Critiques: How do you write them?

[poetinahat]

Hi, all -

We spend a lot of time and energy here talking about poetry -- writing it and reading it.

But without the critiques, this forum would be pretty lifeless. It could be fun and informative to talk about writing crits. Here's a starter set of questions to ponder.

- What elements do you think a good critique should have?
- Do you remain technical, do you give "feelings" feedback, or both?
- Do you call the poem good or bad?
- Do you offer specific rewrite suggestions?
- Why do you offer critiques? What do you get out of it -- what do you hope to accomplish?
- What prevents you from offering a crit?
- What sort of poem attracts your critique?

I'm looking forward to this discussion. Hope you enjoy it.

[drachin8]

Ohhh, this is an interesting potential discussion...

- What elements do you think a good critique should have?

I think the most important thing you can give is your experience while reading the poem. How did it make you feel at each point. Where did you get lost or confused. After that, I do think it is nice to bring up any technical issues as well, but only in the light of how they may distract from the piece or add to it. I think it can be really difficult at times trying not to cross the line of suggesting everything be put in a style that you personally enjoy (and I am sure I have crossed that line here and there)(*sigh*), but if you have any biases you are aware of, it is also nice to let the poet know so that they can take that into account (in case they don't hang around the board enough to have already figured out some personal biases).


- Do you remain technical, do you give "feelings" feedback, or both?

This one kind of depends on the poem and how much time I have. Less time means less technical because it takes me a while longer to digest something and think of how it might technically be improved upon (in my "humble" opinion)(hehe). Feelings are much easier to give, even though I know I can get a bit long-winded there as well.


- Do you call the poem good or bad?

Eep! I hope I have not implied to anyone that a poem is "good" or "bad", but I fear mayhap I have. If I have been critting a specific poet's works often enough, I do tend to let them know when I think something is not as strong as I expect, so that is kind of bad. Poetry is such a personal experience, though, that I don't think you can really call any poem "bad". I know I have had different opinions with other poets on this board over the contents of a poem, and I am okay with that. We're all such different people. One cannot expect every poem to speak the same to each of its readers.


- Do you offer specific rewrite suggestions?

I try to keep this to a minimum: word replacement, occasional rephrasing of tiny piece. There have been a few times in which I have put forth slightly reworked stanzas, usually to try and make a point (not counting when I am showing punctuation!). I worry at times that too many suggestions will dilute the power of the poetry's voice and make it more my own than theirs. Soooo, on that note, if anybody is annoyed by this from me, definitely let me know so I can stop!


- Why do you offer critiques? What do you get out of it -- what do you hope to accomplish?

I like seeing people grow. I also find that evaluating other pieces helps me to find ways of improving my own work. Living in a cocoon does not seem helpful towards creating an effective critiquing mind, and an effective critiquing mind feels necessary to me for evaluating my personal works. I also get a kick out of some of the neat research articles poems send me on (yeah, you are responsible for most of that, wordsheff!).


- What prevents you from offering a crit?

If it is a poem that is just obviously not in a style I really enjoy, I am far less likely to give a crit. I am not sure I can really evaluate a piece in-depth that doesn't have a part that rings true to me. Time is also a major factor. I do most of my poetry critiquing (and writing!) at work, so it depends on my workload as to how much time I have free to mull over a piece and put ina good critique. Also, if anybody was ever really rude in their responses to critiques, that would pretty much kill off my desire to crit them. I must also admit that I sometimes wait a bit to crit works of really new folk in hopes that they will offer some crits of their own instead of merely asking for mine. I feel bad about it sometimes, but I really appreciate it when people at least try to join in the community as opposed to simply take from it. Bad me. :)


- What sort of poem attracts your critique?

I like poems that evoke some sort of strong emotion or have a subtle wit about them. I have a long love of fairy tales and legends, so references like that will usually draw me in. Really, really long poems tend to lose my interest unless there is a solid story to them. I like to read poetry that the poet has taken seriously, not stuff that is being thrown on the board for the hell of it. If a poet decides to rhyme, I expect it to be done very well and not detract from the message. The moment it feels forced, my interest tends to wane. When it is smooth and beautiful, though, it can capture me completely.


Soooo, yeah. There ya go. There is still so much I can learn from reading other pieces on this board, and I love seeing where everyone's imagination has taken them. The facility of the poets on this board constantly amazes me. I know I am pretty bad about sticking down to the Poetry Critique forum only, but I do dream of someday having enough spare time to spread out and keep track of everything on both Poetry forums. I know I am missing a lot of good stuff on this upper forum.

:)

-Michelle

[Anthony Ravenscroft]

I've avoided critiquing poetry, even though I've loved verse forms for almost all my life.

When I'm presented with a piece that doesn't have some appeal for me, I simply try to get away as unobtrusively as possible. Okay, saying "Didn't get it" gives the writer nowhere to start from, & even though it's clear I'm stuck, I tend to get challenged for suggestions I don't have.

By definition, the great majority of pieces don't hold my attention. That includes sizable portions of the work of poets I happen to enjoy deeply, like Brautigan.

While I don't wish to derogate any erstwhile poet, the fact is that very few poems represent an amount of effort similar to what goes into a novel, or even a short story. And I hasten to admit that I've had too many encounters with "50 a day & 200 on Sundays" poets & am therefore horribly jaded.

Accidental humour is the easiest thing to crit & the hardest to do without laughing. I still shake my head over one who mentioned a personage making "an obscene jester" that put unfortunate images in my head for the rest of the piece.

There are few truly "bad" poems, but the turf's littered with the failed.

Raw mechanics are easiest. If a writer can't tell a sight-rhyme from an ear-rhyme, & changes at random, the text has to convince me that they're having a lark, else it's just wrong. My prejudice is that verse either works best when read aloud (listened to) or when read silently on the page; while there's a slim chance it could do both, one that does neither well is in deep trouble, & so is the writer.

I do have a severe pet peeve: the writer who glosses. Oh, I'll check the notes for Willy S or "Howl" or something, but I don't want a stranger using such opaque erudition that I'm expected to have a translator handy.

I'm drawn primarily to forms that I like to read &/or with which I've struggled.

My tainted experience is that most people who write poetry do so as a form of self-expression, rather than with primary intent of achieving academic excellence or getting published. By pointing out that they appear entirely unsure how to distinguish a iamb from a trochee (whether by definition or sound), I feel bad for hurting their feelings, & dislike damping the enthusiasm of an enthusiastic amateur who's satisfied with amateur status.

If I crit a piece, it's because something about it has managed to reach out to me, & I want it to be as good as my intuition tells me could occur. Often, by seeing how it's gone off the rails, I find that I pick up some little nugget as to how my own work might test the boundaries of the form, though with intent.

[louisgodwin]

I just wing it and say what I feel like saying. If I feel my pointing out something can make the poem better, then I'll point it out. I usually don't give crits on bad poetry, though. This doesn't mean if I didn't make a comment on your work that I thought it was bad. I only have enough time to read, like, maybe 2% of the poems here.

[poetinahat]

Fantastic responses. I'm heartened and edified. It's great to have these thoughts here.

More, please.

[Paint]

I felt like I answered the rest of these questions on the other thread.

What prevents you from offering a crit?
I did not like the poem and cannot think of a tactful or kind way to say it. Or someone else has already said how I think about it. This often the case here.

- What sort of poem attracts your critique?
Title! Things I am interested in, poems that make me think, or my favorite; change the way I think. I also like contemporary out of the norm styles.

[ddgryphon]

- What elements do you think a good critique should have?
What works, what doesn't work, what stands out, what could be rewritten or moved around.

- Do you remain technical, do you give "feelings" feedback, or both?
I don't know that you can help having feelings come into play. So I go with both, but I have trouble expressing exactly what I find technically wrong, and will usually offer a rewrite example if I feel it is called for.

- Do you call the poem good or bad?
Not really, if I feel a poem is perfect, I tend to say so, if I feel it has no potential I will leave it lie (if you can't say something nice). I also have to have a response to a poem before I'll do anything in the way of crtique. If I feel poorly toward it, I don't think I'm going to be helpful. Sometimes, it takes a couple of rewrites before it reaches that point for me. I try to say something positive whenever possible (but I must feel it is a genuine compliment and not something I'm saying just to be nice).

- Do you offer specific rewrite suggestions?
I think we can safely say yes to this one. Sometimes I can't help completely reworking a piece to have it "make sense" to me. I do however try to explain why I've done so -- why I made certain choices regarding the material. I worry that this intimidates some folks and puts them off, but I honestly have to make it "make sense" to me; I feel it is the best way to get my point across.

- Why do you offer critiques? What do you get out of it -- what do you hope to accomplish?
I offer critiques because I want them in return (selfish selfish me). It does a couple of things for me apart from that though. It allows me to work with material I'm not invested in, and can look at without being overly involved. I hope to give another perspective to the author (which is what I want in return).

- What prevents you from offering a crit?
Lack of involvement in the poem. It basically not striking me. Time. Sometimes I'm really unable to offer as complete a critique as I'd like.

- What sort of poem attracts your critique?
As I've said, I need to have an emotional or intellectual (or best both) reaction to it. Sometimes I'll just say WOW -- and when I do that it is heartfelt (Tru could make me do that 9 out of 10 times easy).

I offer critiques, because I feel I have a responsibility as a posting member here to do that. I hope they are helpful. I encourage people to ignore me if they don't agree with my assessment, and to look for their own voice, even if I offer a rewrite. I don't want to squash other people's voice -- I just want to give them a perspective to work from in terms of what I have to say.

Again, Great Thread!

[Rivana]

- What elements do you think a good critique should have?

Whatever the writer feels the poem is in need of. Tact is essential though.

- Do you remain technical, do you give "feelings" feedback, or both?

Either or both, depends on what I've got to say.

- Do you call the poem good or bad?

Sometimes I say it's got potential or is really good, but...etc. Again, it depends. I'd never say it was bad though.

- Do you offer specific rewrite suggestions?

If I feel it's warranted -yes.

- Why do you offer critiques? What do you get out of it -- what do you hope to accomplish?

Either because I feel I have something to contribute, want to show my appreciation or simply because the author asked.

- What prevents you from offering a crit?

If I don't say anything at all it's because the poem left me cold. If that's because it's just what I'd call shitty writing or because it's just not my scene it depends.

- What sort of poem attracts your critique?

I can comment on anything that I feel remotely interested in, but con crits I reserve for the deatils that bug me or the poems I feel something for, but are still in the 'potential' state according to my world.

[Godfather]

Firstly, I tell them if I like it or not,

then I tell them everything I notice as I go through it.

[LimeyDawg]

Hi, all -

- What elements do you think a good critique should have?
- Do you remain technical, do you give "feelings" feedback, or both? I've been active, in the past, on purely technical sites (ersatz workshops, as they bill themselves) and found that you can beat a poem to death with overly critical microscopic analysis of every line and word. That said, however, there are certain truisms of poetry that stand out and I do think that you can give feedback on these items (such as "show" don't "tell") and give the writer something to work with when they rewrite the work. Feelings are an equally important aspect from the reader's perspective because the poem fails if it doesn't elicit some sort of feeling. I think that telling how the piece made you feel is just as important as correcting technical aspects.
- Do you call the poem good or bad?No, or at least, not intentionally. If I like a poem it doesn't necessarily make it good, and the reverse is also true. I think that if a person cares enough about a subject to write it down then there is definitely the beginning of a good poem. Whether or not it succeeds is immaterial, IMO. As a critic, my job is to point out the logical flaws, grammar, spelling, etcetera, and also to praise the good. In conclusion, offer suggestions as to where I would improve.[/quote]
- Do you offer specific rewrite suggestions?Yes, whenever I can.
- Why do you offer critiques? What do you get out of it -- what do you hope to accomplish?If a work resonates with me or, at least, makes sense, then I want to say so. If there are flaws in the work I offer suggestions in the hope that the writer uses them to improve on the piece. Also, perhaps most importantly to me, I use my crits as a way for me to learn how to improve my craft. If I can see the good and the bad in other work, I hope to catch that in mine before posting. I'm writing poetry to improve my skill as a novelist.
- What prevents you from offering a crit?Several things. I won't crit a poem that makes me think "wow, that sucked." I also tend to stay away from lengthy works, probably due to my short attention span. Finally, I try to stay away from critiquing work that is far beyond my own ability...sort of out of respect for the quality.
- What sort of poem attracts your critique?
I like those whose imagery isn't buried in obscure metaphor or forced rhyme, or those that do not give me a headache by forcing me to reread ten times before I actually get what the writer is trying to say.

[padnar]

I don't think I can critique poem as poems for me
should speak from my heart . I love poems like those of Wordsworth
Shelley . My type of style is like that. It has no hidden meaning so
we cannot judge poetry
padma

[skelly]

- What elements do you think a good critique should have?
>>>>>I think a good critique should point out what the reviewer took away from the poem...meaning, image, whatever stirred you to the point that you felt like responding to the work. Beyond all of the technical stuff (or lack thereof), the poet wants to communicate something...some feeling or idea...and I want to let him or her know what I got out of it so they can decide if or not they are accomplishing what the set out to do with the piece.

- Do you remain technical, do you give "feelings" feedback, or both?
>>>>>Both, but only to the extent that I am capable on the technical side (which isn't very). Strictly technical critiques are boring. I want to know how my poem made you feel, or what it made you think. If anything. I want to see if we are connecting. I tend to crit from that perspective.

- Do you call the poem good or bad?
>>>>>Good, yes. Bad, no. I don't generally crit poems that I don't like at least something about, but if I critted a poem that I truly thought was bad I would probably point out whatever positives I could find and leave it at that. I don't think I'm far enough down the road that I can turn around and call other people's poetry bad. Also, if they are enjoying writing it, who cares? If the poet likes his or her poem then it is not bad. That I don't like a particular poem doesn't make it bad.

- Do you offer specific rewrite suggestions?
>>>>>If I have any.

- Why do you offer critiques? What do you get out of it -- what do you hope to accomplish?
>>>>>Mostly because I appreciate having my own work critiqued. Sometimes I read something so good that I forget about that and just enjoy pointing out to the poet what I liked about their work. Sometimes I like where a poet is going with a certain piece, but not the way they are trying to get there...so I offer up some suggestions.

- What prevents you from offering a crit?
>>>>>Lack of time. AAARRRGGGHHH! Also, if a poem just doesn't touch me or communicate to me on any level, I don't feel inclined to chime it just to say that. I move on to something that grabs me.

- What sort of poem attracts your critique?
>>>>>Something with startling imagery...show me something that I have seen a thousand times, but in a new way. Something that merges emotion, moment, metaphor, and meaning. Something that has heart...where I can tell the poet has laid themselves out there a bit...taken a chance...as opposed to just stringing words together and chopping them off in a vaguely poetic looking format. Finally...something that captures a moment--any moment--so perfectly that I feel as though I was there and shared the experience...especially when the poet is able to make it a metaphor for some deeper theme, as opposed to a shapshot (although I like the snapshots too)

[poetinahat]

I don't think I can critique poem as poems for me
should speak from my heart . I love poems like those of Wordsworth
Shelley . My type of style is like that. It has no hidden meaning so
we cannot judge poetry
padma
I disagree. Poetry can be well written or poorly written; certainly the ideas and images therein can be very personal, but they can be poorly expressed.

That's not to say that a critic is right to say that a poet is wrong to think or feel a certain way. But one can certainly put forth an opinion on whether the poem was well executed.

That said, critiques usually comprise a great deal of personal opinion. Comments on technical aspects (meter, punctuation, syntax, whether a form is applied correctly) are factual, but much of what we say in crits is qualitative. In other words, it's only the critic's opinion. And poetry, as art, must inspire opinions, otherwise it is truly dead.

[Appalachian Writer]

- What elements do you think a good critique should have?
- Do you remain technical, do you give "feelings" feedback, or both?
- Do you call the poem good or bad?
- Do you offer specific rewrite suggestions?
- Why do you offer critiques? What do you get out of it -- what do you hope to accomplish?
- What prevents you from offering a crit?
- What sort of poem attracts your critique?


I think any good critique should have first and foremost some positive feedback. No poem is completely without merit. The goal of critique is to improve not to discourage.

Technical feedback is a requirement, but without feeling? Poetry is feeling, the essence of something, someone, some place. Feelings feedback must be a part of any constructive criticism. If the poem leaves you cold, you should admit that to the writer, but offer up some way that the author might evoke stronger emotion. If you can't offer that sentiment, leave it alone.

Call it good? Yeah! Call it bad? I don't think bad is the right word to use. I'd simply say it could be improved with work.

Rewrite suggestions? One obstacle that is difficult to overcome is the element of style. Some things are just not my style, and if I include too many rewrite suggestions, then I might be superimposing my style on the work of another writer, a definite No-no! What I might do is to suggest different line breaks or elimination of repetition, maybe even a different metaphor, etc.

I usually offer critique when I read something I feel has real merit, a piece that touches me in some way but has elements that I feel distract the reader from the potential quality of the poem. I seldom critique work that I find to be without merit or problem pieces for which I can't offer solutions. When I offer my work to be critiqued, I've usually already put a huge amount of work into it. I like it, think it's pretty good but that something's missing, something I can't see because I'm too close to it. I hope that someone who is removed from the subject reads the piece and notices what I've missed.

There's no particular kind of poem that attracts my critique. I avoid poems that have rhyme schemes, but I've even found some of those intriguing and have made suggestions.

[Yowren Sites]

This is great stuff, and the more I read, the more I am loving this place.

But, at the risk of redundancy, I am new, and confused--with all the great advice here, I thought I'd have a look at some actual critique-in-action. I see that there is a forum designated for that, but...it's empty?

If I'm missing something obvious, would somebody help the freshman find her class? :)?

[Norman D Gutter]

Yowren:

It only looks empty because the forum is password protected. Until you click on the link, enter the password (which is given on at least two locations), and your computer accepts the cookie, it will appear empty on your screen. I assure you it isn't.

[scarletpeaches]

Hi, all -

We spend a lot of time and energy here talking about poetry -- writing it and reading it.

But without the critiques, this forum would be pretty lifeless. It could be fun and informative to talk about writing crits. Here's a starter set of questions to ponder.

- What elements do you think a good critique should have?

A knowledge of verse forms, if such are used in the poem(s).

- Do you remain technical, do you give "feelings" feedback, or both?

Personally I favour an emotional response, but not just "I feel this." I also like a little "I feel this because..." So a bit of both.

- Do you call the poem good or bad?

God, no. Good and bad are matters of opinion. Technically sound or 'it doesn't scan' would be okay, but 'good' or 'bad' are opinions.

- Do you offer specific rewrite suggestions?

Hell no.

You write the poem, it comes from your wellspring, not mine. If I try to tell you how to rewrite it, it becomes our creature rather than yours. Poems even more so than novels are sensitive to this because they're generally shorted than books and from a more personal place.

- Why do you offer critiques? What do you get out of it -- what do you hope to accomplish?

I don't, often. But when I do, I hope to understand what drove the poet to write the poem in the first place and the work itself.

And also to tidy things up a bit. Well, that's my OCD talking.

- What prevents you from offering a crit?

If the poem's 'free verse'. Or pretentious wank. Or I just don't like it.

- What sort of poem attracts your critique?

One that has form and rhyme.

I'm looking forward to this discussion. Hope you enjoy it.

:D

[Billytwice]

- Do you remain technical, do you give "feelings" feedback, or both?

I am not a poetry technician; I never studied English lit and only approach a poem with the perspective of an enthusiastic amateur. I just hope some find my comments helpful.


- Do you call the poem good or bad?

IMO there is no 'bad' poetry. (I actually appreciate the effort that has gone into writing a poem like 'The Tay Bridge Disaster.') Some would call it the work of a poetaster but hey, if it makes you smile it was worth the effort!

- Do you offer specific rewrite suggestions?

Often, sometimes just a word that may improve the sound (to my ear,) sometimes to correct an error of fact, but mostly to try and assist the writer who placed the poem for critique, after all isn't that the reason they placed it there in the first place? I take note of some of the other comments re offering specific rewrite suggestions, especially with regard to making the poem a 'joint effort' but here's the crunch, the poet doesn't have to agree with my comments or make the suggested changes. I just offer some extra points for consideration.

- Why do you offer critiques? What do you get out of it -- what do you hope to accomplish?

Tit for tat! I'm no expert, when I put one of my babies up there for scrutiny I expect it to get a mauling.

- What prevents you from offering a crit?

If I don't understand the poem I usually refrain from comment. Basically I wouldn't like to display my ignorance of something technically brilliant but totally incomprehensible to me.
Otherwise I'm usually put off or annoyed when someone takes a comment personally. That is not my intention.

- What sort of poem attracts your critique?

Anything that grabs my attention really.

[Dipstick]

Hi all!

Well as a two day old infant member here I wish to say thanks for any and all input you may give me, and please be honest. If you do not like a piece I write, there has to be a reason it turned you away as opposed to making you embrace it... You do me the honor of telling me when my zipper is down, so please do.

I will never post something that I do not consider as finished without expressing my insecurity on the piece and so, if you can point out what you feel about a piece I can ask for no higher favor from you.

That said, I hope to become published one day... a full time, honest to goodness, PRO-fessional! So.... there you go, you have my permission to be honest.

Now for your questions..............

- What elements do you think a good critique should have?

Honesty of both the good and the bad... let's face it some stuff stinks. It is a friend who will tell you the truth. That does not mean that niceness is not required. A poem most generally is from the soul of another person; it deserves respect for that reason alone. It should include explanations for the comments, both good and bad, as without comments improvement can never be made. No one ever became a master by being lied to, but they were not left with a criticism void of explanation either.

- Do you remain technical, do you give "feelings" feedback, or both?

Simple answer is both... but primarily feelings. If interested keep reading or skip to next question.

This is a hard one for me, as I disagree with most of the technical stuff I have read on the subject for a single reason... before the technical was ever defined, the poem it applied to was written first. Therefore, the technical subjects ought to be nothing more than a categorical descriptor of the items to which it is referring, not the cage or mold into which a poet or poem if shoved and must fit in if it is to be considered "good". There is a problem when there is no longer any latitude available to a poet to operate outside of the "traditional." Who knows, what is being beat up today may become the herald as the perfect example of the next "new" style tomorrow.

Poetry is the expression of the soul, and though I feel certain aspects such as rhyme, and rhythm are important, I do not feel that a poem is less valuable or valid if it is lacking these things, though I personally cringe when I hear prose called a poem simply because someone wanted to call it so... but that is nothing more than an opinion.

Someone above me in this thread said something like this, it should flow, gracefully, and should not feel forced... there should be no speed bumps or pot holes when reading it. It should paint a picture that is clearly seen or evoke an emotion which is clearly felt, in short it should connect. It should be written for the reader if it is intended to be printed and read, or written for the orator if it is meant to be orally presented, and if written for oral, then a note would be nice to direct the reader how to properly aproach the poem.

Beyond that who cares? Let it alone... maybe it was good and I just missed it?

That said about technicals, I seek a poem that touches me, moves me, stirs me, either emotionally or intellectually. I am a feeling person, and I think I have an obligation to find the author's feelings in their poem.


- Do you call the poem good or bad?

I will never tell you outright that your poem sucks. I WILL tell you if I feel your poem is good, and I will always attempt to find something good in a poem to comment positively on.


- Do you offer specific rewrite suggestions?

I have an obligation to the author to do so if they post it in a thread intended for critiquing, or in a place known for open season criticism.

- Why do you offer critiques? What do you get out of it -- what do you hope to accomplish?

Improvement. I hope you all eat my lunch when I deserve it so I can learn, and become better... likewise though I keep the gloves on I seldom pull punches too much. I think that a private message is preferred to a public slam, but for those seeking knowledge, who are too insecure to submit their own works yet, they need to see public criticisms which they can then apply to their own work.

- What prevents you from offering a crit?

I will avoid someone who gets offended easily of is not a writer whose works stir me favorably. Basically, if I fear I will get accused of beating up on someone I will remain silent and leave them in their mess.

- What sort of poem attracts your critique?

A well metered, overtly poetic, preferrably rhyming poem which is not on a harsh subject. I want to go away feeling uplifted, or moved... not angry and depressed and dirty.

Well that about covers it.

[Priene]

What elements do you think a good critique should have?

Good explanations of what is wrong in the poem, and indications of how it might be improved. If a writer has written a clunky line, if you start striking words without explaining what's wrong with them, the writer is more likely to be confused than enlightened.

Do you remain technical, do you give "feelings" feedback, or both?

Purely technical. I leave the feeling stuff to others.


Do you call the poem good or bad?

No, because that's irrelevant. You come to a critique forum in order to become a better poet. All good poets start off as bad poets. How do you improve? That's the only question.

Do you offer specific rewrite suggestions?

As illustrations, I might (ie, if you swap these two words here then you're metre will improve because...). Other than that, never. The point is to improve the poet, not the poem.


Why do you offer critiques? What do you get out of it -- what do you hope to accomplish?

Just general benevolence, I suppose. I don't critique others' poems differently to how I'd critique my own, so I don't think it's a learning experience.

What prevents you from offering a crit?

Being critted back is a constant irritation, and happens so often it's almost the norm. Also, I've spent ninety minutes on a critique and had the author not even acknowledge it.

What else? I've been negative repped. That wasn't pleasant. Having others respond with posts which say nothing more than "ignore what Priene just said". That's both rude and pathetic.

And running in poets who are emotionally invested in a given poem. If you don't know a person's mindset, you don't know whether they're going to take things to heart.

Which sum up why I've more or less given up critiquing.

What sort of poem attracts your critique?

a) The poem has to have something in it, just a phrase perhaps, which gives the indication that the writer could become a good poet
b) I have to feel that there's something I could contribute.

[Teena]

- What elements do you think a good critique should have?

Suggestions on how to improve what doesn't work and comments on the bits that are well done. I'm guilty of saying something is 'wonderful' and leaving it at that, especially if I'm rushed for time or can't think of anything else to say; but that's like letting your mom read it. She'll love everything you write, but give no helpful feedback. That's why we post in the crit forum, right? to get feedback? Is it good enough to submit or bad enough for the compost?

- Do you remain technical, do you give "feelings" feedback, or both?

Technical feedback for typos or mis-used words. I won't crit "accepted form" because I'm not interested in form. I write to express, rather than fit a standard, and I read to find meaning in the words, not whether it meets the criteria. I consider everything else to be 'feelings' feedback because it's subjective.

- Do you call the poem good or bad?

Not 'bad,' that's like telling someone they have an ugly baby, and is my opinon. I've read pieces on this site I didn't care for but others loved. I don't believe in poetry 'experts.' Poetry is personal and interpretative for the reader and the writer. I've said 'well done' based on my opinion; sometimes on a stanza, sometimes on a whole piece. I try to give an example of a line or stanza that I really liked, even if I didn't like the poem overall. But I won't say I liked something if I didn't. I once said a poem was clever but "impossible to read," which came out really wrong and I still feel bad. I wasn't criticizing the poet's ability or cleverness, which are both evident, but my own inability which lessened my appreciation. [I need to delete that post.]

- Do you offer specific rewrite suggestions?

If I think I'm on solid footing with what I suggest, but I always feel arrogant when doing so and afraid I'm overstepping boundaries. I do it to help, especially people who say they've only been writing poetry for a very short time and think they're doing everything wrong or don't know how to change it; then I try to offer rewrite suggestions as a visual example. If I have done this and offended anyone, I'm sorry.

- Why do you offer critiques? What do you get out of it -- what do you hope to accomplish?

Why? To enhance the craft & encourage new or insecure poets, if I have something constructive to offer. What do I get? Warm fuzzies if it's appreciated and they say it helped them. I've learned about my own poetry from critiquing others.

- What prevents you from offering a crit?

If I don't feel qualified (or interest) in dealing with things like accepted form. I don't crit if I'm having a bad day that could influence my judgment or comments; or if others have done a great job of critting it already.

- What sort of poem attracts your critique?

Those that call my name. :D Sometimes a poem will hold such meaning for me or have a turn of phrase that takes my breath and I must comment. Other times I have an idea that may help improve some aspect.


This is a great thread. Thanks.

[Feiss]

- What elements do you think a good critique should have?
I think a good critique should give the writer an idea of what kind of response their poem elicited in you. Sometimes, those are the most helpful ones for me, it's a quick sounding board, a way to measure how successful your poem is. A good critique can also be one that is thorough and honest, line by line impressions, details on how certain words made the reader feel.
- Do you remain technical, do you give "feelings" feedback, or both?
I'm very rarely techinical, b'c I'm technically unpolished myself, but if I spot something obvious, like words that clutter the line, or don't even need to be there for the meaning to stay the same, cliches, weird punctuation, I'll point it out. Most of the time, it's a feeling.
- Do you call the poem good or bad?
I call a poem good, if I'm critting a poem that needs improvement, it's because I think it can improve. If it can't become anything beyond mediocre (you know what I mean "the spring, is springy and greeny and bunnies fluff fluff I love you" type), I stay away.
- Do you offer specific rewrite suggestions?
Most of the time, only in terms of what to cut and how to make less awkward. I don't like putting words in peoples' mouths b'c it might be totally different from their intention.
- Why do you offer critiques? What do you get out of it -- what do you hope to accomplish?
I've found that by offering crits, I often gain a lot of knowledge on how to crit my own poems. When I suggest cutting something, sometimes I flash back to my own poem, and go "damn, I did the exact same thing." Also, people on this board have been kind enough to crit my poems, and I want to give back. Also, I feel like creativity is like bacteria, if you don't feed it augur it won't spread and become infectious and holy runaway metaphor.
- What prevents you from offering a crit?
If I feel like it's perfect, I tend to genuflect instead of critting. If I feel like something's wrong, but I don't know how to say it, or where to start. If the topic is so personal and heartbreaking, I'd feel like a jerk critting it.
- What sort of poem attracts your critique?
The ones where I feel like my input might help the writer.


boop boop be doop

[dclary]

I give very generic overviews of what I see a poem's strengths or weaknesses are. If I can readily identify something specifically that bugs me about a poem, I'll point it out. If I like it, I'll say so, and offer any nitpicks. If I love it, I'll say that too.

I'll rarely say a poem sucks. Instead, I'll say that it failed to do what the poet had intended.

[rawwriter]

What elements do you think a good critique should have?
-point out inconsistencies in images or the flow of the words
-give suggestions but don't say you have to do something, just give your ideas then let it go
-give positive feedback, what was something you liked? and negative, what was something you didn't like? explain yourself
-talk about images that stood out
-flaws in rhyme, form or use of words
-confusions
-first and second lines, since they are one of the most important
- discuss what you think it means
-talk about emotions, first reactions, etc.

Do you remain technical, do you give "feelings" feedback, or both?
I do both, feelings and the technical parts of writing are equally important. Talk about what you thought about, that would make it more interesting. Talk about if you felt bored or sad or mad, etc. but also discuss the technical parts of writing as well. This helps push the writer to be a better writer.

Do you call the poem good or bad?
No there's no such thing and there's no point in doing that. How does that help the writer grow? It doesn't.
There's no point in saying you loved it or hated it either. Either come to critique or don't come at all.

Do you offer specific rewrite suggestions?
Yes, I like to give my ideas and cross things out that I don't think are needed. It helps to copy and paste the whole poem, read over a couple of times then start revising as if it were your poem. The writer might not use all of what you said but there will most likely be at least one or two things they will want to use.


Why do you offer critiques? What do you get out of it -- what do you hope to accomplish?
I grow as a writer. Reading other people's work challenges me. I learn a lot from other people and it's fun to explore other people's writing. Some people write just because they love it, not because they want money, fame or prestigue and I think that's awesome. I'd like to find more writers like that.
I hope to find more ideas for my poetry and stories too. The whole point is to grow as a writer and discover things you've never discovered before.

What prevents you from offering a crit?
Only myself. I like to critique although it takes a lot of time out of my day so I don't do too many. One or two a day is good until I get really good then maybe I'll be able to do 10 in an hour.

What sort of poem attracts your critique?
I like horror, romance, interesting descriptions and anything that makes me laugh.

[Ruv Draba]

Hi all. I got lured in by another thread, and thought I'd take a swipe at this one too. :D

- What elements do you think a good critique should have?
Focus, balance, robustness, reaction
- Do you remain technical, do you give "feelings" feedback, or both?
Both, if I can. Technics can be tricky though. It's harder to guess intent in some poems than it is in prose.
- Do you call the poem good or bad?
I like author and teacher Jim Van Pelt's take on writing in general: a good writer needs the power to observe, a felicity with language and something to say. I think that a poem either evidences those things, or not. We can say whether we see the evidence, or not.
- Do you offer specific rewrite suggestions?
I've offered structural suggestions, but I think the question of intent is too delicate in poetry to do more than make occasional suggestions about sentence-shape, juxtapositions and substitutions.
- Why do you offer critiques? What do you get out of it -- what do you hope to accomplish?
I find poetry much harder to critique than prose, but I like to understand why a poem works for me, or doesn't. I also like the crafting of music from words and ideas.
- What prevents you from offering a crit?
My ambivalence, imbalance of opinion (e.g. if I think it's crap), the fragility of my critique (e.g. I don't know enough to be useful) or lack of affect. A previous history of the author to not get much from my critique.
- What sort of poem attracts your critique?
Ones where I think the poem's talking, and I can see somethiing that the poet can't.

[Ganesha]

- What elements do you think a good critique should have?Inspired direction to improve the poem and support for what works
- Do you remain technical, do you give "feelings" feedback, or both?I am not a technical feedback person so I must rely on my gut reactions and sense of flow
- Do you call the poem good or bad?That is a value judgment that may not be useful to the writer
- Do you offer specific rewrite suggestions?I do share where I stumble or loose focus: but grammatical or punctuation suggestions are not my forte.
- Why do you offer critiques? What do you get out of it -- what do you hope to accomplish?Sometimes I'm inspired and can see clearly if there are words that are unnecessary.
- What prevents you from offering a crit?Insecurity on not knowing just how to express the changes I can sense will need to be implemented. Otherwise I do enjoy sharing why I have been moved by a poem.
- What sort of poem attracts your critique?A poem that grabs me and, for me, it helps if they are not too long.

[Blarg]

Hi, all -

We spend a lot of time and energy here talking about poetry -- writing it and reading it.

But without the critiques, this forum would be pretty lifeless. It could be fun and informative to talk about writing crits. Here's a starter set of questions to ponder.

- What elements do you think a good critique should have?
----- Humility; openness; a laser focus, where necessary, but one that is suited for the level of both the work and the author's development; the patience to read a work of any depth at least several times and reserve one's opinions until then; for poetry especially, as profound a sense of rhythm and meter as possible; and the ability to read every verse with a full awareness of every other verse, and understand the connections and dependencies. Criticisms demand perspective, so a critic whose attention and awareness can't be sustained for more than a few lines or a stanza is of limited use to anyone and may even be counterproductive.

- Do you remain technical, do you give "feelings" feedback, or both?
----- Both, as both can be invaluable. But I try to have the humility to ask myself if I am quite positive what my feelings and understanding are before communicating them, and, if I am in a muddle, to simply ask. It is vital to allow oneself the luxury of an unexpressed thought occasionally. Bird-brained, right off the top of one's head responses have some legitimacy, but they have their limits, too.

- Do you call the poem good or bad?
----- I may call it good, but calling something bad isn't very helpful. It's my rule in life -- or at least one I attempt to manifest as well as my limited powers and self-awareness allow -- to stay far away from criticism that is on the order of, "This sucks" or "You're bad." It can be very destructive to be negative but not give a reason why.

- Do you offer specific rewrite suggestions?
----- Often. But I don't try to change anyone's style too much, even if it makes me cringe. I try to work within the parameters I'm given in the poem, and within my interpretation of the author's style. Also, if I find myself changing too much, I try to step back and ask myself if I have completely lost my way and if there is a more fitting way to fix problems. An author wants to be himself, only better; he doesn't want to be me.

- Why do you offer critiques? What do you get out of it -- what do you hope to accomplish?
----- Empathy and sympathy with this befuddled race, mostly. Accomplish? If someone gets happier than he started, or even furious and hates my guts but then realizes later I might have had a point, then I haven't totally wasted my time.

- What prevents you from offering a crit?
----- Boorish or know-it-all behavior, or general unfriendliness on the part of an author. Doing a good crit often takes quite a bit of time and effort, and since there's always someone deserving who is getting nothing, I don't want to work for free for someone who is not even very nice. Also, I often refrain from commenting on a poem that looks like the author didn't put any work or thought into it. Why should I work harder than he has? Why should I care more about his poem than he does? Helping is a wonderful thing, but you have to husband your resources in life. Someone showing me he is serious about warranting criticism is much more likely to get it.

- What sort of poem attracts your critique?
----- One that shows the author cares about it and has put some work into it. I really don't care about cocktail napkin scribblings of half-cocked notions. I'm especially interested in poems that take me somewhere emotionally important and honest. Life is short. I don't have time to read the same trivia a thousand times, much less bust my hump commenting on it as it's vaporizing back into the nothingness from whence it came. I'm also naturally drawn to a poem which doesn't just have a good concept, but can express it poetically well. Good rhythm, a bit of drama in the pacing, perhaps even the occasional sly jump in eiither or both if a dramatic effect comes along that warrants it; that sort of thing makes me remember I am reading poetry, not prose. Much poetry seems to be prose arbitrarily broken up, as if giving a word or two their own lines automatically created meaning and drama. It does not. Show me poetry, and I'll follow you down the rabbit hole. Stick a bunch of words together and I'll just try my best to either be polite or say nothing at all.