PAMB and its quotes [Archive] - Page 29 - Absolute Write Water Cooler

Afinerosesheis

11-16-2007, 11:49 PM

IIRC one author was able to get a bookstore to stock her book only because she got the fast-track option and the book (the cover itself?) had the disclaimer stating that the book had not been edited by PA. The bookseller told her that if the book had been edited by PA, he would not have carried any copies.

Of course, I forgot whose book that was. Someone obvious, I'm sure. :)

Well, I'll be danged! That is news. PA didn't add any errors to mine that I know of. If they had I would have found them and fixed them. I'm surprised any stores carry any PA books. I sure never had any luck. Trying to get my books in there was more of a humiliating joke, and not a funny one.

The people who have read my book have never complained of any errors. I'm confident it is not error-ridden. But will admit it could stand some real editing. Better publisher next time =)

brianm

11-17-2007, 02:57 AM

Ohhh...I hated them offering the fast track. Made us all look bad. And now I guess it is getting worse. I would be interested to know exactly what these new fast tracks involve.

One is called the "WC Express" option.

PA flushes the book down their commode and 24 hours later it pops up through the author's.

The benefit to PA with this option is that the sh** that has been added is not entirely PA's fault.

triceretops

11-17-2007, 03:24 AM

Could be that they ARE hurting for revenue and need to release several of their so-called editors to cut back. A new contract would spell this out, pardon the pun.

Tri

Afinerosesheis

11-17-2007, 04:02 AM

One is called the "WC Express" option.

PA flushes the book down their commode and 24 hours later, it pops up through the author's.

The benefit to PA with this option is that the sh** that has been added is not entirely PA's fault.

Brian...Brian...Brian...

shame on you for making such a funny funny. :tongue

This is entirely possible!

Jersey Chick

11-17-2007, 04:18 AM

Brian's been nipping at the holiday cheer a bit early this season... ;)

JimmyD1318

11-17-2007, 05:21 AM

One is called the "WC Express" option.

PA flushes the book down their commode and 24 hours later, it pops up through the author's.

The benefit to PA with this option is that the sh** that has been added is not entirely PA's fault.

:ROFL:Ohhhhh...good one!:ROFL:That deserves a bag of POPCORN! Here you go brianm!:popcorn:

TwentyFour

11-17-2007, 06:42 AM

Poptart kitten time!

http://www.gonewacko.org/T2003/Cuties/poptartcat.jpg

brianm

11-17-2007, 05:06 PM

Brian's been nipping at the holiday cheer a bit early this season... ;)

Pardon me, but the Irish do not require a holiday as an excuse to imbibe a wee bit of cheer.

It isn’t easy keeping the world supplied with drinking toasts, proverbs, and the like. It requires a great deal of hard work and hard work deserves a reward. If we have not worked on a particular day, there is always someone’s memory we can honor with a wee toast. If we can’t think of someone to toast, there is always a wee nip for medicinal purposes as we are a country of health conscious people.

Take our famous Irish coffee drink as an example of our concern for health. It contains ingredients from the four essential food groups. Alcohol, caffeine, sugar, and fat.

James D. Macdonald

11-17-2007, 05:47 PM

An Irish man shows up in a pub one day and orders three pints of Guinness. He takes sips from each glass until they are empty and calls the bartender for three more. The bartender says, 'Sure it's up to yourself, but wouldn't you rather I was bringing them one at a time? Then they'll be fresh and cold.'

'Nah...' your man says, ' I'm preferrin' that ye bring 'em three at a time. You see, me and me two brothers would meet at a pub and drink and have good times. Now one is in Australia, the other in Canada and I'm here. We agreed before we split up that we'd drink to each other's honour this way.'

'Well,' says the bartender, 'that's a grand thing to do, all right. I'll bring the pints as you ask.'

Well, time goes on and your man's peculiar habit is known and accepted by all the pub regulars. One day though, he comes in and orders only two pints. A hush falls over the pub. Naturally, everyone figures something happened to one of the brothers. A group of the regulars corner the bartender and finally persuade him to find out what happened. With a heavy heart, the bartender brings the two pints and says, 'Here's your pints... and let me offer my sincerest condolences. What happened?'

The Irish man looks extremely puzzled for a moment, and then starts laughing.

'Oh, no, no, no! 'Tis nothing like that. You see, I've given up drinking for Lent...'

Marie Pacha

11-17-2007, 06:14 PM

Erin go bragh

brianm

11-17-2007, 07:14 PM

A MacDonald and a Parkinson in the same thread? How do you spell derailment? :D

After a long illness, Mary O’Grady dies and arrives at the Gates of Heaven.

“This is the most beautiful place I’ve ever seen,” she says to St. Peter. “How do I get in?”

“You have to spell a word.”

"Which word?"

"Love."

Mary correctly spells the word and St. Peter welcomes her into Heaven.

Some time passes and St. Peter comes to Mary and asks her to watch
the Gates of Heaven. While guarding the Gates, her husband arrives.

"I'm surprised to see you,” says Mary. "How have you been?"

"I did very well after you died. I married the beautiful young nurse who took care of you. Then I won the lottery, sold our cottage, and bought a big mansion. My new wife and I traveled all over the world. We were on vacation and I went mountain climbing. My rope broke and here I am now. How do I get in?"

"You have to spell a word.”

"Which word?"

"Czechoslovakia."

Afinerosesheis

11-17-2007, 07:31 PM

It contains ingredients from the four essential food groups. Alcohol, caffeine, sugar, and fat.

I keep telling my mom this is how it is! Vegetables? BAH

DaveKuzminski

11-17-2007, 07:41 PM

Hmmm, just doesn't seem right without chocolate. ;)

JulieB

11-17-2007, 08:13 PM

Hmmm, just doesn't seem right without chocolate. ;)

That's in the sprinkles you put on top for garnish. Me, I prefer lots of garnish.

And if you use non-fat whipped cream (but where's the fun in that?) you can substitute chocolate as a basic food group.

(Man, it's a good thing I'd already planned a visit our local British provisions shop today. I've now got a craving for some really good Cadburys.)

Queen of Swords

11-17-2007, 09:41 PM

Read quick before this gets censored! (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24476)

Yes, that's the actual title of the author's thread. She's woken up and smelled the Kool-Aid. You can guess how infomeister reacted.

The last time I wrote on the message board about my problem with curling book covers, my message got pulled and I suspect that this one will be deleted as well.

I ordered and paid for 200 copies of my book. The 200 copies I received had poor quality book covers that curl. I am embarrassed to sell them and PA ought to be embarrassed for printing such poor quality covers. I have asked to get out of my contract, PA says they've corrected the problem but I am still left with a supply of books with inferior curling covers.

Hence, a warning to newcomers: don't order large quantities of books!

I will say so long to all of you and good luck as I expect to be barred from any further postings on this forum. If you wish to keep in touch, please write to me via my Web site.

The only response so far is a suggestion that she stack her books under a heavy weight (a large lollipop tree, or will Miranda herself volunteer?) to prevent the covers curling.

JimmyD1318

11-17-2007, 10:29 PM

Here is her reply.

Thanks for your quick response,(Board member's name removed.) ...I tried using heavy objects to correct the problem, however this is only a temporary solution. As soon as the air gets to the books, they start to curl immediately. The two author copies I received are fine, the covers do not curl...in fact when they arrived, I was very happy with them. However, the 200 copies I paid for have a lighter cover, much thinner than the covers of the author copies. One person actually wrote to me after purchasing my book in a bookstore to inform me that the bookstore sold him the book at a 20% discount because of the curling cover. Check out the bookstore closest to you...you will not see books for sale on the shelves with curling covers...unlerss it happens to be my book!!

I think it will soon be time to pull out another chair. Guess I better get busy poping up some more POPCORN.:popcorn:

Jersey Chick

11-18-2007, 02:04 AM

Bad laminate! Bad laminate!

Could quality be a problem? Nope, it's misbehaving laminate.

Don't you hate when that happens?

brianm

11-18-2007, 02:16 AM

Author copies coming from LS? Author purchased copies coming from PA's new printing press? Inquiring minds want to know.

Afinerosesheis

11-18-2007, 02:35 AM

I hate to hear things like this. They must be going to cheaper and cheaper materials. So unfair with that heavy cover price! My covers are very durable, almost like cardboard. Not defending PA, just stating my covers were good.

IceCreamEmpress

11-18-2007, 04:33 AM

Author copies coming from LS? Author purchased copies coming from PA's new printing press? Inquiring minds want to know.

I've never had this issue with a LightningSource book. I have seen CafePress books do this. Curiouser and curiouser! I wonder if PA is trying out a new vendor for larger batches--perhaps an overseas vendor? There's a very cheap digital-print house in India that people have warned me against because the quality of cover and binding, especially, isn't what we're used to in the US.

I hate to hear things like this. They must be going to cheaper and cheaper materials. So unfair with that heavy cover price! My covers are very durable, almost like cardboard. Not defending PA, just stating my covers were good.

Yes, that sounds like the usual LightningSource product. They do a perfectly good job in my experience.

CatSlave

11-18-2007, 05:11 AM

Could be that they ARE hurting for revenue and need to release several of their so-called editors to cut back. A new contract would spell this out, pardon the pun.

Tri
Absolutely-the Hellocopter trip must have cost a fortune; they have the printing facility at South Wisner to support (and it has been up and running for at least two or three months now); and let's not forget they have a full time attorney on the payroll now, and that can't be cheap.

Which brings to mind another question: how much does the average attorney charge per hour?
Why would Vic Cretella leave a lucrative position with a respected law firm to sign on with PA?
Either he's so crooked himself that nobody else wants him, or Willem is paying him such a massive amount of money that he's willing to risk his professional reputation.
Just wondering...

The word is really getting around locally about PA. I've spoken with some service agencies in town that have nothing to do with the publishing industry, but are very aware of the miserable reputation PA has. There are a LOT of disgruntled former employees out and about, and word is spreading like wildfire what kind of a scam operation PA is running.
Oh, yes indeed.

One last comment: the largest and nicest bookstore in Frederick (Borders), home of PublishAmerica, refuses to stock their books.
Rather vehemently, I might add.

DaveKuzminski

11-18-2007, 05:52 AM

Read quick before this gets censored! (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24476)

Yes, that's the actual title of the author's thread. She's woken up and smelled the Kool-Aid. You can guess how infomeister reacted.

The only response so far is a suggestion that she stack her books under a heavy weight (a large lollipop tree, or will Miranda herself volunteer?) to prevent the covers curling.

Moron-duh only knows about cut... no paste and no press.

Vic had to leave his former employer after a certain party contacted the entire Ethics Committee for the Maryland Bar Association along with his employers after an attempt by Vic to extort payment to PA from an AW writer who expressed her opinion about PA on the AW site. Chalk up one more loss for Vic from a non-lawyer opponent.

Komnena

11-18-2007, 08:05 AM

That thread is gone. Do you suppose the author has gotten her tone letter yet telling her to pay no attention to the curling covers behind the curtain? 200 copies at $10 apiece is, I believe, two thousand dollars she didn't pay to be published.

CatSlave

11-18-2007, 08:19 AM

The Infomonster goofed. The thread was up until just a while ago...somebody was sleeping when they should have been censoring. :D
Long enough for plenty of readers to see her the post and comment on it.

This leads me to believe her book order for 200 copies was processed by the PA printing plant, hence the poor quality.
If you can imagine the quality of their products becoming any poorer...

burgy61

11-18-2007, 08:21 AM

Which brings to mind another question: how much does the average attorney charge per hour?

The IP attorney that I talked to charged $175.00 per hour.

Christine N.

11-18-2007, 04:05 PM

Yeah, but for something like what Vic's doing, he's probably on retainer, not hourly.

TwentyFour

11-18-2007, 07:08 PM

I wonder if that was the book special they had going recently when books were so cheap?

ResearchGuy

11-19-2007, 01:35 AM

. . . They get your hopes up with the two author copies they send which are of good quality. . .
Not necessarily. One PA author of my acquaintance, who managed to get the contract cancelled shortly after receiving the author's copies, was not impressed. The color on the cover was wrong (PA had fouled up the provided photo) and the interior was cramped. (Cover stock and binding were ok, though--just not the problem.)

--Ken

DaveKuzminski

11-19-2007, 03:49 AM

Because of the amount she spent, this is clearly a case for arbitration. I hope she takes PA to arbitration so she can recover her money.

jamiehall

11-19-2007, 04:04 AM

The word is really getting around locally about PA. I've spoken with some service agencies in town that have nothing to do with the publishing industry, but are very aware of the miserable reputation PA has. There are a LOT of disgruntled former employees out and about, and word is spreading like wildfire what kind of a scam operation PA is running.

That's wonderful news!

I feel so badly for the PA author who paid $2,000 for 200 copies of her books, only to be sent inferior products which she is now stuck with and embarrassed to sell. That's one of the things I dislike so much about PA: They get your hopes up with the two author copies they send which are of good quality and lead you to believe that when you order additional copies, they'll be of the same quality.

Clause 2 in the PA contract states: "The Publisher agrees to produce the said literary work in book form, in such format, type and style of paper, jacket and binding as will make the volume attractive and substantial-looking. It is specifically understood and agreed, furthermore, that the said volume will contain all manuscript pages as submitted by the Author (unless otherwise designated hereinafter), and will be printed on good quality paper with the bound size to be, approximately 5-1/2 x 8-1/2 or 6 x 9 inches, or any other size as the market demands." (Bolding mine)

I wonder if she can return the copies to PA, and get a refund, because they breached clause 2 of the contract by printing inferior copies. I know her post is gone now, but does anyone have her email address so we could suggest this to her?

It's my feeling, though, that even if she tried to do this, PA wouldn't give her a refund. :(

It certainly sounds like she (and probably a number of other authors too) could get out of the contract on the basis of PA providing shoddy copies.

Because of the amount she spent, this is clearly a case for arbitration. I hope she takes PA to arbitration so she can recover her money.

I hope she does, and I hope a lot of others do too. As long as PA keeps using such low-quality printing, I think they are opening themselves to the potential for a lot of legal trouble.

CatSlave

11-19-2007, 05:12 AM

As long as PA keeps using such low-quality printing, I think they are opening themselves to the potential for a lot of legal trouble.
I doubt they would hire someone who actually knows how to run a print shop to take over the South Wisner printing plant.
Just more on-the-job "training" to a bunch of newbies with a high employee turnover rate; it doesn't bode well for turning out a superior quality product.

Did someone mention quality control?
Geddoudahere.
:roll:

Jersey Chick

11-19-2007, 06:13 AM

Quality control - in their case it means controlling the fact that there is little to no quality in most instances.

JanDarby

11-19-2007, 06:37 PM

brianm

11-19-2007, 07:05 PM

Sparhawk

11-19-2007, 07:09 PM

It strikes me as incredibly odd that anyone would accept what they consider shoddy products, without even considering returning them for replacement copies.

I mean, how many of us, if we went to our local department store (or book store or t-shirt printing store), bought $2,000 of something, got home, and found the item was defective, would then sit at home in despair? Wouldn't we pack the stuff up, and go marching back to the customer service department to demand a refund/replacement? Or, if it was mail-order, call the customer service department to demand a refund/replacement? And keep going up the chain of command until the matter was resolved?

I just don't get it.

JD

Even if she complained... Where would it get her? It's not like PA would address the error with prodictive dialogue. THey'd simply say the books detrimental covers do not affect the overall "sellability" of the book. Hey, family and freends are more forgiving than the average consumer. I see her having to go through the arbitration process.

This whole episode is sad. I wonder if she could really afford the $2,000.00 she's out. PA will never accept the books back unless compelled by judgement to do so. They will tell her to "Have a nice day" though.

If PA continues with this type of shoddy product, there'll be a lot of unhappy new PAvidians from sea to shining sea and across the fruited plain. Vic will be a busy legal bee getting slapped with arbitration loss after loss once some of these autors wise up.

Afinerosesheis

11-19-2007, 07:39 PM

Let's keep tabs on this one if possible. This one particularly bothers me. It could have been me. It was this time last year when I ordered all my copies, not 200 though!

If this is the workmanship of their covers in the future I'd say things have turned in a downward spiral. I so hope she gets a refund.:e2drown:

Afinerosesheis

11-19-2007, 07:41 PM

Here's a question. Maybe James knows, How do PA books work out with this new Kindle thing?

Christine N.

11-19-2007, 08:03 PM

Unless PA has chosen to sell their books in the Amazon Kindle store (ie Mobipocket format) I don't think it affects them at all. I don't even know if PA's contract allows them to publish in e-book format, or if that right remains with the authors.

They've never done it before, don't see why they'd start.

brianm

11-19-2007, 08:14 PM

I doubt she can return the books. PA has a "no return" policy for bookstores, so I imagine they also have a "no return" policy for authors.

Not entirely accurate. Some PA books are returnable. However, they must be ordered through Ingram, the discount is a mere 5%, and there is a 10% restocking fee to return the book.

On the other hand, legitimate, commercial publishers offer 40-60% discounts with no restocking fee.

JanDarby

11-19-2007, 08:18 PM

PA has a "no return" policy for bookstores, so I imagine they also have a "no return" policy for authors.

Except that's two different meanings of "no return." In a biz like publishing where the product is sold essentially on commission, the parties will agree, in the contract, that the product can (or cannot) be returned simply b/c it's unsold, without any defect. That's the sort of "no return" policy that PA can legitimately have -- its contract can state that it doesn't engage in the standard practice of accepting returns of unsold books simply as unsold books, and that clause may be enforceable.

There's an entirely separate concept of returning a DEFECTIVE product. I'm not giving legal advice here, just general information, but federal law and many state laws require that a product meet certain basic standards of being fit for its intended use, and holds the manufacturer responsible for meeting that standard, regardless of what any contract might state.

In other words, a toy manufacturer cannot make a toy that's unfit for use by the intended age range and absolve itself from liability simply by writing on the box "we are not liable for any damages caused by the toy being unfit for use by children."

So, while the PA client may or may not get anywhere by complaining, it's striking that the PA client doesn't even consider asking for a refund/exchange, and apparently assumes that the request would be denied.

JD

Queen of Swords

11-19-2007, 09:21 PM

Could you be any more obsequious towards PA? (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24502)

PublishAmerica will design a cover for your book that is superior to any other publishers cover design, they use excellent quality paper and ink, the binding of the books is excellent. They have put a lot of time and expense into your book, the least you can do is to put y our best foot forward.

Then again, this is from the author who keeps saying that over 75% of books are not sold in bookstores. One can't expect his statements to accurately reflect reality.

Queen of Swords

11-20-2007, 03:13 AM

The mind boggles. (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24510)

Here's a unique idea for you, have your book jacket cover on tile. There's a gallery here in Santa Fe, NM that does photography on tile, any size you want 4", 6" and even larger. I thought it was a great idea as gifts , or even promotional.

Please tell me that no one is going to suggest handing out a tile with a picture of their book's cover on it. I mean, a tile. What on earth could a customer do with a tile?

Come back, individually wrapped chocolates with book covers on them! All is forgiven!

Christine N.

11-20-2007, 03:17 AM

He suggested that on the other board. I didn't want to say anything. It's a nice little momento, I guess, but kinda out there.

Queen of Swords

11-20-2007, 03:20 AM

Not to mention a further cost on top of the books and other promotional materials.

edgyllama

11-20-2007, 03:25 AM

He suggested that on the other board. I didn't want to say anything. It's a nice little momento, I guess, but kinda out there.

I thought it was odd as well.

Jersey Chick

11-20-2007, 03:44 AM

When I was in junior high, we all took shop. We made tables. Tile topped tables. Now, you get yourself about 12 or so of those tiles, some wood, four flat iron bars for legs (we filed them down and bent them), and you've got yourself some furniture.

(i think my mom still has mine, but i don't really remember... it was a looooong time ago)

AnneMarble

11-20-2007, 03:51 AM

The mind boggles. (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24510)

Please tell me that no one is going to suggest handing out a tile with a picture of their book's cover on it. I mean, a tile. What on earth could a customer do with a tile?
Well you could put hot foods on it. My father found some really nice tiles in the Dumpster outside a house that was being built, and everyone in the family got tiles. I put my toaster on my tile.

However, I couldn't imagine making tiles to promote a book, unless the author was writing home improvement books. Even then, you'd have to be a successful author to make it worthwhile. (I could imagine Bob Vila giving out tiles at a bookfair. And you can bet his publisher would pay for them.:D) The cost of tiles alone would be high enough for a PA author, but imagine the shipping costs on a box of tiles. :scared: On top of that, nobody is going to buy a PA book because they got a free tile with the book's cover on it.

Jersey Chick

11-20-2007, 04:00 AM

If they were heavy enough, it might solve the curling cover problems...

i know, i know - snarky...

Afinerosesheis

11-20-2007, 04:08 AM

If they were heavy enough, it might solve the curling cover problems...

i know, i know - snarky...*Snort* ;)

I see these outlandish marketing schemes and my first thought is always the financial entanglements that would go with such a thing. Doesn't anyone care about that? It then amazes me how people come out of the woodwork to oooooh and aaaaah over these amazing new marketing developments.The loyal Pa'ers slobbered over these quaint little schemes so much at the PAMB that I had to wipe the drool oozing from my screen.

James D. Macdonald

11-20-2007, 04:15 AM

Even then, you'd have to be a successful author to make it worthwhile.

You can get tiles at CafePress. Here's an example: http://www.cafepress.com/oftpublished.2274089

(Check out the rest of that store, too: Oft-Published Elite (http://www.cafepress.com/oftpublished))

JulieB

11-20-2007, 04:56 AM

I just checked out the web site (linked from the original posting). They have some nice stuff. I think an 8" tile (something stock, not custom) was around $36. That's an expensive promotional item.

Think how many bookmarks or lollipop tress you can have for that same money!

xhouseboy

11-20-2007, 05:40 AM

There's an entirely separate concept of returning a DEFECTIVE product. I'm not giving legal advice here, just general information, but federal law and many state laws require that a product meet certain basic standards of being fit for its intended use, and holds the manufacturer responsible for meeting that standard, regardless of what any contract might state.

JD

Which is why I suspect that PA wouldn't have lasted too long in the UK, even if they hadn't shot themselves in the foot before they even got started by rubbing Publish Britannica up the wrong way.

The OFT would have been all over these jokers if they refused to replace a sub standard product.

brianm

11-20-2007, 06:08 AM

(Check out the rest of that store, too: Oft-Published Elite (http://www.cafepress.com/oftpublished))

I assume this is referring to an advance?

http://www.cafepress.com/oftpublished.2216365

Mine is Bigger than Yours Shorts

Only you and your groupies will know…

$15.00

Comes in small, medium, large, and *cough* extra large *cough*.

Afinerosesheis

11-20-2007, 06:12 AM

Dear Author,
As we do each year around Thanksgiving, with Santa already well on his way, here is our special sales offer for anyone who needs books on hand, as gifts or otherwise:

*between 5 - 50 copies: 40 pct discount;
* 51 - 100 copies: 45 pct discount;
*101 or more copies: 50 pct discount.

Phone orders only, at XXX XXX XXXX, between 9am - 9pm EST. Offer expires Nov. 21. Sorry, fullcolor and hardcover books excluded.

Happy Thanksgiving!

PublishAmerica Author Support

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am praying to God these books don't have the shoddy covers. :cry:I hope that the other was just a fluke. I hope for the best in everything. Notice an author has less than 48 hours to come up with the moola. Very strange.

Maddog

11-20-2007, 06:30 AM

They're trying to raise some quick cash to pay off their arbitration loss--well, I can hope they lost anyway!;)

DaveKuzminski

11-20-2007, 06:48 AM

Yep, they need big bucks in order to pay off the arbitration and still have enough to spring for presents for themselves. Those discounts on just five copies ain't gonna do it for them this time but they're desperate enough that they're still including even the small sales to their authors.

Makes me wish I'd hit them for libel back in 2000. That might have stopped them in their tracks and kept them in micro-publisher size if not put them out of business.

IceCreamEmpress

11-20-2007, 09:16 PM

PublishAmerica will design a cover for your book that is superior to any other publishers cover design

I don't think this is true even if you limit the design competition to publishers in the world's most economically impoverished nations! I recently got a book from Bulgaria that looks downright snazzy.

Sparhawk

11-20-2007, 09:37 PM

ResearchGuy

11-21-2007, 08:59 PM

Ok, who can fill in the blank:

. . . I've learned . . . that a novelist spends 40 percent of her time writing and 60 percent on the road all over the country promoting her work, paying her own expenses. I've learned how complicated the contracts are, now to ask for the covers I want, and how to fight for what changes are to be made in my manuscript. Luckily I'm with a great company, [YOUR GUESS HERE], and have a great editor to work with.Ideas?

--Ken

Afinerosesheis

11-21-2007, 11:56 PM

Ken, that is a loaded question if I ever saw one. :)

Have a Happy Thanksgiving all!

JulieB

11-22-2007, 01:10 AM

Three guesses, and the first two don't count, right? ;-)

ResearchGuy

11-23-2007, 08:33 PM

Three guesses, and the first two don't count, right? ;-)
Well, there were NO guesses, so here is the answer:

Bantam.

The author quoted is Rita Lakin, "Talk About Naive," in Ray White and Duane Lindsay, eds., How I got Published (Writer's Digest Books, 2007), on p. 267, last paragraph. See www.ritalakin.com for more information about her. Sounds like she writes the sort of thing my wife and I like to read. Time for a trip to B&N.

--Ken

P.S. Betcha some of y'all thought it was PA, right?

edgyllama

11-23-2007, 08:46 PM

Well, there were NO guesses, so here is the answer:

Bantam.

The author quoted is Rita Lakin, "Talk About Naive," in Ray White and Duane Lindsay, eds., How I got Published (Writer's Digest Books, 2007), on p. 267, last paragraph. See www.ritalakin.com for more information about her. Sounds like she writes the sort of thing my wife and I like to read. Time for a trip to B&N.

--Ken

P.S. Betcha some of y'all thought it was PA, right?

Not funny and off topic.

endless rewrite

11-23-2007, 08:50 PM

I thought the answer was going to be Dandelion Through the Crack.

Queen of Swords

11-23-2007, 08:59 PM

P.S. Betcha some of y'all thought it was PA, right?

Not when I read "how to fight for what changes are to be made in my manuscript". PA authors generally don't fight for changes in their manuscripts - they fight to get out of their contracts.

ResearchGuy

11-23-2007, 10:57 PM

I thought the answer was going to be [deleted book title].
Hysterically funny. L . . . O . . . uh . . . L. But weird, since the question was about the publisher, not a book title.

--Ken

ResearchGuy

11-23-2007, 10:59 PM

Not funny and off topic.
Actually, and apparently too subtly, on topic because of the unstated (but obvious) similarity of the quoted sentiment to so much posted on the PA message boards and quoted and ridiculed here.

I'd better connect the dots.

It is not surprising that PA authors would voice sentiments like those I quoted (not, actually, all that rare or peculiar among commercially published authors), as they do see that sort of thing said by such authors, as the quoted passsage by a successful mystery novelist suggests. Unfortunately for them, what can contribute to success for a commercially published author, supported by normal trade distribution, quality products, and reasonable prices, utterly fails for a PA author, burdened by constricted distribution (none in the general trade), poor quality products (on several measures), and bloated list prices. What they might say is not, actually, necessarily unreasonable. The problem is that it is not applicable to their situation. Offered FWIW.

--Ken

endless rewrite

11-23-2007, 11:09 PM

Hysterically funny. L . . . O . . . uh . . . L. But weird, since the question was about the publisher, not a book title.

And yet it not being an appropriate reference or answer has not stopped you shoehorning it in as one at every opportunity, therefore not such a weird guess.

Jersey Chick

11-24-2007, 01:55 AM

I'm glad I kept quiet...

So, how was the holiday?

Queen of Swords

11-24-2007, 03:01 AM

I wonder how long this will stay. (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24600)

I have an issue please. I have a customer that contacted me through my email because they went to the PA website to purchase my book and they got an order number and everything but it has been over 6 weeks since the order was placed, they have called and left messages i have called and left messages for PA with no response can you please let me know what is going on with the order i do have the order number they gave me to ask about it they are very upset and are saying that it is a fraud. Please help.

Or if it does stay, what the response might be. Typical of PA, to place its author in such a position, but it's just more evidence that PA's business plan doesn't include selling books to readers.

Jersey Chick

11-24-2007, 03:27 AM

Thank you, thank you... Heat Miser, flaming hair - I figured it fit. :D

Afinerosesheis

11-24-2007, 04:11 AM

I wonder how long this will stay. (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24600)

Or if it does stay, what the response might be. Typical of PA, to place its author in such a position, but it's just more evidence that PA's business plan doesn't include selling books to readers. It's LOCKED with this message from their friend infocenter: (I put the red)

Leigha: please call headquarters Monday morning. All PA staff are enjoying their well-earned their 4-day long holiday weekend. No one is left behind, so they'll take care of that lost shipment no doubt.

No child left behind? Just gives me chills =(

edgyllama

11-24-2007, 04:24 AM

They got four days off? color me shocked. I would have bet $$$ Moe would have worked them today.

That grammar looks like Larry. Maybe he overruled her.

Jersey Chick

11-24-2007, 05:05 AM

I just have to ask when the first "where are the books" call came in. Has the staff been on holiday ever since?

Afinerosesheis

11-24-2007, 05:56 AM

I just have to ask when the first "where are the books" call came in. Has the staff been on holiday ever since?

Yep, I wondered that myself. It doesn't really matter. Eight, six, or even four weeks is TOO LONG to make a buyer wait! If anyone wants any of my books I send them straight to Amazon, I don't even fool with the PA order center.

Queen of Swords

11-29-2007, 04:13 AM

Unfavorable review of PA novel... (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24687)

...from another PA author.

The document on a whole was trite. From character, to storyline, to dialogue, <title> was a forced read. The reader feels compelled to continue reading for one purpose only…to see if the novel will present itself with redeemable qualities.

This reader did not enjoy this novel and would not actively recommend it as a read.

Rating: 1 ½ Stars

This is the first time I've read a less-than-positive review on the PAMB. I really hope infocenter isn't going to come down hard on the reviewer, because he/she seems to be one of the few people there who puts some work into reviews, as opposed to tossing out five-star egostrokes. Even more unusually, the review didn't end with a plug for the reviewer's own novel.

Rolling Thunder

11-29-2007, 05:51 AM

Let's also keep in mind that the reviewed book is one written by a member in good standing here on AW.

So take the review as you will. It's an opinion of one writer's work by another, not an opinion of PA and its practices.

Queen of Swords

11-29-2007, 06:03 AM

It's an opinion of the writer's work, not of PA and its practices.

True. It's an oddity on the PAMB, though - a review that didn't consist of vague, uncritical praise with the reviewer's own novel(s) shoehorned in at the end. And considering how hard PA tries to foster a no-negativity-ever atmosphere on their board, this bit of cold hard reality really stands out.

I didn't intend any disrespect or offence towards the author whose book was reviewed, and I apologize if there was anything inappropriate about my post.

emsuniverse

11-29-2007, 09:35 AM

I have never seen a PA review by anther PA author that wasn't a 5 star review, usually involving something like "A wonderful read!" or "It should be on Oprah!"

And there's no shameless plug for the reviewer's book.

Wow.

Queen of Swords

11-29-2007, 06:41 PM

Disappointed in PA the first time (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24706)

Grabbing this before it's deleted!

Ok so last week i was emailed by a reader that they ahd ordered a book and it has been past 6 weeks i posted a message on here and was told by the moderators that i should call monday after thanksgiving. I did i was told that the customer needed to call them her self. When i informed the customer of this i was called a fraud and a liar and that my publisher is out to get money without providing the books. I am confused. What am i suppose to do now. I dont want this to be what people think of me, PA or my book. Please help?

rihannsu

11-29-2007, 07:36 PM

Topic's already deleted.

Jersey Chick

11-29-2007, 08:22 PM

Unfortunately, the author's going to get the blame. **peers into crystal ball** I'm seeing... a tone letter, perhaps? It's still a little cloudy...

Komnena

11-30-2007, 03:11 AM

Maybe this customer can sue PA, unlike its authors.

Queen of Swords

12-01-2007, 02:57 AM

Problems with book sales (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24732)

Hey, this is my first time being published, and my book officially is released on 12/29/2007... so I need quick replies!!! Okay, here is my issue... With Amazon.com, my book is posted... but it's not making any sales... whatsoever, according to Chareo.us.... Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to turn this around? I have done my press releases, I have been talking the book up like crazy to all my peers (and that is a LOT OF PEERS considering the fact that I go to college, at MMCC).... but still no luck on Amazon.

It's a poetry book, making it that much harder a sell, and although it's only a 136-page paperback, the list price is $19.95 (not that anyone is going to mention this on that board). Pipesmoker's helpful advice was to "keep plugging away on promoting yourself and the book", and I have no doubt the rest of the faithful will offer similar suggestions. I feel sorry for the author. :|

Rolling Thunder

12-01-2007, 03:09 AM

I feel sorry for her, too. She's about to discover that 'online advertising' is about as effective as self dentistry, but just as painful. Alas, the dream of another poor soul, cast asunder...

Jersey Chick

12-01-2007, 03:34 AM

Oy. I've got that sinking feeling... this isn't gonna end well for him. Damn shame.

Joanna_S

12-01-2007, 04:44 AM

The author is male. Thank goodness he was just told how to solve all of his problems via the purple snowflake.

-- Joanna

Afinerosesheis

12-01-2007, 06:30 AM

The author is male. Thank goodness he was just told how to solve all of his problems via the purple snowflake.

-- Joanna Anyone ever say that works?

Their pricing is horrendous, but this is even worse. 136 poetry pages 19.95 and I thought MY book was high. For two dollars more you get 120 more pages. What is up with that?
Have they raised the prices recently?

edgyllama

12-01-2007, 06:59 AM

A book of poetry is a hard enough sell if you are known.
But that many pages and that price...that's a shame.

VeggieChick

12-01-2007, 01:00 PM

The author is male. Thank goodness he was just told how to solve all of his problems via the purple snowflake.

-- Joanna

I find it annoying too that the authors promote the ebook in EVERY answer they give, but the ebook itself is actually not bad at all. I read it (long story there).

Queen of Swords

12-02-2007, 03:36 AM

Pipesmoker pontificates (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24747)

The good advice was,

If you receive a letter from an agent offering to represent you, don't get excited. Legitimate agents don't operate that way so you almost certainly have been contacted by a predator.
Check them out on at least two websites: "Predators and Editors" and "Writer Beware." Also Google their name and find what others may have said about them

The not-so-good advice was,

Getting a good agent, one with contacts and who has earned the respect and trust of editors, is difficult if not impossible except iduring a face-to-face meeting. The reliable agents and agencies are snowed under with mail from people hoping to be taken on as a client. The chance of succeeding that way is extremely remote but you may attract predators.

Firstly, it's not easy to get a good agent, but I don't think it's as hopeless an endeavor as he makes it appear. Secondly, how do you attract predators by doing your research before querying agencies? In Pipeworld, do such agents pass rejected queries on to Christopher Hill?

Finally, he doesn't mention the most important part of attracting a legitimate agent's attention - having a good manuscript and query letter.

What someone seriously seeking an agent needs to do is attend workshops and seminars where an agent is on the program. Then request to be included in the five-minute personal interview segment of the program. To have any hope of succeeding you must have an outstanding portfolio to display and you must do an excellent job of selling yourself. Explain your plans for future writing and tell the agent of your marketing and promotional ideas.

What is with these references to a portfolio? I can very well see this backfiring - the average author on that board might, in lieu of a portfolio, include references to their Amazon shorts and their book(s) published by PA, shooting themselves in the feet before they've even started. And promotional ideas? Agents might ask for marketing plans, but relating some of the promotional ideas on that board is not going to go over well.

And misinformative though this might be, another author added on another thread that, "If <names of PA authors> were agents I would definitely consider them because I have seen read their minds (sic)." That pretty much took the cake.

Mel

12-02-2007, 03:47 AM

Another one on Agents (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24735)
Better be careful, Catman, you're on thin ice. That agency has a very bad reputation and is considered a predator. If you haven't done so, Google The New York Literary Agency. Read the comments by Scot Savage and those on the Absolute Write messageboard. The second they ask for money for a critique by another firm (which they own) you would be wise to drop them.

To anyone else that might read this: Catman means well but do not have anything to do with the New York Literary Agency.

Bold mine. Will that message stay with him suggesting Absolute Write?

Stay tuned.

Christine N.

12-02-2007, 04:10 AM

And yet, on another thread on another board, the gentleman who smokes a pipe states that you should never badmouth anyone and to not take the advice of lists of 'bad agents/publishers' - and this WAS in reference to the Writer's Beware list!!!

So if no one says anything bad about them, how are we to know who the bad ones are? And a portfolio is pretty much a reference to shorts and newspapers, his major writing background. A clipping file is what it's also called.

Some days I don't know if that guy is coming or going. He's nice enough, though.

And obviously behind the times, if he thinks the only good way to get an editor is face-to-face. What about California writers who are looking at NYC agents? Or Kristen Nelson, who's based in Denver? I don't know how many conferences agents go to, but they're are overwhelmed with authors at those things. Query letters work for me, thanks.

Jersey Chick

12-02-2007, 04:24 AM

Whoa - I think I must've read that wrong. Did Smoker really recommend this board? You're kidding! ;)

Mel

12-02-2007, 04:36 AM

Actually made me smile. Or maybe that was a snicker. Can't remember.

DaveKuzminski

12-02-2007, 04:37 AM

Maybe this customer can sue PA, unlike its authors.

Absolutely. After all, customers don't have a signed contract requiring arbitration.

Also, PA authors should keep in mind that they should use credit cards when self-purchasing their own books because those give them some rights and leverage, particularly when the product is defective such as when it contains errors that weren't in the proofs.

Rolling Thunder

12-02-2007, 04:44 AM

The advice of PipeSmoker is always biased: Be careful and use P&E to check backgrounds...but ignore their advice on PA because 'they' don't know what they are talking about.

edgyllama

12-02-2007, 05:18 AM

And yet, on another thread on another board, the gentleman who smokes a pipe states that you should never badmouth anyone and to not take the advice of lists of 'bad agents/publishers' - and this WAS in reference to the Writer's Beware list!!!.

I witnessed that. They attacked the messenger that posted the info, rather than debating why agents/publishers are on that list.

It was very sad. You'd think on a writer's board this info would be valuable.

Christine N.

12-02-2007, 04:14 PM

Mel

12-02-2007, 05:42 PM

Babel Fish & PA (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24741)
Hi Joseph-Thank you for asking how translations are done. It is quite simple. Copy a page of your book into your computer or if your manuscript is still in your computer files, select a page and click copy. Then go to Google Search, type in Translate English to German or French, Italian, Spanish,Polish, Ukrainian, Russian etc.
Select a translation program, most of them are free. In this case I used AltaVista Bable Fish Translator. In the translate box , paste in the contents of the selected page of your book. Select the translation that you require "English to German" then click the Translate button, in a few seconds the German translation comes up in the translated box.

Talking about PA doing foreign languages.

Yeah. Okay. I need more coffee.

jamiehall

12-02-2007, 06:45 PM

OMG, someone (I'm assuming Infomonster) CUT OUT the names of P&E and WB from Dick's post! Perhaps he did it himself, since there was a [...] in the place where the names used to be, but WOW.

What kind of business does that? Only the ones that have something to hide. With any other legitimate business, even if something bad had been said, they would have had the cojones to refute it.

That's really awful! Here PA has a knowledgeable person who has supported them over the long term, and they still treat him like this. It just shows they have no respect whatsoever for anyone. Even their supporters.

Jersey Chick

12-02-2007, 07:03 PM

Can't have anyone mention the Messageboard-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named, can we?

TwentyFour

12-02-2007, 07:04 PM

Babel Fish & PA (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24741)

Quote:
Hi Joseph-Thank you for asking how translations are done. It is quite simple. Copy a page of your book into your computer or if your manuscript is still in your computer files, select a page and click copy. Then go to Google Search, type in Translate English to German or French, Italian, Spanish,Polish, Ukrainian, Russian etc.
Select a translation program, most of them are free. In this case I used AltaVista Bable Fish Translator. In the translate box , paste in the contents of the selected page of your book. Select the translation that you require "English to German" then click the Translate button, in a few seconds the German translation comes up in the translated box.
Talking about PA doing foreign languages.

Yeah. Okay. I need more coffee.
What is hilarious is when you click translate so many times then go back to English, it comes up garbled and unreadable.

jamiehall

12-02-2007, 07:08 PM

What is hilarious is when you click translate so many times then go back to English, it comes up garbled and unreadable.

It sounds like a great way to create a spoof manuscript to send off to PA!

Christine N.

12-02-2007, 07:10 PM

And the thing is, he STILL won't say anything bad about them. He really feels they're 'just as good' as anyone else out there. I admire his fortitude, but his loyalty is misplaced. As soon as PA is finished with him, they'll toss him aside, like they do everyone else.

And now the link leads me to the PAMB sign-in page. Which means they've moved it to the private board. Way to go, PA, way to go.

Mel

12-02-2007, 07:16 PM

What is hilarious is when you click translate so many times then go back to English, it comes up garbled and unreadable.

Yes, and I guess what boggles my mind so much is the lack of Google search. I mean, come on, it doesn't take much time to find out all kinds of information out there. You've got time to post on PAMB, you've got time to punch whatever you're talking about into a search engine.

Then again, facts are never a high priority over there.

TwentyFour

12-03-2007, 12:24 AM

I was told by some from PAMB that Google/Yahoo Searches are not a way of finding out any info on writing or scams. Apparently anyone can google, but doesn't make the google facts actual facts. I believe that to a point, but not when I read published authors and editors saying the same thing repeatedly, it has to have some basis to fact.

It is said that if you are scammed by anyone, it is your own fault for misreading the contract or not understanding how the company works. D.Stod. mentions on his site about going to these meetings for Mystery Writers and how Mary Higgins Clark, as well as other big names, are there and he is in the same league since he attends. I'm sure Mary Higgins is in a much higher league than any or all of the PA authors combined. Her books are very popular and sold daily in bookstores all over the world.

Oh, and he and several other PA supporters left the board that shall not be named because they could not control the moderator and her opinions. In all fairness, I'm glad she didn't bow down to them, they were digging the board deeper into oblivion. At least now they might get some posters who know or want to know what real publishing is like.

edgyllama

12-03-2007, 02:07 AM

Oh, and he and several other PA supporters left the board that shall not be named because they could not control the moderator and her opinions. In all fairness, I'm glad she didn't bow down to them, they were digging the board deeper into oblivion. At least now they might get some posters who know or want to know what real publishing is like.

I'm surprised the big cheese on that board, who runs it, didn't tell the moderator to let up since he's so pro PA.

Someone posted the Writer Beware two-thumbs down list and of course it had that publisher on it and the chorus began that people didn't read their contracts before signing, they attacked the poster of the info, etc, until that moderator stepped in.

TwentyFour

12-03-2007, 02:14 AM

Oh, you didn't know the owner of the board said they are no longer welcome. Apparently they returned to post as guests and he had them promptly deleted. Tsk Tsk... Elvis has left the building.

DamaNegra

12-03-2007, 02:23 AM

What is hilarious is when you click translate so many times then go back to English, it comes up garbled and unreadable.

Even one translation completely screws it up. Seriously people, don't translate ANYTHING but single words using those things. They suck. Here, a simple sentence from Spanish to English:

Al niño le gustaba jugar con la pelota (the boy liked to play with the ball) translates to: To the boy it liked to play with the ball.

Can you imagine what Babelfish would do to an entire manuscript? *cringes*

TwentyFour

12-03-2007, 02:27 AM

LOL!

ebrillblaiddes

12-03-2007, 02:54 AM

Can you imagine what Babelfish would do to an entire manuscript? *cringes* When I was taking university-level spanish, some of my classmates used to use Babelfish for their papers...I always laughed a little on the inside when I glanced at their papers, saw something odd, looked again, and realized that they'd hit the Portuguese button by mistake...

Jersey Chick

12-03-2007, 03:57 AM

I used Babelfish to translate certain phrases into Spanish (my hero was Spanish) and I must've either typed one phrase in wrong or read it wrong because my editor commented on the fact that the hero called the heroine a pretty boy. Ooops. :D

Maybe I should run them by some Spanish speaking peoples on this board? ;)

TwentyFour

12-03-2007, 05:11 AM

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:03 pm Post subject: my book price is too high

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have tried to get someone to write me about the pricing, it is way to high for a paperback. Has anyone been able to get the price lowered after the release Date?? If so how? Then I feel bad for those who bought it a full price. This makes me sad, I
was just getting into the idea of this publisher now I am having doubts.

Feedback please.

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24663

Someone isn't happy.

Queen of Swords

12-03-2007, 05:11 AM

May or may not be deleted? (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24663)

I have tried to get someone to write me about the pricing, it is way to high for a paperback. Has anyone been able to get the price lowered after the release Date?? If so how? Then I feel bad for those who bought it a full price. This makes me sad, I was just getting into the idea of this publisher now I am having doubts.

Feedback please.

TwentyFour

12-03-2007, 05:27 AM

LOL, I just posted that?

Jersey Chick

12-03-2007, 07:48 AM

It's still there - but no responses. Not even purple snowflake... infomonster must be taking a little breather tonight.

tlblack

12-03-2007, 08:11 AM

I'm sure the author will get the standard PA reply, if she gets one at all. "The price of your book is within publishing standards for a book of its length... yadda, yadda, yadda. In the meantime, keep promoting. You can also take advantage of your 50% discount for the first order you place so you will have lots of copies of your book available to give away as Christmas gifts. Have a nice day."

Queen of Swords

12-03-2007, 01:56 PM

LOL, I just posted that?

At the same time, too! Rats. :)

But here's something new... remember the guy with the 136-page paperback poetry book priced at $19.95? He just received some valuable advice regarding bookstores (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24731).

I hope that you dont think that just because you wrote a book that everyone is going to run to a bookstore or go to amazon.com and purchase that book? That is just not going to happen as I am sure that you are finding out.

I think that was uncalled-for. No, the author probably didn't expect "everyone" to buy the book, but I'm sure he hoped someone would do so, which is not such a great expectation when you consider how glowing PA can be about submissions before the contract is signed.

All you can do is to promote your book anywhere and everywhere you go.

Which is what he was doing to begin with.

You will find that you will sell more books in person than through a bookstore or online. Sure on line reaches more people but many prefer to buy from the author.

Absurd nonsense. Firstly, I've personally met three authors, yet I have about a thousand books (and they aren't the authors of the entire thousand either). Why should people prefer to buy books directly from unknown authors, anyway, as opposed to picking up such a book in a store or a library, where you can browse first? Sure, you get a signature if you buy directly from the author, but I'm not that keen on the signature of a new author whose book I haven't read. Once I read the book and love it, only then does the autograph take on any value for me.

Secondly, this assumption automatically shrinks your readership down to the number of people you can personally meet and convince (and considering the price of that book, it'll take some convincing).

Finally, the sad part is that given the book in question, the statement may unfortunately be true, since no bookstore is likely to stock it and even if someone seeks it out on Amazon, as I did, the description of it on that website is not engaging. But Anti-Bookstore Guy is not likely to offer any constructive criticism as to rewrites of that description.

There are many books on amazon that have been there for years and have not sold ONE copy ever.

Tough love, minus the love.

Dont be so nieve to think that bookstores are your answer because 25% of all books sold in the US are sold in bookstores. You will sell books in places that you never imagined you would sell them.

And such places are...? Oh wait, I forgot : that post isn't about being helpful, it's about chastising the author because he dared to dream of selling his book online or in a bookstore.

Rolling Thunder

12-03-2007, 05:44 PM

Dont be so nieve to think that bookstores are your answer because 25% of all books sold in the US are sold in bookstores. You will sell books in places that you never imagined you would sell them.

I didn't even have to look. I've seen this advice repeated so many times over there I knew the poster's name without looking.

Jersey Chick

12-03-2007, 06:22 PM

Kind of scary, ain't it? :D

TwentyFour

12-03-2007, 07:08 PM

More sad and during the holidays, too. :(

Sparhawk

12-03-2007, 07:38 PM

Twas the night before Christmas,
And all through the plain,
PAvidians were weeping,
We could all feel their pain

High prices,
Poor discounts,
More typos to fix,
The poor PA newbie’s were having such fits.

When I looked at their message board I had a big fright,
The veteran PAvidians responded with all of their might;
“Try bake sales, used car lots, and church bazaars too;”
“You’re a published author you know what to do.”
“Marketing’s your job you ungrateful drek, PA is all knowing what did you expect?”
“Your contract was clear; you did fail to read; bookstores are off limits for PA authors you see,”

Then my computer did shake and my monitor pout,
For Infomonster had posted with a most vile shout,
“You ungrateful author, you soon shall be banned,
Questions are not tolerated in Happy Author land.”

“Your book is priced fairly for family and friends,
Now fall to your knees and please make amends.”

Drink deep of thine kool-aide and buy 50 books,
Give us no more of those unhappy author looks,
Don’t say were unfair, don’t say it’s a pain.
It’s just part of Author: The Role Playing Game.

CatSlave

12-03-2007, 11:20 PM

Oy to the world...

Queen of Swords

12-05-2007, 03:40 AM

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24797

There is a writers organization that will take PA members as full membership it's
http://www.epicauthors.com/
I used to be a member in this and I recedtly talked to the president PA authors are welcome. In fact some i http://bb.publishamerica.com/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif members use PA to reprint their ebooks as paperbacks.

Though they are an ebook organization they also allow print writers who have an interest in ebooks.
You get free ebooks on promotion as part of membership. They also do conferences.

I checked this site out. EPIC membership costs $30 and is open to "Authors who have at least one published work of fiction or non-fiction. This work may be published in either electronically and/or print, and includes publication by royalty-paying publishes, self-publishing, or subsidy-publishing." Good thing they didn't use the blunter term "vanity publishing"; that might have dissuaded some PA authors from writing out those $30 checks.

Christine N.

12-05-2007, 03:47 AM

Sheryl Nantus

12-05-2007, 03:55 AM

I'd like to know who's using PA to print out their paperbacks after being published in e-book format, myself.

Queen of Swords

12-05-2007, 04:10 AM

Not a bad bunch, and there have been talks about PA on the lists. In general most of those there know what PA is and what it is not.

Oh, that's good to hear. I was thinking that the money would be yet another promotional expense for the PA authors, but if it gets them out of the misinformative hothouse atmosphere of the PAMB and in contact with legit publishers, it's well spent.

jamiehall

12-05-2007, 06:16 AM

Many people here are members of EPIC. It's not that they WANT PA authors as members, but they will ALLOW them to join. I mean they're not actively seeking PA authors any more than they are authors from other publishers.

Not a bad bunch, and there have been talks about PA on the lists. In general most of those there know what PA is and what it is not.

The owners of Mundania, Zumaya, and several other publishers are also members.

It's good to know that EPIC is legitimate, instead of yet another service preying on PA authors.

I'd like to know who's using PA to print out their paperbacks after being published in e-book format, myself.

I'd like to know too! It sounds as if people are repeating garbled stories of folks reprinting through Lulu, which is totally different.

Oh, that's good to hear. I was thinking that the money would be yet another promotional expense for the PA authors, but if it gets them out of the misinformative hothouse atmosphere of the PAMB and in contact with legit publishers, it's well spent.

Yes, it'd be good to get them into an atmosphere where they can ask questions and receive something other than misinformation and censorship.

Jersey Chick

12-05-2007, 07:49 AM

It'll be good, but anyone who dares voice those questions and answers on the PAMB will find out how quickly a password can spoil.

Queen of Swords

12-05-2007, 11:22 PM

On the topic of writers' organizations... (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24808)

I am a co-founder of the Independent Authors Guild. We are going to be a force in the sea change of the publishing paradigm. We understand that quality is the key to this change but welcome authors from traditional publishers as well.

I love the "but" in the quoted sentence.

Jersey Chick

12-05-2007, 11:25 PM

First off, is it just me, or does that third sentence make very little sense? And second, someone must've teed off infomonster - I can't get to the PAMB.

edgyllama

12-05-2007, 11:32 PM

This Independent Author's Guild was founded two months ago by a PA author, it seems:

About two months ago, as a discussion group on Amazon.com for writers who had done a POD or small-press historical novel here.

And of course to stick it to The Man:

Think of “indie” as an "alternate delivery" , which serves the customer, whether filmgoer, music listener, enthusiast or reader with the range of choices they did not have heretofore. Big Publishing industry underserves people with particular tastes in genres. That problem has been solved in the other industries because they have turned to alternate delivery- or “indie” resources.

And from the front page:

No agent. No big publisher. You don't even have to set foot in New York, unless you really, really want to. You don't need the literary-industrial complex to find an audience of readers. You can go outside the corporation. This is the 21st century - and this is where you'll find truly original storytelling. The passion and the creativity, straight up and unfiltered.

So a group for self published and vanity authors? I hate to be snarky...but I don't get it.

Queen of Swords

12-05-2007, 11:39 PM

Happy new author (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24813)

Wow, I was so excited yesterday. The mail man brought me my $1.00 advance. I just sat there and stared at it with such pride.
My family just kinda shook thier head at me but you know what to me it was an accomplishment. I have been writing all my life.
I wrote a book about 5 years ago and Publish America didnt accept it. So that alone tells me that dont take just anything!
I am very proud of this stage in my life. HUMBLY proud.

I was just thinking, "do PA authors ever wonder what an average advance for a book is", but then I realized that on the PAMB, $1 is the across-the-board average. Write a poorly spelled ten-page poetry book, $1. Write an exhaustively researched and edited historical fiction doorstopper, $1. It's sad, but they don't seem to realize that there's something wrong about this. :(

Sparhawk

12-06-2007, 12:27 AM

On the topic of writers' organizations... (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24808)

I love the "but" in the quoted sentence.
<<Heavy Sigh>> :cry: I weep for the misguided.

VeggieChick

12-06-2007, 01:30 AM

Buy One, Get 2 Free (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24743)

Is she really giving you two free books if you buy one? That's actually really, really sad.

Monkey

12-06-2007, 01:45 AM

HOLIDAY SPECIAL: Author's Gift to You

Buy ONE book, get TWO books FREE!

(Hurry! Offer good while supply lasts!)

You pay only $14.95 (retail price) for first book and you get two more books for free. Indicate name of recipient and book(s) will be autographed for gift-giving.

Please note: We are able to ship via US Postal Service to USA addresses only. Books will be shipped via media mail. Shipping and Handling charge for 3 books is $3.05.

That's from her website.

Jersey Chick

12-06-2007, 02:47 AM

Oh wow. That's one of the more depressing things I've read all day. How sad.

Mel

12-06-2007, 02:55 AM

The buy 1, get 2 free says in her post.

I'm trying to reduce my inventory!

So one has to wonder how many she purchased and is now stuck with all those books taking up room in her house, garage, wherever.

Very sad.

Queen of Swords

12-06-2007, 03:10 AM

Those poor, misguided souls. PA has dragged them so far down that I wonder if they'll ever see the light of the real publishing world.

It's the crab-bucket syndrome : when you have a bucketful of crabs and one tries to climb out, the other lock their pincers around its little legs and pull it back in. Likewise, if someone voices interest in querying agents on the PAMB, Pipesmoker will chime in with misinformation about the impossibility of getting a good agent. If someone mentions Writer Beware or Preditors and Editors, infocenter will quickly delete that. And if someone mentions a problem with selling their overpriced unedited book, they will be told by one and all to "promote, promote, promote".

I'll bet that a sizeable number of PA authors start out excited with their book, happy to be a published author and eager to promote it. When the realities and the royalty checks for $2.32 hit them, they think that it must be their fault. They're not good writers. More importantly, they're not good promoters. Their enthusiasm and confidence in their work dwindle and they fade away from the PAMB. Finally they put their books and dreams away and go on with their lives. That's the end of their story.

A smaller number will realize that there's something not quite right about PA and will do some research. That's the start of theirs.

Sheryl Nantus

12-06-2007, 03:30 AM

*ANY* publisher that either forces or insinuates that the author must buy copies of their own work to be successful is to be avoided.

ANY.

'nuff said.

Afinerosesheis

12-06-2007, 06:50 AM

The best thing anyone can do is GET OFF that da*n board! Get banned or something, just get away from that cesspool of destruction.

Mel

12-06-2007, 07:13 AM

Queen, you're right. If they've never tasted the real world of publishing, and all they know is PA, they probably think that's how publishing works. Sad, very sad. It makes you wonder, though, if they've read any books about how publishing works -- how to write a proposal, how to find a publisher, how to get an agent -- then they must know something is wrong.

Pipesmoker assures them that this is how all publishers work. So many of them over there look up to him. Not saying he isn't a nice guy, but he gives them too much misinformation.

xhouseboy

12-06-2007, 04:19 PM

Pipesmoker assures them that this is how all publishers work. So many of them over there look up to him. Not saying he isn't a nice guy, but he gives them too much misinformation.

It's the photo that does it.

He projects the stereotype of a wise old sage, and he could be spouting utter nonsense (a lot of the time he is), and not many would challenge him on this.

Rolling Thunder

12-06-2007, 04:29 PM

It's the photo that does it.

He projects the stereotype of a wise old sage, and he could be spouting utter nonsense (a lot of the time he is), and not many would challenge him on this.

Not on the PAMB, at least. Well...there was a member who recently took umbrage to a comment DS made, so we'll see if that other member returns. The thread was deleted.

And the old fella runs like a pig from slaughter, when his advice is questioned. I saw it happen just last week on another board. His advice was just as bad there but he didn't like being called on it. Flounce-o-matic ensued.

Jersey Chick

12-06-2007, 05:35 PM

I don't get some of his advice - he's been writing a long time. And some of it is just so blatantly false, I have to wonder what his thought process is.

Christine N.

12-06-2007, 06:40 PM

It's that all his experience is from a different market than BOOKS. He's written for newspapers, magazines and anthologies, FWIU. His book experience seems to be limited, and he labors under the delusion that this business is one-size-fits-all.

I believe all his writer's affiliation groups are because of his short fiction, mostly magazine work.

Jersey Chick

12-06-2007, 06:56 PM

But still, even he can't believe some of the nonsense he spews. At least, I hope he can't.

Unless of course, it's simply a case of appealing to his sense of vanity. Which, I'm thinking, is probably 95% of it.

edgyllama

12-06-2007, 08:12 PM

I've encountered DS on a couple of boards before landing here. He seems a nice enough guy. Sometimes he says stuff that is really good advice and dead on. Other times, he misses the mark by a wide margin. Its almost as if there are two of them posting under the same name.

Joanna_S

12-07-2007, 02:29 AM

Sometimes it feels like PA is paying him to keep people in line.

emsuniverse

12-07-2007, 03:21 AM

Sometimes it feels like PA is paying him to keep people in line.

I don't think he's on the payroll, exactly - but I bet he gets free books and comped on other stuff. He's too much of a PA cheerleader to be perfectly innocent.

Jersey Chick

12-07-2007, 04:07 AM

Maybe it's based on how much fresh blood you bring in?

AC Crispin

12-07-2007, 04:09 AM

He's better than H.B. Marcus.

-Ann C. Crispin

Jersey Chick

12-07-2007, 04:13 AM

Unfortunately (or fortunately, I guess) HB was before my time. I get Pipesmoker. Hmm...

Popeyesays

12-07-2007, 04:16 AM

I don't think PA gives anyone ANYTHING.

Regards,
Scott

edgyllama

12-07-2007, 04:44 AM

I don't think PA gives anyone ANYTHING.

Regards,
Scott

Free books and such in exchange for good PR? They have before.

Gravity

12-07-2007, 04:50 AM

Ah, H.B. Marcus. I hope somebody kept the threads archived about him. It's classic. For a couple of years HB was king of the roost there. Had fawning sycophants, bragged he was able to get people banned, etc. And a lot of people were pretty sure he was being comped as a shill. Then one day he went bats, started posting paranoid delusions about who-knows-what, and then managed to get a couple of his toadies to act as if he'd killed himself, posting the whole drama like some Mercury Theater of the Air ripoff.

And then he resurrected himself (I swear to God, every word of this is true; old time AWers will remember it well).

By that time even PA had had their fill of the boy and kicked him to the curb. And after that...he vanished. Like Ozymandias. Never to be heard from again. It was one of the most singularly strange things I've ever seen.

Queen of Swords

12-07-2007, 05:23 AM

Here's the first post which mentioned H. B. Marcus's death (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=133242&postcount=12649).

The death announcement on the PAMB stated that when he began having severe headaches, Mr. Marcus "went to the hospital and hit a lot of people and complained for hours." He also worked on his laptop and downloaded music at the hospital while blood samples were taken. Shortly afterwards he supposedly died, and within a few hours of his death, his widow informed his PA family about the loss.

One quote from the PAMB about his death was worth repeating.

We also need to take ahold of his torch and become a stronger advocate for Publish America, as he did. He had complete trust and faith in his publisher, their abilities and their mission...now I feel, he has passed the torch to us, along with the torch of humor and compassion.

Or maybe not. Infocenter deleted the relevant posts. Someone admitted that it was a hoax and that Mr. Marcus had orchestrated it to protect his family from another PA poster. I'm reminded of that Babylon 5 novel where G'Kar's life is threatened, so he rigs a ship to explode and everyone thinks he was on the ship, except that it feels wrong to put G'Kar and H. B. Marcus in the same thought.

I wonder if he ever came back under another name.

Afinerosesheis

12-07-2007, 06:44 AM

Sounds just like the kind of drivel that abounds at the PA board. I've heard the Marcus story before but it was long before I came there. I highly suspect there are still some who get paid in books to sing their songs at the PAMB. Maybe some think a load of books is worth being idiots!?

BarbJ

12-07-2007, 07:27 AM

Thread of the Living Dead (Shemp), I believe is where the tale is told (on the last page of this board). It was before my time, but I remember scanning it. It's ... beyond description. If I remember correctly, he "died" to protect himself from a woman who lives in another country and never threatened him. He came back because, presumably, he couldn't stand keeping his mouth shut.

The entire brou-ha-ha gave me a skeptical view of the PA sages; guilt by association may be unjust, but anyone who deliberately lures others into the maws of literary death known as PA has earned guilt. If they know enough about writing and publishing to speak at all intelligibly, they know PA is, as our PA escapee Mel says, a cesspool. Yet still they yammer on and on and on...

I don't condemn PA authors; back in the days of my youth and innocence (what a memory) I was scammed. I do condemn PA and those who have heard/read the questions and complaints and responses and tone letters and lies, have been told the truth repeatedly, have received the "royalty checks", store rejections, complaints about shipping, cost and condition from friends and family, have read the excerpts in plain need of editing, have - oh, why go on? I condemn the dealers more than the druggies, although the druggies do need to open their eyes before they themselves become,
God forbid, PA sages.

Rant over.

No, it's not! People, run away! Run! Faster!

I have got to get some work done. Stop distracting me. :D

emsuniverse

12-07-2007, 08:29 AM

I've wondered for awhile now if HB is back and going under another name. I wouldn't doubt it.

I looked up HB and found a lovely article where he's mentioned and it said where he lived. Then I looked up Pipesmoker and found out about where he lives... Approximately 45 minutes away from each other.

I am not saying that they are the same man. At all. I just find it interesting.

It's amazing who is listed in the Whitepages... People who run fake publishing houses and lawyers who defend them.

ResearchGuy

12-07-2007, 10:11 AM

I don't think PA gives anyone ANYTHING.
They gave one PA author I know a trip to Iceland a few years ago, back when they had "Publish Icelandica." Made quite a fuss over that one, who remains a relentless advocate for PA.

--Ken

Queen of Swords

12-07-2007, 12:08 PM

This PA thread was locked. (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24850)

PA is a business entity and no one need to tell you that. When you use the forum and you insult the world or an author or badmouth his/her book you may be hurting the business of the company, a company that was nice to publish your book without you paying a penny.

...when it comes to business, PA has the right to delete and censor all nonsense and garbage that hurt not only people but also PA's business. To be here is not a right but only privilege . If I am wrong let the PA monitor correct me.

Pipesmoker chimes in.

Knocking another writer, an agent or a publisher says more about the person doing the knocking than it does about their target.

Depends on what form the "knocking" takes. If it's backed up by facts about how unethical PA a publisher is, or reasoning about how Pipesmoker a writer is wrong in some of his pronouncements regarding the publishing industry, the only people likely to complain about it are those who resent criticism of their own platform or of their publisher's shyster methods.

As for the OP, the author's trying to eat his cake and have it. On the one hand, PA is a business. On the other, PA is so nice that it gives all its authors something for nothing. And there are enough threads about problems with selling books, so I wonder how he thinks PA is financially compensated for this benevolence. Government grants, perhaps?

brianm

12-07-2007, 06:32 PM

Government grants, perhaps?

Naw, we all know those grants go to Halliburton.

JimmyD1318

12-07-2007, 07:21 PM

Naw, we all know those grants go to Halliburton.

:ROFL:Good one! Bravo! Encore!

Monkey

12-07-2007, 07:53 PM

:roll:

So they censored the post about how they have every right to censor, huh? Or rather, they stopped that line of conversation in its tracks, less it get too close to the truth.

Let's hear it for PA, folks!

:e2tomato:

Jersey Chick

12-07-2007, 08:03 PM

I'll take Door Number Two. Can't have anyone suggesting anything improper now, can we?

JimmyD1318

12-07-2007, 08:30 PM

Knocking another writer, an agent or a publisher says more about the person doing the knocking than it does about their target.

Pipesmoker said this? Okay...then why does he have a link to P&E on his website? Seems to me he is trying to straddle the fence on this subject.

Afinerosesheis

12-07-2007, 09:12 PM

A kind soul just sent me a link to the truth of the HB Marcus fiasco. So sad and so dispicable that anyone would go to such lengths for a publisher. I mean I can see loyalty for family or loved ones, but something like that?

My goodness, the poor souls who suffered over it. And it makes me want to ask WHY some people (not newbies) still post there after being treated like that? Marcus may be gone, but there are some there who are probably just as sinister the way they mistreat other authors. And PA lets it happen.

I was sad to read that, but informed.

Hope everyone has a great day.
I'm on my way to a tax class =(

Queen of Swords

12-07-2007, 09:20 PM

This might be interesting. (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24861)

I wanted to let all you PA authors know of my good news. http://bb.publishamerica.com/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

I am soon to be Published at Lulu. My new book is called...
Who Stole Grandpa's Teeth?

I am waiting on my book that they have sent for my approval..it should come on Monday or Tuesday. I have to scan it with a fine tooth comb..
After I check it out I go back to Lulu and approve it.

Deleted by infocenter or attacked by loyal PAvidians? Any bets?

Jersey Chick

12-07-2007, 09:22 PM

Hmm... it depends on who sees it first. I'm going for delete for $200 Queen. :D

triceretops

12-07-2007, 10:09 PM

Either that or the thread is just too dangerous to touch and will go unanswered. She does have a PA book out just recently. Perhaps her second book was rejected on the grounds of coming in too soon after the first.

Tri

emsuniverse

12-07-2007, 10:52 PM

I'll bet that they're going to all chime in with "Why are you paying to be published when the Almighty PA will do it for free?"

I doubt people will stay away from the thread, since this is the perfect chance to broadcast their support for PA. That will both lure new authors to the group and also help the devout Pavidians show their love fior their publisher.

Jersey Chick

12-07-2007, 11:19 PM

So far, it's shaping up as a total washout. No response. No delete. No nothin'.

of course, it's still early.

DeadlyAccurate

12-08-2007, 12:32 AM

So far, it's shaping up as a total washout. No response. No delete. No nothin'.

of course, it's still early.

I'm getting an error now, so maybe it's gone. They probably only come here two or three times a day to see what threads they should look for. That would explain the delay.

Richard White

12-08-2007, 12:39 AM

Just clicked on the link and I got to the message.

I get the feeling everyone's avoiding it like the plague.

Jersey Chick

12-08-2007, 12:51 AM

I just got an error message - I think someone's busy deleting...

Mel

12-08-2007, 02:00 AM

It's still there, no comments, not locked. I wonder how much they monitor that part of the board, though. Maybe they've been too busy to come over here to check what we find. On the other hand, they sure do spend lots of time locking threads in the Spirituality room. Around 11 on the first 3 pages.

Mel

12-08-2007, 02:17 AM

New job (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24731)
It is definately all about the promotion and marketing. If you are on campus find a way to get it into the library. Use the net, make yourself visible. Hang up posters where you can. The genre is important because you have to concentrate on those who are interested. Promote, market, promote, market. That's your new job. Press releases are in competition with thousands of others. What makes your book special? That's what the editors need to know.

Bold mine.

So, you wrote a book, then you get published. That's it, you're done with that phase of your life. Now you have a new job.

:Hammer:

tlblack

12-08-2007, 02:35 AM

I'd rather let the publisher do the marketing while I wrote another book.

Queen of Swords

12-08-2007, 02:43 AM

So, you wrote a book, then you get published. That's it, you're done with that phase of your life. Now you have a new job.

From the same thread, posted by Anti-Bookstore Guy,

There is a book offered on the front page of the PublishAmerica website titled "Published Authors Guide to Promotion" written by successful authors of PublishAmerica who are sharing their expertise with us.

Let's just hope that the earnings from the new job will pay for all the promotional necessaries, like this sure-fire guide. It does make me wonder, though, how they define "successful" on the PAMB.

As for the "new job" part, that also makes me wonder. Is it possible that that particular author's dream was always to be a marketer, except that until now he didn't have a suitable product? (Well, he still doesn't, but anyway). If authors are so busy with their new job of promoting and marketing, what happens to the old job of writing? Is that no longer wanted or needed?

I can't imagine stifling all the stories I haven't yet written, spending my time and creative energy on ways to coax bookstore managers, persuade strangers, sneak my book onto shelves when no one's looking, and so on. "New job", indeed. Was that the primary purpose of your writing, PA authors? To land you a "new job" as a salesperson?

Rolling Thunder

12-08-2007, 02:53 AM

Many define success by the simple act of PA selecting their book for publication.

Jersey Chick

12-08-2007, 03:00 AM

Hmm.. it's working again (stupid computer gremlins) and still no answers... Very interesting...

Mel

12-08-2007, 03:32 AM

I can't imagine stifling all the stories I haven't yet written, spending my time and creative energy on ways to coax bookstore managers, persuade strangers, sneak my book onto shelves when no one's looking, and so on. "New job", indeed. Was that the primary purpose of your writing, PA authors? To land you a "new job" as a salesperson?

Boggles the mind, doesn't it?

Oh, wait, that's what the author is suppose to do! Because no publisher out there does any marketing for you. That is the author's job. Just ask the PA authors.

Whew, glad we all got that straight now.

/sarcasm

Monkey

12-08-2007, 03:40 AM

Congrats!! I too have children books through Lulu. I am near completion of a childrens website and am looking for children books to add. If you'd like to have yours added please send me your links!

Just posted on the thread in question. Seems more than one PA author is seeking the tender affections of that sultry mistress, Lulu.

I wonder how long this will go unpunished?

Afinerosesheis

12-08-2007, 03:43 AM

I'd rather let the publisher do the marketing while I wrote another book.

Amen! I don't mind helping out with marketing , but I don't intend to do it all. Couldn't afford to on my royalties. Of course, I learned all that here. You won't learn that over there.

Jersey Chick

12-08-2007, 03:44 AM

I'm sensing new types of tone letters...**sniffs** yep - they're in the air tonight. :D

Monkey

12-08-2007, 07:34 AM

It's gone. Deleted.

Why am I not suprised?

Mel

12-08-2007, 06:34 PM

The post about being "Published" at Lulu is gone. Wonder if infocrap found it on their own or had to search here first.

ETA: sorry, Monkey, didn't see your post.

Jersey Chick

12-08-2007, 06:54 PM

I knew it! I must be pyschic ;)

JulieB

12-08-2007, 07:02 PM

I knew it! I must be pyschic ;)

It's a side-effect from all those times you've set your hair on fire. ;-)

Jersey Chick

12-08-2007, 08:07 PM

Fire can be useful! :D

Queen of Swords

12-09-2007, 12:25 AM

Myelephantbites.com (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24885)

A new website offers a quick and inexpensive way to advertise your books- this is the most impressive site I have seen in a long time. A single photo (or a series of photos) can be easily and quickly turned into a "movie" or an ad and emailed to increase your sales. I was amazed at the low price of about $5.00 for this wonderful service.

It's been a long day at work and I don't have the energy to check out this website. Anyone else care to do the honors?

Mel

12-09-2007, 01:24 AM

A bit disgruntled here
(http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24731)
Oh yah you though that is it..write something and it goes on amazon then you got it made...welcome to the club man.This is nothing sorry to say.My advice to you is;You wrote a book that is good be happy about it but if you expect to sell constant good numbers,(even one per month) you will be lucky.In the long run if you want to sell you have to advertise and pay money but get real you are not a known writer and people, 90 % read only stuff from people who they know or if there is a scandal attached to it.If you want everybody to know about your book prepare a hefty sum but that won't be 100 % too.All that other stuff about going to book stores and mouth to mouth stuff that is all ^&*% to keep your hopes up.Imagine you were the guy in the book store and he had limited space and has to make $$$.Will he sell a harry potter or will he sell a book from some joe somebody.Internet book stores they will put their book on their list gladly because it does not take any space but most of the time 99.9 % it is another ISBN for show.

Not one of the happy, happy PA authors, for sure.

Queen of Swords

12-09-2007, 01:29 AM

Some of it's accurate enough - the part about going from bookstore to bookstore and hoping that word of mouth will sell the book - but are the only books in this guy's house from people he knows or associated with scandals? I wonder why bookstores don't have a Scandal Section to cater to those 90% of people.

Komnena

12-09-2007, 01:35 AM

myelephantbites seems to be a vanity photo into movie thing.

JulieB

12-09-2007, 05:28 AM

myelephantbites seems to be a vanity photo into movie thing.

And the post was deleted.

DaveKuzminski

12-09-2007, 08:05 AM

Is selling one book per month a good number? ... But, then, maybe that's the standard number of sales for a PA book in a month.

Actually, that's the amount PA expects the book to sell before it earns out and PA makes that as difficult as possible to ever happen so their writers feel obligated to self-purchase their books for seven years.

In a perverse way, that only goes to show that PA does understand some of how publishing operates and is doing their utmost to use that to their own advantage.

tlblack

12-09-2007, 08:35 AM

[quote=Odyssey;1871019]
Is selling one book per month a good number? quote]

For royalty purposes it falls between 0 and 6 a year.

Out of the trunk of your car... guess it all depends on how good a sales person you are.

emsuniverse

12-09-2007, 10:39 AM

Komnena

12-09-2007, 05:50 PM

It bothers me to no end when PA faithfuls bash bookstores and making us sound like Nazis. There is no conspiracy, we don't stock just big named authors or books from big name publishers. For God's sake, we aren't the enemy trying to hold PA authors back from their fame and glory of being a Published Author! That would be the Stooges' job. They are the ones sabotaging authors at every turn, not us.

Okay, I feel better now.

Bookstores are not responsible for the way PA makes it impossible for their books to be profitably sold. The PA authors should go to a bookstore and actually look at all the books on bookstore shelves.

Jersey Chick

12-09-2007, 06:56 PM

But why? Only 25% of all books are sold in bookstores. What would be the point? ;)

JimmyD1318

12-09-2007, 07:44 PM

But why? Only 25% of all books are sold in bookstores. What would be the point? ;)

Ohhhh...yeah! That's right! Thanks for reminding me about that!:D

Komnena

12-09-2007, 08:26 PM

I guess I forgot this little statistic. I suppose therefore I can forget about that $5.00 of Borders Bucks in my email.

Afinerosesheis

12-09-2007, 09:42 PM

What is so sad is the newbies that try to get in the bookstores, calling them and visiting only to get the run around. Oh it's the bookstore's fault, no it's the publisher's. Then the newb goes back to the PAMB only to be told that it was their fault for not trying hard enough. They call PA to be told it will be taken care of, then the bookstore tells them again of the facts and, by the way, PA never called. This is depressing.

The newb either:
A) tries even harder to promote, begs and spends even more money on promotional tools to no avail, all the while buying into the crap at the PAMB.

or

B)They finally get tired of it and start to realize maybe it isn't their fault at all and proceed to better themselves and find other avenues for publishing future works.

BOOKSTORES RARELY (IF EVER) CARRY PA BOOKS BECAUSE IT IS NOT GOOD BUSINESS!!!!!!!

Mel

12-09-2007, 10:44 PM

What do book store managers know? (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24895)
They had a manager in 2004/5 who said: Your book is too thin and only 50 pages. So I made sure the second one was over 100 and went back there. The new manager said: "Our profit for this book is too little." I was surprised to hear it.
So, by now perhaps they have a new manager.

And if this manager says approximately the same thing, then they'll be wrong too?
:e2hammer:

Afinerosesheis

12-09-2007, 11:08 PM

What do book store managers know? (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24895)

And if this manager says approximately the same thing, then they'll be wrong too?
:e2hammer:

Just for fun I clicked on about fifteen to twenty of these links looking for my book. I found it on ONE. On that ONE I doubt if any has sold. Several of the links didn't work and a couple of them just took you to another search engine. I give this guy kudos for going to all the trouble, but I wonder if it is really worth it. Just more (false) hope to give to authors. Some may go to great lengths to contact all these bookstores only to be disappointed in the end.

Queen of Swords

12-10-2007, 12:25 AM

For the past few weeks, I've set aside each Saturday morning to work on an article about PublishAmerica. I planned to back up my statements in that article with quotes from the PAMB, because I know I wouldn't have believed half the things about PA if not for there being plenty of evidence supplied by its own authors. Well, that strategy worked only too well, since I collected fifteen pages of quotes last week and each time I look at that board there's something new, some fresh quote that beautifully illustrates a point I've made. It never stops. It's great for the article, but depressing for the authors.

Gratian Gasparri

12-11-2007, 03:02 AM

Then one day he went bats, started posting paranoid delusions about who-knows-what, and then managed to get a couple of his toadies to act as if he'd killed himself, posting the whole drama like some Mercury Theater of the Air ripoff.

And then he resurrected himself (I swear to God, every word of this is true; old time AWers will remember it well).

From what I recall, he did it Easter weekend too!

Didn't he also try and debate Uncle Jim at one time?

jamiehall

12-11-2007, 03:08 AM

From what I recall, he did it Easter weekend too!

Didn't he also try and debate Uncle Jim at one time?

There's a pretty good summary of most of the action here (http://www.wizardessbooks.com/PA_stories/story_linda.htm). I know there was more, though.

JimmyD1318

12-11-2007, 03:09 AM

Didn't he also try and debate Uncle Jim at one time?

I don't know if he ever tried something that fooloish. I know one woman that tried and failed and Jeff Miller tried also. The key word in that sentance is 'tried'.

Jersey Chick

12-11-2007, 06:08 AM

Man, I missed all the fun! :D

spike

12-11-2007, 06:10 AM

Delurking for a moment.

mouth to mouth

What is mouth to mouth promotion? Does it involve kissing?

Going back to lurking and my WIP.

Mel

12-11-2007, 08:35 AM

Published before (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24799)
This is interesting topic. I had published before I published 2 books with PA.

If I may ask. Did other publishers pay royalties. Mine did.

In fact, I have manuscripts almost ready for a publisher. I will really appreciate, if someone can suggest publishers who pay royalties. I am not looking for big names who accept only through agents if they do. Thanks in advance. PA pays royalties. Ask them, they'll tell you they do. Wonder if they set it out clear enough that those are suppose to go to the authors and not in their own pockets, though.

And, I wonder if anyone gives this person names of publishers on that thread how long do they think PA will allow it to stand.

Oh, and for some reason I can't pass up quoting PA at the top of the pages there.
Welcome to PublishAmerica's Author Message Board! Here PublishAmerica authors can voice your questions or comments.I know, I know, they don't state that those questions and comments will not be deleted, or mangled to say something different than what the poster wrote.

Queen of Swords

12-13-2007, 03:28 AM

Angels Prices we have heard on are high (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24936)

An author who has previously pointed out the detrimental cost of her book posted the following.

PA has finally dropped the price a smidge, $24.95. I bought a bunch of books at their big Christmas discount... My cost for the book is $12.00. I'll sell it to PA authors for whatever above the $12.00 you wish to pay as my "royalty" plus $2.44 shipping cost in the U.S. I'd really like you to post a review too if you like it, and tell your friends to buy it. It makes a great holiday gift, full of holiday stories and a bright red cover. Just send me your check for $14.44 plus some profit for me (or none as $14.44 is probably still steep for us starving authors)

I can't help wondering if someone will offer to buy it in return for this author buying their book.

Queen of Swords

12-13-2007, 03:37 AM

And this is just plain iffy... (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24945)

A new author posted a "synopsis" of his work.

Wind groaned through the morning mist, carrying a smell of doom
from the east that would change the world forever.

This sounds like a parody of the first line of Eragon (which I believe is, "Wind howled through the night, carrying a scent that would change the world"). His excerpt then describes "Urgogs" hiding in wait in a forest, preparing to kill someone, which again is a bit Paolini-inspired. Not sure if he's for real, but his website looks nice, other than none of the links working.

jamiehall

12-13-2007, 04:12 AM

And this is just plain iffy... (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24945)

A new author posted a "synopsis" of his work.

This sounds like a parody of the first line of Eragon (which I believe is, "Wind howled through the night, carrying a scent that would change the world"). His excerpt then describes "Urgogs" hiding in wait in a forest, preparing to kill someone, which again is a bit Paolini-inspired. Not sure if he's for real, but his website looks nice, other than none of the links working.

I've gone through it and mentioned similarities to Eragon in red:

Below is the synopsis:

Wind groaned through the morning mist, carrying a smell of doom
from the east that would change the world forever. Extremely similar first line! A cloaked stranger
loomed in the fading shadows and scowled at the climbing sunlight
through slitted eyes, as it rippled over the tiny streets of Overwich. Icy
clouds smothered its glow with a blanket of withered gray, as flashes of
livid lightning flickered on the horizon.
The stranger leered through the trees in anticipation. Eragon's Shade and Urgals are hiding behind trees and bushes. After two
hundred years of waiting, Eragon's Shade had also waited a very long time the warning had been given: they were here. Eragon's fifth sentence says "The message had been correct: they were here." But where? He hesitated and then gave his command, “Kill them if you
must.” Eragon's Shade's first command is to kill.
Surrounding the hooded stranger stood three Urgogs, with cloaks of
black satin that glowed in the rising sun. They stood in silence beside their Master, gripping their wands and peering through the trees, waiting for the battle to begin. The Urgogs scattered into the brush, Eragon has "hurried into the brush" like shadows in the mist, but the stranger and his death army did not find what they were looking for.
To the west, and far beyond the grasp of the stranger and the Urgogs,
at the edge of the city, a brilliant glaze of ice and ash suddenly formed on the street lamps outside. The glowing filaments in each bulb shrank and dimmed, while traffic signals and electric lamps across town suddenly lost all power. A large tawny-colored hawk Eragon's first page has an owl peered down onto the streets below, while a burst of red fog appeared on the street corner, in which mysterious, indistinct shadows restled from within.

The street was covered in a thin film of ice and mist, and footsteps
from invisible feet came pattering across the asphalt. A silvery cloud of
white mist swirled into a thick column of red smoke that threw out thin
tendrils; licking the air like serpent tongues before withdrawing. There
was barely a discernible pause, as two bright blue eyes appeared from the center of the ash cloud.
It seemed an invisible power had invaded the quiet little
neighborhoods of Overwich, but nary a soul could predict the doom that
threatened its very existence.

Danny and Nicholas Edwards didn’t know their lives were in danger, Eragon also has two brothers in danger.
or that the Urgogs had invaded their little town. The world as they knew it, from that day forward, would never be the same again. They didn’t know about the Book of Secrets or The Great Happening yet. They didn’t know it would soon be up to them to save the world.

I think it starts out extremely like Eragon, then gradually diverges. Plus, the writing style is quite similar. I think it's probably unintentional. Someone just got influenced way too much by a favorite book.

jamiehall

12-13-2007, 05:05 AM

From the same author, lower down on the page: (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24945)

Right now, there is just a "Coming Soon" page so that people can get an idea of what it will look like. I'm trying to create hype for the launch date.

Sadly, this doesn't sound like a good marketing idea at all. Creating pre-launch hype for a website? Aren't websites all about creating pre-launch hype for other things? Something's backwards here.

emsuniverse

12-13-2007, 08:57 AM

That woman probably thought that she should write a book kind of like Eragon, since that book has done so well. If the book was similar to Eragon maybe it will sell like Eragon.

Um... Eragon is 768 pages and sells for $7.

Anyone want to guess at how much her book is selling for?

Queen of Swords

12-14-2007, 09:09 PM

This thread has taken an interesting turn... (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24001&start=15)

...a quite different one from the usual "promote, promote, promote" song.

I'm curious. Did the authors who had their books rejected for lack of sales buy copies of their books themselves?

No one answered this author, and her next post in the thread begins,

I canceled the contract with PA.

Wonder if that will stay and if so, how much criticism from the faithful it'll receive. So far the only reply is a sad one.

I had it rejected due to lack of sales. I have no money so I can't buy any copies of my book. My husband and I are poor since I'm a housewife and he is an international student who can't work outside his University because the USA refuses to give international students social security numbers. I also have no time, money or means to promote my book other then stick my website on as many websites as possible in hopes that someone will be intrested in stopping by and seeing the cover and hopefully buy my book.

emsuniverse

12-15-2007, 12:04 AM

It'll be gone by midnight EST.

Queen of Swords

12-15-2007, 04:51 AM

I really hope that author doesn't take this seriously (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24001&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30&sid=7902f8011526a430e82b2e04e3cdf5c1)

Remember the author who said PA rejected her second book? The wife of the sweet dear autistic husband replied to say,

You have a story to tell about your struggle finding a publisher and about how you promised your father that you would publish your second book! There is not a newspaper out there who would not want to write an article about you.

Maybe a publisher would read your article and decide maybe they would like to publish your second book for you!

... Because that's all that it takes to get a book published. The editor doesn't need to read the book or speak to the author or discuss it with an acquisitions board. Seriously, the only publishers who might jump at this opportunity will be other vanity presses.

Just be sure when you are interviewed not to use the name of your current publisher because legally that may be deemed slander.

It's slander to even mention PA? Or it's slander to say that they rejected a novel? Wait, why am I expecting this to make any sense at all?

brianm

12-15-2007, 05:07 AM

Wait, why am I expecting this to make any sense at all?

:roll:

Because it's Friday? And you're tired? And you want it to make sense?

Mel

12-15-2007, 05:26 AM

Is this (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24981)something PA started recently? I don't remember hearing about it before, but I might have missed it.
I received a disturbing email this evening from someone in the Text Department in the email they told me that:

“Permissions:

PublishAmerica requests a copy of the expressed, written permissions you have obtained from the real-life persons you refer to or describe in your book. This permission should indicate that they are aware of what you are writing and that they permit you to print it for distribution and sale.

OR, if you are unable to obtain such permissions,

PublishAmerica requests that you revise your manuscript, and re-submit a novel that allows the book to truthfully state that "All characters in this book are fictitious, and any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is coincidental."

Please contact me within one week with your plan to address these issues.”

This is utterly absurd, as PA has known from my initial query letter what my book is about, and this was never mentioned when they contracted with me to write the book, or when I submitted the final manuscript several weeks ago. I attempted to call the office, and when I did so I was told that they didn’t know the name of the person whom I received the email from, and furthermore that they would only be able to talk with me via email.

I immediately sent an email (they had emailed me 30 minutes prior) but given that it was the end of the day on Friday I’m guessing I will hear nothing until Monday. I am furious at this point, because the final manuscript of my book clearly states that ALL NAMES AND LOCATIONS HAVE BEEN CHANGED and as such there is no way which I can be held libel (yes I have spoken with an attorney). It is my sincere hope that this was just a clerical error, because there is nothing more than I can do on this front, and Publish America knew what my book was going to be about from the beginning. I’m just shocked that this is happening, I’m a published author who writes non-fiction and have my second book coming out from a different publisher in a few months and let me tell you I would NEVER be treated this way by them.

Has anyone else dealt with this? I know that many of you also write non-fiction what has the situation with PA been like for you in this regard?There is a post after this one. I really like that guy.

triceretops

12-15-2007, 05:48 AM

Gratian Gasparri

12-15-2007, 06:09 AM

Here's a post on the PAMB that makes me feel sorry for this particular author (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24962):

I am not only an author, but I am also a full time student; working on becoming a doctor. I have a problem and I need some advice. I have really been having difficulty trying to juggle a husband, daughter (16) and all of this. I don't know which way to go. I have undergone a lot of heartbreak to get to where I am now, but it feels like everything is suffering. I know my book is selling pretty good, because I get visits from people all over the world, but it seems with school plus trying to promote my book I'm not doing enough. Please help.

Jersey Chick

12-15-2007, 06:36 AM

Is this (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=24981)something PA started recently? I don't remember hearing about it before, but I might have missed it.
There is a post after this one. I really like that guy.

Damn - that post is gone with the wind...

Of course, I can't say I'm surprised. Well, I could, but it'd be a big, fat lie.

Mel

12-15-2007, 06:47 AM

I'll betcha bottle caps that that new directive is tied into that Dr. Phil thingy, where the mother tried to claim copyright of the daughter's book, because said book was forecast to make three million dollars. Remember that one? That's not the only libel/slander cases that PA has seen--they've had a mess of scandals in that regard. Vic is probably the author of that piece.

Tri

So it's only sent to those who write non-fiction?

I've done some head shakes when I see a few of them say their characters are based on real people, family and friends (use their names, too). As far as I know, those are the fiction writers, but still, could cause trouble down the road if there's a falling out between them. I remember reading in a lot of how-tos that you never, ever base one character on someone you know. Use a mix of them to create one character, or make them up.

Mel

12-15-2007, 06:50 AM

Damn - that post is gone with the wind...

Of course, I can't say I'm surprised. Well, I could, but it'd be a big, fat lie.

Glad I copied it, then. She wasn't a happy camper about receiving it.

ETA: click the link and get "The topic or post you requested does not exist" Ha! Yes, it does, right over here. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Jersey Chick

12-15-2007, 06:59 AM

It's been too quiet over there. Someone's gotta go postal on those boards soon or I'll have to resort to drastic measures of the flaming-hair kind. And I kinda didn't want to be bald for Christmas. :D

AnneMarble

12-15-2007, 07:39 AM

I'll betcha bottle caps that that new directive is tied into that Dr. Phil thingy, where the mother tried to claim copyright of the daughter's book, because said book was forecast to make three million dollars. Remember that one? That's not the only libel/slander cases that PA has seen--they've had a mess of scandals in that regard. Vic is probably the author of that piece.
Oooh, that could be it. I'd forgotten about that thingy (isn't that the Icelandic parliament :tongue).

Another possibility could be that they were worried about all those memoirs they publish. Wasn't there one memoir where the author claimed most of her family members were evil witches and warlocks or something? I'm surprised there haven't been more law suits about those books. Or maybe there have been, and we don't know.

Oh, and I thought of another one! Remember that law suit in the summer of 2006 where Rebecca Brandewyne won a suit against AuthorHouse because they published her ex-husband's "memoir" where he made lots of nasty claims about her? I'm surprised it took PA this long to think of protecting themselves from that sort of suit. Then again, we know their lawyer has been a little slow on the uptake at times.
:e2tongue:

DaveKuzminski

12-15-2007, 07:40 AM

It's slander to even mention PA? Or it's slander to say that they rejected a novel? Wait, why am I expecting this to make any sense at all?

Sounds to me like PA is trying to intimidate some of their writers before they jump ship and spill the truth about PA.

triceretops

12-15-2007, 07:47 AM

Another possibility could be that they were worried about all those memoirs they publish. Wasn't there one memoir where the author claimed most of her family members were evil witches and warlocks or something? I'm surprised there haven't been more law suits about those books. Or maybe there have been, and we don't know.

Oh, Anne, you beat me to it! Correctamundo.

Yeah, Dave, that too. But PA doesn't read the books, remember? So now they have the authors doubling up as content editors to protect the company. Any normal editor, reading a manuscript, would flag such hot spots. At least mine did

"Chris, how dare you say such things like that about MacDonalds! Please remove such offensive accusations."

"Yezzzzz...um."

Tri

DaveKuzminski

12-15-2007, 08:21 AM

Let's not blame Vic for specializing in real estate. How could he have known that the housing market would implode? I mean, it's not like he could have had anything to do with helping people get balloon payments on their interest rates.

Hey, just think about it for a moment. Maybe PA wants Vic to somehow figure out a way to include balloon payments in the PA prices for their books? All they need is an installment plan that lets the authors pay a token dime to have the books printed and mailed to them. Then they can pay for the books over the seven years of the contract so that by then they'll have paid oodles more than otherwise.

Wow, who would have thunk it that Vic's real estate expertise might come in so handy for handling intellectual property?

Afinerosesheis

12-18-2007, 07:52 PM

Dear PublishAmerica author,
Numbers: This year a record more than 5,000 new authors have been joining your ranks. Each day, more than one hundred new authors are requesting to become your peers. PublishAmerica will soon cross the mark of having three million books in print. Last week, bookstores ordered a PublishAmerica book 800 times each day! We sell a book every fifteen seconds.

Now what does all these numbers have to do with me? I'd like to see them in my royalty checks. It is "hurry up and accept any submission and not promote any of them at all"

Ninth: As PublishAmerica enters its ninth year of spectacular growth, we pledge to remain the number one traditional book publisher that offers tens of thousands of authors an opportunity to shine, by making their work available for audiences from coast to coast, at no cost to the author. PublishAmerica is in the business of realizing a writer's dream at no charge. At no one else's risk but its own, PublishAmerica has to date invested more than fifteen million dollars in producing and marketing its library of literary works, written by our legion of talented authors such as yourself.

Is the only way I can SHINE is to go broke promoting and buying all kinds of promotional material to do it? Fifteen million in marketing? When? Where? How?

Names: PublishAmerica welcomes Barbara Ann Alston who was a lead singer of the 1960s pop group The Crystals (with hits such as: Then He Kissed Me, He's a Rebel, Da Doo Ron Ron, There's No Other). Also welcome to Dave Ogilvie, author of The Golfer's Dream. He is a member of the PGA Hall of Fame class of 2005 and the 1986 PGA Golf Professional of the Year. Other new PublishAmerica celebrities include Sid Feders who won numerous Emmy's with NBC, including the Today Show, and playwright and Hollywood producer Irving Elman, whose credits include Alfred Hitchcock Presents and The High Chaparral.

Who are these people? I don't know any of them. What do they have to do with me?

Now: Let us send you an early royalty check! For those who want to have copies of their book on hand:
* if you order between 5 - 50 copies: 40 pct discount, plus we pay royalties; * 51 - 100 copies: 45 pct discount, plus we pay royalties;
* 101 or more copies: 50 pct discount, plus we pay royalties.

And here is the best news: we'll pay those royalties this month! If you order this week, we will mail your check by no later than December 31! Not a bad way to start the new year.

Oh there's the sales pitch again. Now why would I buy my own books to get royalties? Isn't that like the cart before the horse? I bought some books once, went into debt to do it. Thankfully paid off now. If someone wants a book of mine, it would be nice for the publisher to put it out there a bit more, give me a chance in bookstores instead of allowing me to to get the run around, so I might realize some real sales instead of BUYING MY OWN. =(

Phone orders only, at 301 695-1707, between 9am - 8pm EST. Offer expires Dec. 21. Sorry, fullcolor and hardcover books excluded. December royalties check based on this special offer sales only, regular semi-annual royalty statement to be issued in February.

Expires the 21st? So I have three days to come up with boo koo money to buy my books to get royalties? Hmmm... think I'll have to pass. Got kids who would like presents under the tree, not mommy's books. They've seen enough of them.

Happy holidays, Happy New Year!

Happy holidays, I suppose...

PublishAmerica Author Support Team

I really mean no offence to anyone IE PA author who may think I am a "basher". I'm proud of my book regardless, but know that it could be so much better than these little pitches I have been receiving.