PAMB and its quotes

spike · Apr 3, 2007

Not going to last

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=20531

I have been with this company since 2004. They are not a, "traditional" publisher as self described. They are in fact a POD (Print On Demand). This is one falsehood.
They assured me that my book would be available through all the brick and mortar bookstores, all the big named chains all over the world. I have never been able to get a big brick and mortar chain store to stock my book. They will not stock a PublishAmerica book. I have also contacted the company numerous times and was told that my book doesn't have enough words to be put on a bookstore shelf. Does that make any sense to you? Doesn't to me. This was Falsehood number 2.
They assured me that my book would be widely publicized. It was not. They did send out smudged 8.5" x 11" photo copied on typing paper purchase slips to my friends. This was most embarrassing. I would not order from a such an unproffessional mailer. I had to contact my local hometown newspaper myself and write my own article about my book. Lucky for me I knew the owner of the paper, or I never would've had any kind of publicity. This was Falsehood number 3.
They have listed on the Better Business Bereau site that their customer contact is: Ms. Miranda Prather, Exec. Director - (#######. They also state on their own website: Phone: #######- Monday - Friday, 8:30am - 5pm, EST. If you leave a message, your call will be returned in the order it was received. Please keep in mind, we get hundreds of phone calls each day. Yet, I have called repeatedly and have left message after message about this, and have never received a call back. Not good customer service towards a client. Especially as I have been very nice every time I have called, and have been hung up on repeatedly. They won't let me speak to a manager, or Ms. Prather, or even the owner of the company, Mr. Willem Meiners. I have been told they don't have phones in their offices. I have been told that they don't take calls. I have to email them. This doesn't work, either. Once, I was told I could be put through to the manager, but, when asked who was calling, they hung up on me again. This was Falsehood number 4.
I have researched PublishAmerica on the internet in great detail. There are websites in great numbers with information about authors suing for the right to terminate their contracts with this company for failing to comply with the terms they, themselves, put forth.
I want my contract with PublishAmerica terminated. I never want to have anything to do with this company ever again. I want to forget they even exist.
I am currently in the process of working with Free Legal Aide, who will provide a free attorney from the State Department to help me end this nightmare.
I have also filed a complete report with the Better Business Bereau. If you haven't checked on PublishAmerica through them yet, it would be advisable. You will see how they do business.
I only want what is rightfully mine returned to me. My work. I wrote it, illustrated it, and devoted hours and hours of my time to my creation. It is mine and no one else's. I want my contract terminated.
Christopher Tyner, author, "I'll Do It Tommarra Laura"Back to top

CatSlave · Apr 3, 2007

You Go, Christopher!

What a shame, but hardly a surprise.
Christopher posted his message on ALL the PAMB threads. Good for him! I hope plenty of people will see it before the Infomanipulator disappears his messages.

Christopher, if you find your way to the AW forum, I would like to say :welcome:

brianm · Apr 3, 2007

What’s sad is the response to this posting from a newbie to PAMB.

The 'problems' you mention all relate to what happens at the beginning of the process, and not three years down the road.

'Print-On-Demand' refers to the technology used to produce stock. It makes sense to me to only produce books as they are needed, especially if the company is assuming all financial risk in making the book available.

I'm no going to go on, but I am new to this process and my book 'Episodes and Interludes' is just coming on-line. This being said, I am quite pleased with the services I have received and I realize that my book's success depends more on what I do than it does on what PublishAmerica does. I kind of like having some control over my own destiny.

I too have read those web pages, but I based my decision to go with PublishAmerica more on what authors here said and the fact that I was out no cahs whatsoever. I appreciate the chance I have been given and the investment being made on my behalf and am doing my best to succeed.

Thinking that it is the job of a writer to promote and sell his book, and not the publisher’s, is his first mistake. Basing his opinion of PA off the regulated and censored PA message board is his second mistake.

This thread won’t last long. I made a screen shot of it in case the OP should need it in the future.

Better get out another chair and put on the coffee.

zizban · Apr 3, 2007

James D. Macdonald · Apr 3, 2007

I'm no going to go on, but I am new to this process and my book 'Episodes and Interludes' is just coming on-line.

Give it a year, my friend. You'll be singing the same song.

I realize that my book's success depends more on what I do than it does on what PublishAmerica does.

Your book's failure will depend more on what PublishAmerica does than what you do.

I too have read those web pages, but I based my decision to go with PublishAmerica more on what authors here said and the fact that I was out no cahs whatsoever.

Haven't bought any copies of your own book? Didn't make any flyers or bookmarks? No tablecloth? Didn't have to register your own copyright? If not -- why are you saying you aren't out any cash?

James D. Macdonald · Apr 3, 2007

Another response to Christopher's all-channel blast:

Good luck to you, fella. Fortunately, most of us are happy with our association with PA, and while we know there are a few like you, we have no wish to get out of our contracts. Not only that, but most of us reccommend PA to our writer friends.

Maybe you will be one of the lucky ones and get your book published by another company, and maybe not. Either way, I wish you the best.

A few ... thousand ... like you.

brianm · Apr 3, 2007

And now a response from one of the staunch supporters of PA.

And you felt the need to post this on more than one thread? Why? Did you think that one thread wouldn't hold all of the info you wanted to get out? Wait, that can't be it, because this is a copy of the other post.

I'm truly sorry you had a bad experience with PA, but most of us here have heard this story before and we don't pay it a lot of attention.

Good luck to you, and I hope you get your contract back soon, but making a bad attempt to bash PA on this message board will not help you do that.

The OP posted the same thread in all seven forums on PAMB. The PA infomonster will be busy deleting these threads. Perhaps, some PA lurkers who haven’t made up their minds will see it and think twice about signing with this scam company.

The OP signed on with PA in 2004. You would think some of the PA members would glean a wee bit of insight from his posting. They won’t. They will continue making flyers, magnets, aprons, T-shirts, car door signs, lollipop trees, and all the necessary marketing tools needed to become a successful writer. They won’t work on honing their writing skills, because we all know that has nothing to do with becoming a successful writer. It’s all about those lollipop trees.

MMo · Apr 3, 2007

brianm said:
And now a response from one of the staunch supporters of PA.

And now it's gone -- Poof!

Perhaps if Infocenter had been as prompt answering the OP's phone calls and messages, they wouldn't have had to bestir themselves so fast today.

Mo

brianm · Apr 3, 2007

The postings lasted sixty-six minutes. A new record? Infomonster must have been out to lunch.

ResearchGuy · Apr 3, 2007

brianm said:
. . . Thinking that it is the job of a writer to promote and sell his book, and not the publisher’s, is his first mistake. . . .

You might want to offer a guess at this thread: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59828

--Ken

jamiehall · Apr 3, 2007

brianm said:
You would think some of the PA members would glean a wee bit of insight from his posting. They won’t. They will continue making flyers, magnets, aprons, T-shirts, car door signs, lollipop trees, and all the necessary marketing tools needed to become a successful writer. They won’t work on honing their writing skills, because we all know that has nothing to do with becoming a successful writer. It’s all about those lollipop trees.

Lollipop... :roll:

trees....

ahhhhhhhh!

James D. Macdonald · Apr 3, 2007

Writers need to take care of themselves and do whatever is necessary to promote themselves and their books.

That isn't the same thing as "Promotion and marketing aren't part of the publisher's job," now, is it?

brianm · Apr 3, 2007

ResearchGuy said:
You might want to offer a guess at this thread: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59828

--Ken

The quote is from Publishers Weekly's "Talk Back" section.

I agree that writers need to take care of themselves and do whatever it takes to promote themselves. That has always been true in any of the arts. That doesn't mean you as the writer should be solely responsible for all promotion and publicity.

There is a big difference between promoting yourself when a respected commercial publisher is also promoting you, and promoting yourself completely on your own when you are with a publisher who has placed every possible barricade in front of you, making it nearly impossible for you to sell your book. Except to your family and friends.

Jersey Chick · Apr 3, 2007

I wonder how many times the staunch supporters would have to hear that same story (from many different people) before it sets off any bells? Oh, to be a fly on the wall when that light bulb goes off...

brianm · Apr 3, 2007

Jersey Chick said:
I wonder how many times the staunch supporters would have to hear that same story (from many different people) before it sets off any bells? Oh, to be a fly on the wall when that light bulb goes off...

For at least two of the old timers the light bulb went off a long time ago. The French woman and the pipe smoker have both said they know what PA offers is not the way to become successful in the writing game. They want PA to stay around because it fulfills them during their twilight years. It's their Moose Lodge, Lady's Bridge Club, Senior Center, whatever, all rolled into one activity. It makes them feel useful and important, and they guard their PAMB territory zealously.

Too bad they don’t realize the damage their support of PA causes aspiring writers. On the other hand, maybe they do, but they would be lost without PA and PAMB.

DaveKuzminski · Apr 3, 2007

For those two, I suspect the PAMB is the only place where they can be seen as experts by others. In a real author's forum, they'd find themselves constantly learning because everyone else would know more and newbies would be listening to those others who actually know more instead of them. Consequently, they've sold their integrity to PA.

James D. Macdonald · Apr 3, 2007

For the folks who are wondering what the "lollipop tree" references are all about, it's this pair of messages on the PAMB from one of their very, very, very happy authors:

For all those opinions out there...I have a question.

I have an upcoming book signing on the 31st of March. I thought that maybe I could buy some of those yummy iced cookies and maybe have a lollipop tree. Do you all think that's too much? I figure free treats are the way to attract people. I also have some business cards to give out and for all those who buy a book, I will add a fridge magnet.

Opinions?

Thanks a million!

and its followup:

I had my book signing and it went really well. The news was there and even though it was brief, I was on the 11 PM news. They annoucned I had sold out in the first half hour, which I did. I brought two very large trays of iced cookies and make word scramble sheets pertaining to my book. I made a lollipop tree, magnets and made up flyers to hand out. I sent all the Peach Street Characters (in which they all wore T shirts to identify themselves) outside of the store to hand out my flyers.

I had a great time.

This is why I sold out...I found out the manager had only ordered 15 books, because Ingrams has Publishamerica marked as "unreturnable" and POD.
Of course I immediately and nicely explained that they ARE retunrable. I said that Ingram may not have that in their system yet and that I think in January they became "returnable". I really didn't know how to explain that. Anyone run into this this little problem?

Just wondering

Her royalties, if PA ever gets around to paying them, for that afternoon will be $9.33.

Rolling Thunder · Apr 3, 2007

brianm said:
For at least two of the old timers the light bulb went off a long time ago. The French woman and the pipe smoker have both said they know what PA offers is not the way to become successful in the writing game. They want PA to stay around because it fulfills them during their twilight years. It's their Moose Lodge, Lady's Bridge Club, Senior Center, whatever, all rolled into one activity. It makes them feel useful and important, and they guard their PAMB territory zealously.

Too bad they don’t realize the damage their support of PA causes aspiring writers. On the other hand, maybe they do, but they would be lost without PA and PAMB.

Pipesmoker is the one who made the comment (on another board) I previously posted here:
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1240063&postcount=942

The more I look around the web the more I see how many hard-line PA cheerleaders are saying the same thing. The usual argument is;

PA is a POD, which means 'Print on demand.'

The majority of replies are from wiser people: "Then why is it called PUBLISHAmerica? And why do you call yourself a published, not printed, author?"

They defend themselves by saying they never wanted to be highly successful writers, selling thousands or more books; they only wanted a nice coffee table book or a keepsake (which anyone can tell by their defense that isn't what they started out to achieve).

Anyhow. Okay, so be it; to each his own....just stop telling the new people, who want to be successful writers, that PA is the first step to success.

It isn't. It never will be. It's a vanity press, plain and simple.

Jersey Chick · Apr 3, 2007

brianm said:
For at least two of the old timers the light bulb went off a long time ago. The French woman and the pipe smoker have both said they know what PA offers is not the way to become successful in the writing game. They want PA to stay around because it fulfills them during their twilight years. It's their Moose Lodge, Lady's Bridge Club, Senior Center, whatever, all rolled into one activity. It makes them feel useful and important, and they guard their PAMB territory zealously.

Too bad they don’t realize the damage their support of PA causes aspiring writers. On the other hand, maybe they do, but they would be lost without PA and PAMB.

It would be sad, if they didn't damage anyone else's career in the process. Of course, with all the information out there, I don't suppose any one of them can say, "But I never knew..."

Well, they could, but it would be because of their own state of denial, or whatever you'd want to call it.

ResearchGuy · Apr 3, 2007

brianm said:
The quote is from Publishers Weekly's "Talk Back" section. . . .

That is not the original source. But that is what you would find if you merely Googled it.

Anyway, I made a new thread for that particular question, and kinda hope folks will play fair.

--Ken

James D. Macdonald · Apr 3, 2007

How to Make a Lollipop Tree .

spike · Apr 3, 2007

ResearchGuy said:
That is not the original source. But that is what you would find if you merely Googled it.

Anyway, I made a new thread for that particular question, and kinda hope folks will play fair.

--Ken

There is a major difference between saying that authors should promote when their books have already been marketed and are on the bookshelves and a PA author who is begging stores to stock their books.

Reputable publishers market and authors promote. PA leaves all that to the author.

Tina · Apr 4, 2007

Picturesque?

HapiSofi said:
Four-color printing? In quantity? On their own presses?

That's not like them. Why would they want to own their own setup? Four-color printing is complex and expensive, you need trained staff to run the system, and the machinery's prone to break down. Also, if they aren't running a bindery line, they'll have to be shipping cartons of printed sheets to a bindery, which is a big headache.

It makes far more sense to cut a deal with a color printer in the Far East. It adds shipping time to your production cycle, and you can't send an employee down to the plant to check the color balance, but it's the sensible, economical way to go.

The only other way I can imagine them handling four-color printing would be to lease a color copier and charge their clients through the nose.

Why do I get a feeling these picture books are going to be $&*(@_* ugly?

JimmyD1318 · Apr 4, 2007

Tina said:
Why do I get a feeling these picture books are going to be $&*(@_* ugly?

"$&*(@_*" meaning really crappy? I'd be willing to bet my paycheck on it!

James D. Macdonald · Apr 4, 2007

Some of the picture books might be charming. It depends on the talent of the author and illustrator.

What remains to be seen is how good the color repro will be.

Price also remains to be seen.

Discount, distribution, marketing, and promotion -- will all be left out.

PAMB and its quotes

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Mah tale iz draggin.

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