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JimmyD1318
05-28-2007, 04:12 AM
I sent her a welcome long before she got here lol...

Shoot! Well....rasberries!:tongue

Rolling Thunder
05-28-2007, 04:16 AM
Who is Steven King anyway?

JimmyD1318
05-28-2007, 04:19 AM
Who is Steven King anyway?

:roll:

TwentyFour
05-28-2007, 04:20 AM
Shoot! Well....rasberries!:tongue
;) I'll give you the next one!

abemorgantis
05-28-2007, 04:30 AM
Ummm....my contract says they are going to be giving me fifteen free copies of my book. So uh, yeah dude! Real publishers give you free copies of your book for you to do what you want with them. And my publisher is a real small press! I remember Uncle Jim saying he got something like thirty copies or some amount like that. So next question please...:ROFL:

Lawrence Watt-Evans says he usually gets 15 (hardcovers).

Sheryl Nantus
05-28-2007, 04:40 AM
D)These authors consist of disgruntled ex-PA authors or other writers who think PA is the worst thing around. They seem to make it their life's mission to educate any and all writers/authors of PA's "evil". They will argue and keep saying the same things time and time again to whoever might listen. They like to say that they are giving "advice", even if they advise the same thing many times over to a tuned out audience. They float from board to board slandering PA (And maybe its authors). They must have nothing better to do.

that would be all of us here on AW, then?

:D

Dancre
05-28-2007, 05:04 AM
I value and respect everyone's input :) I have learned a lot by coming to AW and I am glad to be here. You don't need to tell me anything about PA's censorship. I am well aware having been censored myself on too many occasions, not to mention being banned three times. LOL I am so glad to be banned.

I understand about the lurkers, but human nature prevails. People usually only want to hear what they want to hear no matter what words are being read.

I wrote the following awhile back that describes the classes of PA authors that might explain the grey area. But like I said earlier, I am no one special. Just some food for thought.

~There are basically for 4 classes of PA authors. I will explain.

A) The PA author who has stars in their eyes or thinks that anyone who chooses an different publisher is crazy. They say repeatedly that PA is the gift that keeps on giving and will make enemies of anyone who disagrees.

B)There are the PA authors who are pleased that their book was published and someone gave them a chance. They are proud to share the book with who they can and do not worry so much about the financial aspects of the situation. They are thankful for what they have. They will re-submit to PA in hopes of a second book through them.

C)These authors are much like category B, but may realize that their books are harder to get in bookstores and are encountered by some who attach the POD stigma to their book. Yet, they are proud of their book and will make the best of any situation. These authors hope for a better financial situation than what they may have. These authors will probably not re-submit a manuscript to PA, but are still thankful for the opportunity PA gave them.

D)These authors consist of disgruntled ex-PA authors or other writers who think PA is the worst thing around. They seem to make it their life's mission to educate any and all writers/authors of PA's "evil". They will argue and keep saying the same things time and time again to whoever might listen. They like to say that they are giving "advice", even if they advise the same thing many times over to a tuned out audience. They float from board to board slandering PA (And maybe its authors). They must have nothing better to do.


I think this will enlighten you all as to how any PA author is ranked. All PA authors fit into one category above.~



I mean all this in the kindest spirit. I do not want any troubles with anyone here, I really don't. http://s4.images.proboards.com/smiley.gif


Rose, maybe you can explain something to me. Why is PA so cultish with their members? I felt so sorry for Jennifer when she asked for help. She was called a whiner, a complainer, and she had better shut up and serve the master. Someone even had the gull to say, you have no faith in God. What's up with that??

kim

Rolling Thunder
05-28-2007, 05:14 AM
That's a bit unfair, Kim. Rose was banned from the PAMB, twice, I believe, for speaking her mind.

Dancre
05-28-2007, 05:24 AM
That's a bit unfair, Kim. Rose was banned from the PAMB, twice, I believe, for speaking her mind.

I think you misunderstand me. I'm asking Rose why is PA so cultish towards their writers? I"m not attacking Rose, just asking why are the PA members cultish in their responses to someone who starts to ask questions about PA, like Jennifer or even Rose. I figured Rose was a victim so maybe she can give me some insight. It seems very frightening to me that the PA members attack anyone who questions PA to the point that it seems to be a cult. It seems to me that PA sees itself as the Master of all their writers. Ask a question about PA, and the PA members hang the complaining writer. Doesn't that seem, well, creepy? I mean, look at Jennifer. She asks questions and the other writers at the PA board call her a whiner, complainer, etc. Follow the Master and stop complaining. Creeeepppyyy.

In other words, Jennifer on the PA board complains about PA's practices. The other PA writers say, worship the PA Master and stop complaining or you'll suffer. = cult. creeepy.
kim

JimmyD1318
05-28-2007, 05:24 AM
That's a bit unfair, Kim. Rose was banned from the PAMB, twice, I believe, for speaking her mind.

That's right. Rose is really cool. What goes on at the PAMB has happened to her also. Anyone that dosen't go along with PA's party line is made fun of then banned. That's just the way it is over there.

Hummertime
05-28-2007, 05:27 AM
Mighty frustrating reading the garbage that is taken as gospel over at the PAMB.
Mighty frustrating!

What is even more frustrating is that I've read Redfeather's book. It is quite well written and very compelling from the standpoint of the audience to which he appeals. He probably could have sold it to a small-to-mid-sized Christian publisher.

JimmyD1318
05-28-2007, 05:28 AM
I think you misunderstand me. I'm asking Rose why is PA so cultish towards their writers? I"m not attacking Rose, just asking why are the PA members cultish in their responses to someone who starts to ask questions about PA, like Jennifer. I figured Rose was a victim so maybe she can give me some insight. It seems very frightening to me that the PA members attack anyone who questions PA.

kim

I guess it's because they feel like you're also attacking them. After all PA gave them the 'chance their book deserved.' So anything that attacks or questions the way things are is taken as a attack on them and their books. At least that's how I see it. Anyone else have any ideas?

Hummertime
05-28-2007, 05:32 AM
Who is Steven King anyway?

He's a Richard Bachman wannabe.

abemorgantis
05-28-2007, 05:37 AM
D)These authors consist of disgruntled ex-PA authors or other writers who think PA is the worst thing around. They seem to make it their life's mission to educate any and all writers/authors of PA's "evil". They will argue and keep saying the same things time and time again to whoever might listen. They like to say that they are giving "advice", even if they advise the same thing many times over to a tuned out audience. They float from board to board slandering PA (And maybe its authors). They must have nothing better to do.

You are onto us.

Dancre
05-28-2007, 05:43 AM
I guess it's because they feel like you're also attacking them. After all PA gave them the 'chance their book deserved.' So anything that attacks or questions the way things are is taken as a attack on them and their books. At least that's how I see it. Anyone else have any ideas?

But doesn't that seem almost Cultish? It reminds me of the cults in the 70's. You never put down the diety, but worship him/her and NEVER question the Master.

kim

Afinerosesheis
05-28-2007, 05:43 AM
I am going to step out. Hubby and I are going on a date. Anyone can send a PM if they wish. There is one thread where an author named Roxanneville (SP) questioned some things and I called PA publicly on their tone. It was in the author's lounge. I can't find it now.


I don't agree with the way they handle their authors for asking questions, legit ones at that. Why?? I'm sorry, I can't answer that one.

Southern added another good idea to my post. Thanks!

Southern and Jimmy...thanks so much :) I love you both :D

CatSlave
05-28-2007, 05:49 AM
What is even more frustrating is that I've read Redfeather's book. It is quite well written and very compelling from the standpoint of the audience to which he appeals. He probably could have sold it to a small-to-mid-sized Christian publisher.
It's a shame because not all the books PA prints are unreadable. There are some fine books lost to the reading public because there is no marketing, no bookstore exposure and no reviews. The new authors just don't realize the hammerlock PA has on their books. It's pounded into them to trust in God, thank God for PA (that one infuriates me), buy their own overpriced books (whether or not they can afford to), attempt to sell them at Jiffy Lube, the hairdresser, the gas station pumps and anyplace else they can think of, waste their time with useless arts-and-crafts "marketing" gimmicks, and so on ad nauseam. And if their books don't sell, it's THEIR fault for not marketing correctly. Instead of writing, they're chasing their own tails.
What a crock!
What a waste!

Afinerosesheis
05-28-2007, 05:51 AM
As far as Jennifer, the one who is being attacked, my thoughts are this:

She is obviously a bright and intelligent woman. Perhaps she will see the light, see how others are treating her. If PA bans her, she'll see that too. Those who take the abuse will never learn, the others will come into on their own when the time is right. Yes, maybe they have lost the book for seven years, and get that royalty check, but that doesn't mean that they can't go forward from there. Write better material, submit to better pubs. Being a PA author does not have to be the end of the road. It just takes people with brass to realize such.

I think Jennifer will be just fine.

Dancre
05-28-2007, 05:56 AM
As far as Jennifer, the one who is being attacked, my thoughts are this:

She is obviously a bright and intelligent woman. Perhaps she will see the light, see how others are treating her. If PA bans her, she'll see that too. Those who take the abuse will never learn, the others will come into on their own when the time is right. Yes, maybe they have lost the book for seven years, and get that royalty check, but that doesn't mean that they can't go forward from there. Write better material, submit to better pubs. Being a PA author does not have to be the end of the road. It just takes people with brass to realize such.

I think Jennifer will be just fine.

Yeah, you're right. It's just a shame that if anyone looks behind the curtain and realizes PA isn't the Great and Mighty OZ, they're kicked out to the curb. But maybe that's a good thing. Have fun on your date. And be home by 10pm. hehe.

kim

TwentyFour
05-28-2007, 05:58 AM
I think Jennifer has had a rough week...god speed Jen and maybe you will find a way?

Rolling Thunder
05-28-2007, 06:01 AM
Kewl. It appears we're all on the same page then, all just looking for answers to questions.

CatSlave
05-28-2007, 06:01 AM
But doesn't that seem almost Cultish? It reminds me of the cults in the 70's. You never put down the diety, but worship him/her and NEVER question the Master.

kim
Absolutely they're cultish. That's what the phrase "drank the Kool-Aide" means when it comes up in the chats. But Rose can't answer for PA, since she is a victim of their insidious programming. The die-hard PAvidians aren't going to change their tune, I'm afraid. But that doesn't make everyone at the PAMB a PAvidian. Many of them are just naive, and we can only hope that the ones who question the "wisdom of their Masters" will somehow find their way to the light. We already have a number of ex-PAers here. Some of them prefer to remain anonymous.

Dancre
05-28-2007, 06:09 AM
Kewl. It appears we're all on the same page then, all just looking for answers to questions.

You mean lots of head banging, dear God what are you thinking, are you crazy questions. ARG!!


Absolutely they're cultish. That's what the phrase "drank the Kool-Aide" means when it comes up in the chats. But Rose can't answer for PA, since she is a victim of their insidious programming. The die-hard PAvidians aren't going to change their tune, I'm afraid. But that doesn't make everyone at the PAMB a PAvidian. Many of them are just naive, and we can only hope that the ones who question the "wisdom of their Masters" will somehow find their way to the light. We already have a number of ex-PAers here. Some of them prefer to remain anonymous.


True.

Hummertime
05-28-2007, 06:40 AM
I am going to step out. Hubby and I are going on a date. Anyone can send a PM if they wish. There is one thread where an author named Roxanneville (SP) questioned some things and I called PA publicly on their tone. It was in the author's lounge. I can't find it now.

It was Roxanne Sackville. She's a local author. The post concerned PA not sending publicity mailings to the list she provided because many of the addresses were Canadian.

I wonder if this foreshadows PA pulling out of the Canadian market?

Rolling Thunder
05-28-2007, 06:50 AM
The thread Rose mentioned is here:

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?p=235634&highlight=#235634

CatSlave
05-28-2007, 07:05 AM
Just a thought--I suspect the PAMB Mind Police (Miranda and Larry) are taking a holiday weekend, hence the JR threads remain on their board. So come Tuesday morning, either they will disappear or Infocenter will have a nasty reply blaming her for not reading her contract, or that marketing efforts are at the discretion of PA, or that she should refer to the marketing thread for ideas, or that they've done everything for her FOR FREE and she has a lot of nerve to expect more, or all of the above.

It will probably sound something like this:

Blah blah blah your tone is totally inappropriate blah blah blah we will expect your apology blah blah blah if you can't understand how to read a contract then get someone to explain it to you blah blah blah your books are available blah blah blah if you have any reason for your request, state it coherently blah blah blah you are mistaken blah blah blah 20,000 happy authors blah blah blah what you've said it simply not true blah blah blah your correspondence was not received blah blah blah all marketing and promotion is at our election and discretion blah blah blah your misconceptions are so easy to contradict blah blah blah you are wasting your time and our time blah blah blah.

CatSlave
05-28-2007, 07:10 AM
Kewl. It appears we're all on the same page then, all just looking for answers to questions.
You betcha! :Hug2:

Dancre
05-28-2007, 07:12 AM
If your message did not come through, that is not our fault, and does not warrant your accusatory tone. Contrary to what you say, we elected, as per contract, not to send to your foreign addresses. Your message itself shows that. Your two U.S. addresses are being sent to. We did nothing wrong, at all, and will expect your apology.


:Jaw:


Ok, someone please correct me if I'm wrong. If you have a service and someone pays you to use that service, shouldn't you try to at least satisfy the client??? Does PA not realize the writers are CLIENTS???? I work for an accounting firm and if I EVER talked to a client like that, I'd be out the door. Geesh. I think this person needs to hear a speech from my boss on how to treat a client. Talk about lousy customer service. PA will eventually implode with people like this on their staff.

kim

ResearchGuy
05-28-2007, 07:13 AM
And 'publish you for free' is a term that should be struck from the English language.
That phrase, its cousin "What did you pay to be published?", and the whole concept that lies behind those phrases reflect widespread ignorance of the fundamental fact of legitimate commercial publishing: publishers pay authors, not the other way around. Modes of payment vary, and of course amounts vary widely, but publishers pay authors.

Does anyone ask a plumber, "How much did you pay to install new fixtures in the Joneses' house?" Of course not! Does anyone ask an artist, "How much did you pay [fill in name of magazine] to use your artwork on its cover?" Of course not! But this bizarre notion that writers pay to have their work published is widespread.

Why? Seriously! Does anyone have any idea why?

(Ok, fine, I write a column for a professional journal, and all I was paid when it was in the print version was two copies of each issue in which it appeared, and all I am paid when it is in the Web edition is . . . well . . . nothing. But they do not ask me to send along a check with my column!)

--Ken

Dancre
05-28-2007, 07:20 AM
Just a thought--I suspect the PAMB Mind Police (Miranda and Larry) are taking a holiday weekend, hence the JR threads remain on their board. So come Tuesday morning, either they will disappear or Infocenter will have a nasty reply blaming her for not reading her contract, or that marketing efforts are at the discretion of PA, or that she should refer to the marketing thread for ideas, or that they've done everything for her FOR FREE and she has a lot of nerve to expect more, or all of the above.

It will probably sound something like this:

Blah blah blah your tone is totally inappropriate blah blah blah we will expect your apology blah blah blah if you can't understand how to read a contract then get someone to explain it to you blah blah blah your books are available blah blah blah if you have any reason for your request, state it coherently blah blah blah you are mistaken blah blah blah 20,000 happy authors blah blah blah what you've said it simply not true blah blah blah your correspondence was not received blah blah blah all marketing and promotion is at our election and discretion blah blah blah your misconceptions are so easy to contradict blah blah blah you are wasting your time and our time blah blah blah.

I think Miranda and Larry should be fired. Either that or have them come work with me and learn the meaning of great customer service. Geesh!!!

kim

ResearchGuy
05-28-2007, 07:20 AM
. . . shouldn't you try to at least satisfy the client??? Does PA not realize the writers are CLIENTS???? . . .
PA sees itself (or at least markets itself) as doing a favor for the authors. The authors fall for that and grovel until and unless the scales fall from their eyes.

--Ken

Hummertime
05-28-2007, 07:23 AM
Just a thought--I suspect the PAMB Mind Police (Miranda and Larry) are taking a holiday weekend, hence the JR threads remain on their board.

Or maybe they just don't care anymore. After all, there's no reason for us to suspect that PublishAmerica isn't making money.

Dancre
05-28-2007, 07:27 AM
PA sees itself (or at least markets itself) as doing a favor for the authors. The authors fall for that and grovel until and unless the scales fall from their eyes.

--Ken


LOL!! What a great business plan. HEy everybody, we're doing people a favor!! They owe us!! Yeap, I'll tell that to my boss come Tuesday morning. She'll get a tickle out of that one!! THe accounting firm is doing everyone a favor and the clients owe us when we work 65 hours a week during tax season just to get their tax papers to the IRS. Yeap, works for me.

kim

DaveKuzminski
05-28-2007, 07:38 AM
And when all else fails, they can demand, "Kneel down to Zod." ;)

Marian Perera
05-28-2007, 07:55 AM
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21303

Also get on every Forum that you can and pitch your book, you are the one that knows your book best, so don't rely on others to do your job.

Joining forums for the sole purpose of getting people to buy one's book might be construed as spamming. Even if she pitched it on websites where she was already a member, how would that overcome the price tag and the other problems (such as people like me who want to read books before we buy them)?

CatSlave
05-28-2007, 08:11 AM
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21303

Joining forums for the sole purpose of getting people to buy one's book might be construed as spamming. Even if she pitched it on websites where she was already a member, how would that overcome the price tag and the other problems (such as people like me who want to read books before we buy them)?
When I want to buy a book I go to a bookstore where I can browse and read. I read book reviews for recommendations. I do not go cruising on websites in hopes of finding something worthwhile to read and when I want a book I want it now, not six weeks from now, plus shipping and handling.
Radical concept, I know.

James D. Macdonald
05-28-2007, 08:48 AM
~There are basically for 4 classes of PA authors.

I have my own four classes of PA author. I first posted this (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5306&postcount=3813) around three years ago.


1) The author who wants a few copies of his book typeset and bound. These can be for gifts -- mom's poetry. Or because it's more convenient than a stack of manuscript pages -- granddad's memoires. Or people who are just looking to sell books face-to-face and hand-to-hand -- the poet who wants to sell copies after his readings; the inspirational speaker who wants to sell copies from the back of the hall after her lecture -- and wants to have a steady supply without having to fill the garage with cartons of books. For these people, PA probably isn't a bad choice.

2) The person who wants to be an author as a Fantasy Role-Playing Game. They get an advance! They can get their picture in the paper! They can arrange a signing, and sit for an hour at a table in a bookstore! They're as much authors as Civil War recreationists are soldiers. But as hobbies go it's cheaper than photography and safer than sky diving, and only annoys the random bookstore owner. Probably not a bad deal for them, either.

3) The people who think that this was real publishing; they tried, it didn't work. Sigh. Too bad. These are the ones who honestly believe that PA is genuine publishing; they believe that most authors don't get bookstore distribution, they believe that authors are expected to do all the promotion themselves, they believe that editors only check for misspellings. They honestly believe that this is what publishing is like (perhaps with exceptions for celebrities) from Random House right the way down.

They're disappointed, but they aren't anti-PA; they're quiet in their disappointment. Perhaps they wrote a dandy book. Perhaps their current book wasn't too great (even if PA told them that it was publishable and selected and all) but their next one might have been, if they'd kept on writing. Even if they do keep on writing, they might not submit the next one, because who needs the hassle? Maybe they wrote to ask, and got one of those deliberately nasty "don't take that tone with us" blow-off letters.

For these people, PublishAmerica is a bad choice. They've been harmed, but we're not going to hear from them.

4) The fourth group are the ones who believed that PublishAmerica was a real publisher. They expected PA to act like a publisher. When they discover that PublishAmerica is to publishing what a mud pie is to an apple pie -- they get perturbed. These are the ones who are vocal. They wanted readers. They wanted a career. And they got zilch. For these people too, PublishAmerica was a bad idea. They're the ones who are hollering "Scam!" and you know something? They have a point.

abemorgantis
05-28-2007, 05:35 PM
When I want to buy a book I go to a bookstore where I can browse and read. I read book reviews for recommendations. I do not go cruising on websites in hopes of finding something worthwhile to read and when I want a book I want it now, not six weeks from now, plus shipping and handling.
Radical concept, I know.

I do the same with certain exceptions: such as books by Steven Brust, who always produces good stuff and Gene Wolfe, who is The Master.

James D. Macdonald
05-28-2007, 05:47 PM
I think Miranda and Larry should be fired.

They can't be fired. They run the joint.

Oh -- and I believe that Miranda herself is doing some Guestbook Sliming over here (http://www.freewebs.com/truthaboutpa/guestbook.htm). Check out the entries from 07 May 07.

abemorgantis
05-28-2007, 05:55 PM
Wow, that post is astonishing. Its almost as if she believes her own crap.

VGrossack
05-28-2007, 06:14 PM
That post has a number of grammatical errors. "Shelf" is a noun; "shelve" is a verb. It also has factual errors. Advances are not returnable.

Besides, I would much rather have $3000 than $1, any day...

Saundra Julian
05-28-2007, 06:40 PM
Glad I haven't had breakfast yet...that would turn anyone's stomach!

James D. Macdonald
05-28-2007, 06:49 PM
Yeah, that struck me too. The advance that the slimer is disparaging is 3,000 times better than PA's advance.

Do folks really believe that St. Augustine hopped in his car with a case of books to get every Barnes & Noble from sea to shining sea to shelve The City of God? He isn't in the top 100 authors -- but his books sure enough are shelved.

Or how about the other 120,000 authors who are shelved in your average big-box store -- did they all go on roadtrips?

When Miranda said that "royalties are low," what did she mean? Let's see -- 10% of cover price on 20,000 sold, vs. 8% of net price on 20 sold. Which royalties did you say were low?

The line about "You are afraid that your books will have a little bit of competition" is what convinces me it's Miranda (that, plus the poor spelling skills -- we're talking about the lady who brought us the zobmie). PublishAmerica isn't any kind of competition. Individual midlist authors routinely sell more than all PA authors combined sell through all bookstores combined in a given year. Best-sellers frequently sell more copies of a single title than all of PA has sold to all markets combined (including directly to their own authors and those authors' attics) in PA's entire history.

I can't speak for that site, or for anyone else, but for me what motivates me is the thought of good books being lost, and good authors ignored, by being buried in the PA wasteland.

That's why I want authors to seek legitimate publication. So that their books can have the chance they deserve.

Christine N.
05-28-2007, 06:54 PM
Wow, she really believes her own misinformation?

abemorgantis
05-28-2007, 07:12 PM
Wow, she really believes her own misinformation?

Its either that or once a convicted felon, always a convicted felon; she will ride this great new fraud until the end, it's unethical but hard to prove any laws were broken. Perfect for a fraud.

Sassenach
05-28-2007, 07:37 PM
Isn't Redfeather's book about "curing" homosexuality?

Christine N.
05-28-2007, 07:38 PM
Not illegal, just dishonest and morally unsound.

We've been discussing PA on a list I'm on, and someone there put it very well, PA is the outfit that looks like a traditional publisher, but behaves like a vanity press. The facade can be deceiving, if you don't know what you're looking for.

James D. Macdonald
05-28-2007, 07:45 PM
Isn't Redfeather's book about "curing" homosexuality?

It is, but that's not unusual in small-to-midsized "Christian" publishing.

His big problem is believing what Mike Warnke told him.

spike
05-28-2007, 07:51 PM
PAMB is getting nasty with the woman who realized that PA is no better than a vanity press. http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21306&sid=3cb2d191715761e1ca440e1d438883e8

But what is interesting is that in the insults, a bit of truth shows.

Time to wake up ******. How many mainstream publishers did you submit to. You probably do not have an agent, your book was more than likely not professionally edited so that leaves only a couple of avenues to be published. My opinion you picked the best option available.


Besides being terribly rude, this guy has just implied that PA is not in the same league as mainstream publishers. I wonder if he realized that.

Dancre
05-28-2007, 08:03 PM
They can't be fired. They run the joint.

Oh -- and I believe that Miranda herself is doing some Guestbook Sliming over here (http://www.freewebs.com/truthaboutpa/guestbook.htm). Check out the entries from 07 May 07.

What??? Wait a minute. You're telling me these people who know nothing about good customer service or how to run a publishing company, let alone a regular company, are in CHARGE??? Oh, now that takes the cake!! They need to come work with me. Oh, yes. My boss will put them on the right path. I seriously thought someone else was in charge and wasn't keeping track of their employees.

I'm flabbergasted!! For the first time in my life I'm speechless!!! Do they not realize the reputation they are building?? I just don't what to say!!

kim

Dancre
05-28-2007, 08:21 PM
They can't be fired. They run the joint.

Oh -- and I believe that Miranda herself is doing some Guestbook Sliming over here (http://www.freewebs.com/truthaboutpa/guestbook.htm). Check out the entries from 07 May 07.


:ROFL:

Ok, first of all, my good friend, Ginny Smith, is a newbie writer. She published her first book, Just As I Am, last year. She wrote to me a few months ago and told me she's already signed for 6th book and is wondering where she'll find the time to write all these books. (I want that problem, hehe.) Her second book is coming out sometime this year or the next. So how in the world can that poster say Publishers won't take new writers??? They won't take garbage, that's for sure, but they will take something that is well-written with a good plot and interesting characters. (I learned that from you, Uncle Jim. :) ) And the publisher will take back the advancement??? Oh, now that's just funny. What publisher does that??? LOL!!! And you have to be on a one hundred book list??? What planet does she live on??? LOL!!! And we're scared of the competion? :roll: Yeah, that's it, we're jealous of PA's success. Oh dear God, I laugh so hard, my stomach hurts. If one thing, PA sure is entertaining.

kim

abemorgantis
05-28-2007, 08:33 PM
What??? Wait a minute. You're telling me these people who know nothing about good customer service or how to run a publishing company, let alone a regular company, are in CHARGE??? Oh, now that takes the cake!! They need to come work with me. Oh, yes. My boss will put them on the right path. I seriously thought someone else was in charge and wasn't keeping track of their employees.


Larry and Willem own PA, I'm not sure if Miranda is a partner or not but she runs the day to day operations and they're happy with her, I guess.

Dancre
05-28-2007, 08:45 PM
Larry and Willem own PA, I'm not sure if Miranda is a partner or not but she runs the day to day operations and they're happy with her, I guess.

:e2thud:

Unbelievable. <Shakes head.>

Tina
05-28-2007, 09:04 PM
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21303

Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 1:05 pm Post subject: This company is no different from my last one!

I went through authorhouse the first time and this company is not much different. I heard so many good things about this company before I went through them...

Where? The PAMB? Does no one look beyond that PA website?

Speaking of which, I don't think the homepage info has been changed in eons (though I haven't looked at it today, it will probably be the same as last week...last month...even last year, I think. At least it appears that way).

Anne Lyle
05-28-2007, 09:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rllgthunder http://absolutewrite.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1362634#post1362634)
Who is Steven King anyway?


He's a Richard Bachman wannabe.

:roll:

CatSlave
05-28-2007, 09:11 PM
They can't be fired. They run the joint.

Oh -- and I believe that Miranda herself is doing some Guestbook Sliming over here (http://www.freewebs.com/truthaboutpa/guestbook.htm). Check out the entries from 07 May 07.
I have suspicions that the poster "Tom" may also be a ringer. His laundry list of PA-manufactured "facts" sounds scripted, like all their cut-and-paste responses to authors. Could he really be Tim, who accepted Hummertime's ethereal poetry collection? Curious, isn't it?

JimmyD1318
05-28-2007, 09:13 PM
Where? The PAMB? Does no one look beyond that PA website?

Speaking of which, I don't think the homepage info has been changed in eons (though I haven't looked at it today, it will probably be the same as last week...last month...even last year, I think. At least it appears that way).

You're right, no change what so ever. I tried to go to the Online Bookstore but couldn't pull anything up. Werid!

CatSlave
05-28-2007, 09:18 PM
Where? The PAMB? Does no one look beyond that PA website?

Speaking of which, I don't think the homepage info has been changed in eons (though I haven't looked at it today, it will probably be the same as last week...last month...even last year, I think. At least it appears that way).
Yeah, it's still as crappy as always. That alone should give one a clue as to the quality of work that can be expected from them. You would think they had someone "onboard" with enough talent to design a website better than the average eighth-grader's. But then again, they haven't been able to come up with a marketing phrase more original than "resonate with an audience" and "fit like a glove" so I guess an attractive website is totally out of the question.

Anne Lyle
05-28-2007, 09:34 PM
You're right, no change what so ever. I tried to go to the Online Bookstore but couldn't pull anything up. Werid!

Looks like their store software is broken. Serves them right for using ASP and M$ IIS...

Sometimes I wonder if the "you have to return your advance" meme has flourished in part because it's true in the music business:

ADVANCES
How much (living) money will you get that is recoupable? What about other advances, such as videos, and touring? Remember, you will have to pay back that amount to the label.

RECORDING COSTS
How much (recoupable) recording money will you get? Donít overdo it! Remember, you will have to pay it back from your royalty rate as applied to actual sales.

(Advice from Music Biz Academy)

My ex, who knew about the music business but nothing about publishing, was astounded when I told him that authors don't have to give a penny of their advance back to the publisher if the book flops!

Afinerosesheis
05-28-2007, 09:42 PM
Thanks again for allowing me to voice my thoughts on this thread, bad rep or no. I think everyone here has valid points with the best of intentions. Whether it is worth people's time or not is not for me to say. Being a PA author has its downside, but the greatest thing that comes from it for me is the people I have met.

Had I not signed with PA I would've never met some of the greatest people whom I am proud to call friends. I have learned much on this journey, but learned much more from people from around the globe. You cannot compare that with any royalty check or banning from a board that means nothing. I am a much better person for having them in my life and thankful that they put up with me. :)

So I'm moving forward with a positive note, and may I be lucky enough for some here to one day consider me a friend.

Have a great day! :)

BenPanced
05-28-2007, 10:04 PM
Jeez. I'm not sure if I can read any more of those posts on PAMB. The browbeating and belittling of "their own" is getting pretty scary.

Hummertime
05-28-2007, 10:22 PM
Isn't Redfeather's book about "curing" homosexuality?

Yes, but it's written as an insider, and it is written with much more pastoral sensitivity than many other things written by protestant fundamentalists on this topic. His main point is along the lines of "instead of banging us over the head with the Bible, take time to get to know us, become our friend, then voice your concerns out of a genuine Christian love."

Not likely to go over well with fundamentalists, but it's a perfect fit for the much-larger evangelical protestant market. One of the mid-sized protestant publishers likely would have picked it up had he shopped it around.

CatSlave
05-28-2007, 10:27 PM
Thanks again for allowing me to voice my thoughts on this thread, bad rep or no. I think everyone here has valid points with the best of intentions. Whether it is worth people's time or not is not for me to say. Being a PA author has its downside, but the greatest thing that comes from it for me is the people I have met.

Had I not signed with PA I would've never met some of the greatest people whom I am proud to call friends. I have learned much on this journey, but learned much more from people from around the globe. You cannot compare that with any royalty check or banning from a board that means nothing. I am a much better person for having them in my life and thankful that they put up with me. :)

So I'm moving forward with a positive note, and may I be lucky enough for some here to one day consider me a friend.

Have a great day! :)
I'm glad to see you're making the best of it and moving on to better things. It sounds like there are a lot of nice people over at the PAMB, and although we criticise the company itself and the minority of authors who spread the misinformation and preach that PA is the best thing since sliced bread, it by no means includes the many, many authors who just wanted to see their book in print and didn't know a better way to do it. They are not part of the ongoing battles with PA, just victims of the system. I hope you make as many friends here as you did there. A good friend is a priceless gift.

And remember, your friends are welcome here too.

Sassenach
05-28-2007, 10:35 PM
Yes, but it's written as an insider, and it is written with much more pastoral sensitivity than many other things written by protestant fundamentalists on this topic. His main point is along the lines of "instead of banging us over the head with the Bible, take time to get to know us, become our friend, then voice your concerns out of a genuine Christian love."

Not likely to go over well with fundamentalists, but it's a perfect fit for the much-larger evangelical protestant market. One of the mid-sized protestant publishers likely would have picked it up had he shopped it around.

Gotta love that genuine Christian love. I certainly appreciate it when I'm lovingly told I'm going to hell since I haven't been born again.

Dancre
05-28-2007, 10:40 PM
I'd be interested in seeing PA's financial pages. I have a feeling they are losing money due to their bad reputation and bad products. That might explain why they attack those who protest against them. I have a feeling that PA may go into bankrupcy soon if they don't change their tune.

kim

Tina
05-28-2007, 10:42 PM
It was Roxanne Sackville. She's a local author. The post concerned PA not sending publicity mailings to the list she provided because many of the addresses were Canadian.

I wonder if this foreshadows PA pulling out of the Canadian market?

Ah, we can dream...but maybe...

Rolling Thunder
05-28-2007, 11:00 PM
Thanks again for allowing me to voice my thoughts on this thread, bad rep or no. I think everyone here has valid points with the best of intentions. Whether it is worth people's time or not is not for me to say. Being a PA author has its downside, but the greatest thing that comes from it for me is the people I have met.

Had I not signed with PA I would've never met some of the greatest people whom I am proud to call friends. I have learned much on this journey, but learned much more from people from around the globe. You cannot compare that with any royalty check or banning from a board that means nothing. I am a much better person for having them in my life and thankful that they put up with me. :)

So I'm moving forward with a positive note, and may I be lucky enough for some here to one day consider me a friend.

Have a great day! :)

You're making friends here, Rose. Trust me. :)

Arkie
05-28-2007, 11:10 PM
PAMB is getting nasty with the woman who realized that PA is no better than a vanity press. http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21306&sid=3cb2d191715761e1ca440e1d438883e8

But what is interesting is that in the insults, a bit of truth shows.



Besides being terribly rude, this guy has just implied that PA is not in the same league as mainstream publishers. I wonder if he realized that.


The lady in question is no novice. She's been around the block a time or two. It appears she has paid Authorhouse to publish a small book in 2002 and another in 2003. She knows how to make a web page and how to place an avatar on the message board. Newbies don't know how to do that.

I suspect she has stung them. The excerpt from her coming PA novel reads like a sting.

Sassenach
05-28-2007, 11:38 PM
The lady in question is no novice. She's been around the block a time or two. It appears she has paid Authorhouse to publish a small book in 2002 and another in 2003. She knows how to make a web page and how to place an avatar on the message board. Newbies don't know how to do that.

I suspect she has stung them. The excerpt from her coming PA novel reads like a sting.

The excerpt reads like an unedited first draft.

Hummertime
05-28-2007, 11:57 PM
Gotta love that genuine Christian love. I certainly appreciate it when I'm lovingly told I'm going to hell since I haven't been born again.

LOL!

Being a former fundamentalist/evangelical I get it all the time as well.

Regardless, whether or not one agrees with the message of his book, there's a market for it. And Redfeather would have better reached that market by going through a commercial Christian publisher.

Sheryl Nantus
05-29-2007, 12:33 AM
You don't need to tell me anything about PA's censorship. I am well aware having been censored myself on too many occasions, not to mention being banned three times. LOL I am so glad to be banned.

aren't you one of the "Morale Police" on Alien Enigma's board?

*chuckles*

I'd be glad for the rest of the peeps on his board to come and visit, but I fear we're not as fast on the ban/delete button as some would like us to be...

as far as Redfeather's book goes - it'd probably have been picked up by a legitimate publisher and have a decent success rate if he hadn't been sucked into the PA cesspool. What's annoying is his insistence that "books aren't bought in bookstores" mantra that he keeps repeating - last time I checked I bought most of MY books in a bookstore.

I saw that the woman with the autistic husband is eagerly awaiting her August royalty check to see what she's sold online - since she's worn out her welcome locally. It's going to be a sad awakening for her when that one arrives. Yet another PA victim hitting the reality wall hard.

:(

Afinerosesheis
05-29-2007, 12:49 AM
Who is Alien Enigma? And then I'll let you know.

**chuckles too** ;)

Sheryl Nantus
05-29-2007, 01:15 AM
Who is Alien Enigma? And then I'll let you know.

**chuckles too** ;)

Jeffery Miller's "Author Society" - I believe that's what he's calling it. IIRC there's a prohibition on mentioning anything negative about PA and posts are deleted if you dare criticize PA. Kind of a psuedo PAMB, in other words.

Jeff's tag here is "Alien Enigma" - sorry for not making that clearer.

Afinerosesheis
05-29-2007, 01:17 AM
Yes, I'm a mod there. I didn't know who the alien was. Thanks~

As far as I'm concerened people may speak about PA, but when it becomes preaching the same tirade over and over to PA authors there, that is when it becomes a problem. The authors there are smart enough to know what is what or what is not without being told the same thing time and time again.

Sheryl Nantus
05-29-2007, 01:18 AM
I'd be interested in seeing PA's financial pages. I have a feeling they are losing money due to their bad reputation and bad products. That might explain why they attack those who protest against them. I have a feeling that PA may go into bankrupcy soon if they don't change their tune.

kim

I don't know if they're actually losing money - all they need to do is have another "sale" and offer their victims more books, and most max out their credit cards to do so.

thanks, of course, to the PAMB's continuing diatribe that you *must* purchase your own books for everything - after all, WHAT publisher GIVES books to their authors???? WHAT bookstore ORDERS from the publisher?

*rolls eyes*

Tina
05-29-2007, 01:18 AM
That phrase, its cousin "What did you pay to be published?", and the whole concept that lies behind those phrases reflect widespread ignorance of the fundamental fact of legitimate commercial publishing: publishers pay authors, not the other way around. Modes of payment vary, and of course amounts vary widely, but publishers pay authors.

Does anyone ask a plumber, "How much did you pay to install new fixtures in the Joneses' house?" Of course not! Does anyone ask an artist, "How much did you pay [fill in name of magazine] to use your artwork on its cover?" Of course not! But this bizarre notion that writers pay to have their work published is widespread.

Why? Seriously! Does anyone have any idea why?

(Ok, fine, I write a column for a professional journal, and all I was paid when it was in the print version was two copies of each issue in which it appeared, and all I am paid when it is in the Web edition is . . . well . . . nothing. But they do not ask me to send along a check with my column!)

--Ken

Exactly. Somewhere along the line aspiring writers (or at least some of them) went from the idea of selling a book to a publisher to thinking a publisher is good if they don't charge you.

Totally, utterly muddled.

abemorgantis
05-29-2007, 01:38 AM
Ah, Alien Enigma. He bashes us on the PAMB then comes here to whine when someone slimes his guestbook.

Hummertime
05-29-2007, 02:23 AM
Who is Alien Enigma?

The second coming of Shemp.

Jordygirl
05-29-2007, 04:46 AM
Not sure if anyone has read this (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19789)thread yet, but boy did some of these people inadvertantly hit the nail on the head!


There are a lot of people out there who prey on writers.



It's sad that we have to keep our eyes wide open in any business affairs. http://bb.publishamerica.com/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif


It's really sad to see.

triceretops
05-29-2007, 05:10 AM
PA Quote:

"I have to join your club. I had the same experience with an agent that made a lot of promises. Finally I did a search on the internet and found out that she was a crook. And then whenever I had an agent respond to my query letter with promises, I did an internet search and found out that they were crooks too. That's how I found PA."

Well, substitute a comma for a period, and there you have it!

:Shrug: :Huh: :eek:

Tri

abemorgantis
05-29-2007, 05:47 AM
ALWAYS be aware of big fees. I refuse to pay a fee to an agent to read a simple cover letter and synopsis. A reputable agent will not charge a fee up front. And, we still have the responsibility of promoting our own work to an extent. So, it's a catch either way you look at it. The writing is the fun part. But, the work comes after it's published.

Okay so you researched enough to avoid scam agents but not scam publishers. There is a disconnect there.

But, the work comes after it's published

Only in PA land. My Publisher does all the work for after I submit my book.

Sean D. Schaffer
05-29-2007, 06:43 AM
Yes, I'm a mod there. I didn't know who the alien was. Thanks~

As far as I'm concerened people may speak about PA, but when it becomes preaching the same tirade over and over to PA authors there, that is when it becomes a problem. The authors there are smart enough to know what is what or what is not without being told the same thing time and time again.


There was a similar post at The Corner Bar some time ago, by the admin. She didn't much care for the holier-than-thou-art attitudes some people have a tendency to have when it comes to PublishAmerica. This, in a way, ties in with Sassenach's post not long ago here, about 'that Christian love', I believe is what she called it. Regardless of what a person has done, whether it's a religious decision or a decision about a publisher, a lot of people are highly offended by being preached at.

I think what really separates the good from the bad in this case, is the talking about PA versus talking about PA authors, respectively. Of course, the good is giving information about PA itself. The bad is calling PA authors idiots and blacklisting them -- like one small press seems to have done; I haven't heard any new developments in that case -- for having made a mistake in the publisher they've chosen.

Jersey Chick
05-29-2007, 06:54 AM
Jeez - I go away for a few days and look what I miss!

Those posts berating that woman made me sick. Nothing like kicking someone when they're already down. Apparently respect isn't really all that important, eh? If you dare ask a question, it must be because you're a moron and everyone has to get their lick in when they can.

CatSlave
05-29-2007, 07:01 AM
Cult behavior in action.

emsuniverse
05-29-2007, 07:16 AM
I'm with Jersey - I went away for a couple days and wow...

From the post about "I wish I never signed a contract":

I cant believe that someone is upset that they have to pay for their own books. Did you NOT read your contract before you signed it?

Um....

From good ole Dick: Jennifer, you haven't a clue as to what the publishing business is all about. You need to do some studying and research.

Oh dear God.

I hope that some of these replies here won't scare you off. Sometimes we all need a good kick in the (insert rolling eyes face here) to make us look at things in a new way.

Yes, yes it does.


I am sure that PA does not expect to get positive raves 100% of thie time but this is not one of the times - free publishing,free book cover, free website, etc ,etc give the guys a break.

They do expect rave reviews. That's why there's tone letters. Free publishing? Um. Free book cover? Have you seen those Clip-Art/Photoshop works? Give the guys a break? Why, exactly?

CatSlave
05-29-2007, 07:20 AM
A tourist wanders into a back-alley antique shop in San Francisco's Chinatown. Picking through the objects on display he discovers a detailed, life-sized bronze sculpture of a rat. The sculpture is so interesting and unique that he picks it up and asks the shop owner what it costs.

"Twelve dollars for the rat, sir," says the shop owner, "and a thousand dollars more for the story behind it."

"You can keep the story, old man," he replies, "but I'll take the rat."

The transaction complete, the tourist leaves the store with the bronze rat under his arm. As he crosses the street in front of the store, two live rats emerge from a sewer drain and fall into step behind him. Nervously looking over his shoulder, he begins to walk faster, but every time he passes another sewer drain, more rats come out and follow him. By the time he's walked two blocks, at least a hundred rats are at his heels, and people begin to point and shout. He walks even faster, and soon breaks into a trot as multitudes of rats swarm from sewers, basements, vacant lots, and abandoned cars. Rats by the thousands are at his heels, and as he sees the waterfront at the bottom of the hill, he panics and starts to run full tilt.

No matter how fast he runs, the rats keep up, squealing hideously, now not just thousands but millions, so that by the time he comes rushing up to the water's edge a trail of rats twelve city blocks long is behind him. Making a mighty leap, he jumps up onto a light post, grasping it with one arm while he hurls the bronze rat into San Francisco Bay with the other, as far as he can heave it. Pulling his legs up and clinging to the light post, he watches in amazement as the seething tide of rats surges over the breakwater into the sea, where they drown.

Shaken and mumbling, he makes his way back to the antique shop.

"Ah, so you've come back for the rest of the story," says the owner.

"No," says the tourist, "I was wondering if you have a bronze lawyer."

emsuniverse
05-29-2007, 07:30 AM
So the film guy listed a bunch of film companies that take phone calls. I looked a few up... For the most part, they look completely legitimate, and a few of them produced a bunch of big budget films.

I don't think they'll be taking cold calls from unknowns.

CatSlave
05-29-2007, 08:29 AM
Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject: Don't see Jennifer anywhere. Does anyone else?????

Let's hope she got tired of the group attack and is lurking on AW somewhere.
In case she's here: :welcome:

James D. Macdonald
05-29-2007, 09:11 AM
I notice that the folks who are beating up on her are either the Sour Grapes crowd or the Honeymooners.

A good number of the Honeymooners will be joining her when the honeymoon is over.

Marian Perera
05-29-2007, 02:34 PM
I have not pocketed any of the money that I have made on selling my books. I recycled the money to purchase other books so that I will have books to sign at my booksignings!

I hope for this woman's sake that she doesn't run out of booksignings some day. Since her book is non-fiction, she's probably doing OK selling them this way, but I doubt it would work for fiction.

MNP
05-29-2007, 04:31 PM
I'm not here to answer questions about PublishAmerica or to post on that matter at all. I'm sure there are those of you who will ask question anyway or who will go on the attack. I'm also not here to attack any person or to get into petty battles. Frankly, I have no time for such things.

I did however wish to comment on posts about myself that are often outright lies or mere speculation.

Mr. McDonald, I have never once participated in what is commonly known as guestbook sliming. As I stated above, I don't have time for such actions. I'm rarely on a computer outside of work hours. Feel free to investigate the matter thoroughly. You will not find me behind any sliming instance.

I have not ridiculed any writer, either from this site or from PublishAmerica.

Furthermore, I am not a convicted felon. Not a single charge brought against me was a felony. To be a convicted felon, you had to first be charged with a felony.

For a site that likes to present itself as a bastian of truth, it would be refreshing to see you actually post facts in all cases.

Christine N.
05-29-2007, 05:25 PM
No, you just sent your slimy lawyer after me, for doing nothing more than stating my opinion.

He never said it was definitely you, he just said he thought it might be. You and Vic should get your act together.

Take care of your own house before you come stomping into other people's. That mob display on the PAMB was digusting.

And maybe you should try to educate your writers a little more - like about how advances work.

Sheryl Nantus
05-29-2007, 05:32 PM
I'm not here to answer questions about PublishAmerica or to post on that matter at all. I'm sure there are those of you who will ask question anyway or who will go on the attack. I'm also not here to attack any person or to get into petty battles. Frankly, I have no time for such things.

I did however wish to comment on posts about myself that are often outright lies or mere speculation.

Mr. McDonald, I have never once participated in what is commonly known as guestbook sliming. As I stated above, I don't have time for such actions. I'm rarely on a computer outside of work hours. Feel free to investigate the matter thoroughly. You will not find me behind any sliming instance.

I have not ridiculed any writer, either from this site or from PublishAmerica.

Furthermore, I am not a convicted felon. Not a single charge brought against me was a felony. To be a convicted felon, you had to first be charged with a felony.

For a site that likes to present itself as a bastian of truth, it would be refreshing to see you actually post facts in all cases.

hmm... not in any dictionary I can find.

yet another example of PA's high standards, I guess.

:ROFL:

LloydBrown
05-29-2007, 05:37 PM
I'm guessing an IP check will refute the validity of this claim.

abemorgantis
05-29-2007, 05:42 PM
Furthermore, I am not a convicted felon. Not a single charge brought against me was a felony. To be a convicted felon, you had to first be charged with a felony.

Actually, you were charged with a felony, tampering with evidence but however you plead guilty to harassment, a misdemeanor:
A. Harassment consists of knowingly pursuing a pattern of conduct that is intended to annoy, seriously alarm or terrorize another person and that serves no lawful purpose. The conduct must be such that it would cause a reasonable person to suffer substantial emotional distress.
B. Whoever commits harassment is guilty of a misdemeanor.


So I apologize, you not a convicted felon. However, you plead guilty to trying to annoy, seriously alarm or terrorize another person. The fact it wasn't a felony doesn't take away from the fact you continue such behaviour with authors and your "tone letters".

Before telling us we're not telling the truth, why don't you start by telling your authors the truth?

JimmyD1318
05-29-2007, 05:42 PM
Take care of your own house before you come stomping into other people's. That mob display on the PAMB was digusting.



I agree. Why do you guys run that board like a dictatorship? If someone asks a legitimate question just be honest about it and answer them instead of deleting their post. And yes, that attack on that one poor woman was awful. And by the way Christine, I'm so glad to see you posting here again.

abemorgantis
05-29-2007, 05:43 PM
I'm guessing an IP check will refute the validity of this claim.

I did and it comes from America Online.

Jersey Chick
05-29-2007, 05:59 PM
[quote]For a site that likes to present itself as a bastian of truth, it would be refreshing to see you actually post facts in all cases.

I believe the word you really meant to use is bastion. I can't find bastian anywhere in any one of my dictionaries...

I agree with the others - that mob mentality on display was revolting. What's the harm in asking a question, unless, of course, it's a question that might shine an unflattering light... Hmmm???

Christine N.
05-29-2007, 05:59 PM
Oh, I believe it's Miranda. That spelling error speaks of stipid zobmis.

And they won't speak kindly to Jennifer or try to assuage her fears - no, she'll get a public dressing down from Infomonster, which will only serve to stir the mob.

spike
05-29-2007, 06:09 PM
Has anyone else noticed a pattern? Whenever we, at AW, are addressing outlandish comments or behavior on the PAMB, that someone (or some sock puppet) from PA comes over to distract us?

The post that may or may not be from Miranda (and really, who cares?) isn't going to distract me from the verbal stoning of one of their members because she ASKED QUESTIONS.

Most recently, from that thread:

[I think it speaks well of the benevolence of P.A.-- that they have allowed this thread to continue! http://bb.publishamerica.com/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif




No, it is not benevolence that has PA allowing the thread. It is a warning of what the mob will do to you if you dare question PA.

Also, it is spreading PA's lies.

JimmyD1318
05-29-2007, 06:22 PM
I have wanted to publish a book since I was in high school. And, I never thought that was possible until I happned to stumble upon PA. I did not have to be a big name author for them was want to publish my book. I knew what I was getting into, and so did the all the other PA published authors. I never thouht for one second that PA was going to give me free books (other then the 2 they listed in the contract). I knew that I was going to have to buy books for certain things. But I have been reading and doing some research; there are some bookstore (not a lot mind you) that will buy the books for your books signing, but you have to go and talk to them. I have called a couple; take it I am still waiting for call backs about getting books signings and see if they will put my book on the shelves. But I know that I must keep moving forward. That is the one thing that you need not forget. Other authors have gotten where there are by working, and I know that you and anyone else is the same. Don't give up just cause you found out that PA is not going to give you free books. As it was said earlier, there is no company that would do that. Even if you had been picked up by Pocket Books or something like that, they would want you buy your own books if you wanted to sell them on the side.

PA did good by me, and I knew what I was getting into before I signed the contract. I am not sure I would have ever gotten my work published if was not for them. But know I have been and I could not be happier.


The bolding is mine. That part has gotten my anger up in more ways than one. My small press is going to GIVE me fifteen free copies of my book when it's published. And no big time publisher wants their authors buying their own books to turn around and resell them! That's their job to do, not the author's!:rant:

Jersey Chick
05-29-2007, 06:32 PM
I think it speaks well of the benevolence of P.A.-- that they have allowed this thread to continue!

I saw that and rolled my eyes so hard they got stuck up inside my head (it's a little dusty in there! :))

Are you kidding? Benevolence??? Ganging up on this woman for asking a question? Give me break...

Christine N.
05-29-2007, 06:33 PM
Yeah, but you probably can't sell those author copies, which is kind of what he's talking about.

Yes, most publishers give you more than two author copies, but you can't sell them.

And yes, if you are allowed to sell your own books (some contracts expressly forbid authors purchasing copies for resale) then you have to buy them. Some do it to give away, some for cons or book festivals where there is no bookseller on site. We're not talking cases either.

But the idea that EVERY author has to buy their own books out of pocket for a signing at a store is ridiculous.

I won't say that other authors never buy their own books, but I will say the vast majority of authors don't purchase a great amount of books to sell from their trunk.

JimmyD1318
05-29-2007, 06:40 PM
Yeah, but you probably can't sell those author copies, which is kind of what he's talking about.

Yes, most publishers give you more than two author copies, but you can't sell them.

And yes, if you are allowed to sell your own books (some contracts expressly forbid authors purchasing copies for resalse) then you have to buy them. Some do it to give away, some for cons or book festivals where there is no bookseller on site. We're not talking cases either.

But the idea that EVERY author has to buy their own books out of pocket for a signing at a store is ridiculous.

I won't say that other authors never buy their own books, but I will say the vast majority of authors don't purchase a great amount of books to sell from their trunk.


You explained it better than me Christine. Thank you.:D I'll go get you a slice of cheesecake now.;)

James D. Macdonald
05-29-2007, 06:46 PM
Welcome, MNP.

So far this is a one-time post. It was posted from Frederick, MD. Notice that the poster never says who he or she is.

If it is indeed Miranda I hope that she does stick around, if not to answer questions then to ask them. We'll try to tell her how real publishing works -- something that she won't learn from Willem and Larry.

It is true, BTW, that Miranda isn't a convicted felon. The charge of filing a false police report was also a misdemeanor.

abemorgantis
05-29-2007, 06:53 PM
Welcome, MNP.

So far this is a one-time post. It was posted from Frederick, MD. Notice that the poster never says who he or she is.

If it is indeed Miranda I hope that she does stick around, if not to answer questions then to ask them. We'll try to tell her how real publishing works -- something that she won't learn from Willem and Larry.

It is true, BTW, that Miranda isn't a convicted felon. The charge of filing a false police report was also a misdemeanor.

Okay, I apologize. I am man enough to admit my mistake. How about you, Miranda? Will you stay here and answer our questions? We are a polite bunch.

emsuniverse
05-29-2007, 07:02 PM
Welcome, Miranda!

Abe's right, we're a very friendly bunch.

JimmyD1318
05-29-2007, 07:09 PM
Yes we are. Besides we don't want to get a tone letter.:D

JulieB
05-29-2007, 07:17 PM
Other than the few instances Christine mentioned, why would I want to buy my own in-print books for resale when I can let the publisher do it and pay ME money on the sales?

James D. Macdonald
05-29-2007, 07:25 PM
As it was said earlier, there is no company that would do that. Even if you had been picked up by Pocket Books or something like that, they would want you buy your own books if you wanted to sell them on the side.

Yes, but why would you want to?

It isn't unusual for contracts with real publishers to specify that any books the author buys are not for resale.

Some people do, from time to time, ask me if they can buy one of my books. I either direct them to a bookstore, or say "Do I look like a bookstore? Here, take one," and hand them a copy from my author's stash.

I'll be doing the Book 'Em (http://bookemfoundation.org/lebanon/index.html) thing again this year. The books that I'll bring to that are from the various boxes of books that publishers sent me for free.

emsuniverse
05-29-2007, 07:45 PM
I don't know of anyway to check your sales. I made enough to buy a cup of coffee. Promoting is the absolute hardest. I have bought e-mail mailings that increase my web site hits, advertised on local T/V, submitted to internet classifieds. Can't say that sales were improved. Best wishes.

Because, really, mass emails always work. But at least they can by a cup of coffee to keep trekking on...

Christine N.
05-29-2007, 07:53 PM
To be fair, UJ, not all of us are with large publishers who can afford to give us cases of books. Still, I get a fair shake from my publisher on copies I do purchase above and beyond my amount of author's copies (also a fair amount for a small press on a tight budget.) Again, usually for giveaways, and the occasional con or book festival. And I've even been sent books before for that, with the stipulation I keep meticulous records and pass the money back to them. No biggie.

We're talking a dozen, maybe twenty at the VERY most, certainly far less than the average PA author purchases. Yes, I'm allowed to resell, but I don't do it except in those two instances I mentioned.

I would say that if UJ showed up at a con, most of the sellers in the dealer's room would have a book or two of his that people could buy and ask him to sign :)

And all the rest of my apperances are either at bookstores or schools, both of which deal with my publisher directly for books.

Beyond that, if I send a list of reviewer addresses to my publisher, they send out the review copies, no questions asked. No need for the reviewers to beg for copies, or prove they're 'legitimate reviewers'.

Beyond that, the publicity people for one of my publishers sends a copy of the book, a media kit and a marketing plan to all the major chain buyers, and gives it her best effort to get the books stocked. And I have to say she's been successful with a few titles, so the chances for the rest of us go up.

PA doesn't even try.

(My other publisher, also a small press, has a distributor, and when my book comes out in print next year, will probably be seen on shelves of Borders and Waldenbooks in a great many markets. They're growing rapidly, and I can only imagine how many shelves they'll be on by the time my book sees print.)

America's number one book publisher doesn't really seem like their doing anything that even the little guys are doing!

Jersey Chick
05-29-2007, 07:54 PM
Nothing like irritating your (hopefully) reading public by hitting them with spam. That would make me want to buy something from you. It's the equivalent of the telemarketing call at dinner.

DeadlyAccurate
05-29-2007, 08:13 PM
And we pay so much attention to spam these days. Why, just a few seconds ago, I looked at my junk email folder for a whopping three seconds to make sure no legitimate emails slipped in before I deleted everything unread. I'm sure I'm the exception, though. I'm sure most people meticulously read every email that's sent to them, just in case they really do want a gold watch, Viagra, a better mortgage, or some overpriced book they've never heard of.

Jersey Chick
05-29-2007, 08:22 PM
Don't forget that $5 million sitting in the Nigerian (or wherever) bank account in your name, if you send so-and-so two thousand dollars so they can get the paperwork processed. I get one of those probably once a month in my one mailbox.

Sparhawk
05-29-2007, 08:25 PM
Christine and Uncle Jim make brilliant points... as always! The one thing, to me, that speaks volumes about PA is book sales.

What other "Traditional" publisher is satisfied with a book selling less than 500 copies. What other publisher would even consider publishing a book unedited. Would a real publisher be happy having average title sale of 73 copies??

This one fact alone says more about Publish America than anything I can consider. This entity doesn't expect thier authors to succeed and their business model doesn't support books selling mor ethan a few copies let alone being carried bya chain store. At PA the author is the mobile book mart and motivated sales force. The "Publisher" does nothing but sit back and collect 92% of every sweat soaked sale and 100% on all author self purchases.

Even I know that this isn't a normal publishing practice. PA does it's best to isolate it's herd of PAvidians from the main stream and brow beat those that want to succeed. Right Moe?! Right Vic?! Right Willem ?!

I wonder how many book sales paid for the grand Hellocopter trek.

Afinerosesheis
05-29-2007, 08:35 PM
I did not know until I came here that other pubs give you several more books. So I have learned that, thank you. Barnes and Noble won't touch me. It has been a fight and a barrage of phone calls and I don't have it in me to fight the bookstores anymore. It's a lesson learned. I'm staying positive for things down the road.

JimmyD1318
05-29-2007, 08:39 PM
I'm staying positive for things down the road.

That's the right attitude to have Rose. Here, have a hug on me. :Hug2:That's the best thing I like about AW, you always learn here more and more each day.

Christine N.
05-29-2007, 08:41 PM
Rose, FWIW, lots of small presses have trouble with B&N. I've found Borders to be far more receptive and easier to deal with. That being said, I know my book has a BINC, which is a number assigned to the book by Borders, meaning you have to be in their database to get books in-store. Meaning someone has to submit the book to their corporate office. Jean Marie suceeded in getting her PA book a BINC, but she did it all herself.

I have had signings at B&N's but it was much more difficult.

Afinerosesheis
05-29-2007, 08:51 PM
After my signing at BN in Evansville Indiana, the lady in charge approached me and said if I came next year I would have to bring my own books. She said it was an absolute nightmare to order our books for this multi-author signing.

Needless to say, the long trip home was depressing. I think after that is when my brain began to kick into high gear.

I'm still depressed LOL

Thank you for the hug, Jimmy. I think I need one today. But I promise to keep this pity party short.

Sheryl Nantus
05-29-2007, 08:55 PM
part of the nightmare is the simple fact that PA only gives Ingram a 5% discount on their books - this is FAR below the usual and actively discourages bookstores from ordering from Ingrams. Sure, they could order from PA and get a higher discount, but the books are then unable to be returned - and most bookstores won't dare go that route. And don't believe the PA line about Ingram's setting the discount - that's a pile of rubbish!

PA is set up for the AUTHOR to BUY THE BOOKS - NOT for the bookstores to sell them to the public. They'll do anything to avoid dealing with bookstores and everything to sell books to the author. Once you realise that it's not a far stretch to understanding why PA is not recommended for anyone serious about their writing career.

Afinerosesheis
05-29-2007, 09:06 PM
I realize a lot more than I let on. Thanks. :)

JimmyD1318
05-29-2007, 09:21 PM
I'm not here to answer questions about PublishAmerica or to post on that matter at all. I'm sure there are those of you who will ask question anyway or who will go on the attack. I'm also not here to attack any person or to get into petty battles. Frankly, I have no time for such things.

I did however wish to comment on posts about myself that are often outright lies or mere speculation.

Mr. McDonald, I have never once participated in what is commonly known as guestbook sliming. As I stated above, I don't have time for such actions. I'm rarely on a computer outside of work hours. Feel free to investigate the matter thoroughly. You will not find me behind any sliming instance.

I have not ridiculed any writer, either from this site or from PublishAmerica.

Furthermore, I am not a convicted felon. Not a single charge brought against me was a felony. To be a convicted felon, you had to first be charged with a felony.

For a site that likes to present itself as a bastian of truth, it would be refreshing to see you actually post facts in all cases.

You know, I just realized that this would be like Darth Vader coming by for a visit to the rebel base to say 'hi'! If that is the case, I call being Han Solo. He was the coolest!:D

Sheryl Nantus
05-29-2007, 09:21 PM
I mean "you" in a generic, all-encompassing sense.

Sean D. Schaffer
05-29-2007, 09:25 PM
Welcome to the AbsoluteWrite Water Cooler, Miranda.

And guys, could we ease up a little on Miranda here? Ten to one, she's going to receive one hellish time from her fellow conspirators at PublishAmerica's higher levels for having merely posted here one time.

Plus, if this really is Miranda Prather, she's taking a mighty big risk posting here. Have Willem or Larry posted here, using their own initials, to defend themselves? They might have posted here at one point, but to my knowledge they have not done so under their own names and/or initials. Why would she have any reason to come here, of all places, and post her own defense if she didn't at least believe she was being wronged.

I mean, think about this people: she comes here talking about herself, not PA. Why? If she really had no defense, do you honestly think she would come here and post at all?

As for the spelling of 'bastion': if Miranda was heavily upset or in a hurry, she could very easily have made that mistake without thinking about it. Uncle Jim and other prominent authors have made far worse mistakes in forum posts, where spelling or punctuation is concerned, than one misspelled word.

And remember that she's not guilty of a felony until she's proven guilty of a felony in a court of law. Despite what we may hate about this individual, she's taken a lot of time and effort to post here, and probably she will catch hell for it later on at the hands of Larry or Willem. So if only for the sake of her having put herself possibly at risk for her posting here, try to ease up on her just a tad bit.

abemorgantis
05-29-2007, 09:40 PM
I think we're being pleasant with her. She came, said her thing, we repiied. She's welcome to come back and refute our claims. I'm all ears.

Jersey Chick
05-29-2007, 09:54 PM
I don't think anyone's really crossed any lines - there's a little anger, but I think it's plenty justified. As for the questions, I would love to hear the explanation for them and I don't think asking is really all that rough of a treatment.

Sean D. Schaffer
05-29-2007, 10:01 PM
I was specifically referring to some posts on Page 74 of this thread, where some posters did mock the esteemed new member. This is a fast moving thread sometimes, but when I hit 'Reply', I was on Page 74 reading a few nice little insults and innuendos about Ms. Prather.

Christine N.
05-29-2007, 10:10 PM
Sean,
You know I have the highest respect for you. But I'm sorry, I have none for PA or the people who propegate it. Not after what they've tried to do to me, and not after the way we've seen how they treat their own writers. They have no respect for their fellow writers.

I will respect my fellow writer here, out of care for Mac, but not for MNP's sake.

Jersey Chick
05-29-2007, 10:17 PM
I guess it's all a matter of perspective. I just happen to think that, if you want to be taken seriously (as I'm assuming she did), and you know you might have a target on your back (right, wrong or otherwise), it's probably best to put as professional a foot forward as you can, including checking over your spelling, etc. JMHO.

DaveKuzminski
05-29-2007, 10:20 PM
I have no sympathy for MNP. I've written to her before suggesting she turn state's evidence and help put PA out of every writer's misery. She's broken the law before and been convicted. Now she wants sympathy because she didn't do one thing, according to her. If she wants me to believe her, then she should do something significant that shows she's sincere.

Hmmm, does anyone beside me get the feeling that Vic is her replacement? After all, he could run the operation and issue far more scarier letters than her and they could eliminate her and her salary so that Willem will have more dollars to buy that ever more expensive aviation fuel for his "hellocopter." I've seen exactly this kind of scenario happen in businesses that were a lot more legitimate in their intentions than PA, but that doesn't mean PA can't do what they did.

emsuniverse
05-29-2007, 10:41 PM
I'm still wondering if it really is her, or if it's just someone pretending to be her.

emsuniverse
05-29-2007, 10:45 PM
Ironic beyond measure:

Hey guys I'm just wondering if the seven year contract means you can't publish with anyone else until your contract with PA is over. I'm asking because I'm going to need to go with a new publisher next summer because my husband and I might be going back to his home country next year and it's not Canada or USA. It's KSA(Kingdom of Saudi Arabia) and since PA doesn't accept manuscripts from authors unless they are residents of USA or Canada that leaves me in trouble. I'm thinking of going with Dorrance Publishing Company. Thanks everyone.

Reply:

Dorrance is a subsidy publishing company. That means that they charge you for everything they do and require you to purchase a number of your books.

"There is a sucker born every minute." - P.T. Barnum

It needs no explaination.

MNP
05-29-2007, 10:45 PM
Thank you to those of you who answered specifically what I said. I apologize for having misspelled a word - not my first, certainly won't be my last. As some of you have repeatedly pointed out, I'm a horrible writer anyway, so one more mark against me.

As for the remark about sympathy, nowhere have I requested it. I requested a factual posting. My trial is in the past. The case is closed, and I wasn't convicted of a felony.

Additionally, I know if anyone cares to look will they find me responsible for one guestbook sliming or post in which I berate, belittle or otherwise insult any individual who posts on this board.

That was my point pure and simple. If you elect to hate me, so be it. I'm not out to change anyone's mind.

LloydBrown
05-29-2007, 10:49 PM
Yep. The jury's still out. The Fredericksburg IP is a positive sign, and the hit & run nature of the post is a positive sign, too, I would think. It's similar in behavior to what we see out of other scammers, like Robert Fletcher and "Georgina Orr". Somebody yanking our chain would just pull on it until it falls off.

The spelling error in a common word is typical of Miranda, although far from exclusive to her.

As Uncle Jim obvserved, this person never identified himself/herself as Miranda.

Edit: ooh, crossposting.

James D. Macdonald
05-29-2007, 10:50 PM
I'm still wondering if it really is her, or if it's just someone pretending to be her.

That's an excellent observation.

I think it's funny that someone who comes by to blast us for speculation leaves us to speculate as to his or her identity.

LloydBrown
05-29-2007, 10:51 PM
Additionally, I know if anyone cares to look will they find me responsible for one guestbook sliming or post in which I berate, belittle or otherwise insult any individual who posts on this board.

Which one would that be?

James D. Macdonald
05-29-2007, 10:55 PM
Hey guys I'm just wondering if the seven year contract means you can't publish with anyone else until your contract with PA is over.

No, it's just the current book under contract. You can take the next one anywhere.

I wouldn't recommend Dorrance -- they're another pay-to-play vanity. A Dorrance author would wind up spending less than a PA author for the same number of books, but that isn't much of a recommendation. Sales numbers would be about the same as PublishAmerica.

She should find a legitimate publisher. She can go with any of the real publishers from anywhere in the world. All she needs is a post office box. (I sold my first two novels while I was on active duty deployed in the Republic of Panama.)

Afinerosesheis
05-29-2007, 10:57 PM
James-AKA Uncle Jim, many people here say you are a wise and good man. So I just wanted to say hello.

Merricat
05-29-2007, 10:58 PM
That's an excellent observation.

I think it's funny that someone who comes by to blast us for speculation leaves us to speculate as to his or her identity.


To be fair, unless someone is willing to call up PublishAmerica's offices in MD, get through to Ms. Prather's office and ask her personally whether or not these posts are hers, we'll have to accept this person's implied identity the same way we accept all other implied online identities.

Honestly? I don't think PA slimes their authors' guestbooks. The tactic is in line with many of their practices, but it would require an awful lot of effort (especially since so many of the authors have sites on freewebs, and so on.) Much easier to just send tone letters as required.

JimmyD1318
05-29-2007, 11:08 PM
That's an excellent observation.

I think it's funny that someone who comes by to blast us for speculation leaves us to speculate as to his or her identity.

If it is her, then I'm surprised that she even posted here! So, welcome...I guess. I still say it feels like Darth Vader coming by for a visit. Just a joke everyone.:D

James D. Macdonald
05-29-2007, 11:12 PM
Which one would that be?

I think the poster meant to say "not responsible."

The nature of guestbook sliming makes it difficult to prove who did it. Slimers seldom sign their real names. If we can match IP numbers from our database here with the IP number on a slime -- well, that's good. If no one complains, and we don't know the IP number of either a poster from here or the particular guestbook post, it's hard to do.

Take the person who called him-or-herself "popper20" in the 49 copies thread (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=666&page=3) for example -- that was several databases ago and the IP number information is lost. We wouldn't know if it matches anyone anywhere. Same for other random posts other places. We can't find the IP information.

It's trivially easy to disguise your IP for that matter. Logging in through AOL is only one way to do it.

All that aside.

I know that MNP said that he or she isn't here to answer questions, but I feel I have to ask one: Are you Miranda Prather of PublishAmerica?

I'll understand if you don't answer.

Sparhawk
05-29-2007, 11:36 PM
I know that MNP said that he or she isn't here to answer questions, but I feel I have to ask one: Are you Miranda Prather of PublishAmerica?

I'll understand if you don't answer.

Ditto. If you really are Miranda Prather of Publish America, why not answer a few questions. We're not bullies here, but many of us have been on the recieveing end of Publish America's less than professional antics; me included.

If you really are Miranda Prather of Publish America fame, why not engage us in a cordial dialougue. No insults, no bombs, just some honest direct dialogue. I ask you in all sincerity, what could you lose by having an open dialogue with us?

James D. Macdonald
05-29-2007, 11:53 PM
She said it was an absolute nightmare to order our books for this multi-author signing.

I think I missed something: Which multi-author signing was this? Where was it announced/described/organized, and when did it happen?

abemorgantis
05-30-2007, 12:01 AM
Ms. Prather, could you answer some questions?

1. Why are you less than honest about your discount policy? According to Ingrams, the publisher sets the discount so I am perplexed why PA says "They are working with Ingrams".

2. Are you aware that editing a manuscript goes beyond a spelling/grammar check?

3. If PA is a traditional publisher, why doesn't PA issue catalogs and have sales reps out to try to place PA's books on bookshelves?

Thanks.

Christine N.
05-30-2007, 12:02 AM
If it really is her, she's got guts, I'll give her that.

And, as far as the food chain goes at PA, I'm pretty sure she's on the bottom, so that's gotta suck.
No one will fault you for being a bad writer, but I think this board has a spell-check.

And while I may not be sympathetic, I'm more than willing to listen to and engage in, reasonable debate. I don't think I can be accused of attacking anyone who hasn't attacked me first. (Then again, my memory isn't what it used to be, if someone proves me wrong, I'll concede.)

As long as I don't get a tone letter, I'm good. :)

And I like Abemorgantis' questions. What it comes down to, is we want to know why PA calls itself a traditional publisher (we'll leave out the advance and royalty paying part for the moment) and then acts like a vanity one? All the traditional publishers I know.

A) read every submission from beginning to end, and accept very, VERY little.
B) gives each book a thorough edit, including story continuity, characterization and house style, in addition to copy editing. There is no option for editing - you get edited. Everyone needs good editing.
C) does cover art that is more than clip art (we've spotted where the same image is used on different novels.)
D) Promotes the book, more than putting on Amazon and the publisher's website and sending out fliers.
E) Doesn't send nasty notes to their authors for asking legitimate questions
F) Gives competitive discounts to bookstores and libraries, and has decent cover prices

The way I see it, either PA should act like a traditional publisher and be far more selective about their books. This would reduce your books released, but increase your reputation in the industry. Or, you should say you're a vanity publisher, and stop trying to make people think you're a traditional one. Tell people there is an expectation of buying books up front, even though you're doing the work for free.

Afinerosesheis
05-30-2007, 12:11 AM
I think I missed something: Which multi-author signing was this? Where was it announced/described/organized, and when did it happen?

It was on 3/17 hosted by the Midwest Writers Guild. I was not a member here then or I would have shared the info.

James D. Macdonald
05-30-2007, 12:22 AM
A) read every submission from beginning to end, and accept very, VERY little.

Not really. The ones they offer on they've read from end to end, but the ones they reject? They could reject 'em early on. If the first sip of milk is sour you don't drink the whole glass just to be sure.

Christine N.
05-30-2007, 12:24 AM
Well, that's true. It should be just 'accept very, very few submissions, and read the ones you DO accept from beginning to end'.

I don't know what I was thinking. I reject stuff based on the query letter.

James D. Macdonald
05-30-2007, 12:34 AM
It was on 3/17 hosted by the Midwest Writers Guild. I was not a member here then or I would have shared the info.

Was that this event (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2007/mar/15/writers-guild-sponsor-inaugural-book-fair/)?

Afinerosesheis
05-30-2007, 12:38 AM
Yes it is, and come to find out it centered all around the Bruckheimer woman. :( Lucky me was seated directly behind her. I didn't have a chance.

Funny thing is, when I got home and checked her reviews they were somewhat less than flattering. But she has a name (AND a cheaper book), That is the way it works I suppose.

Sheryl Nantus
05-30-2007, 12:47 AM
Yes it is, and come to find out it centered all around the Bruckheimer woman. :( Lucky me was seated directly behind her. I didn't have a chance.

Funny thing is, when I got home and checked her reviews they were somewhat less than flattering. But she has a name (AND a cheaper book), That is the way it works I suppose.

if you mean - she had an editor, a publisher willing to put money behind the book and a decent pricing scheme... yep, that's how it works.

it's sad to think that there are so many PA books that could be darned good reads if they weren't unedited, overpriced tomes that will never see the inside of a bookstore.

such a shame.

Afinerosesheis
05-30-2007, 12:51 AM
if you mean - she had an editor, a publisher willing to put money behind the book and a decent pricing scheme... yep, that's how it works.

it's sad to think that there are so many PA books that could be darned good reads if they weren't unedited, overpriced tomes that will never see the inside of a bookstore.

such a shame.You are obviously a woman of great wisdom and while I appreciate your replies to my posts, you need not waste the lectures on me. I am well aware of my circumstances. :)

Sheryl Nantus
05-30-2007, 01:07 AM
You are obviously a woman of great wisdom and while I appreciate your replies to my posts, you need not waste the lectures on me. I am well aware of my circumstances. :)

sorry, but it's *not* all about you.

there are plenty of would-be PA victims who visit here and find this thread - and it bears repeating over and over again the truth about PA.

if it saves ONE person from falling into the trap, it's worth it. We've already had some authors post that they avoided submitting their work to PA because of this thread.

as Uncle Jim pointed out previously - it's not the PA authors we're trying to inform - it's those who are about to fall into the Stooges' clutches that we're trying to get to.

Afinerosesheis
05-30-2007, 01:11 AM
That's fair enough.

BlueBadger
05-30-2007, 01:34 AM
it's sad to think that there are so many PA books that could be darned good reads if they weren't unedited, overpriced tomes that will never see the inside of a bookstore.

Some Publish America authors have remarkable life stories. If they worked to improve their writing instead of stopping the train at PA, I have no doubt many of them would produce something really worth reading.

Sean D. Schaffer
05-30-2007, 02:02 AM
Snipped...

As for the remark about sympathy, nowhere have I requested it. I requested a factual posting. My trial is in the past. The case is closed, and I wasn't convicted of a felony.

...Snipped.


Who said anything about sympathy? I simply wanted people to follow the rules here. What you think is your business, but when we come here, we're expected to follow certain rules. One is to respect your fellow writer.

If that fellow writer is you, so be it.

allenparker
05-30-2007, 02:35 AM
Funny thing is, when I got home and checked her reviews they were somewhat less than flattering.

An honest review will have both the good and the bad in them. I've had 5 star reviews on Amazon that produced nothing. I got a 4 star review from Ed Williams that mentioned some weak points. It helped sales.

I had a review on a blog recently that mentioned several areas where I could improve, but gave a good overall review. Sales did well for a few days afterward.

No matter what, the honest review is the best review. People know when someone is just blowing smoke.

Even if I had no other sales from the reviews, I learned something that will make my next stories better.

DaveKuzminski
05-30-2007, 02:41 AM
Sales for some of my books have been terrific every time there's a bad review. I take it in stride. If bad reviews are what sell books, bring 'em on. I'll figure out a way to make it to the bank without tripping and losing the money in the street. ;)

DaveKuzminski
05-30-2007, 04:16 AM
Personally, I think MNP is feeling the pressure and loneliness now that Alice and Vic are both ahead of her in the hierarchy at PA. That's got to hurt after all the loyal years MNP has put in for PA

abemorgantis
05-30-2007, 06:22 AM
Who is Alice? Willem's wife?

Jersey Chick
05-30-2007, 07:34 AM
I was wondering the same thing, but I figured it was earlier in the thread and I missed it :)

ResearchGuy
05-30-2007, 08:00 AM
Some Publish America authors have remarkable life stories. If they worked to improve their writing instead of stopping the train at PA, I have no doubt many of them would produce something really worth reading.
Maybe many of them have.

How many PA books, out of the, what, 20,000?, have folks here actually read? I have read one that was superb (Dhow of the Monsoon), have in my vast reading pile another that I am confident is excellent (Wednesday Night "Mom") because I have known the author as a serious writer for a long time and a quick scan of her book was promising, and have one other for which I cannot get through page 1 on account of the wooden prose and stilted dialogue (that author's trademark, apparently; I'll not list the title of that one). Another of which I am aware is drawing raves from local booksellers (apparently it had great potential, but for whatever reason the author let PA get it; not sure of the title off the top of my head). Who knows how many jewels might be found among the 20,000?

--Ken

Sassenach
05-30-2007, 08:08 AM
Who knows how many jewels might be found among the 20,000?



Probably the same as found in any other slush pile--1 or 2 percent.

There's no reason to assume that the PA slush pile's any different.

LloydBrown
05-30-2007, 08:16 AM
There's no reason to assume that the PA slush pile's any different.

Actually, I believe there is.

A certain fraction of PA authors are there because they have been rejected by real publishers--some of them many times. Out of that group of manuscripts, a greater percentage are likely to be bad publishing choices. If they had been marketable, someone would have extended an offer.

That means the whole wagonload has more chaff and less grain than a normal mix.

James D. Macdonald
05-30-2007, 08:52 AM
Who knows how many jewels might be found among the 20,000?



As it happens, I know that answer.

They've got just about 1,000 books that are worth reading.

VGrossack
05-30-2007, 09:16 AM
As it happens, I know that answer.

They've got just about 1,000 books that are worth reading.

And how did you arrive at that estimate?

James D. Macdonald
05-30-2007, 09:57 AM
You wish me to reveal my methods? Very well.

First, as to Lloyd's observation, I doubt that's the case. Any slushpile you look in will have many, many manuscripts that have been rejected multiple times. Sometimes you'll find manuscripts that have been making the rounds for decades. So I believe that PA's slush is just typical slush. That means that around 1% of it is publishable.

But -- PA rejects books. Allegedly they only publish 20% of what they get. Now we know that a lot of those rejections are based on things like length or from being too hard to format, but I hope that they're also rejecting the books that are written by people who are functionally illiterate or actually insane.

That leaves these categories, which we are told (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004641.html) make up 20% of the slush pile:



# It’s nice that the author is working on his/her problems, but the process would be better served by seeing a shrink than by writing novels.

# Nobody but the author is ever going to care about this dull, flaccid, underperforming book.

# The book has an engaging plot. Trouble is, it’s not the author’s, and everybody’s already seen that movie/read that book/collected that comic.

...

# Someone could publish this book, but we don’t see why it should be us.

# Author is talented, but has written the wrong book.

# It’s a good book, but the house isn’t going to get behind it, so if you buy it, it’ll just get lost in the shuffle.

# Buy this book.

I think we can all recognize a lot of PA books in that list, from every one of the described categories.

If "Buy this book" makes up 1% of the raw slush, it makes up 5% of the slush after the bottom 80% is swept away.

5% of 20,000 is 1,000. Hence, my estimate that PA has 1,000 readable titles.

jamiehall
05-30-2007, 09:57 AM
there are plenty of would-be PA victims who visit here and find this thread - and it bears repeating over and over again the truth about PA.

if it saves ONE person from falling into the trap, it's worth it. We've already had some authors post that they avoided submitting their work to PA because of this thread.

as Uncle Jim pointed out previously - it's not the PA authors we're trying to inform - it's those who are about to fall into the Stooges' clutches that we're trying to get to.

That's one reason why guestbook notes to PA authors aren't allowed. People who are already on the inside of PA will often see it as harassment, and it just creates anger and bad feelings. We're letting them come to us, if they do, not traveling out and preaching to them. Who wants to be preached at?

But those who are not yet signed up can benefit by the large cache of information here, and repeating ourselves doesn't hurt that cause one bit. It just adds more weight to that side of the argument by showing how many people here agree on all these points.

James D. Macdonald
05-30-2007, 10:04 AM
Another reason for repeating ourselves: We've seen comments to the effect of "I saw the negative information about PA but it was all from two years ago and I figured that they must have changed since then."

That's why we need the information to be dated, well, today.

jamiehall
05-30-2007, 10:11 AM
Another reason for repeating ourselves: We've seen comments to the effect of "I saw the negative information about PA but it was all from two years ago and I figured that they must have changed since then."

That's why we need the information to be dated, well, today.

A very good point. I've seen that argument made too many times by people who signed with PA. Even if the info was a couple of years old (which it isn't) it would still be a huge red flag. But some people need to know that the red flags are sprouting in PA-land to this day. It helps them avoid that pitfall.

jamiehall
05-30-2007, 10:15 AM
From http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21303


our job as an author is to Market ... JK Rowling ... one of the best known authors in the world ... STILL has to market her books .... they call them 'PUBLICITY TOURS' but it is nothing more than marketing!!!...and she hates it!! ... so why does she do it?? to sell books! and as far as having an over supply of books .. Judge Judy told a TV reporter one day that in her garage sits box after box of her books that never sold ...


Anyone care to address this one?

Christine N.
05-30-2007, 01:57 PM
:ROFL:

No, honey, your job as an author is to write. Everything else is appreciated, not required. And I know Jo hates her appearances, which is why she doesn't do that many. And when you've sold MILLIONS of copies before the book even hits the shelf, there's not much of that that's needed, except to sell tickets to things like Harry, Carrie and Garp. Which I think was for charity?

James D. Macdonald
05-30-2007, 04:10 PM
First, re: Judge Judy. I expect that one or another edition of one of her books went out of print and she was offered the chance to buy the warehouse stock at cost. So she did -- a garage full of books that never sold. Which she can sell from the back of the hall when she appears as a speaker somewhere.

Next, re: J. K. Rowling. She doesn't have to make appearances to sell her books, her books are selling so she has to make appearances. Publishers market their books. You knew that, right? And they use every tool at their disposal. So when my publisher arranged a radio interview on NPR last December, guess what! I did it.

Jersey Chick
05-30-2007, 04:54 PM
Yanno, JK Rowling has never visited my local B&N or Borders - but I'd bet my meft eye that the newest HP will fly outta there come July...

Actually, the only authors I've ever met have been the ones in my local RWA chapter - two were at a booksigning in Brentanos (since gone <sigh>) and the others were at chapter meetings. And I have a ton of books. One of my favorites, Johanna Lindsey, is a one who never goes on book tours - she's famously reclusive - yet I have everything she's ever written.

LloydBrown
05-30-2007, 05:02 PM
James, I think you're making two poor assumptions. First, that PA is telling the truth about anything, much less the number of manuscripts that they reject.

Two, that they reject anything based on quality. We've seen some fairly close to insane ones. They didn't blink at Atlanta Nights. Judging by some of their message board posts, literacy isn't required, either.

James D. Macdonald
05-30-2007, 05:32 PM
James, I think you're making two poor assumptions.

I know, Lloyd, but I'm coming down on the side of charity.

abemorgantis
05-30-2007, 05:42 PM
:ROFL:

No, honey, your job as an author is to write. Everything else is appreciated, not required. And I know Jo hates her appearances, which is why she doesn't do that many. And when you've sold MILLIONS of copies before the book even hits the shelf, there's not much of that that's needed, except to sell tickets to things like Harry, Carrie and Garp. Which I think was for charity?

My book is in editing and my publisher is interesting in reading what I am writing now. They haven't told me to go out and promote, asked for addresses of 100 people or tried to hawk books about marketing to me.

Hummertime
05-30-2007, 05:42 PM
Personally, I think MNP is feeling the pressure and loneliness now that Alice and Vic are both ahead of her in the hierarchy at PA. That's got to hurt after all the loyal years MNP has put in for PA

I don't think we can know what Miranda, or any other person is thinking. That being said, it appears Miranda (if MNP is her) came here in good faith. I think we ought to open the lines of communication and try and help her see things our way.

Afinerosesheis
05-30-2007, 06:21 PM
James, I think you're making two poor assumptions. First, that PA is telling the truth about anything, much less the number of manuscripts that they reject.

Two, that they reject anything based on quality. We've seen some fairly close to insane ones. They didn't blink at Atlanta Nights. Judging by some of their message board posts, literacy isn't required, either.


I sure hope people don't judge me or anyone else by our posts. Isn't this a place just to chill and relax?

Judging anyone or anything gives me the blahs~

Dave.C.Robinson
05-30-2007, 06:43 PM
I sure hope people don't judge me or anyone else by our posts. Isn't this a place just to chill and relax?

Judging anyone or anything gives me the blahs~

People judge other people all the time-- it's natural. The only thing we know about the other posters here are their posts. As far as I know, I've only met one person from AW offline.

AW is a writers' forum, it's a place people come for advice about writing, and assistance with their projects. It's very easy to ignore someone's writing advice if it comes in the form of a badly-written post. It implies that either the person doesn't care about how it's written or they don't know any better. Neither choice inspires confidence.

There's nothing wrong with judging a writer on their writing. It's not saying that they are a bad person. It's not a moral judgment. If you want assistance with a medical problem, you weigh a Doctor's opinion more highly than that of a first year medical student.

If you write a book and want it published, it only makes sense to pay attention to the people who've been there. I bought my first of Uncle Jim's books back in the early 90's. I bought my most recent one earlier this year. He has a demonstrated ability to get books published, so I judge his advice to be more valuable than that of other people on this board who haven't done that.

stormie
05-30-2007, 06:46 PM
....Isn't this a place just to chill and relax?
That would be the House of Peace, Calm, and Serenity started by Susie in Office Party here at AW. Love that place!

Judging anyone or anything gives me the blahs~ I know. But maybe go over to some of the other forums here. This PAMB forum is for hopefully encouraging anyone who's contemplating becoming a PA "author" not to. Only PA "authors" are allowed to respond on their PA message board. Thus, discussion of PAMB here. I doubt I'd call it "judging." The posts here are more of a reality check.

ResearchGuy
05-30-2007, 07:17 PM
I sure hope people don't judge me or anyone else by our posts. Isn't this a place just to chill and relax?

Judging anyone or anything gives me the blahs~
What do you mean by "judging"?

Inevitably, people will make evaluations of posters and of the quality of their posts. Is that "judging"?

So be it. if words have meaning--an important concept to writers, eh?--then how one chooses and uses words--and on what topics--is an essential component of how one is viewed by others. Folks who are uncomfortable with that will have a very hard time showing their writing to anyone who is capable of reading it.

--Ken

Afinerosesheis
05-30-2007, 07:46 PM
Maybe I shouldn't have posted the way I did. I am trying to fit in and I am a little self conscious. Not your bad, it is mine.

I like to feel comfortable posting and not worry so much about my verbs or modifiers in this setting. I may even butcher my sentences all to he//. :) Just because I am at ease in this setting does not mean though that I (or anyone else) can't write worthy material. It is my hope that people would not look at my posts and think she can't write worth a da*n. I don't believe that to be the case.

I am sure others feel the way that I do. They just want to come in and hang loose. Even the best of writers should feel good about letting their hair down and post to their heart's desire, good grammar or no.

I hope I make sense. :)

jamiehall
05-30-2007, 07:49 PM
I sure hope people don't judge me or anyone else by our posts. Isn't this a place just to chill and relax?

Judging anyone or anything gives me the blahs~

I haven't seen anything in your posts that makes me doubt your literacy.

However, I have seen writing accepted by PA that certainly wasn't literate.

All publishers get a lot of submissions that are beyond bad, they aren't even literate. See this blog post (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004641.html) by Teresa Nielsen Hayden for more information. PA is the only one who prints some of the non-literate stuff (perhaps a lot of it, judging by the sting manuscripts that they've accepted, see the Atlanta Nights and Crack of Death links here (http://jamiehall.livejournal.com/29474.html)).

Tina
05-30-2007, 07:51 PM
From http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21303



Anyone care to address this one?

A few years back JKR did a reading as part of the annual Harbourfront Reading series in Toronto. Know where it was held? The Skydome, now known as the Rogers Centre (ugh, don't get me started). I don't recall the exact number but a crowd of about 20-30K was probably about right. Many of them were school kids driven to the event in chartered buses. Naturally, there was massive media coverage. The event is shown as a clip during her A&E Biography and the screaming of the fans was so intense she took a few seconds just to stand still and listen.

She arranged all that herself, huh? Booked the Skydome, arranged the media, went around to each and every school to encourage interest in attending and above all, rented what must have been one HUGE truck to carry all the books she'd bought and paid for herself.

Yup, that's how it happened.

While I'm scratching my head in disbelief, I'll also just mention (and I've probably said this before) that an acceptance rate of 20% (assuming PA really rejects 80% - please correct me if I'm wrong, Miranda) would be fairly unprecedented in the publishing industry. I keep hearing numbers between 1/400 to 1/1500. Something like .001 percent.

jamiehall
05-30-2007, 08:03 PM
I don't think we can know what Miranda, or any other person is thinking. That being said, it appears Miranda (if MNP is her) came here in good faith. I think we ought to open the lines of communication and try and help her see things our way.

You are right. Even if some of us think of her as the enemy, there are many advantages to trying to make friends with your enemy, especially when you're doing so in a context where the enemy can't hurt you. How could MNP possibly hurt us? All of us here are too smart to sign up with PA. So what is there to lose?

And if we make a new friend whilst losing an enemy? That's good for us, and good for MNP. MNP, if that person is really Miranda, has done a very brave thing by coming here. And she might not realize the amount of harm that PA has done to authors. If she ever comes to grasp that and turns evidence, PA could possibly be shut down or forced to change its business practices to at least be honest about what it does and doesn't offer. That would be a great thing, and make MNP a hero.

Who is more of a hero: someone who has been a goody-two-shoes all along, or someone who was once part of the problem but then redeemed themselves? I think that most of us would agree the latter is far more of a hero. It is difficult, and very courageous, to admit that you've been on the same side as the bad guys. But who is in a better position to bring the bad guys down?

ResearchGuy
05-30-2007, 08:07 PM
As it happens, I know that answer.

They've got just about 1,000 books that are worth reading.
"Worth reading" raises questions. Worth reading for whom? No book on astrology or numerology is worth reading for me (not now -- I found that sort of thing fascinating when I was a teenager). But some sell very well. No book by any of those raving right-wing talking heads on cable is worth reading (although some sell in the hundreds of thousands). The kind of stuff I wrote for policy-shop publication is of no interest to anyone but a relative handful of policy wonks (and at that, wonky on the particular topic of each piece). Poetry? Not worth the time of day (not since, say, Poe). Fantasy novels? Some are popular, but they strike me as a waste of time (not so when I was a kid, though). Those hideous "Left Behind" novels? Yikes. But they sell in the millions despite wooden dialogue, cardboard characters, and ludicrous plotlines.

With tens of thousands of books published annually, it seems likely that the vast majority are not worth reading for most people. Trashy novels, specialized monographs (produced perhaps out of publish-or-perish necessity), loopy tirades, idiosyncratic poetry, memoirs of obscure individuals, puerile humor, religious tracts (or tracts on the "wrong" religion, or anti-religious tracts, for that matter). All of it not worth reading for most people. Much of it apparently (sometimes incomprehensibly) worth reading for some people.

I have next to me a copy of Ian Stewart's Concepts of Modern Mathematics. Show of hands: who finds that worth reading? How about Robert Formaini's The Myth of Scientific Public Policy? Any takers on that? More on point here, how about Mojitaba Dehghan's Chatter to Flatter Your Platter? (From iUniverse, short book of personal essays that was nearly submitted to PA.) Strike anyone here as "worth reading"? (Actually, it is, but especially for those who know Moj.)

I am not sure that "worth reading" is a useful criterion.

IMHO FWIW.

--Ken

Sparhawk
05-30-2007, 08:14 PM
<<*******, I think perhaps there are many good suggestions on how to go about purchasing your own books, and selling at a profit on these boards. In fact, it would seem that the profit you make by selling your own stock is greater than what you would get through royalties. I took advantage of the 50% discount on the first order, and have sold enough of them to partially pay the cost of the purchase just through friends who want an autographed copy! ( my book is in the $25 range, and I am selling the autographed copies for $27--the buyer pays no shipping or taxes.) And I am just beginning.

I now wish I had ordered many more than I did. I have yet to set up any book signings, but that is coming soon, and I expect I will sell all I have and will need to order more. I put my first purchase on a credit card, and will not regret it, I think. It's almost half paid for.>>

THIS, my dear friends, is the PAvidian model in all it's glory. Man, I practically weep when I see posts like this.

Sheryl Nantus
05-30-2007, 08:17 PM
well, you know... you don't *have* to buy your own books at PA.

but that's the only way you'll ever get them into the hands of the customers (friends and family, in other words).

*rolls eyes*

JanDarby
05-30-2007, 08:48 PM
the buyer pays no shipping or taxes

I wonder what the local taxing authority where the author is selling the books would say if it knew about this.

JD

ResearchGuy
05-30-2007, 09:13 PM
I wonder what the local taxing authority where the author is selling the books would say if it knew about this.

JD
There is also the matter of a business license for the author-bookseller. Requirements vary a lot from one jurisdiction to another, but where the rules are inclusive (Sacramento, CA, for example), one had better pay attention, as there are fines for violations. Most states have a sales tax, so if an author expects to sell more than a trivial number of books, he or she needs to do the paperwork, keep records, and pay the tax, or risk penalties.

--Ken

James D. Macdonald
05-30-2007, 09:15 PM
...and have sold enough of them to partially pay the cost of the purchase just through friends who want an autographed copy!

Partially pay the cost. What happens if you run out of friends before you run out of books?

CatSlave
05-30-2007, 09:25 PM
You wish me to reveal my methods? Very well.

First, as to Lloyd's observation, I doubt that's the case. Any slushpile you look in will have many, many manuscripts that have been rejected multiple times. Sometimes you'll find manuscripts that have been making the rounds for decades. So I believe that PA's slush is just typical slush. That means that around 1% of it is publishable.

But -- PA rejects books. Allegedly they only publish 20% of what they get. Now we know that a lot of those rejections are based on things like length or from being too hard to format, but I hope that they're also rejecting the books that are written by people who are functionally illiterate or actually insane.

That leaves these categories, which we are told (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004641.html) make up 20% of the slush pile:



# Itís nice that the author is working on his/her problems, but the process would be better served by seeing a shrink than by writing novels.

# Nobody but the author is ever going to care about this dull, flaccid, underperforming book.

# The book has an engaging plot. Trouble is, itís not the authorís, and everybodyís already seen that movie/read that book/collected that comic.

...

# Someone could publish this book, but we donít see why it should be us.

# Author is talented, but has written the wrong book.

# Itís a good book, but the house isnít going to get behind it, so if you buy it, itíll just get lost in the shuffle.

# Buy this book.I think we can all recognize a lot of PA books in that list, from every one of the described categories.

If "Buy this book" makes up 1% of the raw slush, it makes up 5% of the slush after the bottom 80% is swept away.

5% of 20,000 is 1,000. Hence, my estimate that PA has 1,000 readable titles.
That's a thousand worthwhile books lost to us, the reading public, having been doomed to oblivion by PA.
And a thousand dreams gone with the wind. :rant:

CatSlave
05-30-2007, 09:30 PM
So when my publisher arranged a radio interview on NPR last December, guess what! I did it.
Wow! Sorry I missed it. Do you have a link to an archive somewhere?
Thanks.

BlueBadger
05-30-2007, 09:49 PM
A few years back JKR did a reading as part of the annual Harbourfront Reading series in Toronto.

Kenneth Oppel, one of my favourite authors, opened that reading. He made an appearence at Yorkdale Shopping Centre a little later, but I missed it. Siiiigh...

I don't judge PA authors (or any author) by their message board posts, but I do balk at some of the freewebs pages. Not just the excerpts, either; I mean the overabundance of exclaimation marks, first person, pictures of grandkids... It's sweet, but not professional. ;)

Jersey Chick
05-30-2007, 10:01 PM
I might be paranoid, but I have a strict no-personal-information policy regarding my website and my blog. I don't mention my husband or kids by name and I would never post their pictures. I don't even have a picture of myself on either. :)

My website is a promotional tool for my books, and the same goes (mostly) for my blog. My personal life and my professional life are two separate entities and I try hard to keep it that way.

That said, I don't judge anyone by what they put up there, but sometimes I wonder if they've thought it all through very carefully. I would hate to be taken less seriously because of the content of my website - fair or not, people would judge.

BlueBadger
05-30-2007, 10:54 PM
I might be paranoid, but I have a strict no-personal-information policy regarding my website and my blog. I don't mention my husband or kids by name and I would never post their pictures. I don't even have a picture of myself on either.

When I finally get off my butt and (attempt to) publish my novel, I will enforce the very same policy. People want to know about my book. They don't care about my husband and cats.

...Okay, well, I might allow them a mention in "About the Author." ;) But it'll be in third person, I swear!

I'm less strict with blogs. The blog I have now is kind of blue in terms of language. XD

BenPanced
05-30-2007, 11:03 PM
There is also the matter of a business license for the author-bookseller. Requirements vary a lot from one jurisdiction to another, but where the rules are inclusive (Sacramento, CA, for example), one had better pay attention, as there are fines for violations. Most states have a sales tax, so if an author expects to sell more than a trivial number of books, he or she needs to do the paperwork, keep records, and pay the tax, or risk penalties.

--Ken
Yeah, the short time I had a business in Minnesota, I was required to have a tax ID number. In fact, the one event that I sold at a few times needed it when I registered for a table. AFAIK it probably wouldn't be as simple as "selling a few out of the trunk of your car" if you show up at events on a regular basis; organizers would see you and begin sniffing around, asking questions. YMM.

Jersey Chick
05-31-2007, 12:49 AM
When I finally get off my butt and (attempt to) publish my novel, I will enforce the very same policy. People want to know about my book. They don't care about my husband and cats.

...Okay, well, I might allow them a mention in "About the Author." ;) But it'll be in third person, I swear!

I'm less strict with blogs. The blog I have now is kind of blue in terms of language. XD

My bio is in first person - yikes, maybe it sounds totally stupid now - I'd better go check ;)

My blog's a lot more relaxed in what I talk about, but I still don't mention names and I don't do pictures. When people have asked me why there isn't a photo of me on my site or blog, I tell them, "I probably look better in your mind anyway." and let it go at that. :D

Sheryl Nantus
05-31-2007, 12:55 AM
My bio is in first person - yikes, maybe it sounds totally stupid now - I'd better go check ;)

My blog's a lot more relaxed in what I talk about, but I still don't mention names and I don't do pictures. When people have asked me why there isn't a photo of me on my site or blog, I tell them, "I probably look better in your mind anyway." and let it go at that. :D

I don't mind hearing a bit about the author's children, etc... but when the page is so unprofessional (like, say... being on Freewebs!) I tend to turn it right off.

For all the money PA authors are spending buying their own books you'd think a few of them would consider purchasing a domain name and putting some of that cash towards a real website. Doesn't have to be perfect, doesn't have to be that pretty... but nothing puts me off an author faster than a website name that goes on for three lines.

James D. Macdonald
05-31-2007, 01:02 AM
Y'know, when you've laid down the best part of a grand for a hundred books, then bought a pile of bookmarks, then had a bunch of postcards printed up, and you're trying to figure out how much it would cost to drive to every bookstore in the state ... well, I can see where there wouldn't be a lot of money left over for buying a domain name.

(Then, too, folks who can't tell the difference between PA and a publisher probably can't tell the difference between a custom domain name and something at geocities.)

Christine N.
05-31-2007, 01:26 AM
Actually, purchasing a domain name FROM freewebs is remarkably cheap. I don't know too much CSS and I hate writing in HTML, so I still have a freewebs-based site, and I bought my domain name from them. I think it was in the neighborhood of $15-$17/year, and I bought two years up front.

It's easy to upkeep, and FW is pretty good about adding new stuff and making things look cool.

James D. Macdonald
05-31-2007, 01:31 AM
Remember, Christine, a lot of these folks can't figure out how to make a direct link to their books at Amazon. They just post a link to Amazon's main page and tell folks to search.

I wish I could post on the PAMB to tell them how to do it.

(Yo, PA Authors: the link you want to post is http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/1234567890/ where 1234567890 is your ISBN. Or better still, get an affilliate account (free!) with Amazon and get snazzy graphics that you can cut'n'paste, find out how many people are hitting your links, and get a percentage off every sale that comes through your site.)

jamiehall
05-31-2007, 02:30 AM
Remember, Christine, a lot of these folks can't figure out how to make a direct link to their books at Amazon. They just post a link to Amazon's main page and tell folks to search.

I wish I could post on the PAMB to tell them how to do it.

(Yo, PA Authors: the link you want to post is http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/1234567890/ where 1234567890 is your ISBN. Or better still, get an affilliate account (free!) with Amazon and get snazzy graphics that you can cut'n'paste, find out how many people are hitting your links, and get a percentage off every sale that comes through your site.)

Ha! :D

100cc Plastic Buret Kit

You'd think 1234567890 would be something more profound, somehow.

jamiehall
05-31-2007, 02:34 AM
I might be paranoid, but I have a strict no-personal-information policy regarding my website and my blog. I don't mention my husband or kids by name and I would never post their pictures. I don't even have a picture of myself on either. :)


You never really know what stalkers are going to do with your personal information. Believe me, it can get bad.

Plus, pedophiles just LOVE going shopping online for kid pictures.

You don't lose anything by making your web presence professional rather than personal.

DaveKuzminski
05-31-2007, 03:13 AM
Well, so much for MNP showing up. Probably came over only to get one or two writers to apologize to her so she can then point those out to anyone leery of PA's claims that they're being picked on. I doubt that she's even interested in discussing real publishing though one would think she'd want to know more. Her writing skills can improve just as can those of anyone else willing to take the time and learn. Then publication with a reputable legitimate publisher becomes more realistic.

CatSlave
05-31-2007, 03:39 AM
Well, so much for MNP showing up. Probably came over only to get one or two writers to apologize to her so she can then point those out to anyone leery of PA's claims that they're being picked on. I doubt that she's even interested in discussing real publishing though one would think she'd want to know more. Her writing skills can improve just as can those of anyone else willing to take the time and learn. Then publication with a reputable legitimate publisher becomes more realistic.
"You barstard," she hissed.

Jersey Chick
05-31-2007, 04:59 AM
You never really know what stalkers are going to do with your personal information. Believe me, it can get bad.

Plus, pedophiles just LOVE going shopping online for kid pictures.

You don't lose anything by making your web presence professional rather than personal.

And my kids are just too adorable (nudge, nudge, wink, wink).

Seriously, when I was considering having a website designed, I tried to weigh benefit vs liability. It wasn't cheap, but I'm a computer moron, so it's a lot less dangerous for someone who knows what they're doing to do it. I consider it an investment - altho I'm not very happy with my web guy right now, so I'll be changing that part real soon.

Then again, aside from replacing computer and printer, my $$ goes towards paper and toner, not bookmarks, flyers, and gas for bookstore seiges...

PVish
05-31-2007, 05:50 AM
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21360

Let me tell you about my experience in finding Publish America...

I went to my local library to look for a publisher after I wrote my book "[Title redacted]". I put in [subject redacted] publishers...53,000 options came up! I bowed my head and prayed...Dear Lord help me find the right one, I have no idea! I opened my eyes only to see a pop up ad! (pop up ads are blocked at the library!) The ad said...We don't want your money, we only want your book! I thought Oh! Goody! I don't have any money!

I emailed them and told them how I was qualified to write such a book since [personal info redacted], I told a little about the book and myself. I checked out a book...How to get your book published. I read about a QUERY letter and found out that that was exactly what the Lord led me to send to them, I had never even heard of such a thing! Two weeks after my email to them they asked for my manuscript! Four months later I was selling my book! I sold 150 books before my official release date May 14th! Is this of God or WHAT?

I think the Author's success lies with their own effort to make it! If you have a good book and your willing to WORK! you will go far! I also think print on demand is SMART! I don't think it is being a good steward of the Lord's money to print a bunch of books only to have them rot if they don't sell! Good thinking PA!

Share how you came across PA! I would love to hear your story!


Oh, dear. This should be an interesting thread.

Jersey Chick
05-31-2007, 06:14 AM
Oh. My.

Again, words fail me:

The good about PA ...

(1) They accept most everyone who submits a lengthy manuscript . So if a person is tired of searching or doesn't want to work patiently through YEARS of agent rejection letters submitting with PA is the AMERICAN way to beat the system!

Are you kidding me????

Where did I leave my lighter - I need to set my hair on fire again...

here's the thread for your reading enjoyment:

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21148&start=15

Mel
05-31-2007, 06:27 AM
Hold off on the lighter, Jersey Chick, because this might give you a chuckle. I'm sorry, I couldn't help laughing. It's right below the one you cited.

Please help me understand. What is this Miranda Prather? Sounds like a publisher. If so, do they pay royalities like other publishing houses. Thanks.

Afinerosesheis
05-31-2007, 06:29 AM
This is the one that speaks of her husband in that pity way. She made me mad when she agreed with Frenchie that I deserved to be banned and she didn't even KNOW me!

Afinerosesheis
05-31-2007, 06:33 AM
Frenchie says-I also NEVER but never read P.A. bashing anywhere, nor do I take part along with other old authors who got banned-- and started their own board elsewhere..for as the French say-- "On ne crache pas dans la soupe!" One doesn't spit in the soup offered to you!


Still talking about me. Hee hee

CatSlave
05-31-2007, 06:38 AM
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21360

Oh, dear. This should be an interesting thread.
Coming soon to a theater near you.

James D. Macdonald
05-31-2007, 08:24 AM
I went to Scottsdale Library with my family for an exhibit they were showing. While I was there, I took my book and marketing materials with me. I spoke with the library officials about being a local author with a new book. I was told that the library only accepts books if it has been reviewed by Publisher's Weekly or Library Journal. I said I would donate the book. The library told me that if I donated it, it would still not be part of the collection and circulation. I decided against donating it. My question is has anyone gotten reviewed by those industry publications and what is the best way of getting a review.

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21344

Dear author: Yes! Two PublishAmerica books have been reviewed in Library Journal! They were Graven Images by Nancy Mehl and When You Wish Upon A Star by Nancy Marie, both reviewed in April, 2002.

I suspect that that was Library Journal giving PublishAmerica the chance it deserves.

The best way of getting a review is to have your publisher send advance reading copies months before the planned publication date.

triceretops
05-31-2007, 08:56 AM
And I too have had signings where I've only sold 1 or 2 books in the beginning.

The joke that is between my wife and I is that we go for the coffee. This is because after I figured that I make about $1.50 in royalties for each book they sell, which means that I would have to sign at least 40 books to break even. So what it comes down to after gas, posters, postage, give away items and publicity, I lose about 20 to 30 dollars a signing. That's why I've tried to keep the signings to within a certain distance from home, because if you add in hotel cost, then it becomes a very big loss. So the old saying "Don't quit your day job" very much applies. Especially now that I'm unemployed looking for a job.


Um...and they are not paying to get published. Please, author, keep the hotels out of it. You are already in the red with each signing. You, see, real publishers provide books and publicity for signings. You always do better that way.

You didn't happen to get unemployed by doing this, did you?

Tri

stormie
05-31-2007, 04:53 PM
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21360
All of those exclamation! points! that she uses in her post! Even in the middle of sentences. Achh.... And I kind of feel sorry for God. He keeps getting thanked for sending them into PA's clutches.

Stacia Kane
05-31-2007, 04:57 PM
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21360
All of those exclamation! points! that she uses in her post! Even in the middle of sentences. Achh.... And I kind of feel sorry for God. He keeps getting thanked for sending them into PA's clutches.

Or maybe he just gives really lousy business advice.


How long do you think it will be before one of the PAers try this promotion:

http://gawker.com/news/literary-hoaxes-involving-katie-holmes/how-to-market-your-self+published-book-hint-lie-264604.php

A self-pubbed author is claiming (sort of) that not only is the lead character in her book based on Katie Holmes, but that she was actually friends with Holmes and it's all true!

Groan.

Sparhawk
05-31-2007, 05:39 PM
Will God get the blame when the entire dream implodes and this poster has run up a huge credit card bill?

emsuniverse
05-31-2007, 05:43 PM
Achh.... And I kind of feel sorry for God. He keeps getting thanked for sending them into PA's clutches.

I know! It's getting ridiculous.

The lovely replies to that particular thread (bolding mine):

I found PA by surfing the net, too. I am very pleased and impressed
by the way they treat new authors. I also found out that there are
disgruntled people who are so mean-spirited that they sign our guestbooks with PA bashing.

Disgruntled? More like blinded but now they see.

I googled for publishers. PA was the first one of some 90 million choices. I do not remember who number two was. I did not look past PA.


Shame. Really. Your book may be wonderful. I don't know, I'll never get to read it, it won't be in a bookstore near me.

BenPanced
05-31-2007, 07:29 PM
I googled for publishers. PA was the first one of some 90 million choices. I do not remember who number two was. I did not look past PA.
Their first book was accepted by the first publisher they sent it to. I'm sure it happens, but it probably happens more frequently when somebody chooses PA.

jamiehall
05-31-2007, 08:19 PM
I googled for publishers. PA was the first one of some 90 million choices. I do not remember who number two was. I did not look past PA.

They are probably referring to this google search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=book+publisher&btnG=Search) which lists publishamerica.com as the second result, but I believe it used to be the first result.

If only google bombs still worked! We could google bomb "book publisher" to some major legitimate publisher instead!

Sparhawk
05-31-2007, 08:20 PM
Funny,

I just did an MSN search for "Book Publishers" and PA didn't even make the first five pages. I saw several book publishing guides and sites, I saw Harper Collins, a Random House link but nothing pertaining to PA. Maybe it was an act of God... <<Tries to keep a straight face>>... BLAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :roll: <<Failed miserably>>

DeadlyAccurate
05-31-2007, 08:28 PM
I googled for publishers. PA was the first one of some 90 million choices. I do not remember who number two was. I did not look past PA.

Is there anything else in the world that someone will spend months or years working on, only to throw it away without doing the most minimum amount of research? Did he buy the first house he saw, too, without finding out if the roof was going to cave in or the basement was going to flood? Fifty bucks says he'd think you were nuts if you said you saw an ad for a house, so you called them up and bought it, sight-unseen. Guess what? It's just as nuts to go with a publisher you've never heard of before without doing just as much research.

Christine N.
05-31-2007, 08:42 PM
I googled 'Book publishers'.

Sure enough, PA's link comes up right on top. Followed by Readers Read book publisher links, FirstWriter.com, Simon and Schuster 's "Simon Says" line, Authorhouse, and a link to a thread on this forum, then HarperCollins.

If he had bothered to go down the list just a little further he could have found the answers he was looking for.

Sparhawk
05-31-2007, 08:49 PM
EGADS !!! I just did a Google and lo and behold there was PA! Poor soul should have used the MSN search engine.

I agree, if somebody put their heart and soul into a manuscript why only stop at the first place one sees? Why not try several other entities?

There's so much info available on Publish Ameriscam right now that only minimal research is required to get the facts on Willem and company.

Jersey Chick
05-31-2007, 08:52 PM
Ah, but if he actually did the research, then he would have no excuse for ignoring the warning... wait... that's right. I forgot - all the negative is nothing but jealous, sour grapey, disgruntled, unpublished, guestbook sliming writer-wannabes.

Well.... as the sayng goes, "Ignorance is bliss." It's easier to ignore the bad if you never even see it.

Unfortunately, it could come back to bite him on the gluteus maximus...

JimmyD1318
05-31-2007, 10:06 PM
I did a Yahoo! search for book publishing. PA...right at the top!:Shrug: No wonder they get so many manuscripts. But according to Uncle Jim and others their releases per month is way down! So word is getting out and having a positive affect.

Tina
06-01-2007, 12:54 AM
Or maybe he just gives really lousy business advice.


He tries to help those that help themselves but that isn't always an apt description of PA writers.

Dancre
06-01-2007, 01:10 AM
I'm not here to answer questions about PublishAmerica or to post on that matter at all. I'm sure there are those of you who will ask question anyway or who will go on the attack. I'm also not here to attack any person or to get into petty battles. Frankly, I have no time for such things.

I did however wish to comment on posts about myself that are often outright lies or mere speculation.

Mr. McDonald, I have never once participated in what is commonly known as guestbook sliming. As I stated above, I don't have time for such actions. I'm rarely on a computer outside of work hours. Feel free to investigate the matter thoroughly. You will not find me behind any sliming instance.

I have not ridiculed any writer, either from this site or from PublishAmerica.

Furthermore, I am not a convicted felon. Not a single charge brought against me was a felony. To be a convicted felon, you had to first be charged with a felony.

For a site that likes to present itself as a bastian of truth, it would be refreshing to see you actually post facts in all cases.

Hello MNP. I am assuming you are the Miranda that runs the day to day business affairs of PA. I'm glad you are here so I can tell you I am appalled over PA's customer service and have never seen such unprofessionalism in my life. If you are the same Miranda who demands apologies from your customers who ask questions, then I must advise you, you are destroying your customer base and your company. I also find it appalling that you claim to be a traditional publisher who makes your customers buy their own books. The fact that the company hasn't been sued for false advertising is quite surprising. I suggest you start treating your customers as the head of the company instead of creating this cult like atmosphere. If you keep attacking and demanding apologies from your customers who ask simple questions, then I guarantee you will be on the unemployment line when PA goes under. It is a matter of time before PA must claim bankruptcy if you all keep going down this same track. The fact that the company only brings in 3 to 4 billion dollars a year is the first sign. The poor customer service is the second. And PA's bad reputation is the third. I hope you will decide to become professionals and act in a manner deeming as professionals instead of a cult leader. Thank you for your time.

CatSlave
06-01-2007, 03:34 AM
I am posting this for the benefit of PA lurkers who may not have seen these comments before. You AW old timers will probably want to skip this post. All comments were gleaned from the Pozkin website at http://www.freewebs.com/pozkin/paprpublicspectacle.htm

Please note these are from one website only. There's plenty more where this came from. Google "publishamerica scam" and make up your own mind before signing any contracts with PA.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Originally posted two days ago by MNP (supposedly Miranda Prather):
I have not ridiculed any writer, either from this site or from PublishAmerica.

Infocenter Administrator:
Aahh, urban legends... Some ignorant idiot somewhere on the internet invented a problem, other idiots gave the rumor legs, and lo and behold, "Ingram is going to refuse to fulfill orders". What nonsense.

PAMB author: Big thumbs up on calling one of your authors an ignorant idiot.

Infocenter Administrator:
That's exactly right, J--- -----, and it would have behooved you and others last night to consider this, instead of jumping to conclusions and posting totally over the edge comments, and turning outrageous fiction into fact. We can say this politely, or we can say this bluntly, and here we choose the latter: you were perpetuating malicious nonsense, and we had no choice but shutting you up. Plain and simple.

When we see feeding frenzies, we step in. If -------- does not like that, so be it. We don't ban people because they ask questions. We ban them because they go ape. This doesn't happen too often, but when it happens we do bring order to the zoo.

PAMB author: How interesting to know that is how we're looked at, like animals in a zoo. Thanks Infocenter, for yet another rude response. I am so outta here.

Infocenter Administrator:
Your tone is totally inappropriate. You do not have the right to "rescind", "sever", or "dissolve" anything, and your "legal notice" is not legal at all, and is denied. Please see an attorney for clarification of contract items that you obviously do not understand.

If you have any reason for your request, please state it coherently.

Your misconceptions are so easy to contradict that your case has been given to Author Support.

Please do not address us in such a tone. Your facts are wrong, your insinuations are wrong, and you are wasting your and our time.

You lose credibility by using words like "deny." Listen carefully: PublishAmerica has never changed it's name. PublishAmerica has always been PublishAmerica from day one. PublishAmerica has never had any credible "complaints rolling in."

No, no one is "deceitful" at all. Funny that we've never had any credible complaint from anyone feeling deceived. What we do have is 5,000 very happy authors in print who do not feel at all deceived.

You're making a spectacle of yourself with this sort of language.

Your attorney's arguments will probably not be considered by us. Your request is denied. We will agree to revisit your request six months from now. Please contact us again at that time. Also, please consider this our final word on this issue. Any further correspondence from you will be discarded unread.

No, your contract "plainly states" no such thing. Please read the contract before stating such nonsense. We will expect your apology.

Please consult someone capable of understanding the contract prior to sending us such nonsense.

Unless we receive an apology for such pathetic behavior, this will be our last communication with you on this matter. Further such messages will be deleted unread.

Do not address us in such a tone. Your message did not reach any of the intended recipients. The content of your message is emotional, false, and very bizarre.

Again, the content of your message is emotional, false, and very bizarre. Please consult legal counsel for advice prior to sending us messages with excitement and emotion. No one has sent you anything harassing from here. Perhaps the message to which you refer originated from elsewhere.

So, Miranda, if you did not write these, who did?

Dancre
06-01-2007, 04:10 AM
I am posting this for the benefit of PA lurkers who may not have seen these comments before. You AW old timers will probably want to skip this post. All comments were gleaned from the Pozkin website at http://www.freewebs.com/pozkin/paprpublicspectacle.htm

Please note these are from one website only. There's plenty more where this came from. Google "publishamerica scam" and make up your own mind before signing any contracts with PA.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Originally posted two days ago by MNP (supposedly Miranda Prather):
I have not ridiculed any writer, either from this site or from PublishAmerica.

Infocenter Administrator:
Aahh, urban legends... Some ignorant idiot somewhere on the internet invented a problem, other idiots gave the rumor legs, and lo and behold, "Ingram is going to refuse to fulfill orders". What nonsense.

PAMB author: Big thumbs up on calling one of your authors an ignorant idiot.

Infocenter Administrator:
That's exactly right, J--- -----, and it would have behooved you and others last night to consider this, instead of jumping to conclusions and posting totally over the edge comments, and turning outrageous fiction into fact. We can say this politely, or we can say this bluntly, and here we choose the latter: you were perpetuating malicious nonsense, and we had no choice but shutting you up. Plain and simple.

When we see feeding frenzies, we step in. If -------- does not like that, so be it. We don't ban people because they ask questions. We ban them because they go ape. This doesn't happen too often, but when it happens we do bring order to the zoo.

PAMB author: How interesting to know that is how we're looked at, like animals in a zoo. Thanks Infocenter, for yet another rude response. I am so outta here.

Infocenter Administrator:
Your tone is totally inappropriate. You do not have the right to "rescind", "sever", or "dissolve" anything, and your "legal notice" is not legal at all, and is denied. Please see an attorney for clarification of contract items that you obviously do not understand.

If you have any reason for your request, please state it coherently.

Your misconceptions are so easy to contradict that your case has been given to Author Support.

Please do not address us in such a tone. Your facts are wrong, your insinuations are wrong, and you are wasting your and our time.

You lose credibility by using words like "deny." Listen carefully: PublishAmerica has never changed it's name. PublishAmerica has always been PublishAmerica from day one. PublishAmerica has never had any credible "complaints rolling in."

No, no one is "deceitful" at all. Funny that we've never had any credible complaint from anyone feeling deceived. What we do have is 5,000 very happy authors in print who do not feel at all deceived.

You're making a spectacle of yourself with this sort of language.

Your attorney's arguments will probably not be considered by us. Your request is denied. We will agree to revisit your request six months from now. Please contact us again at that time. Also, please consider this our final word on this issue. Any further correspondence from you will be discarded unread.

No, your contract "plainly states" no such thing. Please read the contract before stating such nonsense. We will expect your apology.

Please consult someone capable of understanding the contract prior to sending us such nonsense.

Unless we receive an apology for such pathetic behavior, this will be our last communication with you on this matter. Further such messages will be deleted unread.

Do not address us in such a tone. Your message did not reach any of the intended recipients. The content of your message is emotional, false, and very bizarre.

Again, the content of your message is emotional, false, and very bizarre. Please consult legal counsel for advice prior to sending us messages with excitement and emotion. No one has sent you anything harassing from here. Perhaps the message to which you refer originated from elsewhere.

So, Miranda, if you did not write these, who did?

I'm thinking of printing this out so we can use this as an example of what NOT to say to a CLIENT!! Geesh!!! Miranda, you're driving your business in the ground. This "We are god, you are our peasants" is just plain sad.

kim

Jersey Chick
06-01-2007, 04:14 AM
How rotten would she (assuming she did write this garbage) have to feel about herself in order to attack people this way? It would be pathetic if it wasn't so infuriating.

BlueBadger
06-01-2007, 05:29 AM
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21360



Oh, dear. This should be an interesting thread.

How does that Depeche Mode song go? "I don't want to start any blasphemous rumours, but I think that God's got a sick sense of humour..."

Komnena
06-01-2007, 04:52 PM
I see now what Beebomb meant when she said the infotyrant response to Sackville was mild. I am really glad I learned my lesson about PA as cheaply as I did. I can only imagine what it would be like having my dreams that thoroughly busted. At least with the hobby vanity magazine my husband and I send out to penfriends we give back the rights to any contributions we get after the issue comes out. At most people have paid only the postage of sending us material, nor do we describe ourselves as a paying market.
Komnena

James D. Macdonald
06-01-2007, 05:08 PM
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21360
All of those exclamation! points! that she uses in her post! Even in the middle of sentences. Achh.... And I kind of feel sorry for God. He keeps getting thanked for sending them into PA's clutches.

I think we could all back off on the lady herself a bit. She's young, she's enthusiastic, and she's naive. None of those are hanging offenses. The day will come (remember the reality check and the royalty check arrive in the same envelope) when she's looking to find out what happened to her, and she'll come here.

I don't want her to find a pile of messages mocking her. She'll need comfort on that day.

We can talk about PA, and we can respectfully correct some of the odd opinions about publishing that some folks have (nor are those opinions limited to PAMB posters!) but it isn't open season on the lady herself.

Jersey Chick
06-01-2007, 08:55 PM
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21360

Has anyone else noticed there is relatively little rah-rah, go PA, go! on this thread??? I thought there'd be a lot more response. Go figure.

stormie
06-01-2007, 09:25 PM
I think we could all back off on the lady herself a bit. She's young, she's enthusiastic, and she's naive. .... I don't want her to find a pile of messages mocking her. She'll need comfort on that day.

We can talk about PA, and we can respectfully correct some of the odd opinions about publishing that some folks have (nor are those opinions limited to PAMB posters!) but it isn't open season on the lady herself.
You're right, Uncle Jim, but I got the impression from reading her past posts, that she isn't that young. Naive, yes. I could be wrong, but I think she's been with PA for awhile. Anyway, I agree: it isn't open season on just one person. I apologize for starting it.

CatSlave
06-01-2007, 09:35 PM
I see now what Beebomb meant when she said the infotyrant response to Sackville was mild. I am really glad I learned my lesson about PA as cheaply as I did. I can only imagine what it would be like having my dreams that thoroughly busted. At least with the hobby vanity magazine my husband and I send out to penfriends we give back the rights to any contributions we get after the issue comes out. At most people have paid only the postage of sending us material, nor do we describe ourselves as a paying market.
Komnena
That sounds like a fun and harmless way to see your words in print, and have something in hand to show your friends and family.

Marie Pacha
06-01-2007, 09:38 PM
This is the tone letter (the worst one) that I received. I have blanked out portions of it that are specifically relevant to one of my disputes.

Ms. Pacha,

There are certain simple rules of decency that civil people follow when they communicate, and you have abided by none.
Instead, you opt to make outrageous allegations brimming with falsehoods, XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, and stoop to lows that we have not seen before in our more than seven years of working with more than twenty thousand happy authors. You ought to be deeply ashamed of yourself.
We have courteously reminded you of your right to come and visit our office and inspect all relevant sales records, in accordance with Par. 12 of your contract, yet you insist that PublishAmerica "might not want their books audited." The truth is that we welcome your audit, as we welcome any author's audit. We also insist on receiving your apology for your beyond-offensive attitude.
We have checked and double-checked our records, and we have found no payment from wholesaler Ingram, who represents all Borders sales, in all of 2006, your sales slip copy (which mentions no ISBN, only the word "Pawnshop" which features in the titles of 48 published products on the U.S. market) notwithstanding. It is entirely possible that Ingram sold a copy of your book to Borders that had been stocked by them previously, in which case it had been paid for as early as in 2004 if and when they stocked it, and you would have received your royalties on that sale back then. Either way, no royalty payments on your book were due to you now or in 2006, simply because PublishAmerica never received any money from any vendor during that period. As far as we are concerned, no sale where money changed hands took place on or around the date that is featured on the sales slip that you produced.
Also, royalty statements have been rendered and forwarded to you each time they were due, timely and promptly, to your Tipton, Iowa address, as the copies that we keep show. For you to accuse us of the contrary is shameless and irresponsible.
You are herewith put on notice that no more email messages or phone calls from you will be accepted until you apologize for your attitude. Pending your apology, do not email or call us again. Your failure to abide by this instruction will be considered harassment and reported to your local law enforcement agencies without delay.
As for your XXXXXXXXXXX: make our day!

Thank you,
PublishAmerica Support
support@publishamerica.com


By the way I am prepared to prove all of my allegations; and a few more at my arbitration, and there's not one falsehood among them.

Sparhawk
06-01-2007, 09:47 PM
Wow!!

That's as bad as some of the tone letters I've saved. Ahh sweet memories of battling with Author Abuse and Miranda et al. Ahh, I'm so glad I'm out of that septic publishing firm

James D. Macdonald
06-01-2007, 10:07 PM
I'm told that all the tone letters are written by either Miranda or Larry personally.

Marie Pacha
06-01-2007, 10:07 PM
I not only have the sales slip for that purchase, I have the order form which lists the ISBN number, the full title and the author's name (mine), and I have a witness who will appear in person. I have more than that as well.

And I get more info in daily to substantiate my "allegations".

Jersey Chick
06-01-2007, 10:17 PM
Oh. My. God.

I was seeing shades of red - how did your head not explode??

What sort of professional organization demands an apology? And in such a demeaning and insulting manner?

I guess you must've forged that sales slip, eh?

And I'll bet you're just racing to write them an apology.

You've got to be kidding me. I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen it with me own eyes! :)

Marie Pacha
06-01-2007, 10:23 PM
One would certainly hope that someone with some authority would be writing a letter like that; although who ever wrote it seems to be somewhat of a loose cannon.

And for the record Clause 12 of my contract(s) does not state I have to appear at their offices to view their records. It simply states at my cost, and I would have paid for copies of their records; OR they could have sent a digital copy which wouldn't have cost a penny.

I have submitted my list of arbitrators with my selections to the American Arbitration Association. Hopefully the process will move into high gear.

Marie

VGrossack
06-01-2007, 10:25 PM
Wow! What a tone letter!

I really dislike them continuing to say that they have 20,000 "happy authors". I consider that false advertising. They may have had 20,000 authors (although some have left) but how can they say that they are happy? What does happy mean? It would be interesting to do a survey of PA authors who have had books out for say, more than 2 years, and to determine the actual level of satisfaction.

I've had my own royalty issues with PA - their fault, and they admit it, but boy, have they done everything wrong in resolving them. I've rarely encountered such levels of incompetence. I think the problems may be resolved at last, though. I understand that a new check has arrived but because I've been traveling I haven't actually seen it.

CatSlave
06-01-2007, 10:31 PM
I'm told that all the tone letters are written by either Miranda or Larry personally.
Well, there are only the three of them that could write them: Miranda, Larry and Willem. I doubt Willem would dirty his hands at the combat level; he's too busy playing the philanthopist/philosopher game to sully himself. That leaves Miranda and Larry. Take your pick. My guess is probably both, depending who's minding the store at the moment.

CatSlave
06-01-2007, 10:33 PM
Wow! What a tone letter!

I really dislike them continuing to say that they have 20,000 "happy authors". I consider that false advertising. They may have had 20,000 authors (although some have left) but how can they say that they are happy? What does happy mean? It would be interesting to do a survey of PA authors who have had books out for say, more than 2 years, and to determine the actual level of satisfaction.

I've had my own royalty issues with PA - their fault, and they admit it, but boy, have they done everything wrong in resolving them. I've rarely encountered such levels of incompetence. I think it may be resolved at last, though.
I would love to re-interview the 200 authors that were the basis of the "200 Happy Authors" book written a couple of years ago. It seems to have disappeared into oblivion, not surprisingly.

Marie Pacha
06-01-2007, 10:37 PM
A portion of my response to them:

I'm so sorry if I offended you. I believe that constitutes the apology you are requesting.

Rules of decency? I asked a question two days ago, and was put off repeatedly. I have saved copies of our email correspondence, and copied them; not to mentioned saved them online on AOL. Those will prove that I have not altered any of them in anyway.

Paragraph 12 of my contract does NOT state that the review of my account has to be done in your office. Please reread it thoroughly.

If your records do not show a payment for this book perhaps it is because your bookkeeping is inaccurate, we'll find out. And by the way...Ingrams does list a sale of that book in their 2006 sales. I checked that too.

Thank you for what you say is your final correspondence...As a writer I feel I have an obligation to present the truth to the public. But I haven't done so; instead I have opted to proceed with established methods of dispute resolution. I have the forms here for the Consumer Protection Division. I have spent most of the day gathering relevant documents and waiting for Gail in your royalty department to call me back as she promised. Instead I received this email from you...Since we have a contractural agreement I doubt any rational law enforcement official would consider that my attempts to rectify this issue would be considered harassment. Especially since both the Sheriff and the Chief of Police know me personally. Indeed when I show them the copy of your email I can include them in my witness list. Your attempts to intimidate your authors in this manner have already been documented on the Internet as well; almost word for word as your letter. I'll submit a copy of that information to the Consumer Protection Division along with my complaint form.

***
There are some typos in that correspondence to them, I was pretty upset when I wrote it. And at the time I wrote it I had not read my contract carefully, and I didn't realize I had to go through the AAA. Obviously I figured that out in the interim!