Am I not well read enough and to old to write?

[RumpleTumbler]

I've been wanting to write most of my adult life and have been putting it off for some 20 years. During this period I also put down books for the most part which disqualifies me from being able to write well according to everything I've read. It keeps nagging me and if I'm going to do it I need to get on with it. I'm 45 and that may be to late a start with my lack of experience. I'm unsure of how to proceed. Should I lock myself away and read for a couple of years and then try to start learning? Any advice greatly appreciated!

[Mr. Funktastic]

Just write. You may look back on it in the future and think it's terrible, like I have, but you have to start somewhere. Pick up reading while you're at it, too. Mainly, though, try to write every day. I don't think there's really an age that permits one from writing well, so don't worry about that.

Best of luck to you!

[anodyne]

Read the "Learn Writing With Uncle Jim" thread on this here board. I would suggest the undiluted version, though it gets a tidge confusing at times.

Secondly, putting down books doesn't make you a bad writer. It makes you a typical reader. No one can define your tastes for you. Write what you know. Work on the areas you're lacking, build the skill. Writing is both art and trade, and the more you practice perfectly, the better you'll become.

As my father always said as I screeched half-chewed violin music through the house, perfect practice makes perfect. If you practice something wrong, it will always be wrong. Which is why I still can't make a good embouchure. I'm from the school of thought that says you run with what works. If studying the method of the greats works for you, then go through and look with a critical eye at what they did, and how you can acheive the same effect.

The way I look at it is, you're the only one who knows the story you want to tell. So tell it. Get it out of you. If it's not salable, then you write another one.

[KiwiChick]

I've been wanting to write most of my adult life and have been putting it off for some 20 years. During this period I also put down books for the most part which disqualifies me from being able to write well according to everything I've read. It keeps nagging me and if I'm going to do it I need to get on with it. I'm 45 and that may be to late a start with my lack of experience. I'm unsure of how to proceed. Should I lock myself away and read for a couple of years and then try to start learning? Any advice greatly appreciated!

In my humble opinion, you're never too old to start writing if you're willing to learn. I think a lot of authors with a few more years behind them have more interesting life experience to bring to their work than younger writers anyway. You may not have been writing for the past 20 years, but you have been living. :)

In terms of whether to read first or start writing now, I pretty much agree with Mr. Funktastic. If you know what sort of book (sorry, I assumed oyu wanted to write a novel, though I'm not sure you said that) you'd like to write, start writing, and read everything you can as you go. If you're not yet certain if you're a mystery kind of person or a sci-fi person or a literary person or whatever, you might need to read a bit first to decide, but there's no reason you couldn't start writing something in the meantime, maybe something shorter than a novel.

Browse AW, check out some books on the craft of writing, read Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, and have fun.

Good luck!
KiwiChick

[Birol]

Why do you want to write? Why did you put the books down?

[Kate Thornton]

How could you possibly think that is too old to start?

Start reading. Start writing. Take Uncle Jim's free course right here on AW.

I only *wish* I were 45 again (actually, I wish I could *remember* back that far!) I graduated from college at age 47. My first story was published that same year. Go for it. Use your experience and wisdom and do it!

(PS I was 45 when the pic in my avatar was taken. I look a bit older now. Hell, I *am* a bit older now!)

[RumpleTumbler]

Why do you want to write?

I'm not sure. I think that it's partially because whenever I'm very moved by something written or on film I think I'd love to be able to do that only more so. I enjoy it. I'm plagued by it, it simply keeps coming to mind.

Why did you put the books down?

I don't know for sure. The last book I picked up (can't recall what it was) I was about 100 pages into it and was just in awe of how this person wrote. I thought in a billion years I couldn't even begin to get close to what she was capable of. Haha...greatness discourages me. I never finished the book.

[Birol]

Stop being overawed. Study how they did it. Practice what you study.

[MidnightMuse]

You loved it so much, you hated it?

I agree with Birol - find a book you love, and study it. Get over the awe and use it as inspiration. Then find another one and study IT. Then, when you think you can see your own story unfolding in your mind, sit down and write it.

That's the only way you'll know if you can or can't - just do it. And don't let age stop you from doing anything, be it writing or jumping out of perfectly good airplanes :)

[janetbellinger]

Just do it. The writing police won't come over and get you if you do.

[JeanneTGC]

The reverse questions are -- what books did you finish and why? Did you like them? Why or why not? You can learn as much from what you don't like as what you do.

But, echoing everyone else, if you want to write, write. There are better ways to go about it, but there's probably only one or two right ways for YOU. I didn't write for YEARS because I bought the big lie that you HAD to outline. I don't. Never did, never will. But it works for me. Practice, try things out, and find out what works for you.

As Dear Abby replied to a letter from a reader (oh, decades ago now) when he complained that he wanted to be a doctor but was too old to start because by the time he graduated he would be 10 years older -- you'll be 10 years older ANYWAY, do what you WANT, live your dream. (He did, and wrote back again once he was in school and again when he graduated and had his own practice.) Better to be writing and learning to write and making progress than just thinking about what might have been.

[TrainofThought]

Start writing now. It doesn’t hurt to begin writing down thoughts and ideas. As MM states, use the books as inspiration and remember no one writes the same. Some writers have the talent to create incredible characters while others can describe a scene with such beauty. Writing doesn’t have an age requirement or limitation; the limitation comes from how you treat writing. Go for it and Good Luck.

[Sean D. Schaffer]

I've been wanting to write most of my adult life and have been putting it off for some 20 years. During this period I also put down books for the most part which disqualifies me from being able to write well according to everything I've read. It keeps nagging me and if I'm going to do it I need to get on with it. I'm 45 and that may be to late a start with my lack of experience. I'm unsure of how to proceed. Should I lock myself away and read for a couple of years and then try to start learning? Any advice greatly appreciated!


First, welcome to the Water Cooler, RumpleTumbler. I hope you find the forums to be useful in your writing.

Second, if you want to write, go for it. Like others have said, if you like the way other people write, study their writing. Don't just give up because you feel inadequate. You will never become what you want to be unless you start doing what you want to do.

Like Uncle Jim always says, every published author was unpublished at one time.

Finally, write what you want to write, not just what you know. If you love a certain subject, research it and show yourself that you can write about it.


I wish you the best with your writing endeavors. Good luck to you.
:)

[Amiton]

I don't know for sure. The last book I picked up (can't recall what it was) I was about 100 pages into it and was just in awe of how this person wrote. I thought in a billion years I couldn't even begin to get close to what she was capable of. Haha...greatness discourages me. I never finished the book.

I think that's typical. Most people are intimidated by a goal that seems so far removed from their self-image. There is a japanese parable about a child who saw his family murdered by a blindingly fast swordsman, and spent his life training for revenge, but he could never achieve what he saw that night. Years later he found the swordsman again and that blinding speed wasn't nearly as impressive as it had been when he was a child. I'm paraphrasing, of course.

What I'm getting at, though, is that you should do what you can and continue to do it to the best of your ability. You'll get better. As far as your age, writing is one of those wonderful activites that you don't have to be young and in supreme physical condition to be a participant. As long as you can use your imagination and your word processor, you're good to go.

Follow your dreams and set achievable goals. You'll be amazed at what you can do.

Amiton.

[aghast]

writing and reading are not mutually exclusively - you can do both, reading can teach you a lot about writing but the only way to really learn is by actually putting words down and letting others read it - is never too late, william dielh started writing at age 53 and he never stopped until his death recently at 81

[Haggis]

45? I've got Jockey shorts older than that, Rumple, and I just got my self back into creative writing a little over 4 years ago. Don't let age be a barrier to you. One more thing. I find now that the more I write, the more I want to read. It's all good.

[aghast]

some people get published when theyre 15 and some start when theyre 65 but what only matters is that they do write and get published

[BruceJ]

Go for it, R-T. Although I'm sure I'm not the oldest of the crowd (I hope...), but I didn't start writing until I was 50 (man, am I that old!?).

Birol does have good questions, though. What made you step away in the first place and why are you back? Not being nosy, those are questions for you to answer yourself. If the answers aren't showstoppers in your mind, they sure won't be for anyone else.

[ORION]

I guess I am the devil's advocate here but if you can't finish these books and you haven't actually written anything...how do you know you'd like to write? Is is just that you want to hold a finished book in your hands that you wrote?

[Gillhoughly]

Writing is one profession where age is not an issue. A very fine writer I know began at your age. With some editing and beta-readers to help he's sold three novels, all garnering excellent reviews.

Go to the 808 section of the library. Read it.

Get Strunk & White's Elements of Style. Read it.

Write what you would like most to read.

Good luck.

[anodyne]

<shrugs> Orion, I think you may be on to something.

Writers write. Wanting to write your entire adult life is not writing. Just sit down, plug away at a keyboard and revise.

[RumpleTumbler]

I guess I am the devil's advocate here but if you can't finish these books and you haven't actually written anything...how do you know you'd like to write? Is is just that you want to hold a finished book in your hands that you wrote?

There was only one that I didn't finish. It could have just been my mood at the time and the fact that I was fairly ill with the person who had suggested it. I could analyze it to death but I imagine it was the quality of the writing that dismayed me at the tiime. It's never happened that way before or since. That was just the last and maybe only novel I put down and so I used it as an example. I've toyed with short fiction some and just really enjoyed working through it but I've always wanted to write a book.

I wonder why anyone who hasn't really picked up any fiction in 20 years would think about writing all the time. You would think that if I really was that interested that I would be a ravenous reader. I don't know exactly what happened and I don't know why I'm so compelled to write. I guess to everyone here that's like someone asking my name and I have to look at my drivers license to tell them. Actually in that example I'd have a definitive answer would I? I think the only way to find out is to start and see where it goes.

[Birol]

You guys make me feel oh, so young. :)

[Kate Thornton]

You guys make me feel oh, so young. :) You *are* oh, so young, ya lil whippersnapper! Cute, too!

[arrowqueen]

'Nothing ventured, nothing gained.'

Go for it - and good luck.

[anodyne]

"Thinking about writing isn't writing" -- Absolute Write Sage.

You guys are all old. One foot in the grave, I want tapioca pudding, change my diaper now you young whippersnappers, old.

[Kate Thornton]

"Thinking about writing isn't writing" -- Absolute Write Sage.

You guys are all old. One foot in the grave.

We kick @ss with the other one.

[GPatten]

RumpleTumbler,
I’m 72 years old and all my life I had to tell some story of sorts, whether it was telling it to someone, or writing it down on black and white and making it a story one can read.

I’ve written quite a lot of documents for instructions and that just doesn’t quench my desire to tell a story.

I have dreams I can write about, I can put them in writing and make up any kind of story I want.

However good, or bad my writing is, maters to no one, but me and perhaps, to those who want to read them.

Some people just have to write and that’s just how it is.

[JeanneTGC]

What do you lose by trying?

[UrsusMinor]

Age isn't a limitation. I just read an excellent first novel ("North", by Brian Martin) by a man who is 68.

But not being a reader is a very very very bad sign.

Why on earth do you want to write if you don't like reading? Does the idea of calling yourself a writer just sound cool? Or are you one of those people who is under the mistaken impression that selling a novel is a quick ticket to fame and fortune? If the latter, stop now and save yourself a lot of time and heartache.

I saw a survey a while back. The number of Americans who 'planned to write a book someday' was greater than the number of Americans who 'read a book last year.'

Allow me to quote Stephen King:

"It's hard for me to believe that people who read very little (or not at all in some cases) should presume to write and expect people to like what they have written, but I know it's true...Can I be blunt on this? If you don't have time to read, you don't have the time (or the tools) to write. Simple as that."

[RumpleTumbler]

But not being a reader is a very very very bad sign.

I think so as well, that's why I asked about it.


Why on earth do you want to write if you don't like reading? Does the idea of calling yourself a writer just sound cool? Or are you one of those people who is under the mistaken impression that selling a novel is a quick ticket to fame and fortune? If the latter, stop now and save yourself a lot of time and heartache.

I do like reading, I just haven't done much in a long while.

I can't imagine why it would sound cool.

I'm not intersted in fame and fortune. Not living paycheck to paycheck in any profession would be nice though.

"It's hard for me to believe that people who read very little (or not at all in some cases) should presume to write and expect people to like what they have written, but I know it's true...Can I be blunt on this? If you don't have time to read, you don't have the time (or the tools) to write. Simple as that."

Again, I don't presume to write well without reading a lot. I did want an idea if I was to old to begin the process because of my 20 year hiatus from reading fiction. I'm sorry I've not expressed my thoughts more clearly.

[ORION]

I have been writing my whole life.
>50 years.
It would not occur to me to ask strangers if I should write.
I write because I have to. Because I must.
My novel is being shopped by my agent as we speak.
I did not complete my first novel until I was 50.
I did not ask anyone.
I did not need to.
I just found myself compulsed to write and finally FINISH my book.
And them start another.

If you have to ask me if you are too old to write. I will say yes you are too old.
If you have to ask ME if YOU should write...
Then I say no you shouldn't.
but then...
don't listen to me.
JMHO

[RumpleTumbler]

What do you lose by trying?

Nothing at all, I said in an earlier post that I thought that was the best action to take.

[Haggis]

You guys are all old. One foot in the grave, I want tapioca pudding, change my diaper now you young whippersnappers, old.

Nuh-uh. When you get to be my age, it's the other way around. :D

[RumpleTumbler]

I have my answer. I'm going to write just to spite Orion. j/k however, I'm going to give it a go. Thanks for all your suggestions, ideas, and time.

[TwentyFour]

I began writing at an early age, my first sentence of my novel began as "It was here." It sucked, and I was only 19. I began my novel in 1999 and it was overly romantic, my mc was a bitchy whining perfect person who was just crazy...her romantic interest was stupid and infantile. I was young, inexperienced, and my writing lacked substance and voice. Now, after nearly 7 years of working on my novel, I found my voice. I have been through the ringers with an emotionally abusive man, a cheating boyfriend, and badmouthing friends...I found my experience to write this book about these friends and lovers. You should have plenty of experience and emotions to draw upon. Good luck with the novel, find a voice and a your story and just write. You can always go back to edit it later or draw on that experience to write a new novel.

[Carrie in PA]

The last book I picked up (can't recall what it was) I was about 100 pages into it and was just in awe of how this person wrote. I thought in a billion years I couldn't even begin to get close to what she was capable of. Haha...greatness discourages me. I never finished the book.

I keep coming back to this. How great could the writing have been if you noticed the writing and couldn't even finish the book? *shrug* For me, when the writing's great, I don't even notice it until after the fact because I'm in the story.

You're never too old to start. Pick up a pen. And pick up some books.

And welcome to AW!

[JeanneTGC]

I have my answer. I'm going to write just to spite Orion. j/k however, I'm going to give it a go. Thanks for all your suggestions, ideas, and time.

GOOD! Keep us posted on how you're doing.

[badducky]

I for one think we're all too old, and not a single one of us has read enough.

[Little Red Barn]

45! you are still a babe...people have been known to start medical school beyond this age...now get going kiddo!:whip: kimmi

[J. Weiland]

The title of this thread implies that you haven't read enough, so do that also, together with the writing.

[Scarlett_156]

Am I not well read enough and to old to write?

"No" to both questions. However, it's "too old" not "to old". I just thought I would be a first-class jerk and point that out.

By the way, I'm older than you. People have been struggling to get me to STOP writing since I was a tad, but I keep doin it anyway.

Good luck!

[Birol]

You *are* oh, so young, ya lil whippersnapper! Cute, too!

This statement has been perplexing me all day. Have Mac or Liam been posting pictures of me again?

[JanDarby]

Age isn't a problem.

Not being obsessed with storytelling in some form (written or oral) may be a problem.

Writing is such a difficult career, with copious rejection and little positive reinforcement, as well as the insanity-inducing lack of clear-cut rules about something as seemingly simple as "what qualifies a person to tell a story?" It's not something that anyone should pursue unless he's got no other choice. For most writers, not writing (and not reading, even if we threw most of the books at the wall after the first paragraph) would be tantamount to not breathing. We don't really have a choice. We try to quit, and the creative equivalent of lungs will start to gasp, and the next thing we know, we're surreptitiously booting up the computer's wordprocessing program, or scribbling on a legal pad illuminated by a flashlight.

A writer's life is full of pain and suffering. Really. If you don't need to write, then don't.

Okay, on the other hand, if you really need to write, then it's also an ineffably fulfilling experience, at least for the thirty seconds or so each month when the words and ideas and storyline come together, until you find the flaw in them.

JD

[UrsusMinor]

45! you are still a babe...people have been known to start medical school beyond this age...now get going kiddo!:whip: kimmi

Really? I know any number of people under the age of 30 who were turned down by medical schools on the grounds that they were too old--not too old to learn, but too old for the medical schools to allocate their scarce resources to. I have one friend who was accepted at the age of 29--but it took a special meeting of the admissions board to make an exception in his case. Spaces in med school are scarce and are generally reserved for those who will be practicing for many years.

As to writing, Miss Snark, in her post entitled "Geezer Lit," says "One of the things I look for is whether a novelist will be a good investment ie will s/he be earning for a number of years to come..."

http://misssnark.blogspot.com/2006/08/geezer-lit.html

I'm all in favor of people writing at any age. But this business is far from welcoming in the first place, and is even more hostile toward anyone over the age of 35. If you're older than that, keep it to yourself until your fish has taken the hook.

[UrsusMinor]

In one of his essays, Lawrence Block cites this old story that I think goes to the heart of the matter:

------------
A young violinist has the opportunity to play for a master of the instrument. He plays for the maestro, and then asks, “Well? Do I have the talent to be a great violinist?”

The master shakes his head. “No. You lack the fire.”

The young man is disappointed, but turns his hand to other callings, and in time becomes a successful businessman.

Many years later, he meets the master, and they have a drink together. “It was so amazing,” the former violinist says, “that you could tell so much from listening to me play for only a few minutes—that I ‘lacked the fire’.”

“Oh,” says the master, “I hardly listened. I say that to everyone who plays for me.”

“What?” the former violinist says. “But, but, how could you? I might have been great!”

The master shakes his head. “You don’t understand. If you really had the fire, nothing I said would have made any difference.”

---------------

[Ol' Fashioned Girl]

Rumple: Just Do It. It doesn't have to be for publication. It doesn't even have to be for sharing. All it has to be is for you.

The world is full of all kinds of writers. Some are pros and some are not. Some do it for money and some do it as a hobby. One is not better than the other.

Just do it.

[Gary]

Only 45?...I have aches and pains older than that!

I didn't begin writing until I was 64 and that was last year. I'll never have anything published, but at least I can say I wrote a novel.

I've had an itch to write since I was half your age and at last I scratched it.

[Kate Thornton]

As to writing, Miss Snark, in her post entitled "Geezer Lit," says "One of the things I look for is whether a novelist will be a good investment ie will s/he be earning for a number of years to come..."

http://misssnark.blogspot.com/2006/08/geezer-lit.html

I'm all in favor of people writing at any age. But this business is far from welcoming in the first place, and is even more hostile toward anyone over the age of 35. If you're older than that, keep it to yourself until your fish has taken the hook.

Yeah, I read that too - I follow Miss Snark, but only as entertainment. Most of the pro mystery novelists I know personally are women over 40. Okay, a few (Dale Furutani, Tom Griffiths, Darrell James) are *guys* over 40. I only know a couple of younger mystery novelists or people who started writing before 40 or so. I'm a short story writer, so age isn't a factor at all when I place stories.

But as most agent-fishing is not done in person, there's no need to reveal either your dotage or your callow youth until after the deal is done. Even Miss Snark agrees that "good writing trumps all."

Besides, for anyone just starting out, there's a lot of writing ahead befor publication, and maybe publication isn't every writer's goal.

I think a newbie ought to be encouraged as much as possible so that any innate talent can be nurtured through instruction. If there's no talent, or no desire after all, well, so be it. Anything is worth a try if you want to try it. Success is measured differently for different people.

[aghast]

they just say 60 is the new middle age and 40 is the new 'life starts now' - welcome to a new era... you are now at the right age to 'start' living

[Little Red Barn]

[Really? I know any number of people under the age of 30 who were turned down by medical schools on the grounds that they were too old--not too old to learn, but too old for the medical schools to allocate their scarce resources to. I have one friend who was accepted at the age of 29--but it took a special meeting of the admissions board to make an exception in his case. Spaces in med school are scarce and are generally reserved for those who will be practicing for many years.]

As to writing, Miss Snark, in her post entitled "Geezer Lit," says "One of the things I look for is whether a novelist will be a good investment ie will s/he be earning for a number of years to come..."

http://misssnark.blogspot.com/2006/08/geezer-lit.html

I'm all in favor of people writing at any age. But this business is far from welcoming in the first place, and is even more hostile toward anyone over the age of 35. If you're older than that, keep it to yourself until your fish has taken the hook.


Beg your pardon...Thats called a lawsuit in my neck of the woods...discrimination too, and yes several years ago we had a lady graduate college from med school at age 54.

Rumple people set many goals at different ages...marathons, learning to cook, even bicycling...if it's in your heart...write
Heck last I heard 35 was the new age for 45!;)

[JeanneTGC]

It took Tolkien 20 years to write the Lord of the Rings trilogy. He wasn't exactly a spring chicken when that finally got published.

Writing is one of the few things where age and experience are considered benefits. I've heard sages say you shouldn't even consider writing until you hit 40 and have lived life.

But I don't care if you're 12 or 120. If you want to write, by all means, do it. I'd guess that the majority of us didn't start out writing with the goal of being published -- I'm sure a LOT did, but I'm also as sure that a lot did NOT. Once you write long enough and become happy with your result, then you might want to try for publication. Or not. It doesn't matter. It only matters that you strive for your goal, whatever it is. When we stop dreaming, we die.

So, don't let anyone steal your dream...including you, yourself.

[Carmy]

Go for it. If the need to write has nagged at you for years, maybe it's time to listen. The muse isn't going to go away.

Don't be awed by other writers. Writing well usually comes with practice. I'm sure most of us have what we call apprenticeship novels. You learn with everything you write, so start writing.

[NeuroFizz]

Really? I know any number of people under the age of 30 who were turned down by medical schools on the grounds that they were too old--not too old to learn, but too old for the medical schools to allocate their scarce resources to.

Do you have documentation to back this up? I now of several people who have been admitted to medical schools who were over 30. I wrote letters of recommendation for some of them. Did the rejection letters actually list this as a reason? People who are rejected from medical school are some of the best rationalizers I've known. I'd like to see even a single letter that lists this age thing as a reason for rejection.

As to writing, Miss Snark, in her post entitled "Geezer Lit," says "One of the things I look for is whether a novelist will be a good investment ie will s/he be earning for a number of years to come..."

http://misssnark.blogspot.com/2006/08/geezer-lit.html

I'm all in favor of people writing at any age. But this business is far from welcoming in the first place, and is even more hostile toward anyone over the age of 35. If you're older than that, keep it to yourself until your fish has taken the hook.
A 45 year old man will have more than 30 years of writing time ahead of him (rounding off life expectancy). This is enough time to earn a full retirement pension in most professions. This isn't enough time to establish a productive writing career? It's almost as long as a 35 year old has been on this globe. Sorry, but I find the highlighted part of your post to be pure crap.

Edited to note that Miss Snark was referring to people in their 70's when she mentioned Geezer fiction. If you (UrsusMinor) think anyone in their 40's, or even their 50's is a geezer, you have a perception problem--one that could even impact your writing.

[UrsusMinor]

A 45 year old man will have more than 30 years of writing time ahead of him (rounding off life expectancy). This is enough time to earn a full retirement pension in most professions. This isn't enough time to establish a productive writing career? It's almost as long as a 35 year old has been on this globe. Sorry, but I find the highlighted part of your post to be pure crap.

Edited to note that Miss Snark was referring to people in their 70's when she mentioned Geezer fiction. If you (UrsusMinor) think anyone in their 40's, or even their 50's is a geezer, you have a perception problem--one that could even impact your writing.

The med school thing is neither here nor there, and legislation has improved the situation in recent years, but being a geezer myself I can remember a time when the age factor in med schools was explicit, and the cases I cite were were based on things candidates were told during their admissions interviews.

Actually, Miss Snark was using "70" as an example, rather than the definition of a "geezer," but the post and the responses to it were about age in general.

I'm only 52, but I have personally experienced the hostility of the industry to age--and "old age" starts early in this business. Fact: I have had agents tell me that they are only interested in finding 'hot young writers.' Fact: I have had an agent tell me to my face that she really wasn't interested in working with unpublished writers who were over 35, period.

I have attended lectures by publicists where they talk about the difficulty of 'marketing the image' of the 'older writer'--"older" meaning in their 40s.

Apparently I don't write like a geezer, because I have had agents blanch when they finally met me in the flesh, and say, Umm, well, gee, I thought you were a lot younger from your writing.

When someone like Frank McCourt scores a big first hit after the age of fifty, every magazine article stresses how remarkable it is.

Things are not nearly so bad in Europe, but in the US, publishing people are far happier if you are young, even remarkably young, and take a gorgeous jacket photo. And this isn't just my narrow perception of the situation: Dennis Palumbo's book "Writing From the Inside Out" devotes a chapter to the problem of ageism in screenwriting and publishing.

My first novel is being published next year by a good house. Do I believe that I would have gotten to publication faster if I were younger? Yes, based on interactions with a number of agents, I do--but that's just how things are set up in this society.

So, when someone who doesn't read and hasn't written asks the question whether his lack of reading and writing experience and his age will work against him in the American book industry, the answer is certainly "Yes."

That doesn't mean the challenge is insurmountable. Dedication, desire, and talent are powerful allies. But success at writing, however defined, is an uphill battle under the best of circumstances.

Is 45 too late to start writing if you haven't read anything in a couple of decades? (Is 50? Is 60? 80?) No, but it certainly doesn't work in your favor, and I think it is disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

[Ol' Fashioned Girl]

So, when someone who doesn't read and hasn't written asks the question whether his lack of reading and writing experience and his age will work against him in the American book industry, the answer is certainly "Yes."

RumpleTumbler didn't ask if his perceived shortcomings would work against him 'in the American book industry'. He asked:


Am I not well read enough and to old to write?
I've been wanting to write most of my adult life and have been putting it off for some 20 years. During this period I also put down books for the most part which disqualifies me from being able to write well according to everything I've read. It keeps nagging me and if I'm going to do it I need to get on with it. I'm 45 and that may be to late a start with my lack of experience. I'm unsure of how to proceed. Should I lock myself away and read for a couple of years and then try to start learning? Any advice greatly appreciated!

He may have meant to add the 'in the American book industry', but didn't. So, based on what he asked, I still say, "Go for it."

And as an old Affirmative Action fart, I'd LOVE for someone to put into writing that I'm 'too old' to be a successful writer. I could make a book out of the lawsuit.

[mooncars]

Whoa, Nelly! I can't imagine there were all that many books around when Moses set out to write the Pentateuch. And look how well it's sold over the millenia. And we know Peter was just a fisherman. Need I say more? ;)

[Sassenach]

Janet Evanovich published her first book over 40, and is doing quite well.

I remain convinced that if an agent reads a ms that he's sure is salable, he'll be interested, no matter the age of the writer.

[LloydBrown]

Haha...greatness discourages me. I never finished the book.

I have to admit that I feel the same way sometimes.

Then I read something else that got published, and I realize "I can write better than this."

[Elodie-Caroline]

Hi,
I had been wanting to write since the age of 12 years old, but life got in the way. I never started writing until I was 44, nearly two years ago. What I write now is totally different to what I would have done years ago too; at least at our age we have experience to look back on and can use in our writings.
I don't think that you should let it bother you that you haven't read too much, at least you know you won't have been influenced by other writers and their kind of writings that way :)

Ellie

I'm 45 and that may be to late a start with my lack of experience. I'm unsure of how to proceed. Should I lock myself away and read for a couple of years and then try to start learning? Any advice greatly appreciated!

[anodyne]

My suggestion? Read the greats. Not the great wordsmiths, or great fiction writers. The great stories. The "metathemes" in our society (assuming you come from a western one.) Greco-Roman mythology, the Odyssey, the Illiad. Be familiar with the stories that people know, understand how those stories work.

The sad and sorry fact of life is that every book is in conversation with every other book in the head of our readers. This conversation is called inter-textuality.

Write the story you want to write, do it to the best of your ability. Unless you haven't wanted to "write" for most of your adult life, you've wanted to be an author. In which case, might I stress the suggestion to read the "Learn Writing with Uncle Jim" thread.

[Atlantis]

I've been wanting to write most of my adult life and have been putting it off for some 20 years. During this period I also put down books for the most part which disqualifies me from being able to write well according to everything I've read. It keeps nagging me and if I'm going to do it I need to get on with it. I'm 45 and that may be to late a start with my lack of experience. I'm unsure of how to proceed. Should I lock myself away and read for a couple of years and then try to start learning? Any advice greatly appreciated!

You can start writing at any age. You don't need any skills or qualifications just the ability to type or hold a pen. Plotting and character building can be learnt. Janet Evanovich, author of the Stephanie Plum series, started writing in her 40's while raising her small children. Nora Roberts was a housewife before she started writing. She started writing books during a snow storm because there was nothing else to do...if I remember correctly...I interviewed her for a web site along time ago and she said something along those lines. Instead of studying books to figure out how to write, just pick up a pen and start. Its the only real way you will learn. My first novel, The Secret World, took me seven drafts before I shelved it. It was my first real novel and with each draft I learnt something new about writing and characters. My advice? Instead of reading how-to books, read fiction in the genre you would like to enter. It is the best way to improve your writing. You are never to old to write. Brice Courtney, an Australian writer, started in his late 40's and is still going strong in his 70's and he's a best selling writer. Writing is tough but it is also very rewarding. If your heart is telling you to write then do it.

[RumpleTumbler]

My advice? Instead of reading how-to books, read fiction in the genre you would like to enter.

I read a good many of those many years ago and doing so was part of the reason I didn't write, I think. I checked "On Writing" out of the library a year or so ago and the remark Mr. King made about all books about writing being bullshit was very liberating for me. I had suspected this all along but many of the "have to's" in many of the books I read I knew wouldn't work for me. That isn't to say there isn't a lot of good information in a lot of books, I just really identified with that remark. Having said that, in reality I don't know for sure what works for me and what doesn't at this point. I'm pretty sure having to do an outline would just destroy it for me, I'm that repulsed by it. Now that I've said that I imagine I've cursed myself and will probably wind up using them.

[Ken Schneider]

Keep in mind a few things.

The average time it takes for a beginner to go from first word ever written to publishing is 10 years.

The more complete MS you write, 80,000 to 100,000 words, the better you'll get at the craft as you go.

You may find after you've written a million words that you are publishable.

Don't be fooloed by that guy that had his first ever novel published. He's either been trying for a long time, or he's an English lit major who's a lifetime reader.

To start, write for fun, for yourself.

You will unlikely be able to make a living from writing.

Don't consider PublishAmerica as a publisher. They publish anything that is sent to them.

Good luck

[Sassenach]

Having said that, in reality I don't know for sure what works for me and what doesn't at this point. I'm pretty sure having to do an outline would just destroy it for me, I'm that repulsed by it. Now that I've said that I imagine I've cursed myself and will probably wind up using them.

Shut up and write.

[Bufty]

I second that, Sassenach.

It's just a pity, RT, you found this addictive site before you started to write.

Suggestion - Ask to be banned for 3 months, then when the story is finished come back and pop your first chapter in the Share-Your-Work Forum. :D

[Kentuk]

"Once a man's thirty, he's already old,
He is indeed as good as dead.
It's best to kill him right away."
Goethe

[Prawn]

I am 40, and I felt like you did in June, and since then I have written a novel. How did I do it? Butt in chair. An hour a day. I gave up lunch hours, I got up yesterday at 4 am and today at 5 am to write before the wife and kids got up. That's what it takes.

Now is my novel any good? I think so, but it may not sell. Maybe my seventh or eighth novel will sell. But even if I give up writing, I can still fell a sense of accomplishment that I finished one.

Give it a shot, give it some time. You'll get out of it what you put into it.
P

[JeanneTGC]

I'm pretty sure having to do an outline would just destroy it for me, I'm that repulsed by it. Now that I've said that I imagine I've cursed myself and will probably wind up using them.

Killed my writing for 20 years. SO, let me liberate you again. Read this next sentence slowly.

If you don't like to outline, then don't outline, just write.

That's what I did. That's what a LOT of others on the AW forums did. We are all around, many are published or on the verge of it, and what we've all learned is that what works for each individual is going to be different.

Stop asking for other people's permission to write. We give you permission to have "the audacity" to join our ranks. We give you permission for your first drafts to just stink up the continent. We give you permission to write something that ONLY you could have written. We give you permission to struggle along in the journey with us, whether you only want to write for yourself or hope that one day you will write for millions. We give you permission to follow your dream.

Now, get started.

[Ol' Fashioned Girl]

:Lecture: What she said.

Have you started yet?

[K1P1]

Yeah - get to work. We don't know the answer to your questions and you won't know the answer either until you try. Your own voice as an author is determined by your history, your knowledge, your personal style. Your ability to complete what you set out to do depends entirely on you, not on the opinions of any of us. But we'll do what we can to help.

Do you have a story in your head that's pounding to be let out? Do you have a character or a scene that won't let you alone? Then stop reading this right now and go write it down. Doesn't matter if it's good. Doesn't matter if it's polished. Just get it down on paper or on your computer as fast as you can. When you've done that, come back and tell us you did.

We'll throw you a party. :D

:partyguy:

[steveg144]

I've been wanting to write most of my adult life and have been putting it off for some 20 years. During this period I also put down books for the most part which disqualifies me from being able to write well according to everything I've read. It keeps nagging me and if I'm going to do it I need to get on with it. I'm 45 and that may be to late a start with my lack of experience. I'm unsure of how to proceed. Should I lock myself away and read for a couple of years and then try to start learning? Any advice greatly appreciated!

45? Harrumph, a mere whippersnapper. I came back to it at age 50 (after a 30 year hiatus, the reasons for which I may find the guts to turn into a novel some day :-). I have pushed hard to read and write something every single day. I've done non-fiction pieces, short stories, a play .... heck, I even did a novel via NaNoWriMo. While doing this, I haunted the forums (like here at AW) to figure out which books were the must-read guides for learning the "craft" part of writing. Now mind you, I'm not setting the world on fire, but I've had 5 pieces picked up; not bad, considering I started this project less than two years ago and hadn't read anything except computer-programming manuals for decades.

So no, you're not too old. No excuses!

[steveg144]

I am 40, and I felt like you did in June, and since then I have written a novel. How did I do it? Butt in chair. An hour a day. I gave up lunch hours, I got up yesterday at 4 am and today at 5 am to write before the wife and kids got up. That's what it takes.
P

Ditto to what Prawn said. There's always the discipline factor to consider. The BIC Principle (BIC=Butt In Chair) is all-important. I drag my laptop to work with me and plop in the cafeteria every day at lunch. Typical conversation with a passserby:
"Wow, they even make you work on your lunch hour???"
"Nah. I'm writing a (novel/play/essay/short story)."
"Wow, you a writer?"
(Blushing humbly) "Yes. Yes, I am."
"Wow." Pause. "Are you famous?"
"No." Pause. "At least, not yet." ;-)

Add to that the 30 mins in the evening when my wife's in the shower, I pound the keyboard then. That's 90 minutes a day of WRITING. OK, it's not like the 8 hours a day that the big-name famous writers put in, but that's their JOB, whereas poor schlubs like me have this thing called a "day job." :-D

[BardSkye]

When it's time to meet your Maker, which would you rather regret? Not publishing those however-many books, or not starting them?

Start now. Butt in chair. It might get numb for a while, but it'll be fun.

[UrsusMinor]

Keep in mind a few things.

The points you make are about as good a summary as I've ever seen, Ken.

And, yes, Hemingway's dictum of "write a million words" was pretty much on target.

[BiggerBoat]

My wife and I are 40. We were married young (just had our 20th anniversary), and the dreams we had in youth sort of fell by the wayside of the day-to-day of raising a family. We were watching TV last year (Gray's Anatomy), and she commented how she still thought about being a nurse. I turned to her and said "what's stopping you?"

Long story short, she's been in school for a few months now getting her pre-reqs out of the way and she's doing great. Straight A-s so far. She's the most compassionate and empathetic person I've ever met, and she'll make an awesome nurse. It's going to be hard work and even getting a spot in school is a roll of the dice, but I know she'll do it.

Anyway, I tell this story for a couple of reasons. One is simply that statement: "What's stopping you?" Just know that it's hard work and you have to embrace it totally. There are tons of people who feel that they have a novel in them, and they'll get around to it someday, and never do. Writers write, plain and simple. Every day (with some time off for good behavior).

That said, I wish I could sit on my high horse and say I'm one of those devoted few ... one of those real writers. Unfortunately, my writing life is filled with false starts and not enough motivation. I know I'll never accomplish my goals unless I make it my passion. Butt in chair. Every day. Perhaps I should look to my wife for inspiration.

Best of luck to you. Just don't agonize over it. Give it a try. If you really want to do it, then work hard, learn, challenge yourself. You aren't any less of a person if it doesn't work out (whatever that means to you), and the reward is in the journey....

[JumpingJack]

If you don't do it now, you probably never will.

It's a simple as that.

There is no use in putting barriers in front of just getting on and doing it, which is what your doubts are. I did exactly that for 15 years, which is how long it took me to start writing again, and now I'm gutted about the time I wasted NOT writing.

Ask yourself if never writing anything is something you would be happy with. If it isn't, then you need to make sure you do it.

[Mike Coombes]

Age is never a barrier - a friend of mine, Bonnie Shimko http://www.bonnieshimko.com had her first novel published when she was 60, and her second has just hit the bookstores.

[zenofeller]

You're never too anything to write. Old, young, stupid, deaf, whatever. You may be too something to publish. There's only one way to find that out however.

[JerseyGirl1962]

Having said that, in reality I don't know for sure what works for me and what doesn't at this point. I'm pretty sure having to do an outline would just destroy it for me, I'm that repulsed by it. Now that I've said that I imagine I've cursed myself and will probably wind up using them.

Rumple,

Heh heh, yeah, you probably just cursed yourself. ;)

I have a how-to book that helped me see that (at least so far) that using an outline (an index card system, actually) works - for me. In a WIP I shelved earlier this year, I used a slimmed down, kind of gimmicky outline; around about Chapter 8, I had no clue where to go with the story. That particular outline didn't work for me.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you may be a seat-of-your pants writer or you may be an outliner (which doesn't necessarily mean the outline is etched in stone; that certainly hasn't been the case for me). Without writing and seeing how it goes, there's just no way to really know (the how-to book had an unscientific checklist as to whether a person was the type to outline or not - guess which side I came down on :D).

As others have said, just write, and see what you come up with. And, I think it's also a good idea to pick up a novel every once in a while. What might help you is what you like to look at movie-wise: Are there movies or TV shows that you gravitate towards? Then maybe those are the kinds of books you should buy or take out of the library.

Good luck to you!

~Nancy

[JerseyGirl1962]

There is no use in putting barriers in front of just getting on and doing it, which is what your doubts are. I did exactly that for 15 years, which is how long it took me to start writing again, and now I'm gutted about the time I wasted NOT writing.

That's me. I wasted all of my 20s and 30s thinking about writing and taking writing correspondence courses. I think this year, at 44, I'm finally getting serious about my writing (I did get a short story pubbed 3 years ago, but I think I did it more as a lark than anything else).

~Nancy

[Misty_Blue]

This has to be one of the most inspiring threads for new writers that I've ever come across. RT you are not alone in your fears, I think that most new writers are plagued with all sorts of doubts. I am terrible at thinking that I am:

a) not good enough to produce something anyone would wanna bother reading...,'

b) 'too old at 36!!!!'

c) 'not worthy of such success'......

The rotten list of thoughts are endless, but I'm sure others have had similar doubts here, and even you may come back to me and say 'thats all nonsense'.

Nevertheless, I joined this site about a month back with the greatest hopes of writing a novel. I read, listened, learned more than my brain could process at the time actually... headaches ensued and then I spoke recently to a woman whose published three books (face to face, and never had that pleasure before).. And boy did that set me off. She had eyes, nose, ears and (and a bit overly strong perfume) but she was HUMAN like ME, only published.

So I stopped posting here for the last couple of weeks (no offense guys) and have almost 25,000 words down. Now I'm not sure about all of these words, (or even any of them in fact), and when I get those 'moments' I visualise this woman standing before me and I'm straight back in the chair! Who knows what our fate is RT, do it if you love it and enjoy it and remember its always easier to give up than it is to fight.

[JeanneTGC]

Way to go, Misty! Keep up the great work!

[IrishScribbler]

Jasper Fforde, my favorite contemporary author, was in his early thirties when he decided to become a writer.

I took a creative writing class with a man in his fifties who had just decided he wanted to be a historical novelist.

[C.bronco]

Man, write your book. My Dad is convinced that everyone has at least 1 good book in them. I wish he'd get back to his. He got side-tracked after chapter 3, but it's a great premise and a great start. I'd better give him a talking to.

[farfromfearless]

There is only one way to become a writer. Just write. Be prepared to be bad, terrible in fact, but keep writing. You can only get better.