Activists urge boycott of the 'N-word'

[JoeEkaitis]

Uh, yeah, right. (http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-me-richards28nov28,1,614331.story?coll=la-headlines-entnews)

Of course, the moment a comic is actually fired or otherwise penalized for using the word, the same bunch will rush to the defense of his freedom to practice his art.

'S only a matter of time.

[robeiae]

If the activists hold a rally, I wonder what they would chant.

"No more n____!" wouldn't go over too well...

Actually, I suspect ulterior motives on the part of some of these "activists," cynic that I am. The word has become far too common and everytime someone gets hammered for using it, the whole rap culture thing and the use of the word within some elements of the black community comes up. It's sapping the power garnered from accusations of it's use.

[Celia Cyanide]

I attended the National Hip Hop Political Convention in '04, and there were activists there with flyers urging people so stop using it. It was interesting, but I couldn't take it that far.

[Celia Cyanide]

Actually, I suspect ulterior motives on the part of some of these "activists," cynic that I am. The word has become far too common and everytime someone gets hammered for using it, the whole rap culture thing and the use of the word within some elements of the black community comes up. It's sapping the power garnered from accusations of it's use.

Not sure what you mean by this. Could you explain? Are you saying that reclaiming the word has made using the word in a racist way seem less racist?

[billythrilly7th]

We need to merge Current Events and TIO back I think.

Maybe it's me. I just don't get the difference.

:Shrug:

[robeiae]

Not sure what you mean by this. Could you explain? Are you saying that reclaiming the word has made using the word in a racist way seem less racist?I'm saying people like Jesse Jackson (who I think very little of) get less use from the word as a tool to criticize others as being racist. Richards is small bananas. I'm not surprised at all to see Jackson saddle up with him. Look at the Va Senate race. I'm certain there are many who supposed George Allen should have been sunk overnight by the allegations that he used the n-word. Yet, it didn't happen.

[eldragon]

Yesterday, my 9 year old daughter and I were sitting in a pharmacy, waiting for prescriptions to be filled. (She has bronchitis.)

A man and his wife came in and he left her sitting on one side of the room, and came over to sit by me and my daughter. He started a conversation, and began telling me where his grown daughters worked. One of the places was Pizza Inn. He told me that they didn't sell beer at Pizza Inn, because the "niXXers," get drunk and mess up the salad bar.

I told him that that label was disgusting, and he should stop using it immediately, and that I doubted all black people get drunk and mess up salad bars.

He went on to explain to that he had friends who were "nixxers," and they all respected each other. I told him that there is no respect as long as he uses that name. He said he has white trash friends, too. I told him that white trash is not offensive, the use of the word ****** is.

He told me he understands that he shouldn't use the word around my daughter. I told him he shouldn't use the word, period. We had quite a lengthy conversation, during which he used the word 6 or 7 times, each time he said it I cringed and told him not to use the word.

He is retired law enforcement. His first name is "Billy Ray." He has a pot gut and his eyes were only slits - he looked and acted like he was drunk, but he wasn't. It is clear to me that people who use these terrible words are completely lacking in self esteem, and are looking for someone to look down on.

Why any black person wants to live in Mississippi is beyond me.

I have made sure that my daughters understand what happens when REAL people use that word - by telling them about the Kramer thing. Under no circumstances would my kids ever utter such filth.

[eldragon]

I would also like that add that the n word has never left my lips ........and I didn't think it would type on this forum - but it did.

I would never ever say it.

[Shadow_Ferret]

I sure am glad I have a dvd copy of "Blazing Saddles" before they start expunging the word from the language.

[Celia Cyanide]

We need to merge Current Events and TIO back I think.

Maybe it's me. I just don't get the difference.

:Shrug:

Mac, Rob, can we get a sticky--"PLEASE READ: The difference between TIO and CE"

Thank you.

[Jcomp]

man I don't believe for a second that Mooney's going to stop using it. Mooney took using it to an entirely different level.

As for George Allen vs. Michael Richards A) George Allen is, alas, less well known than Kramer and B) he was only accused of saying it, he wasn't actually filmed in the process of shouting it 894 times in a row.

I think the whole thing's been blown out of proportion. Mike's a d*ck for what he said, yeah, but it's hardly worth all this coverage. Granted, it's the action of a celebrity, which by default is going to get exorbitant coverage in our press. Nonetheless, I think that if you subbed out Mike for the guy who played Mr. Kotter, or didn't have the incident on video, or he said "porch monkey" or "coon" instead of "******," we wouldn't have all this hype surrounding it.

And not using the word "******" isn't going to make anyboy less racist. They'll just find a new word, or just talk about hanging black people upside down with forks up their a$$es. Attacking the word is superficial...

[PattiTheWicked]

The thing about this whole Michael Richards/Kramer thing that's got me rolling my eyes is this: He's asked the black community to "help him with healing" and his handlers have called in a psychologist to "help figure out why he used such an ugly word."

Dude, you don't need "healing", whatever the hell that's about. You don't need a shrink. You need to accept the fact that your bigotry has probably just tanked what's left of your career.

That'll be $80, please.

[billythrilly7th]

Mac, Rob, can we get a sticky--"PLEASE READ: The difference between TIO and CE"

Thank you.

Yes, thank you.

We have Lindsay Lohan things in CE & Politics, we got Israel truce and other current events in TIO. Different Kramer threads in both places.

It's too much clicking for me!!

I have bronchitis!!(like Eldragon's daughter)

And all this clicking back and forth is taking away from my limited posting time.

Thank you,
Near Death Thrilly

[billythrilly7th]

I told him that white trash is not offensive

It isn't?

:Shrug:

[aghast]

and why stop at the n-word? why not other derogatory terms such as the k word, the c word, the f word, the q word - jesse jackson et el are all self-serving pc police overreacting to one mans mistake and if they really are about civic right than go and boycott every racial homophobic sexist slur will ya, i mean we will have to dig out everything richard pryor did and burn the tapes

[oswann]

You can physically force people to do anything including changing what they say however you won't stop them thinking it.


Os.

[Mom'sWrite]

How does one go about boycotting a word? It's not a product or service, it's a word. Someone clue me in because I can't figure how a word that's already on the "never say in front of your mother" list can be realistically boycotted.

[blacbird]

Point: It wasn't just the word that got Michael Richards in trouble. It was the way he used it. Context always matters.

caw

[Jcomp]

How does one go about boycotting a word? It's not a product or service, it's a word. Someone clue me in because I can't figure how a word that's already on the "never say in front of your mother" list can be realistically boycotted.

I think they'd boycott movies, comedians and musicians that use it. Which seems silly as all hell to me. But there've been groups talking about this for years, MR just gave it a little more steam and publicity.

[Mom'sWrite]

I think they'd boycott movies, comedians and musicians that use it. Which seems silly as all hell to me. But there've been groups talking about this for years, MR just gave it a little more steam and publicity.

Thanks for the explanation. I gotta agree with the silliness angle. Make way for the thought police. I'll be interested to see how they (who would boycott a word) will make this one play.

[TheGaffer]

Makes no sense to boycott a word. Words are inanimate objects.

Context indeed is key in the first place. Nobody's gonna wanna take your Richard Pryor videos away for this reason.

[dclary]

The freedom of speech comes hand in hand with the freedom to ignore speech, and the freedom to speak against the free speech you've heard.

As long as I'm allowed to use the word n*gger, spic, kike, cracker, donkeyfonker, nazi, gazelle-raping-zulu-ungulo-thkthkthz, and believe me, I am both allowed to and will, and others are allowed to either completely ignore me, or speak out against me (including boycotting), then everything's working as it should in a free society.

The minute I can't say something, or someone else can't ignore or have the freedom to disapprove of it, we have a problem.

[eldragon]

It isn't?

:Shrug:

No, not compared to the n word.

Not even close.

[billythrilly7th]

No, not compared to the n word.

Not even close.

I didn't say it compared.

YOU said "it wasn't offensive" and that's flat out wrong.

[eldragon]

Ok, Billy, then let's boycott the term "white trash," shall we?


White trash refers to the color of someone's skin, and their behavior.

The n word only refers to the color of their skin.

[TheGaffer]

The minute I can't say something, or someone else can't ignore or have the freedom to disapprove of it, we have a problem.

No talking. Be quiet.

[blacbird]

White trash refers to the color of someone's skin, and their behavior.

The n word only refers to the color of their skin.

Actually, one of the major implications of Richards's meltdown was that his use of the word referred as much to his heckler's behavior as it did the color of his skin. That linkage, as much as anything else, was what was so offensive.

caw

[blacbird]

Jesse Jackson (who I think very little of)

No! Really?

caw

[billythrilly7th]

Ok, Billy, then let's boycott the term "white trash," shall we?


White trash refers to the color of someone's skin, and their behavior.

The n word only refers to the color of their skin.

Wrong. What blacbird said.

And please just admit that "white trash" is offensive and that you made a mistake in saying it wasn't so we can all move on.

[Tiger]

White trash refers to the color of someone's skin, and their behavior.

The n word only refers to the color of their skin.

I think this is why he didn't say that the two words are comparable.

[eldragon]

Wrong. What blacbird said.

And please just admit that "white trash" is offensive and that you made a mistake in saying it wasn't so we can all move on.


You can move on, Billy, but I still believe the words are different.

For instance, if I am sitting in The Laugh Factory, and a black comedian starts talking about white trash, or calls me white trash when I heckle him, I'm going to laugh.

Nobody will get up and walk out of the club in my honor or defense, either.

Nope - it's not the same.

[billythrilly7th]

You can move on, Billy, but I still believe the words are different.

For instance, if I am sitting in The Laugh Factory, and a black comedian starts talking about white trash, or calls me white trash when I heckle him, I'm going to laugh.

Nobody will get up and walk out of the club in my honor or defense, either.

Nope - it's not the same.

It's an amazing thing to me when you've already said "I didn't say it compared" and then someone else says "I still believe the words are different."

Let's start again.

You said "white trash isn't offensive."

I essentially said "yes it is." And of course it is. I DIDN'T SAY it was AS OFFENSIVE as calling someone the N word. That doesn't mean it's not offensive. Duh.

[blacbird]

It's an amazing thing to me when you've already said "I didn't say it compared" and then someone else says "I still believe the words are different."

Let's start again.

You said "white trash isn't offensive."

I essentially said "yes it is." And of course it is. I DIDN'T SAY it was AS OFFENSIVE as calling someone the N word. That doesn't mean it's not offensive. Duh.

Thrillsy! You're dealing correctly with a nuance! I'm impressed!

caw

[billythrilly7th]

Thrillsy! You're dealing correctly with a nuance! I'm impressed!

caw

Alright!!

:e2woo:

[Tiger]

He didn't say they were the same, just that "white trash" wasn't a term that gave NO offence at all.

Would you want your daughter using the term?

[billythrilly7th]

He didn't say they were the same, just that "white trash" wasn't a term that gave NO offence at all.

Would you want your daughter using the term?

Exactly.

Try walking through a poor white neighborhood somewhere yelling "You're all White trash!" and see how well that goes over.

[dclary]

No talking. Be quiet.

shut up, you!

[dclary]

Exactly.

Try walking through a poor white neighborhood somewhere yelling "You're all White trash!" and see how well that goes over.

I did that, and George (my neighbor across the street) yelled "Shut up, put your pants back on and stop letting your dog crap in my garden!"

[eldragon]

Yesterday, my 9 year old daughter and I were sitting in a pharmacy, waiting for prescriptions to be filled. (She has bronchitis.)

A man and his wife came in and he left her sitting on one side of the room, and came over to sit by me and my daughter. He started a conversation, and began telling me where his grown daughters worked. One of the places was Pizza Inn. He told me that they didn't sell beer at Pizza Inn, because the "niXXers," get drunk and mess up the salad bar.

I told him that that label was disgusting, and he should stop using it immediately, and that I doubted all black people get drunk and mess up salad bars.

He went on to explain to that he had friends who were "nixxers," and they all respected each other. I told him that there is no respect as long as he uses that name. He said he has white trash friends, too. I told him that white trash is not offensive, the use of the word ****** is.

He told me he understands that he shouldn't use the word around my daughter. I told him he shouldn't use the word, period. We had quite a lengthy conversation, during which he used the word 6 or 7 times, each time he said it I cringed and told him not to use the word.

He is retired law enforcement. His first name is "Billy Ray." He has a pot gut and his eyes were only slits - he looked and acted like he was drunk, but he wasn't. It is clear to me that people who use these terrible words are completely lacking in self esteem, and are looking for someone to look down on.

Why any black person wants to live in Mississippi is beyond me.

I have made sure that my daughters understand what happens when REAL people use that word - by telling them about the Kramer thing. Under no circumstances would my kids ever utter such filth.

I spent five minutes typing this story, and all you can say is that I said white trash isn't offensive?

Actually, I think my exact words were "it's not the same."

Happy now?

I didn't think so.

[dclary]

El, as a writer, I cringe whenever I hear someone (especially another writer) tell someone that they can't use a particular word (any word) for any reason other than "that's the wrong word in that context."

What I mean by that, is that if I said "Those damn educations always f*ck up the salad bar when they get drunk," -- Then clearly I can't use that word in that context because it's simply wrong.

But the last time I checked, it's not a crime to be offensive. And it never should be, because everyone offends someone eventually. I have the right to use any word I want, but I also have the responsibility to use those words accurately, and with consideration of my audience's needs and desires.

N*gger's an offensive word to some. Why? I don't know. I was raised believing that sticks and stones could break my bones but words could never hurt me, and so far that's turned out true, so I can't really sympathize with victim-mentality activists who believe there's harm in pejoratives.


Our heritage is richer when we appreciate the full range and color of our language and how our words add or subtract emotional weight when they're used well in context. Subtracting the number of words at our disposal makes us a sorrier, poorer people.

[billythrilly7th]

I spent five minutes typing this story, and all you can say is that I said white trash isn't offensive?

Actually, I think my exact words were "it's not the same."


He said he has white trash friends, too. I told him that white trash is not offensive, the use of the word ****** is.


Those are your exact words.

I apologize for calling you out on that.

THAT was the only part of your story that I felt the need to comment on.

You're talking about how bad what Michael Richards said is and the pharmacy man said is and then make a ridiculous statement that "white trash isn't offensive."

If I were you what I'd do is say "Okay, maybe I made a mistake. What I meant to say was 'white trash' isn't as offensive as the n-word."

And then I'd go....

Cool. 'Nuff said.

[poetinahat]

And it implies that, even though the person's skin is white, they're not as good as other white people. Which implies that white people are better.

Maybe it's not the same, but I don't see where it's less offensive. It brings with it all the baggage that ****** does.

[TheGaffer]

N*gger's an offensive word to some. Why? I don't know. I was raised believing that sticks and stones could break my bones but words could never hurt me, and so far that's turned out true, so I can't really sympathize with victim-mentality activists who believe there's harm in pejoratives.
Wow, way to belittle the situation a bit. When a word's been used in the context that such a word has -- when blacks had far, far less standing and power in society -- well, that's a damned obnoxious, hurtful and demeaning word to use. It means you don't even think enough of the other person to consider them a human being on the level that you are, simply by the color of your skin, religion, gender, et al. That's really the point. It's why this carries more weight than simply calling someone an a**hole.


Our heritage is richer when we appreciate the full range and color of our language and how our words add or subtract emotional weight when they're used well in context. Subtracting the number of words at our disposal makes us a sorrier, poorer people.

But this part I agree with. People went after Quentin Tarantino for using the n-word in his movies, which I never agreed with. I believe you're right about this.

[Jcomp]

But this part I agree with. People went after Quentin Tarantino for using the n-word in his movies, which I never agreed with. I believe you're right about this.

I think cracker & peckerwood aren't used enough in movies though. Even flix like Menace II Society don't balance it out....

[Sheryl Nantus]

what would Mark Twain say?

oh, wait... aren't they pulling his books off the shelves already?

[blacbird]

N*gger's an offensive word to some. Why? I don't know. I was raised believing that sticks and stones could break my bones but words could never hurt me, and so far that's turned out true, so I can't really sympathize with victim-mentality activists who believe there's harm in pejoratives.

Oh, come on, now, declarey, let's get real. That "sticks and stones" line might just be the stupidest old adage ever produced in our language. When they are intended for the specific purpose of hurting, words hurt. Ask any teenager who's been ridiculed for being too fat, or too skinny, or for having zits, or whatever. Like I said elsewhere in this thread, context is important. Obviously you've not been on the receiving end of much of this stuff in your life. Must be nice.

caw

[eldragon]

I'm not for banning any word, for any reason.

I posted the story about the redneck in the pharmacy, (and I mean that in a derogatory way,) to show that there are people using the word - to this day.

Anyway - using the n word is just one thing racists do to show how threatened they are.

It's a vulgar word, and anyone who is politically correct would not use it. However, they might still be racist.

[Rolling Thunder]

what would Mark Twain say?

oh, wait... aren't they pulling his books off the shelves already?

I like to think he'd say; "Those who demand mouths be closed so their ears won’t bleed are those of very small mind, indeed."

[dclary]

Oh, come on, now, declarey, let's get real. That "sticks and stones" line might just be the stupidest old adage ever produced in our language. When they are intended for the specific purpose of hurting, words hurt. Ask any teenager who's been ridiculed for being too fat, or too skinny, or for having zits, or whatever. Like I said elsewhere in this thread, context is important. Obviously you've not been on the receiving end of much of this stuff in your life. Must be nice.

caw

Come on blaccy. It may be stupid, but it's true. I've been ridiculed for being stupid, fat, crazy, and a bajillion variations and combinations of the same. But I was taught that I define myself. I don't let others define me. This is true rugged individualism at work. A name only has power over me if I let it.

[billythrilly7th]

Oh, come on, now, declarey, let's get real. That "sticks and stones" line might just be the stupidest old adage ever produced in our language. When they are intended for the specific purpose of hurting, words hurt. Ask any teenager who's been ridiculed for being too fat, or too skinny, or for having zits, or whatever. Like I said elsewhere in this thread, context is important. Obviously you've not been on the receiving end of much of this stuff in your life. Must be nice.

I've been on the recieving end of bigoted slurs a handful of times in my life.

They never really bother me. I always chalk it up to them being idiots.

:Shrug:

[Tiger]

I've been on the recieving end of bigoted slurs a handful of times in my life.

They never really bother me. I always chalk it up to them being idiots.

:Shrug:

I've noted that the tolerance for it only came with age.

I've been on the receiving end from everyone--including other Asians at one time or another. All racists are not white. Idiocy is an equal opportunity condition.

[Sheryl Nantus]

I'm not for banning any word, for any reason.

I posted the story about the redneck in the pharmacy, (and I mean that in a derogatory way,) to show that there are people using the word - to this day.

Anyway - using the n word is just one thing racists do to show how threatened they are.

It's a vulgar word, and anyone who is politically correct would not use it. However, they might still be racist.

isn't "redneck" offensive to some?

[eldragon]

isn't "redneck" offensive to some?

I'm not sure. I have had several men introduce themselves to me and say "I'm a redneck." We have had alot of work done on our house, and the attire of many of them has been "redneck," and "countryboy," shirts and caps. They have redneck bumperstickers, too. I think they are proud of the label.

If someone called me a redneck I wouldn't be offended, because I'm the opposite of one, and anyone who talks to me for five minutes will know that right away.

[dclary]

As any self-respecting person of darker pigment would do if called a n*gger.

[oswann]

I think the word lollygagger should be used more. Is there a way to have words used more in a language?


Os.

[blacbird]

I've been on the recieving end of bigoted slurs a handful of times in my life.

They never really bother me. I always chalk it up to them being idiots.

Maybe so, but being idiots can still hurt, even when you try to ignore them. Think about our adventure in Iraq, and who is in charge of it.

caw

[billythrilly7th]

Maybe so, but being idiots can still hurt, even when you try to ignore them. Think about our adventure in Iraq, and who is in charge of it.

:rolleyes:

[dclary]

That's another problem I have with banning words.

What if I know a person of darker pigment who honestly IS a n*gger? Shouldn't I be able to call him that? Most of the men and women I know who associate themselves as "african americans" are wonderful people, but some of them are dirty scumf*ckers who deserve jail, death or worse. I would never categorize ALL dark-pigmented people by the actions of these few, but these few have earned my contempt legitimately, not just through blind prejudice.

[BottomlessCup]

I'm not a fan of the "black people v. ni**ers" argument, even if Chris Rock says it.

The implication, to me at least, is that, while dumb/a$$holey/whatever white people are just dumb/a$$holey/whatever on their own, when a black person demonstrates similar negative qualities, they're demonstrating the negative qualities of their race. (Or pigment for dc.)

It brings race into criticism of a person, which is never necessary, IMO. As [somebody famous] said, there are plenty of good reasons to hate people on an individual level. Don't debase yourself by throwing "the N-word" around.

[dclary]

I'm not a fan of the "black people v. ni**ers" argument, even if Chris Rock says it.

The implication, to me at least, is that, while dumb/a$$holey/whatever white people are just dumb/a$$holey/whatever on their own, when a black person demonstrates similar negative qualities, they're demonstrating the negative qualities of their race. (Or pigment for dc.)

It brings race into criticism of a person, which is never necessary, IMO. As [somebody famous] said, there are plenty of good reasons to hate people on an individual level. Don't debase yourself by throwing "the N-word" around.

I think I was trying to say in my own inefficient way what you paraphrased so succinctly in the second paragraph Bcup.

[blacbird]

What if I know a person of darker pigment who honestly IS a n*gger? Shouldn't I be able to call him that?

So you need to use an epithet related to a racial group rather than an individual insult unrelated to race, like a$$hole? Why? What's your point? That's precisely what Michael Richards did, and why he's in such disrepute right now.

But, if you must, fine with me, go right ahead. Just be willing to accept the consequences. That's a big part of "freedom of speech" that most of the people I know who complain about "censorship" don't seem to get.

caw

[robeiae]

Lollygaggers.

Nah...too Bull Durham-ish.

[oswann]

I also like monkey wrench but that's two words.


Os.

[robeiae]

monkey wrench
http://www.worth1000.com/entries/197000/197474WCFb_w.jpg

[SC Harrison]

That's another problem I have with banning words.



Most words are basically communication tools, with little or no meaning/power until they join with others. But there are some words which, through usage, have attained a power of their own. They defy contextual restraints and make a fool of intent, and throw up walls between people wherever they can.

This is one of those words, and no amount of reasoning and intellectual debate can limit its painful effects. Its etymology may have been innocent enough, but it has become something evil over the years, and can never be rehabilitated.

[eldragon]

Excellent post, SC Harrison!

I completely agree. It's a word much uglier than just a word.

[dclary]

So you need to use an epithet related to a racial group rather than an individual insult unrelated to race, like a$$hole? Why? What's your point? That's precisely what Michael Richards did, and why he's in such disrepute right now.

But, if you must, fine with me, go right ahead. Just be willing to accept the consequences. That's a big part of "freedom of speech" that most of the people I know who complain about "censorship" don't seem to get.

caw

I think I've stated quite clearly that I understand the ramifications of selecting inappropriate words. To the best of my knowledge the last person I called n*gger was my cousin Patrick (who is, to the best of my knowledge) as lily-white as I, in or about 1980. All of my cousins called each other this. To us it had no racial overtones, it just meant a variation of "dumba$$."

Regardless... I know better than to use words that will incite a crowd if I'm looking to target an individual. My point is that word selection is my right, my decision. I get to choose what words I can use. No one else does.

[dclary]

Excellent post, SC Harrison!

I completely agree. It's a word much uglier than just a word.

And yet, it's still just a word.

[SC Harrison]

And yet, it's still just a word.

To you, it is just a word. To others, it carries with it the weight of decades of exclusion and being considered "less than human".

As far as your use of it amongst your white relatives? Your choice of using that term as an insult, even a playful one, is dripping with racism, whether you care to admit it or not.

And yes, you should be free to use whatever words you want to, as long as society is free to label you a racist. It's just a word, right?

[dclary]

To you, it is just a word. To others, it carries with it the weight of decades of exclusion and being considered "less than human".

As far as your use of it amongst your white relatives? Your choice of using that term as an insult, even a playful one, is dripping with racism, whether you care to admit it or not.

And yes, you should be free to use whatever words you want to, as long as society is free to label you a racist. It's just a word, right?

All words have meaning, Harrison. I thought the liberal crowd was all about redefining words with decades of weight and meaning to match their own beliefs?

If you guys on the left want marriage to be "man + man" instead of "man + woman" why can't we have n*gger apply to anyone, instead of just one subset of the population?


I like how you pin racism on an ignorant 11-year-old, though. Nice job there, Judge. Know why I stopped using it then? I learned what it meant. Am I still a racist?

Damn straight I am. And proud of it. I firmly believe the human race is the best race ever, and no one will convince me otherwise.

[SC Harrison]

All words have meaning, Harrison. I thought the liberal crowd was all about redefining words with decades of weight and meaning to match their own beliefs?

If you guys on the left want marriage to be "man + man" instead of "man + woman" why can't we have n*gger apply to anyone, instead of just one subset of the population?



Deek, WTF, man?

How can you go from your...theory of liberal word redefinition practices to same-sex marriage?

That's like going from point "A" to point "H", and skipping those pesky letters in between.

I tell you what—let's pick a third word to redefine. How about "Racist"? We can start by bumping that pesky word "Species" out of the way, and using Race in its place. That way, Racism becomes a positive thing, and something to be proud of!

Oh, wait. You already changed that word. I'll think of something else later.

[dclary]

Deek, WTF, man?

How can you go from your...theory of liberal word redefinition practices to same-sex marriage?

That's like going from point "A" to point "H", and skipping those pesky letters in between.

I tell you what—let's pick a third word to redefine. How about "Racist"? We can start by bumping that pesky word "Species" out of the way, and using Race in its place. That way, Racism becomes a positive thing, and something to be proud of!

Oh, wait. You already changed that word. I'll think of something else later.

I didn't change it. Let's go for it, definition-dude.

race1 (rās) http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/pron.gif
n.

A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.
A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.
A genealogical line; a lineage.
Humans considered as a group.
Biology.
An interbreeding, usually geographically isolated population of organisms differing from other populations of the same species in the frequency of hereditary traits. A race that has been given formal taxonomic recognition is known as a subspecies.
A breed or strain, as of domestic animals.
A distinguishing or characteristic quality, such as the flavor of a wine.
Ok.
If we're using definition 1, I choose 'global human population.'
If we're using definition 2, I choose 'geographic distribution' and the geographic distribution I'm using is 'born on earth.'
If we're using definition 3, I choose 'descended from adam' (or 'lucy' or 'piltdown man' if you're non-religious)
If we're using definition 4, well, we're using definition 4.
If we're using definition 5, I choose 'homo sapiens.'
If we're using definiton 6, then I can't help you, because I don't know anything about wine.

So yep. I'm still a racist. I still think mankind rocks.

[nicegrrl]

Banning words? Um. No.

[SC Harrison]

I didn't change it. Let's go for it, definition-dude.



I prefer to be called Mister Definition (or Wordman). Try these on for size:

Disingenuous

Veiled

Myopic

Depending on your response, there may be others...

[dclary]

You are free to search every post I've made here, or on any other message board, or any of my scripts. Show me where I've been -- as you define it -- racist. There's thousands to choose from, surely you'll find several.

Or, perhaps you can find somewhere where I have NOT been color-blind? Surely, with all the nationalist jabs I make at the French and others, with the genderist jokes I make at snarky women, with the culturist slams I make on urban americana and militant jihadism, with all these other examples of my character flaws (briefly, I've also insulted homosexuals, handicapped people, vegans, and liberals), you can find a jab, snide comment or other slur I've made against people more or less pigmented than I am?


This is the point I'm making, and I thank you for helping me make it. While I care, at some level, about being called a racist, it doesn't matter. I can brush it off and move on, because I know that even by the definition of racism you want to use, I'm not one. In the same manner, I believe everyone is capable of this, and the way we destroy all that emotional power n*gger has is for people of darker pigmentation to brush it off them, say "Maybe this was a word that defined people who looked like me 100 years ago, or even 50. But that is not today, and that is not me. This word is meaningless, because it does not describe me."



Call me what you want, I know who I am. As does any rugged individualist, armed with the knowledge that a word is merely a word. Even when it's much more than that.

[dclary]

And I don't know what any of those other words mean, because I'm fat and lazy, so if you look them up for me, that would be swell.

Thanks.

[robeiae]

fat and lazy
No dad, what about you?

[dclary]

Is that for real?

[robeiae]

Is that for real?
*sigh*

It's getting so random and pointless quotes from The Breakfast Club have lost their impact...

I'm blaming it on the words.

[SC Harrison]

"Maybe this was a word that defined people who looked like me 100 years ago, or even 50. But that is not today, and that is not me. This word is meaningless, because it does not describe me."



You know, I'd like to believe if I was a black person, I could make this statement from the heart and really believe in it; but I can't really know how it (the word) would effect me, because I'm not black.

I am, however, a person who has traveled quite a bit, and has witnessed the use of this word on countless occasions. I've seen it used by white adults directed towards black children (even very small ones), I've seen it used by white children directed towards black adults (even elderly ones), I've seen it used by white adults in earshot of black adults, just to keep them in their place, and I've heard it used in white-only conversations so many times I could not give a ballpark estimate.

And yes, I've heard it used (more and more frequently) in black-on-black conversations, but I think this is some kind of collective effort to take the sting out of the word, so it won't have the same heartbreaking effect of old when whites use it. That's just a theory, and it may be way off-base.

Deek, I know you're not a raving White Supremacist "hater of peoples", and I'm sorry if I've painted you as such. The thing is, we still have a huge problem with racism in this country, because some of us can't forget the past while others worry too much about the future.

And yes, banning a word is idiotic, but the desire to do so is grounded in harsh reality.

[dclary]

*sigh*

It's getting so random and pointless quotes from The Breakfast Club have lost their impact...

I'm blaming it on the words.

Damn you! I GAVE you next line! You were SUPPOSED to say "You wanna come over sometime?"



Andrew: All right, what about your family?
Bender: Oh mine? Its real easy. Stupid worthless no good goddamn free loadin' son of a ***** retarded big mouth know it all ******* jerk! You forgot ugly lazy and disrespectful- shut up *****! Go fix me a turkey pot pie! What about you dad? **** you. No, dad, what about you? **** you. No dad what about you?! **** you!
Brian: Is that for real?
Bender: Want to come over sometime?

[dclary]

You know, I'd like to believe if I was a black person, I could make this statement from the heart and really believe in it; but I can't really know how it (the word) would effect me, because I'm not black.

I'd like to believe that people have the same capacity for strength and growth regardless of pigmentation. In fact, I do believe that. Why don't you?

[robeiae]

:e2smack:
I thought you were pissed for some reason...

But the real next line was "F*** you!"

[dclary]

I thought you were pissed for some reason...

But the real next line was "F*** you!"

I know, but if I'd done that one, then you'd be the only one who knew that I knew what you knew and they'd all be like "wtf?!" and then those mercilous smashed gophers would call "She who wears the stone coyote who looks like a smashed gopher" and the post would get all deleted and then where would we be?

[robeiae]

Well, duh. That was the point.

Mac gives me bonus points when I help people get themselves banned.

[dclary]

You are no Bourne. My old man network saved me again!

[Celia Cyanide]

I'd like to believe that people have the same capacity for strength and growth regardless of pigmentation. In fact, I do believe that. Why don't you?

Who said he didn't?

Strength and growth has nothing to do with knowing what it feels like to be someone you're not.

He said this:

I can't really know how it (the word) would effect me, because I'm not black.

Admitting he can't speak for a black person, and that he doesn't know how the word would effect him if he were black does not mean he thinks black people don't have the same capacity for strength and growth as he does. You have capacity for strength and growth, but you will never know what it's like to live your entire life as anyone other than yourself.

[robeiae]

I know what it's like to be a 7th level half-elven neutral-evil mage/assassin. Kind of.

[dclary]

Who said he didn't?

Strength and growth has nothing to do with knowing what it feels like to be someone you're not.

He said this:



Admitting he can't speak for a black person, and that he doesn't know how the word would effect him if he were black does not mean he thinks black people don't have the same capacity for strength and growth as he does. You have capacity for strength and growth, but you will never know what it's like to live your entire life as anyone other than yourself.

Please don't jump into waters too deep for you, dear.

[dclary]

I know what it's like to be a 7th level half-elven neutral-evil mage/assassin. Kind of.

Man, you're as wishy-washy as they get!

I'm a chaotic good dwarvish cleric/thief!

[Celia Cyanide]

Please don't jump into waters too deep for you, dear.

I expect more than this from people here. All I did was point out that you were twisting someone's words to mean something that they did not.

[SC Harrison]

Admitting he can't speak for a black person, and that he doesn't know how the word would effect him if he were black does not mean he thinks black people don't have the same capacity for strength and growth as he does. You have capacity for strength and growth, but you will never know what it's like to live your entire life as anyone other than yourself.

What she said. :)

In fact, I have witnessed an unbelievable amount of strength and growth exhibited by black people, even while enduring treatment that would bring me to the brink of violence. When they do excel, they are often labeled "one of the good ones" grudgingly, as if there's an understood percentage of "good ones" that have what it takes to earn their way into the real society.

What a f**ked up deal, to have to rise above someone else's prejudice. :(

[dclary]

I expect more than this from people here. All I did was point out that you were twisting someone's words to mean something that they did not.

If you'd like to get into the conversation, fine. I was hoping to spare you some embarassment. My apologies.

[Celia Cyanide]

If you'd like to get into the conversation, fine. I was hoping to spare you some embarassment. My apologies.

dclary, I gather from the things you've said to me in the past few days that you assume, from what very little you know about me, that I'm ugly and stupid. I really don't care, because I know it isn't true. I just ask that you keep your assumptions about what I am out of discussions like this, as I have done for you. If there is something wrong with my post, feel free to point it out. Don't insult my intelligence. And thank you for the consideration, but I would never be embarassed by a message board discussion. Sheesh!

[blacbird]

Please don't jump into waters too deep for you, dear.

The depth is less of a problem than the turbidity.

caw

[dclary]

When they do excel, they are often labeled "one of the good ones" grudgingly, as if there's an understood percentage of "good ones" that have what it takes to earn their way into the real society.

I agree 100% with you here, Harrison. And even worse -- those who do excel get slammed by members of the urban americana culture, who've convinced themselves that integrating with and succeeding in a world without color is "selling out" or becoming "uncle tom."

I understand that not everyone is as enlightened as you or I, but that's sadly because 90% of the world's population are morons (regardless of pigmentation).

In a perfect world, though, the pejoratives don't go away. The pain they cause does. This leads to a stronger, better, richer species, and a more diverse, culturally tolerant civilization. So in this way, yes, I do expect people to have to rise about the prejudices of others. I expect ALL of us to. The only way you defeat prejudice is to not allow it to defeat you.

Like someone earlier here pointed out, you might be able to coerce someone's speech patterns, but you'll never coerce someone's thought patterns. If you watch every movie ever made about how a bigot became a non-bigot, it's because he witnessed someone he feared or didn't understand be a bigger man than he was. If we rise above the hate, we defeat it. If we complain and kvetch about the hate, we justify it.

[dclary]

dclary, I gather from the things you've said to me in the past few days that you assume, from what very little you know about me, that I'm ugly and stupid. I really don't care, because I know it isn't true. I just ask that you keep your assumptions about what I am out of discussions like this, as I have done for you. If there is something wrong with my post, feel free to point it out. Don't insult my intelligence. And thank you for the consideration, but I would never be embarassed by a message board discussion. Sheesh!

Again, my apologies. Are these not enough?

[robeiae]

If you'd like to get into the conversation, fine. I was hoping to spare you some embarassment. My apologies.You're gonna get hurt...:popcorn:

[dclary]

The depth is less of a problem than the turbidity.

caw

Excellent point.

[dclary]

You're gonna get hurt...:popcorn:

I've gathered as much. Can I get a protection from women +2 spell over here, mr. mage/assassin?

[SpookyWriter]

If we rise above the hate, we defeat it. If we complain and kvetch about the hate, we justify it.How thought provoking. You've found a voice I'm sure was lost years ago and since then the clarity of distain for bigotry remains under the surface of American culture. The ability to speak out loudly takes a lot of guts.

[MacAllister]

I can't really speak to what it's like to be called a nigger.

I can, however, speak to what it's like to be called a dyke. That's usually, btw, a word accompanied by expletives, as in f***ing dyke. Goddamned dyke. And so on.

I also don't believe the language is done any favors by things like boycotts--but I also don't believe for a moment that a boycott on a word is ever going to work. If you're polite enough not to use a word like nigger or dyke as an epithet, then the boycott doesn't make any difference to you, anyway. If you're not, then again, the boycott doesn't make any damned difference, anyway.

Dave, you're on thin ice. Take a deep breath and try to behave a bit more courteously toward your fellow members, eh?

[SpookyWriter]

I can't really speak to what it's like to be called a nigger.

I can, however, speak to what it's like to be called a dyke. That's usually, btw, a word accompanied by expletives, as in f***ing dyke. Goddamned dyke. And so on.Both are quite offense in any situation. I remember years ago being called a cracker by black guys while I was in the Marines. My first reaction was to kick some azz. So for me any derogatory term brings back memories of extreme prejudice and grounds for a good whoooping.

[robeiae]

I think that's what passes for flirting in Claryworld. I could be wrong, though. :)

[MacAllister]

If Clary is flirting with Celia, we gotta get a translator in here--I missed it, completely. :)

[dclary]

I can't really speak to what it's like to be called a nigger.

I can, however, speak to what it's like to be called a dyke. That's usually, btw, a word accompanied by expletives, as in f***ing dyke. Goddamned dyke. And so on.

I also don't believe the language is done any favors by things like boycotts--but I also don't believe for a moment that a boycott on a word is ever going to work. If you're polite enough not to use a word like nigger or dyke as an epithet, then the boycott doesn't make any difference to you, anyway. If you're not, then again, the boycott doesn't make any damned difference, anyway.

Dave, you're on thin ice. Take a deep breath and try to behave a bit more courteously toward your fellow members, eh?

Yes'm! I'm trying. I spoke to Celia sharply and snarkily, and have since been apologizing. It's been a good discussion thus far. Except for that robeiae guy. He's trouble, I tell ya!

[SpookyWriter]

Yes'm! I'm trying. I spoke to Celia sharply and snarkily, and have since been apologizing. It's been a good discussion thus far. Except for that robeiae guy. He's trouble, I tell ya!I've read the whole thread (eyes are bulging now) and got to say Dave has done worse...he attacks logically without thinking about hurting peoples feelings. Now go back to work Dave and have a Clarke bar...(trouble maker).

ETA: Oh and don't forget to make a healthy donation to AW on the way home tonight.

[dclary]

Both are quite offense in any situation. I remember years ago being called a cracker by black guys while I was in the Marines. My first reaction was to kick some azz. So for me any derogatory term brings back memories of extreme prejudice and grounds for a good whoooping.

I am fairly sure that marine corps justice and the courtroom in the head would NOT go over well in the general population.

(for those unfamiliar: if you have a beef with someone, you and he "work out" your differences in the bathroom. The guy who comes out looking the worst was wrong, and has hopefully apologized. He's also said to have "fallen on a bar of soap" to explain his injuries.)

[robeiae]

If Clary is flirting with Celia, we gotta get a translator in here--I missed it, completely. :)
Just go to your John Bender manual, page 4:

"Sweets? You couldn't ignore me if you tried."



See?

[dclary]

See? I do have a social life. It's pathetic and sad, but social!

[billythrilly7th]

Everything settled down in here? Good..'Cause..

http://www.moviesoundscentral.com/sounds/breakfast_club/skulls.wav
(I've told ya, Mac. Feel free to use this)

[Celia Cyanide]

I also don't believe the language is done any favors by things like boycotts--but I also don't believe for a moment that a boycott on a word is ever going to work. If you're polite enough not to use a word like nigger or dyke as an epithet, then the boycott doesn't make any difference to you, anyway. If you're not, then again, the boycott doesn't make any damned difference, anyway.

I can speak to that. I mentioned the activists at the National Hip Hop Political Convention earlier in the thread. The flyer they gave me had a list of movies that were out lately, and how many times they used the word. The boycott was put on the films. The idea was that films that used it would lose money and they studios would stop using it in movies. Of course, as writers, we see problems with this. If you are writing a character who WOULD use a word, why fudge it? Unless you are writing a script that is clearly made for children, perhaps. I see why someone would object to the word, but there are people who use it, even in an offensive way. Should those people never be portrayed in films?

[Celia Cyanide]

See? I do have a social life. It's pathetic and sad, but social!

That should be "demented and sad."

[dclary]

That should be "demented and sad."
Is it? Dang. My internal quotebox is broken. I'll have to watch it again tonight.

:(

[dclary]

Yup, Google agrees with ya. 333 hits for demented and sad. 18 hits for pathetic and sad.

Nice catch!

[Rolling Thunder]

I'm going to post this here. It falls within the context of debate and I think it has enough value to show both the word as discussed and how it pertains to some of those who use it. Depending on your view it is either offensive or humor.

I found it to be interesting.....and somewhat ironic as well as humorous at times. That being said if you don't approve of the N word don't follow the link.

Any group seeking to ban the word is facing an uphill battle from within their own ranks. As first amendment rights go I still see this as art and an expression of the musicians.

http://www.killfrog.com/emi/gottahustle.html

(Oh, no offense DC...but the strip joint hold up is sooooooo you.):poke:

[dclary]

I'm going to post this here. It falls within the context of debate and I think it has enough value to show both the word as discussed and how it pertains to some of those who use it. Depending on your view it is either offensive or humor.

I found it to be interesting.....and somewhat ironic as well as humorous at times. That being said if you don't approve of the N word don't follow the link.

Any group seeking to ban the word is facing an uphill battle from within their own ranks. As first amendment rights go I still see this as art and an expression of the musicians.

http://www.killfrog.com/emi/gottahustle.html

(Oh, no offense DC...but the strip joint hold up is sooooooo you.):poke:

LOL none taken. That ho was smokin'!

[mooncars]

Much ado about nothing. The whole world misuses the Good Lord's name, and no one's complaining. Something's wrong here.

As for making words illegal? Just a matter of time till we burn books.

Freedom is lost by degrees.

Rick