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robeiae
12-20-2006, 02:09 AM
Five nurses and one doctor to get death in Libya.

http://home.bellsouth.net/s/editorial.dll?pnum=1&bfromind=2219&eeid=5098561&_sitecat=1505&dcatid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ac=-2&ck=&ch=ne&rg=blsadstrgt

Though it appears money could make it better..

Gadhafi has tried to reach a deal by which Bulgaria would pay compensation to the victims, a proposal Sofia has rejected, saying it would imply the nurses' guilt.

But read on. It's a lovely story.

billythrilly7th
12-20-2006, 02:15 AM
That's some area of the world, the middle east, isn't it?

Nothing but constant sunshine from there.

billythrilly7th
12-20-2006, 02:41 AM
lol...I knew you or someone would compare some random mistake that happened in the United States to Libya and/or the middle east.

Good stuff.

I just don't know how some of you wake up in this awful country day after day and don't go crazy.

:Shrug:

Jcomp
12-20-2006, 02:44 AM
That's some area of the world, the middle east, isn't it?

Nothing but constant sunshine from there.

Well... it is a lot of desert...

billythrilly7th
12-20-2006, 02:47 AM
Well... it is a lot of desert...

lol...excellent point, sir.

greglondon
12-20-2006, 02:49 AM
lol...I knew you or someone would compare some random mistake that happened in the United States to Libya and/or the middle east.

Random mistake? That's a nice political spin to cover the facts.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/06/12/deathpenalty/main204759.shtml

Columbia University researchers tracked all capital convictions from 1973 to 1995, nearly 5,800 cases. They found serious errors in 68 percent. Two-thirds of death penalty cases were overturned on appeal.

billythrilly7th
12-20-2006, 02:54 AM
Random mistake? That's a nice political spin to cover the facts.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/06/12/deathpenalty/main204759.shtml

Columbia University researchers tracked all capital convictions from 1973 to 1995, nearly 5,800 cases. They found serious errors in 68 percent. Two-thirds of death penalty cases were overturned on appeal.

Nice leap from the mistake that BoP mentioned in his effort to show how we executed someone despite "International protests" which relates to the Libya situation TO...........................................http://www.eliteathletetraining.com/Gallery/Images/Broad%20Jump.jpg

.....................Our Death penalty system has made a lot of mistakes.

Well done, sir, as always.
:)

greglondon
12-20-2006, 03:18 AM
Nice leap from the mistake that BoP mentioned in his effort to show how we executed someone despite "International protests" which relates to the Libya situation TO ....................Our Death penalty system has made a lot of mistakes.

Libya sentences innocent people to death. The thread started talking about 5 nurses and 1 doctor being sentenced to death.

US sentences innocent people to death. BoP mentions one specific case where a man was executed in US before some DNA evidence could be followed up. You complain that he compares "some random mistake" to Libya. I show the statistics that say it isn't just one random mistake, but a systemic problem. You then agree that our system has made a lot of mistakes.

So, Libya sentences innocent people to death. US sentences innocent poeple to death.

Where exactly is the leap?

billythrilly7th
12-20-2006, 03:26 AM
It never ceases to amaze me how people will come to the defense of the most indefensable things as part of their "America is evil too" campaign.

Not a "What they're doing is awful."

Not a "I condemn this brutal act!"

Just pass go, go right to....

"Well, America is bad too!"

Gotta love it.

Gotta love the moral uquivalency of a death penalty error here because of an imperfect judicial system in the United States to....


TRIPOLI, Libya (AP) - A court convicted five Bulgarian nurses and a Palestinian doctor Tuesday of deliberately infecting 400 children with HIV and sentenced them to death, despite scientific evidence the youngsters had the virus before the medical workers came to Libya.

...a blatant disregard for existing science and for human life.

Oh well. Whatever helps you sleep at night when thinking about this story.

"We're bad too. We've done bad things and put the wrong people to death too."

And gotta gotta love my statement about "all the sunshine coming out of the mideast" with their beheadings, and suicide bombers and year 1103A.D. customs and practices and murder and opression of women and destroying of artificats and radical jihadism being compared to....

"Hey, there was a death penalty mistake in Texas!"

Always amusing.

SC Harrison
12-20-2006, 03:56 AM
...a blatant disregard for existing science and for human life.



I'm not defending the verdict, and I'm not trying to deflect by comparing judicial systems, but, pertinent evidence that could help prove guilt or innocence is often excluded from trials worldwide, thanks to clever lawyering.

From what I hear the DNA evidence showing the children contracted AIDS before the Bulgarian nurses arrived just surfaced in the last few weeks or so. If it's accurate, hopefully these convictions will be tossed by a judge like the last time.

It is also important to note, the families of the victims are very vocal on this issue. The government is probably trying to figure a way out of this mess without setting off a civil crisis. I hope.

billythrilly7th
12-20-2006, 03:57 AM
Billy, all that I object to is your use of the Middle East to define atrocities, as if it doesn't happen elsewhere. But let's get to the heart of the matter, which is: they haven't been executed yet.

Nor do I think they will be.

A. We are not a perfect nation, but to compare the mistakes of United States to the whacko aspects of the middle east is the height of absurdity.

B. I hope you are right.

billythrilly7th
12-20-2006, 04:09 AM
Billythrilly: sending the Middle East to Middle Earth, one bomb at a time.

Hopefully not, but we'll have to see how it goes.

Good luck, middle east.

"I hope you choose...wisely."
Kinda Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade

robeiae
12-20-2006, 06:07 AM
Wow. Just wow.

At least learn the background of cases you cite...

Vincent
12-20-2006, 06:10 AM
Well, it's actually North Africa.

oswann
12-20-2006, 01:11 PM
moral uquivalency

This is going into a sentence somewhere today.

Os.

alices
12-20-2006, 01:22 PM
moral uquivalency

This is going into a sentence somewhere today.

Os.
moral uquivalency = The right to be equally repulsive?

oswann
12-20-2006, 01:25 PM
moral uquivalency = The right to be equally repulsive?


I have no idea.

Os.

alices
12-20-2006, 01:30 PM
You have to admit, it does have a nice intellectual ring to it.

Similar to the sound of a head hitting a large brass bell.

Dollywagon
12-20-2006, 01:31 PM
lol...I knew you or someone would compare some random mistake that happened in the United States to Libya and/or the middle east.

Good stuff.

I just don't know how some of you wake up in this awful country day after day and don't go crazy.

:Shrug:

Random mistake = tragedy/miscarriage of justice/murder?

I don't think this particular guy did actually wake up.

oswann
12-20-2006, 01:40 PM
You have to admit, it does have a nice intellectual ring to it.

Similar to the sound of a head hitting a large brass bell.

:tongue

Os.

GPatten
12-20-2006, 03:55 PM
Libya lies between Egypt to the east, Sudan to the southeast, Chad and Niger to the south, and Algeria and Tunisia to the west. Libya is the fourth largest country in Africa by area. Its capital is Tripoli.

According to the U.S. Department of State’s annual human rights report for 2004, Libya’s authoritarian regime continued to have a poor record in the area of human rights.

Some of the numerous and serious abuses on the part of the government include poor prison conditions, arbitrary arrest and detention, prisoners held incommunicado, and political prisoners held for many years without charge or trial.

The judiciary is controlled by the state, and there is no right to a fair public trial.

Libyans do not have the right to change their government. Freedom of speech, press, assembly, association, and religion are restricted. Independent human rights organizations are prohibited.

Domestic violence against women appears to be widespread, and there have been reports of trafficking in persons. Ethnic and tribal minorities suffer discrimination, and the state continues to restrict the labor rights of foreign workers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libya

Does that resemble Texas? :Shrug:

greglondon
12-20-2006, 08:29 PM
A. We are not a perfect nation, but to compare the mistakes of United States to the whacko aspects of the middle east is the height of absurdity.

These nurses and doctor claim they've been made a scapegoat. Kids at the hospital got AIDS and they made a convenient target to turn any blame away from the hospital. The families of the people who got AIDS want revenge. And the government wants to give them one to make them happy.

Now, switch over to the US. Pick some tricky murder case. A bunch of people were murdered but there is no physical evidence to know with any scientific certainty who the killer is. People start coming forward with names they say committed the murders. The families of the victims want revenge. The population has become scared of a serial killer and want it stopped. The government wants to close the issue quickly so it doesn't reflect badly on them. Someone who has no alibi is named as a suspect. He is brought to trial and the jury who is caught up in the emotions of the case, convict him. After time passes, appeals courts look overturn the conviction based on a complete lack of evidence. In fact, two-thirds of all convictions for the death penalty in the US are overturned.

To look at the emotionally driven witch hunt in one country while casting the your own country as above such human weaknesses is the height of pride blinding reality.

billythrilly7th
12-20-2006, 11:29 PM
To look at the emotionally driven witch hunt in one country while casting the your own country as above such human weaknesses is the height of pride blinding reality.

I didn't.

I compared my country to the middle east.

And to compare the mistakes of the United States to the whacko aspects of middle east is the height of

:ROFL:

Duh.

Try and stop slanting a post to fit what you want to say.

For example...

I said "mistakes of the United States."

And you leaped to "casting your own country as above human weaknesses."

You either purposely just ignore or don't absorb what's being said and say whatever you want as a reponse.

It's quite fascinating.

greglondon
12-20-2006, 11:39 PM
to compare the mistakes of the United States to the whacko aspects of middle east is the height of :ROFL: Duh.


To pretend that the systematic failures of the death penalty in the US is nothing more than a simple "mistake" is the height of duh. You want to pretend that the reasons for innocent people being sentenced to death in Libya is different than the reasons innocent poeple get sentenced to death in the US, you can drink your own kool aid. But I'm not buying it.

Read the article. It mentions the families of the victims who got AIDS were enraged and wanted vengeance. Prior to the court proceedings, there were a lot of angry people who wanted the government to do something. During the announcement of the conviction, they chanted for their execution.

You think that's any different than what happens in a US murder case?

Maybe you do, if you just watch Fox News and Bill O Reilley. I was on jury duty for a murder trial. Humans aren't different just because they're on another side of some line on a map.

billythrilly7th
12-20-2006, 11:53 PM
To pretend that the systematic failures of the death penalty in the US is nothing more than a simple "mistake" is the height of duh. You want to pretend that the reasons for innocent people being sentenced to death in Libya is different than the reasons innocent poeple get sentenced to death in the US, you can drink your own kool aid. But I'm not buying it.

Dude, seriously, I'm worried about the fact that you either ignore what someone is saying on purpose, which is not a nice posting technique, or don't have a great reading comprehension ability. I really don't know.

Maybe you just see what you want to see. Maybe it's purely a reading political stuff aberration.

I'll try again....

I'm not comparing the death penalty situation in Lebanon to the death penalty situation in Texas.

I'm comparing the mistakes of the United States as a whole, from death penalty to free trade or whatever the America haters want to throw out there to the whacko aspects of the middle east as a whole.


Any death penalty case where someone innocent is put to death is very sad regardless of what country it takes place in.

robeiae
12-21-2006, 12:05 AM
Read the article. It mentions the families of the victims who got AIDS were enraged and wanted vengeance. Prior to the court proceedings, there were a lot of angry people who wanted the government to do something. During the announcement of the conviction, they chanted for their execution.

You think that's any different than what happens in a US murder case?I didn't post the article as a point of comparison. But yes, what happened here is very different from a U.S. murder case.

The children contracted aids because of failures on the part of the Libyan government. The vengeance cry was directed at these nurses because the government put the idea out that they were responsible. Originally, the Libyan government claimed the nurses and doctor were Mossad agents (but that's understandable, since Israel is evil, right?). When that fell through, the story became that the nurses and doctor were testing a new cure for aids.

The comparison here is one derived from nothing but an ideological position. And it's a joke.

greglondon
12-21-2006, 12:06 AM
I'm not comparing the death penalty situation in Lebanon to the death penalty situation in Texas.

I was. I thought I was fairly clear about that with my post that ended:


So, Libya sentences innocent people to death. US sentences innocent poeple to death.

Where exactly is the leap?

You want to make a different comparison, by all means, go ahead.

billythrilly7th
12-21-2006, 12:08 AM
I was. I thought I was fairly clear about that with my post that ended:

You want to make a different comparison, by all means, go ahead.

Nah. I think I've said everything I need to say in this thread.

Thank you and Merry Christmas!

greglondon
12-21-2006, 12:11 AM
Nah. I think I've said everything I need to say in this thread.

That would impress me to no end....

robeiae
06-27-2007, 04:28 PM
Update:

Eight years and counting. Still no final decision:

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/06/21/europe/EU-GEN-EU-Bulgaria-Nurses.php

robeiae
08-09-2007, 05:36 PM
Okay, so the nurses and the medic were extradited to Bulgaria, after their sentences were reduced to life. Once in Bulgaria, their sentences were commuted, so now they are free.

http://allafrica.com/stories/200708061276.html

All that ends well, right?

Of course, Muammar Qaddafi's son freely admits (http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=83986) they were tortured.

And some now claim that France brokered the deal (http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2833894.ece) to facilitate an arms deal with Libya.

And soon, Hollywood (http://uk.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUKL0660661620070806) will give us the "real story."

Same old song.

SC Harrison
08-09-2007, 06:27 PM
Of course, Muammar Qaddafi's son freely admits (http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=83986) they were tortured.

And some now claim that France brokered the deal (http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2833894.ece) to facilitate an arms deal with Libya.



I wish they could learn to be like us...oh yeah, I forgot. Nevermind.

robeiae
08-09-2007, 06:31 PM
I wish they could learn to be like us...oh yeah, I forgot. Nevermind.
Oh, I'm not drawing any lines in that regard. Same old song all the way around.