Approaching beta readers

[CaroGirl]

I feel I'm getting closer to handing my WIP off to some beta readers and I have a question for those of you who have done it. Do you simply hand it over without comment and wait for their feedback, or do you give them a list of things you want them to look for or think about while reading?

I have experience receiving comments on my work, and I think I'm pretty good at taking what's useful and discarding the rest. I have received some valuable crits on my short stories with regard to plot holes and other more glaring mistakes. I'm somewhat less interested in personal opinion, but am willing to take such feedback as long as it's honest.

[Dru]

Do you have an established relationship with these beta readers already? If you don't then guided comments on what you would like feedback might make sense. There are some good guidelines out there from critters and similar boards on getting useful feedback from people. Are you looking for plot, story, characterization, grammar, technical feedback?

If you know your betas well, and their particular strengths and weaknesses, then you might just hand them the reins to see what "natural" feedback they give you.

It really depends on what you want back from the betas. Do you want "dry run" feedback on character, story, and big ticket items? Do you want copy edit, physics, continuity commentary?

Are you giving them the entire WIP, or dealing it out piece by piece? I find that dealing out the entire thing works well for "reader reaction" feedback, and piece by piece works well for more technical and guided feedback.

Unfortunately, this is one of those things where you may have to experiment some to see what works best, and who is works best with. Some betas are excellent in different arenas, so you might need some overlap.

--Dru

[jbal]

I tried not to lead them at all, just to get their impression as they would if they were just reading any book. I felt like if I gave them something to look for, they would more likely find it. I also don't share the comments of one reader with another for the same reason. That way if they all independently have the same comment or find fault with the same thing I know I didn't lead them into it.
"Pay attention to this part, everyone says it sucks but don't let that influence you."
Sorry if this makes no sense, I'm writing it really quick.

[NeuroFizz]

Always approach beta readers from downwind, and from the side, in a half-crouch. It's best to feed them first to make sure they have a full belly. Never, ever make direct eye contact. After that, give them free reign, unless there is a specific problem area on which you want more detailed attention.

[sunandshadow]

I generally tell them something like "Don't bother marking spelling, punctuation, grammar, etc., no point doing that until the final draft. Instead please comment on "huh?" moments, scene organization, character development, infodumping, and other structure and content issues.

[CaroGirl]

Always approach beta readers from downwind, and from the side, in a half-crouch. It's best to feed them first to make sure they have a full belly. Never, ever make direct eye contact.
Are you planning to hunt and kill your beta readers?

I do, however, take your meaning.

[Steve W]

Hi,

I don't like to lead them either. I feel if I ask about 'problem areas' they'll naturally give those areas greater attention and look for problems where there might not be any, purely because of my suggestion. I prefer to give short sections - a chapter or so - and then have a good Q & A session. Failing that, I try to have a good chat after each decent chunk they've read. If I leave it till they've finished the whole thing, I only get a tiny bit of the feedback I should simply because they aren't professional readers so forgot stuff.

Cheers,
Steve

[earthshoes]

How many beta readers do you guys usually seek? Who do you ask? Friends? Strangers on the street? I am asking this because out of the four I asked to read this time--

One responded within two weeks with excellent suggestions.
One disappeared half-way through it--though he was enthused for the first half.
The other two never resurfaced. I am beginning to worry . . . Maybe the story has more power than I realized . . . Maybe they've been sucked into it and are being chased by ghoulish representations of my characters . . . It is a ghost story after all . . .

[katiemac]

I feel I'm getting closer to handing my WIP off to some beta readers and I have a question for those of you who have done it. Do you simply hand it over without comment and wait for their feedback, or do you give them a list of things you want them to look for or think about while reading?

I prefer they read the WIP without me initially asking questions, but I usually have some pointed questions prepared for them to answer. This way, I have some framework for their feedback without forcing them to come up with it off the tops of their head, but I also feel it doesn't influence them. For example, if I say, "I want you to read this excerpt because I don't like the way Character A speaks to B," then your beta may be (unconsciously) fishing for problems instead of just reading the story.

[Jaycinth]

I hand my beta readers the manuscript and some purple and green fine point pens and wait for the fun to begin. One of my betas reads like.. well she says she 'reads like a bunch of black folks at the 9 pm show'. meaning that if I have a character who's running from something she'll put stuff in the margins like "You go girl, don't turn around..I done TOLE you not to turn around..now you gotta shoot him. What you forgot your gun, oh that's ok, take the one off the dead cop in the alley" She'll do stuff like that in green so I know she's enjoying it. Sometimes that helps to point out silly stuff, like how did the dead cop get into the alley. The real editation she'll do in purple and be real serious "Hit the ball with a cat?? BAT!!" or "Mary, Maerie, Mayrie? stop changing her name!" ( I try to save the real good ones, she's cool)
My other Beta will just call me anytime something bothers him. He tells me then marks it on the paper after he's sure I understood what he was wondering about. Sometimes he wants me to print out the chapter with changes before he will go onto the next one. He's real picky about continuity and can spot it if I have the sun shining on one page and snow falling on the next.
My third Beta wants me to turn everything into a 'spy novel' but she can pick out a misspelled word at a hundred paces with her eyes shut. Maybe one day I'll write her a spy story.

[JanDarby]

For me, the key is in knowing what I want from each beta readers, and it can be different types of feedback, depending on whether they're primarily readers or writers. I write light-hearted stuff usually (although some of it's also sexy), so I have one beta reader whose job is just to tell me if she laughed when she was reading it. Others, I might ask to look at plot structure or tell me if anything's confusing or just tell me which page they stopped reading on. Just depends on their expertise and what I want the feedback for.

JD

[Serena Casey]

I have no experience with this (yet) but I will be getting my manuscript out to several betas in the next week or so. Like some of the above posters, I don't want to say anything specific before they read it. I plan on having a questionnaire of sorts at the back of the manuscript, stapled shut, that they can't look at until they've read the whole book. Then I'd like them to answer my questions about the possible trouble spots, but without having any preconceived ideas about where those spots might be.

[Cat Scratch]

I prefer not to give any specific questions or guidelines, so that I can get a more organic reaction. But it depends on where I am in the process--if I'm struggling with something that I know isn't write I may ask a trusted beta to pay special attention to that section. Chances are, however, if that part really does need work he or she will notice it anyway.

In response to something sunandshadow wrote, I try to give my beta readers as clean a copy as possible, editing-wise. If they're going to the trouble to read something and give feedback, I like to make it as easy on them as I can. Sketchy grammar can pop me out of something like nothing else, and as someone who occasionally acts as a beta reader it's difficult to ignore that sort of thing.

[UrsusMinor]

With other writers, it may be useful to specify some questions.

With normal, well-adjusted people, just give it to them. No pens, either. And double-sdie copy it and comb bind it. The more you can make it like the experience of reading any other book, the more accurate and unbiased your feedback will be.

[KTC]

I don't give any comments. I don't want to give them my expectations, which I would think might influence them.

[NightWynde]

My poor Mom is one of my beta readers. The reason I say "poor" Mom is because she'll read a bunch of different drafts of the same story. If I don't prompt her as to what I want each time, I'll get two pages worth of grammatical error comments on a second or third draft. I love her dearly, but I don't worry about the specifics of that until about draft five...or nine, depending on how well the story is going.

Early drafts I'll usually ask for her to tell me about clarity and flow. Does it make sense? Was it easy to follow, stuff like that.

My other beta reader is a writer as well, so all I have to do is tell her what stage of the game I'm at and she'll know what type of critique I'm looking for. She's the only one who gets to see my first drafts, primarily because I know she won't critique it at all. LOL

[Vincenzo]

I'm new to AW -- please forgive glaring ignorance. Where does one find people of literary bent willing to read 359 pages from a rank amateur (me)?

[CaroGirl]

I'm new to AW -- please forgive glaring ignorance. Where does one find people of literary bent willing to read 359 pages from a rank amateur (me)?
I took a writing course at my community college. I hooked up with a few of the more serious people from there and we started our own critique group. I might have just been lucky, but you could try that approach.

[ChaosTitan]

Hi Vincenzo,

You can also try the Mentors board. Folks have posted there asking for beta readers.

[TeddyG]

I don't give any comments. I don't want to give them my expectations, which I would think might influence them.

As usual Kevin says it da best.
Caro, be real careful. I have said this in other places on this board, and it is not a popular opinion...but here goes.

If you are dead set on Beta Readers...remember that many people give crits based on their own perspective. Unless they are fairly professional editors or can divorce themselves from what they want, advice and critique many times turns out to be kind of self-serving, and can work to influence you towards a path you should not take.

Beta readers need to be professional, removed, and not writers who themselves are trying to get published and are doing this as a favor to you, or a way to just read someone else's work.

I am not trying to be harsh. I am just warning against some of the pitfalls.
In all cases you should ABSOLUTELY CLEAR what you want from them. If it is looking for plot holes, or just editing, or commas in the wrong place. BE CLEAR.

and GOOD LUCK....

[Imelda]

I'm new to AW -- please forgive glaring ignorance. Where does one find people of literary bent willing to read 359 pages from a rank amateur (me)?

Personally, I use www.critters.org (http://www.critters.org)

I find that I get a variety of critique styles, and it addresses everything from several people's perspectives. If I want any specific issues addressed, I give a heads up and people comment on that, but it's important not to be too constraining, and to let people give their own opinions.

I had this one reader last time who gave me line-by-lines, complete with her reaction to what was going on. I found out what bits made her laugh, what her suspicions were about certain bits of info I dropped in. It was great, but few people do that. Another reader basically corrected all my grammar (which was annoying, because I pride myself on good grammar!) with minimal notes on the rest. Yet another read the whole thing, then did a long commentary on the piece as a whole, and what she felt needed to be strengthened.

I think that provided you have several readers, you don't need to guide them in their critiques. Let the readers' natural critting styles come through, and you'll get valuable insights.

[Vincenzo]

Thanks for the advice re beta readers everyone – appreciate it. I’m writing a novel about espionage with a nuc weapons theme. I have sufficient intel background to be confident of these aspects of the novel and have someone reading for technical accuracy re nucs. What I need now is a lit reader. Someone that can critique the plot/through line, prose, pace, character development, and just generally whether the whole read was worth the effort. I checked out www.critters. It appears to be for SF/F writers.

V

[JackieA]

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=writers+critique+groups&meta=

perhaps you may find something here? good luck

[Imelda]

I checked out www.critters (http://www.critters). It appears to be for SF/F writers.

V

Oops, sorry :D I forgot about that proviso, seeing as that's all I write. But still, for all you SFF writers ...