The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

[priceless1]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>They harassed me with further emails, and called my lawyer and I "laughable."<hr></blockquote>
Hey, no fair. He said those things to me just last week. Did I get a re-tread? <img border=0 src="http://www.absolutewrite.com/images/Emoterofl5.gif" />

[DaveKuzminski]

I disagree. I think comments such as that should be just as portable as those made on a public board. That those were made on a private board is no different from comments being printed in a printed subscription publication. Once those comments blush out into either libel or the condition of the industry, those should be fair game for fair use responses just as comments on a printed subscription publication would be so long as proper attribution is given.

In my opinion, Mr. McCann's comments have seeped beyond a mere blush into matters that are commentable by others.

Given his propensity to delete his own posts, much like PA does to their authors, I see considerable validity in copying his posts as a reference for any responses. Furthermore, he posts in a forum where others cannot respond to him. Therefore, I have to support Dee's actions in this.

[HapiSofi]

Let it go, Dave. That tarbaby doesn't need another kicking, and you'd have to cross someone else's fenceline to do it.

[CWGranny]

I don't know how quoting someone exactly could be considered a "slam," but I've always thought copying from a private board was...not really nice. Though if you didn't copy and just paraphrased, I guess then it would be a slam, right?

Probably, ignoring would work best.

gran

[Ed Williams 3]

...we all know McCann is a two faced, trouble making weasel, but I don't think we ought to post comments from a private board here. He's banned from these boards for good reason, and the longer he stays gone, the better.

On a far more upbeat note, Kevin, you need to write some more PA spoofs, your earlier stuff was great! As for worrying about HB, let's face it, other than the PA boards who even knows he's out there? And who cares? You've got talent, son, use it!

:clap

[winniemitzandme]

I thought I read on another board where this person everyone is talking about, said he was NOT published with PA.

If that is true, then how is it he can post to their message board, private or not?

Good Lord, I'm confused.

Violet

[DaveKuzminski]

Stating you haven't been published is one of those fine distinctions where you should add the word "yet" into the meaning. Then it becomes obvious that the poster is going to be published. That gives many individuals a reason to defend their benefactor since they don't want the benefactor to dump them or go belly up.

[James D Macdonald]

Dave, are you under a geas to comment every time Canada's name pops up? I really suggest that you ignore him completely. Offer it up for the souls in Purgatory.

[DaveKuzminski]

James, I'm unfamiliar with the meaning or usage of geas.

[Whachawant]

<img border=0 src="http://www.absolutewrite.com/images/emoteHammer.gif" />



<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Not to mention the vicarious thrill he'll get, knowing you're keeping tabs on him<hr></blockquote>

(personally I could careless where the information comes from or who its about...but I'll have to side with CaoPaux on this. This guy received enough attention when he was here... and doesn't need any more. Paris Hilton, J Lo, Pam Anderson, Bush, and Elvis, not to mention the entire P.A. organization might be upset that you're paying attention to his* 'ass' and not theirs.)
*Dodgem what's his name..

[James D Macdonald]

A geas (pl. geasa) is from Irish folklore; it's a Gaelic word meaning 'supernatural compulsion.'

<BLOCKQUOTE>
She could not stand this rejection and dashed to him, catching him by the ears. " You will have asses' ears for all to mock if you do not take me with you. She bound him with a geas that he would never leave her.

( Well most Irish heroes had geasa laid on them. They were literally bound to behave in a certain way. There was nothing they could do to avoid it. If they did they would perish by breaking the bond of the geas. Perhaps we are superstitious about the number thirteen and walking under ladders. This is mild stuff. Irish life was full of prohibitions and taboos. The most important for Ulstermen was the geas that they should not ride anti sun wise round Emain Macha in their chariots showing the left side of their chariot to those within. This was a heinous crime and insult.

On the other hand, Cuchullain had a geas that he should not meat of a dog. Fortunately, though he travelled far, he avoided Asia and was thus all right. ) </blockquote>
<a href="http://users.argonet.co.uk/users/paw/tain/p1-8.htm" target="_new">The Tain</a>

[absolutewrite]

I've just stuck a new post to the top of this board. Please have a look, spread it all around, and feel free to make comments on it in this thread. I really think we can make something happen if we work together on it.

Also, Dee, do you want a private board where people who are interested in a class-action suit can organize?

[ncq13]

Jenna THANK YOU! I can't tell you how much I appreciate what you are doing. Currently, a group of us are working on taking action and we would certainly benefit from some help-- particularly media contacts. It would also help to have a large group of people willing to hold signs and picket outside of the townhouse in MD.

[KW]

Sine you guys wanted more, her it is. Dave, did you get my email?

From NYT collection department.

"PublishAmerica, LLLC.

We have yet to receive payment for the add you took out in the September issue of our Book Review section. If you do not pay by the end of the week we will be forced to take legal actions in an attempt to regain our money.

Sincerely,

New York Times Collection Department."

Reply from PA.

"Do not take that tone with us. We are the # 1 publishing company in America, just read our author testimony page, and for you to say that we do not pay our bills is libel at best. As for any "legal action", do not make me laugh. There is, nor has there ever been a lawyer.

If you would look into the matter, instead of listening to the handful of disgruntled authors out there, then you would see that the problem was not our fault. We paid by credit card but for some reason, unbeknownst to us, Verisign did not send it through on time. Any more threats like the one stated above will be dealt with legally by our attorneys.

Now, if you have any more evidence then please send it to
support@publishamerica.com
Use this for your sole point of contact as any mail or faxes will be discarded unread. We will take the matter up at our next meting which will be held at our leisure. The presence of your threats and letter will not be known so an unbiased opinion can be made.

For future reference, your letter did not reach its intended recipient.

Support Staff"

Kevin

[priceless1]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>If you would look into the matter, instead of listening to the handful of disgruntled authors out there<hr></blockquote>
Excuse me? Would you be referring to those 9.000 happy authors? Or is it 12,000 happy authors? I lose track.

[James D Macdonald]

Here we go, time for the 30 Day Checkup. The ad in the New York Times Book Review ran on 19 September. How have the lucky ten made out as of 19 October?

<HR>

<table border=2 >
<tr>
<td align=left>Heroes are Hard to Find
by Mike Looney
ISBN: 1413716679
(April 26, 2004)
</td> <td align=left>
</td> <td align=left>
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td align=left>
19SEP04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 1,250,211
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: 271,631
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 1
On order across all warehouses: 1
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 2
Total sales this year: 19
Total sales last year: 0

</td> <td align=left>
29SEP04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 1,203,441
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: 258,382
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 2
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 21
Total sales last year: 0
</td>
<td align=left>
19OCT04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 1,161,794
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: 132,049
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 1
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 1
Total sales this year: 24
Total sales last year: 0
</td> </tr>
<tr>
<td align=left>Four Roses for Sarah
by Gerry Edwards
ISBN: 1413733980
(August 9, 2004)
</td> <td align=left>
</td> <td align=left>
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td align=left>19SEP04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: None
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 0
Total sales last year: 0
</blockquote>

</td> <td align=left>29SEP04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: None
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 0
Total sales last year: 0
</blockquote>

</td> <td align=left>19OCT04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: None
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 2
This week's unadjusted demand: 2
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 0
Total sales last year: 0
</td> </tr>
<tr>
<td align=left>God and Man in Perfect Union
by Joe S. Philip
ISBN: 1413723691
(August 2, 2004)

</td> <td align=left>
</td> <td align=left>
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td align=left>19SEP04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: None
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 0
Total sales last year: 0

</td> <td align=left>29SEP04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: None
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 0
Total sales last year: 0

</td> <td align=left>19OCT04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: None
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 0
Total sales last year: 0
</td> </tr>
<tr>
<td align=left>A Window to the World
by Eunice Boeve
ISBN: 1413732127
(July 26, 2004)
</td> <td align=left>
</td> <td align=left>
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td align=left>19SEP04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: None
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 0
Total sales last year: 0
</blockquote>

</td> <td align=left>29SEP04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 2,733,354
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 0
Total sales last year: 0
</blockquote>

</td> <td align=left>19OCT04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 2,742,965
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 0
Total sales last year: 0
</td> </tr>
<tr>
<td align=left>The Fairy Chronicles Book One
by J.H. Sweet
ISBN: 1413729789
(July 26, 2004)

</td> <td align=left>
</td><td align=left>
</td> </tr>
<tr>
<td align=left>19SEP04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: None
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 0
Total sales last year: 0
</blockquote>

</td> <td align=left>29SEP04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: None
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 0
Total sales last year: 0
</blockquote>

</td> <td align=left>19OCT04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 72,967
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 3
Last week's adjusted demand: 5
Total sales this year: 0
Total sales last year: 0
</td> </tr>
<tr>
<td align=left>By the Water's Edge
by Roger Lee Scott
ISBN: 1413717195
(June 2004)
</td> <td align=left>
</td> <td align=left>
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td align=left>
19SEP04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 2,720,249
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 4
Total sales last year: 0

</td> <td align=left>
29SEP04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 2,733,125
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 4
Total sales last year: 0

</td> <td align=left>
19OCT04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 2,742,721
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 1
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 4
Total sales last year: 0
</td> </tr>
<tr>
<td align=left>A Handsome Guy
by Phillip R. Dolan
ISBN: 1413726372
(July 20, 2004)

</td> <td align=left>
</td> <td align=left>
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td align=left>
19SEP04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: None
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: 79,039
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 9,999
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 2
Total sales this year: 1
Total sales last year: 0
</blockquote>

</td> <td align=left>
29SEP04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: None
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: 63,347
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 4
Total sales last year: 0
</blockquote>

</td><td align=left>
19OCT04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 2,742,900
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: 70,163
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 5
Total sales last year: 0
</td> </tr>
<tr>
<td align=left>Island Of Terror
by Erika Butler
ISBN: 1413721273
(May 17, 2004)

</td> <td align=left>
</td> <td align=left>
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td align=left>
19SEP04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 2,210,901
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: 336,915
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 6
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 4
Total sales last year: 0
</blockquote>

</td> <td align=left>
29SEP04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 2,222,659
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: 350,396
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 2
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 1
Last week's adjusted demand: 3
Total sales this year: 7
Total sales last year: 0
</blockquote>

</td> <td align=left>
19OCT04
Amazon..com Sales Rank: 1,940,353
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: 328,291
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 2
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 8
Total sales last year: 0
</td> </tr>
<tr>
<td align=left>Pacified Zone
by Gary W. Suffern
ISBN: 1413730779
(August 2, 2004)

</td> <td align=left>
</td> <td align=left>
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td align=left>
19SEP04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: None
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 0
Total sales last year: 0
</blockquote>

</td> <td align=left>
29SEP04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: None
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 2
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 0
Total sales last year: 0
</blockquote>

</td><td align=left>
19OCT04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: None
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: 567,066
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 0
Total sales last year: 0
</td> </tr>
<tr>
<td align=left>A Word of Encouragement
by Michael Alford
ISBN: 141373264X
(July 26, 2004)
</td> <td align=left>
</td> <td align=left>
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td align=left>
19SEP04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: None
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 0
Total sales last year: 0

</td> <td align=left>
29SEP04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: None
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: 92,963
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 0
Total sales last year: 0

</td><td align=left>
19OCT04
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 2,742,970
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: 79,127
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 0
Total sales last year: 0
</td> </tr>

</table>

[KW]

They say 12,000 now but I'm afraid that with their "partnership" with fanstory.com that number will jump up a few more thousand in a year. It's a sad world I tell you.

Kevin

[ncq13]

Apparently, there is coupe on the PA boards. There is a group of individuals searching the net and looking up "negative" information posted about PA. This group plans to "report" all of the individuals that are "wrongfully" speaking against PA.
To this group I say, "Read each post carefully and I hope you learn something. You have more of a chance of getting published by 'The Big Five' than you do of getting your PA book on a bookstore shelf without having to do so on consignment."

[absolutewrite]

I messed up and forgot to close the CALL TO ACTION thread and people responded to it. I'm not trying to discourage comments, but just want to keep that thread clean so people can look there for weekly targets. So, I'm going to try to paste the responses here:


From Raki:

A few considerations
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Has it occured to anybody that this kind of action might end up harming most PA-published authors?

Has anybody considered that PA may be filling a gap, for writers who don't stand a chance of getting published by the traditional publishers?

When I read the PA Website for the first time, I had no illusions that getting published by them would yield me a best-seller. Without quibbling over words, and without knowing much about publishing in general, it was pretty obvious to me that PA was not a traditional type of publisher.

Why not accept that PA specialises in publishing unpublished authors, and to do so it takes shortcuts which traditional publishers do not take? Why not accept the fact that it fills a gap in the publishing market?

Oh of course now that I see my book in print I wish it could be a best-seller, but there is such a thing as cold reality.

If PA cancelled my contract tomorrow where would I be? Back to being unpublished, with practically nil chance of ever seeing my book in print...

If you want to get rid of PA, first you need to offer a viable alternative, not castles in the air.

---
JohannaJ7
New friend
Posts: 45
(10/19/04 12:13 pm)

Reply | Edit | Del Re: A few considerations
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Raki, this is not an attempt to destroy PA, this is a way of exposing their lies so that they are forced to actually be honest with their authors instead of lying to them about being traditional, and not just another author mill.

And you should be aware of the fact that despite what PA says, you are still pretty much unpublished. No respectable agent, editor or publisher will consider PA books "real" books. So PA does NOT offer publishing to unpublished authors, it offers printing and a lot of lies.

But I don't think thread is the place for this discussion. You can go to p197.ezboard.com/fabsolut...=1&stop=20 for all your PA info needs.

---
ncq13
Board regular
Posts: 77
(10/19/04 12:14 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: A few considerations
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First of all, this should probably be moved to the other board, but I'll bite anyway...


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Has it occurred to anybody that this kind of action might end up harming most PA-published authors?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Actually, it will HELP them. Either PA will be forced to change its policies, or they will shut down and authors will get a second chance at a REAL publisher that will get their books on shelves.


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Has anybody considered that PA may be filling a gap, for writers who don't stand a chance of getting published by the traditional publishers?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The key for ANY author is to work, rework, and rework again. St.Martin's isn't going to bang down my door anytime soon, but I would rather get my rights back and bust my tail on my manuscript than let PA take it an ruin my career before it starts.


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why not accept that PA specializes in publishing unpublished authors, and to do so it takes shortcuts which traditional publishers do not take? Why not accept the fact that it fills a gap in the publishing market?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No, it doesn't fill a "gap," there are plenty of other vanity publishers who will at least market for authors. Instead, PA encourages new authors, who may have a chance if they work hard enough to: settle for less than they are capable of doing, spend their hard earned money on their own books to hock street corners, pay for editing.


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh of course now that I see my book in print I wish it could be a best-seller, but there is such a thing as cold reality.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Don't sell yourself or other PA authors short. There is a lot of raw talent at PA. In fact, I like to consider myself as part of that talent pool. Right now I am working hard at creating something I can be proud of-- something I can actually see on bookshelves (not on consignment).


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If PA canceled my contract tomorrow where would I be? Back to being unpublished, with practically nil chance of ever seeing my book in print...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Don't buy in to the hype. I am pushing to get out of my contract, and you know what? Even though I won't be "published" I feel more like an author! I also know that over the next year I will be working my tail off to get published by a publisher who will get my book out! And don't be fooled about all of the "we are a small publisher and shelf space is political" garbage. Behler publications is doing well and they are small. They may have to fight for shelf space, but the key is BEHLER is doing the work, not authors. Give Behler five years and I bet they'll have a best seller or two under their belts.


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you want to get rid of PA, first you need to offer a viable alternative, not castles in the air.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



There are plenty of other alternatives, but you have to be willing to work a little harder and have a little patience. You also need to have the courage to listen to the advice of other authors so that you can get your chops up and get published elsewhere. Have a little faith, first time authors get published by reputable publishers everyday.

----
AC Crispin
New friend
Posts: 46
(10/19/04 1:39 pm)

Reply | Edit | Del Writer Beware heeds the call
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My email to Asa Aarons went out about 20 minutes ago.

Let's hope we see some results from this.

Thanks for doing this, Jenna.

-Ann C. Crispin

[JohannaJ7]

They say 12,000 now but I'm afraid that with their "partnership" with fanstory.com that number will jump up a few more thousand in a year. It's a sad world I tell you.
Definately. And from checking out Fanstory a couple of times now, I'm struck by how much they're like the PA message-board crowd. I guess that's why PA targeted them in the first place. The writing is so-so and a bit uncertain in most cases, and the writers are quite naive about how professional writing and publishing works. Just the kind of writer PA likes.

I also read the PA discussion on their board, and I think it's quite tragic how deluded some of those writers are. They don't seem to realise that a lot of people in the writing business loathe PA and that it will rub off on Fanstory, no matter how much they "edit" and "promote" on their own.

[ncq13]

I just sent one as well. I certainly hope everyone pitches in to take action!

[AnneMarble]

Definately. And from checking out Fanstory a couple of times now, I'm struck by how much they're like the PA message-board crowd. I guess that's why PA targeted them in the first place. The writing is so-so and a bit uncertain in most cases, and the writers are quite naive about how professional writing and publishing works. Just the kind of writer PA likes.

I wonder if that's bceause they have a rule that no links to other writing sites can be posted on their boards? While I understand that they wouldn't want to lose people to other critique groups, there are a lot of great, informative sites their members might not be aware of. Not just Writer Beware type sites, but sites with market information (Ralan's site!), research sites, article sites, etc. Not allowing links to that can keep writers from knowing what's a publishing myth and what's not.

OTOH maybe that rule is indicative of how different they are than many other writing communities. Most of the other writing communities I've belonged to are great resources for links to other sites. I don't know. :shrug

[FM St George]

I would venture that there are a lot of writing communities like Fanstory - introverted in a way where they don't encourage their members to go to other sources for information. It's not necessarily a Bad Thing; they just want to keep their members close to home and keep them active in their bit of the Net and not lose them to other communities.

the problem with this, obviously, is that they are prime pickings for PA and Co. - the majority of PA authors, from what I've seen, have little if any internet experience other than discovering the PA website and snuggling into it like a termite into a rotten piece of wood. They don't have much skill in the way of search engines or web design or the basics of writing other than being told "you're fantastic!" by friends or family and are thus plucked off by PA or other vanity publishers.

I visit a plethora of writing boards every day and see a lot of the same names - and know that those are informed writers who are expanding their craft; not just sitting with their online buds exchanging platitudes about how great they are.

time for tea, methinks...

[winniemitzandme]

I can't believe it! I am so happy! I just got the email from PA that I have hopped to get, and that is to tell me they are releasing me from my contract on my book Death by Bad Magic.

Isn't that great? I've already addressed to them my feelings on that part of the gag order being added to it, and I must believe that they will not have that in it. They said I should be receiving my papers shortly.

Great news, don't you think?

Violet

[ProandCon]

"Definately. And from checking out Fanstory a couple of times now, I'm struck by how much they're like the PA message-board crowd. I guess that's why PA targeted them in the first place. The writing is so-so and a bit uncertain in most cases, and the writers are quite naive about how professional writing and publishing works. Just the kind of writer PA likes."

Now another writers website is being attacked by some of you guys. Why don't you post a story to Fanstory to be critiqued, JohannaJ7 to see what you have talentwise that allows you to make your statement.

I see Mr. Kuminski has been busy doing his puppetmaster routine with the posters here. He suggests little things to do and you guys fall all over it. My hat is off to your power of persuasion, Mr. Kuminski. I need to learn that neat little trick to control my herd better out on the farm.

Mr. McDonald,

I haven't had a chance yet to get your book because the bus line doesn't go by the bookstore. I thought I would wait and catch a ride to the bookstore with one of the pickets. Are you coming? NCQ13 needs some help. Ms. Powers, you coming?

Hey Hapisofi. I still.... love you because I'm a democrat.

[DeePower]

Jenna please email me at
mailto:authors@brianhillanddeepower.com


Thanks
Dee

[NancyMehl]

Violet,

I am soooooo happy for you! Way to go!

Nancy

[ncq13]

Woo HOOO! Congrats Violet!

[Risseybug]

What someone needs to do (<cough> Jim <cough>) is to get another first time author from another publishing house, big OR small (perhaps one of each) and post comparative numbers from the same time frame. I'd be interested to see how books from first time authors (who NEVER get published by other publishers, dontcha know) stack up against PA's "Top Ten". That would at least be evidence of a scientific nature regarding what PA's about.
I'd do it if I knew how. I have forgotten how Jim said he looks that stuff up.

And as for FanStory... I'm not really familiar with them, but I fear for them anyway. I've been a member of other critique groups (before you even go there, ProandCon) and gotten great feedback. Feedback which helped polish my ms into something that real, albeit small, publishers (note:p lural) asked to look at.

I hope some of them take the initiative to do the research on their own.

[KW]

"We still have yet to receive payment for the ad your took out in our Sept. issue of our book review section. Since all our emails, letters, and phone calls have gone unanswered we are sending you to a collection agency and have notified our attorneys.

NYT collection department."

"As I have said before, do not take that tone with us. We are the fastest growing publishing house in America and we strive to, at no cost to the author, to make PublishAmerica a household name. Your threats are laughable and as to your arguments? We will not stoop to contradict your arguments, as they may not even credibly be called arguments.

Your letter was so unprofessional and nonsensical, that we were instructed to simply ignore it. Per paragraph 24 we are releasing you of your contract. All remaining stock of your book will be sold, without any royalties paid to you, and you are to refrain from speaking about PublishAmerica in any forum.

Support@publishamerica

Kevin

[James D Macdonald]

Okay, Risseybug, here ya go:

The book is The Food of Love (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0670033227/madhousemanor) by Anthony Capella. It's a first novel; Mr. Capella isn't a celebrity of any sort. The book was published in July of '04 in trade paperback by Viking. I chose mid-summer because most of the PA Bestsellers were published in mid-summer. The publisher and the book were chosen entirely at random. Anyone who wishes to repeat the experiment can get the Ingram numbers by calling (615) 213-6803 with the ISBN.

19OCT04

Amazon.com Sales Rank: 12,119
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: 8,327

Ingram's Stock Information:
<Blockquote> On hand across all warehouses: 1,288

On order across all warehouses: 0

On backorder across all warehouses: 0

This week's unadjusted demand: 3

Last week's adjusted demand: 7

Total sales this year: 1,457

Total sales last year: 0</Blockquote>

That's perfectly on track to be a nice midlist book, with maybe 5,000 to 10,000 sold before it goes out of print. I wish Mr. Capella a long and happy writing career.

[winniemitzandme]

Thanks Nancy and others. This is me after receiving that email from PA :jump .

Namcy, did you get that email from me? :hail . If not let me know and I'll resend it. :head .
Violet

[James D Macdonald]

Yo, ProandCon, you still haven't told me the name of your book. I'll be happy to buy a copy.

[Ed Williams 3]

...waiting for a reply to that one, Jim.

:shrug

[AnneMarble]

Now another writers website is being attacked by some of you guys. Why don't you post a story to Fanstory to be critiqued, JohannaJ7 to see what you have talentwise that allows you to make your statement.

I definitely don't see what is being said here as an attack. I've belonged to a few writing groups. Even in the best groups, the quality of writing varies widely. That's the point of getting critiques, isn't it? ;)

The best writing groups, however, also have people on board who know something about publishing, whether they're published or not. I know this because they've saved me from making some huge mistakes. :hail

For example, in one critique group, someone sent me a "critique" offering to publish the story in his e-zine. He told me I would only lose my "electronic rights" or something like that. (No mention made of pay, which is why I hesitated.) When I contacted the owner of the group about that, he pointed out that if I gave that guy the story, I'd lose my first rights.

Not all writing sites are managed by people who know about rights; copyrights; publishing; etc. I know that at some sites, if I had said an e-zine offered to publish my story and that the publisher had said I wouldn't lose my electronic rights, everyone would say "Anne, that's great!!!" But sometimes, what's needed is "Anne, look out."

Sure, a writing style can still be helpful and supportive even if the people there don't know Yog's law, etc. But if you never go to any other site, you won't learn the warning signs of scam agents, you might sign a bad contract because you didn't know any better, you might trust the B.S. put out by a shady publisher.

[FM St George]

Violet, did you just sign the papers without changing them?

I have mine, but am loathe to sign and send them back due to the clause about keeping shut about PA's policies and, frankly, the evidence that they'll keep selling my books and keeping the royalties ( pittance that they are...)

[winniemitzandme]

I haven't received the papers yet, only the email telling me they PA will release Death by Bad Magic from contract. I'll let you know when the papers arrive and if it has the 'gag order', which by the way, I have already spoken my not wanting that in the release papers, long before PA sent this email telling me I would be realesed.

Violet

[ProandCon]

Mr. McDonald,

Well, I'd hate to corrupt or tempt you. My book is pretty hot with some scenes that you might read twice just for the fun of it.

It might lead you to divorcing your wife and trying to find a woman like some of the women characters in my book. Then you would be saying dang I wish I hadn't read that book.

No, I better protect you from my book. You seem like a decent and fair person who just enjoys getting people to put up or shut up.

Then again, it might spice up your marriage.

[Risseybug]

Thanks, Jim. Would that those numbers from someone published by a real traditional publisher open some eyes.
Hmmm. 14 copies, compared to over 1,400?

I'd say that's a good enough reason to NOT go to PA for publishing. :)

[priceless1]

Violet, major congratulations to you. <img border=0 src="http://www.absolutewrite.com/images/Emotesnoopy.gif" /> I'm thrilled for your success and know that your writing career will take off to new heights. I must caution you that PA has offered to release people from their contracts before and the authors are still waiting for the final paperwork. Or they get the final paperwork, sign it, and discover PA is still selling their book.

No way do I want to burst your bubble, but I do want you be careful. With these guys, it's hardly ever a case of just being over.

[DaveKuzminski]

Look deeply into my eyes, ProandCon. You will sell James Macdonald a copy of your book by telling him which title to purchase. :wha

[Ed Williams 3]

...we'll know your nickname is a lie if you reveal your real name. By the way, how's the weather in Frederick these days?

:ha

[winniemitzandme]

Thanks Lynn.
Yes, so I have read of some authors who's books are still being sold who were suppose to be released from PA.

I will take my time and work with PA in resolving this issue of books being sold after the book has been released from contract. I must have faith and believe that things will work out for me on this, and that PA and I can part company without any ill will between us.

But then again, PA and I really won't part company since they will still have my first book with them. They can keep that one.

Violet

[lindylou45]

Here we go, time for the 30 Day Checkup. The ad in the New York Times Book Review ran on 19 September. How have the lucky ten made out as of 19 October?

You are a godsend! Thank you so much for all of your hard work in helping us out.

:hail

[lindylou45]

I just sent one as well.

I've sent one too.

[Beth Bernobich]

This thread moves so fast... :)

Anyway, harking back to an earlier post.

I wonder if that's bceause they have a rule that no links to other writing sites can be posted on their boards?

They say they will allow links to the outside if you ask permission first, but not in all cases. Also, if you simply refer to another site by name, and not URL, they will delete the post. I know because I joined up last week just to see how the workshop looked from the inside. My post talking about Teresa Nielsen Hayden's Slushkiller post on her Making Light blog vanished within an hour.

(I later posted an excerpt from the post, and so far, that has survived.)

[James D Macdonald]

Those of you who haven't read <a href="http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004641.html" target="_new">Slushkiller</a>, take the time now to do so.

[ncq13]

I haven't had a chance yet to get your book because the bus line doesn't go by the bookstore. I thought I would wait and catch a ride to the bookstore with one of the pickets. Are you coming? %%WORD23% needs some help. Ms. Powers, you coming?

Have no fear P&C. Should things escalate to a full media blitz and picketing; I won't be alone. There are plenty of authors who still haven't received their royalty statement from August, correct royalties based on sales they KNOW were completed, a properly edited MS, etc. Double check your royalty statement (if you received one) you may want to join us...:snoopy

[BeckEaston]

Authors who are accepting the terms of PA's legal document that has a disclosure about what can be said about them as well as has been "released" via Paragraph 24 of their contract are being turned down for legal government representation. Keep that in mind when you decide whether or not to accept PA's terms. According to my source, the Maryland Attorney General and the BBB has all but void all claims by "released authors."

:smack

Old Information:
State Of Maryland
Office of the Attorney General
Consumer Protection Division-Mr. Larry E Munson
138 East Antietam Street, Suite 210
Hagerstown, Maryland 21740-5684

Ann's New Information:
Office of the Attorney General
Consumer Protection Division-Beth Silverman
200 St. Paul Place
Baltimore, MD 21202

[JohannaJ7]

Now another writers website is being attacked by some of you guys. Why don't you post a story to Fanstory to be critiqued, JohannaJ7 to see what you have talentwise that allows you to make your statement. Huh? What did I do now? I said the writing was, in most cases, so-so and a bit uncertain. It is. That doesn't mean it's bad, it's just not up to publishing standards yet. Second, I want to publish books, not write them. Even if I did write a book, it would not be posted on the interenet -- it would be sold to a publisher. And if I did decide to put a book on the net, it would not be on a site that is partnering with PA.

Don't be so over-sensitive. I didn't even mention names, or any stories I looked at. And if those writers are putting their stuff there for all to see, I'm pretty sure they are prepared to take a bit of critisism (isn't that what the site is for, anyway?)

And please call me Johanna -- I only chose JohannaJ7 as my ezboard-name because "Dave's Naked Sockpuppet" was taken.

[BeckEaston]

Joanna are you a publisher? Now, I'm confused.

[aka eraser]

I have a hunch Johanna meant she doesn't want to just write books; she wants to have them published too.

And Johanna, don't let P&C get under your skin. He likes to stir the pot and doesn't much care in what direction. He doesn't put up and he doesn't shut up.

[James D Macdonald]

According to my source, the Maryland Attorney General and the BBB has all but void all claims by "released authors."

Don't sign anything from PA until you've had it checked over by a lawyer familiar with publishing contracts.

(If you'd done that ahead of time you wouldn't be in this trouble now, would you?)

Remember: PublishAmerica doesn't mean you well and isn't doing you any favors.

<HR>

Elsewhere, the question has arisen, "Could someone explain to me how consignment works?"

Here's the deal: You buy your own books. Then you get a bookstore to agree to put them on the shelf. Any books that sell, the bookstore takes a cut. Any that don't sell, you take back.

So: You pay for your own books. Then you pay someone else to sell 'em. The best that can be said for it is, it's better than nothing.

Watch the bottom line: If you sell five dollar bills for four dollars each, you won't make any money no matter how many you sell.

[JohannaJ7]

Joanna are you a publisher? Now, I'm confused. No, but hopefully I will be one day. :)

I just need the money and the minions first. ;)

[ProandCon]

"And Johanna, don't let P&C get under your skin. He likes to stir the pot and doesn't much care in what direction. He doesn't put up and he doesn't shut up."

Aka,

You're right. I like to stir things up and which way depends on what I'm reading. I usually respond to posts that seem to attack other writers.

An exception was NCQ13's post. It was always enjoyable when that pretty lady came on the PA boards. I remember when she came on the PA board full of excitement and then she found this site. Now, booted and ready to fight. Go girl!
I was trying to get what I call the Big Three to go picket with her and put their money where their mouth is. Talking about me stirring the pot?

I might go too if the Big Three will take action instead of producing a lot of talk. You are not too far behind them. Maybe you can stop fishing long enough to pick up a picket sign.

Aka, you should stop making jokes about me even though it was a half decent joke and get back to writing that column but please don't add any jokes because they will fire you for impersonating a comic.

Oh, I'm a fisherman too but I fish for

[absolutewrite]

The suspense is killing me! What do you fish for, ProandCon? I feel like that I'm at that part in a TV show where they do the cliffhanger ending and I shout, "Nooooo!"

[Sher2]

I remember when she came on the PA board full of excitement and then she found this site. Now, booted and ready to fight. Go girl!
I was trying to get what I call the Big Three to go picket with her and put their money where their mouth is.

Everybody comes on the PA boards full of excitement in their naivete. For many, it's short-lived. Finding this site was a stroke of good luck on her part; mine, too. I already knew what deep doo-doo I'd stepped in before I found this site, but I sure do wish I'd found it before I landed in the stinky stuff.

The Big Three? Are those the ones being turned over to Torquemada?

[ncq13]

An exception was %%WORD2%'s post. It was always enjoyable when that pretty lady came on the PA boards. I remember when she came on the PA board full of excitement and then she found this site. Now, booted and ready to fight. Go girl!

Awwww. Since you think so highly of me, care to have me review your book? I must solve the, "Who is P&C?" mystery.
...I promise to wear my "objective reviewer" hat instead of my "Xena" outfit, and do a fair review...
:peace

[James D Macdonald]

I might go too if the Big Three will take action instead of producing a lot of talk.

Tell you what, ProandCon, drop me a note with your real name, and we'll talk. Maybe even about action that's happening where you can't see it.

Your secret will be safe with me. More than a few PA authors have found that out for themselves, but I'm afraid I can't tell you who. Y'know, their secrets are safe with me too.

[AC Crispin]

Who are The Big Three?

I'm curious.

-Ann C. Crispin

[James D Macdonald]

Who are The Big Three?

It's got to be you, Dave, and Victoria, Ann.

Yo, ProandCon -- even if you haven't gotten a copy of any of my books (sniff, sniff), have you picked up your copy of <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0809325756/ref=nosim/madhousemanor" target="_new">Ten Percent of Nothing</a> yet? It's probably not in your local bookstore anyway, so ordering it from Amazon is reasonable. (It's discounted by 34% if you want it new, or a used copy is available for under ten bucks.) You'll like the part where Dorothy Deering goes to the Federal slammer, and I'm sure you'll recognize some of the names who helped put her there.

[JohannaJ7]

s7.invisionfree.com/SaraP...owtopic=92 (http://s7.invisionfree.com/SaraPriceBooks/index.php?showtopic=92)

I'm kind of surprised they banned her, she's always come off as rather positive on the PA board.

[DaveKuzminski]

Unless James Macdonald was given a title by ProandCon, it appears that ProandCon was wrong about me possessing any power of persuasion. Besides, if I did hold that kind of power, I would have long ago used it to persuade PublishAmerica to clean up their act.

I must admit, ProandCon, it was a devious attempt on your part to stir up conflict among those who participate in this board by alluding to me as a mystic with power over others. Nice touch, too, on the ranch bit hinting that the others were equivalent to cattle.

Just so others know what I'm referring to, here's a quote from you: "I see Mr. Kuminski has been busy doing his puppetmaster routine with the posters here. He suggests little things to do and you guys fall all over it. My hat is off to your power of persuasion, Mr. Kuminski. I need to learn that neat little trick to control my herd better out on the farm."

[DeePower]

just capitalize the P in power, whenever you use that word and not add the "s".

Dee
not a Piss Ass Author

[Whachawant]

ncq13,

YOU HAVE A XENA OUTFIT?....................:jaw




K...back on topic...

[ProandCon]

"I'm kind of surprised they banned her, she's always come off as rather positive on the PA board."

I'm not surprised. They will boot you in a heartbeat if they think you went negative on them. They tolerate some authors more than others. It seems they use a size 12 boot in the a** to dump the authors with who get frantic in their messages. First, the PA eyes probably read the frantic author's email, laugh about the author crying in their beer and then take bets on how fast the desperate author is going to post their concerns on the board.

The authors post their legit greivances and then the boot comes out and kicks them so fast they don't know what happened.

PA creates this d*** adversary way with their authors by setting them up by not answering the author's emails and by not posting rules for the board. Most authors don't realize they can't speak their minds or ask questions about legit concerns on the public board.

Hey PA Eye, are you reading this? Sure you are.

You are the one who is making so many PA authors mad by putting the boot in their a** for asking legit questions and by not treating them fairly. There is no doubt that you would have fewer authors if you put that your books are around $5.00 higher than most other similar published books and the author's book will not be accepted in most bookstores in your contracts where the author can easily read this information. You are misleading people even if the PA cheerleaders choose to ignore these important deliberately omitted facts.

Newbie authors, be very wary of PA because they will chew you up and then spit you out while saying next newbie author please as they smile. Watch out for the big "Boot"

Dave, are you trying to twist my words? By the way, when you start calling me Mr. ProandCon I will resume calling you Mr. Kuminski. I wasn't referring to the authors here. There was a meaning behind it but not that. I would like to see you quit being a sideline quarterback and grab that picket sign. NCQ13 and others need your help.

By the way, I noticed on a few of your posts that you actually have a good sense of humor. Maybe you can give Aka eraser a few lessons. I'm sure he would appreciate the help before they fire him for bad jokes.

Oh, I'm sorry Ms. Power. I would never think of you in those terms. We all have a bad day sometimes. Cheer up and try doing what I do by saying "Today, I will be a better writer". I hope you don't mind the tip but I hate to see you beat yourself up. I seem to have a hard time spelling your name. I added the "S" and I didn't capitilize the "P". Shoot me for the mistake. Please, be kind to yourself.

Time to go fishing

Hey Jenna. You are a pretty cool board moderator and I've got to respect your efforts to make PA clean up their act or get out of the business.

[AC Crispin]

(sarcasm mode ON)

Does the IRS tell?

Does the FBI tell?

Does the CIA tell?

Does NSA tell?

NO.

And neither does Writer Beware, Mr. ProandCon. So quit making assumptions, because we both know what happens when you ASSUME, right?

Just because you can't see into my head, or Victoria's, you ASSUME we are doing nothing about Publish America, ST, American Book Publishing, Cris Robins, or any of the other scuzzballs we warn about? You are indeed making a long-eared quadruped out of yourself.

You can kiss my pretty pink long-eared quadruped, Mr. ProandCon. Be the biggest thrill YOU ever had.

(sniff)

We Are Not Amused.

-Ann C. Crispin

(sarcasm mode OFF)

[Gravity]

I don't get it...is Proand Con a PA employee or not?

[BeckEaston]

I am calling all authors to help me in the fight for justice. I am compiling a letter to call for immediate investigation into Publish America to the attorney General in Maryland. I need for everyone who wants to take a stand against the misleading facts that Publish America markets to sign this petition. I appreciate that our fight has been difficult, but it has come to my attention that the reason that we have been ignored this far is because neither Publish America or the legal assistance believe that we are in greater numbers than the "handful of disgruntled authors" that PA refutes with. Add your name privately at (RebeccaEaston@Comcast.net) I am gathering the information to send to PA. I respectfully ask you not to post any names that you might see on this petition or the content of this petition on this Writers.net, Mindsighseries.com or this web site. Some people are under a Gag order and cannot be exposed. If you fall in this category you can also list your name to rebut PA claims by putting (Gag) next to your name. You cannot disclose, but you can refute testimony that PA has "few" mislead authors. The less PA knows about my actions at this point the better for all of us.

I thank you for your time and the courage it takes to seek justice!

[James D Macdonald]

I am gathering the information to send to PA.

Why bother sending it to PA? They'll ignore it, and laugh at you. Talk to counsel. PA's first notice of what's afoot should be when the process server knocks on their door.

Sustain yourself in the meantime with happy thoughts of seeing Willem, Larry, and Miranda being led out of the townhouse in handcuffs on national TV. They can put that in their "Up In Lights" section.

Personally, I don't think the gag order is enforceable, but I'm not a lawyer. Talk with someone who is.

When the subpoenas come down, ISPs will give up anyone. Meanwhile, though we all have our suspicions, it's idle to speculate about who is a PA employee or owner posting on these and other boards.

[BeckEaston]

I am gathering the information to send to PA.

Why bother sending it to PA? They'll ignore it, and laugh at you.

Send it to me, add your name to the petition. Information above. Check it out.

:clap

[ProandCon]

"I don't get it...is Proand Con a PA employee or not?"


Let me state once again as I have before in past posts.

I am not a PA employee or owner. Don't you guys read?

Okay, I know some of you use your magnifying glass sideways to analyze every word.

I am a PA author.

For those of you who request I say who I am, that doesn't make much sense. Sounds like suicide to me.

I talk about both sides when the need arises. Some of you are a little mean spirited and we already know about PA.

Ann and Mr. McDonald, you guys are funny! Aka Eraser has some competition on this board.

It's good to see people getting cranked up to win the big one.

[BeckEaston]

I am calling all authors to help me in the fight for justice. I am compiling a letter to call for immediate investigation into Publish America to the attorney General in Maryland. I need for everyone who wants to take a stand against the misleading facts that Publish America markets to sign this petition. I appreciate that our fight has been difficult, but it has come to my attention that the reason that we have been ignored this far is because neither Publish America or the legal assistance believe that we are in greater numbers than the "handful of disgruntled authors" that PA refutes with. Add your name privately at (RebeccaEaston@Comcast.net) I am gathering the information to send to PA. I respectfully ask you not to post any names that you might see on this petition or the content of this petition on this Writers.net, Mindsighseries.com or this web site. Some people are under a Gag order and cannot be exposed. If you fall in this category you can also list your name to rebut PA claims by putting (Gag) next to your name. You cannot disclose, but you can refute testimony that PA has "few" mislead authors. The less PA knows about my actions at this point the better for all of us.

I thank you for your time and the courage it takes to seek justice!

[aka eraser]

<eraser rises briefly to inspect the bait, sniffs disdainfully, and re-settles into a comfortable torpor, awaiting a truly Pro angler>

[SimonSays]

I don't understand why so many of you appear to have a problem with ProandCon.

He regularly acknowledges the bad things about PA. Just because he does not see them as Satan, does not mean he is their cheerleader or employee. He's merely a realisist. He sees the bad, but he also has a healthy perspective.

He's a PA author who has not cast himself in the role of victim. He has taken responsiblity for his own decisions.

He should be commended, not attacked.

[KW]

I don't understand why so many of you appear to have a problem with ProandCon.

I don't, and I won't. I don't care if he is a PA employee, owner, cheerleader, or a hidden fan. He/she has a right to their opinion and I won't bash anyone for it. The thing that did get me though was that he/she said that we should do something instead of just talk, well, just because you don't see anything doesn't mean we aren't doing something. I know of a few people that are taking matters into their own hands, but are not saying anything about it on the boards. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there, we just don't want to tip our hats to PA before the time is right.

I know you weren't saying this to me, I just wanted to show where I stand.

Kevin

[KW]

it was pretty obvious to me that PA was not a traditional type of publisher.

Raki, I don't know if this will come as a shock to you or not but most people who have problems with PA have problems not because PA didn't make them best selling authors, there are many other problems. And you say you looked at PA's website and it was obvious they were not a traditional publisher? How did you do that when they claim over and over, on their website, that they are a traditional publisher? Are we suppose to look at their website, ignore all the places where they claim to be traditional, and make a decision from that? Wouldn't that be misleading info? Wouldn't them saying that they get our books into all bookstores, but they don't, be false hope?

there is such a thing as cold reality.

Yeah there is and you will learn something soon enough that PA is not what they claim to be. Cold reality will hit you then and it will be really cold.

Has it occured to anybody that this kind of action might end up harming most PA-published authors?

Has it occurred to you that having your book in print, not being able to get it in bookstores or reviewed, might be harming your book? PA will have your book 7 years, what would you do if a real publisher wanted it, wanted to stock it in all bookstores, get you reviewed but you can't because PA has it? Your book could find a real audience but since it is with PA it won't. That is more harmful to me.

Kevin

[SimonSays]

KW -

The fact that there are so many places on their website where they claim to be a traditional publisher, is in itself a huge warning sign.

Check out the websites of any traditional publisher. There sites are geared to the CONSUMER, not the authors.

They are trying to promote their titles, not their publishing services. Because their major goal is to sell books to the general public. Any publisher whose main focus is to promote themselves to authors, is not a traditional publisher.

Even small independent publishers who accept unsolicited materials and have a link to their submission policy, do not dedicate their sites to selling themselves to authors, it's about the books!

If it says it's a duck but it walks like cow, it ain't a duck.

[BeckEaston]

I wish that it were but there are outlines about what is "considered" to be traditional and non-traditional publishing. The fact that new authors believe there are no guidlines to what those things are is tantamount to buying into PA lies. It's simply not true.

www.sfwa.org/beware/printondemand.html (http://www.sfwa.org/beware/printondemand.html)

The question does not stop with that one aspect of the blatent mistruth that PA markets, it is in the way they conduct business. Period. It's the abusive business practices, sub standard book quality, outragous industry pricing, horrific editing content, % of returned rates so low that major booksellers will not even stock their products, foul language in respect to communicating with authors...and the list goes on and on ending with selling your book for their profit once you're released. Let's stay on that issue. That's what is important.

[SimonSays]

Yes the things you listed are important and they suck, but in themselves, they are not illegal.

Companies can treat their customers how they see fit - like the "Soup Nazi" on Seinfeld. He's rude and abusive, but it's his store. If he doesn't like the way you order, he doesn't have to serve you.

If they breach their contract, or use false advertising, that is a legal issue.

I admire you, you got yourself in a bad situation, saw it was a bad situation and have taken action to get yourself out of it and let others know what happened to you - which will hopefully keep others from making the same mistake.

But the fact is, that if you knew then, what you know now, and not just about what PA does or doesn't do, but also about standard industry return policies and pricing policies, etc., you would never have signed with PA. And when you came across a publishing company that promoted its publishing services to authors instead of its books to readers, it would have made you think twice.

Best of luck to you, Beck.

[BeckEaston]

Yes the things you listed are important and they suck, but in themselves, they are not illegal.

Simon, I respect what you say, but I just breathe heavily when I hear people say that broken promises made are not "illegal." Yes it is. Period. Unfortunately everything I mentioned goes against the very fabric of how industries do business. The plain fact is that it does not matter if you were a car dealership or a dry cleaner, we as consumers have the right to believe that the marketing is factual and that the services contracted for will be rendered. It's common economics 101. :head

Authors who believe they're just angry about the foul language, angry about being banned from company communication or angry about being treated poorly think they don't have a legal case. According to my attorney, (I have been through a lot this year) as well as others, this information is false. You don't know what you have until you seek legal council. There's a web site for free advice if authors need it. www.freelegaladvice.com.

Don't give up your right just because you didn't know you had any!

[James D Macdonald]

If they breach their contract, or use false advertising, that is a legal issue.

They use false advertising. This much is plain. Their contract is deceptive. This too is plain. That they may be manufacturing and selling books to which they have no rights -- that remains to be proved.

Publisher's Clearing House (http://www.arentfox.com/quickGuide/businessLines/sweeps/contestsSweepstakes/sweepsRelatedArticles/ra2001-08-13contest3/ra2001-08-13contest3.html) went down. So too may PublishAmerica, and for similar cause.

[SimonSays]

Actually whether or not breaking of a promise is illegal, depends upon the cirucmstances of the promise.

I can give my word to you today, change my mind tomorrow and I am not legally libel for anything. If we had a written contract, and I decided not to live up to the terms of the contract, well that's obviously a different matter entirely. I am not familiar with the PA contract, so I have no idea if they breached it or not. I do know that it is the agreements detailed in a contract, not what's in the advertising, that binds the two parties.

If a car dealership claims in their advertising to "have the best service in town" but the specific details of the service contract, outline what they offer, and it is not in fact the best service in town, but you sign the contract, then you have agreed to accept what they offer, whether it's the best in town or not.

As long as they provide what the contract says they do, then they may be guilty of false advertising, but they did live up to the terms of their contract, which I would assume one would read before signing.

Our options as consumers is to not do business with companies who's business practices we do not like. Our responsibility to ourselves is to be educated consumers.

Again, Beck I wish you all the best.

[KW]

a car dealership claims in their advertising to "have the best service in town"

Actually, this is unethical conduct which is illegal. People are being help accountable for the information that they are putting on their websites and in advertisments. A car dealership around here is being sued by the AG for false advertising and not holding up to what they say they would do. Here is some things about unethical conduct.

Unethical conduct

"The obtaining of any fee or the making of any sale by fraud or misrepresentation;" Their website is full of lies to get authors to sign on the dotted line. They are selling books they have no rights to. They claimed that they had "partnered" with the NYT and if the authors bought their books then they would be featured in it. You didn't find out what the "partnership" was until after the deadline and you paid the money. That is misrepresentation. Lie by omission. Deceptive practice. False hope.

"Using, causing, or promoting the use of any advertising material, promotional literature, testimonial, guarantee, warranty, label, brand, insignia, or any other representation, however disseminated or published, which is false, misleading, deceptive or untruthful;" Again, their website and what AST tells you. Not to mention their little authorsmarket website.

"Advertising professional superiority" They claim to be the number one publisher, that they have the highest return rate among authors, etc.

They say that our books will be available in all bookstores nationwide. We know this is not true, it is false promises.

We seen them put up that fake info about copyrights and how other publishers won't let you keep them if you write in a certain genre. We also seen them pull it down quickly after people started talking about it. False information.

This is just their website. Now, let's get into their contract and if they breeched any or not.

They claim that they promote, but to the publishers extent. If they didn't promote at all then why put this in there? It is to confuse authors and make them think that they will get some promotion.

They claim that if your book needs editing that they will do it at no cost to the author. Well, if you seen a PA book then you would know they don't edit.

They claim that any situations that arise will be taken care of with the Arbitration board. Well, we have seen them stop printing books by authors that cause too many problems, so they are not going by this clause.

So Simon, make up your own mind here. I learned from my mistakes and I have vowed to let new authors know the truth about PA.

Kevin

[SimonSays]

KW -

I agree that PA uses falses advertising. And I agree it's illegal and the legal consequences for those who advertise falselyare usually that they are forced to cease the false advertising and pay a fine.

However false advertising and breaching contracts are two separate and distinct issues. If PA makes the same claims in its contract that they do on their website, that is one thing. But if they do not repeat the false claims in their contracts, and they do meet the obligations of the contract (not the advertising, the contract) then they are not breaching their contracts. I've got no idea what's in the contracts, maybe they are breaching.

As for ethics and the law. Conduct can be unethical and still be perfectly legal. It happens all the time. And most of the things that Beck listed: foul language, banning people from their message boards, rude communication is not illegal. It's not very nice and may be unethical, but it is perfectly legal.

I've got no problem with you warning others, warn away. But the real issues that would be authors need to know is what they do and don't provide their authors regarding publishing, editing and distribution, period.

[BeckEaston]

Again, if you want to be added to my petition, it will be confidential until it is released to the legal authorities. I have some media representatives interested to put pressure on the Maryland AG if needed. We hope to hear from you. Email me for confidential addition to (RebeccaEaston@Comcast.net) PA will never see this list from me. I thank you for your time and the courage it takes to seek justice! Regardless of what anyone on these boards say here, this is your life, your decision to stand for your rights.

[SimonSays]

Hey Beck, I wish you the best of luck.

It's heartening to see someone on this board motivated and taking action rather than just complaining.

I hope you are able to mobilize a large number of distraught PA'ers.

[priceless1]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Check out the websites of any traditional publisher. There sites are geared to the CONSUMER, not the authors.<hr></blockquote>
Simon, if I may, I'd like to interject a small comment here. I agree that any publisher's website that espouses over and over that they're a traditional publisher, it should raise red flags.

On the flip side, I have to admit that we mention on our submission page exactly what kind of company we are merely because there is so much assumption going on within the industry. We're small and new and because of that, people assume that we're a POD.

We thought long and hard about saying that our business plan is based upon the traditional houses for the very reasons you state and we want to walk and talk like a duck (I think). LOL. Our website in every other place is geared toward buyers, not authors. However, in light of all the confusion, we did put it in a place where authors would see it.

Still quackin'

[KW]

do meet the obligations of the contract (not the advertising, the contract)

The last part of my previous statement was about their contract.

They say they edit if the book needs it. I guess every book they get must not ned it since none is done.

They say they will promote the book, at publishers discretion as to the extent. Yet they do not promote.

They claim that any issues will be resolved using the arbitration board, but we have seen them stop printing books, and in some cases go out of their way to make an authors life miserable.

It's not very nice and may be unethical, but it is perfectly legal.

But the thing is Simon, those things I had posted about ethics was taking from a legal forum that discussed what unethical conduct is and those things can be prosecuted. People can be unethical all they want, but for a company to do it is another thing all together. The things Becca listed may be legal, but the things I listed are not.

Kevin

[DeePower]

SimonSays:

"Companies can treat their customers how they see fit - like the "Soup Nazi" on Seinfeld. He's rude and abusive, but it's his store. If he doesn't like the way you order, he doesn't have to serve you.

If they breach their contract, or use false advertising, that is a legal issue."

Look at it this way.

PublishAmerica says they make a soup just like the finest traditional restaurants. PA only uses the freshest vegetables, the prime grades of meat, and real cream. Their staff of 32, no wait 25 chefs, meticulously chop, grind and season the ingredients, tasting until the broth is nearly perfect. The soup is served on the finest china, embroidered linens and by candle light.

So you step inside the PublishAmerica Store and order.

What you get is a half dissolved bouillon cube in a styrofoam cup of cold water. The cup leaks and the server trips and spills the water all over you and then yells at you for being so stupid to stand in the way. Not only do you have to pay for this cup of soup, but you're billed for an additional 50 cups as well, so your friends and family can enjoy the soup just like you did.


Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com (http://www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com)

[SimonSays]

Lynn,

I was not implying you were not a duck. You obviously walk the walk AND talk the talk. And as you pointed out yourself, your submission guidelines are easy to find and made clear to potential authors, but your site is geared to your company's target market - book buyers. PA's site is also geared toward their target market as well - authors looking to be published.

That should be a red flag for anyone looking for a publisher. You want one that's trying to sell books, not find authors.

Dee,

I both understand and abhor PA operates. I was merely pointing out that some of PA's conduct that receives a lot of attention around here (such as their rudeness, uncommunicativeness, and tendency to throw dissenters off their boards) is not illegal. Treating their authors that way is not a crime.

The other stuff, the false advertising in particular, is another issue, entirely.

You have been proactive about your situation as long as I've been coming to this board. You don't only warn others, but you've been working to remedy your own situation, and get others to take actions as well. I applaud you for that. For a long time you were one of the only people who seemed to be doing more than just complaining.

I am happy to see that others are now mobilizing as well.

And again, I wish you luck in your efforts.

[lindylou45]

It's heartening to see someone on this board motivated and taking action rather than just complaining.

You have absolutely no idea what other people are doing in regard to PublishAmerica. There are a great many former PA authors who are working diligently to assure justice. We all wish Beck well and we stand beside her as she seeks justice. However, hers is not the only battle being fought. As Kevin has said, just because you don't see what is happening behind the scenes, doesn't mean people are "just complaining."

:bang

[KW]

having their books sold by PA when they have no rights to do so. You know who you are, the ones that are having their books sold even though the rights have been reverted back to them. Check out this page, let me know what you think.

www.cybercrime.gov/2319NEW.htm (http://www.cybercrime.gov/2319NEW.htm)

This might be of interest if you can prove that they are actually selling your book illegally.

Kevin

[KW]

And here.

www.cybercrime.gov/ipmanu...htm#III.B. (http://www.cybercrime.gov/ipmanual/03ipma.htm#III.B.)

Read through these pages and then go to

www.usdoj.gov

and contact them.

Kevin

[BeckEaston]

I agree with you. Are you a former PA author and if so, would you want to be added to the petition?

Again, if you want to be added to my petition, it will be confidential until it is released to the legal authorities. I have some media representatives interested to put pressure on the Maryland AG if needed. We hope to hear from you. Email me for confidential addition to (RebeccaEaston@Comcast.net) PA will never see this list from me. I thank you for your time and the courage it takes to seek justice! Regardless of what anyone on these boards say here, this is your life, your decision to stand for your rights.

[lindylou45]

I agree with you. Are you a former PA author and if so, would you want to be added to the petition?

I've already signed. I believe I'm number 47.

:snoopy :jump

[DeePower]

I've signed it too.

Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com (http://www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com)

[Molly Brent]

I have again moved up on the Amazon best seller list.
It seems impossible that selling "used" books could have changed my standing. My "out of stock" has been changed to "available and usually ships within one or two days. The other online book stores continue to sell it also. I have not received any payment. My contract was cancelled in May.

Please put my name on your petition in large letters and bold print. I appreciate the people who have refused to give up and continue to fight. Thank you and you may always count on me to help in anyway I can.

I'm ready to get an attorney on my own. If anyone has a good one, please send me how I can get in touch with him.

Everyone knows the details of experience. They are not going to get away with stealing my book in addition to everything else. That's a promise.

Molly

[KW]

Contact the DOJ here and they will forward it to the right place. You can also go to the DOJ homepage and contact the AG of the US. Only people who have proof that PA is selling their books illegally should contact them because they deal in copyright infringement. Don't contact them if you just think PA has breeched their contract.

AskDOJ@usdoj.gov.

Kevin

[Ed Williams 3]

...and let me tell y'all, if you haven't bought this book and read it, you should. Classic true story of one of the biggest scams in the literary business, that of the Deering Literary Agency/Sovereign Publications.

The people that ran DLA/SP were Dorothy Deering, her husband Chuck, her brother Bill Richardson, and Chuck's son, Daniel Deering (he ran the literary agency, was a ninth grade high school drop out, who also had a drug addiction problem). These people started out running a fee based literary agency, then branched over into subsidy publishing when they saw how profitable that could be. They never published anything, took literally millions of dollars from hopeful authors, and ended up serving some jail time for all the agony they caused. It's a fascinating read, and I want to publicly thank Uncle Jim (James McDonald) for referring the book here at Absolute Write. Very much appreciated, Jim.

Something interesting to point out to everyone that reads this - here are some of the techniques the Deerings used to lure writers into their web. Some of them may sound familiar to those of you who have been affiliated with a certain "traditional publisher"...

1. They greatly emphasized how hard it was to break into traditional publishing, portraying it as a "we vs. they" type situation. Very strong emphasis on your book "deserving to be published."

2. All the Deerings ever sold were "services" to authors. On account of that, there was no need to produce catelogues or to have sales reps push the books, as that was not where the money came from. The Deerings lived to extract as much money from authors' wallets as they possibly could, they could've cared less about marketing, or even producing the books. Among the services they sold were:

*Expensive editing services.

*"Buy ups" for authors who wanted their books published in trade paperback rather than mass market paperback.

*Authors were periodically told that the Deerings would be making trips to New York to hawk manuscripts to the major publishing houses. If an author was interested in having theirs pushed, they had to pay $500 for the privilege.

3. When authors approached them about why their books were not published when they were told they would, they were treated as unobedient children whose wrists needed to be slapped. The Deerings knew best, and they made sure that their authors always knew that.

What struck me most about this was that there are some basic commonalities regarding literary scams and how they operate. The thing that makes them thrive is the passion new authors have for seeing their books get into print. This passion blinds them to the obvious realities of the scam. It's almost like a seduction, the seducer say all the right lines, does all the right things, then, when it is over, someone has gotten screwed and then comes to realize it when it's all over and too late.

The bottom line is this - think carefully about how PA promotes itself and what business practices it employs, and then compare it to the Deering situation. It should scare the hell out of any prospective PA author, and should totally piss off those already in the fold. Many of the comments on the PA author boards mirror those of Deering clients on the front end of the scam. How very, very sad.

Thanks again, Jim, I owe ya! And Ann, I am now a huge fan of yours to boot, you have both guts and class, and are to be commended for all you did to help those tangled up in the Deering situation.

:coffee

[James D Macdonald]

Thanks again, Jim, I owe ya! And Ann, I am now a huge fan of yours to boot...

You're welcome, Ed. And I've been a fan of Ann's for years myself.

Oh, do you want to thank us in the best possible way?

Read (http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/biblio.htm) our books (http://www.sfwa.org/members/Crispin/ACC_Biblio.html).

I'm glad you liked Ten Percent of Nothing (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0809325756/ref=nosim/madhousemanor/), and I hope everyone here buys a copy for themselves. It's eye-opening. Have you reviewed it over at Amazon yet?

(Suggestion for everyone -- if you buy a copy of Ten Percent of Nothing, ISBN 0-8093-2575-6, do so through your local bookstore. And when you're done with it, donate it to your local library. Get the word out where new writers who aren't on the internet can find it.)

[priceless1]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>It should scare the hell out of any prospective PA author, and should totally piss off those already in the fold.<hr></blockquote>
Well said, Ed. These tactics do sound strangely and frighteningly familiar.

[Ed Williams 3]

Jim, I did post a review of "Ten Percent of Nothing" over on Amazon, and I will take you up on your offer and read some of yours and Ann's stuff. I have a little epistle out as well these days called "Rough As A Cob" - if you decide you need to read something with no literary value, you might want to give it a try. :snoopy

Y'all take care, and I think I will donate my copy of "Ten Percent of Nothing" to the local library here. It might save some new author down the road a lot of money and heartaches.

[KW]

This was in the "Stop and read before posting about PA" thread. Ed Wiliams posted this in reply to what HB said at the PA MB about my 30 page repeat I sent them.

"THIS IS A FABRICATION TO MAKE PA LOOK BAD.
So now he says 'I' wrote this because he can see his house and belongings flushing along with his book sales.
-See, the problem is that if I don't reply, he can't erase the reply and leave my address coding in the message as the originator. I'm no dummy despite what Kevin thinks.

I have the original and Kevin, you are soooo busted. What kind of car do you drive? My family needs a second car. Kiss it goodbye for upsetting me."

So, is he saying that if PA sues me then he will get my car? Will PA just hand it over to him because he is a big cheerleader, when they only give him two books for free, or does it sound like somethng else. HB a PA employee? Don't know, but that is what it sounds like, at least to me.

Kevin

[AC Crispin]

Thank you very much for the kind words, Ed. I didn't do much regarding the Deerings except counsel victims, comfort them, put them in touch with each other, and advise them to take their case to the FBI en masse. Strength in numbers.

That was my first real "case." Writer Beware is a lot more pro-active these days, though we don't discuss our activities on these boards until the appropriate time.

Insofar as reading my books is concerned, I will have a new book out next August, Storms of Destiny, the first book in a brand-new original fantasy trilogy. I'm excited about it. Harper is publishing it.

I just finished editorial revisions on it, and it's a big, fat fantasy. (This is actually a recognized sub-genre these days.)

<grin>

Take care, and happy writing.

-Ann C. Crispin

[FM St George]

isn't it time for yet another ad by PA in the New York Times?

oh, how the time flies...

:P

[James D Macdonald]

isn't it time for yet another ad by PA in the New York Times?

Coming on the 31st. Stand by for the PA Big Spenders' List Part II.

The interesting thing will be seeing if there's a December ad.

[BeckEaston]

Can anyone confirm or deny how many books that Publish America currently has on their site? I need this information as soon as I can get it. I need a very accurate count. How would I go about obtaining this data?

Please help?

[BeckEaston]

Adventure 566
Children's 421
Christmas 24
Cooking 30
Education 91
Family 141
Fantasy 414
Fiction 2387
Gaming 12
Hardcover Choices 94
Health 150
Historical Fiction 388
Historical Non-Fiction 101
Horror 141
Humor 189
Inspirational 481
Law Enforcement 51 ·
Mystery 166
Non-Fiction 737
Philosophy 113
Poetry 474
Romance 165
Science 26
Sci-Fi 245
Self-Help 383
Short Stories 123
Southern Fiction 83
Southern Non-Fiction 10
Spiritual 650
Sports 40
Suspense 584
Thriller 497
Western 50
Young Adult 394
Total as of 10/25/04 = 10,421

Now, if every book sold for an average of $10.00 per copy that would mean that they will receive $104,210.00 in profit. The average price is much higher than that, and some authors like Nancy sold over 1,000 copies. How much money do you think PA is making from their false promises? Who says they have to sell to anyone other than the authors. They're making a killing!

:smack

What will it take for you to stand up and fight? Please, sign the petition. RebeccaEaston@Comcast.net (RebeccaEaston@Comcast.net )

[KW]

I was wrong, thanks Jim, so I deleted it.

Kevin

[BeckEaston]

Some books are listed in several places. Example it could be in mystery and romance etc or southern fiction and romance. A more accurate count would be from all the PA books on Amazon, which varies frequently but will include all except the most recently released. New count today is 6711. That does include all books from PA as in former and current authors.

I just now got this message in my inbox. Now, if PA has all these lists that are cross-referenced, how many actual books do they have? If 6711 is the true number then they have contracted 3,000 people in less than 6 months to get to their 9,000 happy author quote. I'm confused. Don't they have only 3 or 4 acquisition editors?

:ssh

[Sher2]

Now, if PA has all these lists that are cross-referenced, how many actual books do they have? If 6711 is the true number then they have contracted 3,000 people in less than 6 months to get to their 9,000 happy author quote. I'm confused. Don't they have only 3 or 4 acquisition editors?

I believe the number now being used is 12,000 happy authors. That would equate to 12,000 titles if you count those to be released in the near future. And, of course, you'd have to deduct the purported 1% of unhappy authors. Personally, I think the percentage is considerably higher than that.

[DeePower]

Amazon.com lists 6752 titles as of today. On May 21 amazon.com listed 3046 titles. That's an additional 3706 titles for the intervening five month time period. In a response to the Better Business Bureau they said they have 25 editors that provide editing services and acquisitions.

Think about that. Those 25 editors had to edit a little over a book per working day AND read 5 submitted manuscripts. Of course I'm using the 80% rejection rate that Miranda Prather says they use. (If they published 3046 titles and they only publish 20% of what is submitted, then there were about 18,000 manuscript submitted during that same time period).

Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com (http://www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com)

[ncq13]

Hi all! This is a reminder and a call for assistance regarding the petition. We need as many folks as possible to encourage those who have concerns about PA's practices to sign the petition.
* I know that some people are "afraid" of PA. Only Rebecca and the MD AG will know who has signed the petition.
*I am also aware of the shame factor. No one wants to admit that their publisher is famous for nafarious practices. As a PA author myself, I understand. Also, please keeep in mind that whether you take action or not, you will live under the black cloud of PA disgrace. At least if you take action you can take back some of your power and prevent others from being hurt. If you are out there and afraid or feeling ashamed, now is the time to take your life back.
Please, take a minute of your time and email Rebecca at: RebeccaEaston@Comcast.net (RebeccaEaston@Comcast.net) or use the AW mail. (Be sure to tell her if you are under a "gag" order)
When you are done signing the petition, take another minute and email a few friends.
Together we CAN make a difference.
Thank you!
~Kate

[James D Macdonald]

Per Amazon there are 6,752 results for PublishAmerica, 29 for Publish America, 35 for Erica House, and 51 for AmErica House.

That's a total of 6,867 either out, or soon to be released.

Realizing that Amazon isn't perfect, of course.

Now, assume each book sells for $19.95. (I haven't checked lately, but at one time I found an average price for a full month's list, and it was $19.95)

I don't know the average page-length of a PA book, but I'll assume it's 300 pages.

Now we know that Lightning Source charges $0.013/page plus $0.90 for the cover. Cost of printing of the average 300 page book is $4.80/copy.

For various reasons that seem good to me, I'll assume that the average PA book sells 75 copies. (For every person who sells 150, someone else sells 0.)

We know that PA offers its authors a 30% discount. I will assume that most books are sold to the authors, therefore each book sells for $13.97. I'm not counting the cost of shipping at this time.

Each author gets an 8% royalty, but those royalties aren't paid on books the author buys himself, so I'm not counting those right now.

So: 6,867 * 75 = 515,025 total copies sold.

Cost of goods sold (printing) = $2,472,120

515,025 * 13.97 = $7,194,899.25 gross income.

$7,194,899.25 - 2,472,120 = $4,722,779.25 gross profit.

Now that is every penny that they can expect to see from those books, ever. Once they've filled their niche markets, that's all the potential squeezed out.

Let's play a little more. PA claims 65 employees. 65 at $10.00/hour for a 40 hour week, four weeks a month is a monthly payroll of $104,000, or $1,248,000 year. That's all the editing (such as it is), all the covers, monitoring the messageboard, taking phone orders, and so on.

Each book is worth 75 * ($13.97-$4.80) = $687.75. To cover payroll, PA has to release 1,815 books per year.

Amazon lists 3,219 books for PA for this year.

I can refigure this assuming the books sell to bookstores at a 40% discount, and the author gets 8% of that discounted price:

Each book brings in $11.97 minus author's royalty of $0.96 or $11.01, minus printing cost of $4.80, for $6.21 gross profit per book. PA would need to sell 200,966 books to cover payroll. At 75 copies per title, that's 2,680 titles that they'd have to publish in the year to cover payroll. Again, they published 3,219 this year.

So, I expect that in order to cover payroll and printing, they have to publish between 1,815 and 2,680 titles a year.

That gives them between $370,697 and $965,601 this year to pay for the townhouse, to give Willem, Larry, and Miranda a bit better pay than $10 an hour, pay taxes, rent phone lines, pay their ISP, and all the rest of the things that go into running a business.

No wonder they're scrambling for new authors, no wonder they're playing games like these New York Times ads to attempt to induce authors to buy more than those 75 copies. An awful lot is explained.

[ProandCon]

Yes, that explains why they went LLLP. They want to keep all that money.


They are talking about Dee Power's book on this PA thread.

www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/5632.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/5632.htm)

[Risseybug]

That was a very interesting thread P&C. A good mix of the Stepford authors and those who can think for themselves. One person took offense to the survey. Ok, I can understand that. But then she says, to the note about how difficult it is for first time authors to become published:
"Excuse me, but aren't we all published?"

Ahhh... and there's the rub. No, my poor deluded soul, you have a book in print, but if you put that on a query letter and submit it to another publisher or agent, then in their eyes, you are NOT published. At least not "traditionally" - they'll consider it vanity published, if they consider it at all.

At least one PA pro person has got the powers that be figured out. He knows if PA doesn't like the thread, they'll come along and delete it.

We'll see how long the thread lasts.

[FM St George]

*flush*

thread gone...

[ncq13]

Some PA titles that are coming out are being listed under a new company's name. Now, I know they were AmErica House, etc. But, check this out:
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp
Swivel Hips, Pitiful, and Ugly Mug
Bonnie Gibson

ISBN: 1413733255
Format: Paperback, 60pp
Pub. Date: August 2004
Publisher: America House Book Publishers
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: 559,649
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp skip to cartskip to cart
NEW FROM B&N
B&N Price: $12.95
Member Price: $12.30 Join>
Usually ships within 2-3 days

Is this just another AmErica House name or is PA preparing to reincarnate-- again?

[James D Macdonald]

B&N has listed PublishAmerica books as America House right the way along. AmErica House is PA's old name.

[ncq13]

Thank you James. I wasn't sure if that was the case or not.

[lindylou45]

Why do they list Lightning Source as the publisher for some of their books? Example:

Cate Cavanagh
1. Gifts of the Spirit
ISBN: 1592868762 - Paperback - List Price: $19.95
Publisher: Lightning Source Inc
Author: Cate Cavanagh

Any ideas? This is definitely a PA book.

[James D Macdonald]

It's listed as a Lightning Source book because Lightning prints it. It's listed that way in the database.

(This is a problem that a lot of PoDs have, including honest ones, who find themselves grouped with the vanities and scammers. There's major bookstore reluctance to ordering books printed by Lightning.)

[SimonSays]

Quote:
Coming on the 31st. Stand by for the PA Big Spenders' List Part II.

The interesting thing will be seeing if there's a December ad.


My prediction. If PA has signed substantially more authors than they normally sign during the time they run the ad, there will be more ads, even if 0 books are sold as a result of the ad. Afterall for PA, signing authors, not selling books is their marketing goal.

Also they may continue the ads - to keep their authors happy - IF the surge in author purchases in an effort to make the monthly list, covers the cost of running the ad.

If neither of those two things occur, then we will be bidding a fond adieu to PA's "partnership" with the venerable NY Times.

[lindylou45]

It's listed as a Lightning Source book because Lightning prints it. It's listed that way in the database.

Thanks once again for your help, James. It is very much appreciated.

[BeckEaston]

I mean it happened to us. We all know that. But don't you just want a beer or two to take away the memory of even being associated with such a disreputable company. Late at night when you're feeling absolutely stupidly exhausted, don't ya just feel like tilting your glass and shouting, "Yeah you lied to me!!!”

I mean really, what can we really say? We're not stupid people and yet hundreds if not thousands of us are out there disappointed, deceived and downright miserable that we got zipped up in something so incredibly un-credible. It's just plain sad isn't it. No matter what anyone says, what PA does to its authors with its false and misleading representation is just plainly unjust. Come on man! What's it gonna take for some of you to get off your tuckus and do something about it??? What the heck are you waiting for? A signed affidavit? I'm doin all I can, but I tell ya, even I am absolutely amazed at the number of people who would rather be idle and say nothing then stop being victimized and stand for their rights. It just amazes me. I reach out, I pay for the preliminary data, I organize everything, I stand and say I will fight for you, and still authors do not send me their name for the petition. What are you so afraid of? It's confidential. I promised that and I WILL keep my word. That you can take to the bank! God bless each of you who might be afraid to take a stand against what you think might be unjust. Email me with your name; your story and I promise you, this one time in your whole life, you will be counted.

:heart

[SimonSays]

Beck -

I admire your tenacity, your drive and your determination.

I think I saw a post from you somewhere that you have gotten out of your PA contract. Congratulations to you. I know that is not nearly enough for you. That you seek a justice that goes beyond just your contract. It appears that getting that justice requires the actions of others besides yourself.

I think you are wrong when you assume that fear is keeping people from stepping up. The plain truth is that many out there who would rather CRY in their beer and complain than take action. They would rather feel victimized than do something about it.

Please do not get too upset about this. You have done what you can to get justice for all. You cannot help those who will not help themselves.

The most important thing is that you take care of yourself. And you are doing that. YOU stopped being a victim. You've gotten out of your contract. It is not selfish for you to focus on your own writing future instead of your bad experience in the past. Put your passions and energies and focus into getting a good agent and writing your next book.

The good folks here like Jim and Dave and Anne and Victoria will spread the word to keep others from making the same mistake you did.

As for those who have already made the mistake, but choose not to sign your petition - they deserve what they got.

[CWGranny]

Wow, aren't we big on judging people? What if it's not beer crying or fear? I'm not a PA author but I can see a number of reasons why a PA author who was not happy with the experience might not cry in their beer OR sign a petition.

Suppose someone isn't happy with PA and *if asked* tells folks about their experience -- but they've personally moved on to other things. Yes, they feel they got involved in a crappy deal but they take a bit of the responsibility (whether they deserve it or not) and they don't want to be dragged back into the slough of despond over the whole thing. See --no fear or beer!

Suppose someone isn't happy with PA and has said so whenever the topic comes up but doesn't usually originate such discussions. Again, the person is looking toward their next book which they will not hand over to vultures. They have seen the "screw PA" zealots come and go with no real result and -- quite honestly -- some of those people seem a little scary. They don't know Beck, but they wonder if she might be about to go all MarkY on them since she's starting to throw around accusations (and since the stupid remarks of others -- like the beer thing -- are going to start clinging to Beck, guilt by association, and make her seem MORE like MarkY.)

Some of the most extreme of the anti-PA camp (not watchdog types but some of the look-at-me, look-at-me tirades that compare PA to all sorts of human attrocities) make folks uncomfortable. They don't want to be linked with people who seem to be going insane over this. PA has taught them that hooking up with the wrong folks (like PA for example) doesn't do your reputation as a professional any good at all. These folks are just gun shy -- they've been burned by PA, now they don't want to be burned by anti-PA. They understand that the extreme opposite end of any issue isn't likely to be a lot more sane or acceptable than the end you loathe. They may not know Beck but each time she comes on strong, these folks back away a little more. They aren't afraid of PA...they are concerned about doing their reputation MORE harm by linking up with a list of folks they don't know and don't know how far it's going to go and don't know whether all the things linked to their name are things they would agree with.

If I were a PA person, I honestly don't know if I would sign the petition. Probably I would but I don't know. However, the more you ascribe motives to those you don't know, the more you're going to make the gun-shy feel more nervous of you -- not less. They've already dealt with irrational people ascribing motive to them (if they've ever gotten fun mail from author support) -- they aren't interested in getting involved with folks like THAT again.

My advice -- don't go so PETA on folks.

gran

[BeckEaston]

I absolutely agree with you that if people have "moved on" as you call it they have every right not to want to sign this petition. But they have every reason to sign it too.

My comments were made from my heart, not a judgement. I get hundreds of emails every single day with people who "consistantly" have told me what PA has done to them. These are the emails, or people that I referenced. I think I was pretty clear on that.

It's like seeing a woman being abused by a husband and not being able to do anything about it. She has to make a stand on her own. I see the abuse all day long and no, I am no troll who wines and judges. I believe that we all have the "right" to seek justice without fear. I'm seeing a whole lot of people say they want to but they are afraid. That's why I posted that, and whether or not you beleive it, I am spending about 8 hours a day compiling this data. You were way off the mark when you thought you could analyze what I wrote. Remember, there is no tone or sentiment in text. What I do I do because it is the right thing to do. I want to encourage those who are fearful, not judge them. For some doing nothing is tantamount to saying being victimized was their fault. It's simply not so.

[ProandCon]

Good points CWGranny.

FYI

Insert from letter sent by one author awhile back to me on another screen name.

"Thanks again and I will leave you out of it, anonymous."

Inserts from another letter sent recently to that screen name.

"I've received your name confidentially from an undisclosed author. We are attempting to gather a petition for authors who have been mislead by doing business with Publish America in Maryland."

"Please send a private email to me that no one will see but me and my lawyer"

How can I trust signing anything when my trust was violated from the undisclosed author as you can see who said "I'll leave you out of it, anonymous".

Now, I know at least one person who is a player behind the petition. Is this player also looking at the names on the petition? Tell me it isn't so, Rebecca!

No reason to name the author. I don't like the violation of trust right off the bat. Is this petition really confidential as stated?

Violation of trust puts that author on the same level as that deceiving publishing company called PA. Maybe that trick was learned from the biggest cheerleader at PA.

Rebecca, that person needs to be kicked off your team. If that person will do it to me, it can happen to you if that person someday gets mad at you.

[lindylou45]

Rebecca's asking people to sign her petition is a lot like our presidential candidates asking Americans to vote. Should they vote - absolutely, after all, voting is a privilege, not a right. But there are many Americans who won't vote - why? Because they don't believe their vote will matter.

It's the same with this petition - will it matter? Who knows, it might or it might not. I have both signed Rebecca's petition and voted early, because I'm one of those people who chose to believe that some things in this country/world DO matter.

Although Rebecca's intentions are extremely honorable and admirable, she -- nor anyone else for that matter, can force people to fight for their rights. All she can do is let them know she is willing to fight beside them. She's certainly done that. Those of us who have signed her petition, and in all likelihood those who haven't, appreciate Rebecca's actions. We wish her well and hope for the best.

[BeckEaston]

Well, I have told authors to post on message board that they might visit often. Maybe it was one of those authors who posted "Anonymously?" I don't know. Hopefully they put my email. I think everyone is trying very hard to assist in any way they can. I can't be angry with them for that. BUT, I will ask if anyone does post, please use a name. I think it's right. I have no humiliation for posting this message and although I don't think others do, an anonymous post isn't right either. Thanks for the info, I appreciate your help!

[SimonSays]

I agree that Becca can't force people to fight for their rights.

That's why I suggested that if she can't get enough people to join her in the big fight to force PA to change, that she focus on her own writing career instead of justice for all.

And yes, many people don't believe their vote matters, but if they aren't going to raise their voice in the voting booth, then they should stop raising their voice by griping and complaining about taxes, the war, the economy, etc. And when you look at how evenly split the polls are, it's clear that every vote can matter.

It is also clear, that numbers matter with a situation like this, because no government agency is going to invest the time, money and resources investigating when they receive a couple dozen complaints about a company with thousands of customers. They receive complaints about lots of legit companies as well, there's always people who are unsatisfied with the products, service, etc. provided by even the best and biggest co's. They cannot investigate each and every company that is complained about. And because PA does not take any money from their victims, or endanger their health or safety, it is even more important that there is a high number of complaints.

I do have a question for those of you who believe that some may not be coming forward to sign Becca's petition because they are afraid. And that question is: Exactly what are they afraid of?

What power does PA have over them? What can PA do to them?

Throw them off their bulletin board? There are many other bulletin boards where they can tell their story and get support.

Stop promoting and distributing their books? PA isn't promoting or distributing their books as it is. That's WHY they're unhappy with PA.

Not pay them royalties? What royalties - they're not selling any books.

Not let them out of their contract? They don't let you out of your contract unless forced to anyway.

[CaoPaux]

Becca, are you consulting counsel about this petition? IANAL, but one has mentioned that under Maryland law "a nonlawyer is not privileged to solicit individuals for potential legal action". I'd hate to see all your efforts come to naught.

[BeckEaston]

No worries. Cannot say too much at this point. Suffice it to say that your concern is noted. I appreciate the heads up that you offer. Cannot go in to it more than that. Wish us luck.

[CaoPaux]

Luck! :sun

[Gravity]

I signed it. My book is as dead as Kelsey's...well, just say it's dead. What could it hurt?

[bluwinteryfox]

I don't think everyone who isn't signing the petition is afraid. I have two friend who don't frequent any of the boards. So there may be many PA authors out there who are upset with PA yet they don't know what to do because they don't know about or lurk on the different forums.

Both my friends signed the petition. I also gave one of them Becca's email address so she could get help in getting her rights back- which she did but she signed the gag order. She believes if she changes the title, the names of the main characters, and adds a few chapters to the manuscript PA print, she doesn't have to show any other publisher the book has been in print before and that she has her rights. Is she correct in thinking this?

I applaud both :clap Dave and :clap Becca for sending out the email concerning the petition. I've signed it and I'm not afraid. If I knew any other PA author personally, I'd tell them about it too.

I've just sent PA my second letter asking for them to terminate my contract. This letter isn't as friendly as the first.

Monique

[winniemitzandme]

I received an email from PA on 10/18/04 telling me they had agreed to release me from my contract for my book Death by Bad Magic and that the papers would arrive soon. As of today those papers has not arrived, sent and email to PA today telling them I had not received anything, and I did not want a release with the gag order attached to it. Not heard a word as of this afternoon from PA.

Oh, yes, since I don't know what to expect from PA, I too signed the petition.

Violet :grin

[James D Macdonald]

I'd be very surprised if more than a tiny fraction of PA authors were even aware of this (and similar) boards.

Of those 12,000 happy authors, how many are expert web researchers? And how many have been ground down by a "don't take that tone with us" email?

You know, if you really wanted to reach PA authors, you'd take out an ad in Writers Digest.

[DaveKuzminski]

I wish to point out that I have contacted many authors asking them to join in the petition. I signed my name to the contact email and I made each contact individually by handwriting each email rather than posting in bulk to an email list that might disclose identities to others. I included Rebecca's name and email address so those authors could decide on their own whether to involved themselves.

Then again, I think you all know that I speak out in the open and I stick by my words. Still, in view of what's happening, I felt it wouldn't hurt to point out that I and P&E have not disclosed anyone's confidentiality.

[BeckEaston]

I too have not disclosed anyone's identity. I thought about that article James. I sent you a private message.
:eek

[Ed Williams 3]

God, when you think it can't get worse...

"Okay folks, I'm going to do it.

My friend Mark Wirtz has talked me into it. I'm going to be marketing my books at comedy shops. WHY? Because ladies and gentlemen H.B. IS GOING ON THE ROAD!!! I'm going to give this stand up @#%$ a try. In a half hour I came up with a ten minute set that made my wife have to pee. I've never tried it before and I'm sick of people begging me to do it. I do it over the phone with people all over the world for free every freakin' week, so why not? I did the seminar(after promising PA I would be good and stick to the subject)and it didn't even make me nervous really.

So, I'm going to go do open mike night at some local comedy clubs and see how it goes. There are just too many things I can't put in books because of the visuals and voices.(yes, I do a few voices) But the deal is, I can't write certain things that would be funnier if I said them. It's an excellant way to sell books in the lobby!

So start watching your local club scenes and I promise to make you feel the need to pee.

Okay, calm down." :rofl

I think a couple of months ago he was going to write screenplays or for TV or something, and now this. Anyone that would follow this boob is in need of some serious counseling, yet amazingly, there are some that do. Wonder when the gigs will start pouring in?

[priceless1]

In all fairness, I hope he does well. I haven't read HB's works but if he thinks he can take his act on the road, more power to him. I've seen him give a seminar and my heart bled for him because he was either suffering from severe stage fright or low blood sugar. We were all prepared for the HB that people read on the boards, ascerbic and in your face. None of those showed up and I finally had to leave.

From what I've seen of him in person, he's not at all the verbal daredevil when he's not around his posse of friends. He's painfully shy and extremely introverted. Considering the things he's said to me on the boards, I was expecting a huge tongue lashing when we came face to face. Instead he couldn't even look at me.

It takes a huge amount of guts to get up in front of a group of people, doesn't it, Ed? You're lucky to have an amazing amount of experience and a very easy and genuinly hysterical manner. This could be a real tough road to reality for HB and despite the achingly cruel and rude lies he's spread about me in the past, I do wish him well.

[HConn]

I hope he succeeds as well.

[Ed Williams 3]

...for me to develop a routine I was comfortable with, and still I get tremendously scared before I go out in front of an audience. You never know what their reaction may be, and you can leave in any emotional state ranging from exhilaration to depression. I probably am too hard on HB, but what really bothers me is how he leads innocent writers to the slaughter with PA. If he wants to do it, that's fine, but to encourage others to follow his path forward is criminal, the trail of broken promises, hearts, and legacies he'll leave behind is not something I would want on my head.

[priceless1]

Yes, Ed, I know you worked very diligently on your speeches before you got it right. What I'd give to hear you. I'm certain my abs would get a workout.

And yes, I know exactly what your reasoning is with HB. Everyone on this board realizes HB is the leader of the PA pack. He may be a vitriolic mouthpiece for his publisher, but normal thinking people aren’t sucked in by his diatribe.

In my short tenure there, I never bought his schtick for a minute. I saw him as a frustrated man who would give his life over to be more than he perceives himself to be now. That he isn’t creates this big fish in a small pond mentality and he struts around lending sage words of advice to those who admire him. Don't forget, it takes a willing audience for a bully to rule the roost.

Even though he is the most spiteful, rancorous, and malicious person I’ve ever known, my compassion runs deeper and I end up pitying him. A happy, well-adjusted individual simply does not act the way he does.

[AC Crispin]

Since I am not a Publish America author, and have not had personal experience with PA -- except for PA trolls calling me and Victoria "whores" and claiming we plagiarize our books...whoopie! -- I didn't think it was appropriate for me to sign the petition as an individual. And, since the petition is not under my control (and I'm not suggesting it should be, it's Beck's project!) Writer Beware can't sign it, either.

However, that doesn't mean WB is remaining inactive. We have something in the works, but I cannot say more than that publicly.

I do urge all unhappy PA authors to not only sign the petition, but to write an individual, hardcopy letter to the Maryland Attorney General's office, the IRS, and any other agencies that you think will be interested in what PA is doing.

-Ann C. Crispin

[ProandCon]

"And yes, I know exactly what your reasoning is with HB. Everyone on this board realizes HB is the leader of the PA pack."

Wrong!

He might be the leader of a few weak minded authors or a** kissers over there but for the most part he does not represent the majority of the authors at PA.

He does create a fake grandeur that I see some of the newbies fall for all the time. They lose their self identity in fear of facing his wrath when they don't agree with him. Fortunately some PA authors don't care for his method of intimidation and will tell him where to get off.

What I'm waiting from him next is the excuse for his new book not selling well. I see already him saying "I was so tied up moving I didn't have a chance to promote my book".

Tomorrow's NYT ad should be interesting. You already have the guy that had 500 pre-orders asking the female author, who said she received an email from PA informing her of being in the ad, exactly how many books did she sell. If he bought 500 books and didn't receive PA notification of being listed in the ad which seems to be the case, he sure is scratching his head wondering why he did not make the ad.

If the head cheerleader is selected for the NYT ad for his new probably not so funny book, the author with 500 presales will probably be seen crying on the boards or at least his Hail to PA speeches will change.

PA must have made enough on the first announcement of the ad because it wasn't advertised on the PA board this time to announce the on going ad.

P&C
A present PA author staying put at PA to keep my enemy closer to me

[lois barg]

Hi Dave,

What is your address for signing the petition?

Thanks,

lois

[ncq13]

Lois,
You can email Rebecca at: RebeccaEaston@Comcast.net (RebeccaEaston@Comcast.net)
Please let her know if you are under a gag order or not. You can also reach her through the AW mail system.

Thank you for coming forward. Together WE WILL make a difference. Please pass the word!
~Kate

[DaveKuzminski]

Lois, Rebecca is coordinating the petition.

Also, it's not my petition. It belongs to the authors who were mistreated and defrauded.

[BeckEaston]

I do urge all unhappy PA authors to not only sign the petition, but to write an individual, hardcopy letter to the Maryland Attorney General's office, the IRS, and any other agencies that you think will be interested in what PA is doing.

If you create such a letter, I would be much obliged if you send me a carbon copy for my accumulated supporting file. Supporting documentation will only benefit the petition's effectiveness. Our numbers are staggering. Keep on telling everyone!

Thank you to everyone who is trying to help. Lois, you emailed me and I have your information. It's all-good!

:grin

[James D Macdonald]

Today: A single column (page 17) in the New York Times Book Review. They've dropped the ISBNs and the prices for the books from the ad.

<HR>
The $100,000 Scholarship : Middle School Prep
by Wayne Y. Fujita
ISBN: 1413730469
(October 11, 2004) per Amazon
(August 2004) per Barnes&Noble
List Price: $19.95
Availability: Usually ships within 8 to 11 days from Amazon.com
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 444,981
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 2
Total sales this year: 0
Total sales last year: 0
</blockquote>
<HR>

Your Fledgling Athlete : A Handbook for Sideline Parents
by Kurt J. Mohney
ISBN: 1413720757
(August 2, 2004)
List Price: $17.95
Availability: This title usually ships within 9 to 12 days.
Amazon.com Sales Rank: None
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 0
Total sales last year: 0
</blockquote>
<HR>

Isabel
by Donna Jones Koppelman
ISBN: 1413733158
(July 26, 2004)
List Price: $17.95
Availability: This item is currently not available.
Amazon.com Sales Rank: None
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Not listed
</blockquote>
<HR>

First American Pope: Pontifex Maximus
by Angelo Pagnotti, Sr.
ISBN: 1413727883
(September 7, 2004)
List Price: $24.95
Availability: Usually ships within 8 to 11 days from Amazon.com
Amazon.com Sales Rank: None
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 0
Total sales last year: 0
</blockquote>
<HR>

Katie's Wish
by Susan Spierling Smith
ISBN: 1413732704
(July 26, 2004)
List Price: $12.95
Availability: Usually ships within 1 to 2 days from Amazon.com
Amazon.com Sales Rank: None
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 2
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 0
Total sales last year: 0
</blockquote>
<HR>

Walk With Me : The Story of One Man's Life with Muscular Degeneration and His 1,700-Mile Walk Through California
by Martin McCorkle
ISBN: 1413730434
(August 9, 2004)
List Price: $19.95
Availability: Usually ships within 1 to 2 days from Amazon.com
Amazon.com Sales Rank: None
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: 550,102
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 1
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 1
Total sales last year: 0
</blockquote>
<HR>

Paradise Prey : A Tess Titan Mystery
by Phillip R. Dolan
ISBN: 1413731368
(August 2, 2004)
List Price: $19.95
Availability: This title usually ships within 9 to 12 days.
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 694,616
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: 162,440
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 1
Total sales last year: 0
</blockquote>
<HR>

Swivel Hips, Pitiful, and Ugly Mug
by Bonnie Gibson
ISBN: 1413733255
(August 9, 2004)
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 707,085
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: 563,137
List Price: $12.95
Availability: Usually ships within 24 hours from Amazon.com
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 1
Total sales last year: 0
</blockquote>
<HR>

Current River Redemption
by Carol J. Stover
ISBN: 1413732275
(August 30, 2004)
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 854,231
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
List Price: $19.95
Availability: Usually ships within 8 to 11 days from Amazon.com
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 0
Total sales last year: 0
</blockquote>
<HR>

Hawala : Based on a True Story
by Leo Teohari
ISBN: 1413727239
(August 30, 2004)
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 521,012
Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None
List Price: $24.95
Availability: Usually ships within 8 to 11 days from Amazon.com
Ingram's Stock Information:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On hand across all warehouses: 0
On order across all warehouses: 0
On backorder across all warehouses: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 0
Total sales last year: 0
</blockquote>

[priceless1]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>They've dropped the ISBNs and the prices for the books from the ad.<hr></blockquote>
Huh? Don't they want to sell books? <img border=0 src="http://www.absolutewrite.com/images/emotewha.gif" /> If I had paid a small fortune to make this sham of a list, I'd certainly be screaming loud and long if my ISBN and $$ were noticeably AWOL. It's also interesting to note that these books are very recently published, thus reinforcing the notion that these are not reader sales, but author sales. My heart goes out to these authors who are a part of this wall of sham.

[Whachawant]

I haven't seen the advertisement.
Is it as large and obnoxious as the first one?
Does it list any of the authors on the first advertisement?

I wonder how the writers of the first advert. feel right now.:smack

[James D Macdonald]

This ad is considerably smaller than the first one. As to being obnoxious: it still has a large paragraph boosting PA.

What's missing is any attempt to sell the books. Not only are the prices and the ISBNs missing. There are no descriptions of the books, and the subtitles are missing, so strangers won't be able to figure out what genre the book is.

I notice that this ad appeared on the last possible day in October, so all the people who were going to buy books to be in the November ad will have already bought them without a chance to see how shabby this ad looks. Bet they thought it was going to be another half page!

I'm betting there isn't going to be a December ad.

[astonwest]

"I'm betting there isn't going to be a December ad."

And considering this ad was smaller and held less information than the first one, perhaps the November ad is going to be a little one with only the titles and authors listed?

Oh well...

:hat
Big Daddy West

[James D Macdonald]

Huh? Don't they want to sell books?

As a matter of fact, no. "Selling books" to "the public" isn't part of their business plan.

<HR>

Is there any talk about the latest ad over on the PA message boards? Or have they forgotten all about it, since The Logo isn't boosting it any more?

(They could advertise their ad, y'know: in the month since the first one came out Phillip R. Dolan's A Handsome Guy saw its sales through Ingram go up by 400%.) (Results not typical.)

No, we'll see. What I'm more interested in seeing is what Spectacular New News will be announced in January, with a chance to buy Lots of Your Own Books in celebration.

[FM St George]

haven't seen anything on the PA boards...

you'd think it would at least make their front page - oh, right...

:P

[astonwest]

"What I'm more interested in seeing is what Spectacular New News will be announced in January, with a chance to buy Lots of Your Own Books in celebration."

Um, James, unless I'm mistaken, January 31 is the end of the royalty period...so unfortunately, it won't be Spectacular, nor will it be New, but it will definitely be a time to 'celebrate' the fact that authors can purchase copies themselves, and get royalties on all those 100s or 1000s of books purchased (as long as the credit card company doesn't run into a delay again)...

Sigh...

:hat
Big Daddy West

[KW]

(as long as the credit card company doesn't run into a delay again)...

It would have to be the credit card companies fault, after all, it's not like PA would make a mistake or anything. They are careful with everything they do, even which books they select. :rofl

Kevin

[DaveKuzminski]

You mean to tell me it wasn't a typographical mistake on PublishAmerica's part when they purchased four domains using the Preditors & Editors' trademark? Are you telling me that was deliberate?

Oh my, oh my. I'm so disappointed in them now.

[FM St George]

it's sad, really... all that money and the authors will have nothing to show for it in the end.

:(

[BeckEaston]

You're too funny, Dave. LOL

[DeePower]

I have posted this before, but time is running short.

If you have a book published by PublishAmerica and you feel that they don't live up to what they say they do, please contact me Dee Power authors@brianhillanddeepower.com

You can do something about it. This is separate from Rebecca's petition, if you haven't signed that petition please do so.

Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com (http://www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com)

[DeePower]

Interesting. PublishAmerica's Better Business Bureau is being updated. Last time I checked the BBB reported no complaints.

"The Bureau's report on this company is being updated while the Bureau conducts further research or verifies important information. No report is available at this time.
Report as of: 11/2/2004 "

Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com (http://www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com)

[ncq13]

Dave, when did this happen? I had no idea!

[DaveKuzminski]

Four years ago. I posted a copy of the extortion letter that Larry Clopper of PA sent me at URL anotherealm.com/prededitors/pubwarn4.htm (http://anotherealm.com/prededitors/pubwarn4.htm) telling me what they'd done.

[D Dawes]

It appears that PA has authors tracking the number of rip-off reports and leaving rebuttals in an attempt to convince folks that PA offers a wonder service with no upfront fees. Yet, they fail to mention, the balloon installment plan authors are coerced into later, receiving no royalties or inadequate royalties without an explanation.

Here's the web link. ripoffreport.com/results....archtype=0 (http://ripoffreport.com/results.asp?q1=ALL&q5=publish+america&submit2=Search%21&q4=&q6=&q3=&q2=&q7=&searchtype=0)

I would suggest we counter this by filing more rip-off reports because the reports do tend to show up on Goggle's search engine every time someone researches the publisher's fictitious name, PublishAmerica or Publish America. The rip-off reports are also filed under both names, which is a good thing! :snoopy

[DaveKuzminski]

I have suggested that both ways of writing PA's name be used in such sites. Then if only one is searched upon, all the results should come up.

I've also noticed lately that PA's trolls appear to be showing up at more forums than usual. In particular, one appeared at the Rumormill to comment how strange it seemed that a writer posted to the PA topic there after it sat unused for awhile. The obvious insinuation was that one of PA's critics posted that deliberately just to get the topic up higher on the chronilogically arranged list.

[Timothy W Johnson]

Okay…it’s taken awhile to get to this primarily because my wife and I started our vacation last week and we’ve been rather quite busy since then. Nevertheless, I wanted to post this just in case there might be that aspiring writer out there looking for the perfect publisher to come along and sweep them off their feet—beware of this one, however…PublishAmerica.

If I don’t respond to anyone ASAP, it isn’t because I’m rude, it’s because I’ve returned to my vacationing…but there’s always the chance that I will.

By the way, my name’s Tim Johnson. It’s been great to see everyone taking the time to help people make sound decisions. All of you have been wonderfully informative and compassionate.

Anyhow, I just wanted to pitch in on giving some info. Here’s where being associated with a so-called “traditional” publisher has gotten me thus far—it’s been about two years now, I believe.<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/image/posticons/pi_cry.gif" />

My most recent e-mail to a PA employee:
<hr />
<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/image/posticons/pi_sharpteeth.gif" />To Whom It May Concern:

If all rights to my novel, Twisted Oak: Eyes of Discernment, are not returned to me within two weeks, I will submit complaints against PublishAmerica to the Federal Trade Commission, the FBI, the BBB, the Maryland AG’s office, and any other organization or site on the World Wide Web that I can possibly find.

In short: I want you to stop publishing my book, and I want you to give it back to me—no strings attached.

As of now, you have a choice. Both completely return the rights to my book over to me and remove it from all databases and catalogs so that it doesn’t show up as being a PA book. Either do this, or I will make good on the promise above and be just one more voice among the vast many that have filed complaints that PA is a scam and has deceived many.

If you try and threaten me in any way concerning my book, I will aggressively follow through with my promise.

Sincerely,
Tim Johnson
<hr />
<img border=0 src="http://www.absolutewrite.com/images/EmoteShrug.gif" />The PA employee’s response:
<hr />
<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/image/posticons/pi_bigsmile.gif" />Dear Mr. Johnson,

Do not address us in such a tone. For now, in the absence of any reasons,
your contract termination request must be denied, and your contract remains
fully in place.

Also, there are not now, nor have there ever been any "vast many"
complaints of any kind. There is no problem, nor has there ever been. While
the Internet can present you with a vast wealth of information, it has also
been littered with misconceptions and myths by less than honest individuals.

Normally we don't even respond to occasional preposterous bits of comedy
that may show up on the web. To refute them implies that they are credible,
which they are not. Negativity on the web may be found concerning all
publishers.

Various industry pundits, literally dozens of lawyers, and 9000 very happy
authors disagree with the information you have chosen as fact. We have not
heard such issues from any credible source. Our name is probably "up in
lights" in the press somewhere each and every day, and all of it is positive.

Our reputation in the industry is, and always has been, stellar, and we
cherish our authors, as their number steadily grows. We have had,
throughout our history, very few problems of any kind. In our hundreds of
thousands of business transactions, we have had an extraordinarily small
number of complaints, and to our knowledge, all have been resolved. We are
growing rapidly, with upwards of a million books sold, in physical brick
and mortar bookstores and elsewhere.

We would, however, be interested in coherent reasons for your making such
an unusual request. Depending on your reasoning, and your level of
politeness, we may reconsider your request at our next review meeting, to
be held at our leisure. Please email your polite query to
support@publishamerica.com
<hr />
<img border=0 src="http://www.absolutewrite.com/images/emoteHammer.gif" />I’ve heard all of this before, and it’s getting old. I also wanted to add that I’m one of the many that signed the petition, and I’ll be forming some other letters to send to the appropriate authorities very soon.

Well folks, I’ve got to be going for now. Take care everyone.

Sincerely,
Tim<img border=0 src="http://www.absolutewrite.com/images/EmoteHeadbang.gif" />

[lindylou45]

Another example of the "Don't take that tone with us" letter. Sorry you had to go through that, Tim. At least you can feel a little better knowing that you are in good company.

Good luck in getting your rights back.

[arrowqueen]

I love the tone of PA letters:

'Don't you speak to me like that, young man! Of course there's a Tooth Fairy - and if I hear any more nonsense to the contrary, I'm going to smack your bottom!'

Very professional.

[Risseybug]

Ack. That's all there is to say about that.

Can you get some kind of "cease and desist" letter sent to them by your attorney?
Somebody needs to sepina their asses in a civil suit. Pain and suffering, anything! I'd like to see them ignore a sepina. Actually, I would like it, b/c then they'd have to go to jail.

Sigh.

[CaoPaux]

Speaking of things we've heard before...re: B&N refusal to stock POD books: www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/6506.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/6506.htm)

In a similar but sadder vein:

www.publishamerica.com/cg...l/1717.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/general/1717.htm)

[priceless1]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Do not address us in such a tone.<hr></blockquote>
Tim, I warned you this would be their first sentence. At least you've taken the first steps and that's the important thing. Upward and onward, my friend.

[ncq13]

As if my day were not miserable enough, my proofs arrived from PA. Would any one care to see them so they can add another file to their documentation disproving the PA "edits line by line," statement? Even my acknowledgments are atrocious!
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!:head

[AnneMarble]

t appears that PA has authors tracking the number of rip-off reports and leaving rebuttals in an attempt to convince folks that PA offers a wonder service with no upfront fees. Yet, they fail to mention, the balloon installment plan authors are coerced into later, receiving no royalties or inadequate royalties without an explanation.

I only saw one rebuttal -- the one with the header "rip off fanisty presses." Were there others? Or have they been removed since?

BTW the theory in that rebuttal is a new one to me. This person thinks that PublishAmerica's critics are vanity publishers who are losing money to PA, including mom and pop operations? Uhm. No. You can look in my apartment. All you'll find are dirty laundry, books, and dust. I have a small laser printer, but I am not supposed to print more than 100 pages a month on that cartridge. Not much good as a printing press.

Even better, search for Victoria Strauss, A. C. Crispin, James Macdonald, etc. on Amazon.com. You'll find that they are writers who were published by companies you have probably heard of.

[ncq13]

Anyone who wants to go toe to toe on the PA issue can have a look at my horrendous proofs. There isn't a self-respecting publisher out there that would accept a novel in the condition mine is in, let alone put it through the publishing process.:grr

[CaoPaux]

Forgive for me asking, ncq, but is the "atrocious" text as you submitted it, or did PA mangle it?

[Risseybug]

That second thread is already gone.
BTW, how many times can the Logo say "B&N purchases from us every day."?

And the number of books that B&N orders per week - a whopping 200. Sorry, but that number seemed like a pittance to me. With, what is it now, 9000 happy authors with 9000 books, they only manage to get orders for 200 from their "largest customer"? I have to think that they order books buy the thousands from real publishers. The authors are too blind to see.

Again, I repeat: Ack.

[BeckEaston]

If you send in too many proofs changes, they will come back and tell you that you cannot change it at this point. I know, I've been there. I hired a big firm to edit my book in the alloted 15 days. I sent back the revisions and PA refused to change them. I told them that I would pay for it and PA refused. They gave me 24 hours to make all the changes myself and after I quite literally spent all evening making them, they used the first manuscript and not the edited one to print the book. Challenging? You bet. DON'T let them do that to you!!!

By the way, how'd you get the numbers of how many B&N picks up each day from PA?

[Whachawant]

In our hundreds of
thousands of business transactions, we have had an extraordinarily small
number of complaints, and to our knowledge, all have been resolved.

Yeah... I bet...! I think what they're talking about is the number of deposits to their own bank account.

They also state that they're up-wards of over a million books sold. Hmmm!.. 9,000 authors 100 books each author. Now what are the odds this is happening.

Do you also not find it odd that they have a form letter of rebuttal ready and waiting to be sent out to anybody who apposes them?
Could you see the manager taking inventory on this?
"O.K. guys were low on the 'Don't take that tone with us...' letters. Better increase the stock!

[Timothy W Johnson]

<img border=0 src="http://www.absolutewrite.com/images/EmoteHug2.gif" />Thanks everyone,

It is definitely comforting to know that I’m in good company at AbsoluteWrite. Everyone here seems to understand what it’s like to deal with garbage such as PublishAmerica. I just hope no one else has to go through this kind of dismal scenario.

By the way, I don’t know who you are that got your proofs back, but I’d be preparing for the worst right away.

The problem I faced when venturing into the world of publishing was this: I did so sometime after 9/11—I believe that was part of my problem. Remember the anthrax issue? Well, at that time, every Web site that had anything to do with publishing was stating, “due to the events of 9/11 we will not be accepting queries via regular mail” (I saw this on a Christian Web site). Anyway, it would either be the above reason or the fact that you needed an agent—even both on some sites.

Back then, however, I didn’t know very much about this kind of business (not saying that I know a lot now…just more than I did). But if there’s one thing that I learned from all of this, it’s you can’t afford to take shortcuts when it comes to publishing (even though I didn’t realize it was a shortcut at that time). And PA is nothing but a shortcut—and a bad one at that.

Yeah…shortcuts…just like with anything in life. You take them…you pay.

Take care ya’ll,
Tim

[DeePower]

email me at authors@brianhillanddeepower.com

A group of unsatisfied authors who have books published by PublishAmerica and feel they were misled by PA's claims are doing something about it.

Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com (http://www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com)

[Risseybug]

Dee,
That number was written on the PA boards, in the first thread linked up this page a bit. Logo has a whole big speil about how the hatemongers keep picking on the poor PA people. That B&N has no such policy of not ordering POD or non-returnable books.
That number of 200/week came straight from the top.

[CaoPaux]

I knew I shoulda copied that second thread. :smack

The initial post was along the lines of "bookstores won't order my book because it's POD, but PA says they're not POD, so what's up?" The lengthy response from a fellow author attempted to differentiate between print-on-demand and publish-on-demand. :(

[BeckEaston]

All PA authors and other authors only need to click on this link to see what PA is saying is tantamount to yet another lie.

www.sfwa.org/beware/printondemand.html (http://www.sfwa.org/beware/printondemand.html)

[ncq13]

To be honest, a little of both. I have been doing a lot of work over the past year on a new novel which I have had critiqued a couple of times and I have learned a great deal as a result. First of all, I suffer from comma vomit-itis. While the condition is not fatal, it can be a major stumbling block for readers. My PA proofs are certainly a literary documentary of my worst case.
The story (my PA book) is really quite good and original, but a real editor would run screaming from room if forced to read it in its current state. In addition to the novel needing a good revision, some simple words seem to have been "switched" from the original version. I'm only a couple of pages in to the proofs and I honestly don't plan on going any further. As the novel stands, it is NOT publishable in my humble opinion.

[Timothy W Johnson]

I emailed you, Dee. Just let me know what to do.
<img border=0 src="http://www.absolutewrite.com/images/emoteHammer.gif" /><img border=0 src="http://www.absolutewrite.com/images/emoteHammer.gif" /><img border=0 src="http://www.absolutewrite.com/images/emoteHammer.gif" /><img border=0 src="http://www.absolutewrite.com/images/emoteHammer.gif" />

[HapiSofi]

ncq13, I'd be very interested in hearing the details of the changes PA made in your manuscript, and the glitches they failed to catch.

[CaoPaux]

Heh. The Logo may have blown the same smoke once too often: the authors are calling on PA to supply them with the name of the B&N Vice President and/or a copy of the "policy" letter to show local store managers. :p

[BeckEaston]

Is there a corporate B & N Policy I knew nothing about?

[ncq13]

Hapi, you have mail. Should I decide to go through the proofs more carefully this weekend, rather than printing them and burning them in effigy, I'll post examples here.

[CaoPaux]

From the thread I posted a couple days ago: www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/6506.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/6506.htm)
-----
Danielle
11/02/2004
14:10:43

Barnes and Noble told me they are no longer going to carry PA. books because of PA. no return policy and they are a print on demand company. That also includes no booksignings from PA. authors also. This is so strange because when I notified them of the book being released in the summer they wanted me to do a booksigning. Then all of the sudden decided to not go through with it. What a crock!

I wonder if PA. knows this. Are you there PA? Do you what B&N is doing?

Danielle

-----
PatriciaJohnston
11/02/2004
14:17:12

Danielle,

Is that B&N nationally? Or your local B&N?

Patricia
Divine Shout!
www.pcjnovel.com
www.freewebs.com/pwjnovel/

-----
Danielle
11/02/2004
14:21:10

Nationally. The manager of my local store said it is B&N policy now to not carry books that can not be returned or from a print on demand company.

Danielle
PA......where are you?.......

-----
infocenter
Administrator
11/02/2004
15:14:29
Danielle,

Contrary to what you may have been told by a local Barnes and Noble bookstore manager, they have no such policy at all, and they do not categorize PublishAmerica as anything other than what we are. Not only does Barnes and Noble have no policy against stocking print on demand books, Barnes and Noble actively enbraces the entire concept of Print On Demand.

Barnes & Noble, being the nation's largest bookstore chain, orders books from us virtually each and every day. In fact, they are our single largest customer. Bookstores order a PublishAmerica book more than 240 times each business day. Barnes & Noble, the nation's largest bookstore chain, typically places between 150 and 200 orders for PublishAmerica books each week.

We see lots of misconceptions, in this thread and elsewhere, on the returnability issue. The facts refuting this are very plain and easy to offer as evidence. Non-returnable books are the direction that the industry is taking, and what you're hearing is not at all true, of course. Just as one example, PublishAmerica has an account with Barnes and Noble and many other bookstores, including chains, and they buy our books all the time.

Please see this thread and many others like it, and the additional info below:

www.publishamerica.com/cg...n/8622.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/8622.htm)

No publisher guarantees book sales to bookstores. Major chain bookstores have no policy against stocking non-returnable books. Actually, Barnes and Noble buys from us each and every day. Thousands, each and every month, of PublishAmerica books are sold in bookstores. Hundreds of bookstores across the nation stock our books.

PublishAmerica books have the same chance of making it onto a bookstore shelf as do the books of any publisher. It may be of interest that less than one percent of all authors ever see their books stocked by bookstores at all. For bookstores to stock all books published would mean adding 15 feet of new shelf space each and every day.

Therefore bookstore managers must be selective, so they decide based on what that they think will sell. If they do think it will sell, they will stock it, and vice versa. So, if your book is romance and the store's shelves are overflowing with romance novels, the odds are they won't stock it. And, if your book is a history of agriculture in Tupelo County, Mississippi, the bookstore manager in Seattle may feel the same way.

Bookstores will generally stock a book that they think will sell, regardless of whether it is returnable or not, and regardless of whether it is printed on digital or offset presses.

Please do not judge a bookstore's corporate policy by what one local manager or one letter tells you. You can find stories on our website about, for example, two Borders locations in one town: one manager insists that he cannot carry a book, the other orders 40 copies. Bookstore managers are human, they have strengths and weaknesses like all of us, they can make good judgment calls and bad ones. One will like your book, the other may not.

Also worthy of note, most of your books are physically, actually, in stock at Ingram, with copies in their Oregon and Tennessee warehouses, and at a Barnes and Noble distribution center, ready to ship immediately.

A Vice President at Barnes and Noble wrote us a letter, saying, "We very much believe in print-on-demand (POD) technology as a cost-effective tool available for publishers to extend the range of their title offerings to Barnes & Noble... We believe that POD represents an opportunity to increase the range of titles we offer... We will continue to stock every title that you publish, which enables us to rapidly replenish our stores..."

-----
allen
11/02/2004
15:33:31

Perhaps I am the exception, but I doubt it. There are two B and N stocking my book. There may be more, but I have seen it in the two local stores.

I am a also stocked at both of the independent stores.

To get in this position, I did the following.

1. I wrote a salable book that was of broad interest that also had a ready-made nitch market.

2. I started developing a larger following by getting review copies into the hands of magazines specifically placed to help my sales in the niche market. I collected the reviews and interviews from the magazines.

3. I contacted all of the website owners in the niche market and requested that they include my book in their sales area, whether it be in a book association area or a stocking area.

4. With this in place, a sale or two under my belt, and a track record of recognition, I began to inquire to the book stores in my area. I started with asking them to stock two books. Most were happy to do that. Once the sales started, I requested a book signing. Form then on, the job was on automatic pilot.

Anyone that thinks an author just writes a book and waits for the money to roll in is naive. The best marketing tool available for a book is the author. Why do you think the big houses require the authors to do appearances? Why do the well known authors have publicists?

At PA, we have some hoops to jump through, just like every other company. Ours are different, but certainly are not any more unsurmountable than the larger houses. We simply have to work at being successful.

Now, success is different to each person. I define success at making a small difference in people's lives, at making people smile, even if it is just a small length of time. Success is offering people an opportunity to view into my world and find some joy.

Others will judge whether I am successful or not.

Just a thought from the Palatial futon atop the mountainous soap box... Allen

----
skyrocket
11/02/2004
15:39:00

I really appreciate this post and PA responding so comprehensively...I have printed out the response for future reference. I, too, have experienced local objections from B&N book signings managers...The one in Princeton was downright nasty, like "we are elitists" and don't carry PA books...Well I know that is not a fact but I did not want to antagonize the situation any further. But PA is right it becomes a "local" thing which needs to be worked on...I think the same problem exists with Borders Books.. It depends upon whom you run into and how they are feeling on that particular day...But PA's response will be very good to use in these situations...Sky

-----
JeanMarie
11/02/2004
15:46:33

I have a suggestion for you as I experienced the exact same situation with my local B & N. It ticked me off, so, I followed through and called corporate in NY. I was contacted several days later and told I could submit my book for acceptance to their small press dept. Eventually I'll do that. In the meantime, I went 3 miles down the road(same side of the street)to Borders. They are stocking my book as well as there reading groups are ordering 100 and I'm scheduled to speak to both groups the beginning of Feb. It depends on whom the community relations/mgr. is as everyone has had differing experiences with B & N. By the way, Borders purchased the books, not me. They believe in supporting local authors. Give it a try.

Jean
Threads In Time
www.jeanmariewiesen.com

-----
Illeana
11/03/2004
20:57:12

Hi Danielle, I think you should talk to the Distric manager of the store because they are picking up my book, and my signing is on January 28th at 8:00PM at Aventura Miami FLorida as Mike told me he will be ordering about 100 to 150 books, now if in the event that for some reason they don't sell which I doubt it because I have been there for almost a year now doing readings, but I told them I will pick them up at a discount price, see if they pick your book they do promotions like posters banners press releases, so don't let one person take control and search some more Im sure you will do just great
as always
Blessed Be
Illeana

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JD Russell
11/03/2004
23:56:28

PA Infocenter quote:

"A Vice President at Barnes and Noble wrote us a letter, saying, "We very much believe in print-on-demand (POD) technology as a cost-effective tool available for publishers to extend the range of their title offerings to Barnes & Noble... We believe that POD represents an opportunity to increase the range of titles we offer... We will continue to stock every title that you publish, which enables us to rapidly replenish our stores..."

Okay, after visiting the local B&N and hearing the "No we do not stock POD", what do we do at that point?

You make it sound like it is not the case but it is the case in most instances. B&N can't have that many uninformed managers working for them.

Infocenter, you stated a vice president at B&N wrote a letter but you never named the vice president.

I would think the vice president would be willing to accept calls from local bookstore managers to verify what you have stated as fact to help us get past the roadblock.

The PA authors need a copy of letter signed by the vice president instructing the bookstore managers who to contact at the B&N headquarters to eliminate this problem. Either it is true B&N will stock our books or they will not stock our books. Something is wrong with the picture of what you are stating and the reality of what the authors are facing at the bookstores.

Just saying a vice president wrote a letter is not the same as saying have them contact 'Mr. or Mrs. so and so' to solve the problem.

Your help in finding a solution to this continuous problem with B&N bookstore managers would greatly appreciated by me and I'm sure almost 9000 other authors experiencing the same problem.

Thank you,

JD Russell

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Gary Varner
11/04/2004
00:04:28

I believe that the "no return" policy is simply used as an excuse. Dover Publications, a publisher that has been around for years and publishes mostly history, nature and craft books has a strict non-return policy but you will find their books in most every major bookstore. PA is right--the no return policy is becoming more common and is not a reflection on the importance or quality of the publisher or the book.

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Danielle
11/04/2004
00:27:32

JD,

You have hit the nail on the head! We don't know what to do. The funny thing is this lady had asked me to do a book signing in July and I told her that the book was do out in August. She told me to call her after the book was out. At the time I was features in 4 newsarticles and on the local news and think that had something to do with her wanting to do the book signing. I didn't contact her because I was nervous about the book signing until I spoke with a few authors and they encouraged me to do it and what ever happened happened. Recently, when I called her she told me that I never spoke to her dispite the fact I wrote her name and ext. # down in July.

I am half minded to to contacted the news media again and see if they will do a follow up on the book and have freinds and family go into the store a request the book. Maybe then she will realize what she turned away from. My problem is that B&N is the only bookstore in my area. I amy just contact PA. and ask if they have a number for the headquarters and see if I can obtain a list of other B&N stores and contact all of them and see if they would be will to give the book a chance. Then when I have a few stores that stock the book call her back and question her reply.

Danielle

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herman
11/04/2004
01:37:28

Methinks PA Infocenter Administrator's reply says a lot, quote:
"For book stores to stock all books published, that would mean adding 15 feet of new shelf space each and every day." {True}

Furthermore, "Bookstores will generally stock a book that they think will sell, regardless of whether it is returnable or not, and regardless of whether it is printed on digital or offset presses." {Of course we live in a capitalist free market system}

After any ambitious POD authors read these important quotes coming from PA, we cannot help but want to write greater quality books that find themselves to the bookshelves of major bookstores on their own merits. But to turn an author away at the door based on a book's genre, or how a particular manager feels, is to say the least, ridiculous.
Herman

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HB Marcus
11/04/2004
02:53:47
I responded to this thread at the exact time PA info center did. Unfortunately my post didn't go up.

JD and Danielle, what I wrote was basically "managers are liars". They don't want to be bothered with some new author who calls or walks in and asks to be stocked. Do you realize how many self published authors are out there begging store to store because they can't get distributed?

Each store is different. Each manager doesn't want to get into trouble to help out a struggle new author. You have to prove that you have a marketable product that they can make money from and show the big bosses how industrious they are. You need to carry a promotional packet with you to see these managers. You have to show them your reviews. You have to show them how the book is selling and you have to sell yourself.

The bottom line is that managers don't want to be bothered and they will lie to you. Make them a contract that says if they stock your book for a certain amount of time and it doesn't sell, you'll buy it from them. The fact is they do stock POD titles...if you call their boss and tell them the lie they told you.

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Danielle
11/04/2004
08:24:53

I offered to buy back any books that didn't sell and she still said no. I think it is because the at the time we first spoke I was fresh in her head from all the media attention I was receiving. Oh I am not giving up I am going to be a pain in their neck. Soon or later they will stock the book. If it is only to get me off thier backs. I don't give up ao easily. I just think lies are uncalled for.

Danielle

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DJ
11/04/2004
09:21:27

I contacted my local barnes and noble about a week ago. They are doing a booksigning in November. The CRM was going to order my book for the signing but I was informed my book was out of stock, out of print for good. I contacted PA and was told that is not true at all. My book is in print. So I won't be doing the book signing with barnes and noble in November. I think this is sad because with Christmas coming I think signed copies of my book would make great Christmas gifts.

So I have tried several other barnes and nobles and none so far will order my book, and if I try to order it online I get an email a couple of days later telling me my book is not available. So, I am sending people that want my book to PA.

Barnes and Noble had several copies of my book on the shelf, they have sold, but they won't order anymore because it keeps coming back to out of stock, out of print. But I will not give up...

Donna

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JD Russell
11/04/2004
09:58:42

HB,

Thanks for the pointers and thoughts on this subject.

I'm going back to see the CRM. I happened to be in the store buying a book last night and had the lady locating a book for me pull up my book on her computer. I wanted to see how my book looked on their computer inventory system. Without asking to stock my book at the bookstore, she stated B&N typically does not stock POD books but talk to the CRM if you're wanting to try to get your book stocked.

However, I do have my book stocked at an independent bookstore in town.

All I'm saying is that PA is evidently hearing something different up the B&N food chain than we are hearing at the local level.

"We will continue to stock every title that you publish, which enables us to rapidly replenish our stores..."

The statement above is useless to use without having the key person named as the B&N contact. Why go to a regional person when PA states they have a vice president advocating stocking PA books?

We should be given a standard letter from PA noting the B&N vice president contact information to hand to the local bookstore manager to contradict their canned statement.

When the B&N local staff states the same thing as a manager, it appears to be a known company policy that contradicts PA's statement.

I do agree a book should be stocked on it's merit and having the potential to sell.

Just looking for some help from PA to get the book stocking possibility down to merit and potential consideration without having to battle the POD issue with the local manager.

Either the vice president is advocating PA books or he / she is not.

-----
Scribe 75
11/04/2004
10:33:06

Just to add to the general confusion--I asked our local private bookstore to do a signing for me. They said maybe, depending on whether they liked the book. Then, now that pre-release copies can be ordered, a friend went in and asked them to order the book. They said they would, reluctantly, and quoted her $31.95. The price after pre-release will be $21.95! When she told me, I told her to cancel. Then I called the store and the owner said (when I suggested they order direct from PA) they never ordered anywhere except from Ingram, that there was a no-return policy, and thus they didn't like to order such material. I asked if there was a minimum order from Ingram (knowing the answer) and she admitted there was not. I wanted to ask her what her risk would be if she ordered at the regular price, but like the rest of you, didn't want to irritate her more. As for signings, they have decided not to do any for local authors any more because "too many Burke County people are writing books." All of this is a distinct change from 2 years ago when they stocked a self-published title that I was co-editor of for as long as it was selling, a year ago held a signing and stocked another self-published book, and now they won't touch mine.
All the discussion about B & N variations in policy is confusing as well. As soon as my copies arrive I plan to try the nearest B & N.
Incidentally, all press releases I have sent out have yielded nothing at all. The last self-published author in the neighborhood never answered a letter I sent asking for a review--and I've met him socially as well as having been interviewed by him for the above mentioned book I helped edit! So to all whose publicity efforts are succeeding, I send hearty congratulations!
Joan
SETTLING
ISBN 1-4137-4019-7

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Joyce Ann
11/04/2004
11:53:37

Here's the address Barnes&Noble gives on their website entitled "Getting Your Book in Barnes & Noble." It's worth looking into.

Go to: www.barnesandnobleinc.com...tting.html (http://www.barnesandnobleinc.com/authors/advice/ac_getting.html)

They say: "All books will be considered for store placement based on subject matter and salability. Please consider the following points when publishing and presenting your book."

Then they give a number of points:

Does it have a bar code?
What sort of binding, etc.?
Is your book available through a wholesaler?
Is your book priced competitively, etc.
Why should B & N place your title on its shelves?
Where can you find more information, etc.?

If you would like your title to be considered for store placement, please submit a finished copy (no manuscripts) of the book along with marketing and promotion plans, trade reviews, and a note describing how the book meets the competition (what makes it unique?)

Address the packet to:

The Small Press Department
Barnes & Noble
122 Fifth Avenue
New York, NY 10011

I did this and will let you know what they tell me because they say they respond to all requests in writing. I would suggest we try it!

Joyce Ann Edmondson
The Listening Tree
www.freewebs.com/jaebooks (http://www.freewebs.com/jaebooks)

-----

Joyce Ann
11/04/2004
12:00:56

OK, the website has been removed or doesn't work for me, but the address may be accurate. We'll just have to wait and see what they say. They say it takes six weeks for an answer. My packet went out yesterday.

Regrets.

Joyce Ann

-----
Scribner
11/04/2004
12:00:59

A while back B&N had an agreement with a Vanity publisher iUniverse, a POD Publisher. Because my local B&N had a table set up for their books. So I can't understand why they say they don't carry POD books.

Woodrow Walker author of
"Murder at Columbia"

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Joyce Ann
11/04/2004
12:11:51

I found it by typing in the words: Getting your book in Barnes & Noble on Google. It is there and gives the information above.

www.barnesandnobleinc.com...tting.html (http://www.barnesandnobleinc.com/authors/advice/ac_getting.html)

so if you can't get it by using this address I copied and pasted, go to Google and get it there.

Joyce Ann

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sherrymoore
11/04/2004
12:40:56

Hi! I was also told by the local B&N's here in Colorado that they would not physically carry my book nor would I be allowed to do a book signing because my book was POD. I also was told this by another large chain here in Colorado (Tattered Cover) and by Borders. I have visited and called several locations and have gotten exactly the same response. When I emailed PA I recieved an email that said what was listed above and so I sent that to the managers of the book stores. One manager went as far as telling me that I am being misled by my publisher. I tried to tactfully discuss it with that manager but it didn't change anything. I also have been rejected for reviews by my local newspapers because my book is "POD". Even the NY Times book editor, who is supposed to have a connection to PA refused to review my book because it is "POD". I don't get it!

I have had a huge response from eveyone who has read my book and have been doing lectures in schools and soon a library. I am glad that people love my book, but I'm very disappointed that my book will never be able to reach out to anyone who visits any of the bookstores in my city.

By the way - I was told to submit my book to the small press for B&N and they immediately rejected it saying it was not the same quality as books on their shelves. I'm sorry, but I have seen some of the books on their shelves and my book far surpasses some of them! I love what PA designed for my cover as well - it is very professional and eye-catching.

Sherry Moore

www.publishedauthors.net/sherrymoore

----

The bold in the last message is my own emphasis. Now taking bets on how much longer this thread lasts. :rolleyes

[priceless1]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>JD and Danielle, what I wrote was basically "managers are liars". They don't want to be bothered with some new author who calls or walks in and asks to be stocked.<hr></blockquote>
HB is so wrong on this count. Managers aren't liars, they're in the business to sell good quality books. That is what keeps customers coming into their stores. If a store consistently sells books that aren't viable or competitive, where does that put their reputation?

Of course managers are willing to host signings for new authors; they do it for us all the time. But, like anything else, one has to play the game in order to compete. That translates to a return policy, comptetitve pricing and discounts, and immediate fulfillment.

I fear JD Russell's future posting rights could be in jeopardy. He simply makes too much sense and asks the right questions.

[FM St George]

I feel for the poor bookstore managers in HB's area.

can you imagine the scene when he walks into their store?

argh.

silly boy.

:P

[XThe NavigatorX]

The above quoted thread had several posts in it deleted over the past two days including these two posts, both of which were posted before the logo posted and disappeared immediately thereafter:

Danielle
11/02/2004
14:21:10
RE: Barnes and Noble decision
Message:
Nationally. The manager of my local store said it is B&N policy now to not carry books that can not be returned or from a print on demand company.
Danielle
PA......where are you?.......

The Fox
11/02/2004
14:21:26
RE: Barnes and Noble decision
Message:
Danielle, at the risk of PA pulling this comment, I will go ahead anyways, and Infocenter, if you are reading, instead of pulling this, or my account, prove me wrong...please.
Don't be shocked if bookstores don't stock your book, or offer you booksignings, about 90% of bookstores won't stock your book because it's a POD. The stores that will stock your book (Which is a rare instance, no matter what PA says, I've spoken to bookstores) You need to do all the legwork to get it in stock, and those are going to be your local bookstores.
I'm having trouble getting my books on shelves, and setting up signings.
My local bookstore was interested in a signing, until they called Ingram. Ingram told them that my book was a POD, and they'd have to back order, that's even what it says when I go through the automated system.
It's a tough situation, you have a sell your book (literally) to your local stores to ever see it on the shelves
Like I said to Infocenter, and everyone else reading this, prove me wrong... How did you get your book on the shelves?

[XThe NavigatorX]

btw, you can always tell when the Logo has messed with a thread. The listing states there's 28 posts in the thread, but if you count you'll see there's only 25. That means three were deleted.

This thread here has almost 3,000 posts! Wow.

[CaoPaux]

PA's having to move fast to keep up.

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jae3471
11/04/2004
13:32:10

Sherry, did they keep your book? What a waste of money and time for you, and probably for me as well.

At least B & N offered me a "group signing" with local first-time authors. That will be interesting to see what the books are that I will be signing with, as well as the authors! They said they would send me an email in April and that they were "booked" up before that. Looks like it's up to the local store what they will or will not do, and that's what PA said.

I think I will contact the rest in the area and see if they have first-time author signings as well. I'll post it if they do.

Joyce Ann

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jterru
11/04/2004
13:32:46

Danielle,

I'll continue to monitor your progress, since I haven't even seen a proof yet. I don't have a B&N store in my area, but it makes me wonder if any others (i.e. Hastings, Waldon Books) would do the same thing?

Allen: Thanks for the marketing tips; I'm sure they will help once I'm published.

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oldworldinspired
11/04/2004
14:19:51

Wow, reading this post makes me really nervous. I have heard a lot of good things about PA as far as how the books look but now I am pretty depressed. I was concerned about this early on and wrote PA a letter and got the above letter mentioned. I am feeling like I really rushed into something that I shouldn't have. I was offered a contract by **** and chose to go with PA because of the time difference in book publication. My family kept telling me that I should wait and be patient but I wrote PA several letters and was assured of certain things before I signed my contract. Now I feel as though I have put myself in the famous "We told you so" catagory. Okay, I am really bummed! (I didn't put the publisher because I didn't know if that is allowed on these boards)
Mem

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oldworldinspired
11/04/2004
14:54:03

The worst part of this is that I am one of those starving artist (okay modest, I'm not really starving) and the other publishing company offered a "nice" advance. I thought (against my husbands will) that I would be better off too get it out and about quicker. Oh Lord, somebody hang me.....

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HB Marcus
11/04/2004
15:06:57

oldworldinspired,
Being a starving artist means that you made the right choice. Without the proper amount of promotion no book can do well. Getting an advance means nothing if the book is pulled from the shelves. Most traditional publishers will pull your book from the shelves after a couple of months if it doesn't sell. If you don't promote, it won't sell.

With PA you have plenty of time to the contract in which to resonably promote your book no matter how modest your income is. Being a new name means you don't get all the promotional dollars the big name authors get with PA or the traditional publishers. With either way you go you are expected to promote your own book. The difference is that PA gives you a reasonable amount of time to do it.

You could be a 'special order only' title by now if you went the other way. It could be over. I think you made the wise choice.

DON'T TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER FOLKS!!!

-----

Note: oldworld’s posts were deleted about the time HB posted….

[publishorperish]

HB's sage advice is that it was better for that author to forgo the advance?? Because her books might be pulled off the shelf?? WTF? PA won't even place her books on shelves. HB is an idiot.

[ProandCon]

HB sounds like he is the only cheerleader and he's having to work overtime to counter the tough questions.

He may just get on the next NYT ad for his efforts for what it's worth. Maybe a nickle if that much!

Everytime PA pulls a post asking questions a few more authors wise up on the board. PA is doing a good job of tightening the noose around their neck.

On a more dire note:

I find it interesting that Behler Publications gets into the PA fray. They must have deep pockets to fend off possible tort interference in another company's operation.

P&C
Keeping my enemies close

[ProandCon]

HB wrote:

"With PA you have plenty of time to the contract in which to resonably promote your book no matter how modest your income is. Being a new name means you don't get all the promotional dollars the big name authors get with PA or the traditional publishers."

Is HB saying there is a difference between PA and traditional authors?

It appears that is what he is saying; otherwise he would have said "or the other traditional publishers"

Maybe all the overtime being the head cheerleader is getting to him!

[ncq13]

P&C,
While I can not speak for Lynn or Behler I can say that since Lynn is an author, formerly published by PA, she has a personal interest in this thread. The fact that Lynn was able to take her lemon from PA and make Behler Lemonade does not mean that she REPRESENTS Behler publications on this thread.

[ProandCon]

Kate,

I understand what you are saying and don't disagree with your thoughts on the subject. I watched the flame war and the fallout after Lynn left PA. She seems like a nice person who smelled a rat at PA and beat them at their own game. However, she shouldn't be signing her company's name under her name unless her pockets are deep.

To me and I'm sure visitors to the AW site who don't know any better, it implies that her company and not her as an individual is battling PA.

If I was PA, I would be talking to my lawyer and asking if there is a possible tort interference underway because they are both publishers.

Nothing like stirring up a little discussion on this board.

Keep smiling that pretty smile Kate and keep going. You have the attitude to win in this business.

P&C

[Sher2]

If I was PA, I would be talking to my lawyer and asking if there is a possible tort interference underway because they are both publishers.

I don't see anything tortious in what she said. I think it would take a lot more than that to get PA into a courtroom -- and subject to discovery.

[DeePower]

From PublishAmerica

We are so excited to announce Agathe Von Trapp joining you as a PublishAmerica author!

She is the author of the book "Agathe von Trapp: Memories Before and After 'The Sound of Music'".

Ms. Von Trapp and her siblings, her father, and her stepmother Maria have been immortalized by the movie The Sound of Music. Agathe was the oldest sister in the chorus of singing Von Trapps. The movie highlighted the brave escape of her family from Nazi Austria during the Hitler years. At the time of its release, the movie was the most successful box office hit of all time, a record that remained unbroken for seven years.

To this day, almost 40 years later, Julie Andrews' career continues to be defined by her role as Agathe's nanny. Agathe is telling us what really happened behind the scenes during the years covered by the film, and on her relationship with both her father, her real mother, and her stepmother.

After a disappointing attempt at self publishing, her agent contacted PublishAmerica to see if we would provide a home to Ms. Von Trapp's book.

We did not hesitate. Agathe Von Trapp, who is in her nineties, has vigorous plans to actively promote her work, just like so many of her fellow PublishAmerica authors.

She is still giving lectures, doing book signings, and conducting workshops throughout the country.

We welcome this living legend into our midst!

******************************************

Her agent contacted PA!!!

Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com (http://www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com)

[Sher2]

We welcome this living legend into our midst!
******************************************
Her agent contacted PA!!!

Lord, have mercy! That agent oughta be run outta town on a rail. Can you imagine this poor little old lady going door to door with a load of books on her back, begging somebody to please buy one? If she has a stroke after all the bookstores she has to contact on her own tell her "No," maybe PA and the so-called agent can be co-defendants in a wrongful death suit.

[CaoPaux]

Von Trapp’s book was previously published by Providence House. But I thought PA didn’t do reprints…. :rolleyes

-----
www.providence-publishing.com/index.html (http://www.providence-publishing.com/index.html)

We Want You to Make a Profit!
The book distribution infrastructure punishes authors with excessive discounts aimed at increasing the profits of retailers. We encourage authors to sell books directly to their readers so they can reap more substantial financial returns. We have found that special sales are a much more effective method of achieving financial success. Many of our authors have been immensely successful and have returned to produce subsequent books with us—they find the process so rewarding that they can’t wait to publish their next title.

Marketing Services
Marketing requires a lot of work.
At Providence Publishing, we have learned that an author's willingness to promote his or her book will ultimately determine the book's success or failure. Our goal is to empower authors with effective marketing advice and distribution support to help them maximize their book's exposure and increase their profits.

-----

And here’s the PM listing: www.publishersmarketplace...ts_no=1768 (http://www.publishersmarketplace.com/cgi-bin/displayRights.pl?rights_no=1768)

-----

From frying pan to fire, IMO. Add that "agent" to the list. :ack

[priceless1]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>On a more dire note:
I find it interesting that Behler Publications gets into the PA fray.<hr></blockquote>
Your concerns are puzzling, P&C. Re-read my post above. There isn’t anything I've said that could be construed as libelous. The definition of libel is “a false publication, as in writing, print, signs, or pictures, that damages a person's reputation.” Nowhere in any single post of mine have I ever spoken anything but the truth based on my personal experience. How has anything I’ve said damaged their reputation? HB clearly is wrong and I have company experience backing that statement up.

I won’t apologize for having my link beneath my name. This is who I am and I’m very proud to let anyone know that there are honest companies out there who will not only treat authors with the respect they deserve but will also comment on something that is fishy and plainly wrong.

Contrary to your assertions, I have always declined to get into the “PA fray” because I’ve happily moved on. But I feel it a huge disservice to allow disinformation such as HB’s comments to go unheeded and, because of my unique position, I’m in a position to give educated clarifications, which is exactly what my earlier post demonstrated.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>To me and I'm sure visitors to the AW site who don't know any better, it implies that her company and not her as an individual is battling PA.<hr></blockquote>
Obviously one of us has an interpretation problem. Nowhere have I ever indicated that I, or my company, are “doing battle” with PA. Doing battle suggests that competition exists between our two companies and that is simply laughable. We have two entirely different business plans of where our sales come from.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>If I was PA, I would be talking to my lawyer and asking if there is a possible tort interference underway because they are both publishers.<hr></blockquote>
Tort interference? Where? To suggest that I’m not entitled to an opinion because of my firsthand experience as both an ex-PA author and current co-owner of a fledgling publishing company is iniquitous. I have a wonderfully unique vantage point in which to dispel the untruths a misinformed author is trying to spread. My link is prominent only to verify my legitimacy. Nothing more, nothing less.

Relax, P&C, I have no agenda with anyone other than to help educate authors and clear up fabrications wherever they arise.

[DeePower]

It just seems odd, your posts.

Fishing for comments that might be construed as, well, litigious --in response to yours?

The bait you offer seems tasty and hard to resist. You trawl it through the waters.

I also believe I saw a misspelling here on this board that was the same as on the PA public board. Perhaps you and that person are the same?


Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com (http://www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com)

[James D Macdonald]

Personal for JD Russell:

The answer to your question about that letter from the B&N vice president is <a href="http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessageRange?topicID=209.t opic&start=1061&stop=1080" target="_new">here</a>.

<HR>

Note for everyone: This is a long thread, true, but lots of good stuff is buried in the preceeding hundred-plus pages. Take an evening and read 'em.

[BeckEaston]

Thank you Jim. I was slow. Maybe it was that morning coffee I ran out of. Hey, I printed all the pages. Good advice.

[ProandCon]

Ms. Power,

Why the thumbs down? You hurt my feelings :cry especially when what I said was a correct observation.

I like your detective work. Analyzing posts down to words in a sentence. You have too much time on your hands.

You guys know I'm right about what you are referring to even though no one steps up to the plate to agree that it doesn't look good for a professional publisher to appear to be in the PA fray regardless of Lynn's response. It reduces the professional level of her company and makes it look like she is advertising.

Send your guess to ********* and I might just give you an answer.

I respect that you didn't just start guessing names and wind up hurting someone's reputation.

I almost told Mr. McDonald one time since I trust him but it was too much hassle going through the ezboard to reach him.

Never mind about the guess, I would have to worry about you telling your buddy, Lynn. Someday I might need to submit a book to Behler Publications. LOL

I'm definitely not submitting a second book to PA.

As I said earlier I'm staying at PA to keep my enemy close. I can do more good in the long run by not saying who I am.

You know PA and the cheerleader(s) can't stand that thought. They already turn on each other trying to guess by naming authors in emails to each other. Right out of the McCarthy(sp) era.

P&C

[James D Macdonald]

Hi again, ProandCon. How's tricks?

Y'know, I'm not much into guessing games, but if I can play for a minute, are you the person JackiJo thinks she's identified? (I'm not asking you if her guess was right, I'm asking if you're the one she was talking about.)

If you do want to contact me for any reason, clicking on my name to the left will take you to a place where you can, or your can punch yog@sff.net into your regular email.

For whatever my word is worth, I'm pretty good about keeping confidences.

Now on Lynn's use of the Behler adress in her sig line -- you may be right. (And Lord knows anyone can sue anyone for just about anything. Winning a suit is a different question.) But (I am not a lawyer) I'm pretty sure Meiners isn't going to do anything that would open him up to discovery, so she and her company probably aren't going to get sued, at least not by him. There's even less chance of Meiners suing if PA is as strapped for cash as some rumors have it. Lawsuits are expensive. Especially if you lose.

Oh -- minor housekeeping -- please spell my name right, okay?

[SimonSays]

At the risk of getting slammed - I have to say I agree with Pro&Con regarding Lynn's postings on this thread.

Not because of the possiblity of litigation, but because I find it somewhat unprofessional.

As an individual - Lynn has every right to express herself regarding PA. But she has identified herself as the head of Behler, and she does put the link to her company on all her posts - so she is in fact representing the company and her role in the company and not just herself as an individual. Unlike Dave, Anne & Victoria - who's business ventures include being writer's advocates. Behler is a publishing company not a watchdog group and I think it is in questionable taste for a professional publisher who aspires to establish itself among the very best to be engaging in attacks on a forum like this - no matter how valid those attacks may be.

[DaveKuzminski]

I disagree. Lynn has as much right to express her opinions and positions as everyone else. Furthermore, I see nothing wrong with her including some of her credentials in her sig line. Yes, I see those as credentials and not advertising.

[James D Macdonald]

Needless to say, I disagree with Simon. Sig lines ... can be anything. All this one does is identify this Lynn Price as opposed to all the other Lynn Prices in the world.

[BeckEaston]

No worries or need to justify Lynn. Professionalism is in what you say and the support you lend. I have never found anything you type to be false or out of line. There is an absence of negative "tone" in your replies too. You've built yourself quite a respect among these boards and that will continue, no matter what one or two lonely writer's believe. Keep telling the truth. Your credentials only add to the credibility needed to drive the truth home.

God Bless.
:peace

[ProandCon]

Ms. Easton wrote
"no matter what one or two lonely writer's believe"

The slamming begins and under of all things God Bless.

Why the name calling on a legit observation?

If something is posted Ms. Easton that you don't like, should I always expect name calling from you? The name calling is beneath your status as a leader of the exiled PA authors.

Please remain professional. I know PA has you seeing red but please stay balanced and avoid the tags on your response. Just take a deep breath before you start typing.

Mr. Macdonald,
I apologize for not spelling your name correctly!

P&C

[winniemitzandme]

Okay, I have read these messages about Lynn and I have a couple of things to say.

First, Lynn has never posted a message asking anyone here, or on any other board where she posts, to submit to her publishing company. If she had done this, THEN and only then could someone say she is out of line. I have never read on any message board where she has ever stooped so low to do that, so that ends that.

Second, what's the big deal in Lynn adding a sig link to her publishing company? I see no difference in that than an author having their web site in their sig line. One could say they are advertising their books here or anywhere else to make a sale.

That's my two cents worth.

Violet

[BeckEaston]

Geez. I try hard never call anyone a name. I wouldn't and attacking me as "Unprofessional" just because I post my point of view is downright wrong. I hear a lot of people on these boards throw judgment around. I do not. If I offended you with my off the cuff comment. I am truly aplogetic. I was merely trying to make Lynn feel welcome to use her credentials.

Additionally, please remember that these posts are without the lightness of tone or the evenness of mood. It is merely text on a board. I wish you would not assume that I am "emotional" or "irrational" in my thoughts. It's simply not so. I just disagree with your POV. Period.

Now, the peace was for a reason. I was calm, still am so will post it again.
:peace

[SimonSays]

For me the issue is not necessarily what Lynn says as it is where she has chosen to say it.

PA has consistently proven itself to be totally unprofessional, petty and meanspirited. There is no question about that. And although Lynn, personally does not appear to do so - the fact is the discourse on this particular board often degenerates down to PA's level - with all the speculation, microanalyzing of every word, the reposting of things from the PA message boards and some making fun of their naievete, the insults, meanspritedmess and flame throwing. There's northing wrong with any of that - that's what these boards are for.

And while the regulars on this board, may not have a problem with it. Many come to these boards to actually do background checks and due diligence. These people are looking for publishers. They probably don't read every post, but cannot be blind to the tone that permeates many posts. And if they google behler and are led to this board and see all that, they may not take Lynn as seriously as she would like. I know it has turned me off somewhat.

Lynn is free to do whatever she wants. But it is advisable to dress for the position you want - and most business leaders would not be engaging in dialogues on boards such as this as representatives of their companies. And no matter what you say, by having her link in her signature - she IS representing her company.

I think it would serve her better to remain above the fray. And find a more dignified venue to express her opinions.

[priceless1]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I think it would serve her better to remain above the fray.<hr></blockquote>
People, this has taken a rather ridiculous tenor. I find it fascinating that some deem it necessary to inform me as to what my best interests are. This has the odor of one who is more interested in stirring the pot, and, yes, this is where I bow out, as it serves no professional purpose to me.

As I stated before, I am not involved in any fray, nor would I waste the time. I post only to dispel misconceptions about the publishing industry. My experiences give me every right to set the record straight when I see people who have erroneous information, as was displayed in the PA thread where HB claimed bookstore managers are liars. I still fail to comprehend how this makes me unprofessional. I go on the credo that knowledge is power. If my being involved with trying to educate authors turns you and P&C off, I guess I’ll have to see if I can live with that.

My link remains proudly underneath my name only to give credence as to my qualifications. Otherwise, one might scratch their head and wonder from where I speak.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>And find a more dignified venue to express her opinions.<hr></blockquote>
I beg your pardon? I find this board to be quite dignified. The people who lurk and post here are quite serious about their craft and if I can, in some small way, help authors gain facts about the industry, I’m very proud to do so. I thank you for taking such exhaustive care with my and my company’s well being.

[ncq13]

This is a nightmare. My proofs are a mess and the editor at PA seems to think that the changes I am requesting are "stylistic," (versus grammatical/punctuation related as I am asserting) and they refuse to make any changes-- which is a complete load of you- know- what. She can't even send and email that is free of grammatical errors and this is who is supposed to "edit" my book? YIKES! I have asked for my rights back several times on the grounds that as it stands, my novel does not meet publishing standards. I am getting no where fast. My greatest fear is that they are going to send this abomination to press without making necessary changes. This is the week from hell!

Here are some email excerpts that my "qualified editor" sent to me:

First email:
I assure you that your manuscript has been edited line for line. Per you
contract, we only edit grammar and punctuation mistakes, not anything
stylistic.

Please send me some examples of what you have found that you feel are a part
of the "myriad of grammatical errors that would probably
make a seasoned editor cringe."

At this time, I am reviewing your manuscript as well.

Most recent:
I looked at the document and what you corrected was not wrong. You
changing the way it is written is style. We do not correct style. I am not
at liberty to change your sentences to sound better or more concise,
because that is changing your style, your wording. And per policy, we can
not do that. I can change grammar and punctuation with you have already
written. So, I am asking that you send me a list of corrections, that do
not pertain to style and word changing, by the two-week deadline. I can
change things like "peak" to "peek"...that is why we have a two-week
deadline...to catch the little things...I will be awaiting your list.



:head I can't seem to get her to understand that inserting commas into a sentence does not make it a correct sentence!! She also edited sentences that were FINE!! GRRRRRR! Anyone have some words of wisdom?

[BeckEaston]

I promise you that per your contract if you ask a lawyer they HAVE to adhere to what they promised you. The absolute minute that you send back any revisions, your done. The book will be printed incorrectly. Don't go to print!!! Tell them no if you have to shout it. They have to have final say from you per your contract. It's in their print. If not they have to release you. YOU HAVE POWER! Do not give it up to see your work in print. It's worth more than that.

:head

[James D Macdonald]

Anyone have some words of wisdom?

Get with me in e-mail.

[KW]

and most business leaders would not be engaging in dialogues on boards such as this as representatives of their companies.

Try telling that to politicians. How many political ads did you see on tv where they bashed each other? I know they are not business leaders but still. I think Lynn has a right to keep her sig under her name, she is not fishing for ms. or trying to con people into going with her company.

Kevin

[SimonSays]

NCQ -

I've got an idea - I don't know if it would work, but you might want to contact PA and in a non-confrontational manner let them know that you are quite unhappy with how your book has been edited. Let them know that because of the quality of book, you have no intention of promoting your book in any way shape or form. Let them know that you have no intention of buying any copies of your book yourself or encouraging anyone else to buy it either. And that you would like out of your contract.

If they know they will not make A dime off of you, maybe they'll let you out of the contract before they spend any more money on your book. They know that they are going to do nothing to market it - so they'll realize that there will be no profits from you.

There are still expenses they will need to incur creating cover art, etc. whatever electronic typesetting needs to be done, printing and binding your author copies. It may not cost them a lot of money, but it will cost more than they will make. Maybe they'll cut their losses and let you out now.

Like I said - don't know if it will work or not - but it might.

[aka eraser]

Hmm...let's see if I understand this: It's not right for an ex-PA author/current publisher to comment on PA and/or publishing issues, but it's A-OK for a current, but anonymous PA author to post here regarding those same issues?

One posts credible information, sans malice, and is not afraid of her using her real name and established credentials.

The other...well, the other doesn't, is too afraid, and doesn't have any.

It's a head-scratcher for sure.

Lynn, if an ersatz author thinks less of you and Behler as a result of your posts here I have a hunch it just means one less rejection letter you'd have to write.

[SimonSays]

I said at least three - maybe four times that Lynn is obviously free to post what she wants where she wants.

But I think a certain amount of gravitas can be gained by seeing where a person chooses to share information. This board does often slide into snarkiness and sarcasm. It does not have the demeanor of some other venues.

You don't see the heads of the major studios posting on the Hollywood oriented boards dissecting the current Disney trial. In private many are probably gleeful at the revelations about Mr. Ovitz's tenure at the Mouse House, but as the heads of major corporations - it is inappropriate for them to join into the discourse on these boards - even if their remarks are above reproach. They may express their opinions in more dignified venues - an interview in Time, an op-ed piece on corporate avarice.

I certainly meant no disrespect toward Lynn. And hopefully for her, there are few out there (and I don't mean on these boards I mean out there beyond these boards) who share my view.

[Whachawant]

This board is about P.A. and other lousy publications.

Could we please cut the crap and stay on topic.

There is a TAKE IT OUTSIDE board if you really want to continue voicing your personal opinions of each other. Including, what you're doing right and wrong in the subject of business management.:bang
Simon you're way to uptight... relax! At least Pro&Con has somewhat of a sense of humor.

Quite frankly I could care less how the information posted is obtained and by who. ...and the sarcasm is a nice touch...

Cheers people

[SimonSays]

AKA:

"Lynn, if an ersatz author thinks less of you and Behler as a result of your posts here I have a hunch it just means one less rejection letter you'd have to write."

Frank - thank you so much for illustrating my point so beautifully.

This comment is snarky, mean-spirited and nasty. It was written to belittle and insult me and for absolutely no other purpose.

This is the atmosphere that Lynn posts in. THESE are the people that she is seen associating not only herself with, but her company as well. Even the moderators on this site behave in this manner. Not the classiest place for a publisher to be hanging out. The publishers I know hang out at Elaine's.

[ProandCon]

Aka,

ROFL :rofl

You get me every time with your jokes. You are good!

We should go fishing and have a beer if they'll let you out of Canada. I'm sure you could keep me from beating you fishing by keeping me laughing with all of your funny jokes.

I don't really care how many posts Lynn makes or comments on. She has the right to post anytime she wants to post.

I make a lot of sense even though you won't give me the credit. That's okay. I'll still go fishing with you

I call it like I see it regardless if it is PA or another issue that interest me.

I just made a couple of observations.

1. I don't see any other publishers on any of the boards I
visit. Name them if that is not the case.

2. Lynn seems like an advertisement to me when she adds her
company's name as part of her signature and then toots
her horn that she has two more books scheduled to be
reviewed in the (I think) Publisher's Weekly.

Sorry I made you pull the hook out of the water long enough to nail me as usual.

[DeePower]

Does Ingram provide monthly reports to each publisher on how many copies of each title has been sold and in what venue?

Dee
"The Making of a Bestseller: Success Stories from Authors, and the Editors, Agents and Booksellers Behind Them," Dearborn Trade, March 2005
www.BrianHillAndDeePower....eller.html (http://www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com/bestseller.html)

[BeckEaston]

Dee;

I think they provide reports as you have to contract with an account with them for them to distribute your books. I have the contract so I am sure that they have reports. You can get those online as well. It's public information.

Everyone who knows Molly Brown. She's taken a turn and is ill so has not been able to write on the boards. I'm sure she'd like to hear from ya'll. If you read this Molly, I wish you well.

:thumbs

[DaveKuzminski]

Gee, SimonSays, how about saying that to some other folks such as TNH at Making Light at URL nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/ (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/) or PNH at Electrolyte at URL nielsenhayden.com/electrolite (http://nielsenhayden.com/electrolite) since they seem to also be opinionated individuals who also work with a publishing company?

Perhaps GD at Asimov's at URL www.asimovs.com/discus/ (http://www.asimovs.com/discus/) shouldn't engage in small talk?

When it comes down to it, it appears that only your sense of decorum is infected by others appearing here to state their opinions and offer advice.

Dave Kuzminski, Knight Spirits, ISBN 1-55404-094-9, Double Dragon Publishing Inc. www.amazon.com/exec/obido...s&n=507846 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0001LJBKS/qid=1099703444/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-4603983-4301450?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)

[James D Macdonald]

Meanwhile, back at PA....

<BLOCKQUOTE>Can your book be at least ORDERED through B&N and Borders? I tried to order a PA book from my local Borders, and was told they couldn't even order it!
Has ayone else had this problem?
If our books can't be stocked or even ordered through the book stores, we've got a problem which must be addressed by PA. I'm sure PA management don't like that anymore than the authors do; after all, it means their profits will suffer.
Also, has anyone had a problem getting their book through Amazon.com?
Someone PLEASE answer. </BLOCKQUOTE>
<a href="http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/6506.htm" target="_new">Barnes and Noble decision </a>

The problem is in the switchover to the One Source program. Expect it to be done by the end of March '05. But no, PA managment won't do anything.

This is for two reasons: First, they're powerless to do anything. I'm not certain that anyone at Ingram's even returns their phone calls. Second, their profits don't have anything to do with bookstore sales. They don't care if the books can be ordered, through bookstores, except in as far as they need to claim to future happy authors that their books will be "available" in bricks-and-mortar bookstores.

What this does to PA's claim that they aren't a PoD, when Ingram is clearly treating them as a PoD, remains to be seen. I expect they'll be ignoring this one and hoping it'll go away.

I was going to say something about HB's comments in that same thread, but I think I'll do it in a separate post.

[SimonSays]

Dave -

I do not go to any of the sites you mentioned, so I don't know what the tenor of those boards are.

And incidentally I have no issue with the tenor of THIS board. I just can't imagine any of the publishing industry professionals that I know contributing to a forum such as this one because of the prevalence of nastiness and pettiness that permaeates it. I don't think they want to be seen as a part of that pettiness and nastiness - because of their professional status. I think they would choose, actually let me rephrase that, i KNOW they have chosen more dignified venues and/or to remain anonymous.

And I'm not talking about writers - I'm talking about those who are employed by or who run companies in the industry. Publishers, editors, agents, etc. For all I know their are many of them on this board, but if they are on this board - they post in such a way that they are not associating themselves with their companies - and I believe that is a much more professional way to go.

Just because you don't agree with my opinions, doesn't mean that I am evil or mean or that I don't have a right to my opinions.

[DaveKuzminski]

SimonSays, those are where they typically hang out, but they've been known to frequent other boards. When they do, and I've seen them do so, they use their names. All three I mentioned are editors. All three are well respected in the industry. I could name others, but I felt these were enough to illustrate my point.

[vstrauss]

>>2. Lynn seems like an advertisement to me when she adds her company's name as part of her signature and then toots her horn that she has two more books scheduled to be
reviewed in the (I think) Publisher's Weekly.<<

General discussion of who should post what where and why is fine (if off-topic), but the sniping at Lynn is getting tedious, and way too personal. I suggest this subject be dropped. If that's impossible, please take the discussion to the Take it Outside Board.

Thanks.

- Victoria

[SimonSays]

Well I took a gander at those sites Dave, and although I just scanned them, there does appear to be a much different tone on those boards then on this one.

Less rancourous, less emotional, less petty, more professional if you will.

When your editor friends start posting on THIS board on a regular basis and get involved with this dialogue, maybe I will change my opinion. I've been known to do that.

[ncq13]

I've got an idea - I don't know if it would work, but you might want to contact PA and in a non-confrontational manner let them know that you are quite unhappy with how your book has been edited. Let them know that because of the quality of book, you have no intention of promoting your book in any way shape or form. Let them know that you have no intention of buying any copies of your book yourself or encouraging anyone else to buy it either. And that you would like out of your contract.
Thank you Simon. I have already tried that, without success. I have a complaint on file with the BBB and I have some other legal actions in the works. I am also not opposed to launching a protest on their steps in MD if need be, though I am hopeful things will not come to that.

Becca,
Thank you for the reminder that I am not powerless in all of this. I refuse to give them final approval on my proofs and am going to take my time with them. With two small children, my freelancing jobs, and the responsibilities of caring for an ailing elder parent, I have my hands full. The last thing I need is to get twisted into knots over PA, particularly when I still hold some of the cards legally. They did, after all, fail to provide a competent and complete editing of my MS (IMHO).

[James D Macdonald]

Gordon van Gelder and Teresa Nielsen Hayden both appeared, using their real names, on Marti's short-lived board. I didn't keep copies of their posts, but I believe they were polite.

Some folks here are more polite than others, this is true. I like to think of myself as being more on the polite side, but still I don't see anything wrong with analysing the messages from the PA Infocenter, line by line.

I know of several industry professionals who post here under pseudonyms. (Some of them have psudonyms or noms-de-net of long standing from many venues, where there isn't really a big mystery about who those people are. If I were to post as "Red Mike," a name that I've used in on-line forums for well over a decade, it might not be clear to the newbies, but I wouldn't be concealing myself from those who had a bit more experience.)

Anyway...

HB says:
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>
JD and Danielle, what I wrote was basically "managers are liars". They don't want to be bothered with some new author who calls or walks in and asks to be stocked.<hr></blockquote>

He also says that PA's business model is the same as that of the traditional publishers, and traditionally published authors have to do the same things that PA authors must do to get their books on shelves.

How, then, does he explain that new authors from traditional publishers are able to get bookstore display while PA authors (himself included) can't?

HB, if you're here, would you care to answer?

Oh, briefly, back to Marti (who has my utmost sympathy, BTW). What was the big surprise she had cooked up for the bobbleheads, that she was keeping secret until she could launch it? Did that ever happen?

James D. Macdonald
http://www.navy.mil/

[SimonSays]

James - you always manage to stay above the fray. If the tenor of this board was always near or at your level of communication (or Anne's or Victoria's) - I would not feel the way I do.

[HapiSofi]

Simon said:The publishers I know hang out at Elaine's.No kidding, Simon? Which publishers would those be? And what would they be doing clear up in the East 80s, when the industry's in Midtown? Elaine's was always more of a writers' hangout. To some extent, it still is.

The publishers I know best eat overcooked cheeseburgers, chicken tandoori, bad Chinese takeout, good takeout tuna salad, and sandwiches brought from home. Respectively. When they go out for something fancier, they do go to good restaurants -- but not, so far as I know, to Elaine's. Maybe your buds are different. But in spite of the publishers I know not hanging out at Elaine's, you can find books they've published in any good bookstore you cared to name, and innumerable wire racks as well.

And now for the really big question: If you've got all these red-hot publishing connections, how come you're hanging around here?

[SimonSays]

Actually Sofi - I know two. Perhaps 'hang out' was an exaggeration I do not know their regular habits - but one of them took me there and I met the other one when I was there.

As for why I hang around here, I'd thought that would be obvious Sofi - I do it to annoy you. I have a thing for pushing the buttons of sanctimonious hypocrites such as yourself.

[HapiSofi]

(laughs merrily)

[James D Macdonald]

Still no report from the Frederick Better Business Bureau on our pals at PA: <a href="http://www.dc.bbb.org/codbrep.html?ID=7004667&cons=y" target="_new">This report is not available because it is being updated.</a>

So, kids, keep those cards and letters coming. No need to say anything here on line. Just pass the word by email to your pals who are still held in irons on the pirate ship.

And when you're sending in your facts, don't forget to inform these folks:

Office of the Attorney General
Consumer Protection Division-Beth Silverman
200 St. Paul Place
Baltimore, MD 21202