C.bronco Up to No Good

[C.bronco]

I'm now the author of a petition to alleviate credit card debt.

Here's the link
http://www.petitiononline.com/cccir299/petition.html

[Bravo]

in all honesty, online petitions are really useless.

better luck w forming a really small group to work some phones.

and then build up from there.

good luck

[C.bronco]

I plan to, but will use the online page for signatures.

[Bravo]

what do you mean, "as signatures"?

for what?

[C.bronco]

I'll promote the petition, but I'm not lugging around a stack of papers. The online form will be the official signature page. Once I have a substantial number of signatures, I'll print it out and send it to members of Congress.

[Bravo]

okay.

good luck!

[robeiae]

I agree that the rates Credit Card companies charge should be capped and that some of the current rates are, indeed, criminal.

But the answer the credit card compnaies give will be along the lines of "it's the only way we can afford to issue credit to so many people who want it, because of all the debt we are forced to eat from people declaring banktrupcy and the like." And they have a small point, though they are using that point to stick it to everyone else and line their wallets.

So, I submit that capping credit card interest rates must be accompanied by more overhalls to the current bankrupcy laws, which remain far too lenient, imo. I feel bad for people who have to follow this route, but many people do not have to, and only do it because it allows them to avoid paying for luxuries they never needed and couldn't really afford.

As to what rates are are fair, I suggest a little research into Roman times. They had a pretty good idea about what the upper limit of interest rates should be, and why.

[C.bronco]

I'm not sure what they did in Roman times, but if you can recommend a resource I'll be delighted to check it out.
Yanno, I found my bank was charging me monthly for what I had in my savings account because it was less than $2,000. I had to close that "savings" account. Too bad I couldn't charge them 29.99% interest for using my money all of those years.

[robeiae]

There are some scholary articles on the subject. Try googling "Roman
Interest Rates."

The long and short of it: the Romans knew that 12% per annum was about what the upper limit of interest rates should be. Of course, if such a (wholly appropriate, imo) rate was mandated by law, most people wouldn't have credit cards, or at least their credit limit would be severely reduced, like to 200-500 bucks.

[Unique]

Rob's a smart guy. If he let's you pick his brain - do it.

And don't forget Rob, the cc companies issued a lot of cards to people they had no business issuing cards to - they targeted people with low, fixed income and no/bad credit histories. On purpose. Because they knew what the results would be.

[robeiae]

And don't forget Rob, the cc companies issued a lot of cards to people they had no business issuing cards to - they targeted people with low, fixed income and no/bad credit histories. On purpose. Because they knew what the results would be.Absolutely. And it's no accident that State Lottery advertising targets the exact same people.

[Unique]

Absolutely. And it's no accident that State Lottery advertising targets the exact same people.

Aye-yup.

The old wish in one hand, **it in the other; which one weighs more?
Too bad more people can't do the math.

[dclary]

Pretty sure s**t weighs more.

Mine does, anyway.

[C.bronco]

I'm googling. Something needs to be done.

[C.bronco]

3 signatures so far: woo hoo!
(okay, one is mine.)

[C.bronco]

There's gotta be someone else out there who has an opinion on usury...

[dclary]

I stopped keeping a balance on my credit cards a long time ago. No one forces you to run up your credit. Card companies provide a service to stupid people and should be allowed to make a profit from it.

[C.bronco]

Yeah, okay, but when your home heating oil bill doubles and your hot water heater breaks in January, you might do things that you otherwise would not do.

[dclary]

Yeah, okay, but when your home heating oil bill doubles and your hot water heater breaks in January, you might do things that you otherwise would not do.

I understand where you're coming from, I really do. The problem with proactive financial responsibility is that no one does it until it's too late.


There's a way out of debt for everyone, but you're right... paying minimum balances end up making you owe more and more and more.

Here's a quick guide to financial freedom. It really works.

A) Eliminate all extraneous expenses. Maid, dry cleaning, cable tv, x-box live, etc. Stop eating out. Gather up all your extra cash per month, and prepare for freedom. Let's say this is an extra $150 a month.

B) Order your debt by amount owed.

It might look like this:
Mortgage, 150,000, 2000 monthly
Honda, 12,000, 400 monthly
Capital One Credit Card, 6000, 200 monthly
Discover Card, 4000, 120 monthly.

Now, pay the bare minimums on the mortgage, honda, and capital one. Do this until you have paid off the discover card, by paying discover 120+150 (270) a month. This will take you two years, so you can see the vast importance of throwing ALL available money (arcade, vacation, bonuses) into it ASAP.

Now, you have 470 a month (200+120+150) to pay off the Capital One. You can do that in about a year.

Now you have 870 to pay off the Honda. Done in two years.

After 5 years you are debt free -- except for your house. For my part, I am working now toward eliminating my mortgage (in the example above, an additional 0 a month in principal is being paid. This will cut down a 30 year mortgage to a 20 year mortgage, and have you the sole owner of your house 10 years sooner


It's certainly not easy. But do you want to be a slave to the system? Freedom takes guts, courage, and blood once you're a slave. There's no easy way out.

[English Dave]

Deek, .........hypocrisy or irony?

[dclary]

Probably a bit of both, ED. I never can tell anymore.

[English Dave]

Probably a bit of both, ED. I never can tell anymore.

It's a line we're all fighting. :)

[C.bronco]

Maid, dry cleaning, cable tv, x-box live, etc. Stop eating out. Gather up all your extra cash per month, and prepare for freedom. Let's say this is an extra $150 a month.

LOL! I get your point, but I have none of those things (except basic cable). I can't remember the last time I was at a dry cleaners. Last time eating out? TGI Fridays for my son's birthday in July. I don't have a cell phone. I pay $8,000 per year in child care.
I appreciate what you're saying. Believe me, I spend a lot of time keeping our heads out of hot water. Many of my friends aren't doing a heck of a lot better.

[dclary]

Maid, dry cleaning, cable tv, x-box live, etc. Stop eating out. Gather up all your extra cash per month, and prepare for freedom. Let's say this is an extra $150 a month.

LOL! I get your point, but I have none of those things (except basic cable). I can't remember the last time I was at a dry cleaners. Last time eating out? TGI Fridays for my son's birthday in July. I don't have a cell phone. I pay $8,000 per year in child care.
I appreciate what you're saying. Believe me, I spend a lot of time keeping our heads out of hot water. Many of my friends aren't doing a heck of a lot better.

Well, I wish you all the luck in the world. The first three years of our marriage, I cut my income in half -- each year. Yeah. That sucked.

It took us a very, very long time to dig out from that hole, and to be honest, I couldn't do it without bankruptcy, because by the time I had my income stabilized, those bastard credit card companies were eating us alive.

We never would have made it without BK. I don't know how anyone who's legitimately in hot water and being as fiscally responsible as possible can make it, now that BK has been restructured in the card companies' favor.

[English Dave]

Well, I wish you all the luck in the world. The first three years of our marriage, I cut my income in half -- each year. Yeah. That sucked.

It took us a very, very long time to dig out from that hole, and to be honest, I couldn't do it without bankruptcy, because by the time I had my income stabilized, those bastard credit card companies were eating us alive.

We never would have made it without BK. I don't know how anyone who's legitimately in hot water and being as fiscally responsible as possible can make it, now that BK has been restructured in the card companies' favor.
I spent 10 years as an Insolvency accountant in the UK. There are ways. Don't know about the US.

[Joe Unidos]

Well, I wish you all the luck in the world. The first three years of our marriage, I cut my income in half -- each year. Yeah. That sucked.

It took us a very, very long time to dig out from that hole, and to be honest, I couldn't do it without bankruptcy, because by the time I had my income stabilized, those bastard credit card companies were eating us alive.

We never would have made it without BK. I don't know how anyone who's legitimately in hot water and being as fiscally responsible as possible can make it, now that BK has been restructured in the card companies' favor.

I'm not going to harp on ya, Deek, I promise --but the simple reality is that if someone was really "being as fiscally responsible as possible" then they simply wouldn't end up "legitimately in hot water." It's impossible to run up insurmountable credit card debt if you are using your credit cards responsibly. The very essence of responsible use is that it precludes insurmountable debt.

[English Dave]

I'm not going to harp on ya, Deek, I promise --but the simple reality is that if someone was really "being as fiscally responsible as possible" then they simply wouldn't end up "legitimately in hot water." It's impossible to run up insurmountable credit card debt if you are using your credit cards responsibly. The very essence of responsible use is that it precludes insurmountable debt.


Joe I'm going to have to disagree with you here. If you are in a position of your kids eating or not eating and you have a hundred bucks left on you credit card what are you going to do?

People will nearly always live above their means because they are optimistic by nature. They believe the good times they enjoyed when they got into hock will continue.

Often times they don't.

[Joe Unidos]

Joe I'm going to have to disagree with you here. If you are in a position of your kids eating or not eating and you have a hundred bucks left on you credit card what are you going to do?

People will nearly always live above their means because they are optimistic by nature. They believe the good times they enjoyed when they got into hock will continue.

Often times they don't.

It's absolutely true. Sure, folks will always do what they have to do. Sure, folks very often live above their means. That doesn't make it responsible credit card use. It's not a moral judgment. Getting yourself into credit card debt so deep that you have to file for bankruptcy doesn't make you a bad person --it just makes you someone who did not use their credit responsibly.

I agree there should be a system in place to get these people back on their feet. I just don't agree with deek's assertion that it can happen to someone who has been as "fiscally responsible as possible," as if they are some victim as opposed to a person who made mistakes and maybe deserves a second chance.

Should folks who run up multiple speeding tickets be able to have a driver's license? Sure, but those tickets aren't something that "happened to them."

[dclary]

It's absolutely true. Sure, folks will always do what they have to do. Sure, folks very often live above their means. That doesn't make it responsible credit card use. It's not a moral judgment. Getting yourself into credit card debt so deep that you have to file for bankruptcy doesn't make you a bad person --it just makes you someone who did not use their credit responsibly.

I agree there should be a system in place to get these people back on their feet. I just don't agree with deek's assertion that it can happen to someone who has been as "fiscally responsible as possible," as if they are some victim as opposed to a person who made mistakes and maybe deserves a second chance.

Should folks who run up multiple speeding tickets be able to have a driver's license? Sure, but those tickets aren't something that "happened to them."


Joe, I agree that the vast majority of people who are in financial trouble got there their damn selves. For me, it was living at year-one's spending limits, when year two and three were progressively smaller income.

But you have to admit that sh*t happens. Your engineer $100K a year husband who was stupid enough to join the national guard gets sent to Iraq for 2 years, and is now making $24K a year. Your entire home state is underwater from a hurricane. X360 came out and you really really need it.

Well, you know what I mean. I believe that it *can* happen to anyone --even the most responsible of people. But I also believe it's much more likely to happen to the guy who wasn't.

[Joe Unidos]

I agree completely. I only wanted to highlight that, IMHO, over-borrowing against future income projections is vastly different from being deployed or suffering through Katrina.

[English Dave]

I've dealt with hundreds of cases where people took a chance and it didn't work out. Financial institutions are there to make money. End of story. Morality doesn't enter into it on their side, but they'll rely on YOUR morality to repay the debt when things go **** up.
.

[Joe Unidos]

Personally, my bigger beef is the very existence of the credit report. That's the perfect example of Corporations being in charge of the world. The very idea that people's financial information isn't confidential as a default is absolutely fvcking ridiculous.

[robeiae]

Personally, my bigger beef is the very existence of the credit report. That's the perfect example of Corporations being in charge of the world. The very idea that people's financial information isn't confidential as a default is absolutely fvcking ridiculous.
This is true. Then lenders actually would have to be good at their job...