right back to PA.

Don't sign that thing! Run, don't walk, to your nearest attorney!

[DaveKuzminski]

Well, here's some information about PA's reversion letter. Basically, this appears to be a paraphrase. I can't vouch for it being the exact wording, but I'm working on obtaining a copy so I can post that. Anyway, here's what we have so far:

It says the agreement may not be modified unless agreed to by both parties. Transfer of rights.....states..........all rights to publish, sell or export or cause to be published, sold or exported the work including by not limited to print or book publications, motion picture, film, video, television and /or other electronic or computer video medium are deemed released and revert back to author.

Each party acknowledges and agrees, promises and covenants, and warrants that from this time forward they will not at any time exhibit, reveal or show this agreement,(including drafts) or its contents to a third party or publisher. Authors agrees that he, his agents and attorneys, employees or family members will only represent that the relationship between author and publisher was "disolved amicably" and will not disparage publisher in any manner whatsoever. That the relationship between publisher and author was "disolved amicably" and will disparage author in any manner whatsoever, or host and maintain any internet web sites whoe contest disparages author in any manner whatsoever. If suit is filed to enforce any part of this confidentialy and non-disparagement provision or otherwise seek redress for breach of this provision, the prevailing party or parties shall be entitled to recover all his/their attorneys fees relating to the dispute.
******************************
Okay, this is pretty rough in form, but I think there's enough to formulate some opinions.

[LaVerneRoss]

Dave glad you got a copy, guess everyone got the same letter. That is pretty much what mine says. If they signed it already, and I didn't is it legally binding on them? If I don't sign I dont get my book back, and if I do, I still don't have it back. If I cross out clause #5 and state I don't agree to abide by it, and consider it null and void does that count? Legal cost are a problem for me. So there must be more than one way to skin a rat? Didn't someone send them a letter stating the contact was void, and didn't sign the settlement paper?

[DaveKuzminski]

LaVerne, I'm not a lawyer, so any advice I give is strictly my own opinion and is not qualified legal advice. I think you should visit Volunteer Lawyers for the Arts (http://www.starvingartistslaw.com/help/volunteer%20lawyers.htm) and see if they can help. They may very well give you a dependable answer for free since they're volunteers.

You might have to send them a true copy of the reversion letter by copying and mailing it or by scanning it in to email to them.

My own opinion is that the reversal is as poorly written as the contract that PA offers. I don't believe all of its provisions could stand up in court if PA tried to force the issue of whether you could show it to a publisher in order to prove that you have all your rights returned.

By the way, if the other writer can't provide me with a copy, can you mail me a copy for my records? If so, email me and I'll give you a mailing address.

[XThe NavigatorX]

you both have to sign it before it means anything.

[LaVerneRoss]

Thanks Dave for the advise, I did email the details to them and ask them if they could at least advise me on what I can do. Without signing the gag order.
LEt me know if that other person doesn't send you a full copy of the release agreement...

[lindylou45]

motion picture, film, video, television and /or other electronic or computer video medium are deemed released and revert back to author.

Excuse me, they're not supposed to have these rights in the first place, so how can they reverse them back to us when we already own them???:shrug :bang

[DaveKuzminski]

Basically, those are the rights that are grabbed that made their contracts poor in the first place and why P&E and others have recommended against PA to begin with.

[FM St George]

while I don't support in any shape or form this silly practice of dumping bad reviews on Amazon, anyone find the threats below humorous?

www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/5278.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/5278.htm)

tismeself
8/06/2004
03:43:01
Subject: Negative review of my book


Message:
I went to Amazon.comuk In England and found this review of my book. "Well," you be the judge!

Reviewer: jack_dutchman from Dublin, Ireland
Sorry, but I read this book and wondered if the writer really had ever been to Dublin. It looks like it was made up by somebody who has read a few books about Dublin in the 1950s and thought they would like a go. And the 'Flats' in question were not built until after the author says he left Ireland .
...............................................
P.S The flats were built in 1930. I left in 1959. I still got me birth certificate. My uncle Willies son still lives in 1P (where I grew up. I made a rebuttal to this "socalled reviewer" and told him to go to "Hall of Records. I would not have responded to this person but he was making a subtle suggestion that I was a liar, on the internet. This guy is a typical example of someone who exercises "Contempt prior to investigation."


gold

8/06/2004
07:15:58


RE: Negative review of my book


Message:
It sounds like it may be the same guy that got Marti, see her message on this board.

Kevin James
Surviving the Single Dad Syndrome
www.kevin-james.com

hg

8/06/2004
07:51:44


RE: Negative review of my book


Message:
Sad to say, but it happens here within these threads too, and by people one would think intelligent enough to know better. However there will always be those who can not seem to exist without attempting to discredit or belittle others ... I suppose it makes them feel more important somehow. Isn't it ironic how "lies" tend to be believed by many while "truths" are considered suspicious?!

If there's one thing in life which I detest, it is any act of falsehood, whether directly stated or by innuendo ... but until those perpetrators are placed on the list of "hunting seasons", we will have to contend with them.

Be assured there are also those of us who don't readily fall for such accusatory tactics, instead having more suspicions of the accusers' intentions than in the weak substances of their attacks ... some of us actually think outside of the "mob mentality"!

Some will never "see truth" even if "struck between the eyes" with it ... this is life. In the end however, truth and honesty will rise above all and I trust you'll be vindicated along with others who've been falsely accused of various "crimes" by the "elite".

Correct those you can, "flush" those unwilling to accept truth over lie and live by your own standards ... the "others" will answer for themselves ... justice is not an "empty concept"!

You have a great book!
'hg'

www.hometown.aol.com/poetofshaddows
poetofshaddows@aol.com




daknut

8/06/2004
08:27:04


RE: Negative review of my book


Message:
btw, which book is it? What's the title?

Lee

Robbie

8/06/2004
08:31:51


RE: Negative review of my book


Message:
That is the pits. Your book is a good one and I know cause I have it. I loved the whole thing.

Don't pay any attention to morans like that. Marti got hit too and I'm sure this idiot has nothing better to do than sit around and slam someone. He probably can't write so that is why.

Odds are it is some punk that made no effort to sell their book and they are jealous of your's and Marto's success. I betothers that are doing well will get slammed too.

Oh well, forget those people exist. Just go on with your next book and being a great writer, Leo.

Hugs Robbie

Trigger

8/06/2004
10:19:49
RE: Reviewers that reject PA authors?


Message:
I hear so much about those who will not review PA authors work. I am waiting for my book " invisible Ink" to be published and will send it to many reviewers. I am a journalist who worked for eight daily newspapers and never turned down a book review properly introduced. Could someone inform me about names of the reviewers who reject PA authors?
Thanks,

carl

Amo

8/06/2004
11:27:53

Journey
RE: Negative review of my book


Message:
I'm not sure what the point to this is? You're in a subjective business, that's why its termed "reviews". Some people will love what you've written, other won't, and still other will challenge you credibility, and others will do anything to discredit you, so what's new?

I've had in total perhaps over 50 reviews from various sources, some appear on my website. I would guess 99.9% are extremely positive the 0.1% a bit so so.

Did I focus on the 0.1%? Of course I did, I even foolishly responded to one, then I realized that it's there dime, as long has it's constructive and not mean spirited or personal then its fair game…this is the process. Does it really change what you've written?

I've learned NEVER to respond to hot air, again what's the point? Amo



tismeself

8/06/2004
11:36:49


RE: Negative review of my book


Message:
Actually, I'm not mad at HIM, I cannot believe that Amazon would allow
reviews that are outside of the post and not in their guidelines. He is calling me a liar and that is slander. All authors get negative reviews but that was not a review.


Amo

8/06/2004
12:05:11

Journey
RE: Negative review of my book


Message:
Enjoy the fact that you've become a PUBLIC FIGURE, and he's not. That in itself is a unique accomplishment, celebrate that! There's always someone waiting to take you down, they only succeed if you allow them to. Amo.



tismeself

8/06/2004
15:04:27


RE: Negative review of my book


Message:
Thank you Amo, that was good to hear. Sometimes we need to hear common sense and that is why this is my favorite board. Me mind is clearin up now.

tismeself

8/06/2004
15:07:06


RE: Negative review of my book


Message:
To/ Lee,
My book is The Flats ISBN # 1413721591
Leo Byrne

daknut

8/06/2004
15:16:46


RE: Negative review of my book


Message:
Thanks, Leo - I wanted to read the review myself to see if he'd written anything else.

The one thing I'd say would be that, if someone had written that of my book, my objection would be that to award it only one star for one negative point is unrealistic.

I do believe that he should say why he thinks that his one point is worth a loss of 80%. It's like saying there's one historical inaccuracy in mine (and there are a couple that I know about but included them deliberately) and, therefore, it makes the writing quality pitiful.

I'm with you - I think he should've provided more comments for a one star rating.

Lee

tismeself

8/07/2004
04:10:48


RE: Negative review of my book


Message:
Anyway it is all taken care of. Deborah MacGillivray (pen name LadyA) one of the top 100 reviewers in Europe and the US (#82) went after Amazon.com.uk and she recieved this response....

This just came in!


Dear Customer

Thank you very much for bringing this review to our attention.

Please rest assured that these comments have been removed from our
database and will shortly disappear from the website.

We do exert some editorial control over our customer reviews and
strive to block these kinds of reviews. Amazon.co.uk does not
tolerate profane or spurious customer reviews. Our intention is to
make the customer review forum a place for constructive commentary
and feedback, so reviews that fall outside these guidelines are
removed from the website.

We apologise for this situation and thank you for taking the time to
let us know. Feedback from conscientious customers such as yourself
helps us maintain the quality and integrity of our website.

Thank you for your interest in Amazon.co.uk.


Warmest regards

Paul Dickinson
Customer Service
Amazon.co.uk



darleneg

8/07/2004
15:17:32


RE: Negative review of my book


Message:
Stay strong because he hit me too and said that my book wasn't a christian book and shouldn't be read by kids and adults alike, and who would ever write about the distruction of the pearly gates.
At first I was so hurt because I never even mentioned in my book that the pearly gates were destroyed, but before I could even respond some reader who happens to like my book got to him first, and she let him have it with both barrels full.
I had a great laugh at the way she put him in his place. That if he had read my book like he said he had, he would have known that the pearly gates was never destroyed.
This person is really sick, and if you read on my WARNING info, he now has made some new friends with my husbands friends, who really wants to meet him personally.
My husband has been a federal investigator, Sherrif, and not only owns a reccord label, but has many friends in leather on harleys with badges that would love to get to know this guy.
It pays to have some awesome friends, so if anyone here knows who this guy is, and where we can get his web site, just send it to me, and then we'll all have some fun with the law on our side.
Slander is definately an offence and is not taken lightly by the law.

All the best
Darlene Grimmett
ANGELS IN THE MIST
publishedauthors.net/darlenegrimmett


tismeself

8/07/2004
17:00:17


RE: Negative review of my book


Message:
Thank you Darlene for helping me pull tis guy's cover. I belong to 12 Irish Forums from around the globe and I had this topic on them. I copied your posting to all of them (thousands of readers) and also posted your "Angels In The Mist"
So I have given your book exposure with a recommendation for purchasing it.
Leo Byrne
The Flats

darleneg

8/07/2004
18:52:11


RE: Negative review of my book


Message:
Thank you so much Leo and I have through my husbands record label a multi million people submission line. Where I too can post your book to millions all around the world.
Working together as a team can really kick this guy where it hurts, his mouth! and his typing can be stopped for good as soon as my husband and his buddies find him.
We're one of the major reccord labels right now singing,but when we are done then my husband's getting online to flush this man out of hiding.
He will be caught and he will be delt with quickly.
So if he knows what is good for him he should run with some really good nikes on, as he has made the wrong husband mad. My husband is livid and has always as a sherif been the first one in a battle, and the last one always standing. He is not afraid of any loud mouth who needs to learn that the law will not stand for this kind of slander, and that there is a really nice set of bars that he can decorate when my husband gets ahold of him.
Then when he is put in custody for all of this slander, he'll be in my husbands terf with the law right behind him.
No one should ever slander anyone and continuously get away with it. This man better start looking for his bail money quick, because this will be stopped.
And I'll put you on my search engine to send out your info too.

All the best
Darlene Grimmett
ANGELS IN THE MIST
publishedauthors.net/darlenegrimmett

[DaveKuzminski]

Well, I think one author needs to look up the meaning of libel and slander. Since the comments were apparently written, the author's response was wrong in calling it slander.

Otherwise, I noticed at URL amazingforums.com/forum2/DUSTYS/22.html (http://amazingforums.com/forum2/DUSTYS/22.html) known as Case Watcher's Message Board, the board administrator is upset that individuals are using one topic to post both sides of the discussion rather than just a bunch of hooray for PA comments.

[DaveKuzminski]

Check this out at Case Watchers Message Board. Here's the topic URL: amazingforums.com/forum2/DUSTYS/58.html (http://amazingforums.com/forum2/DUSTYS/58.html)

[AnneMarble]

Otherwise, I noticed at URL amazingforums.com/forum2/DUSTYS/22.html known as Case Watcher's Message Board, the board administrator is upset that individuals are using one topic to post both sides of the discussion rather than just a bunch of hooray for PA comments.

I keep expecting them to say "PublishAmerica is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful publishing company I've ever known in my life." :shrug

[Sher2]

<while I don't support in any shape or form this silly practice of dumping bad reviews on Amazon, anyone find the threats below humorous?
www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/5278.htm>


It's humorous, but it's also pretty scary. According to what I'm seeing on the PA board, they're getting up a virtual lynch mob. Geez, hasn't it ever occurred to any of them that sometimes a book gets a negative review because it SUCKS? One has only to read some of these folks' barely literate posts to glean a pretty good idea of what their books must look like. It ain't rocket science.

[HapiSofi]

Laverne, sorry I've missed so much of this discussion. The AW board has gone massively wonky on me. Anyway, here's my two cents' worth: Don't sign that agreement. PublishAmerica demonstrably isn't negotiating in good faith.

The main thing you do with a reversion letter is give a copy of it to your next publisher when you go to contract. It makes Legal happy. A reversion letter you can't show to anyone might as well not exist.

Me, I'd write back and say "I'm glad we've established that PublishAmerica is willing to revert the book, but the terms you're offering are bizarre. All I want is a bog-standard reversion letter -- you know, like every other publishing house uses."

[astonwest]

"It's humorous, but it's also pretty scary. According to what I'm seeing on the PA board, they're getting up a virtual lynch mob."

This isn't the first time such a thing has happened on the PA board, and I'm certain it won't be the last...

Big Daddy West
:hat

[Ed Williams 3]

Hey all,

I happen to write a weekly newspaper column called "Free Wheelin'" that runs in about twenty newspapers and websites. A few weeks ago I ran a column about publishing scams, and mentioned that a certain scam publisher would publish just about anything. I then listed some actual book titles and asked my readers to make their own judgements. Well, the authors of two of those titles contacted me. One was just mad and expressed it, the other asked me if I did book reviews, I replied no, but he still insisted on sending me a copy. I told him that if he waited on PA to send me one that it might be a long wait. I even gave the guy my address, but alas, as of yet, no book.

This whole PA thing just gets more and more amazing, PA Barnum was absolutely right.....

[DaveKuzminski]

Over at the Case Watchers forum, Mr. Andrew Pate, a vice president with Lightning Source, posted some prices for printing services Lightning Source provides to publishers. The URL is amazingforums.com/forum2/DUSTYS/74.html (http://amazingforums.com/forum2/DUSTYS/74.html)

[FM St George]

that board is quite the interesting place... especially when PAvidians are yelling at notable editors as if they were idiots...

HB better not try to sell any of his writing to Van Gelder anytime soon, methinks...

:P

[AnneMarble]

You know what's truly said? That board is associated with a site about upcoming trials, unsolved crimes -- a great idea for a site, the sort of thing I was looking for some time ago. Yet on their board, there seems to be about one current post about a missing person -- but it has gotten lost in the multiple threads about negative reviews on Amazon, defenses of PA, etc. They're not PAvidians, they're PrAvdavians

When read some of their posts (especially in that ridiculous "Truth about Dave" thread), I wonder how long it will take for them to start posting "Did not!" or "Did so!"

[DaveKuzminski]

Sooner or later, one of those loose cannons like HB over at PA is going to cause them major problems. Some of the major publishers might have enough influence to retaliate by persuading a company like Lightning Source not to deal with PA or risk losing the major company's business. Doesn't mean it's right, but it happens all the time in the real world.

[XThe NavigatorX]

Wow. How incredible is that? Now there's some guy threatening Dave because his wife got a bad review.

I just went to the Amazon page of the other author who claims Dave wrote a bad review. That review was obviously written by someone who's read the book and knows about the case. How could she possibly blame Dave for that? It's incredible to me. www.amazon.com/exec/obido...ce&s=books (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1413713750/qid=1092074512/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-4575201-0105569?v=glance&s=books) .

[DaveKuzminski]

I can't help it. I just bring out the best in people.

[FM St George]

yep, the one from the "Christian" woman threatening that her cop husband and his buds on Harleys will be down to beat someone up is a rather hysterical post.... given the amount of spelling and grammar errors as well I can just imagine the book. Christian, indeed.

*shudders*

they only hurt their own case with postings like this - the sad thing is that in a few months they'll be crying the PA blues when they get that first or second royalty check and see how small it is...

[Sher2]

<I just went to the Amazon page of the other author who claims Dave wrote a bad review. That review was obviously written by someone who's read the book and knows about the case. How could she possibly blame Dave for that? It's incredible to me. www.amazon.com/exec/obido...ce&s=books .>


I just took a look at the reviews. I think that it's pretty clear where the "5-star" reviews came from. You can always tell a PAvidian by the less than stellar spelling and grammar. What absurdity. What next?

[Sher2]

<yep, the one from the "Christian" woman threatening that her cop husband and his buds on Harleys will be down to beat someone up is a rather hysterical post.... given the amount of spelling and grammar errors as well I can just imagine the book. Christian, indeed.>

It's ridiculous to see grown people behaving like that. Especially grown people who want to call themselves "writers", much less "Christians." I've reviewed books I was less than pleased with. Thank God, nobody ever threatened to come and beat me up over it. One (very well known) author, in fact, e-mailed me with a promise to do better on the next book. She did, too!

[lindylou45]

I told him that if he waited on PA to send me one that it might be a long wait.


It was two months for the reviewer that I had finally gotten to agree to review the book. She refused to review it because it had taken so long to get to her. :smack

[DeePower]

Over and over again I keep hearing "you should have read your contract," "don't come crying about PublishAmerica because you didn't read your contract," PA never says your book will be in bricks and mortar bookstores in their contract." etc. etc.

I have only signed four publishing contracts, one of which is PublishAmerica. The other three are for major traditional publishing houses.

None of the contracts state:

the book will be sold in bricks and mortar bookstore

there will be review copies sent or how many, or where those review copies will be sent.

None say that a return or nonreturn policy on the book will be or will not be offered.

None of the contracts include how the book will be distributed or by whom.

None of the contracts say that a Library of Congress catalog description will be obtained.

None of the contracts specify the marketing efforts the publisher will expend to promote the book.

So how am I supposed to know that PublishAmerica won't make any effort to sell my book to brick and mortar bookstores, won't send any review copies, doesn't have a return policy, didn't obtain a library of congress catalog description, or did not exert any marketing effort for my title by reading their contract?


Dee

www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com (http://www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com)

[James D Macdonald]

Another thing you keep hearing is "no one forced you to sign the contract."

Lack of force is not lack of fraud.

Dee's quite right -- standard publishing contracts don't mention those things, mostly because they don't have to. Since the publisher makes money by selling books to the public, they automatically send out review copies well in advance of publication to a wide list of reviewers, arrange distribution and shelving in doors-and-windows bookstores, obtain a LOC catalog description, send out sales people, and market the book to the trade in a variety of ways. When PublishAmerican claims to be a "traditional publisher" they are, in fact, claiming that they do those things too.

They aren't; it's false advertising.

[KW]

Not to mention Dee that in the author questionnaire, the one all PA's authors have to fill out, they ask for three pics of you. One they use for the back of the book, the other two are used for promotional material.

Now people can say that PA never says they will promote but when they ask for the pics to use for promotion what is the author suppose to think? Are we suppose to read their minds?

"OK Meiners I will send in the pics because you say you need them to promote my book, but reading your mind I see that you won't do this. I'll send them anyways because you say so." :rofl

Kevin Yarbrough

[James D Macdonald]

The review that "Christian" woman was objecting to is apparently gone. It wasn't the review from "Colorado Cop," it was from someone using the name "Kathy" who said, "This book is so poorly written that I couldn't finish it," or words to that effect.

The style of that brief slam-review didn't remind me of Dave's style at all.

Regardless, I believe that whatever charges of "slander" the author might consider, the person who claims to be her husband looks like he committed a couple of criminal acts in his post: communicating a threat.

[Sher2]

<So how am I supposed to know that PublishAmerica won't make any effort to sell my book to brick and mortar bookstores, won't send any review copies, doesn't have a return policy, didn't obtain a library of congress catalog description, or did not exert any marketing effort for my title by reading their contract?>


That's exactly my beef with PA, too. I DID read my contract, and so did my attorney boss. He doesn't know anything about publishing law, and neither do I. We both assumed that the normal activities of a traditional publisher such as marketing, promotion, sales/returns to booksellers, etc., were tacit and, therefore, there was no need to enumerate them in the contract. So, I read it and I signed it, THINKING I knew what I was signing. I'm not whining about it, but I'll tell anybody who will listen that it was deceptive and fraudulent. For now, the only thing to do is move on. I have other books and there will be other publishers, Lord willing and the creek don't rise. If I ever actually see my 2 free author's copies, I'll stick 'em on the shelf and chalk it up to experience.

[Dodgem James]

"Alas, R. L., that isn't quite true. Regardless of the book's quality, the non-standard discount via distributors, the non-returnability issue, and the extremely high cover price give the writer two strikes against him and a curve headed for the plate when it comes to finding his readers."

Three strikes Jim. Count 'em. That's three.

[XThe NavigatorX]

Maybe he meant the first two were strikes and the last one was the curve.

*****

I didn't realize there was a 2nd one-star review. All of the reviews save the first (last) one have come in over the last couple days.

[LaVerneRoss]

I don't believe Dave did it either. Not his style, he wouldn't hide if he decided to do something like that. Unlike some...So they are threatening people for the reviews? That is illegal, even on the web. Maybe it is to distract us from what we are trying to do. Getting the other PA authors to attack, and start a war so we will forget the other? Possible.

Since PA decided to send me a gag order, I have been hit at Amazon heavily too. Most comes from what I had on my website, about my disagreement with a certain publisher, and what happened, as well as various excerpts, synopsis from my book, for certain words, like...vampire, elf, south, paranormal, and time travel. Acccusing me of stealing each of those things. Claimed they bought the book recently, and mentioned the wrong cover.

So I don't think we can make the other authors undestand we don't have a personal fight with them. It is with PA only.

[FM St George]

let us know if that "Christian" woman and her big, bad cop husband show up at your door, okay?

I shudder to think about her writing skills if her posts are any indication....

*shakes head*

[HConn]

The whole thing makes me sad.

This desperate little woman who wants her husband to beat up random people because she can't believe her PA book got a bad review.

HB telling Gordon Van Gelder that PA is taking HB places but GVG is going nowhere. For those who don't know, Mr. Van Gelder is editor and publisher of one of the top sf/f magazines. Walk into any Borders or B&N--you'll find several copies sitting on the shelves. He used to be an editor at St. Martin's Press (I have a rejection slip from him).

People who feel so aggrieved and defensive that they'll create elaborate conspiracies to explain their difficulties. God forbid a bad review should actually reflect a person's honest opinion. It must be an attack. God forbid people should stand up for what Dave K and P&E are doing. They must be his friends, and Dave himself must have all sorts of dark plots in the works.

It makes me sad. Why do I keep coming to this thread?

[Sher2]

<let us know if that "Christian" woman and her big, bad cop husband show up at your door, okay?
I shudder to think about her writing skills if her posts are any indication....
*shakes head*>


Oh, man, what a bunch of hot-headed, pig-headed cretins on that board! It's clearly pointless to try and educate them. They hear only what they want to hear, and that's it.

Gotta tell you, if I had signed up for Robbie/Corrine's writing class, I'd be demanding a full tuition refund. LOL.

[James D Macdonald]

Hey, Canada! How've you been?

Three strikes Jim. Count 'em. That's three.

Nah, the batter hasn't swung at the third one yet. It may be a strike in a second or two ... but right now that curve is still headed for the plate. Maybe the batter will hit it. Who knows? I've heard of one or two authors who didn't entirely strike out. But a few out of thousands ... man, I don't like those odds.

[James D Macdonald]

HB better not try to sell any of his writing to Van Gelder anytime soon, methinks...

Nah, Gordon is a professional. If HB submitted a good story that met his needs, he'd buy it. The work stands alone.

[DaveKuzminski]

Agreed, James. Mr. Van Gelder and Ms. Nielsen-Hayden both have class because they're professionals in the publishing industry. They also know much more than HB can learn in the next decade even if he devoted every waking second to learning about publishing.

[Euan Harvey]

They've just removed the thread that told everyone all the truth about Dave.

Some might say it was because of the threats of violence, but I say it was Dave. He probably posted those threats himself so he could have a reason to demand that the thread be pulled because it was getting uncomfortably close to the truth.

Isn't that right Dave, huh, huh, huh?

They sure got your number, pal.

:lol

Really amazing. That board is a case study in cognitive dissonance.

Cheers,

Euan

[lindylou45]

Gotta tell you, if I had signed up for Robbie/Corrine's writing class, I'd be demanding a full tuition refund. LOL

She has a writing class?! OMG!!! :ha :rofl

[James D Macdonald]

She has a writing class?!

Indeed she does. At North West Tarrant County College in Fort Worth, Texas.

Speaking of her book, here's the <a href="http://www.geocities.com/oh2bawriter/DeadMen.htm" target="_new">first chapter</a>.

On her web page, Corrine says " Unless you're famous first time authors do not merit shelf space..." which makes me wonder what else she's teaching her students. I don't think she's walked through a bookstore lately, noting the first-time authors on the shelves....

[DaveKuzminski]

I have no idea why they removed that thread. However, I can speculate.

It might have been because I repeated my initial warning. It might have been because HB insulted some very reputable individuals in the publishing industry. It might have been removed because the individual communicating threats toward me was a police officer and that kind of thing is not good for one's career, especially when federal laws are involved. It might have been stricken because the site operator realized that she'd committed libel. However, you'll have to ask her why it was removed. Besides, it doesn't matter to me. I have a copy of it already.

Now, Euan, do you want to discuss why you want to libel me here by assigning me false motives and actions or is that supposed to be tongue in cheek?

[Euan Harvey]

...tongue was firmly in cheek.

[Note to self: when posting, remember they can't hear you speak]

No, what amazed me about the post in question was that people were saying things like that and being perfectly serious about it.

Still, I suppose it's understandable. PA has given them a contract. This validates them as writers. Along comes someone who says that PA is a scam. This can't be true (otherwise their validation disappears), so the person telling them PA is a scam must be lying, and must have ulterior motives.

I remember a post here from a while back (I think it might even have been about PA), about how violent reactions can be when a Big Lie is exposed. The bigger the lie, the more violent the reaction. You're trying to puncture a very Big Lie, Dave, so the reactions are going to be violent. Still, you're doing a good job in my book.

Cheers,

Euan

[FM St George]

I believe that the poster referred to is teaching a night course to seniors... not that it excuses her bad grasp of grammar and spelling, but she's not teaching to a class of thousands...

slight defense...

*shrug*

[FM St George]

"The whole thing makes me sad.

This desperate little woman who wants her husband to beat up random people because she can't believe her PA book got a bad review."

true - I can't get over the fact that she claims to have written a Christian book... last time I checked, there wasn't much leeway for beating up someone 'cause they badmouthed your book. And dragging her cop hubby into it AND mentioning his "biker buddies" has got to be a Movie-Of-The-Week plot somewhere... I mean, how immature is that?

"HB telling Gordon Van Gelder that PA is taking HB places but GVG is going nowhere. For those who don't know, Mr. Van Gelder is editor and publisher of one of the top sf/f magazines. Walk into any Borders or B&N--you'll find several copies sitting on the shelves. He used to be an editor at St. Martin's Press (I have a rejection slip from him)."

I know - I choked when I read that. I've gotten many a rejection slip from GVG and darned happy that he took the time to do it personally - he's one of the most respected peeps around and HB is treating him like trash...

"People who feel so aggrieved and defensive that they'll create elaborate conspiracies to explain their difficulties. God forbid a bad review should actually reflect a person's honest opinion. It must be an attack. God forbid people should stand up for what Dave K and P&E are doing. They must be his friends, and Dave himself must have all sorts of dark plots in the works.

It makes me sad. Why do I keep coming to this thread? "

... because we keep on hoping.

Hoping that Dave K.'s work and the rest of the people who dedicate their time and resources to exposing scams like PublishAmerica will get through to one or two people who will turn away and save their time and money - and to be fair, we've seen some of them post here and elsewhere that this thread and all the info has turned them back from signing a contract.

but for those who blindly follow HB and his PAvidians into the ocean like lemmings, well... we can only hope they have good credit.

heck, PA knows they do.

:P

[DaveKuzminski]

No problem, Euan, but I just wasn't certain, so I had to ask. Thanks for the clarification.

[Deejay816]

James - That would actually be Tarrant County College - the northwest campus. I know because it's just a few miles from my house. Are we absolutely certain she teaches there? I am just floored by that whole concept -

Deej

[FM St George]

her website at www.geocities.com/oh2bawriter/ (http://www.geocities.com/oh2bawriter/)

says this:

I am an author and writer!
My credits include (at present) teaching Creative Writing through the Continuing Education class for Senior Citizens at North West Tarrant County College in Ft Worth, Texas. I produce and contibute to printed Anthologies for the students and staff. During the Fall 2002 semester we had a wonderful 150 page Anthology which included poetry, fiction and non-fiction.

same one?

[arainsb123]

Wow, I actually finished reading every single post in this thread! Thanks to this site, WritersNet, Preditors and Editors, and Writer Beware, I've decided not to sign with PublishAmerica. Thanks to all of you for posting your PA experiences!

[DaveKuzminski]

I believe Kevin Yarbrough brought out a good point over on the Case Watchers forum when he replied to Maxwell who stated that authors can negotiate their contracts with PA that the PA web site specifically states that they have one contract for everyone.

[XThe NavigatorX]

Case Watchers forum? What case watchers forum?

[DaveKuzminski]

Oh, you're missing all the action. It's at URL amazingforums.com/forum2/...forum.html (http://amazingforums.com/forum2/DUSTYS/forum.html)

Argh, too late. They're closing. I wouldn't be surprised if PA in the guise of Maxwell forced them to close because he was being caught in his own twisted logic. Maxwell said he'd provide proof and the only way out of that was to force the board to close.

[XThe NavigatorX]

No, I'd seen it before, but it looks like it's gone now. All that's left is a nasty note about you.

[bluwinteryfox]

The board is now closed. Wow Dave, I bet you didn't know you wheeled that much power. I just wonder who made the special request for the board to close. Any guesses?
Monique

[DaveKuzminski]

I tried to warn them about what PA did to Writers Island.

[XThe NavigatorX]

I've never heard of Writer's Island. Is there a story written online somewhere?

[DaveKuzminski]

Several years ago, a PA writer created a site called Writers Island. To my understanding, he actually had PA as a paying sponsor for his site. He asked on the site what was the problem between PA and P&E and some of the writers posted about it. Next thing you know, PA ordered him to cease the discussion. When he didn't since it was his site, PA removed his book from the market. In order to get his book back on sale, he was forced to close down his site.

When I saw the discussion about PA at Case Watchers and the direction it was taking, I felt motivated to give them a warning about what might happen.

[AnneMarble]

The board is now closed. Wow Dave, I bet you didn't know you wheeled that much power. I just wonder who made the special request for the board to close. Any guesses?

I can guess.

So much for anyone who was hoping to use that board to help them find missing family members, loved ones, etc. or discuss other crimes, trials, etc. Of course, they'll blame Dave for that, even though they started all, or almost all (I've forgotten and it's gone now) of the posts.

P.S. :bang

[DaveKuzminski]

Yes, that's why they left that remnant there with my name on it. PA wants that there. They'll point that out and new writers who don't know better might believe it. Those who know the truth will know that it was caused by PA.

I figure it's only a matter of time before the site operator removes that once it becomes apparent that PA isn't helping her cause. If she wants to help missing people, then her book needs better distribution that what PA offers. She can't spend her time selling when she needs it for missing people cases. Once that logic hits her, she'll be ready to admit that PA is the true culprit.

[KW]

To bad I never got an answer for that one Dave. Would have liked an answer from Mr. Pate as well to see if the authors could track how many books of ours are printed. As for the standard contract? Here it is.

"Why Publish with PublishAmerica?
Absolutely NO Publishing Fee Required, online or by mail.
Complimentary books are given to the author, free of charge.
Initial response after the first inquiry is approximately two to three weeks.
There is only one standard package for first time authors."

This is on the same page as their "we have a full fledged marketing department intent on the growth of the company."

So, I guess Maxwell was wrong huh? I have heard of authors negotiating the contract, but only for more authors books. The ones I mentioned to Maxwell; return-ability, marketing, bigger advance, ARC's sent out, they would rather rescind the contract then do all of those.

She owned the board, I don't think it would be hard enough for her to check and see who was doing the posting. Oh, well. I tried to warn them about PA, but they didn't want to see it. I can only do what I can do. People either listen or they don't. I know my posts at mindsight have brought me numerous emails from PA authors wanting to know what was up or just to tell e their stories.

Kevin

[KW]

What does seem odd to me is that it was closed due to a special request. Request from whom?

Kevin

[XThe NavigatorX]

Thanks for the info on Writer's Island.

The Marti character is talking about the board on the PA board now www.publishamerica.com/cg...l/1503.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/general/1503.htm)

What's really sad, to me, is that she really believes everything she says, and she truly sees Dave and his imaginary posse of reviewers as out to get her because they can't reach PA. If such a thing really was happening to her, it'd be outrageous. The fact it's untrue doesn't change how she feels, though. That really sucks.

"Blastphemous" :rollin I think I just found the perfect name for my band.

[lindylou45]

Speaking of her book, here's the first chapter.

Oh my!

I wish I could warn her students.

[DaveKuzminski]

I don't believe that anyone attacked the site owner. If she can't stand opposing views, then she might have been right to shut her site down.

However, I still believe that those remarks about being requested and about being "too close to the truth" mean that she was forced by PA to shut down.

Forgot to mention this:

Interestingly enough, two attempts were made to shut down the Publish America Yes or No? web site. In fact, the host received five identical letters from PA authors demanding it be closed. At this rate, PA will cause that site to abandon its neutrality.

By the way, I doubt that any PA author has noticed yet, but the only positive remark (up to now) concerning the PA Facts page on that site wasn't even written by a PA supporter.

[Deejay816]

Oh, I wish I could warn her students too! I looked at the TCC Northeast campus website and there are creative writing classes listed but no indication of who's teaching them. You would think TCC would check credentials, but I guess not.

Deej

[DaveKuzminski]

I meant to mention something else regarding Mr. Pate at Lightning Source. I wrote to his company asking if he could clarify which of PA's two claims of book sales (250k or 1m) was closest to accurate since both have been publicly claimed by PA.

I have a feeling that PA isn't happy with the fact that Mr. Pate showed up to give some accurate figures and a URL for more on what Lightning Source charges along with those other notables, none of whom were called upon by me. I have, though, sent thanks to Gordon and Teresa for their support. I had to post my thanks to Gordon in his own forum since I don't have his email address, so I hope he finds it.

I don't believe that I wield any power, but I do believe I have integrity, determination, and persistence. Those go a long way with support from good people like those from AW and other places who pointed out the truth on my behalf. Thank you, everyone. I'd give you each a personal thanks, but I didn't get every page copied from Case Watchers before it shut down. Still, I'll remember that many of you were there when it mattered.

[vstrauss]

"Maxwell" was Willem. I recognized the language. He's like a broken record.

- Victoria

[DaveKuzminski]

That's what I thought, Victoria. That explains why the place folded. I got the better of him before and did it again. I know he's definitely not happy with anyone from Lightning Source showing up, either.

Hey Willem, when are you going to hire someone with brains to argue with us?

[BeckEaston]

I thought, what the heck? I could check it out and see how easy it was for this Marti to gather a forum all on her own and low and behold, it was extremely easy. Check it out, I did it too. Hers is closed...mine is open. LOL

amazingforums.com/forum2/...forum.html (http://amazingforums.com/forum2/EASTON/forum.html)

You go Dave!!! I watched it all! :clap

[DaveKuzminski]

It looks marvelous, Rebecca. I'll try to stop in from time to time. If anyone asks for me, give me a holler and I'll visit.