PAMB and its quotes

brianm · Mar 4, 2007

Ken Schneider said:
After all PA is a POD printer. We print it, you bought it and paid for it up front.

Ken Schneider said:
Very likley that the author must pay for the book they themselves talked the store into stocking.

Dear author, You, not PA talked the store into stocking a book that can't be re-stocked again due to quality issues. Therefore as PA is a POD publisher, as you know, it is your responsibility to pay for the returned book.© No PA you may not use my weasel worded response.
Thank you,
Nasty reply to YOUR problem.

Ken, I must disagree with you on this point.

Article 17 of the PA contract clearly states that the author will avail himself to promote his book. If that author promotes his book to a bookstore, and convinces a bookstore to place his book for sale on their shelves, he has complied with Article 17.

Because PA did not have a return policy in the past, bookstores were not willing to order PA books to place on their shelves, because they would be out the money for shelving those books if they never sold.

However, PA now has a return policy. Albeit, a horrid one. Nonetheless, PA does have a return policy. This return policy is the inducement for a bookstore to order and shelve PA books, because they will no longer be out monies if the books don't sell and they are returned.

Perhaps other POD's have clauses in their contracts that cover what happens when an author promotes/convinces a bookstore to shelve their book. PA does not. Therefore, PA is responsible for the cost of the unsold and returned books.

Pa was forced to provide their authors with some form of return policy in order to make themselves appear more legitimate. They cannot cover their losses for returns by charging their authors, not without verbiage being added to their current contract.

(This is my personal opinion from reading PA’s contract. I am not an attorney, nor am I purporting to give any legal advice or legal interpretation of PA’s contract.)

Ken Schneider · Mar 4, 2007

I'm aware, I was still with them when they added the return policy.

Maybe so, Brianm.

Though, I wouldn't try to second guess them on anything.
They won't take a loss on anything they venture into.

One way or another, their return policy is better for them than the author.

We are already seeing authors saying that they are in arears as far as returns versus royalty.

At least before the returns policy the author received a buck or two, or nothing, now they owe from future sales that may never come.

What if they never have another sale and are in arears in the royalty returns owed PA?

They'll pay it sooner or later.

And, don't forget who is keeping track of the returns.

LloydBrown · Mar 4, 2007

brianm said:
This return policy is the inducement for a bookstore to order and shelve PA books, because they will no longer be out monies if the books don't sell and they are returned.

Books that are bought on a returnable basis have a 5% discount (in an industry where the reseller normally expects 40% or so). Returning the book incurs a 10% restocking fee, meaning the reseller loses money. The "return policy" is nominal only.

I imagine that claming not to have a return policy while actually offering returns to those who ask for them on a case-by-case basis would actually work much better if PA was interested in selling books to readers.

Christine N. · Mar 4, 2007

Yeah, so the bookseller loses 5% from what they paid for the books (which is probably above market average), plus shipping both ways.

Not very profitable nor a great enticement for anybody to order the books.

brianm · Mar 4, 2007

LloydBrown said:
Books that are bought on a returnable basis have a 5% discount (in an industry where the reseller normally expects 40% or so). Returning the book incurs a 10% restocking fee, meaning the reseller loses money. The "return policy" is nominal only.

Thank you, Lloyd, for clarification.

However, PA still cannot charge the author. That was my point.

On the other hand, whoever ordered the books at the bookstore may need to be looking for another job.

LloydBrown · Mar 4, 2007

brianm said:
However, PA still cannot charge the author. That was my point

They absolutely can. I bet many of them would even pay it.

Whether it would stand up in abritration is a different question. However, there's nothing stopping them from printing and mailing a bill.

I'd be willing to bet that many of the "returns" are fraudulent, too. Everything else is.

brianm · Mar 4, 2007

Yes, $52 plus dollars is good. I made a whole $1.12 on one book last year. Needless to say, I am feeling a bit down about it. I have tried and tried to peddle my books. I'm spending more money in doing that than I am getting on a return. I just don't have any more ideas. I have made up postcards, business cards, posted stuff on websites, paid for an ad over at USFreeAds and everything. Bottom line is, you're more likely to sell your stuff only to family and friends. Until somebody really important recognizes and likes your material, you're like the subject of a poem I recently wrote over at Author's Den: Needle In A Haystack. It's a hard business to conquer. But I intend to keep going like the Energizer Bunny. Currently working on my 7th book.

The only one making money on PA books, is the great big scammer themselves, PUBLISH AMERICA.

Ken Schneider · Mar 4, 2007

The honeymoon is almost over for that poster.

The roadblock is in sight.

CatSlave · Mar 5, 2007

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19940&sid=4edb07c1c50671cdfad6c1d9af1e2bb6
Now I am really confused! I have a question about Ingrams?
My understanding was that Ingrams is the distributor for Publish America. I wonder if anyone on the board knows for sure.

I check with Ingrams, periodically and of course then I have a record of all of my sales. However my statement from PA showed no sales and no check was received. ( this is NOT what my Ingrams records show) Now I wonder, who pays the royalties of the Ingram sales?

My last statement prior to this one from PA showed returns and deductions, also which Ingrams did not show.

I wrote three letters to PA asking these same questions I am posting here and never got an answer, so I am hoping that someone here on the board can have the answer for me.

I am sure there is a logical answer to this question.
~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, there is.

zizban · Mar 5, 2007

Oh it's easy. Willem needed gas for the helicopter.

spike · Mar 6, 2007

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19980

PAMB said:
I actually think Publish America has a good reputation and a small handful of people who have nothing to do but whine---loudly. Taking a look at P. A.s homepage tells you what is really going on. So, to answer your question about what I do to counteract the reputation, the answer is: I do nothing. When I do a speaking engagement I tell people about Publish America. I've never heard anyone say anything negative about them. Sure there is negative stuff on the web, but you'll find that about most anything.
Good luck with your book.

I think this sums up PA's "cultiness". Only PA's website has the truth. Do these people realize how obsurd that statement is? The only one with a monetary motivation to lie is PA.

PA wouldn't lie to us! Everyone else lies, but not PA!

stormie · Mar 6, 2007

spike said:
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19980
I think this sums up PA's "cultiness". Only PA's website has the truth. Do these people realize how obsurd that statement is? The only one with a monetary motivation to lie is PA.

PA wouldn't lie to us! Everyone else lies, but not PA!

Reminds me of "I'm all right, the world's all wrong" way of thinking.

Christine N. · Mar 6, 2007

That's why I deleted the PAMB from my bookmarks. The stuff that goes on over there is just too heartbreaking.

zizban · Mar 6, 2007

Same here. It is too depressing to read.

Ken Schneider · Mar 6, 2007

I don't go over their and read that stuff because it's all repeats from when I was over their posting.
Same questions, same answers, different people.

The one thing they all have in common is they don't know diddly squat about real publishing. Hence their situation and questions. Just the kind of people PA wants in their hoard. People they can manipulate due to ignorance.

Rolling Thunder · Mar 7, 2007

The irony of it all.

Before I left for China I send a package to Barnesandnoble headquarters with my books included and a long letter discussion why my books deserved to be in all B&N shops. I also mentioned that both my books were returnable to PA.

Now that I am back I am looking at a letter from B&N. A lady describes the situation poorly. She refers to PA boos as self published and in a generic letter she claimed that this tupe of books sell no more than one hundred copies. Now the time has come for PA to educate B&N specially a lady who does not know what she is talking about. If all of us argue with B&N that-no our books are only print on demand and not self published, we may get nowhere. So I hope PA will come the aid of the authors. I will disclose the name of the lady and her number if you wish. Her mistake and judgement is serious and this is why some of you have not become success stories.
I got my checks and I am not sure if they mean anything because I do not know how many companies are selling my books and who is who. This is another matter to discuss later.
what do you all think the course of action should be. Of course you do not want to make the lady who is in charge angry but only to educate her and work with her.
Authors with a lot of passion and pride will not be able to work easily with people who have misconceptions or the wrong information, so indeed PA support is needed and hopefully that once for all will remove the dark cloud from the eyes of the third parties.

spike · Mar 7, 2007

If it looks like a vanity press....

I too, have read where many authors say that PA did not publish a second or third book, due to lack of sales.
I am not sure there is a magical number but rather it is based on how many overall books are purchased.
For the most part we are not paid a royalty if we purchase our books, unless PA runs a promtion of somekind.
I know of many authors who have a published book by PA and have never purchased a single copy. Even though we are not required to purchase copies it is in our best interest to do so. When we purchase our books PA is making money otherwise they would not sell them to us even at our discount. Even though we are not paid a royalty on the purchases we make, it is still a sale nonetheless.

I would think that PA would have to sell a couple of hundred books in order to recoup the money they are out on the production of our books. If we are not willing to purchase our books and promote them, then why should PA continue to accept books that the author does not have an interest in?

JimmyD1318 · Mar 7, 2007

I would think that PA would have to sell a couple of hundred books in order to recoup the money they are out on the production of our books. If we are not willing to purchase our books and promote them, then why should PA continue to accept books that the author does not have an interest in?

If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck....

You are dealing with a vanity press!

DeadlyAccurate · Mar 7, 2007

Now the time has come for PA to educate B&N specially a lady who does not know what she is talking about.

Ya know, if booksellers, agents, publishers, editors, and established authors all think PA is a vanity self-publisher, and the only people who don't think PA is a vanity self-publisher are PA authors, isn't there the distinct, likely possibility that PA is...a vanity self-publisher?

zizban · Mar 7, 2007

DeadlyAccurate said:
Ya know, if booksellers, agents, publishers, editors, and established authors all think PA is a vanity self-publisher, and the only people who don't think PA is a vanity self-publisher are PA authors, isn't there the distinct, likely possibility that PA is...a vanity self-publisher?

Its that cult thing again: everyone is against us. It's us against the world. Creepy.

JimmyD1318 · Mar 7, 2007

zizban said:
Its that cult thing again: everyone is against us. It's us against the world. Creepy.

Creepy dosen't even begin to cover it!

TwentyFour · Mar 7, 2007

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=20015

I am the author of XXXXXXXX. I have been watching my book since March of 06. My book is being carried by everybody, Borders, target, cover to cover, valore books, forbes, chapters and a lot of independent stores, every amazon in united states and canada and europe, even lightening source publishing advertises my book, I don't even know who they are and I am sure I don't have a contract with them. If you go to Yahoo.com and put my name XXXXXXXXXXXXX two pages of book stores come to life advertising my book. the same is with my second too. I have been in the top 100, fifty, ten, even #one and two and three in best selling on many of these major book sites. On buy.com I have been the #1, two spot in two catagories for months, and in horror on the #2 page for a month in best selling.
Now for the kicker, I have sold a whopping 11 books according to my royality check. B@N my sales rank has not dropped below 700. I wish somebody could explain why to me my cheks have been so disapointing with a what I think has been a sucessful sales ranking.

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Finally, someone with the same problem as mine. I got my check this month and laughed hysterically. Now, I know for a fact that my books have been selling according to the ranks on both barnesandnoble and amazon.com. So where is the money? LOL..yes, it's a sad situation, but not one I'm allowing to go on much longer. I've contacted a lawyer. Plus, there's no way PA is getting their hands on my next book. As we speak it's sitting on an agent's desk. The kicker is the ridiculous contract that I signed with PA, being a new author, but I've learned SO MUCH since signing that contract.

Good luck!

OUCH...
this is a bite off the reality check!

Rolling Thunder · Mar 7, 2007

It also got snipped by Infomonster by 7:20pm est.

JimmyD1318 · Mar 7, 2007

Finally, someone with the same problem as mine. I got my check this month and laughed hysterically. Now, I know for a fact that my books have been selling according to the ranks on both barnesandnoble and amazon.com. So where is the money? LOL..yes, it's a sad situation, but not one I'm allowing to go on much longer. I've contacted a lawyer. Plus, there's no way PA is getting their hands on my next book. As we speak it's sitting on an agent's desk. The kicker is the ridiculous contract that I signed with PA, being a new author, but I've learned SO MUCH since signing that contract.

Good luck!

Infocenter was quick to delete this part of the thread! Can't let the truth be posted now can we?

J.S Greer · Mar 7, 2007

I am the author of XXXXXXXX. I have been watching my book since March of 06. My book is being carried by everybody, Borders, target, cover to cover, valore books, forbes, chapters and a lot of independent stores, every amazon in united states and canada and europe, even lightening source publishing advertises my book, I don't even know who they are and I am sure I don't have a contract with them. If you go to Yahoo.com and put my name XXXXXXXXXXXXX two pages of book stores come to life advertising my book. the same is with my second too. I have been in the top 100, fifty, ten, even #one and two and three in best selling on many of these major book sites. On buy.com I have been the #1, two spot in two catagories for months, and in horror on the #2 page for a month in best selling.

...and we say that PA authors dont sell :Headbang:

PAMB and its quotes

Brian Boru

Absolute sagebrush

haz a shiny new book cover

Brian Boru

Brian Boru

Absolute sagebrush

Mah tale iz draggin.

Mostly Ignored

storm central

haz a shiny new book cover

Absolute sagebrush

Mostly Ignored

THE POPCORN MONSTER!

Absolutely Fazed

THE POPCORN MONSTER!

practical experience, FTW

THE POPCORN MONSTER!

Feel the power!