Publishing Question

[amyfushigiyugi]

Hi,


I was wondering about something. If I publish a book through Author House then I get to keep all my rights. 100%. Now the question I have is … is this worth doing?

Publish a book through author house.
Buy a lot of my books.
Send the books out to real publishing companies to see if I can get a real contract on them.

Reason I ask is because the cost of ink is high when printing out the whole book and sending it to pubs. It would cost less and look a whole lot neater if I just sent out the books. Right?

Plus my closest fans would not have to wait for a real publisher to take over the books.

If anyone has done this please let me know. If someone knows this is a ‘No No’ then also please let me know.

Thank you,
Amy

[CrankItTo11]

Agents and publishers like loose pages in a standard format - I don't think they'd want to recieve a bound book. Plus, what if they request (as they often do) a partial?

Just my 2 cents... :)

[JennaGlatzer]

Crank is right. And you're also using up your first publication rights. Even though it's *possible* for a publisher to pick up the rights to a self-published book, it's not what they prefer. And they'll want to see your sales numbers-- so if you publish through a vanity press and sell 100 copies, it'll be a strike against you, because it'll look like there's not much of an audience for your book.

Definitely stick to sending out the manuscript in manuscript format to real publishers.

[PeeDee]

Please don't do this thing. Please oh please. I realize how expensive ink can be (boy oh boy do I realize....) but going with AuthorHouse means you'll be running the rest of this marathon with a bear trap on your leg.

Plus, they'll send you some damn annoying letters every three days. Urk.

[veinglory]

Rather than run every copy of your book off a laser printer making one copy and photocopy it. That should be a lot cheaper than a perfect bound copy (and shipping to you).

[PeeDee]

Rather than run every copy of your book off a laser printer making one copy and photocopy it. That should be a lot cheaper than a perfect bound copy (and shipping to you).


.....what a good idea. Why didn't that occur to me? It is a lot cheaper.

Crap, now I've learned something.

[jchines]

If you do this, your book will be published. Even if a publisher is willing to pick up a previously published book, there's a good chance you'll get a smaller advance.

Honestly, I can't imagine this would help your chances, and I think there's a very good possibility it would hurt you.

[veinglory]

Just send them what they ask for. Anything else suggests you are not paying attention and respecting their wishes.

[NeuroFizz]

If the submission instructions say to submit 2 chapters, or if an agent requests 2 chapters following submission of a query, sending the entire manuscript is a huge mistake on your part. Follow submission instructions to the letter, whether or not it drives you crazy. Doing otherwise may be a quick trip to the rejection pile.

[veinglory]

But if I am printing it from home then even if its a copy... wouldnt it take the same amount of ink? You lost me somewhere and I am new at this so I know it is easy to lose me. ^_^
Hugs
Amy

Photocopying uses a photocopy machine not a laser printer. At any good copy shop this will cost less than using your inkjet. Most people, in my experience, just sneak in and do it at work (or someone elses work). Otherwise, invest in a decent printer that uses cheap toner not an inkjet cartridge. It will pay for itself within about 2 copies of a full manuscript.

[PeeDee]

But if I am printing it from home then even if its a copy... wouldnt it take the same amount of ink? You lost me somewhere and I am new at this so I know it is easy to lose me. ^_^
Hugs
Amy

Don't copy them at home. Go to Kinko's, or OfficeDepot, or something. There's always somewhere with a copier.

Honestly, anything is better than going with AuthorHouse or a similar publisher. You're giving away waaaaay too much just to get your pages stuck together with some glue. Promise.

[Toothpaste]

self-published books, whether they deserve the stigma or not, are looked down on by agents and editors. They are seen as vanity projects by people who think they are too good for editors. Now before people start showing me examples of the opposite, I do know that this isn't always the case, and that there are some perfectly good reasons to self-publish, especially in the poetry world. I am just generalising here. However I would still highly recommend that you don't go this route. Just follow the directions of the agent/publisher you are sending stuff to. Trust us, they wouldn't ask for things a certain way if they didn't want them that way. Being professional is the best trick in the book.

[Gillhoughly]

Is this worth doing? Publish a book through author house.
Absolutely NOT.

This is from http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors/peba.htm

AuthorHouse (formerly 1st Books): Not recommended. A vanity publisher.
5/17/06 - If you don't know by now, AuthorHouse lost a libel suit in court. It seems that the courts and jury decided that a publisher couldn't disavow itself of what it published. In other words, AuthorHouse should have vetted what it accepted before publishing. Now they owe several hundred thousand dollars and may have to pay even more in punitive damages.

Brace for incoming, darlin' -- NO ONE here is going to recommend AuthorHouse.

Just yesterday I was on the phone with a bookstore owner who delcared it was now company policy to NOT stock books from any AuthorHouse or PublishAmerica writer.

If you're in too much of a hurry to get "published" and think having a bound copy counts as a pro credit, think again. It ain't happening.

If you have a small circle of fans (maybe they like what you posted on the Net, but the big kids in the real pub. houses are of a different mind) and want to sell a limited number of copies, then lulu.dom is a better choice. There will be a link somewhere on this site. That still does not count as a real publishing credit with the print editors.

What does count is to SELL something. For two years I sold only 5 small pieces to a small magazine--but I got paid for it. When the publishing house looking at my first novel asked if I'd sold anything I could say, "Yes. ~~~~~ Magazine bought everything I ever sent them." They took that seriously. They also bought my book! (They've bought nearly 20 of them now...)

Please read threads on AuthorHouse and take it to heart.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1107286

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=924&highlight=AuthorHouse will give you comments from writers who had a less than happy experience with A.H.

AuthorHouse is BAD NEWS. We're only trying to keep you from wandering off a cliff into a bottomless pit.


Buy a lot of my books.

Who buys? You? To make it look like you're a big seller? You'd have to buy thousands of copies--and it still won't get you the kind of notice you'd want from the big publishers. You can go bankrupt trying to build up false sales. Trust me, you are not the first to think of that ploy. It doesn't work.


Send the books out to real publishing companies to see if I can get a real contract on them.

Sending an AuthorHouse style bound book to a real pub house will get you rejected. It will get you rejected so fast that the bound copy flying past will suck the air right from your lungs.

FOLLOW SUBMISSION GUIDELINES. PERIOD.

A bound book tells them you are not serious about being a writer. They have guidelines for a reason; pay attention to them.

There are no short cuts in this business. You finish a book, shop it around, and while that's going on write the next one. Rinse, repeat.

If you're so worried about keeping your rights then go to the library's 808 section and find a book on publishing contracts. With most houses your rights revert to you after a certain set time anyway. (And newsflash--no one is going to steal your idea. That only happens after you hit the best seller list and then it won't matter.)


Good luck!

PS, Spellcheck and get Strunk & White's Elements of Style. Get it NOW. Off to the bookstore with you. Scoot!

[Bufty]

Aah, don't we all, Amy. :Hug2:

But follow the guidelines and remember, Amy, if your first Two or Three or whatever chapters as good as they should and can be, chances are an Agent will ask for the rest. And these have also to be as good as they can be. Time spent on polishing and editing isn't time wasted.

I also find it expensive, my dear, especially if a whole manuscript is despatched, and postage isn't cheap on this side of the pond. I have an inkjet, but using a local shop for laser printing has proved faster and cheaper and gives a sharper product.

Must get my own laser printer, but...:Hug2:

Good luck.

I really do want them to see all 500 pages...

Amy

[Tracy]

I know ink is expensive, but it's not that expensive. I've often thought that we writers are lucky in one sense because it costs so little in terms of money to go after our dreams. (The cost in time and heart-ache is another issue entirely!). Look at how much it costs business-people and inventors to go after their dreams - gulp!

When you've put your heart and soul and all that time into a novel, then don't begrudge the cost of giving it every chance. There are good tactical reasons to only send out about 5 copies of the mss at a time, but I suggest you don't do that just to save money.

To be honest, I always found it cheaper to tell prospective agents to just bin the mss rather than pay for an SAE. Especially since, on the few which have come back, they're that little bit too crumpled to be sent out again. so I have to print a new one anyway.

I wasn't rolling in it by any stretch, I'm not saying that the cost of the ink didn't hurt. But it was still very reasonable for pursuing a dream. And even on monetary terms - compared with a new dress, or a meal out, it was comparable - and I knew which was more valuable to me. (I'm based in Ireland, where things tend to be more expensive than the US, so I'm assuming ink isn't madly more expensive there than here?)

So I invite you to rethink it all and don't begrudge the cost of doing it properly - it's so worth it.

[PeeDee]

Which, if it means you're going the proper routes about this and not AuthorHouse, means I can sit back and breathe a deep sigh of relief. It always frightens me when someone even glances toward some of the more disreputeable POD's.

Other people do Crisis Hotlines. We do POD hotlines. Also, we love you. ;)

[CaroGirl]

Let me respond to the "art" reference. Please keep in mind that publishers, for reasons of their very own, have their own artists on staff and on contract. In my experience, they DO NOT want you to send your own artwork with your project, not even for picture books. If you aren't Maurice Sendak, don't send art with your submission. I hope someone better informed about this than I am responds with either a yay, or nay on this subject.

[Mike Coombes]

Please don't do this thing. Please oh please. I realize how expensive ink can be (boy oh boy do I realize....) but going with AuthorHouse means you'll be running the rest of this marathon with a bear trap on your leg.

Plus, they'll send you some damn annoying letters every three days. Urk.

Seconded - although I believe that should read a bear trap on EACH leg. Underwater. With crocodiles nibbling your personal areas.

[Elektra]

Hie thee hence to the Snarkives:

misssnark.blogspot.com

[Sassenach]

Amy:

Please take this advice in the spirit it is offered--to help another writer. It is obvious from your posts that you need to educate yourself about submission guidelines and the publishing business in general. Until you do, you're wasting your time and money [not to mention many reams of innocent paper.]

[veinglory]

I would suggest having a few people look at the book and suggest appropriate publishers. Then send them exactly what they want. Query letters, generally, which are much less expensive to send. That way you only send the whole manuscript to someone who really wants to see it--which improves the cost:benefit equation.

[PeeDee]

it *is* good artwork.

That said, what you have to sell the publisher on first and foremost is the writing. And THEN, you have to sell them beyond three chapters, and THEN you can say "Er. Um. I have art?"

[Elektra]

On illustrations:

http://misssnark.blogspot.com/2006/09/3rd-sr-crapometer-35.html

Also, does Manga have anything to do with your novel? To be honest, if I saw this in a submission, my first thought would be "teenager doodling during class"--and it would definitely hinder my abilit to take you seriously.

[PeeDee]

I've always liked the idea of illustrated adult novels, though I rarely see it usefully done.

Mostly, though, my world continues pleasently enough even without illustrated adult novels....and the novel had better be able to support itself without a single illustration (or, in the case of that Crapometer...a flipping bar graph.)

[CaroGirl]

Your artwork is great, beautiful, fantastic. My advice is the same: don't send it with your manuscript. Are you trying to sell your story, or your art? If you want to publish your novel, send a query to the publishers on your list, then respond with a partial or full, if requested. If you want to be hired on staff or contract to do artwork for a publisher (and you seem to have quite enough talent to do so), send them your artwork. But don't send both. Like PeeDee says, if they accept your manuscript, you can, at that time, present the artwork and they will either accept it, or use their own artists, their choice.

Good luck to you.

[veinglory]

The only exception I can think of is a manga press that publishes manga and anime-style novels or even includes illustrated books (straining my brain I think I came across just such a place recently). Good manga art might actually get their attention. I am assuming the novel is to some extent anime-themed?

[priceless1]

You've been given a lot of excellent advice. As one who sits on the other side of the desk, I admit to a pet peeve regarding submissions, and that is the unsavvy writer.

Submitting, or even querying, is the initial introduction to you and your work, and your main goal is to sell both to an editor. The only way to accomplish this is to be as educated as possible. Think of it as a job interview. Who is a prospective employer going to hire - the college grad who has corresponding education and has done research in the company/industry he's trying to enter or the person who set up an interview on a whim during his lunch break from Taco Bell and has no real clue of the job other than the pay is great?

Conversely, editors are going to be more interested in the writer who has an understanding about the business, knows how to follow submission guidelines, writes a professional cover letter and synopsis, and includes a marketing/promo plan. Publishing is a tough game, and editors are looking for the cream of the crop. Just my two trouble-making cents worth.

[PeeDee]

Conversely, editors are going to be more interested in the writer who has an understanding about the business, knows how to follow submission guidelines, writes a professional cover letter and synopsis, and includes a marketing/promo plan. Publishing is a tough game, and editors are looking for the cream of the crop. Just my two trouble-making cents worth.

I'm over here. :)

My most bestest advice, taken along wiht all the other advice you're getting is this: When talking to an editor, to an artist, to a copyeditor (on the rare occasion that you perhaps get to speak with that mysterious lot) to anyone at all....be nice. Be polite. Be friendly. Remember that they are not Destroying Your Precious Work, they are just as interesting and caring as you are, but without the umbilical cord, if you see what I mean.

I'm not saying you're being rude, or are in danger of it. It's just my personal pet peeve: Writers who are a little too impressed with their own ability to put one word after another on a piece of paper, and who are too willing to be rude to others over it.

[CaroGirl]

You've been given a lot of excellent advice. As one who sits on the other side of the desk, I admit to a pet peeve regarding submissions, and that is the unsavvy writer.

Submitting, or even querying, is the initial introduction to you and your work, and your main goal is to sell both to an editor. The only way to accomplish this is to be as educated as possible. Think of it as a job interview. Who is a prospective employer going to hire - the college grad who has corresponding education and has done research in the company/industry he's trying to enter or the person who set up an interview on a whim during his lunch break from Taco Bell and has no real clue of the job other than the pay is great?

Conversely, editors are going to be more interested in the writer who has an understanding about the business, knows how to follow submission guidelines, writes a professional cover letter and synopsis, and includes a marketing/promo plan. Publishing is a tough game, and editors are looking for the cream of the crop. Just my two trouble-making cents worth.
Great post. I wholeheartedly agree. Buy or borrow and read, from cover to cover, all the books you can on the subject of writing and publishing. Coming here is a great start. You'll definitely learn a lot on these boards, both about what to do and what not to do. You'll learn, too, where to post certain questions to get the best answers. For information about writing queries, go to the Share Your Work forum. When you think your query is the best it can be, you can post it for critique in the Queries section.

[Elektra]

Everthing feels so overwhelming in the beginning--good luck, and feel free to ask as many questions as you like!

[Sassenach]

Amy:

I'll be blunt. If your posts here are in any way reflective of your ms, it's full of spelling, grammar and usage errors.

What's with the capitalization of certain words [e.g., I Agree, Real Publishing, Print out]?

[PeeDee]

Amy:
I'll be blunt. If your posts here are in any way reflective of your ms, it's full of spelling, grammar and usage errors.
What's with the capitalization of certain words [e.g., I Agree, Real Publishing, Print out]?

Well. I don't know. My spelling tends to get a little wonky on the forums sometimes, especially if I'm trying my best not to drip pizza or something on the keyboard while I'm typing. I don't know if message board chatter is a good indication of anything in particular.

(y'know. Just saying.)

[Sassenach]

That's why I asked.

[priceless1]

When talking to an editor, to an artist, to a copyeditor (on the rare occasion that you perhaps get to speak with that mysterious lot) to anyone at all....be nice. Be polite. Be friendly. Remember that they are not Destroying Your Precious Work, they are just as interesting and caring as you are, but without the umbilical cord, if you see what I mean.


Okay, I forgot to mention the bit about being nice, which should go without saying. However, people would be shocked at the number of times we're invited to go forth and multiply with our aunt's donkey...that little gem was just recommended to me last week after I included a personalized critique with a rejected submission.

When we critique, it's not a personal attack, but a valiant effort to make the work sing. Your writing doesn't come directly from the hand of God, and it needs editing. Editing is a time to give the ego a vacation. Never forget - it's our dime going into an author's work, and we have to finesse it so that it's marketable to a wide audience. Any writer who can't handle the editing phase (which can be brutal and exhausting), or rejection needs to rethink their priorities.

[Elektra]

I'm sorry, but I couldn't help laughing at the title of this Amazon review:

"a true review of the book by a purchaser"

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it's one of your friends?

[On a side note, I do like the illustration in the text]

[Sassenach]

MS Word is a god send and here I am not useing it. I tend to post as if I were talking on IM so I am very sorry if it offends you. The one book that I do still have out on the market is this.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0977768821/ref=sr_11_1/104-8039037-5336709?%5Fencoding=UTF8

That link will let you read pages from it and even with someone professional editing it, there is still mistakes. If a publisher does take me on then yes, they will need to do a final edit. I will admit to it. So sorry. My sm's have only been edited by me.

Amy

I'm not a stickler for message board grammar, however, it seems to me that you need to work on usage in your manuscripts.

Unless your story and voice is absolutely awesome, a ms submitted with multiple errors is going to be rejected.

[priceless1]

MS Word is a god send and here I am not useing it. I tend to post as if I were talking on IM so I am very sorry if it offends you.

That link will let you read pages from it and even with someone professional editing it, there is still mistakes. If a publisher does take me on then yes, they will need to do a final edit. I will admit to it. So sorry. My sm's have only been edited by me.Amy
Amy, it's not that it's offensive in the classical sense. The ocassional misspelled word sneaks through in almost everyone's posts. What your posts reveal to me is that you make consistent spelling and sentence structural errors.

If you submit work that is reflective of what I'm seeing here, then I'd reject it outright. Why? Competition. There are too many talented, serious writers who have taken the time to learn their craft. A manuscript that is rife with spelling and structural errors goes back to that newbie category that most publishers are trying to avoid. It's vital that writers know enough about their shortcomings to appreciate they don't know enough and need to take some writing classes.

[Elektra]

And don't forget that Word ignores a lot of grammatical errors (the first page of the Amazon book, for instance, has quite a few comma mistakes).

It'll take a bit of effort, but in time you'll learn to weed out these mistakes (and focus on all the lovely new ones you'll begin to see :))

[PeeDee]

It's vital that writers know enough about their shortcomings to appreciate they don't know enough and need to take some writing classes.

Although you don't HAVE to take classes for anything at all. I've never taken a writer's class, or read a "how to write" book (except for pleasure) and I've done okay.

It's still a lot of work, though. No matter what direction you cut it, it's all a lot of work.

[Momento Mori]

amyfushigiyugi:
If I send a Printed out version to a pub and they send it back then I can reuse that Print out as a turn around and re-send it. Right? Maybe i should just stick to 5 print outs and wait on them to come back before sending to other publishers.

It depends on what condition they come back in. If they're dogeared or bent or have had coffee spilled on them, then you definitely don't want to send them out to another publisher or agent.

amyfushigiyugi:
Thats why I have so many finished books ready for publishing. 2 of the 3 books now ready I have never published.

I'm confused. Are you submitting all 3 books to traditional publishers, or just the 2 that have not been previously published? Because as the other people here have said, a traditional publisher or a reputable agent is v. unlikely to want to take on a book that's been published before (especially by a POD publisher).

amyfushigiyugi:
The lady that does the art reads my stories and draws what she see's. She is a friend of mine and loves my books enough to want to be the artist for them. Since I first went POD I didn't see the problem

It's not a problem with POD but it is likely to be a problem if you get accepted by a traditional publisher. As other people have said, you've got a long way to go before you start discussing cover art and illustrations with a traditional publisher - the important thing to focus on first is selling them on your writing.

Before you do anything though, sit down and give a hard critical look at the manuscripts to make sure they're the absolute best you can produce. Then find a good critique group to get their feedback and edit and rewrite it again according to the feedback received.

It sounds like your books are all in the fantasy genre and possibly fall into the YA bracket as well. Your starting point should be to look at which agents and publishers deal with that genre. With regard to your query letter, I think it needs work. You might want to check out Evil Editor (who gives polishes to query letters, which offer a good steer) in the first instance and as others have said, you can post it on the Queries section here for feedback. You need to make sure that the query letter is the best pitching document it could possibly be before sending it off.

amyfushigiyugi:
If a publisher does take me on then yes, they will need to do a final edit. I will admit to it. So sorry. My sm's have only been edited by me.

To be brutally honest, it's not a publisher's job to edit out grammatical and spelling errors. That's your job. I would be very surprised if any traditional publisher or agent would take on a manuscript that doesn't meet basic standards of English grammar. This goes back to my comment about editing. Find a critique group or take lessons to improve - the spellchecker and grammar checker on MS Word simply isn't enough.

You sound like you're in a hurry to get published and I think you need to understand that it's a long, slow process and a lot of hard work.

[priceless1]

Although you don't HAVE to take classes for anything at all. I've never taken a writer's class, or read a "how to write" book (except for pleasure) and I've done okay.

It's still a lot of work, though. No matter what direction you cut it, it's all a lot of work.
True, classes aren't always necessary. But when a manuscript is a mess, it's an indication heavy artillery is required. Again, this is strictly my two trouble-making cents opinion, but an uneducated writer isn't a serious writer - but simply a hobbyist.

[Momento Mori]

amyfushigiyugi:
I think writing fanfiction is a great way for new authors to tone up their writing skills but it also leaves you wide open to be hackled by people who are just simply having a bad day.

I agree that fanfic can be a good way of dipping your toes into writing (specifically, it can help you to get an idea of how to convey character and maintain plot momentum) but it's not as good a learning ground as writing original fiction. That's because you only really learn the craft when you come up with your own worlds and your own characters and think through the problems that they face and need to overcome.

It's great that your friends and former fanfic readers are being supportive as it can be a great motivator but please, please don't make the mistake in thinking that because they love what you do, everyone else will as well. You really need people who are going to be v. honest with you and tell you where they think something does not work. Out in the real world, people will tell you what they think and your fans won't be able to delete their opinions so easily.

[Sassenach]

That's why you need to learn to edit your own work.

[Momento Mori]

amyfushigiyugi:
I have 4 finished books and one is out as a POD right now. One of the other 3 books used to be through Author House but I pulled it and even added over 100 pages to it. Now I want to add it back in with my unpublished book.

Are they a series or do they operate as separate books? Do I need to read one before I read the others? If so, is it the Author House book that I need to read first?

If it is a series and the Author House book is the first one in it, then I don't know what the legal position is regarding the fact that you've made subsequent changes to it. Perhaps one of the other posters can advise as to whether it's still treated as having been published, or whether it takes effect as an entirely new manuscript.

amyfushigiyugi:
Where would I do this at? Maybe I could post the first chapter from the 4th book? If it truly has so many mistakes then i am ready to be flogged and will fix the errors.

There are Forums here where you can submit your work for critique. Alternatively, you can see if a local college in your area offers writing classes or critique groups where you can go and get it checked out.

The chances are that the manuscripts will contain errors - almost all of them do when you're just starting out and it's always good to get a neutral third party point of view on them.

amyfushigiyugi:
That will be my downfall. I useally do not see my own mistakes.

With apologies for being brutal again, but you need to look really hard at what you're doing. Treat it as though it's something that someone else has given to you and take a long critical look at it. Ask yourself if the plot makes sense, if the dialogue sounds realistic, if you believe in your characters. Look at the punctuation and word use. If there's something you're not sure about, look it up in the dictionary or a grammar book or ask someone who is more like to know for their opinion.

[Gillhoughly]

My last word on this thread (and there was much rejoicing).

Get Strunk and White's ELEMENTS OF STYLE (http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Style-Fourth-William-Strunk/dp/020530902X/sr=1-1/qid=1163116596/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-7389385-2656659?ie=UTF8&s=books). EVERY pro writer has this on their desk. If you want to be a pro, you HAVE to read like you passed fifth grade English. Now is the time to get into what should be a lifetime habit. The less work for an editor (and I'm one of 'em) the better the odds of making a sale.

Spellcheck everything, including forum posts so people take you seriously.

Get a beta reader (not a fan) to go over your stuff. A fan will only tell you what's nice about it. A beta reader will tell you what needs fixing.

Post portions of your work in the appropriate threads on this forum for feedback.

Look in the "Share Your Work" thread. I think the password is "vista."

No one will steal your idea here. We're the good guys.

Well...most of us are.

Hanging in the forums doesn't count as writing time, so I'm getting back to work.

[soloset]

I've always liked the idea of illustrated adult novels, though I rarely see it usefully done.

Mostly, though, my world continues pleasently enough even without illustrated adult novels....and the novel had better be able to support itself without a single illustration (or, in the case of that Crapometer...a flipping bar graph.)
I think I own exactly two novels with illustrations. Janissaries and The Spirit of Dorsai. That's it. I'd gladly purchase more, but it's definitely an added bonus, not an incentive to buy.

Yes lol I started out writing fanfiction and a fanfic snob had left a bad review saying she wouldnt buy a book. When my fan seen that, she saw red and had the review deleted and left one of her own. How do u leave a review for something you have never read?? I think writing fanfiction is a great way for new authors to tone up their writing skills but it also leaves you wide open to be hackled by people who are just simply having a bad day.
Hugs
Amy
Get away from those people before they bury you. Seriously. "Friends" like that will only tell you want you want to hear, and while I'm sure it's awfully nice to be defended so rabidly, it makes a terrible impression. Is she going to flame any professional book reviewers who don't like your book, too?

And you see how quickly even a casual viewer can pick up on a "fake" review -- how many potential readers passed this book over based on that? Looking over the reviews (all but one by people who have reviewed nothing but your two books), it's pretty obvious what's going on. And when you compare the contents of the reviews with the excerpt, well, these folks are NOT doing you any favors.

And I disagree that the current incarnation of fanfiction helps anyone "tone up their writing skills". You can't grow as a writer if all you're hearing is "LOL! I luv'd it plz rite mor", and worse, some of the stuff that is considered standard and even encouraged in fanfic is downright detrimental to good, publishable writing.

Decide what YOU want out of your writing and go for it. If that's lulu.com so you can sell copies to your fans, cool (but please don't be surprised at how few of them will actually shell money out for something they've been getting for free). If, on the other hand, you want a real career, listen to the advice in this thread and maybe try the SYW forum.

ETA: What Gillhoughly said.

[veinglory]

I think plenty of us and quite a few 'out' pro writers came into writing from fanfiction, but that is (as has been--several times) another topic.

[CrankItTo11]

They start coming back. The Next round i send out I will downsize to only a couple chapters per book?

Hugs for the advice,
Amy

Just be sure to follow the guidelines - many publishers and agents want nothing more than a query letter from you for the first contact. If your query letter interests them they will ask for more. Other agents and publisher request a *specifc* number of pages or chapters.

:)

Edit: Sorry this was really redundant... for some reason, I didn't see the second or third pages on this thread. Ah.... I need some more mountain dew.

[CrankItTo11]

If people think it is horrible then maybe I will stick to Author House.

Please don't give up that quickly... if people think it's "horrible", rewrite it.

Also keep in mind, opinions are just opinions. You'll learn to filter out useless criticisms and tune in to constructive criticisms.

Good luck to you!!

[KiwiChick]

I just posted to SYW. I copied and paisted it directly from the doc I would Print out to send to a publisher. If it's flogged *and it probably will be* It will be from people who do not know me and are not fans.

Hi Amy,

I've commented on the work you posted. I'm definitely in the "rewrite, don't give up" camp. :D

Good luck,
KiwiChick

[CaroGirl]

Please don't give up that quickly... if people think it's "horrible", rewrite it.

Also keep in mind, opinions are just opinions. You'll learn to filter out useless criticisms and tune in to constructive criticisms.

Good luck to you!!
I agree. It's too easy to take the if-everyone-doesn't-love-it-I-quit attitude. What's difficult is to adopt a mature and professional attitude that if they didn't love it, keep working on it and make them love it (or at least they'll respect you for the effort). Keep trying.

[James D. Macdonald]

If it's horrible then publishing it with AuthorHouse won't help.

[PeeDee]

Just a quick note. Two notes, actually.

1) My favorite illustrated book is a big, beautiful copy of "The Silmarillion" which is both expensive, heavy, and looks magnificant. Beautiful paintings (done by, I believe, the amazing Alan Lee. When I'm at home, I'll check.) I would love to have more books done that well. Not necessarily all of them, just some that I really like.

2) Fan-fiction, once a upon a time, was not so bad a thing as it is these days. I cut my teeth on fan-fiction, which means that I started writing very bad stuff...but by the time I stopped, I was writing some very good stuff. Some of the stories I wrote during my last year were still not publishable quality, but they were decent and they were readable, and people read them. It taught me a lot about working for an audience, and it taught me a HUGE amount of working with some sense of discipline.

In fact, I wwould go so far to say that my fanfiction work (done in serial format; some day, I will show you folks. Maybe.) taught me 90% of my discipline. I learned how to get 10,000 words out on a deadline, once every two weeks, whether or not I had anything to write, or wanted to write, or was too busy to write. I'm proud of that.

These days, I'm appalled by fanfiction. There used to be some really wonderful writers who mucked around with it. It was high quality stuff for awhile there, no kidding. Now, it terrifies me. It's the same damn kids who are writing angst-filled free-verse poetry about their hormonal high school years. Give me a break. Pull up your pants.

...

True, classes aren't always necessary. But when a manuscript is a mess, it's an indication heavy artillery is required. Again, this is strictly my two trouble-making cents opinion, but an uneducated writer isn't a serious writer - but simply a hobbyist.

Somehow, you and I seem to keep disagreeing. Be assured, I'm not trying to just be argumentative (which I dislike being a great deal).

This time, I was going to say that I don't agree...except, as I started to type, I realized that yes, I think we're on something of the same page. Even if you don't take classes for writing, you still need to read a LOT and write a LOT or you're not going to get good at what you're trying to do, and you're not going to keep at it when it gets rough.

So, if you take no classes, but you also read no books, you're still an "uneducated writer," and still not serious about it. And so. Here I am. Apparently in agreement.

Much better than arguing. :)

[CrankItTo11]

She made it to 4th grade then married and quit school. She always had a book in her hand.



OK, clearly I should let this go... but I will be wondering about your grandmother at 3:00 am if I don't ask this now: She was married right out of fourth grade? Wouldn't she be 9 or 10? Wha-wha-whaaat?

(I'm sure this isn't what you mean. I am also sure that I need to get a life if I am really concerned about this. Sorry to ignore the true point of your post by getting hung up on such a detail.)

[Toothpaste]

My spelling sucks. It really does. And what sucks more is that I need to therefore put far more effort into editing and making sure I fix all mistakes. Being a bad speller does not at all mean you are unintelligent. The unintelligent thing would be to assume that it doesn't matter and that it is someone else's job to fix it for you. Unfortunately we need to work harder than those for whom spelling is second nature. It's unfair, but true.

As for the artwork thing. I am not saying your book shouldn't have artwork, I think it's a fantastic idea. However it just isn't practice to send artwork in your initial contact with an agent/publisher. The world of publishing isn't dark, it just has a few simple rules. Very simple rules. Follow them, get accepted, and then talk about the art work.

[blacbird]

I've never taken a writer's class, or read a "how to write" book (except for pleasure) and I've done okay.

Yeah. And likewise I have taken classes, and haven't done okay. So it's pretty irrelevant.

caw.

[Sassenach]

I made strait A's in school but I was always the first down in spelling bee's. I have read historical Romance since I was 10 years old and can say with a strait face that I have probably read over 1,000 very thick ones. I think thats why I made such good grades.

Just a thought,
Amy

But to the editor or agent you send a submission to, that doesn't matter. All they'll see is your inability to spell "straight."

[PeeDee]

She was 12. I know thats bad but she had my daddy at 13. and she told me she only went till 4th so I always put 2 and 2 together. She died last christmas so I can't ask her now.
Hugs
Amy

:eek:

And I thought *I* was too young to be having a kid......!

[CrankItTo11]

She was 12. I know thats bad but she had my daddy at 13. and she told me she only went till 4th so I always put 2 and 2 together. She died last christmas so I can't ask her now.
Hugs
Amy


Wow. That's amazing... I didn't even know that it was legal to get married so young. I bet she had a lot of interesting stories to tell (hopefully, not all heartbreakers).

Thanks for indulging my nosiness (er…curiosity) and clarifying.

[KiwiChick]

She was 12. I know thats bad but she had my daddy at 13. and she told me she only went till 4th so I always put 2 and 2 together. She died last christmas so I can't ask her now.
Hugs
Amy

I've got to ask, what country was this in?

KiwiChick

[Elektra]

Perhaps it was legal at the time if a pregnancy was involved?

[priceless1]

Yeah. And likewise I have taken classes, and haven't done okay. So it's pretty irrelevant.caw.
All this means, blacbird, is that there may be some elements to your writing that have failed to launch. No one has ever said taking classes is a guarantee to publication, but more a form of learning the craft. Education is never irrelevant.

[allenparker]

All this means, blacbird, is that there may be some elements to your writing that have failed to launch. No one has ever said taking classes is a guarantee to publication, but more a form of learning the craft. Education is never irrelevant.

I think the answer resides between the three.

Learning to write is a matter of
1) Learning to write in a standard form.
2) Crafting a story many people want to read.
3) Communicating the elements of life through the images created in the story.

In order to do this, a writer has to experience some type of education that will insure their competency in these areas, whether it is in the classroom, learning from others' writing, or a gift from God.

As for me, I feel pretty certain that I will receive all of these items on my death bed. I hope that there is a laptop nearby.