PAMB and its quotes
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Thank you CaoPaux, I for one did not know that.
I have passed up submissions because I thought I needed an agent. Goes to show, you learn something on this board everyday.I like how they asked people to comment on it. Wonder what they'll say? Sour grapes?That should disappear soon.
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You know if it stays up long enough to be read, the response will be we are the bad people. PA authors will be warned to stay away.
What bothers me is, the OP lists WritersDigest as one of his favorite links. Search their site and look at all the PA warnings. Incredible.
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I'm not 100% thrilled with the idea of writing to (or posting in the guestbooks of) PA authors, unless you're already a personal friend.
Folks react, predictably, badly to a stranger coming up and raining on their parade. It hardens their attitudes and makes us their enemies, even if what we say is 100% true.
PA authors have already made their decisions. Later on, when the reality of the situation starts to seep in, let them search for the truth. We'll be here. Meanwhile, the main effort should be toward educating the people who haven't yet signed up with PA.
Folks react, predictably, badly to a stranger coming up and raining on their parade. It hardens their attitudes and makes us their enemies, even if what we say is 100% true.
PA authors have already made their decisions. Later on, when the reality of the situation starts to seep in, let them search for the truth. We'll be here. Meanwhile, the main effort should be toward educating the people who haven't yet signed up with PA.
Most of the PA authors I spoke with were via email, or myspace...or writing forums. I think I persuaded possibly two-four pa writers here. I see they still post here too.
I know one woman who asked me would I ever buy her PA book. I said no, that not many other writers would do so either, she became a bit upset and wanted to know why...
I still talk to her on my yahoo and myspace...so I earned a friend out of it.
I still talk to her on my yahoo and myspace...so I earned a friend out of it.
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Someone told me last week I should be spending my time going to PA member's websites and warning them about PA. I said I wasn't fond of that idea because I consider their web page their home, and unless they invite me into their home for a chat, I won't intrude.
What was left out of this post was this...
Post subject: Screwed????That's what someone left in
my guestbook. They also left
this link:
http://homepage.mac.com/zizban/pa.html
I am new here and am excited about
this opportunity.
Will someone comment on this link?
Telling someone they are screwed on their own web page isn't, IMO, the way to convince that person that what you are telling them is true.
Think how you would feel if someone came to your web page and said you were screwed because you were a member of AW. It would upset me, and I wouldn't be very fond of that person.
That thread got blasted by the PA infocenter but not before the original poster asked why people are so anti-PA. Since he is trying to understand the why of it then perhaps he will do research and find the answer to his question. He sure won't get the answers on the PA message board
That is exactly how I felt, too.
I don't remember how I was when I first signed up here, but I know I left the PAMB for a long time and even left NEPAT. It's disheartening beyond belief I'm sure. I hope they don't take it to heart and feel they cannot get over it. What if someone posted on someones site like that and they turn around and kill themselves? That would be forever on my mind and I'd feel overwhelmed with guilt. That is why I stopped telling people out right they made a mistake. I tell them to try coming to P&E and AW and a few other sites. My posts from here have made the PAMB though, that is what I meant by the post.
zizban
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Wow, I made the PAMB!
Note, I didn't put anything on peoples' guestbooks. I found it to be counterproductive. My anti-PA website has been around for a while. It's even in the Wikipedia PA page's link section so its no secret.
Note, I didn't put anything on peoples' guestbooks. I found it to be counterproductive. My anti-PA website has been around for a while. It's even in the Wikipedia PA page's link section so its no secret.
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One of my finest hours was when someone reprinted this song on the PAMB and it stayed up for several days before InfoDump noticed it and deleted it:
The devil went down to Georgia
He was lookin' for books to score:
He'd done eighty that week,
He was startin' to freak,
And he needed to publish more.
When he came on a young man typing
A novel of thunder and blood,
The devil jumped up on a DocuTech
And said "Hey listen, Bud --
"I bet you didn't know it,
But I'm a writer too.
Now you're in luck
'Cause I'll give you a buck;
I've published quite a few.
Now you've writ' a pretty good novel, son,
But give the devil his due,
You grant your soul for seven years
And I will publish you."
The boy said, "My name's Travis,
And it might not be a crime,
But your contract stinks
Like everyone thinks
And you'll get pickled this time."
Now Travis get your keyboard out
And type from morn to night
'Cause Hell's broke loose in Georgia
And the devil's in the fight.
And if you win all you get's Miranda's dirty look,
But if you lose the devil gets your book.
The devil pulled his webpage up
And gave a little nod,
And fire flew from his fingertips
As he posted "Not a POD."
He posted "Keep your copyright"
And "custom cover design"
Then a chorus of demons howled out
"We edit line by line!"
[instrumental break]
When the devil finished
Travis said, "You talk real swell
But sit down on your disparagement clause,
An' I'll show you writin' hell."
Call me Ishmael, dark and stormy night,
Whan that Aprille, I see as from a height,
Hear Me O Muse, midway in our life's journey,
It was a queer sultry summer I apprenticed to an attorney.
[instrumental break]
The devil bowed his head
Because he knew he'd been had,
And he trudged back to Maryland
Looking pale and sad.
Travis said, "Devil, come on back,
Any time you're feeling blue,
You'll get pickled every time
'Cause you know I'm better'n you."
He wrote:
Call me Ishmael, dark and stormy night,
Whan that Aprille, I see as from a height,
Hear Me O Muse, midway in our life's journey,
It was a queer sultry summer I apprenticed to an attorney.
He was lookin' for books to score:
He'd done eighty that week,
He was startin' to freak,
And he needed to publish more.
When he came on a young man typing
A novel of thunder and blood,
The devil jumped up on a DocuTech
And said "Hey listen, Bud --
"I bet you didn't know it,
But I'm a writer too.
Now you're in luck
'Cause I'll give you a buck;
I've published quite a few.
Now you've writ' a pretty good novel, son,
But give the devil his due,
You grant your soul for seven years
And I will publish you."
The boy said, "My name's Travis,
And it might not be a crime,
But your contract stinks
Like everyone thinks
And you'll get pickled this time."
Now Travis get your keyboard out
And type from morn to night
'Cause Hell's broke loose in Georgia
And the devil's in the fight.
And if you win all you get's Miranda's dirty look,
But if you lose the devil gets your book.
The devil pulled his webpage up
And gave a little nod,
And fire flew from his fingertips
As he posted "Not a POD."
He posted "Keep your copyright"
And "custom cover design"
Then a chorus of demons howled out
"We edit line by line!"
[instrumental break]
When the devil finished
Travis said, "You talk real swell
But sit down on your disparagement clause,
An' I'll show you writin' hell."
Call me Ishmael, dark and stormy night,
Whan that Aprille, I see as from a height,
Hear Me O Muse, midway in our life's journey,
It was a queer sultry summer I apprenticed to an attorney.
[instrumental break]
The devil bowed his head
Because he knew he'd been had,
And he trudged back to Maryland
Looking pale and sad.
Travis said, "Devil, come on back,
Any time you're feeling blue,
You'll get pickled every time
'Cause you know I'm better'n you."
He wrote:
Call me Ishmael, dark and stormy night,
Whan that Aprille, I see as from a height,
Hear Me O Muse, midway in our life's journey,
It was a queer sultry summer I apprenticed to an attorney.
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Great poem, ur... anyway.
As an aside.
Know yee all that previous members here have been banned for posting on the guest books of PA authors.
We have a standing invitation for PA authors to send the IP addy of the poster to AW so that the AW records/files can be checked for that IP addy.
PA authors are our friends.
PublishAmerica is not our friend.
As an aside.
Know yee all that previous members here have been banned for posting on the guest books of PA authors.
We have a standing invitation for PA authors to send the IP addy of the poster to AW so that the AW records/files can be checked for that IP addy.
PA authors are our friends.
PublishAmerica is not our friend.
It seems like there are new posters here who take it upon themselves to smear the guestbooks with horrid sayings and it just hurts the authors, never helps. As I said earlier, what if you smear a PA authors guestbook and they decide they are not worthy to even live. What happens if they kill themselves and who will be held accountable?Great poem, ur... anyway.
As an aside.
Know yee all that previous members here have been banned for posting on the guest books of PA authors.
We have a standing invitation for PA authors to send the IP addy of the poster to AW so that the AW records/files can be checked for that IP addy.
PA authors are our friends.
PublishAmerica is not our friend.
OK, I was going to let this pass but then it was brought back up. I do not believe in posting in PA authors guestbooks about PA and I have not and will not do it. But I find the above both ridiculous and unnecessary. The way PA operates is enough to make anyone depressed but nobody is accusing them of tipping anyone into suicide and saying that making an ill advised guest book posting is tantamount to stringing up a noose is not helping anyone. Why do we need such hysterically over the top statements making let alone repeating? There is enough emotional upheaval produced by PA without making people worry they may have caused suicides, it is enough to say (and it has been said) that guest book posting are probably not the best way forward.
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Posting in a guestbook is wasted time and effort. All it would do is piss off the owner and probably begin another round of "PA against the world." It's like trying to convince a drug addict or an alchoholic that they have a problem. Unfortunately, it can't be done until the person him/herself has that epiphany. With some, it will happen eventually - others, well, there's little you can do about them.
The best thing we can do, I think, it make sure the "Welcome" mat is always out and that we have enough chairs and snacks out for everyone.
If I'd happened upon them back about ten years ago when I was shopping around a so-not-ready-for-primetime manuscript, I undoubtedly would have fallen for them, too, proverbial hook, line and sinker. I was just smart enough to realize that Vantage Press wasn't a good idea, but I had no idea how publishing worked at the time. Heck, I'm still learning.
If I'd happened upon them back about ten years ago when I was shopping around a so-not-ready-for-primetime manuscript, I undoubtedly would have fallen for them, too, proverbial hook, line and sinker. I was just smart enough to realize that Vantage Press wasn't a good idea, but I had no idea how publishing worked at the time. Heck, I'm still learning.
zizban
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When I post in guestbooks, I'll say something like "Congratulations." tell them what a great writing resource we have here.
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I think posting in guestbooks is a bad idea.
Let's go over some unhappy facts. As Christine N wrote in another post, only 0.5% of the slush is publishable. If you look at the posts on the PAMB, with the apostrophes sprinkled on a few words for what must be artistic purposes, you realize that most of the people posting there are not capable of writing a good book. With the attitude that many of them have toward "grammer" (sic) as well as other basics - they may never be capable of writing a good book.
Nevertheless, they have finished a book, which is an achievement in itself. Why rain on their parades? Why make them unhappy and bitter and dissatisfied?
Of course, many PA authors will notice that something is wrong and want to do about it. If and when they investigate further, they will learn of AW and the other resources. And these days, people are getting out of PA contracts with relative ease, so the damage doesn't have to be permanent - or even last 7 years.
And I also agree that if you can show them the facts before they sign with PA, that's altogether different. Let them make the decision with open eyes. But after the deed is done, don't write in their guestbooks
Let's go over some unhappy facts. As Christine N wrote in another post, only 0.5% of the slush is publishable. If you look at the posts on the PAMB, with the apostrophes sprinkled on a few words for what must be artistic purposes, you realize that most of the people posting there are not capable of writing a good book. With the attitude that many of them have toward "grammer" (sic) as well as other basics - they may never be capable of writing a good book.
Nevertheless, they have finished a book, which is an achievement in itself. Why rain on their parades? Why make them unhappy and bitter and dissatisfied?
Of course, many PA authors will notice that something is wrong and want to do about it. If and when they investigate further, they will learn of AW and the other resources. And these days, people are getting out of PA contracts with relative ease, so the damage doesn't have to be permanent - or even last 7 years.
And I also agree that if you can show them the facts before they sign with PA, that's altogether different. Let them make the decision with open eyes. But after the deed is done, don't write in their guestbooks
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From: http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?p=229407#229407
This gentleman seems to understand the dilemma of PA authors, yet doesn't seem to grasp the concept that, if PA did operate as a 'traditional' publisher, the situation would be very different.
PODS/self pubs are competing against each other. The whole idea is to make money by selling books. Volume begets overhead; when PA starts their own printing presses you can bet things are going to change over there and not for the 'better'.
PA's presses might just become their own undoing.
This gentleman seems to understand the dilemma of PA authors, yet doesn't seem to grasp the concept that, if PA did operate as a 'traditional' publisher, the situation would be very different.
PODS/self pubs are competing against each other. The whole idea is to make money by selling books. Volume begets overhead; when PA starts their own printing presses you can bet things are going to change over there and not for the 'better'.
PA's presses might just become their own undoing.
There is nothing any of us can do to help a signed PA writer. Well I should say short of them not ordering their own books.
It's the person who hasn't signed yet that we want to prevent from doing so.
Time will take care of the current crop of PAers. They'll learn the truth just like the rest of us did.
PA has to be thinking about killing its business through attrition. Word of mouth travels in both directions. A force of twenty thousand is a lot of mouth blabbering.
It's the person who hasn't signed yet that we want to prevent from doing so.
Time will take care of the current crop of PAers. They'll learn the truth just like the rest of us did.
PA has to be thinking about killing its business through attrition. Word of mouth travels in both directions. A force of twenty thousand is a lot of mouth blabbering.
I've seen several PA'er websites that also note poetry.com (or one of the other names it uses) as credits.
How do you break double bad news to an aspiring writer? It would be like saying "everything you've done to date is worthless."
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