To Fill Or Not

[John61480]

Hi, this is related to a poll that was recently posted on adding or subtracting passages. My question is related.

How do people tell *when* to cut or fill? Is it science by word count? Or is it a gut feeling?

Right now, I'm going by a gut feeling during the re-read. As I read, I will get a spidey tingle during a long passage and that's when I'll pause to check. But I tend to think I over do this both ways at times because I'm not sure. So right now, I'm just going with the flow.

Does anybody have a system they could share?

[JanDarby]

Not a system, per se, but if I'm skimming as I read, even if it's the 70th time I've been over a passage, it's a bad sign, and I have to look more closely to see if the passage advances the plot or characterizes someone necessary or otherwise is needed. If not, it's gotta go.

JD

[stormie]

More of a gut feeling. I put the work aside for a week or so, move on to other WIP, then go back and reread the hard copy with a pencil. Or, if I'm being adventurous, I use the strike-out feature, comment feature, highlight feature, different colored font feature, in Microsoft Word. And pray my computer doesn't do its twice-a-day freeze before it automatically saves.

[scarletpeaches]

If it feeds the story, it stays in. If it wastes my eyes to read it, it comes out.

[TrainofThought]

I go with gut feeling. If it adds to the story, I keep it, and if it is page babble, I delete it. No science just my wonderful intellect (JK).

[Jamesaritchie]

Hi, this is related to a poll that was recently posted on adding or subtracting passages. My question is related.

How do people tell *when* to cut or fill? Is it science by word count? Or is it a gut feeling?

Right now, I'm going by a gut feeling during the re-read. As I read, I will get a spidey tingle during a long passage and that's when I'll pause to check. But I tend to think I over do this both ways at times because I'm not sure. So right now, I'm just going with the flow.

Does anybody have a system they could share?

It's both knowing what belongs, and proper word count. If it reads well, and if it adds to the story, you leave it in.

Unless it adds too much to the word count. Word count is important, and just because a passage reads well and adds to the story does not mean you can leave it in if it adds too much.

Sometimes whole sections, whole chapters, entire characters need to be cut away. You can't allow "It reads well and adds to the story" interfere with this cutting.

[Amiton]

I think, like most of the other posters, that it depends on the particular scenario. I don't think that there are many (if any) times that you should use filler just to pad your word count, though.

Pacing and flow are a big part in the decision for me. If a scene feels like it resolves too quickly or if it's not drawing enough attention to itself in the context of the overall story then it needs to be expanded. More detail added, more emphasis to pull the emotion of the scenario to the surface.

In keeping with the greater wisdom passed around this forum on the other side of the coin - if it doesn't add to the progression of the story then it gets the axe.

Amiton.

[janetbellinger]

I almost always need to fill rather than cut. I tend to go too quickly from one scene to another. Right now, as I rewrite, I am forcing myself to slow down and fill out the scene, rather than getting out the adrenaline rush then moving to the next scene.

[aghast]

fill - if you find yourself telling too much and showing too little, you will need to flesh out the scenes; cut - if you have too much detail and not enough plot or if you become redundant or go on and on about feelings etc then you probably should cut, also cut excess such as adjectives, filler words (very, seems, somehow, maybe, perhaps, etc

[Garpy]

Re-reading my stuff...if I find myself sighing as I go into a paragraph it's my subconscious telling me I went off on one again. Given attention spans these days, and the way people read books (on buses,trains) it's better to aim for too little than too much.

[Soccer Mom]

Yes, skimming my work is a sure sign that I need to cut. If it feels rushed on the re-read, it needs fleshing out. And I do pay attention to word count. It's important. Believe it or not, publishers and agents really do care about word count.

[greglondon]

Does anybody have a system they could share?

Have your beta readers put "+" and "-" marks on your manuscript.
plus for really good text. minus for where they fell out.
Don't cut eveyrthing that everyone puts a minus by
because everyone will slow down in different places.

I just had a critique from two published authors and
one said they really liked a particular chapter.
And the other said that I should delete that very same chapter.

But when the "minuses" start accumulating in one area,
seriously consider that it needs some work of some kind.
Either trimming or better telling or something.

[greglondon]

Oh, and I have a voice synthesizer on my computer and have had the computer read it to me. This really amps up my sensitivity to slow moving
sections because the computer only reads at a set pace.

[John61480]

I agree about the skimming part. That is exactly what happens that makes me think something is wrong.

I suppose my problem may be the fact that I'm telling too much in my writing. It is easy to go ballistic when this mode is on.

[SeanDSchaffer]

Hi, this is related to a poll that was recently posted on adding or subtracting passages. My question is related.

How do people tell *when* to cut or fill? Is it science by word count? Or is it a gut feeling?

....Snipped.


For me it's just a gut feeling. If my story is complete, I just know it, somehow.

I wish I could be more specific, but I am afraid that's all there is to this with me.

[Tracy]

In a way this is a huge question. It's more-or-less asking, "How do I write?" I say this because knowing how much to put in and how much to leave out is such an elemental part of the writing process.

I hope I don't sound sneery or dismissive when I say this, I certainly don't intend to, and have played around with phrasing the above to try to avoid that.

If we bring it back to basics, the purpose of writing a novel is to tell a story. We need a good story-line (plot) with interesting characters we can relate to, and so on.

It's like a lot of things, it's not so much what you've got, it's what you do with it!

Because once you ahve the plot and characters, you have to tell the story. You need to give enough detail that the reader can picture it well and easily, without so much that they get bogged down or bored. It's a balancing act, and how much detail to put in is one of the decisions writers have to make in every moment. (You don't have to get it right in every moment, that's why we have re-writes!)

So the answer is that you need to end up with a story which gives the right amount of information, at the right time, in the right way. If your initial draft has too much info, take it out; likewise if it has too little, put it in.

I think of writing like sculpting. the first draft is like shaping the clay roughly, and each subsequent draft gives finer and finer details. And sometimes I need to smooth away some clay, but sometimes I need to add it. Which of those options, when, how much, and into what shape, are totally depending on where the whole is now compared to where I want it to end up.

So there's no hard and fast answer to the question of whether it's better to add or subtract.

A few other points here - you need to aim for the right word count for your genre, that'll influence whether you're adding or subtracting. Also, as other posters have said, some of us tend to be 'underwriters' and others, 'overwriters'.

It helps too to be aware of your weaknesses. Like Janet, I tend to be too skimpy on descrption in the first draft. (*I* can see the scene perfectly, so have no need for myself to describe it!). So one whole re-write is devoted to adding in snippets of description to make the book come alive for the reader. In this case I'd definitely be adding to the mss.

Hope all this helps.

[The Lady]

Yup, it's a gut feeling thing with me. The reason I posted the poll was because I instinctively felt my scenes were sparse. When I filled them up they felt much better. Somebody up there, it might have been the original poster, mentioned going off. When I go off and I wonder what on earth I'm writing so much for, I discover they're the passages that on rereading hold up. They feel rich, build character, etc. They're the ones that hold my attention on the reread. It's obviously different for everybody.
Mr S. King had recommended cutting. That wasn't working for me so my poll just gave me the confidence to believe in my own system because so many others responded and said they also needed to fill.
Though, Mr. King's advice is still good, because rereading, looking to cut is a good practise. It does make every passage have to fight for survival and sometimes there's a great relief in just blocking and deleting.

[Evaine]

I like greglondon's idea of + and - signs.

It reminds me of Cold Comfort Farm, where Stella Gibbons put stars by the passages she thought particularly fine (she was poking fun at other, more serious authors by doing so).

[Del]

I'd go with gut. After all, it's yours and you have to put yourself into it.

I work like Stormie said. If I question it I highlight it. Eventually, after seeing it a dozen times I know what to do. Although, I've learned, if it talks back to me when I read it, in the end it will be gone.

[Éclairer]

Right now, I'm going by a gut feeling during the re-read.

I have my sister edit my work, but I only listen to her when I agree with her. It's your book. You are in control. If it charms you, keep it; if it's insipid, kill it.

[John61480]

Well, I guess that's what it really boils down to.