PAMB and its quotes

[James D. Macdonald]

The objections to Ahad's Constant seem to fall into two groups: How constant is it if it only has that value for one particular place in the universe, and how useful is it if the criteria for deriving the number are arbitrary?

[Sheryl Nantus]

I am constantly amazed at the amount of "faux science" books that PA puts out.

[James D. Macdonald]

Vanity publishing is a place where you'll find a lot of crackpot science. Even crackpots have checkbooks.

[Stacia Kane]

Maybe "Ahad's constant" requires Doctor Emmet Brown's "one point five gigawatts of power." GREAT SCOTT!! :D

It's one point twenty-one gigowatts, not one point five.

Sorry. hijack off.

[Stacia Kane]

I did, indeed, Google on "Ahad's Constant." What I found was, not



but rather a series of astro-physics messageboards where Ahad pops up to ask people to call his number "Ahad's constant" to which he gets a series of puzzled replies. He presses the case; replies become testier.

Here's a typical one (http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/printthread.php?Cat=0&Board=science&main=285587&type=thread).

He's created some lovely sock puppets to push the theory as well, along with the typical PA Amazon review puppets (several people comment on those in the Google groups).

[LloydBrown]

I think they should restrict posting in the Marketing folder to people who have actually sold 1,000 or more books. People giving bad advice to each other just means more people have bad advice.

Yes, I know the board would be empty.

[James D. Macdonald]

And "sold" would have to mean sold, not "bought yourself and still in boxes in your garage."

[Bartholomew]

Here's a typical one (http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/printthread.php?Cat=0&Board=science&main=285587&type=thread).

The... The stupidity hurt my eyes.

:(

[Sheryl Nantus]

The... The stupidity hurt my eyes.

:(

Look away! Look away!

AAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

[James D. Macdonald]

The purpose of this thread isn't to support PA authors. It's to warn folks who might become PA authors.

If PA authors have these various misconceptions, they probably had them before they became PA authors. Perhaps if they didn't have the misperceptions they would have made a better decision about their writing.

If folks who aren't yet PA authors get their eyes opened, and are saved from the wheels of the author mill, that's a win for them.

As to the PA authors themselves -- they signed that awful contract. There isn't much I can do for them.

[WWWWolf]

Here's a typical one (http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/printthread.php?Cat=0&Board=science&main=285587&type=thread).

The referenced paper (http://www.astroscience.org/abdul-ahad/firstarktoalphacentauri/interstellar.htm) is a gem in itself. I'm not an astrophysicist, but my few visits to arXiv.org usually don't give me instant headaches thanks to the presentation. (Depth of the content, maybe, but not presentation.) Maybe I should stop reading computer science papers (which are usually laid out boringly, yet effectively) and see which astrophysicist uses the most animated rainbow GIFs and pixely Excel screengrabs with graphs that's placed partially on top of the data.

I say one thing - this guy's theory wouldn't last a day in Wikipedia. Even if described as fictional. :) I wouldn't brag about it being particularly widespread either - 30 distinct Google hits for "Ahad's constant" and 65 distinct Google hits for "Ahad radius"? Pathetic...

Hm, hokey science and a hokey publisher. These go just nicely hand in hand...

[emsuniverse]

Some gems I found this evening (my comments in bold):

Orig poster: "My book was published this past July, I cant afford to buy any copies of my book, I dont know what to do." Then you're S.O.L., buddy!

Part of a reply: "PA will send out a limited number of review copies for you IF the reviewer is legitimately a reviewer and if the review will be published somewhere." Yeah, and the book will arrive (if at all) in about a year.

---

Next, we have one guy who posted his "book commercial" for others to view. It's... well, have you guys seen those commercials for James Patterson's new book Cross or Nora Roberts' new book? It's NOTHING like that, let's put it this way. Kinda made me cringe.

---

This one lady wrote to Barnes and Noble's headquarters, wanting them to stock her book.

"It is obvious from the wording of the letter that Barnes and Noble perceive PublishAmerica as a POD publisher, and no matter how strenuously I argued otherwise, they refused to accept it.

Incidentally, I'm having the same problem with WH Smith and Borders here in the UK - they also insist that PA are POD publishers. "
No, really?

A reply: "One of the problems I learned about was that B&N has an inhouse POD publisher they promote, name withheld, in which they own a large percentage of the stock. We learn not to believe all of what we are told by the bookstores, but still they are the ones we have to deal with. "

Random PAMB quotes:

"Don't worry. It'll be all right. Your book will sell millions, just wait and see."
"Go look at my cover. Was the wait worth it or what?? "

[J.S Greer]

Found on today's trip to the PAMB:

However, when I contacted my local newspaper to see if they would do an article, I was told they did not want to review my book. You would think they would be more than anxious to interview one of their own.

Well...

The next three are related, the last two being in response to the first.
I have found so many errors and typos that were suppossed to be fixed before the book went for sale; but we are all human and bound to make mistakes.

Didn't you take advantage of all the opportunities PA gave you to check for errors?
If they are not to blatent, I wouldn't worry about it.

I personally didn't find any typos in my first PA book Species. I lament the fact that it's happened to you.

Hysterical blindness from three seperate people on one topic?

I am the author of IRISH OATMEAL. My second novel, CHARLOTTE'S HUMMOCK has just been contracted here at Publish America. I usually call Ingrams, at their 1-800 number to find out how many copies are sold on their automated service. Now my ISBN is no longer valid according to tele. Does this mean that only the Publish America Warehouse is housing copies of IRISH OATMEAL?

They have a warehouse?!?

Ok, one comment before I go. Looking at the avatars that each person uses, doe sit seem to anyone else that browses over there that most of them are middle aged or older?

[JulieB]

I almost posted a link to that book commercial, but I realized that the author's new book is NOT with PA. Apparently his second book got turned down due to poor sales of the first. I'm surprised the post was allowed to remain.

And yeah, that "commercial" had me scratching my head until I realized that this guy writes about video games. Then I was simply shaking my head in disbelief.

[Queen of Swords]

I couldn't make out what in the world he was trying to promote with that commercial. "You might think you are great. But have you faced... The secret society?" That's the limit of the commentary on the book; the rest of the video is devoted to some video game that I didn't find very interesting. Surely he could have used the commercial to say a little more about the plot or characters? There wasn't even a picture of the cover.

[JulieB]

Ah, yes. That's another issue. I'm sure he had Nintendo's permission to use that game footage, right? ;-)

[emsuniverse]

Some quotes:

"I have received email from authors who watch the boards, both PA authors, and those yet to becomes part of the family, and they read what we say to one another. Who's to say that potential agents, movie execs, and various buyers aren't reading them as well?"

I'm sure.

"Hello! I had about the same thing with the first book. I had a lot of people tell me they really enjoyed it, then I had others who only asked "Didn't someone edit that for you?" or "I know someone who would be willing to edit your manuscripts" and that's it. It was really kind of embarrassing after awhile, but I'm glad that at least SOME people got the true message from it.
It was for that reason that I decided to endure the wait and select the option.of editing with PublishAmerica for my second book. I'm not quite sure what kind of job they've done yet, but it's gotta be better than my first one!"

Don't hold your breath.

"I am just curious, has anyone had great success with their first novel, or is it just a way to get your name out there? I came into this not expecting to make tons of money. One day, yes, I want to be full time author, but I know it will take years."

The poor man.

Some good news; a well known publisher of business and academic books and articles has made an offer on my 3rd and 4th manuscripts.
They read my first book, some of my published research, and a synopsis along with a couple of sample chapters of the manuscripts. We just finished a phone conference and are working out some details but a contract will be signed soon.
It will certainly be different to get paid while I finish the books in addition to some other compensation.
I did, a few weeks ago, inquire about submitting my 2nd manuscript with PA and will still submit it here. But it does appear that entering the market with PA has launched another part of my career. Once the 3rd and 4th books are on the market and on the shelves of all the bookstores I'll post info about it here. Things are looking up, indeed.

Wonder what business/academic publisher it is...

"I thought I read something awhile ago that stated PA has made their books returnable. Well I went to Barnes & Noble Saturday to ask them if they would put my book on the shelf because I have several people wanting to purchase a copy but is a little weary about purchasing online. The manager told me they could come in and order it from the store and there would not be a shipping charge, but they do not shelf PublishAmerica books because of their no return policy. I told him I believe they changed that policy, he then showed me his computer and I saw it for my self...no returns. The manager did say if enough people came in and asked to order my book he would think about putting it on the shelf, but whoever purchase it must know that they cannot return it. So back to the question, are PA's books returnable or not?"

After this post, the thread was replied by a site admin:
"Your book is returnable. Please advise your bookstore to re-check Ingram's listings periodically as they are being updated from time to time."

And then they locked the thread.

[J.S Greer]

As a writer I initially came to these boards to learn more of PA and its operation, to be exposed to editing and grammar features and to find other facts to help me write a better book. I learned a lot and it helped sales once I was published.

Once published and upon returning to the boards, however, I found less and less information to nourish my writing growth. I found more and more personal and inane comments; too much gibberish about pets, and in-laws and former spouses; too many good threads disintegrating into chatline nonsense.

:tongue

With thousands of books being published by PA, it would be difficult for them to give equal marketing attention to every book published.

:Headbang:

And finally...

I agree with Dick.

Well of course you do my dear. Of course you do.:D

[TwentyFour]

Now that's nice...

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:22 pm

INFOCENTER2 Writes:

XXXXXX wrote:
If you... find that your manuscript was not edited by a person, but only appears to have been run through some editing software
This would be impossible. PublishAmerica has never used such software.
XXXXX wrote:
is it possible to stop the process so that you can have enough time to get it properly edited?
Perhaps, but an exception would need to be made. Normally authors submit manuscripts that do not require such a level of editing.
XXXXX wrote:
Most of the errors are mine, although I have found some that came from the editing software PA uses
We would submit that all of them are yours. Again, PublishAmerica has never used such software.

[TwentyFour]

Wow...Another problem with PA...

From One Author
I was so excited to see an e-mail from PA. The e-mail was addressed to me with the name of my book XXXXXXXX. They said I had 48 hours to look them over and send reply. Problem was, it was not my proofs. They were another author's by the name of XXXX XXXXXX. I e-mailed PA immediately. Has this happend to anyone else?

From Infocenter

Not sure this is worthy of all this attention; apparently a mistake was made.

Next time please send an email to your editor.

[TwentyFour]

One author is told her book is not discounted and the store has tried ordering, only to be told they will end up paying full price or so...

My local independent bookshop is telling me they are having some difficulties.

I wonder if they are giving me the run around?

They claim they cannot get an answer as to what the discount is to order? They want to order in small quantities due to a small storage area. They want to be able to reorder as their small stock diminishes.

They claim the discounts quoted were only 20% for 10 books?
They claim a 4 week wait to receive the order?
They felt frustrated that there was no 800 number to place the order or speak to someone?

They claim they wanted my book and signing for their busiest day Memorial Day and when they called two weeks before they were told that was impossible.

I do not want to argue as they are an outstanding source for my book and its sales..I said I am sure they were mistaken, but promised to get back to them on all of this?

I cannot find the answers on your website to these questions.
I want to be able to print this all out and personally bring the information to them with me.

Hope you can help


Infocenter argues back with...
>>My local independent bookshop is telling
>>me they are having some difficulties.
>>I wonder if they are giving me the run around?

"Run around" would be a very charitable way of putting it. They are simply telling you things that are not true. All of what you say that they told you, is false.

>>They claim they cannot get an answer
>>as to what the discount is to order?

This is false. Our largest customers are bookstores, and they call, email, or fax us every day. Our full time support team is happy to give them answers. To get a busy signal or ring-no-answer is a rarity, but the support team checks voice mail at least twice per day anyway.

>>They claim the discounts quoted
>>were only 20% for 10 books?

This is false; they were not told this at all. Also, this statement contradicts the statement above that says they could not get an answer. Which was it? Bookstores order from us every day, using our wholesaler discount schedule, which does not contain such a discount as you describe.

>>They claim a 4 week wait to receive the order?

This is false. The support team did not tell them that.

>>They felt frustrated that there was no 800 number
>>to place the order or speak to someone?

They are welcome to call and speak to us at any time, of course. Of all the hundreds of bookstores that order from PublishAmerica, if they are the only ones who "feel frustrated" that we do not have an 800 number, then so be it. They are very well aware that they can also order your book through the world's largest book wholesaler, right from their computer screen. A stock check done just now shows that your book is physically in stock at their wholesaler. They will see this same information on their computer screen.

>>They claim they wanted my book and signing for their
>>busiest day Memorial Day and when they called two
>>weeks before they were told that was impossible.

This is false. They were not told that.

>>I do not want to argue as they are an outstanding
>>source for my book and its sales..I said I am
>>sure they were mistaken, but promised to get back
>>to them on all of this?

Please feel free to quote us on all of the above.

Everyone but PA is wrong, don't they realize this yet???

She answered back with the usual answer...
Thank you Info center for the reply. I suppose my best option is to forget about this source of a bookstore that will carry my book and offer me a signing.

If everything is a lie that they are telling me then I cannot feel comfortable with any arrangements they will offer.

This infuriates me! I have spent considerable time and money on visits to the store and in having posters and book marks made up in their name.

Okay I will now persue some other stores and prospects.

What is the discount they would get for 10 books then? Apparently that was what they wanted to order? They use a wholesaler so they say, but often order direct if they can get a better discount. I really have no idea how independent shops buy.

It's off to B&N or some other larger stores.

[triceretops]

Unbelievable. PA just shot down a free publicity event, 10 book sales, and lied to an author about their own culpability. PA was correct about them not offering a 20% discount on 10 books. Crikey--it's less than that. Notice that PA did not offer to call the outlet and offer an explanation to iron out the problems. They in fact called the bookstore liars.

Anything...anything to get PA authors to buy their own books, instead of seek legitimate publicity routes.

These pigs are never wrong, and brow-beat EVERYONE into submission.

Tri--very sad for that author.

[stormie]

From PAMB:
It's off to B&N or some other larger stores.

Poor thing. I wonder how many stores she visits before getting discouraged? Or realizes the truth.

[Christine N.]

Yeah, how IS a POD book physically in stock at the wholesaler warehouse?

Hmm....If PA is lying about that, how true could the rest of it be?

[BenPanced]

"Everything your bookstore told you is a lie and we're not really going to tell you the correct answers! You just have trust us that everything's going to be okay!"

[triceretops]

Well, naturally. InfoGestapo has got to keep the Stepford Scribes in line, lest they gain a brain cell and figure out that everything in Fedrick is sewage under the bridge.

Ever see the Time Machine, with Rod Taylor? Sometimes the PA authors remind me of the gentle Eloi, when the Moorlocks sound the dinner horn. They just keep on marching, with that glazed look in their eyes, spouting, "But this is the way it's always been--we give them something and they provide all of this for us."

AW is Rod Taylor, lighting matches, fighting back, defending the weak, and ultimately trying to burn down that Moorlock city.

Tri

[Sean D. Schaffer]

One author is told her book is not discounted and the store has tried ordering, only to be told they will end up paying full price or so...



Infocenter argues back with...


Everyone but PA is wrong, don't they realize this yet???

She answered back with the usual answer...


I wonder how long it will take for the said author to get banned from PA's boards because she (horror of horrors!) asked her publisher some honest questions?

[TwentyFour]

She is still there and she is on other boards as a cheerleader for PA. Her books are still being published by PA and she has now paid money for other novels to be published. Her idea of paying for books is "how publishing is done". If I told you her name, you'd recognize her immediately.

[Sean D. Schaffer]

She is still there and she is on other boards as a cheerleader for PA. Her books are still being published by PA and she has now paid money for other novels to be published. Her idea of paying for books is "how publishing is done". If I told you her name, you'd recognize her immediately.


How long has she been with PA? I haven't been over there in almost two years, and I don't recognize a lot of the writers over there, unless they make their way over here.

Also, when I was banned from the PAMB, it was under similar circumstances to what this lady is going through. I asked questions, and before long my password did not work anymore.

Of course, I was no longer a PA cheerleader at the time, but what I'm saying is, the circumstances were very similar.

[Saundra Julian]

EGADS!

[TwentyFour]

LOL...Now you know...

For those who don't know, I sent a little rep point and yep...Ian knows her well.

[James D. Macdonald]

How long has she been with PA? I haven't been over there in almost two years, and I don't recognize a lot of the writers over there, unless they make their way over here.

The quoted post was from 2005. So you might well recognize the name.

She appears to only have one book through PA. All the rest (including the sequel to her PA book) are through iUniverse. So she did bail out. Didn't jump too far ... but hey, her overall costs are lower for the same number of books sold when she goes with iU.

Looks like she just didn't want to waste the time and effort that it would take to get her first book out of the seven-year contract.

I think she's sticking with the PAMB just as a way to stay in touch with her friends. It is a community.

[Sean D. Schaffer]

The quoted post was from 2005. So you might well recognize the name.

She appears to only have one book through PA. All the rest (including the sequel to her PA book) are through iUniverse. So she did bail out. Didn't jump too far ... but hey, her overall costs are lower for the same number of books sold when she goes with iU.

Looks like she just didn't want to waste the time and effort that it would take to get her first book out of the seven-year contract.


I don't frankly blame her for not trying to get out of the contract. For me, that process was extremely stressful, and I would not wish the agony on anyone.

[TwentyFour]

I've read her PA cheers, she still sits tight with them across the fence.

[Sean D. Schaffer]

I've read her PA cheers, she still sits tight with them across the fence.


That's mighty sad, but I think Uncle Jim might be partially right. I think too that a lot of her staying with PA is probably more for the sake of community. That sense of belonging is hard to find just anywhere.

I do hope, however, she finds out the truth and is able to become a legitimately published author. The fact she keeps writing and does not give up, would be seen as more an inspiration, if she were more well-known by readers.

[TwentyFour]

True.

[stormie]

This was in reply to a poor, unsuspecting newbie to PA:

1. Don't be anticipating a huge check and don't be discouraged by its size.

2. On your second royalty check, you might find a deduction due to the return policy. I had a small deduction on my second check.


Better she finds out now.

[Sean D. Schaffer]

This was in reply to a poor, unsuspecting newbie to PA:



Better she finds out now.


My only gripe here is she didn't find out before signing the contract. I hope she does well.

[emsuniverse]

One guy posts about how he can't figure out why bookstores can't order his book.

The Reply:

Before anyone thinks I am putting down Publish America, I want to say how greatful I am to them for giving me the chance of a lifetime in having my books published. But I had the same problem trying to get my books into Hastings in Warrensburg, MO.

I had called and set up a date to have a booksigning. Everything was okay until I called the week before I was to have the booksigning. When I called the person told me that they were unable to get the books because Ingram didn't have them in stock. So I called Ingram. Ingram said they did have it in stock and stores could order them. So I called the bookstore back. I believe it is a lie when the stores say they can't get them. Here is the reason why: I kept pressuring the young lady I talked to until she finally told me they were not allowed to order books from Publish America.

I think that's the whole thing in a nutshell. I can't get bookstores in Kansas City to order my books as soon as they find out it's a book published by Publish America.

Again, please don't think I'm putting down Publish America because they were the only publishing company that would give my books a chance. I really appreciate them for doing that.

After that:
People will say what they have to if they think it will get you off their back. Sad to say but it is true. You'll find that they will give all kinds of excuses rather than just saying they aren't interested in supporting you.

No, they aren't interested in supporting PA.

Onto another thread:
One brand new poster asks the average newbie question.
2) What are the average sales for a first time writer?

3) Which promotional material(i.e. bookmarks, fliers, etc.) did you find most helpful?

4) Did you purchase copies of your books to sell yourself? Example: have a box in you trunk, as the promotional guide suggested

Answer to question 2 in a reply: I read somewhere that a first time author can expect to sell around 500 books. PA makes their money by the quantity of books that are sold and first time authors generally do not sell that many books.
Okay, then.
Same reply post, this time to #4:
I believe that every author should have books on hand as you will find that many people prefer to buy "autographed" books so they can brag the know the author. I carry my books everywhere I go and display them. I cannot begin to count how many books I have sold in resturants by simply placing the book next to me on the table. The waitress will notice the book and it gives me the opportunity to show the book. Without exception I have always sold books.
That's... something.

Next thread - talkin' about royalties:
My first book "Dust on the Saddle" has been #1 best selling western from PA for the past 7 months so I'm hoping to get at least $25 or $30 in the royalty check this cycle.
Oh dear Lord.

[James D. Macdonald]

Answer to question 2 in a reply: I read somewhere that a first time author can expect to sell around 500 books. PA makes their money by the quantity of books that are sold and first time authors generally do not sell that many books.
Okay, then.


Where that 500 copies nonsense comes from, and my commentary on it, is here:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47082

A first time author with a decent publisher in the USA can expect to sell one heck of a lot more than 500 copies.

Let's figure out what a commonly expected sales number for a first-time novelist is. $2,000 is a very common first-timer advance. The advance is set to approximately equal the expected sales for the book.

A $2,000 advance would be the equivalent of 3,129 mass market copies, or 1,338 trade paperback copies, or 833 trade cloth copies. Or some combination of the three formats that adds up the same. For example, 500 each of each of the three formats comes to $2,267.10 in royalties. Which is within spitting distance of the Bookscan 500 copies per ISBN number. (Bookscan doesn't track titles -- it tracks ISBNs, and each format that a particular title is in gets its own ISBN.)

That's 1,500 copies sold, which is something on the order of 20 times more than PA sells per title (counting the books the author buys that are still in the trunk of his car a year later).

Same reply post, this time to #4:
I believe that every author should have books on hand as you will find that many people prefer to buy "autographed" books so they can brag the know the author. I carry my books everywhere I go and display them. I cannot begin to count how many books I have sold in resturants by simply placing the book next to me on the table. The waitress will notice the book and it gives me the opportunity to show the book. Without exception I have always sold books.
That's... something.

I have never in my life done anything like this.

I hang with a lot of authors. None of them, to the best of my knowledge, have done anything like this.


Next thread - talkin' about royalties:
My first book "Dust on the Saddle" has been #1 best selling western from PA for the past 7 months so I'm hoping to get at least $25 or $30 in the royalty check this cycle.
Oh dear Lord.

The #1 best selling Western from PA has an Amazon sales rank of 1.2 million.

The author's expected royalties are ... $0.72.

[Christine N.]

Yeah, and I noticed the first post in that 'how many books' thread disappeared. The posted said he heard that the average PA title sells 50 copies or something. It was non -confrontational and didn't say anything harsh. Just a question.

Infomonster deleted it. Can't have the truth out there, can we?

[Tsu Dho Nimh]

Same reply post, this time to #4:
I believe that every author should have books on hand as you will find that many people prefer to buy "autographed" books so they can brag the know the author. I carry my books everywhere I go and display them. I cannot begin to count how many books I have sold in resturants by simply placing the book next to me on the table. The waitress will notice the book and it gives me the opportunity to show the book. Without exception I have always sold books.

I have never in my life done anything like this.

I hang with a lot of authors. None of them, to the best of my knowledge, have done anything like this.

I know some who have done "drive-by book signings". they zip through a Borders and sign all the books that are in stock.

[James D. Macdonald]

Yep, some people do that. But traveling around with a case of books in the trunk of your car? Putting a copy beside your plate in a restaurant in hopes of selling one to the waitress? That's ... odd.

Same with sticking flyers under the windshield wipers of all the cars in the parking lot at the mall, or putting your book's cover on a tee-shirt then strolling around bookstores (in hopes that someone will be so inspired that they'll step over to the Special Order desk).

[Christine N.]

From a thread that sounds like a bunch of people trying to convince themselves of something...

My point exactly. I had made a post on MSN groups the other day asking when was a good time to start getting ready for my first book signing and someone replied that the publisher is supposed to do all that promotional stuff for the author and then he or she mention how PA was a scam. I got mad about that and had something to say. I said it although it was quite a large paragraph. You basically summed it up...shouldn't judge by the publisher but by the author. Readers sure don't so why should anyone else? It doesn't matter is Scholastic publishes you or PA does it. What matters is you (you in general) are published.

Bolding mine. Is she kidding???

[Toothpaste]

Oh god. I am no better than a PA published author therefore. Man I need chocolate!;)

[JimmyD1318]

It doesn't matter is Scholastic publishes you or PA does it. What matters is you (you in general) are published.


Well then, crap, I could go and take one paragraph and put it up on Lulu.com and then what does it matter? I'm published right? That kind of thinking is totally insane! All they are trying to do is just justify themselves some how.

[Saundra Julian]

Just makes me tired...

[CatSlave]

It has taken almost 10 months to see my novel published. Everything went great including the cover. I received my two copies of my novel and sat down and began reading. Talk about falling into the depths.... I choose Option#3 and woked like a mad dog with corrections.....twice. Now I sit here reading my novel and I come upon errors that I know were on my list. I'm concerned at what people will think when they read it. I know that nothing is perfect but this is "not good".

This post will soon disappear, I am sure.

[triceretops]

PA should keep their hands off of something they know nothing about. They don't read the manuscripts in the first place. How can they possibly know the proper spelling for uniquie terms used in a manuscript? Spell Check can be used to destroy a manuscript just as easily as it can help. There have been tons of comments about PA introducing scads of errors AFTER the last galleys have been proofed by the author. The trick is, to take that option one, or never let PA have the last edit.

Heh, the trick really is, is to not let these monkeys have your manuscript in the first place.

Tri

[Sean D. Schaffer]

It has taken almost 10 months to see my novel published. Everything went great including the cover. I received my two copies of my novel and sat down and began reading. Talk about falling into the depths.... I choose Option#3 and woked like a mad dog with corrections.....twice. Now I sit here reading my novel and I come upon errors that I know were on my list. I'm concerned at what people will think when they read it. I know that nothing is perfect but this is "not good".

This post will soon disappear, I am sure.


Or it could be 'corrected' by Infocenter, in which they will call the author a liar... and then demand an apology.

[zizban]

Oh dear -- all you can do is contact author support. I imagine they have a protocol to address this situation.

You have no idea :cry:

[PVish]

I sure hope that the PA authors who are disappointed with attempts to get booksignings don't fall for this: http://www.authors4charity.com.

I got the authors4charity scam email today. Some of their email highlights:

We want to take this opportunity and invite you join us at Authors4Charity.* We are an organization of authors from around the country conducting book signings and donating a portion of what we receive to charity. *We’re expanding our old organization to include many new things for authors to choose from, made it better and will do extensive promotions in the next few months.

Members have found this organization has increased their own profits by allowing them to conduct book signings in locations where they may not be able otherwise.* Additionally, readers seem more apt to purchase when they know a portion with go to charity.
Yeah, right.

We support our members through personal contact, newsletters, web site and suggested contacts.* Often our members ban together to conduct joint book signings at local locations.* Many book signings are at Malls, bookstores, coffee shops and grocery stores, to name a few. I wonder if they're banning at Jiffy-Lube?

Members have access to a listing of locations agreeing to conduct such book signings.* Even if you belong to another writers group, Authors4Charity is different in that we place more emphasis on book signings, promotions and other areas than most other groups.* So you can belong to more than one.*Yeah, it's really different. . . .
There's a lot more. But this is the kicker:
Authors4Charity will also have it's own publishing and Promotions company later on this year for it's members.* With the publishing company, authors who use print on demand can buy books at cost using our own publisher.* The promotions company will offer discounts to all it's members as well.

A "publishing and Promotions company" that will "offer discounts."

My mind boggles, not only at the number of errors in their sentences, but also at the levels of scamminess in this, uh, company.

[spike]

From this thread: http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19043

Is it any wonder that PA get criticized? It has created a new style of publishing. It has developed a method of publishing that minimizes risk on the part of PA and on the part of the author. It doesn’t need to publish and stock huge quantities of books but rather be in a position to print what the market demands. That’s smart business.


Bolding is mine.

If the risk is minimized for PA, why do they pay royalties that are in line with publishers who take all the risks?

PA lurkers: What is PA doing to earn its share of the money?

[Saundra Julian]

Oh my...that's a scam if I ever saw one!

[triceretops]

PA lurkers: What is PA doing to earn its share of the money?

Nothing but selling the manuscripts back to its authors.

Tri

[James D. Macdonald]

If the risk is minimized for PA, why do they pay royalties that are in line with publishers who take all the risks?

They don't -- they pay royalties that are far worse than the royalties paid by publishers who take all the risks.

[Arkie]

Publish America's modus operandi is very similar to Publishers Clearing House Sweepstakes (that's probably where they got the idea). PCH offers the chance to win a large amount of money, while stating that it is not required to buy their magazine subscriptions to win, or intimating to the person opening the envelope that they have already won, all they have to do is enter, knowing in the short run that they will sell magazine subscriptions to those hoping to enhance their chances of winning big bucks.

PA plays on the same type emotion of intimating to writers that they have an excellent chance of success is selling their books, if they will only enter (give up their manuscript), while all the time they plan on selling authors their own books.

Note: While I was typing the above, a message popped up on the bottom of the screen informing me I had an email from Publishers Clearing House (this is true), subject: Last Chance to Win. I think I had better go and see what that is all about. I could use the money.

[Arkie]

Well, Publishers Clearing House is offering a new game called Blingo and by registering you have the chance of winning $10,000,000, plus plasma TVs, cars and such. Of course, by registering to participate in the game to win big bucks and prizes, you have to agree to order their subscriptions. I deleted their email and recommend prospective authors delete such emails from Publish America. It is essentially the same scam.

[irishidid]

Blingo is not a game. It is a search engine powered by Google. You don't have to play any game and you certainly don't have to order a subscription to anything.

[Arkie]

I have no idea what Blingo is and don't care. I suspected it was a play of words on Bingo. At any rate PCH is offering it in a scheme to win cash and prizes, their end game to always sell products.

[zizban]

The Publishamerica model is actually a very ethical one I think, in that it does not discriminate amongst both its published and would-be published authors and books. It gives everyone an equal chance of success. A true "equal opportunities" publisher.

If a book makes its mark with a broad spectrum of readers, then it gets promoted on word of mouth and its own merits.

I do feel that with more traditional publishing models, books are too often churned out commercially and *automatically* put into the mass-market distribution chains, irrespective of how good they are. So readers "buy what they get given" as opposed to "spotting something that catches their eye".

Welcome to the world of the completely clueless.

[spike]

The Publishamerica model is actually a very ethical one I think, in that it does not discriminate amongst both its published and would-be published authors and books. It gives everyone an equal chance of success. A true "equal opportunities" publisher.

If a book makes its mark with a broad spectrum of readers, then it gets promoted on word of mouth and its own merits.

I do feel that with more traditional publishing models, books are too often churned out commercially and *automatically* put into the mass-market distribution chains, irrespective of how good they are. So readers "buy what they get given" as opposed to "spotting something that catches their eye".

Welcome to the world of the completely clueless.

Problem is that since the books aren't in bookstores, they aren't going to catch anyone's eye.

[zizban]

This is like stealing candy from a baby:
It seems to me that there are many interpretations and versions of the Publish America post on the Feature Page that says "Publish America Books Are Returnable" or something to that effect. I think it is important for all of us to know exactly what that means in terms of our relationship and work effort with Booksellers like Barnes and Noble, Borders, and the like. It will save authors some tense moments with managers of these places who find their computers do not jive with our claim...PA Monitors are you listening?...Will you clarify?....Rudy Girandola

In your dreams.

[Sean D. Schaffer]

This is like stealing candy from a baby:
It seems to me that there are many interpretations and versions of the Publish America post on the Feature Page that says "Publish America Books Are Returnable" or something to that effect. I think it is important for all of us to know exactly what that means in terms of our relationship and work effort with Booksellers like Barnes and Noble, Borders, and the like. It will save authors some tense moments with managers of these places who find their computers do not jive with our claim...PA Monitors are you listening?...Will you clarify?....Rudy Girandola

In your dreams.


They are listening, and will soon be reprimanding you for asking your honest questions.

This is not mockery; this is personal experience talking.

[LloydBrown]

Argh! I really wish they would all provide an e-mail address in their posts. I so often want to answer their quesions with facts instead of PA nonsense, but if they don't inlcude a link to their website or have a mailto link on that website, there's not much we can do other than post here.

[Sean D. Schaffer]

Argh! I really wish they would all provide an e-mail address in their posts. I so often want to answer their quesions with facts instead of PA nonsense, but if they don't inlcude a link to their website or have a mailto link on that website, there's not much we can do other than post here.


The problem there is, if we did email them, or post to their website, we could be seen as guestbook slammers. That could actually make the situation more difficult for the writers in question.

Also, I wonder how many such emails would even be read? If someone deleted them thinking they were either spam or a virus, they might never reach the recipient with the truth.

I personally think posting here is the best thing the majority of us can do.

All in my own opinion, of course.

[Gravity]

PA Monitors are you listening?...Rudy Girandola

Yes, Winston, I mean Rudy, they're listening. You simply can't imagine how much they're listening. Big Brother loves you, Rudy. Can't you feel his love? Big Brother cares for you. Lies Are Truth. Fear Is Love. Yes, they're listening...

[zizban]

That guy had an email address so I emailed him. I didn't bash PA so much as to explain to him what discounts and returns meant and why PublishAmerica will never be on store shelves.

[LloydBrown]

The problem there is, if we did email them, or post to their website, we could be seen as guestbook slammers. That could actually make the situation more difficult for the writers in question


I've struck up several productive conversations by doing that, with only one major psycho going nuts. If someone asks "How do returns work?" and you answer him, why wouldn't he read it? Be respectful. Stay on topic. Don't preach. Let them draw conclusions for themselves.

[Arkie]

Rudy has been active on that board for three years. He knew the answer to the question before he asked it. He's trying to get the PA monitor to make a statement. A lot of that goes on over there.

[Gravity]

"Make a statement"? To what possible end? (Not that I'm asking you, Arkie; the question's rhetorical). If Rudy's been there three years, he knows darn well what the Infomonster will say. Seems to me the guy would be better served by trying to get his contract cancelled, and starting again with a solid commercial house. But that's just me. I guess fun's where you find it.

[TwentyFour]

From PAMB: I know this is a Dumb question. My first book was 11,300 words. The book that I am finishing this week is around 20,000 words. My question is should I try to make the book longer or go with what I got.

I'm writing on my first book, it's nearly finished and close to edit. I've written more than I need so I can go back to see what works and what doesn't. WOW...only eleven thousand, is this a poetry novel?

[James D. Macdonald]

Book? That's a short story.

There are short story markets out there where they pay you a heck of a lot more than a dollar.

[Sean D. Schaffer]

Book? That's a short story.

There are short story markets out there where they pay you a heck of a lot more than a dollar.


And that's even in the lower paying markets, if I understand correctly.

[CatSlave]

from the PA board:

Hi everyone...Hope I have not put my foot in my mouth so to speak.
My cover just came in and it was very confusing and althought I liked the color, the picture was confusing. I sent it to two women and one man and they all agreed about the picture. I related the news to PA. Hope I have not stuck my foot in my big mouth, afterall I owe PA a lot and I am forever grateful to them. Has anyone else ever diagreed with their cover? My first cover was a winner. I even had someone try to steal my large posters of it. It could be because this is such a different style that I was not prepared for it. Anyway, has anyone else ever disagreed
with their cover. I just want to sell, sell, the book.

Oh dear. What to do? Will anyone answer her question?
I think the answer is "yes" - if you complain to PA you end up with a mouth full of feet.

[CatSlave]

from the PA board:

Hi everyone...Hope I have not put my foot in my mouth so to speak.
My cover just came in and it was very confusing and althought I liked the color, the picture was confusing. I sent it to two women and one man and they all agreed about the picture. I related the news to PA. Hope I have not stuck my foot in my big mouth, afterall I owe PA a lot and I am forever grateful to them. Has anyone else ever diagreed with their cover? My first cover was a winner. I even had someone try to steal my large posters of it. It could be because this is such a different style that I was not prepared for it. Anyway, has anyone else ever disagreed
with their cover. I just want to sell, sell, the book.

Oh dear. What to do? Will anyone answer her question?
I think the answer is "yes" - if you complain to PA you end up with a mouth full of feet.

She then answers her own question:

I'll answer my own question....NO, I did not. I let a few negative
people panic me and then several more came into the office and
told me it had a spooky look to it and that is what I wanted. The
colors are beautiful..So, yes, these people at PA know what they
are doing and they are great. So, I am very happy with my cover
and the only thing I can pass on is don't ask negative people their
opinion about your cover, as they will find something to complain
about. Which is true in life, surround yourself with upbeat and
positive people, like you wonderful people here on the board
and at PA.


Oh barf.

[zizban]

And a new soul about to wander into the Pit of Doom. I feel bad for her.
[/i]HELP! I just submitted my author questionairre and I am a whirlwind of emotion! Yesterday I loved my book, today I wonder what I was thinking when I wrote it. I know I can't be the only one who has felt this way. (I hope) Any words of advice? By the way, how long should I wait to here a reply after submitting my questionairre?[/i]

Run for your life is my advice.

[Gravity]

Which is true in life, surround yourself with upbeat and
positive people, like you wonderful people here on the board and at PA.

Oh barf.

PA and PAvidians...why do I keep thinking of the movie Brimstone and Treacle?

[Gravity]

PA and PAvidians...why do I keep thinking of the movie Brimstone and Treacle?

No, I know of a better example: the old Twilight Zone episode (from the classic SF story), It's a Good Life, with Billy Mumy as the cherub-faced monster. But in this case it'll be Meiners who'll send the PA faithful into the cornfield if their praises are too faint.

[PVish]

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19168
I wonder what would happen if a well-known author like Stephen King or Janet Evanovich signed on with Publish America under a fake pen name. No special treatment at all. Would they still rise up to be great authors? Would they sell nearly as many books? Would newspapers print their releases? Would they get as good reviews? Would bookstores stock their books without the author asking for them to be stocked?

Basically, would they still be recognized as great authors if they used a fake name and a publishing company such as ours? It would be an interesting experiment. Maybe if someone would do that, and the secret got out, it would draw more attention to us "lowly" authors. Though, I'm sure there is probably something in their contracts that prevents them from doing this.

Answers to all questions in the first paragraph: No
Answer to question in the second paragraph: No (If the books aren't available in stores, who's gonna "see" them, much less recognize them?)

[rihannsu]

Yes, Winston, I mean Rudy, they're listening. You simply can't imagine how much they're listening. Big Brother loves you, Rudy. Can't you feel his love? Big Brother cares for you. Lies Are Truth. Fear Is Love. Yes, they're listening...

Big Brother just grabbed my ass.

Then he charged me $25 to see the pictures. :(

[LloydBrown]

Why would Stephen King want to not sell books, get shorted on his royalty check, and upset all of his readers with a mis-edited book? Besides, Publish America wouldn't want Stephen King as an author because he wouldn't buy his own books.

[TwentyFour]

This one speaks for itself



I just got a reply from PA about publishing my second book. My book Dust on the Saddle has been #1 for the past 7 months on Buy.com PA Westerns and they said they wouldn't publish because it hadn't sold enough copies. Well, I can understand them wanting to make money and that's cool but I really thought it was selling a few from the rankings on all the on-line bookstores. I guess I'll try another publisher and get my second book on the shelf. Might have a better chance of selling some. The price will be a lot more affordable too. Hope you all have the best of luck with your writing. I guess I'll sign off now. Not feeling very happy but don't worry, I'll get over it like always when life throws you a spit ball.

I hope he finds a great publisher.

[triceretops]

So do I. Actually, it's probably the best thing that's happened to him. To find a legimate source for his product.

Tri

[triceretops]

And yet another:


I just submitted my second book for consideration. It is my autobiography. PublishAmerica decided they couldn't offer me a contract at this time due to low sales on my first book. I am sure this is due to the fact that I am still learning how to market my book effectively. PublishAmerica suggested that I try another comany at this time. So, I was wondering if anyone might be able to recommend a good company.

I appreciate your help.

Tri

[James D. Macdonald]

I am sure this is due to the fact that I am still learning how to market my book effectively.

No, my friend. It's because you didn't plunk down your plastic to buy 50 copies of your own book. If you'd done that, you'd have the next contract in your hand by now.

[spike]

At least the two people who had their second book turned down are looking for a new publisher.

They could have decided to boost their sales by buying their books. Gives me hope for the PAers.

[zizban]

What makes it even worse was that this e-mail didn't come from a bookstore---it came from a person at a library

I knew libraries were the root of all evil on the book business! ;)

[zizban]

I heard from the woman in question and she basicly told me "I know what PA is, leave me alone."

So okay. I did all I could.

[TwentyFour]

I no longer tell much about what PA is anymore, I just recommend they visit a few other writing boards other than PAMB. I've never had someone say leave me alone.

[zizban]

She deleted the entry I made her guestbook, which was a link to our forum here. Oh well.

[zizban]

Here is what I wrote her:

I read your post on the PublishAmerica boards and I was saddened. You seem like a nice person and nice people shouldn't get hurt.

The library's response to your question was spot on. It doesn't matter if the librarian loves your book, He wont put it on the shelf unless there is a demand and how does one generate demand?

Despite what the responder said, publishing houses put huge amounts of effort into marketing their books, even unknown authors they published. Why? They want to sell books and they want to make money. Publishers make money by promoting their books in catalogs, sendings sales people out, placing advertisements and sending review copies out, usually well in advance of a book's publication date. PublishAmerica doesn't do any of this. They expect you to do the marketing, it's actually right in your contract that you agree to do the marketing of your book. Traditional houses will send you jpegs of your cover and blurbs to put on your web page and your myspace page but they will market your book. Despite what you hear, publishers are always looking for new talent. Sure, their rejection rate is high but that is because they want good talent they can sell and wont ruin their reputation. If they publish garbage no one will buy any of their titles. if your book is good, someone will buy it.

If you want to see a contrast compare PublishAmerica's site with Random House's. Random House is one of the largest publishers in the world:
http://www.randomhouse.com/

See how they promote their books? You wont see anything about how they treat their authors or a huge link to submissions. That's because they are a traditional house interesting in making money not off you selling your book to your friends and relatives but to the public. Okay, you say, that's a large company, how about a small press?

Check out the publisher I just sold a book to:
www.chippewapublishing.com

They are a small press but just Random House their front page is dedicating to promoting their books.

This is harsh but the truth. My aunt just retired after being an editor at Henry Holt and Company so I have a pretty good idea of what goes on in the publishing business.

Good Luck!

[JimmyD1318]

Here is what I wrote her:


At least you tried to be helpful. That's all you can do sometimes.:D

[xhouseboy]

Some quotes:

"I have received email from authors who watch the boards, both PA authors, and those yet to becomes part of the family, and they read what we say to one another. Who's to say that potential agents, movie execs, and various buyers aren't reading them as well?"


They are. And it's posts like the above that brings them circling. Of course they're not real agents, movie execs, etc - they're predators.

Not too long ago a 'screenwriter' pounced on a PA author who had expressed an interest in seeing her book adapted for film. She sounded ecstatic to be filling his coffers, although she'd been sworn to secrecy over the exact amount. She did however have his permission to solicit any other PA authors who wished to use his services.

[zizban]

xxxx,

Welcome to PA. You will find there are many authors here who are willing to assist you.

First, make sure you keep all paper correspondence and emails that you receive from PA. Start a paper file folder and keep everything there. Copy all emails from PA and put them in that folder. You will find that most of your questions will be answered as the process of getting your book published continues. Also, that file will be very valuable in case you have a computer crash. Furthermore, make sure you answer all PA emails that request information from you. Follow their instructions and make sure you meet their deadlines.

You should start a website as soon as possible. Some authors use the website offered by PA but it is somewhat limited, difficult to work with, and it is susceptible to PA bashing spammers. Most authors have their websites with other hosts or have paid to have a website builder create one for them. One of the best free websites available is www.freewebs.com. (http://www.freewebs.com./) You can click on that link and take a look-see. It is free, easy to construct, easy to maintain, and has very few problems. You can also upgrade at a very reasonable price and have your own domain name, such as www.tabithaR.com (http://www.tabithar.com/) (No, don’t click on that link. It is just an example for you to use should you decide to create your own domain with freewebs or other web host. That link will go nowhere until you create such a site with freewebs or some other host). You may click on my website and see how I designed mine. www.freewebs.com/jamese/ (http://www.freewebs.com/jamese/)

Also make sure you write down all passwords and login names for the PA boards and other websites, and keep them in your file folder.

PA probably will not publish your next book until at least 6 months after your first book. And, that will depend upon the sales of your first book. Your ISBN# will be emailed to you by PA. Don’t worry about your book not being in such places as Amazon, B&M, and other online book stores. It will get there soon enough. Also, don’t get too excited if you find out that big book stores like Books-A-Million and others won’t stock your book. Some will and some won’t. Just work with the ones that will. Many new authors spend too much time fighting people who will win no matter what they do or how loud they complain. Your job is to push your books locally. That means sticking your book in the face of every local library, drug store, independent book store, local newspaper, and everywhere you can possibly get noticed. You will also find that everyone has their own situations that will affect how they are able to market their books. Big cities are different than small towns.

Meanwhile, have fun.

Kind of makes you feel and warm and fuzzy inside, doesn't it?

[James D. Macdonald]

"First, make sure you keep all paper correspondence and emails that you receive from PA. Start a paper file folder and keep everything there. Copy all emails from PA and put them in that folder...."

You will find them very handy when you take PA to arbitration later.

[zizban]

The B&N bookstores are under fire again and not just from PA. Take a look at this link. Seems they are getting it from another direction.

http://www.ucok.edu/facsen/bills/2003-2004/2003-2004-01.pdf

Okay, there are so many things wrong with this:
First, the pdf is a copy of faculty petition to get the campus Barnes and Noble to stock the requested textbooks on time and in the right quantities. She's comparing this to an ordinary B+N which isn't the case at all and this bookstore stocks textbooks from traditional publishing houses, not fiction and certainly not ficition from a vanity press.

Second of course is the fact that this dates from 2003-2004.

[Christine N.]

Most college bookstores are now run by B&N; there are probably a lot of requests like this one.

[CatSlave]

"First, make sure you keep all paper correspondence and emails that you receive from PA. Start a paper file folder and keep everything there. Copy all emails from PA and put them in that folder...."

You will find them very handy when you take PA to arbitration later.

And remember they never, ever delete emails.
Everything you say to them is kept on record.

[James D. Macdonald]

And remember they never, ever delete emails.
Everything you say to them is kept on record.

Which gives me a wonderful idea for what you should ask for in the subpoenas.

[Maddog]

...will receive a terrible shock when the royalty check arrives. So sad!

Bolding mine:

I have the same issues when out promoting my book, particularly with Barnes and Noble, but with other stores as well. When I tell the managers that PA will buy back unsold copies, (which is what I was led to believe) the store managers seem skeptical. You really have to shmooze these people to get them to carry your book. Sometimes I feel like PA leaves me twisting in the wind but what else can I do? I suppose that the big publishing houses have publicity machines in place, but they won't even accept a manuscript unless you have a body of published work and an agent.

Catch 22!!

Promoting my book has become a full time job for me, difficult since I also have a business to run AND I'm trying to finish the second book in the trilogy. (I don't sleep much) Thank goodness for my hubby and daughter who will mind the store so I can get out there. My approach has been to fill my calender with appearances- readings, discussions, writer's groups, TV, radio, ANYTHING!! Then I go to the bookstores and present my book as a way to get publicity for their store. It works.


A full time job? Oh no!:e2hammer:

[zizban]

She got a reply from Dick Stodgill...I wonder if PA's new minion?

BL - The large mainstream publishers promote books by the superstars of the business, but do little or nothing for the newcomers. One of the first question many of them ask is, "How do you plan to promote your book?"

[Christine N.]

Blah, blah, blah.

Will someone PLEASE help that man! He's driving me crazy with his misinformation. And he keeps spreading it around, the PA authors eat it up like gospel!

Ugh. He has no idea what marketing real publishers do - just because it's not an endcap, table space or one of those cardboard display things, he thinks they do nothing.

Catalogs, ARC's, reviews in trade pieces, a marketing dept... yeah, real publishers have those for all their books, Mr. Stodghill.

You need to get your information correct.

[Gravity]

Will someone PLEASE help that man! He's driving me crazy with his misinformation. And he keeps spreading it around, the PA authors eat it up like gospel!

"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king." Thus spake Zarathustra, or Plato, or somebody...

[zizban]

I posted a little spiel on his blog but got this:

Your comment has been saved and will be visible after blog owner approval.

Wanna bet it'll never show up?

[zizban]

I guess I'm on the right track, then; slogging away at the brick and mortar stores. The Internet exposure sounds like a great thing, but it almost seems like you might get lost among the masses.

As far as the question of 'returnability', I would just like to think that my publisher and I are on the same page.

On another point, I still have pros in the business turn their noses up at my work as being 'self-published'. What's up with that???


It means you are on the right track to figuring out how screwed you are.

[Gravity]

Was the above quote from the Newspaper Guy?

[zizban]

It was from BL somebody.

[Saundra Julian]

Seems like some are getting the message...we can only hope and keep a chair ready for them at AW!

[Arkie]

I am watching Mr. Stodgill on the History Channel. He is one of the narrators describing the Normandy Invasion. Appears to be about 85, as would be the approximate age of many WWII vets, and he is doing a credible job.

[zizban]

He's 81 and no one is debating his historical knowledge; he is a vetern of Normandy.

[Christine N.]

I'm not even debating his experience with publishing. He was in the newspaper, magazine and short story game for a long time.

He knows next to nothing about the business of book publishing in the 21st century, is what I'm saying.

[James D. Macdonald]

I suppose that the big publishing houses have publicity machines in place, but they won't even accept a manuscript unless you have a body of published work and an agent.

It isn't quite that bad. All you have to do to interest a major publisher and/or a major agent is write a book that someone besides your mother wants to read. (Not is willing to read. Wants to read.)

The publicity and marketing that every real publisher gives every one of their authors (even the first-time newbies) is:

a) Review copies well in advance of publication to major reviewers (Library Journal, Booklist, et al.).
b) Listed in the pubisher's catalog, sent well in advance of publication to every bookstore and library in the country.
c) Promoted by the flesh-and-blood salesforce that visits bookstore buyers.
d) Advertisements in trade publications.

None of these things are things that individual authors can do on their own ... it's prohibitively costly for an individual, and individuals just don't have the time or the contacts.

Nor are those the only things that publishers can and will do for their books, even the small books by first-timers. That's just the minimum.

[Christine N.]

Yeah, I mean, think about it. If they didn't market the newbies, the newbies books wouldn't sell. If the book doesn't sell, the publisher doesn't make money.

Oh, my , gosh. Yes, real publishers want to make money! Who would publish a book without the expectation of selling it to the public??

Just. PA.

Newbies books are accepted every single day, there, my friend. You need to start reading Publisher's Lunch.

[stormie]

There's a guy over there on PA (Joe B.--can't remember the spelling of his last name) who started his own writer's forum on his web site. He posted a link to it on PAMB. I haven't checked within the last few days to see if PA pulled it. From his email to me, it seems he's a little upset up with PA; they turned down two of his mss. He wants to go (his words) the "legitimate" route. Several PA "authors" have signed up for his forum. Interesting.

ETA: Found the link here (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=18974). He seems to have added that he's trying to keep out PA bashers, yet in his email to me, he's getting away from PA. Maybe he's saying that on PAMB so the powers-that-be won't ban him.

[James D. Macdonald]

Oh, wow:

State of the Union
1/24/2007, 2:41:47 PM
Last night, President Bush alluded to Cyrus Emerson's novella "Lost Angel" in his annual State of the Union address. The development of technology to incorporate environmental values into a capitalistic system is the underlining message of "Lost Angel." President Bush has made it clear that he now agrees, and that national security will be improved as America kicks its oil addiction.

http://www.publishamerica.net/authornews/

Y'know, I listened to the SOTU and I didn't hear any allusions to this book.

[CatSlave]

Oh, wow:

http://www.publishamerica.net/authornews/

Y'know, I listened to the SOTU and I didn't hear any allusions to this book.
Text of the SOTU:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/31/AR2006013101468.html

Bush said:
By applying the talent and technology of America, this country can dramatically improve our environment, move beyond a petroleum- based economy and make our dependence on Middle Eastern oil a thing of the past.

That's quite a stretch. Of course the PAvidians will gobble it up.
How many books are out there that address environmental issues, that PA can lay claim Bush is "alluding to" this one in particular?

This book claims to be short stories and poetry set in apocalyptic times. Presidential reading, to be sure.

[triceretops]

From the PAMB:

"I have done a bunch of newspaper and radio interviews over the past couple of weeks. Basically, they are going to ask you some basic questions about your book and about yourself. Why you wrote the book, your motivations, why did you choose PA, what is PA about"

Now wait just a dang minute here. I've had three major TV appearances and 40 radio interviews, and not once was I ever asked about who my publisher was or what they were like. Never. I was asked what the process of publishing was like in general, but no specifics of who printed my book.

I'm getting the heebee jeebees, here. Does it state somewhere in PA propoganda file that authors will be quizzed on their publisher? Could it be that PA has, somewhere, told their authors that they should be mentioned in an interview in a favorable light, and also as a legitmate commercial publisher?

If this is so, then PA is using its shills as free advertizing beacons, aswell as all the other venues they exploit.

Why oh why would this nice lady mention MENTIONING PA in an interview?
Where did she get this bit of advice.

Tri

[Sean D. Schaffer]

From the PAMB:

"I have done a bunch of newspaper and radio interviews over the past couple of weeks. Basically, they are going to ask you some basic questions about your book and about yourself. Why you wrote the book, your motivations, why did you choose PA, what is PA about"

Now wait just a dang minute here. I've had three major TV appearances and 40 radio interviews, and not once was I ever asked about who my publisher was or what they were like. Never. I was asked what the process of publishing was like in general, but no specifics of who printed my book.

I'm getting the heebee jeebees, here. Does it state somewhere in PA propoganda file that authors will be quizzed on their publisher? Could it be that PA has, somewhere, told their authors that they should be mentioned in an interview in a favorable light, and also as a legitmate commercial publisher?

If this is so, then PA is using its shills as free advertizing beacons, aswell as all the other venues they exploit.

Why oh why would this nice lady mention MENTIONING PA in an interview?
Where did she get this bit of advice.

Tri


If I remember correctly, mentioning PA and how they changed our lives was one of PA's little pieces of advice when I signed with them. I forget exactly where this was mentioned, but I do seem to remember that little piece of information being included in PA's suggestions for making oneself known in the business.

I never really thought of it before, but it does sound kind of fishy. I guess the old idea of PA being like a cult really does have some merit. It's almost like the authors are to go out and preach about PublishAmerica like some people preach about whatever god they serve.

Interesting.

[rihannsu]

From the PAMB:

"I have done a bunch of newspaper and radio interviews over the past couple of weeks. Basically, they are going to ask you some basic questions about your book and about yourself. Why you wrote the book, your motivations, why did you choose PA, what is PA about"

Now wait just a dang minute here. I've had three major TV appearances and 40 radio interviews, and not once was I ever asked about who my publisher was or what they were like. Never. I was asked what the process of publishing was like in general, but no specifics of who printed my book.


I read that on PAMB and I immediately thought:

1. The interviewer doesn't know about PA and just wants the author to "tell the folks out there" what it's like to be published. Not out of line for a human interest story.
OR
2. The interviewer has Googled PA and will ask the author at some point about PA. Okay, this was my first thought. I'm paranoid.

[K1P1]

If I remember correctly, mentioning PA and how they changed our lives was one of PA's little pieces of advice when I signed with them.

Well, they did change your life, didn't they? Not for the better, but...

[PVish]

From the PAMB:
. . . Why oh why would this nice lady mention MENTIONING PA in an interview?
Where did she get this bit of advice.
Tri

Last Friday, in the largest paper in my region, a short article appeared about a local woman doing a signing. The third paragraph--and one fifth of the column space--of the article consisted of this:
Printed by PublishAmerica, a royalty-paying publisher known for accepting new writers, the book was released Dec. 11.

Next paragraph:Available through Amazon, Barnes & Noble and other national booksellers, (name redacted) is still reeling from the excitement of getting published. What the book is actually about is saved for last.
(The author is available? Gotta watch those participial phrases. . . .)

So, a third of the article mentions the "printer" and the excitement of "getting published." Is that enough to sucker in some more unsuspecting writers, or what?

[spike]

From the PAMB:

"I have done a bunch of newspaper and radio interviews over the past couple of weeks. Basically, they are going to ask you some basic questions about your book and about yourself. Why you wrote the book, your motivations, why did you choose PA, what is PA about"

Now wait just a dang minute here. I've had three major TV appearances and 40 radio interviews, and not once was I ever asked about who my publisher was or what they were like. Never. I was asked what the process of publishing was like in general, but no specifics of who printed my book.

I'm getting the heebee jeebees, here. Does it state somewhere in PA propoganda file that authors will be quizzed on their publisher? Could it be that PA has, somewhere, told their authors that they should be mentioned in an interview in a favorable light, and also as a legitmate commercial publisher?

If this is so, then PA is using its shills as free advertizing beacons, aswell as all the other venues they exploit.

Why oh why would this nice lady mention MENTIONING PA in an interview?
Where did she get this bit of advice.

Tri

But you see this all the time on the PAMB. I'm not sure if it comes from PA or just the PA faithful.

"If you promote PA, it will (fill in your favorite: Get us into bookstores, help sell all of our books, stop the bashers, make the publishing industry pay attention, align the planets, or create world peace)."

[triceretops]

Printed by PublishAmerica, a royalty-paying publisher known for accepting new writers, the book was released Dec. 11.

It just never ceases to amaze me how low PA will go to get the word out and suck in more marks. On the backs of their author's review articles no less. I do agree that the authors are probably pushing their company for the sake of legitimacy, but the effect is far more reaching. It's free national advertizing, just the ticket PA covets and exploits. I just love that phrase, "known for accepting new writers." As though it's kind of a well kept secret--a little insider tip.

I swear they have it coming in from all angles and compass directions.

Tri

[Saundra Julian]

When we did our "one and only" TV appearance, we had already decided to try to get our rights back from PA. It was too late to cancel the show so we went on with it but asked the host not to ask us about our publisher.

[Popeyesays]

Printed by PublishAmerica, a royalty-paying publisher known for accepting new writers, the book was released Dec. 11.

It just never ceases to amaze me how low PA will go to get the word out and suck in more marks. On the backs of their author's review articles no less. I do agree that the authors are probably pushing their company for the sake of legitimacy, but the effect is far more reaching. It's free national advertizing, just the ticket PA covets and exploits. I just love that phrase, "known for accepting new writers." As though it's kind of a well kept secret--a little insider tip.

I swear they have it coming in from all angles and compass directions.

Tri

Since PA is a b******t generator, it must have a b******t magnet in there somewhere. A kind of cosmic and practical karma machine--what flies out flies back.

Regards,
Scott

[PVish]

Phrases like "We welcome new writers" or "known for accepting new writers" translates to "If you're as clueless as we suspect you are, we want to scam you." Variations might include this from www.wordwright.biz:
We are equally committed to finding and nurturing the first-time author as we are to bestseller publishing.

Anytime you see those phrases with "new" or "first-time" on a publisher's or agent's website. . . well, you know the drill.

[Christine N.]

"bestseller publishing"????

Wow, now it's come to outright lying, eh?

[zizban]

PA is set up not to have a best selling author.

[Maddog]

Titled "Praise the Lord"


If the Lord keeps blessing and blessing I don't know what I'm going to do. The Lord has made a way for me to be able to buy books for my book signings. I was getting really worried about this when over night God opened the doors of heaven and showered down blessings on me. God is good!

[emsuniverse]

That's so sad.

[rihannsu]

Well, if the Attorneys General can't take down PA, then maybe God will smite them for us.

[Tsu Dho Nimh]

Text of the SOTU:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/31/AR2006013101468.html



He mentions the drug trade ... obviously he was alluding to Crack of Death!

[CatSlave]

He mentions the drug trade ... obviously he was alluding to Crack of Death!

Of course he was! :)

And here I thought COD was a Britney Spears biography. Silly me.

[PVish]

Advice from PA to its authors:

http://www.publishamerica.com/MarketingInfo/mediaevents.htm:
The cardinal rule of dealing with the media is persistence. Everyone is vying for the media's attention, and you have to give them a reason to give that attention to you, rather than to that guy over there. It's extremely important to sell yourself, and if that doesn't work, just be a pest. But be certain to have a method to your pestering.

http://www.publishamerica.com/MarketingInfo/promomaterial.htm addresses the question of whether or not authors need promotional materials (Note: I copied and pasted so all the misspellings are PA's.)
Well, you don't need them. Should you probably have them anyway? Yeah. As the Author-that is, the major marketing force behind your book-you'll want to have an arsenal of tricks at your disposal for promoting your book. Promotional materials, such as postcards, flyers, posters, bookmarks, etc., are a standard part the well-armed author's bag of tricks.

You'll need a display for your public events, like book signings or speaking engagements. You'll want something to hand out to people, probably with ordering information printed on it. You might want signs to put in public places where readers collesce; places like coffee shops, bookstore bulliten boards, and local writers' group meeting places.

The bottom line is that promotional materials make you more visible, and the more visible you are, the more books you're likely to sell.

Now we can understand the book mark and flyer obsession that some PA authors have. PA has told them that visibility=sales, which might be true if the "visibility" is from good reviews in major publications, bookstore placement, distribution, etc.

[CatSlave]

Advice from PA to its authors:

http://www.publishamerica.com/MarketingInfo/mediaevents.htm:


http://www.publishamerica.com/MarketingInfo/promomaterial.htm addresses the question of whether or not authors need promotional materials (Note: I copied and pasted so all the misspellings are PA's.)


Now we can understand the book mark and flyer obsession that some PA authors have. PA has told them that visibility=sales, which might be true if the "visibility" is from good reviews in major publications, bookstore placement, distribution, etc.

Is this priceless advice gleaned from the PA book being hawked on the front page of the PA website?
Who do you suppose wrote it?
Who do you suppose is profiting by it?

Published Author's Guide to Promotion, The
Various AuthorsHave you ever been outside of the bookstore, looking up at a colorful poster announcing the impending arrival of another author’s book? Have you thought about being that smiling face in the window, and imagined it were you? This is your invitation to enter the society of the published author through a candid look at their promotional endeavors. Become privy to the closely held secrets of those with intimate knowledge about the subject of publicity, forged through first-hand experience. Written by the real experts, these are the keys to success. In the true spirit of good will, your fellow authors, who’ve been through the trials of marketing, have taken the time to convey the wisdom necessary for you to master this elusive art. Listed in these pages are the dos and don’ts of promotion. They aren’t from people sitting at desks, they’re from authors working their expertise behind book signing tables. These are tips from individuals in action. They are you. Learn from them.
Softcover [$16.95]

[James D. Macdonald]

The Published Author's Guide to Promotion! I haven't thought of that for years. As I'm sure you're aware, the foreword to that book was written by a PA editor who had only been there for six months, which made her one of their longer-lasting ones. She was the one who'd gotten the job by answering an ad in the Pennysaver. And she's the one who called Willem "weird."

[James D. Macdonald]

"bestseller publishing"????

Wow, now it's come to outright lying, eh?

That wasn't a quote from PA -- it was from http://www.wordwright.biz/

But... still, not entirely a lie.

They didn't say they were committed to bestseller publishing ... they said they were as committed to bestseller publishing as they are to nurturing new writers. If we presume that they aren't committed to nurturing new writers at all, well, it follows that they aren't committed to bestseller publishing either.

I'm as committed to burning my home library as I am to driving a spike through my hand!

[BenPanced]

Well, you don't need them. Should you probably have them anyway? Yeah. As the Author-that is, the major marketing force behind your book-you'll want to have an arsenal of tricks at your disposal for promoting your book. Promotional materials, such as postcards, flyers, posters, bookmarks, etc., are a standard part the well-armed author's bag of tricks.

You'll need a display for your public events, like book signings or speaking engagements. You'll want something to hand out to people, probably with ordering information printed on it. You might want signs to put in public places where readers collesce; places like coffee shops, bookstore bulliten boards, and local writers' group meeting places.

The bottom line is that promotional materials make you more visible, and the more visible you are, the more books you're likely to sell.Just think! You can use those rolling mountains of royalties you'll be getting from PA to sink into your flyers, bookmarks, postcards, table displays, and posters!

[PVish]

Look fast—this newbie on the PAMB won't last:
Aloha all! I think it it is unfair that Authors don't get the retailer/specialty stores discounts of 40-45-50% on orders placed direct with PA . The current Author disc. 20-30% is a rip off. Why should the publisher be profiting at a higher margin from their Author's. I just sent a message for the CEO. Perhaps if enough of us join together PA will take a look at this unjust, unfair pricing to it's Authors.

[Saundra Julian]

I love it but the poor author is now a short-timer on the PAMB! Can't have anyone telling the truth, ya know.

[LloydBrown]

Why should the publisher be profiting at a higher margin from their Author's.

Normally, it's because they're taking all of the financial risk. I can't think of a single publisher who makes less money on a book than the author does. At least on the top figure. The bottom figure might well be less.

[spike]

Look fast—this newbie on the PAMB won't last:


I believe it's gone.

[triceretops]

Of course it's gone. Such posts strike fear into the heart. You never see others contributing to such a post. You can almost see the barbed wire around it. Off limits, less you want to be socializing with a person who is asking legitimate questions and posting normal writer gripes. PA demands Stepford Scribes fill their ranks--not free thinkers.

Tri

[Sean D. Schaffer]

PA is set up not to have a best selling author.


Sure they are. They're set up to have a best-selling author.

Whatever book sells the best among the other PA books, is a best-seller.

:)

Of course, that was just a joke, but I still would not be surprised if PA held such a mentality. It sounds to me like something they would try to get their authors to believe.

It's sad, if you think about it. If PA would just be honest about their business model and treat its dissenting authors with respect, I imagine they would be able to make just as much money as they do under their present system.

But like Uncle Jim has pointed out to me before, it's a matter of money. They don't want to spend money to get money. They want a no-risk method of getting rich. That's what really ticks me off when it comes to PublishAmerica. They're willing to victimize authors so they can get more money.

[stormie]

PA demands Stepford Scribes fill their ranks--not free thinkers.Tri
"Stepford Scribes." I like that.

[PVish]

I believe it's gone.

Yep; I grabbed it within 15 minutes of its being posted. It was the poster's second post. Here's a question from a guy who has a total of 8 posts:

Hey everyone I see celebrities are being published by PA does anyone have an exact count of the celeb PA authors and who are they? And do they post on the message board it would be nice to get a post from them encouraging the rest of us on our way to stardom.

I notice a lot of the posters asking the good questions are newbies. One with only 4 posts asked (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19324) asked: is anyone making a living being a full time writer here and was answered by the most experienced writer on the PAMB, who ends his answer:
. . . It is especially tough to earn a living writing fiction. It is extremely unlikely that any PA writer is doing so. In other words, whatever you do, don't quit your day job. If you want to write full time, look for a job with a newspaper or magazine.

[Sparhawk]

Of course it's gone. Such posts strike fear into the heart. You never see others contributing to such a post. You can almost see the barbed wire around it. Off limits, less you want to be socializing with a person who is asking legitimate questions and posting normal writer gripes. PA demands Stepford Scribes fill their ranks--not free thinkers.

Tri

Tri, "Stepford Scribes", that's a keeper. :roll:

[PVish]

This is so not gonna work:
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19377
I was working my 9 to 5 today and I was thinking quite freely about of Marketing Strategies and I have come up with a plan or pulled it out of my rear or from the air whatever the analogy. So I want to run it past all of you.
I have found out from my last signing party that book stores would rather host larger signing parties just because the Authors present would not only be representing their own work but their genre.
I am starting a Database for all the PA authors according to where they reside. I intend to list them by region and if anyone wants to help me out with this I’d appreciate it. The PA Family will thrive if we work together. I have a name for this organization I want to start, “Publish America’s Author Alliance Association.” If we could get PA to install a button on their site and label it “Book stores wanting to host signing parties” they would click on the state they are in and it would direct them to a “Signing Party Manager or Host” for that region. That manager or host would pull up the PA Author’s in that region and email them of a signing party in their area and to see if they are willing to participate. The “Signing Party Manager or Host” could have that author’s profile with their ISBN’s, their Genre and how far they would be willing to travel for a signing. This would increase our visibility to the public and draw business to the Bookstores. Together we will open the eyes of the world with public appearances, increase PA profits and increase our own Royalties. I haven’t fine-tuned all the questions that might pop up so email me and I can iron it out for all of us. . . .
. . . and this one won't either :
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19208
Why don't the many thousands of Publish America Authors band together and create our own Marketing department. We have authors from all over the world. If you read a book you like that was written by another PA author, put it on your website, tell your friends. If you live in Texas and the author lives in Rhode Island, and one of your friends has bought his book, then you've just spread the book all the way through the country. There must be hundreds of ways PA authors can help each other out, and I think we should definitly try to make other authors sell their books. It benefits us all because the more best sellers our publisher prints, the more book stores will start to recognize us. It is a circle of growth that is necessary to help us all achieve in this business. We are a family.
Anybody want to explain to the enthusiastic newbies—or maybe to the lurkers—why these ideas are doomed?

[stormie]

I'm sorry, I stopped reading at this: 'The PA Family will thrive if we work together. I have a name for this organization I want to start, “Publish America’s Author Alliance Association.” ' I nearly spit out my drink as I thought of the acronym for it. PAAAA.

Okay, deep breath, stop laughing, and I'll read on.

[tlblack]

The PAAAA eh? That sounds like a baby sheep in need of his daddy.

You're right, neither idea would ever work. PA would never agree to setting up any kind of page, or link. (that would constitute actual work)

[zizban]

The PAAAA eh? That sounds like a baby sheep in need of his daddy.

You're right, neither idea would ever work. PA would never agree to setting up any kind of page, or link. (that would constitute actual work)

How dare those heathens to think their publisher would help them.

[James D. Macdonald]

The idea to come up with a PA Author Driven Marketing Department is one of the ones that comes around on the PAMB every six to nine months, as the old posters leave and new ones come along trying to figure out how to sell their books.

As to the PAAAA, the poster is trying to independently re-invent http://www.meetup.com/

That person would be better advised to set up a bunch of PA Author Meetups using the existing site. This could work, and be fun. Also, when PA authors get together and compare notes, out of sight of InfoCenter ....

[spike]

The idea to come up with a PA Author Driven Marketing Department is one of the ones that comes around on the PAMB every six to nine months, as the old posters leave and new ones come along trying to figure out how to sell their books.

As to the PAAAA, the poster is trying to independently re-invent http://www.meetup.com/

That person would be better advised to set up a bunch of PA Author Meetups using the existing site. This could work, and be fun. Also, when PA authors get together and compare notes, out of sight of InfoCenter ....


I wonder if these people have any idea of what a publisher's marketing department does?

[spike]

This is so not gonna work:
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19377

Quote:
I was working my 9 to 5 today and I was thinking quite freely about of Marketing Strategies and I have come up with a plan or pulled it out of my rear or from the air whatever the analogy. So I want to run it past all of you.
I have found out from my last signing party that book stores would rather host larger signing parties just because the Authors present would not only be representing their own work but their genre.
I am starting a Database for all the PA authors according to where they reside. I intend to list them by region and if anyone wants to help me out with this I’d appreciate it. The PA Family will thrive if we work together. I have a name for this organization I want to start, “Publish America’s Author Alliance Association.” If we could get PA to install a button on their site and label it “Book stores wanting to host signing parties” they would click on the state they are in and it would direct them to a “Signing Party Manager or Host” for that region. That manager or host would pull up the PA Author’s in that region and email them of a signing party in their area and to see if they are willing to participate. The “Signing Party Manager or Host” could have that author’s profile with their ISBN’s, their Genre and how far they would be willing to travel for a signing. This would increase our visibility to the public and draw business to the Bookstores. Together we will open the eyes of the world with public appearances, increase PA profits and increase our own Royalties. I haven’t fine-tuned all the questions that might pop up so email me and I can iron it out for all of us. . . .


Anybody want to explain to the enthusiastic newbies—or maybe to the lurkers—why these ideas are doomed?

Doomed? That post is gone already.

Uncle Jim, you were on to something. PA doesn't want it's authors getting together.

[JimmyD1318]

He reposted his idea again....

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19381


I wonder how long before it goes POOF again? He'll get banned soon if he keeps this up.

[James D. Macdonald]

If someone is in touch with him, tell him about meetup.com

He can get a meetup going in his area, and suggest to other PA authors that they can do the same in their areas.

[rihannsu]

He reposted his idea again....

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19381


I wonder how long before it goes POOF again? He'll get banned soon if he keeps this up.

I'm wondering, since he's stirred up 4 other people and those people will probably start wondering where he went when he does go POOF, how does PA handle that?

Do they just delete him and his posts and never answer to the inquiries from the other posters? Just leave them to figure out what went on? Or do they come into the MB and post some BS to cover their butts?

[zizban]

I bet they delete him and his posts and ignore emails about it.

[Sparhawk]

I swore after I got my rights back that I'd never scan the PA message boards again. I, of course, broke that pledge shortly after I made it, there was some scandal going on I just had to check out. (I think it was the Cancer book)

But I just finished a quick check and it seems, well, sad. Where is HB Marcus cheering on the blind leagues of the faithful? Where is the controversy and the R rated nightgown pics of yesterday? <<Weep!!>> I'm actually nostalgic for the golden glory days of the PAMB.

What I see are desperate people that have been duped and sadly don't realize it. I see reincarnations of posts that have been up and deleted over and over again by authors gone by. Doesn't anyone ever wonder where all the "Verterean" PAvidians are? Are they not suspicious that the only posters are those who just have their book out or just got their acceptance or their <<CHOKE>> mighty dollar advance ?

I confess I was once a Pavidian, but after reading some posts here and learning the facts it was evident I made a foolish error in judgement. There's no shame in admitting that; I was taken, hustled, conned etc. I bought the whole PA line. Three years later I'm wiser for the lessons learned.

Denial is a very dangerous thing and that's all I see over there; a bunch of writers living in denial and a scant few who know better but continue feeding the dream. I feel saddened for those who were legitimatly suckered and will catch on after a few short months. It's a painful lesson I don't wish on anybody.

[rihannsu]

Doesn't anyone ever wonder where all the "Verterean" PAvidians are? Are they not suspicious that the only posters are those who just have their book out or just got their acceptance or their <<CHOKE>> mighty dollar advance ?

I confess I was once a Pavidian, but after reading some posts here and learning the facts it was evident I made a foolish error in judgement. There's no shame in admitting that; I was taken, hustled, conned etc. I bought the whole PA line. Three years later I'm wiser for the lessons learned.

Denial is a very dangerous thing and that's all I see over there; a bunch of writers living in denial and a scant few who know better but continue feeding the dream. I feel saddened for those who were legitimatly suckered and will catch on after a few short months. It's a painful lesson I don't wish on anybody.

I think in their denial they're telling themselves that the "Old Timers" are too busy writing their 3rd, 4th bestselling book to stop by and post a while. It makes them feel better to hope that's the case.

That comes from someone who spent most of her life in denial and would be posting on that MB if I hadn't stopped over here first.

I was just 2 clicks away from being in the same boat as these people and I know where they're coming from. My heart aches for them.

[CatSlave]

He reposted his idea again....

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19381


I wonder how long before it goes POOF again? He'll get banned soon if he keeps this up.

He's still there :)

[VGrossack]

The PA phrase that has always bothered me the most is the one in their acceptance letter: "give your book the chance it deserves." The irony is that the authors take the phrase with a positive spin, while PA must know that so many of the books don't deserve chances. The worst, of course, is for the few that do.

Victoria
www.tapestryofbronze.com

[Sassenach]

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19381

Remember! “We are One”

Creepy. And culty.

[zizban]

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19381

Remember! “We are One”

Creepy. And culty.

I'd say.

[stormie]

First there's this question: http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19387 "How many books does PA release a week?"

Then this answer: Yep, about 95-100 each week. Hundreds of unknown/unpublished authors are lucky to have PublishAmerica releasing their works. The major publishing companies reject about 97% of inquiries and of the 3% they contact for more info, etc. they reject about 90%. Why? Because they pay big bucks for space in bookstores, etc., heavy overhead costs,etc. and only break even on about 5 of every 10 they finally publish, making all of their big bucks from about 3 of every 10 they publish. Thanks, Publish America.

[J.S Greer]

Yep, about 95-100 each week. Hundreds of unknown/unpublished authors are lucky to have PublishAmerica releasing their works. The major publishing companies reject about 97% of inquiries and of the 3% they contact for more info, etc. they reject about 90%. Why? Because they pay big bucks for space in bookstores, etc., heavy overhead costs,etc. and only break even on about 5 of every 10 they finally publish, making all of their big bucks from about 3 of every 10 they publish. Thanks, Publish America.

Thats flat out scary.

[emsuniverse]

From a poster called "BigBerthaEvans": I was shut out of the author message board? I finally got it fixed! I really miss all you! I pray somebody missed me!

What'd she say to get kicked off in the first place?

[PVish]

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19453
The corrected edition of my novel arrived in late December of 2006. Since that time I have spent 12 hours per day promoting my book in all kinds of ways. Here is what I have discovered:
1. Books A Million will not stock any PA books on their shelves.
2. Target will not stock any PA books.
3. Wal-Mart will not stock PA books. (At least this appears to be the case.)
4. I have not found a bookstore yet, including Square Books in Oxford, Mississippi, that will stock books they have to buy from PA.
Yet they have thousands of books for sale including books from numerous publishers in New York and many other places. Something about profit index.
5. The only way I have gotten books in bookstores is to give them books on consignment.
I am securing newspaper reviews (8 so far) but have to give books to drugstores to make available to the public in the towns where the reviews are located.
I know this sounds negative, but my actual experience doesn't fit too well with the PA advertising. Maybe I'm overlooking something. Certainly, I'm appreciative for what PA has done for me. But I'm so eager to make money for them that I'm running up against walls. I know this doesn't sound modest, but the truth is that the people who have read my novel rave about it, pass it along to others, and state that it is one of the best they have read. They even call the newspapers to demand that they make an annoucement or give a review.
Thanks ahead of time to anyone who can give me some advice.

Oh, dear.

[Gravity]

Somebody better get a chair ready for that lady. And a tall glass of something strong...

[CatSlave]

Somebody better get a chair ready for that lady. And a tall glass of something strong...

We are commiserating with the author over on the NEPAT thread too.

[CatSlave]

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19465

http://bb.publishamerica.com/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?p=223213&sid=d814e9a132f9d699eaa1cd75e91d5998#223213)Posted : Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:19 pm Post subject: Just an idea for Publish America
It is the end of a six month period and we are all eagarly awaiting the results. It would be nice to know who the top 100 authors for P.A. are for the last 6 months or even for all of 2006. I do not want to know theri book sales or how much they made, that's no one elses business but their. Anyways I would like to see a string started for just those individuals should they wish to chime in and share how they wound up in that elite group.

I would LOVE to see the top 100 sales numbers. If this thread takes off it should be very interesting.

[Ol' Fashioned Girl]

I would LOVE to see the top 100 sales numbers. If this thread takes off it should be very interesting.

If any of them sold more than a hundred or so copies, I'd be amazed. I got my 1099 from them last week... I don't know who in the world bought my book last year (it came out in '05), but they claim I earned a whopping $22 for the whole year. Woohoo!

[CatSlave]

from the PA forum:

Question:
Is it legal for we who have published with PA to sign up for the Search Inside on Amazon.com? It asks if we have exclusive rights, including copyright and marketing/production rights. Has anyone ever done this with their books?
Thanks!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Answer:
I was told by PA support that it doesn't allow the search inside feature on Amazon because they are concerned with copywrite issues. We are the copywrite owners but they own the print, I was told.

Can someone explain this to me? Thanks.

[Ken Schneider]

I know I better Not get another check from PA for a book that came out in '04, and had the rights retunred in early '06.

I returned the last check to them and told them that since my book wasn't in stock at any of the wholesalers because I checked the day you gave me my rights. Unless, you've sold a copy illegally? They sold one. Thieves. Yup,you Lar, Mo, and the Portly Nazi.

[Christine N.]

Yeah, well they just threatened to sue me.

See the thread.

[CatSlave]

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19480

entitled "Negative PA banter"

[platedlizard]

Hi! I have heard a lot of things about PA, but the only problem I've had so far is getting libraries and some bookstores to order my book (or accept it as a donation even). This is probably because they don't feel there is enough demand for the book (being an unknown author) or just because it's easier to get into PA, that means every book by them is horrible or full of errors (which most are not, by the way).

A) Not being able to get your books into libraries or bookstores is a pretty big problem.

B) I can find plenty of new authors in both places. And besides, even Big Name Authors started out as complete unknowns at one point.

C) Atlanta Nights was both horrible and full of errors, and yet PA offered a contract. (BTW, Chapter 34 is my favorite)

[Christine N.]

This is from that same thread...
did extensive research on the company and its people. I know, from reviews and professional advice concerning my unpublished manuscript, that The Jade Chalice would have been published by any number of publishers in the marketplace. I chose Publish America as the only publisher that I sent my manuscript to because of my prior research examining what they would do for me.

And you didn't ask this 'professional advice' what they thought of PA? My friend if you did, you need new professionals.

[zizban]

Unfortunately, anything you've read on this board is just a drop in the bucket on negativity. On other websites and forums, people not only rant for weeks on end about PA; but they lurk on our boards here, pick out quotes from PA authors (out-of-context, I might add), and post them on their boards. They make fun of authors, give them degrading names, argue about them, e-mail them, etc.... In fact, the only really bad thing I've encountered about PA so far, are those people. So as not to stoop to that level, I won't mention exactly who.

I think she is talking about me with the email. I emailed her a few weeks back, carefully explaining how publishing works, etc and giving her a link to this board. All I got in reply was "I know about PA, leave me alone".

[emsuniverse]

Unfortunately, anything you've read on this board is just a drop in the bucket on negativity. On other websites and forums, people not only rant for weeks on end about PA; but they lurk on our boards here, pick out quotes from PA authors (out-of-context, I might add), and post them on their boards. They make fun of authors, give them degrading names, argue about them, e-mail them, etc.... In fact, the only really bad thing I've encountered about PA so far, are those people. So as not to stoop to that level, I won't mention exactly who.

I think the poster is referring to us.

[emsuniverse]

From the replies to the OP:

I have a product to sell and so does Publish America. We are working together. Not quite.

Same person:
Publish America read my manuscript, liked it and decided to publish it. It was a message I wanted to read. I signed a contract. Within months my manuscript was in print and done beautifully.
They didn't read it, they don't care about you, for God's sake!

Different poster:
I have read some of those negative posts about PA on other boards. All in all, PA's author board is by far one of the friendliest to post on.
That's because most of the posters drank the Kool-Aid.

[BenPanced]

I know, from reviews and professional advice concerning my unpublished manuscript, that The Jade Chalice would have been published by any number of publishers in the marketplace. I chose Publish America as the only publisher that I sent my manuscript to because of my prior research examining what they would do for me.
They would "publish" your book regardless of its quality and make you do the legwork? They would make you buy boxes of your book for you to sell to family, friends, and coworkers? They would "edit" your book and print it with errors, anyway? They would regularly send you "royalty" checks for $0.00? They would find a way to make excuses when your book isn't in bookstores or libraries? They would browbeat you into toeing the line NQA?

Sign me up.

[J.S Greer]

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19480

entitled "Negative PA banter"

Prior to my submitting my book, The Jade Chalice, to Publish America, I did extensive research on the company and its people. I know, from reviews and professional advice concerning my unpublished manuscript, that The Jade Chalice would have been published by any number of publishers in the marketplace. I chose Publish America as the only publisher that I sent my manuscript to because of my prior research examining what they would do for me.

Thats my favorite part.

[Christine N.]

I think we all have a different view of what 'marketplace' he's talking about. It seems to me that when many of these posters run in different circles than those of us in the industry.

Just spitballing here, but I've seen a lot of them say 'Oh, they would publish my book, but wanted SO much money'. I really believe they don't understand that they're not anywhere near the real book publishing 'marketplace'.

And it's totally possible that this gentleman could have had a shot at getting his book in with a commercial publisher. There are lots of good books being held hostage with PA. And lots of bad ones, since we KNOW for a FACT, that the books aren't read all the way through before being offered a contract. "Lower acceptance barriers" and all.


What about "learning your craft"? Ack.

[Sparhawk]

A good friend of mine went through Author House. The bill for publishing and promotion was deep. I don't know what "Package" he finally went with. I advised against it but my advice wasn't followed.

I checked their website and WOW!! You could rack up quite a tab with all the service fees they have for different things.

[Sparhawk]

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19480

entitled "Negative PA banter"


Man, now it's become a praise PA thread..<<sigh>>

[Christine N.]

Ugh. I'm feeling nauseous.

(wait, is that defamation?)

[zizban]

Here are two more quotes from that thread. They are just so mind boggling it defies any logic:

Hi, It's me, Paul C. - I received an E-mail when I first was accepted by PA to publish my book S*T*A*R, Surveillance of Terrorist Actions and Retaliation. The E-mail was from the United Kingdom and said they were former PA submitees. They went on about how PA didn't reveiw books and all. One person on the site said they typed out 30 pages of something, made several copies and submitted that to PA and was accepted. Seems to me these people are full of sour grapes. PA has made my dream come true, for now I am a published author, regardless if I sell another book or not. It's up to me to promote my book, for who knows more about it then I do. When I get these negitive remarks I just laugh, as I hold my book in my hands

Hi, it's me, Paul C. - Here's the problem, as I seeit, with all the negitive remarks about PA and this ties in with getting our books into the book stores. The people who smear PA have an agenda. They want to make it so our books are not going to sell. Unfortuneately, most people will believe all the nonsense being spewed out there about PA and even more unforunate, some of those people will be book stores. What to do? We, as authors, need to pound the pavement, as it were, and take our books to the stores to show them that they are quality material and that we are serious about our craft. I've just read some of the postings on these negitive sites and for the most part they attack the authors, not just PA. They say we're not legitimate published authors. so I think we need to prove them wrong. I am very pleased with my book and the cover. The only regret is that I was too quick in wanting to get my first book published that I opted for the # 2 option rather then choose the # 3 option. Live and learn. If any of my next books are accepted I'll know better.

[James D. Macdonald]

I checked theirh website and WOW!! You could rack up quite a tab with all the service fees they have for defferent things.

You can rack up quite a bill with PA, too, what with buying your own books and making flyers and business cards (and tablecloths).

I wonder how much, in dollars and time, the author mentioned above wound up spending with PA.

[Sparhawk]

You can rack up quite a bill with PA, too, what with buying your own books and making flyers and business cards (and tablecloths).

I wonder how much, in dollars and time, the author mentioned above wound up spending with PA.

Amen, Uncle Jim.

With PA the costs are hidden and "After the fact."

[spike]

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19480

entitled "Negative PA banter"

The PA faithful have been checking in with the reasons people bash PA. I've done a quick count:

Publishing industry doesn't like change 2
Ex-PA authors disappointed they didn't have a best seller 3
Ex-PA authors who don't read their contract/faq 1
Mainstream publishers threatened by or jealous of PA 1
Subsidy publishers jealous of PA success 1
Sour Grapes 1

It's the same old, same old. Everything bad about PA is wrong.

It reminds me of the old joke:
Parents are watching their son in the marching band during half-time.
The father says, "Look! Everyone's out of step except our boy John."

[Christine N.]

Yeah, the negativity around PA ties in with not getting to bookstores. Couldn't be the... books, now, could it? Or that just about everyone knows about the Atlanta Nights scandal and realizes there is no quality control at PA. Cancer boy and the Plagerized Poetry Book prove that, and we didn't even have anything to do with it.

Or that the publisher makes no effort or has no incentive for stores to stock books and make a profit.

Nah, couldn't be that. It's all us.

[JulieB]

They say we're not legitimate published authors. so I think we need to prove them wrong.

You have a long road ahead of you and I sincerely wish you luck.

[Christine N.]

Maybe they don't know about PA's 'lower acceptance barrier'.

Doesn't that make you feel good. Not good enough for regular publishers? Good enough for us!

[James D. Macdonald]

Unfortuneately, most people will believe all the nonsense being spewed out there about PA and even more unforunate, some of those people will be book stores.

What, do you mean that the bookstores won't believe their own eyes when they see what kind of "discount" PA is offering?

[CatSlave]

QUESTION:
Being new ~ I have a question to add to this too.... Doesn't PA set up book signings and such? In the contract it says they market the book.... I know there is always more you can do on your own, but don't they do a fair share as well??)

ANSWER:
No, they do not set up book signings but they get your book posted on all the internet bookseller's sites, send out press releases and notices to all the names you submitted. Consider the number of books published by PA and then ask yourself what more they could do for you or any other writer. PA has then done its fair share and the legwork is up to you.

Oh, the weasel words, and the weasels that promote them!
May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your weasels.

[James D. Macdonald]

I know there is always more you can do on your own, but don't they do a fair share as well??)


No, they will market your book "at the publisher's election and discretion." (http://www.cs.du.edu/~aburt/StingContract.pdf)

Which means "if we feel like it."

Short answer: No. They don't do their fair share.

(Compare this typical vanity press's contract (http://www.jmbpub.com/jmbpub_pcontract.rtf) with PA's contract. Sound eerily familiar?)

Just getting listed on Internet booksellers' sites: That's a function of having an ISBN. No action required from them.

[Christine N.]

Hey, they could do what every other commercial publisher does...

Publish fewer books, and spend time actually, yanno, making sure they're worth selling. Yanno, read 'em all the way through, picking ones that are the best, putting a real effort into a smaller number of books.

Nah, why would they want to do that?

[JulieB]

I'm looking at this book fair order form for scholastic and thought that it would be good to develop a PA order form with many PA authors books listed on it to distribute like they do the Scholastic materials in school except ours would go out to the public and school.

I can speak to this one as I spent two years in charge of fund raising for the school PTO. In fact, I could write a whole essay as to why this probably won't work. And believe it or not, only one or two points would have anything to do with PA.

This poster needs to talk with a school principal and someone on the PTA/PTO board at a local school about getting their products into schools. Yes, even via fliers. Ask what kind of profit they expect. It'll be a real eye-opener.

(And I can state from my experience that parents are less likely to order books from fliers, even when a company as big as Scholastic is behind them. Not when the school has two book fairs in a year, at any rate.)

[BenPanced]

Hey, they could do what every other commercial publisher does...

Publish fewer books, and spend time actually, yanno, making sure they're worth selling. Yanno, read 'em all the way through, picking ones that are the best, putting a real effort into a smaller number of books.

Nah, why would they want to do that?
And abandon The Wave of the Futuretm?

[Christine N.]

My book is probably going to be featured at the old Alma Mater elementary school for this year's book fair. I was just going to do the sale during my author visit, but THEY suggested to do it this way.

BUT. BUT. BUT. I am also following up the sale with an author visit. And they school will be ordering direct from my publisher. AND they will be getting the 40% school and library discount. AND they won't be getting a bill for those books until after the sale AND they can send back any that they didn't sell.

So... there ya go. A PA author doesn't stand a chance with a school when they can't offer any of that. The author would have to pay up front for the books, and then take back any that didn't sell, and they'd probably have boxes of books in the garage afterwards, and be out a ton of money.

BUT they wouldn't be able to get in anyway, since they couldn't offer the discount.

I think, though, that this PA author is suggesting a little order form for all PA books, to be sent through the mail to people. Like when you get the "Book Club" fliers, with all the little pictures of the books on them.

Just what I need, more junk mail. PA would never endorse it.

[JulieB]

Yep, there ya go.

And congratulations.

The school gets the 40% profit (assuming they charge full list price), and I'll bet you get royalties on sales, right?

[Christine N.]

Yes ma'am. :D

[JimmyD1318]

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=18872&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=18872&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight)=

Once again PA has put out another book with errors. They sure do love staying consistent, don't they? :D

[zizban]

If they are not to blatent, I wouldn't worry about it. For instance, we have a consistant error which we missed and that is the incorrect use of it's and its. I'm sure readers are forgiving as only one or two people mentioned it

Ha, ha. He's serious, too.

[Christine N.]

Maybe only one or two people read it?

[James D. Macdonald]

I think, though, that this PA author is suggesting a little order form for all PA books, to be sent through the mail to people. Like when you get the "Book Club" fliers, with all the little pictures of the books on them.

That's an idea that some bright-eyed honeymooner comes up with every year or so on the PAMB. Nothing ever comes of it, of course.

We ought to start numbering those ideas, to save time and space. This one, the PA Book Club, can be #56A.

[zizban]

Dont be too hard on bookstores. They are in it for one reason and that is to make money. Actually they may have done you a favor.
Generally a bookstore will order 20 to 25 books for a booksigning. Lets say you only sold 3 books. What happens to the rest? They might put them on their shelves for a week or so, but if they didnt sell, the would be returned much to your embarrassment especially if PA has paid you a royalty on those books and now you owe PA because the book was returned.

now you owe PA because the book was returned

Just...wow!

[Saundra Julian]

Unbelievable and so sad!

[James D. Macdonald]

now you owe PA because the book was returned

For our friends who are published by PA:

No, you don't owe PA anything. It's just that PA doesn't owe you any royalties for that book.

If PA claims that they don't owe you any royalties, I hope that you'll request an audit. PA's accounting standards are apparently ... lax.

[Arkie]

After PA began the five percent discount/return program, they changed the royalty statements.

They added a line for "Returned Books" indicating an 8% percent debit in the Royalty Amount column (subtracted from earned royalties). This is why I would never have pressured a bookstore to order books for shelf placement, or for a signing. Theoretically, books returned based on 8% discount could negate all royalties, and could royally (pardon the pun) put the author in the royalty hole.

I have not read that a PA author has had to refund royalty payments based on a negative royalty statement, but the construction of the statement does give rise to the urban legend that in fact it could happen.

I expect the purpose for this bookkeeping innovation is to pressure authors to purchase books directly; thereby, forgoing royalties (PA authors do not earn royalties on books they purchase), but the author would not be subjected to the possibility of being penalized for store returns.

[zizban]

After PA began the five percent discount/return program, they changed the royalty statements.

They added a line for "Returned Books" indicating an 8% percent debit in the Royalty Amount column (subtracted from earned royalties). This is why I would never have pressured a bookstore to order books for shelf placement, or for a signing. Theoretically, books returned based on 8% discount could negate all royalties, and could royally (pardon the pun) put the author in the royalty hole.

I have not read that a PA author has had to refund royalty payments based on a negative royalty statment, but the construction of the statment does give credence to the urban legend that in fact it could happen.

I expect the purpose for this bookkeeping innovation is to pressure authors to purchase books directly; thereby, forgoing royalties (PA authors do not earn royalties on books they purchase), but the author would not be subjected to the possibility of being penalized for store returns.

Why does PA waste so much time screwing over their own authors? I know their evil scammers but it defies logic and common sense to be this scummy.

[spinnerin]

Why does PA waste so much time screwing over their own authors? I know their evil scammers but it defies logic and common sense to be this scummy.

I've started wondering that too. The game they're running seems like it must be exhausting to keep up, especially since the authors can talk to each other online and trade notes. I'm reminded of a few movies that portray con artists as a kind of addict.

I'm also surprised that no one has sued the pants off them yet.

[brianm]

Unlike so many other art forms, the act (not the art) of writing is something anyone can do with today's technology. If computers and the Internet did not exist, how many of these people would actually do the work that is required to become an artist/writer?

For every PA writer that becomes unhappy, there are at least 1000 more "writers" waiting in the wings for the ego stroke. Everything PA does is based on stroking the ego, and then pocketing hard-earned money.

Some people want to believe there is an easy way to become an artist, and PA fulfills that for them, temporarily. When reality sets in, it separates the serious writer from the fortune/fame hunter.

There is so much "celebrity" in the world today, and so many want a piece of the money and fame that goes with it. They fail to understand that money and fame have nothing to do with being an artist and when their 15 minutes of fame is up, they refuse to let go of their dreams.

[stormie]

For every PA writer that becomes unhappy, there are at least 1000 more "writers" waiting in the wings for the ego stroke.

Some people want to believe there is an easy way to become an artist, and PA fulfills that for them, temporarily.

There is so much "celebrity" in the world today, and so many want a piece of the money and fame that goes with it.

Yes, yes, and yes. And PA exploits that beautifully.

[CatSlave]

For our friends who are published by PA:

No, you don't owe PA anything. It's just that PA doesn't owe you any royalties for that book.

If PA claims that they don't owe you any royalties, I hope that you'll request an audit. PA's accounting standards are apparently ... lax.

PA does not pay royalties on books the author purchases himself.
Keep that in mind when you are estimating your profits.

[CatSlave]

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19543

I thought I could post something that might be helpful to all you artists and writers. I guess I must have crossed one of PA's lines. Sorry. Guess I'll just stop trying to be helpfull. So long everyone.

Too bad. I hope someone can direct him to the AW forum.

[James D. Macdonald]

I thought I could post something that might be helpful to all you artists and writers.

What was that all about?

[CatSlave]

What was that all about?

Dunno. Looks like his post was deleted before anyone could read it.
I hope any comments that follow may shed some light on what he was offering as help.

[brianm]

What was that all about?

He appears to be an artist/sculptor more than an author. His site shows off his artwork that is for sale, along with his two books. He drew the covers for both books.

Maybe he started a thread about covers and offered his services by saying... "If someone would like an original cover for their book, instead of the standard, been used 1000 times cover, and something that actually depicts what their book is about... please contact me."

[CatSlave]

He appears to be an artist/sculptor more than an author. His site shows off his artwork that is for sale, along with his two books. He drew the covers for both books.

Maybe he started a thread about covers and offered his services by saying... "If someone would like an original cover for their book, instead of the standard, been used 1000 times cover, and something that actually depicts what their book is about... please contact me."
That makes sense. From the looks of his website, he appears to be quite talented.
(I see his website link is now further down in the thread.)
Good luck to him.

[James D. Macdonald]

Maybe he referred to this painting (http://www.yessy.com/wetherholtstudio/index.html?i=8371) and they took it wrong?

[CatSlave]

Maybe he referred to this painting (http://www.yessy.com/wetherholtstudio/index.html?i=8371) and they took it wrong?
Not that they're paranoid or anything. :)

[brianm]

Maybe he referred to this painting (http://www.yessy.com/wetherholtstudio/index.html?i=8371) and they took it wrong?

LOL... warn before you do that! I spit coffee up all over my screen!

[Ken Schneider]

I bet he could post a five thousand word sales pitch about his PA book and it'd stay up.

[zizban]

I sent him a brief email with a link back here. Maybe he'll show up.

[CatSlave]

I've started wondering that too. The game they're running seems like it must be exhausting to keep up, especially since the authors can talk to each other online and trade notes.

PA closely monitors their forum -and this one- and deletes comments at will, if they appear to be negative toward PA in any way. They will lock threads, remove comments and ban authors at the drop of a hat. Anyone who does not adhere to the PA cult mentality gets tossed out of there. There is no freedom of speech on that forum whatsoever.

It's for your own good; we don't want negative comments to discourage you.

What the PA authors need is a private, unmonitored forum in order to speak their minds and compare notes.
Big Brother Is Watching You is exactly what is happening at PA. It's creepy!

[brianm]

Here's how he responded later...

Authors can use this site to list and sell their books as long as they are collectables, which they are as long as they are signed copies. I only posted my books there today and they are receiving hits already. Since Jan. ii my site has been hit over 6000 times from all over the world. I thought this might be a unique way to sell your books that you've purchased from PA.

[platedlizard]

* I don't know how to take a posting from PA and place it here, so I just copied and pasted it in word.

Brianm, just write [ quote ] XXX [ /quote ] without the spaces and copy/paste the quoted bit in the middle where the XXX is. If you want to indicate who is quoting you can do [ quote=Jane Smith ]text here[ /quote ].

[brianm]

And here is what PA said this morning...

In his original post, the gentleman was offering a service in return for money. Not allowed on this board.

Something told me the original post had to be something about making money.

(platedlizard, thank you for the info.)

[Ken Schneider]

PA closely monitors their forum -and this one- and deletes comments at will, if they appear to be negative toward PA in any way. They will lock threads, remove comments and ban authors at the drop of a hat. creepy!

They've been doing that for the whole 6 years they've been in business.

They booted me off two years ago. Nothing has changed except the people.

99% of the people that have a book through PA are first time writers and that was their first stab at trying to be published.

Easy targets for wolves in business clothing.

[xhouseboy]

And here is what PA said this morning...



Something told me the original post had to be something about making money.

(platedlizard, thank you for the info.)

I can see Infocenter's point. Any disposable income sloshing around must be sent directly to PA. They probably seen this guy as someone attempting to muscle in on their racket...sorry, business.

[DeadlyAccurate]

I've started wondering that too. The game they're running seems like it must be exhausting to keep up, especially since the authors can talk to each other online and trade notes. I'm reminded of a few movies that portray con artists as a kind of addict.

It makes sense if you think about con artists as people who get just as much thrill out of fooling people as they do about making money. For just a second, allow yourself to feel the schadenfreude and sense of superiority from tricking people, and you'll understand. For the majority of people, our conscience and decency outweighs any perceived pleasures. But if you have no sense of shame...



(Note: IANAP)

[James D. Macdonald]

As failed writers themselves, the Stooges want other writers to fail. Any one of the writers they pull down could be (and many are) more talented and more skilled writers than any of the Stooges. And knowing that chafes them. Harming others is as much of a motive to them as making money or the thrill of running a succesful scam.

[zizban]

According to Tom Rent ( http://publications.clarylopez.com/articles.html ) "only a handful of POD books to date have sold over 5000 copies, a number most traditional publishers start at for a new title print-run. But given more time, this likely will change as POD catches on across the industry."

At first I wondered how this wasn't deleted by infocenter then I read it again. The poster is confusing the technology with the business model.

(and I can not imagine a day will come anytime soon where Random House will do a first run of books on POD machine).

[J.S Greer]

For every PA writer that becomes unhappy, there are at least 1000 more "writers" waiting in the wings for the ego stroke.

And really, this is it in a nutshell.

Well said.:Hug2:

[CatSlave]

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19587

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:47 am
Post subject: Again, Who is the Head of PA and or the assistant, or vice

I asked this question previously, but have received no answer and it was deleted. Why?


This should be interesting.

[Sparhawk]

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19587

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:47 am
Post subject: Again, Who is the Head of PA and or the assistant, or vice

I asked this question previously, but have received no answer and it was deleted. Why?


This should be interesting.

"Buy Meiner's book, it will tell all!" What a laughable reply. The poster than got spanked by somebody else who spilled the goods. I give this thread about half a day. The woman who got rebuked is a PA Matriarch, maybe there'll be some in house drama before infomonster shuts things down.

[zizban]

Its gone.

[Sparhawk]

Its gone.

Infomonster must be monitoring this thread, LOL!!!... HI Infomonster :tongue

[Maddog]

It won't last...

Does PA drop you if you make more sales? That's just wrong! Why would PA drop you , that's how they make their money, SALES! Why would they not want you to sell? I can't seem to understand this??? The reason people aren't selling more is not PA's fault. I believe the Authors are just letting PA do all the work. You have to tell people too! They print your book for free! This is how they make their money back, this just plain doesn't make sense to me? Will someone please explain this to me, I'm new. My book is not on the shelf yet but it will be in six to eight weeks. What should I expect? My book is called...

[James D. Macdonald]

PA makes its money on bulk sales to you, the author.

They aren't interested in sales to the public through bookstores. That's why they do everything in their power to stop them.

[CatSlave]

Infomonster must be monitoring this thread, LOL!!!... HI Infomonster :tongue

That's a full-time job, monitoring us and them.
I wonder if the Infomonster is starting to feel like Lucy and Ethel at the conveyor belt in the candy factory. :) :)

[JimmyD1318]

That's a full-time job, monitoring us and them.
I wonder if the Infomonster is starting to feel like Lucy and Ethel at the conveyor belt in the candy factory. :) :)

The image that just came to my mind nearly made me spit up my drink!:ROFL: Good one!!

[tlblack]

Attention PA writers:

I opened a discussion in the fantasy chat room, The question was,"Does anybody actually buy anyone elses book??"

The comments against PA and its writers were awful, bordering on Defamitory. Don't worry I stood up for us, but if you're interested you can check it out and add your own 2 cents.



This one was posted on the PAMB last night and had also included a link to the discussion he was referring to. Since then the post has been edited so that the link is no longer there. For any of the PA authors who read these threads, here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/discussionboard/cd/discussion.html/ref=cm_cd_notf_message/002-6622013-9350452?ie=UTF8&cdForum=FxRHP2KEWXI0H1&cdPage=3&cdThread=Tx1UFC90AMNOEHE#MxQG2LHAH9CBL4) is the link he posted last night before it disappeared from the post.

[brianm]

I saw that last night.

No one was bashing PA members on the amazon message board. The gentlemen in question claims to be an attorney, and yet he still signed the PA contract. He claims he only wanted to have his book about his daughter printed so he could share his thoughts with her in print. However, he has another book he wants PA to print.

It just goes to show that some people will close their eyes to the truth in order to get their ego stroked. Regardless of what supporting a scam company does to writers who are interested in a serious career.

[brianm]

Pa has deleted this thread from their message board for the second time.

Attention PA writers:

I opened a discussion in the fantasy chat room, The question was,"Does anybody actually buy anyone elses book??"

The comments against PA and its writers were awful, bordering on Defamitory. Don't worry I stood up for us, but if you're interested you can check it out and add your own 2 cents.

Maybe the OP will start to get the idea that something is up with PA. Considering his responses in the thread he is referring to, I doubt it. However, there’s always a chance he'll start to question why they would delete his thread twice.

[Ken Schneider]

I saw that last night.

No one was bashing PA members on the amazon message board. The gentlemen in question claims to be an attorney, and yet he still signed the PA contract. He claims he only wanted to have his book about his daughter printed so he could share his thoughts with her in print. However, he has another book he wants PA to print.

It just goes to show that some people will close their eyes to the truth in order to get their ego stroked. Regardless of what supporting a scam company does to writers who are interested in a serious career.

Not really. If one just wants two copies of thier book and doesn't purchase any from PA, doesn't care that PA has the rights to that book for seven years, then no harm is done.

What the poor guy doesn't know is that if he doesn't buy any of the first book they'll never print the second one.

Why waste money to print a second book that they know will never net them any money.

[Queen of Swords]

established publishers have very large overhead to pay. They are ruled by the almighty dollar and often their creative decision are ruled by that priority.

The irony is remarkable. What are PA's creative decisions ruled by? Altruism? Sheer love for all the unpublished writers out there?