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Dave.C.Robinson
07-03-2007, 12:20 AM
There is belief, and it is a good thing. However I think what PA is relying on is the idea that it takes no more to write a novel than to type one. Neither is easy, but writing a novel is much harder than typing one.

Marie Pacha
07-03-2007, 12:34 AM
It's not because of your publisher that the comment was made in my opinion.

Let me try and explain it this way; without getting personal.

My sons are 17 and 18, and when they were younger (in elementary and middle school) I volunteered with their classes a great deal. I would get very frustrated with the kids' essays, because their punctuation, and grammar, and spelling was often terrible. (I've nagged my own sons for years about it.) The explanation the teachers gave me was "whole English" where they teach the kids to express their ideas and be creative, and gloss over errors in punctuation and spelling. That's great...I'm all for it; except for one thing; some of their ideas were unintelligible because of spelling and punctuation mistakes.

It doesn't do anyone a bit of good to be creative if no one else can understand you.

Since I signed my first contract with PA I've taken at least 6 college level courses in various aspects of writing; from business communications to writing screenplays. I was not a BAD writer back then, but I am a much better writer now. I have learned a tremendous amount in the process; primarily that I still don't know it all, and I have at least two reference books on grammar and punctuation alone sitting next to my desk to help me out when I get stuck.

Potential is a wonderful thing to have, but it takes effort to make a project come to fruition. Creativity alone won't accomplish that. And I for one don't want to be just a good writer. I want to be a GREAT writer!

Oh, and PA is one of my publishers too.

Sheryl Nantus
07-03-2007, 12:46 AM
Would I have got them if I had a different pub? Think about it.

Bad writing is bad writing. On the PAMB they make a habit out of putting down other books from legitimate publishers with claims of typos and bad writing.

If you're a bad writer, your publisher won't help. What WILL help is honest criticism. What PA authors offer and get from each other is nothing but backrubs and applause, no matter whether the writing in question is crap or not.

A real friend tells you when your writing isn't up to snuff. A friend who does nothing but pat you on the head and tell you you're a genius isn't worth much, IMO. And certainly not in the real world.

As I've said before - friends don't let friends go to PublishAmerica.

Jersey Chick
07-03-2007, 12:51 AM
Things like punctuation and grammar can be learned by anyone, providing they are willing to really learn it. Creativity and the ability to tell a good story are either there or they aren't. I can tell a good story on paper, but I'm a sucky storyteller otherwise. My kids never ask me to make something up on the spot and even recounting my day comes out as boring as anything.

I have also taken writing classes (I majored in journalism) - which I don't think helped. What helped me was learning from reading books I like, and the things other writers have shared with me. I've gotten more out of a local RWA chapter meeting than I did a semester in creative writing.

Afinerosesheis
07-03-2007, 01:07 AM
Everyone has valid points here, some I agree with and some I don't. I'm not going to post a resume of my writing skills and talents, but I still am a writer, just like you.

I enjoy it here at AW, made some friends and learned a lot. I see where you invite PA writers to our forums here.

Pull up a chair and join us. You are welcome here.

I think that is great, but when the PA writers arrive don't nit-pick them and talk down to them. This is just as detrimental to them as drinking the kool-aide. There are some here who do that. If you really want to help the PA author, be productive and a true friend whether their writing needs improvement or not. It is ultimately up to them to make the changes to advance themselves in their craft. Lectures and cheap shots will only hold them back.
Surely there is another approach that can be taken to help all PA authors who do come here.





Hugs~~Mel:Hug2:

Marie Pacha
07-03-2007, 01:08 AM
I never took a class in creative writing. I took classes in Technical Communications, Forms of Poetry, Business Writing, Literary Non-fiction, Screenplay Writing; and even my Mass Media and Human Communication (speech) classes helped my writing, because they helped me define my "voice", and all of them have helped me to learn to adapt that voice to the message I am trying to deliver.

I'm not particularly talented at oral storytelling, but then I don't want to be.

ResearchGuy
07-03-2007, 01:12 AM
Meanwhile, Porn Guy, over in his blog, posts:

The official book release has been set for August 18th, 2007 in all major bookstores nationwide.

. . .
Boy howdy THAT got a belly laugh out of me!

I have known a PA author who, long after his books were published, believed that the books were in fact "in bookstores from sea to shining sea" -- simply in denial.

I would not be surprised if the porn fellow turns out to be similarly delusional.

--Ken

Christine N.
07-03-2007, 01:17 AM
And bad writing isn't accepted and slapped between covers at most other publishers, either.

Mel, you know I know he's a nice enough fella. And really he's just being used as an example of what we see quite often, and it's not his fault, it's PA's fault, because sometimes the authors get this idea that PA's acceptance means they're writing doesn't need to improve. Not saying that is the case here, it's just that his samples leave something to be desired, and if someone were to come across them on the web, they probably wouldn't buy the book, regardless of subject matter, because of the glaring errors.

We ARE all writers, sure enough.

I nit-pick about all grammar and punctuation when it comes to published material, no matter who has written it. I expect a certain amount of missed typos and such in any book, but too many and I start to get suspect ideas about the editor.

endless rewrite
07-03-2007, 02:46 AM
If you don't believe in yourself and your ability, and believe you have the potential to write great things for readers to enjoy, why bother?

Every writer has to be their own biggest fan and sternest critic. I am not criticising you for having self belief. Believing that writing a book or anything else automatically puts you on a level with every author out there is naive at best, arrogance at worse. We can not all possibly be at the same level or start with the same talent or the same strengths. To think that writing a book means you produce the same quality of work as every other author is a nonsense. It is that mind set that leaves so many authors stuck in the PA trap.

Being able to write a book has nothing at all to do with the validation or worth of a person, we are all equal and valuable yes, but the writing itself will always be judged be it by editors, publishers, reviewers, readers and hopefully the author themselves. You are not getting nit picking or slighted here, you are just not getting pandered to. It would be far worse if people treated PA authors with kid gloves because we were scared of being as honest and rigorous with them as we are with each other. When people are straight with you it is out of respect, when they soft soap you it is out of pity. The approach taken here is to treat you like a writer, nothing more, nothing less - surely that is productive?

Marie Pacha
07-03-2007, 03:08 AM
Well said, endless.

Christine N.
07-03-2007, 03:28 AM
Oh definitely.

An essential part of being a writer is recognizing when you're writing crap and when you're not.

I write crap all the time, but no one sees it but me. (I hope... you all aren't just being nice to me, are you, saying you like my books? Oh, wait, wrong neurosis...)

Komnena
07-03-2007, 03:32 AM
Everyone has valid points here, some I agree with and some I don't. I'm not going to post a resume of my writing skills and talents, but I still am a writer, just like you.

I enjoy it here at AW, made some friends and learned a lot. I see where you invite PA writers to our forums here.

Pull up a chair and join us. You are welcome here.

I think that is great, but when the PA writers arrive don't nit-pick them and talk down to them. This is just as detrimental to them as drinking the kool-aide. There are some here who do that. If you really want to help the PA author, be productive and a true friend whether their writing needs improvement or not. It is ultimately up to them to make the changes to advance themselves in their craft. Lectures and cheap shots will only hold them back.
Surely there is another approach that can be taken to help all PA authors who do come here.





Hugs~~Mel:Hug2:

Mel
I don't think anyone's disputing you're a writer. Certainly I wouldn't, since you've finished at least one draft and I'm only 34 pages into a very rough draft.
Yes, it is up to the writer to decide to improve or not. But I don't think writers can choose to believe their work is perfect as it is and expect the whole world to agree. If you want an audience beyond your friends or family I think it logically follows that you want to improve the quality of your work. If you don't want to improve your work then others here are justified in thinking you're not serious about writing. I don't think "lectures and cheap shots" hold people back nearly as much as refusal to improve the quality of their work. I know that if and when I finish the rough draft, it'll require a fair amount of polishing before it's ready to be nitpicked in order that I can improve it enough to have a fair chance of its getting out of the slush pile, which is what I would ultimately like to see happen.

Afinerosesheis
07-03-2007, 03:34 AM
I didn't ask nor did I want to be pandered. I just wanted to make a point. I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to ooh and aah when it isn't warranted. Yet I'm not going to lay my head in defeat because I'm not a perfect writer. That's all I was saying.

IT went from a conversation about another author to perfection in work and PA and I didn't take it there. Just want to stay positive. There is enough negativity out there as it is.

Jersey Chick
07-03-2007, 03:35 AM
I know when I write a first draft, there's a good chance part of it's going to be crap. With each successive draft, I try to de-crapify it and make it better. Sometimes I succeed and other times... well, that's what the bottoms of desk drawers are for.

The thing is, I've learned to tell the difference and I would so much rather someone tell me it's crap than for me to go on believing every word is sterling. Cheerleaders are great if you need a little pick-me-up, but if their words are hollow praise, it only hurts you in the long run.

James D. Macdonald
07-03-2007, 04:08 AM
If you need permission to write badly, here you go:

http://www.sff.net/people/yog/permission.pdf

JimmyD1318
07-03-2007, 04:12 AM
If you need permission to write badly, here you go:

http://www.sff.net/people/yog/permission.pdf


WOW! Thank you Uncle Jim! I have been needing one of those! I know most of the stuff I put out is crap!:ROFL: Now I don't have to feel bad about it!

Jersey Chick
07-03-2007, 04:24 AM
Ah - now I officially have license to produce garbage.

how cool is that? ;)

shakeysix
07-03-2007, 05:07 AM
Okay, I have been lurking on this board since early this year. I have also been on the PA public board. Sometime this spring I decided that AW was the real deal and PA was pretty much a scam.

I live in a town of 500 people in a county that is so ridiculously rural that our public library is a one room schoolhouse and we still sign our books out in pencil, on cards. Obviously I know nothing about Publishing and the world of letters and presses. But (misguidedly perhaps) I do write. In fact I have been so busy writing that I almost never send anything in and when I do I get rejected because of things I don't understand like genre and markets.

A few years ago I had some contact with PA and it sounded like just what I, shakey6, unpublished country bumpkin, needed to get my novels and stories into print, easily. (Hang on to that easily). At the time I did not follow through. It was close.

This winter when I went online to contact PA I found this board and P&E too. The first thing that caught my attention was the humor, especially on AW. Not much humor with PA--at least not the kind that involves insight and scholastics. More of a self promotion campaign and a constant digging at the established industry in a stern lecturing voice. All of my life I have had a distrust of people who take themselves too seriously. It usually indicates they don't give a rat's ass about me or anyone else.

The second thing I noticed was that the appeal used by PA was almost entirely to emotion: A textbook appeal to Pathos. I might be a bumpkin, but I also teach bumpkins college level Composition. And one of the things our book outlines so simply that it is impossible for the thickest, snuffdipping rodeo queen to miss, is that if someone plays constantly on your fears, your self doubt, your self -esteem, your desire for instant gratification, that person does not have your best interests at heart. Hitler is the example our textbook uses. Go figure.

And so, it was not the hundreds of success/ horror stories that made up my mind. Out here in the boonies it all sounds like he said-she said to me. And it was not the Logos--the cold toting up of figures. It was the general tone of the boards. AW sounds credible. PA does not.

Now this is longwinded and probably misspelled, although I am taking great care to cap and punctuate. I am doing so because this is an appeal to Ethos. If I assert that I am a writer then I must use the best skills I can to communicate, or I blow my credibility. Not easy--often time consuming and tedious, but something that I must do to establish that I care what I write.

And this is my first and last post on this forum. You folks know WAY more about this subject than I do, just thought you might want to hear from Dogpatch! --s6

CatSlave
07-03-2007, 05:22 AM
Enjoyed your post! Hope you stick around.

brianm
07-03-2007, 05:22 AM
Okay, I have been lurking on this board since early this year. I have also been on the PA public board. Sometime this spring I decided that AW was the real deal and PA was pretty much a scam.

I live in a town of 500 people in a county that is so ridiculously rural that our public library is a one room schoolhouse and we still sign our books out in pencil, on cards. Obviously I know nothing about Publishing and the world of letters and presses. But (misguidedly perhaps) I do write. In fact I have been so busy writing that I almost never send anything in and when I do I get rejected because of things I don't understand like genre and markets.

A few years ago I had some contact with PA and it sounded like just what I, shakey6, unpublished country bumpkin, needed to get my novels and stories into print, easily. (Hang on to that easily). At the time I did not follow through. It was close.

This winter when I went online to contact PA I found this board and P&E too. The first thing that caught my attention was the humor, especially on AW. Not much humor with PA--at least not the kind that involves insight and scholastics. More of a self promotion campaign and a constant digging at the established industry in a stern lecturing voice. All of my life I have had a distrust of people who take themselves too seriously. It usually indicates they don't give a rat's ass about me or anyone else.

The second thing I noticed was that the appeal used by PA was almost entirely to emotion: A textbook appeal to Pathos. I might be a bumpkin, but I also teach bumpkins college level Composition. And one of the things our book outlines so simply that it is impossible for the thickest, snuffdipping rodeo queen to miss, is that if someone plays constantly on your fears, your self doubt, your self -esteem, your desire for instant gratification, that person does not have your best interests at heart. Hitler is the example our textbook uses. Go figure.

And so, it was not the hundreds of success/ horror stories that made up my mind. Out here in the boonies it all sounds like he said-she said to me. And it was not the Logos--the cold toting up of figures. It was the general tone of the boards. AW sounds credible. PA does not.

Now this is longwinded and probably misspelled, although I am taking great care to cap and punctuate. I am doing so because this is an appeal to Ethos. If I assert that I am a writer then I must use the best skills I can to communicate, or I blow my credibility. Not easy--often time consuming and tedious, but something that I must do to establish that I care what I write.

And this is my first and last post on this forum. You folks know WAY more about this subject than I do, just thought you might want to hear from Dogpatch! --s6

If that is how a country bumpkin writes, then this overly educated Irishman is in dire need of some fresh country air. :D

Well said, shakeysix.

Komnena
07-03-2007, 05:44 AM
I didn't ask nor did I want to be pandered. I just wanted to make a point. I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to ooh and aah when it isn't warranted. Yet I'm not going to lay my head in defeat because I'm not a perfect writer. That's all I was saying.

IT went from a conversation about another author to perfection in work and PA and I didn't take it there. Just want to stay positive. There is enough negativity out there as it is.


I don't think anyone expects you to lay your head in defeat. If Robert Heinlein had done that after realizing his first book was unpublishable I wouldn't have gotten to read Have Spacesuit Will Travel, one of my favorite books.

Jersey Chick
07-03-2007, 05:45 AM
Hear, hear! :)

Mel
07-03-2007, 08:56 PM
The vinyl is ready to roll. Watch for the car-billboards in your town!

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=22008
Hi everyone...
As I had posted before on the marketing tips page, I have the ability to help all of us have the opportunity to take advantage of a great way to promote our books.

There is more information at my website...link is in my signature...and click on the "For PA Authors" page. This is very inexpensive advertising and I now have white and black vehicle vinyl in stock. Feel free to e-mail me with questions, I look forward to working with you!

Use your car as a billboard...let your car do the work by exposing your website info to more people in one day than you can personally reach. Do you think that not even one person would respond to a website on your car? Then why does everyone else do it? Vinyl lettering is a great way to catch someone's eye and looks very professional...and can be an elegant alternative to stickers.

I cut it, you stick it...but you will be amazed at how easy it is! Check it out!

Jersey Chick
07-03-2007, 09:07 PM
Great - something else to look for other than road workers, orange cones, Men At Work signs, reflective saw horses, street signs, traffic lights...

that's it - I'm not leaving my house. Ever. :D

JimmyD1318
07-03-2007, 09:12 PM
The vinyl is ready to roll. Watch for the car-billboards in your town!

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=22008

Oh...my...God!:Jaw:

So...in other words...you're going to lower your writing to the level of pizza delivery!

JulieB
07-03-2007, 09:15 PM
I see that stuff on rear windows all over town. Mostly what seem to be home-based businesses. Nothing wrong with that, but I find them difficult to read because people tend to cram too many characters in a small space.

LAWN CARE 000-555-1212 works. BUYMYAMAZINGPRODUCTNOWPLEEZE.COM doesn't work so well. I wonder how often someone gets rear-ended by a driver trying to make out the long URL.

Jersey Chick
07-03-2007, 09:27 PM
My brother in law has magnetic signs advertising his business, but it looks like a logo you'd see on a company car. Not too wordy - just the business name and a phone no (I think). I don't know how much it helps, but it's a little different from advertising a book with all that web information, yadda yadda yadda.

CatSlave
07-03-2007, 09:33 PM
At least she's resourceful enough to have a project that could generate a little income, and a built-in audience for her marketing. Depending on book sales alone is...well, you know.

Mel
07-03-2007, 09:38 PM
According to the OP's site, the stickers can only be used once. If you peel one off you can't use it again. $20 to get them, so if you goof up just order again at the same price? Riiight. More money PA authors aren't paying for their books. Oops, forgot, ALL publishers make their authors do their own advertising. :crazy:

Jersey Chick
07-03-2007, 09:51 PM
Whoa - I thought they were magnetic. I guess OP has found her niche (or his niche) - never mind boosk - just sell promo items to her fellow authors, eh? Ingenious! (insert evil laugh here)

Mel
07-03-2007, 09:55 PM
No, she ::I think it's a she:: has step by step intructions on her site. A popsicle stick is including in the process.

Jersey Chick
07-03-2007, 10:26 PM
Actually, it's a popcicle stick...

but seriously, what if it damaged the clearcoat on your car? I didn't see any disclaimer about not being responsible for damage to the car itself. Hmmm...

Just so not worth it, IMHO.

Christine N.
07-03-2007, 10:32 PM
Yeah, no, I don't stick things on my car that don't come off. Magnets sure, but not sticky lettering.

And who's buying books based on something they see in a car window? Sorry, it just screams 'Cheesy!' to me.

James D. Macdonald
07-03-2007, 11:15 PM
Do you think that not even one person would respond to a website on your car?

Yeah. That's what I think.

As for the URL on the Pizza Guy's truck: Among other things, people want pizza.

allenparker
07-03-2007, 11:31 PM
Yeah. That's what I think.

As for the URL on the Pizza Guy's truck: Among other things, people want pizza.

Those that have seen my picture know that I rarely miss an opportunity to eat pizza. That said, the fact that I have never ordered a pizza because I saw a pizza sign on a car is probably a good indication that I have never responded to a sign to buy a book based on what I saw on a car.


Maybe I should try to find an agent by placing a sign on the side of my car and drive up and down NYC streets.

If I put one line from the book and they see it, will they consider it a partial submission?

Tina
07-03-2007, 11:36 PM
I would say the difference, frankly, is maturity.

The average PA author puts out some first draft, gets it published, and figured that they've now reached the peak of their writing skills. No workshops, no books, no trying to improve their craft. All it is from now on is just selling the book to friends and getting to give workshops at libraries to point more people towards PA.

The majority of those writers happy with PA have no aspirations to improve their writing or attempt to rise above the cesspool they're swimming in - they don't see writing as a process that continues far beyond hitting the "send" button dashing off the manuscript to PA. Instead they feel they're at the top of their craft and darned well gifted, so much so that they don't need to ever work at the craft.

A REAL writer knows that there is never perfection and you will be rejected many, many times before you make that first sale. And you will get bad reviews and good reviews. And that you will never stop working at learning the skill of writing - by taking workshops and visiting boards like this one and joining writing groups. (I don't count masturbatory groups made up primarily of PA writers stroking each others... backs to make sure they all know how gifted they are.)

Any PA author can become a proper author if they mature enough to get out of the PA cesspool and work on their skills and recognize that it's not an automatic win if you finish your novel. Many do, and go on to become legitimate authors perfecting their craft.

The majority, sorry to say, prefer to do the backstroke in the PA toilet bowl and tell each other about how gifted they are. More's the loss.

Very well said, Sheryl. And Happy (Belated) Canada Day.

Have a great Independence Day to those celebrating tomorrow.

Jersey Chick
07-03-2007, 11:38 PM
Buh-lieve me, when I want pizza, there's only one place to get it around here :).

I just can't imagine seeing a book ad on a car and thinking "That's what I want to read.... six weeks from now."

I ordered HP from Amazon because I wanted it the day it was released. I order from Amazon if it's a book I can't get in the stores here. Other than that, I don't want to wait. I want it now.

JCT
07-03-2007, 11:42 PM
She's serious?
oh
my
god :Wha:

BenPanced
07-03-2007, 11:52 PM
I've seen Mary Kay, Avon, Herbalife, Shaklee, Amway, you name the home-based business, window stickers. Those are different: they're recognized brand names. You see "Mary Kay" in the window, you think "Hey, think I'll look up Mary Kay online when I get home". That's easier than trying to write down buymybook.com or trying to remember the author's URL until you get home, and people are probably going to be more trusting of brand names they know that are advertised on somebody's car window (key word: "probably").

Komnena
07-04-2007, 12:02 AM
Atlanta Nights the Movie? God...I'd have to burn my eyeballs out!


You could just not watch the movie, you know.

DaveKuzminski
07-04-2007, 12:26 AM
I've seen Mary Kay, Avon, Herbalife, Shaklee, Amway, you name the home-based business, window stickers. Those are different: they're recognized brand names. You see "Mary Kay" in the window, you think "Hey, think I'll look up Mary Kay online when I get home". That's easier than trying to write down buymybook.com or trying to remember the author's URL until you get home, and people are probably going to be more trusting of brand names they know that are advertised on somebody's car window (key word: "probably").

Hmmm, maybe Roto-Rooter should use the PA logo on their trucks? Just imagine a tube beginning to suck up the PA logo and a caption stating, "Got PA in your cesspool? We'll get it out."

What better than that? After all, that's the reputation PA has so someone should benefit from it.

BenPanced
07-04-2007, 12:29 AM
Hmmm, maybe Roto-Rooter should use the PA logo on their trucks? Just imagine a tube beginning to suck up the PA logo and a caption stating, "Got PA in your cesspool? We'll get it out."

What better than that? After all, that's the reputation PA has so someone should benefit from it.
From sea to shining sea, indeed...

Tina
07-04-2007, 12:34 AM
Buh-lieve me, when I want pizza, there's only one place to get it around here :).

I just can't imagine seeing a book ad on a car and thinking "That's what I want to read.... six weeks from now."

I ordered HP from Amazon because I wanted it the day it was released. I order from Amazon if it's a book I can't get in the stores here. Other than that, I don't want to wait. I want it now.

They should go ahead and advertise the book on the car, just like the pizza delivery vehicles. Just make sure you deliver the book in thirty minutes or it's free.

ResearchGuy
07-04-2007, 12:38 AM
. . . And this is my first and last post on this forum. . . .
I certainly hope it is not your last post here!

--Ken

CatSlave
07-04-2007, 12:45 AM
They should go ahead and advertise the book on the car, just like the pizza delivery vehicles. Just make sure you deliver the book in thirty minutes or it's free.
Oh ho, a new marketing ploy: make an agreement with the pizza guys to deliver your bookmark along with their pizza.
Pay them with free books.

BarbJ
07-04-2007, 12:49 AM
"They should go ahead and advertise the book on the car, just like the pizza delivery vehicles. Just make sure you deliver the book in thirty minutes or it's free."
:roll:

ETA: Hey, I just became a Super Member! I'm an official AWer!

spike
07-04-2007, 01:02 AM
I've seen Mary Kay, Avon, Herbalife, Shaklee, Amway, you name the home-based business, window stickers. Those are different: they're recognized brand names. You see "Mary Kay" in the window, you think "Hey, think I'll look up Mary Kay online when I get home". That's easier than trying to write down buymybook.com or trying to remember the author's URL until you get home, and people are probably going to be more trusting of brand names they know that are advertised on somebody's car window (key word: "probably").

Those stickers attract people who not only recognize the brand, but also have experienced it. You think, "I really liked that Mary Kay powder. I think I'll look them up when I get home and see about getting more."

Same with Tupperware, Discovery Toys, and Princess house. But those items are not introduced to new customers that way.

It's just not going to work for book.

Afinerosesheis
07-04-2007, 01:07 AM
I certainly hope it is not your last post here!

--Ken

I hope you won't leave either. There is a lot to learn here. :)

~~~Mel

Jersey Chick
07-04-2007, 01:16 AM
My mom used to be a Mary Kay lady - but she didn't have stickers on her car. Maybe that's why she used to be one?

Hey - buy advertising space on the top of the pizza box, maybe? Or... or inside the lid? Oh, wait! On that sheet of paper under the pizza!

oh, the possibilities are endless ;)

JimmyD1318
07-04-2007, 01:36 AM
You could just not watch the movie, you know.

It would be like not trying to watch a train wreak. Next to impossible.:tongue

James D. Macdonald
07-04-2007, 01:39 AM
I'm sure that if you bought the boxes and paid for the printing your local pizza joint would let you advertise your book on the box.

Mario's Pizza.
Sponsored by Atlanta Nights

JimmyD1318
07-04-2007, 01:42 AM
I'm sure that if you bought the boxes and paid for the printing your local pizza joint would let you advertise your book on the box.

Mario's Pizza.

Sponsored by Atlanta Nights



What have I created!:ROFL:

LloydBrown
07-04-2007, 02:18 AM
I'm sure that if you bought the boxes and paid for the printing your local pizza joint would let you advertise your book on the box.

Speaking as a former Domino's manager, the chains aren't allowed to, but a mom & pop certainly could.

Gigi Sahi
07-04-2007, 02:46 AM
Tina wrote:

They should go ahead and advertise the book on the car, just like the pizza delivery vehicles.

Actually, there's this guy who calls himself Relentless Aaron, a best-selling Urban Fiction author, who does exactly that. He has his car tricked out with all of his book covers. He's quite a character!

CatSlave
07-04-2007, 02:49 AM
Tina wrote:

They should go ahead and advertise the book on the car, just like the pizza delivery vehicles.

Actually, there's this guy who calls himself Relentless Aaron, a best-selling Urban Fiction author, who does exactly that. He has his car tricked out with all of his book covers. He's quite a character!
I wonder if he can take a tax deduction for his car as an advertising expense?

JimmyD1318
07-04-2007, 02:50 AM
Tina wrote:

They should go ahead and advertise the book on the car, just like the pizza delivery vehicles.

Actually, there's this guy who calls himself Relentless Aaron, a best-selling Urban Fiction author, who does exactly that. He has his car tricked out with all of his book covers. He's quite a character!

:Wha: Whaa....? Okay it's time to get in the shower and relaxe after that!:e2shower:

ResearchGuy
07-04-2007, 03:41 AM
I wonder if he can take a tax deduction for his car as an advertising expense?
Probably so, actually, IMO, at least for mileage and for the costs of the advertising signs, under some conditions (filing Schedule C, etc., etc., etc.). A lot of catches go with that, of course, and he'd better be prepared, if audited, to demonstrate the facts and legitimacy of the expense AS a business expense.

--Ken (not a tax guy)

Jersey Chick
07-04-2007, 04:59 AM
I think you could take the cost of the vinyl letters, but the car itself is a whole nother ball game (as in writing off car payments or insurance.) I think to take the car, you'd have to prove you drove it only for business purposes. Good luck with that if it's just a Ford Taurus with some stickers on it.

But I'd have to ask mom or bro - they're accountants.

I am not a tax chick.

Afinerosesheis
07-04-2007, 05:58 AM
I am a tax chick and you do some formula on the sched C to see what percent you use the vehicle for your "business", then you take the standard mileage rate. It is a pretty good deduction.

Jersey Chick
07-04-2007, 06:11 AM
I stand corrected. :D

This is why I'm a writer and not a tax chick ;) If you misspell something, the IRS doesn't haunt you forever - unless, of course, it's on your tax return.

Afinerosesheis
07-04-2007, 07:03 AM
The IRS isn't as bad as you think...really. They will work with you as long as you are willing to work with them.

James D. Macdonald
07-04-2007, 07:41 AM
From that thread about Why Publishing With PA Makes Sense (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21966):

PublishAmerica makes your book available in all the major online ordering services. Any bookstore can order your books if they choose. However, some independant bookstores will not order or carry PA books unless they see a large potential for sale. In any case, these days 75% of all books in America are sold online. Other publishers will also have your books available online. Some bookstores may be willing to order your book if the publisher is a big name. However, unless the publisher and/or bookstore believe your book will be a huge success, you likely wont have shelf space.

The rest of that particular post is astounding as well, but I'm just going to talk about this one paragraph.

Being listed at all the places that list everything with an ISBN is no real achievement. Nor will it put a lot of readers next to your book: the only way to find your book is to search for it, the only ones who will search for it are those who have heard of it, and the only ones who will have heard of it are your close personal friends.

Was that what you wanted from publication?

It isn't just some independent bookstores that won't shelve your book. No bookstore will shelve your book, chain or independent, unless you go there in person to beg. And not always then!

"... 75% of all books in America are sold online" is a charming idea, but utterly false. A mixture of a misleading factoid (that 75% of all books aren't sold in bookstores -- no, many books are sold in bus stations, others are sold directly to school systems, many others are sold through book clubs....) with wishful thinking. A small percentage of commercial books are sold on-line. Most of those are the same titles that are shelved in bookstores. Only a small fraction of that small fraction are sales from among the other ISBNs that make up "all books" and include PA books. PA books are duking it out for less than half of one percent of commercial book sales, and they're competing with more than four million titles for those few sales.

If your book is with a normal commercial publisher it will probably have shelf space in real bookstores, and you, the author, won't be the one who had to make it happen. That's the fact, and if you were to walk into any bookstore and just look around you'll see that it's true.

e.dashwood
07-04-2007, 07:55 AM
The IRS isn't as bad as you think...really. They will work with you as long as you are willing to work with them.

Apologies for this partly OT post. This is true. The only time I was audited, it was because I was starting a business and incurring big expenses relative to my income, but when the agent added it all up, and saw it was legit, she also noticed I had miscalculated my return, and actually wound up cutting me a check for $125. I love telling how I made money on my audit. Also, when I have a tax question I find you get the most knowledgeable answers at the IRS--not the answers that will tell you tricky ways not to pay taxes--but the answers that are accurate in terms of the laws and the regs.

On topic, and I think this may have been mentioned before:

I have tried various ad methods on the internet, but most people do not go to web sites, classified sections or newsgroups to read your ads. Think for yourself! When was the last time you went to read advertisements. Perhaps, never! Mailing directly to a recipient's mailbox is the only way to make people read your offer.

Get FREE details on "Selecting the Best eMail Names, Fax Numbers & Postal Addresses.. .

1. Here's someone advising a spam campaign to sell your PA book.

2. MORE IMPORTANT, I clicked the link provided to see the FREE how to spam details and I got a warning that the site will try to put virus/malware on my computer. So beware the spammer's link.

Jersey Chick
07-04-2007, 08:19 AM
That wasn't a swipe at the IRS, but I have heard that the infamous list does exist and you don't want to be on it.

I had a little chuckle at the notion of 75% of books being sold online. I don't think she paid real close attention to the spouter when he spouted the original.

James D. Macdonald
07-04-2007, 08:41 AM
I have tried various ad methods on the internet.... is a direct cut'n'paste off the how-to-spam website. And what they're doing over there is offering mailing lists at $60 per 1,000 names.

Let's see ... typical PA book goes for $19.95. Author gets 8% of net, or about $0.95. To make back the investment in addresses to be spammed, the author will have to sell 62 additional books per thousand names.

Possible? Sure. Likely? Not at all. Far more likely: the author's internet account suspended or canceled for spamming. Most of the folks who get those spams will delete them unread. Most of the rest will be pissed off.

Mel
07-04-2007, 09:35 AM
1. Here's someone advising a spam campaign to sell your PA book.

2. MORE IMPORTANT, I clicked the link provided to see the FREE how to spam details and I got a warning that the site will try to put virus/malware on my computer. So beware the spammer's link.

I read that and something told me I really didn't want to click that link. I like it when I listen to myself.

James D. Macdonald
07-04-2007, 09:39 AM
Incidentally, the author who's suggesting spamming only recently got his dollar. He's all starry-eyed.

The earlier poster, from the Why Publishing With PA Makes Sense thread, is still a honeymooner too -- her book just came out in January, so her first reality check will arrive in September. We'll see what she has to say then.

Komnena
07-04-2007, 09:43 AM
Hey - buy advertising space on the top of the pizza box, maybe? Or... or inside the lid? Oh, wait! On that sheet of paper under the pizza!

oh, the possibilities are endless ;)


Why not have advertising on the pizza itself? You and the restaurant could swap advertising. You'd set your novel locally and your characters would always eat out at the pizza joint. Then the restaurant would have your book title spelled out by the toppings.



It's 1:15 a.m. here. I think, on rereading this, it is definitely bedtime. Good night JohnBoy

Mel
07-04-2007, 09:47 AM
Shhh! You guys are going to give them a bunch of new ideas over there.

Queen of Swords
07-04-2007, 10:33 AM
Possible? Sure. Likely? Not at all. Far more likely: the author's internet account suspended or canceled for spamming. Most of the folks who get those spams will delete them unread. Most of the rest will be pissed off.

Ain't that the truth. (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1190095&postcount=6143) But it's something that some people may need to learn by experience.

JCT
07-04-2007, 07:09 PM
I have gotten emails from authors announcing their new and upcomming books but I signed up for such announcements because they are authors whose works I've read before and enjoyed.

None of this applies to a typical PA author.

Mel
07-04-2007, 07:20 PM
Okaaay. How is this going to make people want to buy this book? I'm confused. Or is it just me that sees a black screen with nothing but sound? Oh, wait! There was that one flash of white. And, how does this tell the reader what the book is about, or better yet, what the writing is like? :e2thud:

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=22028

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-02SyWx28V0

e.dashwood
07-04-2007, 07:25 PM
It's good to hear that you are happy with them. I have heard some opposing views that I have chosen to ignore until given reason not to. I have faith in PA and hope that everything turns out well.

Huh?

Faith based publishing?

How could you have reason not to ignore them, if you are ignoring them?

brianm
07-04-2007, 07:33 PM
Okaaay. How is this going to make people want to buy this book? I'm confused. Or is it just me that sees a black screen with nothing but sound? Oh, wait! There was that one flash of white. And, how does this tell the reader what the book is about, or better yet, what the writing is like? :e2thud:

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=22028

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-02SyWx28V0



To answer your question... :Shrug:

Maybe the book is full of blank pages?

James D. Macdonald
07-04-2007, 07:33 PM
Faustus: I think hell's a fable.

Mephistophilis: Aye, think so still, till experience change thy mind. ...

JimmyD1318
07-04-2007, 07:37 PM
Ain't that the truth. (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1190095&postcount=6143) But it's something that some people may need to learn by experience.

Ohhh yeah....bstevens. I wonder how she's doing? Haven't heard from her in a long while now.

ResearchGuy
07-04-2007, 07:58 PM
. . . Being listed at all the places that list everything with an ISBN is no real achievement. . . .
It has roughly the cachet of being listed in the telephone directory. You have to have a phone to be listed in the directory. You have to have an ISBN to be listed with booksellers. Makes no difference whether no one calls or no one buys. Once you have met the threshold of acceptance . . .

--Ken

Jersey Chick
07-04-2007, 08:06 PM
Okaaay. How is this going to make people want to buy this book? I'm confused. Or is it just me that sees a black screen with nothing but sound? Oh, wait! There was that one flash of white. And, how does this tell the reader what the book is about, or better yet, what the writing is like? :e2thud:


It's written on black in black - the whole goal is to be as challenging as possible so that, when you finish, you have that sense of accomplishment. Yanno, like you've actually achieved something.

aside from a blinding headache, that is! :D

Mel
07-04-2007, 08:15 PM
To answer your question... :Shrug:

Maybe the book is full of blank pages?

It's written on black in black - the whole goal is to be as challenging as possible so that, when you finish, you have that sense of accomplishment. Yanno, like you've actually achieved something.

aside from a blinding headache, that is! :D

That clears it all up. :roll:

Tina
07-04-2007, 10:17 PM
It has roughly the cachet of being listed in the telephone directory. You have to have a phone to be listed in the directory. You have to have an ISBN to be listed with booksellers. Makes no difference whether no one calls or no one buys. Once you have met the threshold of acceptance . . .

--Ken

This is the best analogy yet, I think. A phone book with four million entries. And I thought my local yellow pages was heavy...

When some PAMB'ers get so excited about being listed on amazon, I can't help but to think of the expression "that and a token will get you on the subway".

CatSlave
07-04-2007, 10:23 PM
To answer your question... :Shrug:

Maybe the book is full of blank pages?
Well, that was fun...

The Porn Guy's video should be interesting.

Mel
07-04-2007, 10:33 PM
The Porn Guy's video should be interesting.

Blank screen with lots of sounds? Definitely an imagination teaser. :D

Jersey Chick
07-04-2007, 11:35 PM
And cheesy music - you can't not have cheesy music -

ba bada ba ba baba! (I think) :D

Gravity
07-04-2007, 11:51 PM
No, the 70's Porn Guitar! walk-a-chicken walk-a-chicken wahhhh... wahhhh...

JimmyD1318
07-05-2007, 12:11 AM
No, the 70's Porn Guitar! walk-a-chicken walk-a-chicken wahhhh... wahhhh...

:flag: You guys are killing me!

Jersey Chick
07-05-2007, 12:36 AM
That's it - Bow-chicka-bow-wow

I am so not musical - do you think anyone will notice?

CatSlave
07-05-2007, 12:48 AM
That's it - Bow-chicka-bow-wow

I am so not musical - do you think anyone will notice?
Don't forget disco lights. He needs a disco ball.
Maybe some Barry White music to set the mood.

Jersey Chick
07-05-2007, 01:51 AM
Disco lights - yes -

and more cowbell

it's gotta have more cowbell!

CatSlave
07-05-2007, 02:05 AM
Disco lights - yes -

and more cowbell

it's gotta have more cowbell!
It's a miracle any of us managed to procreate under those circumstances. :)

endless rewrite
07-05-2007, 02:19 AM
Disco lights and cowbells! I just had a flashback to that dreadful night on my holiday to Austria. Imagine if you will a lonely hotel up a mountain, and an advertised evening of 'traditional entertainment'. Lured by the thought of young men slapping their thighs I ended up being embroiled in a 'fertility rite' which if memory and therapy serve me right resulted in being grappled from behind, my head was then firmly trapped between a pair of sweaty lederhosen clad thighs (those things can't be machine washed) while I was force fed a strange eggy mixture and had my forehead marked with coal. He then skipped off waving a wooden spoon in the air, pausing only to chop some wood and light a small fire in the middle of the bar. It was all rather bewildering.

PA will not edit your book.

Thanks to all that have helped with reviewing my book and making suggestions. Yes, I have used the suggestions Richard and I am heading into editting, I chose option 3 and hope it goes smoothly. It should go quicher will the help that Richard gave to me. Many thanks

CatSlave
07-05-2007, 02:30 AM
Disco lights and cowbells! I just had a flashback to that dreadful night on my holiday to Austria. Imagine if you will a lonely hotel up a mountain, and an advertised evening of 'traditional entertainment'. Lured by the thought of young men slapping their thighs I ended up being embroiled in a 'fertility rite' which if memory and therapy serve me right resulted in being grappled from behind, my head was then firmly trapped between a pair of sweaty lederhosen clad thighs (those things can't be machine washed) while I was force fed a strange eggy mixture and had my forehead marked with coal. He then skipped off waving a wooden spoon in the air, pausing only to chop some wood and light a small fire in the middle of the bar. It was all rather bewildering.
I don't know which is worse, your experience in Austria or the post you posted. :scared:

JCT
07-05-2007, 02:47 AM
I don't know which is worse, your experience in Austria or the post you posted. :scared:

Both :)

Jersey Chick
07-05-2007, 03:15 AM
Um... I have a question...

What's quicher?

Is it like quiche, only a lot more so?

Bo Sullivan
07-05-2007, 03:17 AM
Um... I have a question...

What's quicher?

Is it like quiche, only a lot more so?

quicher lorainner

Jersey Chick
07-05-2007, 03:21 AM
Hey - I think I know her! :D

CatSlave
07-05-2007, 03:30 AM
Yes, folks, it's a slow day at the PAMB thread.
We're just treading water here, waiting for something exciting to happen.

*still wondering how endless rewrite explained the leather burns on her cheeks*

Bo Sullivan
07-05-2007, 03:33 AM
I've got my red armbands on so I don't go under ...:rant:

Jersey Chick
07-05-2007, 05:49 AM
Swimmies! Mine are pink - with seahorses on them...

man, I wish something would happen over there. **sighs**

Mel
07-05-2007, 06:07 AM
The only thing I've found is that those at PA are saying how nice it is, other than a couple recommend the book cover should be on it. So, does that mean that PA authors can see something we can't? Is there a plot against AW? Inquiring minds want to know.

Mel
07-05-2007, 06:36 AM
This from yesterday.

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=22017
So, today I got a phone call from my local Barnes and Noble. Returning my call about a month and half ago about a book signing. And they called to setup the time and date of a book. So, on the 25th of August I am going to have my first book signing. I am excited, does anyone have any advice for me?

Does Barnes&Noble know this is a PA book? If not, will they still allow him to do the book signing? Guess we won't know until the time comes. Hate to see the letdown he's in for if they do cancel it.

emsuniverse
07-05-2007, 06:38 AM
I betcha it'll get cancelled.

JCT
07-05-2007, 06:50 AM
I betcha it'll get cancelled.

Or bring your own books and bring home the unsold ones.

Mel
07-05-2007, 07:26 AM
I betcha it'll get cancelled.

We've seen it happen before when a book store finds out who the publisher is, and I think there was one just recently that happened to.

Jersey Chick
07-05-2007, 07:43 AM
Boy - I hate to see a dream smushed.

ResearchGuy
07-05-2007, 10:04 AM
This from yesterday. . .
Does Barnes&Noble know this is a PA book? If not, will they still allow him to do the book signing? Guess we won't know until the time comes. Hate to see the letdown he's in for if they do cancel it.
He said, "local Barnes and Noble." There might well be circumstances that would lead a local store manager to schedule a book signing for a local author, even one with a PA book. I know it has happened in this area for an author of an apparently well-received YA fantasy novel, who I understand drew a pretty nice crowd (that was about two years ago, if I recall right). I realize that is hard for some here to get their heads around, but it can happen. I should follow up with the author and see how things are going for him. Apparently he has a trilogy out with PA. But . . . a forthcoming fourth book (not part of the same series) is from a publisher I am not familiar with. Those who are curious can look at http://www.kennethramirez.biz/books.html and follow the links.

--Ken

James D. Macdonald
07-05-2007, 10:34 AM
There are hundreds of B&N stores. Arranging a signing in one of them (and, again, bet it's within 25 miles of the author's house) does nothing at all toward getting the book stocked in any of the others.

We've been saying that any author with a half-way presentable book, even one he printed in his basement, can get it into a local bookstore or two. Where he can look forward to low-two-digit sales.

It's the distribution -- the national stocking -- that's lacking.

Komnena
07-05-2007, 03:41 PM
The publisher is Twilight Times Books. They seem to publish both e-books and paper books, though mostly e books. The trade paper I saw had a list price of $18.95. They claim to be rated among top twenty web publishers by Preditors and Editors.

Komnena
07-05-2007, 03:55 PM
In Author's Lounge, thread title I Made a Huge Mistake, it looks like another author's honeymoon is ending.

xhouseboy
07-05-2007, 05:25 PM
In Author's Lounge, thread title I Made a Huge Mistake, it looks like another author's honeymoon is ending.

Pipe smoker's already ridden to the rescue (of PA).

I'm thinking of adopting an option system for my son's homework.

It would save me a lot of hassle, and I'm confident he would plump for option 1 every time. Option 1 being I do sod all, don't even check it or make the slightest attempt at helping him correct any mistakes he might have made.

Not so sure his teachers would agree.

brianm
07-05-2007, 05:36 PM
Here's the thread Komnena refers to.

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=22047

Okay, my book is coming out and I got my free copies. I chose option One because I felt that i have been looking at this story for four years now and it was well edited. I was wrong. There are grammar errors on nearly every page and things that I somehow overlooked that are glaringly obvious in the final stage. IS THERE ANY WAY I CAN STOP THIS BOOK FROM BEING RELEASED? IS THERE ANYTHING AT ALL I CAN DO TO FIX THIS? All you experienced authors I NEED YOUR HELP.

Response number #1

I know how you feel. I used option 3 on my first book and was disappointed by the results. But then I came to terms with the poor editing I'd done and decided to learn from it. On book #2 I used an outside editor and it came out pretty good. And I still learned more from that experience. Now book #3 is due out in a week and although I edited it myself, I think it will be just fine. Oh, there will be some errors in it, but not so much that I'll worry over it.

The OP chose PA's option #1, which is a no edit option. This guy chose option #3, which is suppose to mean PA fully edits the ms. As you can see, option #1 and option #3 produce the same results because PA's option #3 entails running the ms through spell check and grammar check. Witch results in a man you script full of err ors.

Response #2

Even though it's your fault, contact Author Support as suggested and perhaps they will offer help. Remember, though, that the fault is yours so don't come on strong as if it lies with PA.

This is correct. PA offers option #1 because it knows their authors are chomping at the bit to see their ms in print and to hold it in their hands. They put a little blurb in the book that says the book has been printed with no changes at the author's request. However, what legitimate publisher would produce a product, that has their name on it, that is full of errors? What type of publisher does that? A vanity press.

e.dashwood
07-05-2007, 05:41 PM
I know how you feel. I used option 3 on my first book and was disappointed by the results. But then I came to terms with the poor editing I'd done and decided to learn from it.

The published book as a first, rough draft.

JCT
07-05-2007, 05:55 PM
Even though it's your fault

Nice!

James D. Macdonald
07-05-2007, 06:09 PM
My advice:

"Learn from this mistake. Put this book behind you. Don't buy any copies. Don't promote it. No one will ever see it or any of its errors. Write a new, different, better book and sell it to a publisher that only accepts well-written books and edits those that they accept."

JCT
07-05-2007, 06:12 PM
My advice:

"Learn from this mistake. Put this book behind you. Don't buy any copies. Don't promote it. No one will ever see it or any of its errors. Write a new, different, better book and sell it to a publisher that only accepts well-written books and edits those that they accept."

That's what I did after publishing my first novel via POD publisher. Actually, I'm proud of that book. I'm going to rewrite it and submit somewhere else one of these days.

James D. Macdonald
07-05-2007, 06:19 PM
Remember, though, that the fault is yours so don't come on strong as if it lies with PA.

Of course the fault lies with PA! They're the ones that accepted a book "with grammar errors on nearly every page." They're the ones who allowed the author to use the "no edit" option, even though InfoClown claims:

Of course we go through their final drafts anyhow, making sure that we print no nonsense. As we format their manuscript, we ensure that nothing unreasonable goes through, and that, if we spot some "funny" language, it is language that is there intentionally. And if we decide that the author is inclined to sacrifice quality for speed, because we notice problems with the text, we tell them that their request is denied. No "fast track" is allowed in those cases, and their books goes through the full editing process.

Jersey Chick
07-05-2007, 06:26 PM
Uh-huh. Yeah. Right.

I ahve some lovely swamp land on Florida if anyone's interested. Great place to write.

Smush - there goes another one.

BarbJ
07-06-2007, 01:24 AM
"I just had a flashback to that dreadful night on my holiday to Austria. Imagine if you will a lonely hotel up a mountain, and an advertised evening of 'traditional entertainment'. Lured by the thought of young men slapping their thighs I ended up being embroiled in a 'fertility rite' which if memory and therapy serve me right resulted in being grappled from behind, my head was then firmly trapped between a pair of sweaty lederhosen clad thighs (those things can't be machine washed) while I was force fed a strange eggy mixture and had my forehead marked with coal. He then skipped off waving a wooden spoon in the air, pausing only to chop some wood and light a small fire in the middle of the bar. It was all rather bewildering."

Enquiring minds want to know: Did you get pregnant?
:e2dance:

(Sounds like a shock-the-tourist rite to me.)

Komnena
07-06-2007, 01:29 AM
Of course the fault lies with PA! They're the ones that accepted a book "with grammar errors on nearly every page." They're the ones who allowed the author to use the "no edit" option, :

No disrespect intended, Mr. Macdonald, but how can you be sure the errors were there when the book was accepted and that the PA spellcheck didn't put them there after the book left the author's hands? I think it's just a bit strange myself that the author didn't notice these in four years yet suddenly they appear after said author loses control of the book.

Bo Sullivan
07-06-2007, 02:03 AM
No disrespect intended, Mr. Macdonald, but how can you be sure the errors were there when the book was accepted and that the PA spellcheck didn't put them there after the book left the author's hands? I think it's just a bit strange myself that the author didn't notice these in four years yet suddenly they appear after said author loses control of the book.

The author in question should check their original manuscript to see if the errors were present when the manuscript was submitted.

Arkie
07-06-2007, 02:59 AM
The very fact that PA's editing problems are discussed here and on the PA boards constantly is proof enough that they have no editing system.

The option business is nothing but eye candy for the prospective author and means nothing.

I expect there is a primary screening but only to look for language derogatory to the company, such as Atlanta Nights, or one with character names matching the PA officers.

Even if they run a grammar and spell checker, then it is the most basic, at least based on my experience. In my case, not only did they confuse the spelling, particularly those words that sound alike, i.e., to, too, two, but in setting the book up for production, they split paragraphs, not only in the middle of the paragraph, but in the middle of the sentence, and left one odd word in the margin and generally produced a book that looked like a Junior High newspaper, but not as well edited. And no, it was not the corrected copy of the ms I sent back to them. I still have my corrected copy on file.

I don't believe any printer has the right to refer to themselves as a traditional publisher without legitimate quality control when it comes to editing (spell checking, grammar,) and fact checking and legal checking, etc.

And when a few days ago the PA moderator asked one of the PA posters, who had complained about a poorly edited book, did he know what it cost to hire someone to edit exposed PA for what it is and has always been: a printer that from the company level is completely satisfied with producing an inferior product--not for the public--but for author purchase, and therein lies the shame of it.

Jersey Chick
07-06-2007, 03:30 AM
Is it possible that some of the punctuation problems are a result of a file switch - going from doc or rtf into pdf? I ask because I had the weirdest problem with my last book. The manuscript that I turned in was fine, but when I received my pdf galley, almost all of my commas and periods were gone. Poof. I pulled up my copy and they were all there (which was a relief, as I wondered for a moment if I really way losing my mind.) It drove me crazy, trying to edit and make sure they were all there - I mean like cross-eyed crazy.

Not making excuses, because I do think PA does nothing more than a spell-check (such as it is), but just wondering.

Bo Sullivan
07-06-2007, 03:40 AM
No disrespect intended, Mr. Macdonald, but how can you be sure the errors were there when the book was accepted and that the PA spellcheck didn't put them there after the book left the author's hands? I think it's just a bit strange myself that the author didn't notice these in four years yet suddenly they appear after said author loses control of the book.

Yes, like in my book: English spellings turned into American spellings; New chapters and headings being incorporated on the previous chapter. :Soapbox:

Arkie
07-06-2007, 03:55 AM
I have no idea what the process is or was, for taking a Word File (RTF) and putting into book form. Whatever the process, PA never mastered it under their old system. Since they now have their own printer, it seems at least they could now put out a fairly reputable product, since they have more control, but based on the postings on their board, evidently not.

brianm
07-06-2007, 04:01 AM
A very irritated author responds. (Go get them, Barbara! Good luck)

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21846

Dear PA Authors:

I feel I must respond to this thread as follows and I hope that Infocenter will not find it necessary to delete my post as I feel it contains pertinent information.

My book is about Sir Walter Raleigh, an English Knight at the Court of Queen Elizabeth I of England (1552-1618).

I requested in particular that PA did not to change English spellings of words in my book into American spellings of words. Particular spellings of words were changed. Such as "bejewelled" and "jewelled" (English spellings) which appear in the published book, but they also appear as "bejeweled and jeweled" - I never, ever spell with American spellings as I am English, and American spellings are alien to me. However, American spellings appear in my book. Is this because PA ran a spellcheck on my book?

Two of my chapters appear on the previous chapter when they should begin on a new page. There is a formatting issue.

The above is just a sample of what I mean by errors in the book.

I am making a list of errors and I will send them to PA who have kindly agreed to look at them to see if they agree that the marketability of my book is affected.

I would add that I find it offensive that Infocenter are finding it necessary to display my private e-mail messages to them on this Board so that I am made to look like a liar. I do take offence at that and I believe it harms me as an author.

If this thread goes out on the Web for all to read I will be very offended.

:popcorn:

brianm
07-06-2007, 04:08 AM
She’s so mad, she’s posted a second one.

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21846

I feel I must respond to this thread and I hope Infocenter will not find it necessary to delete my post, as they have done in this thread previously.

There were no options 1,2 and 3 offered to me in 2003. Those options did not exist at the time I signed my contract with PA.

The email that infocenter posted in this thread is from 2005. My book was published in January 2004 and I have been trying, without success, to have the errors and missing pages from my book corrected since early 2004.

I requested in particular that PA not change English spellings of words in my book, yet those changes were made and have not been corrected. I never, ever spell with American spellings as I am English, and American spellings are alien to me. However, American spellings appear in my book.

In addition to numerous errors, the book is missing pages. Again, I have had no success in getting PA to add back the missing pages or to fix the errors since 2004.

Also, new chapters appear on the last page of the previous chapters on two occasions.

The responses from PA have been confusing at best. Although, I have stressed the errors and missing pages affect my being able to sell the book, they continue to stress they will not make the changes unless they feel the marketability of my book has been affected.

Having had no success in private with PA, I felt I had no other choice but to take my concerns to this board.

I would add that I find it offensive that Infocenter has displayed private e-mail messages to me on this board, and that they have called me a liar in public. They deleted my second response in this thread that clearly showed the timeline of emails between PA and me. By doing so, they have made it appear I have done nothing in private in the past to make my book marketable. My reputation as an author has been harmed in public. My character as an individual has been harmed in public. This I will not tolerate.

Although, PA and I are continuing to communicate in private to resolve this matter, I felt I must defend myself on this board in light of the deletion of my second response to this thread and because PA called me a liar.

This requires two bags... :popcorn: :popcorn:

Afinerosesheis
07-06-2007, 04:12 AM
Poor thing. It makes me sick to see posts such as this. Yet, I am thankful I came out of that atmosphere halfway unscathed.

JCT
07-06-2007, 04:22 AM
If this thread goes out on the Web for all to read I will be very offended.

Well, can't unring that bell. Plus you posted it in a public forum.

JCT
07-06-2007, 04:24 AM
although, PA and I are continuing to communicate in private to resolve this matter, I felt I must defend myself on this board in light of the deletion of my second response to this thread and because PA called me a liar.

You shall soon be banned or at the best, Moe-randa will lay a verbal smackdown on you.

Bo Sullivan
07-06-2007, 04:31 AM
Well, can't unring that bell. Plus you posted it in a public forum.

Writers will be writers and we will write. Sometimes the subjects we write about offend people. When no responses are forthcoming from the recipient, or if the responses are ambiguous and open to interpretation by the reader, then we must pursue our cause in public due to exasperation.

I am expecting to be banned forthwith.

Worse things happen at sea.

JCT
07-06-2007, 04:40 AM
Writers will be writers and we will write. Sometimes the subjects we write about offend people. When no responses are forthcoming from the recipient, or if the responses are ambiguous and open to interpretation by the reader, then we must pursue our cause in public due to exasperation.

I am expecting to be banned forthwith.

Worse things happen at sea.

Ya. Can't have any restless natives.

Mel
07-06-2007, 04:44 AM
I applaud you for standing up for what you believe and what's right. :Clap: It's too bad some of the others over there won't, especially those who know better.

Bo Sullivan
07-06-2007, 04:51 AM
I expect to get a good bashing on that board when they find it there. Quiet so far ... :tongue

CatSlave
07-06-2007, 05:21 AM
Good for you.
I hope your posts will open some eyes. :)

Jersey Chick
07-06-2007, 05:47 AM
Well, you know, it is all your fault, right? ;)

That's what happens when you stir up trouble :D

BenPanced
07-06-2007, 07:04 AM
*snf snf*

Yup. I smell a tone letter on the horizon.

James D. Macdonald
07-06-2007, 11:08 AM
If he doesn't get his cover on at Amazon by the 5th http://www.amazon.com/How-Break-into-Porn-Industry/dp/1424172063/ref=sr_1_6/102-5305363-4254551?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1183394628&sr=1-6 I'm going to have to make that lollipop tree and donate it to the "Bargains Board" for auction. I hate crafty little projects. Although, my lollipop tree will be twice the PAMB size and will contain much more than just lollipops.

The fifth of July has come and gone, but PA still doesn't have the cover posted at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/1424172063/ref=nosim/madhousemanor/).

Marie Pacha
07-06-2007, 01:17 PM
"I expect to get a good bashing on that board when they find it there. Quiet so far ... "

Barbara don't be surprised if they deny calling you a liar.

Did you save copies of your early emails with PA; about the formatting and spelling errors?

Marie

Komnena
07-06-2007, 03:19 PM
The Book Signings thread is interesting this morning.

WWWWolf
07-06-2007, 04:08 PM
Is it possible that some of the punctuation problems are a result of a file switch - going from doc or rtf into pdf? I ask because I had the weirdest problem with my last book. The manuscript that I turned in was fine, but when I received my pdf galley, almost all of my commas and periods were gone. Poof. I pulled up my copy and they were all there (which was a relief, as I wondered for a moment if I really way losing my mind.) It drove me crazy, trying to edit and make sure they were all there - I mean like cross-eyed crazy.

It's entirely possible (unlikely in this day and age, but still possible). Computers tend to tell what you have, not what you intended. =) It's the responsibility of the person who converts/typesets/etc the file to see that the results actually make some sense afterward. (The "I only looked at the file after I uploaded it, sorry" syndrome...) Also, software at hand might interpret things a bit funnily. Maybe your PDF reader has no idea what this "punctuation" thing is, but the printer actually had a clue and complete fonts. Welcome to the distant year of 2007, where technology still doesn't work =)

brianm
07-06-2007, 04:30 PM
The fifth of July has come and gone, but PA still doesn't have the cover posted at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/1424172063/ref=nosim/madhousemanor/).

Thank you for remembering my bet, Jim, and in such poetic form. I have sent a pm to OFG letting her know I will be *cough* crafting and donating a large lollipop tree for auction on the "Bargains Board."

:rant:

JulieB
07-06-2007, 05:13 PM
It's entirely possible (unlikely in this day and age, but still possible). Computers tend to tell what you have, not what you intended. =) It's the responsibility of the person who converts/typesets/etc the file to see that the results actually make some sense afterward. (The "I only looked at the file after I uploaded it, sorry" syndrome...) Also, software at hand might interpret things a bit funnily. Maybe your PDF reader has no idea what this "punctuation" thing is, but the printer actually had a clue and complete fonts. Welcome to the distant year of 2007, where technology still doesn't work =)

I still run into problems going from Mac to PC and vice-versa depending on the software used to create the original file. But yes, it *is* the responsibility of whoever converts the file to ensure that the conversion worked properly.

brianm
07-06-2007, 05:32 PM
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=22067

I contacted Barnes and Noble about having a book signing for my newest book, XXXXX. They told me they didn't stock PublishAmerica books, they are not returnable, they said they had dealt with PA books before and they could not return them. And they do not carry POD books.
To say the least I was heart broken. Basically I was the laughing stock of Barnes and Noble that day.
I'm not sure how I feel right now. I must say, sometimes I have doubts. My books are not selling. My royality check was less than $15.00 and I wanted to cry.
can someone please give me some advice on what to do? I feel as if my hard work is going down the toilet.

Apparently, she didn’t hear the toilet flush when she signed her PA contract. She posts again…

Thanks, I don't know what to do. I don't know how many books I've sold, there is no way to track them. I can't afford to order 50 of my books, even if they are half price. I sometimes think the only people buying books are family... not that that's a bad thing, but I really wanted to sell books to people who want to read it because it's a good book, not because they feel obligated because they are related to me.
I guess I'm just a bit bitter right now.

JCT
07-06-2007, 05:39 PM
I just read that...it was so sad! It broke my heart. Then came the misinformation:

"They don't stock new authors..."
"The manager is wrong. PA books are returnable..."
"B+N stocks PA books. Many of us have books on the shelf at B+N..."

Sparhawk
07-06-2007, 05:46 PM
Wow, the above quotes are just heart breaking. That is truly the typical PA model as told through one of their crest fallen faithful.

Sparhawk
07-06-2007, 05:48 PM
I just read that...it was so sad! It broke my heart. Then came the misinformation:

"They don't stock new authors..."
"The manager is wrong. PA books are returnable..."
"B+N stocks PA books. Many of us have books on the shelf at B+N..."


I'm waiting for the infamous ..."A Barnes and Noble executive once told us Blah blah blah" from Misinfocenter

Jersey Chick
07-06-2007, 05:49 PM
And don't forget you have to know Oprah, Dr. Phil, and the cast of Good Morning America as well... Otherwise no one else will ever want to publish a no-name author's book.

:rant:

Must've whipped up a fresh batch of kool-aid...

Sparhawk
07-06-2007, 06:08 PM
I just heard from a film producer who has contacted a director she knows who may be suitable to direct a film version of my novel, THE TEMPTRESS ARIEL. I have been waiting a long time to hear from her but she said that films can take years to make sometimes. She said I need to be patient and she will get back to me soon but people in the film industry are usually very busy. Hopefully, the director will like my novel and film it. However, I may have to wait a few weeks or more to find out.

Could this be the next 'Vortex of Revelation' ????

James D. Macdonald
07-06-2007, 06:09 PM
Perhaps that nice lady will Google on The Truth About PublishAmerica (http://www.freewebs.com/truthaboutpa/faqs.htm). Maybe she'll learn The Only Thing You Need To Know About PublishAmerica (http://www.steelypips.org/miscellany/publishamerica.html).

Put another chair by the pool and mix up some lemonade--she'll be over here pretty soon.

brianm
07-06-2007, 06:10 PM
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=22067

Cara, Tim is right Barns & Noble will carry books by PA. In fact, my first book signing is at my local BN and the manager that I spoke with mentioned the PA was one of their major places they get books from and did not have any issue with ordering the books for the book signing. I think it was just the manager. Like Tim was saying go to another BN or Borders and see if they would be interested in putting your book on the shelve. Don't give up, I am sure that your book will be a success

PA a major source for B&N books? Where do they come up with this nonsense? If her statement was true, why didn't the other B&N have all these PA books on their shelves?

PA must love to see this garbage on PAMB. It makes their statement about books being available in bookstores from sea to shining sea appear to be true.

brianm
07-06-2007, 06:16 PM
Could this be the next 'Vortex of Revelation' ????

Maybe they'll tell him Steven Spielberg is interested but he needs to pay them some money to format the book as a screenplay. Just a few hundred...

Mel
07-06-2007, 06:18 PM
Everytime I read stuff like this I get a visual of the three stooges preening. Makes me shudder. I think I need to go wash my mind out now.

Mel
07-06-2007, 06:31 PM
And infocrap finally spews out its lies wisdom.

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21846&start=15

Jersey Chick
07-06-2007, 06:31 PM
I sometimes think the only people buying books are family... not that that's a bad thing, but I really wanted to sell books to people who want to read it because it's a good book, not because they feel obligated because they are related to me.

That little glimmer of light? Reality is dawning closer. Lemonade's ready and the chair's in a shady spot (it's real sunny today.) :)

Jersey Chick
07-06-2007, 06:33 PM
We do not know why you continue to state things that appear
not to be true. We have offered, numerous times, to evaluate your
change request. Each time we ask you to send them, we receive
nothing. We know that you are receiving our messages, because
you replied, saying that you would send your changes:

Yes - PA's messages always get to their recipient (when it suits PA, of course), but somehow, the author's messages don't seem to make it through on the return trip (cue Twilight Zone music.)

JCT
07-06-2007, 06:58 PM
Moe-randa...does it make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside to browbeat your authors?

brianm
07-06-2007, 07:09 PM
They are concentrating on what is happening now. Not what happened in the past when they failed to make the corrections to her error riddled, multiple page-missing book.

It's interesting to note that their language has toned down a wee bit here. No longer are they saying she is making false statements. Now it's...

you continue to state things that APPEAR not to be true.

In other words, we know we didn't follow through with your requests in 2004 but we're going to try and make it APPEAR like we did by posting current emails. We know we called you a liar on a public message board and damaged your reputation but now we're going to back peddle and try to make it APPEAR like we didn't mean it.

Jersey Chick
07-06-2007, 07:22 PM
And here's this:
This is a repetition of what you said above. Again, actually,
that option was available, by request.

Now, if you were under the assumption that you'd be assigned an editor, one who would actually edit, why would you think to request it?

Is it just me or does that make little to no sense? :Wha:

emphasis mine

allenparker
07-06-2007, 07:48 PM
I looked at the page info for the Request Change page. Did anyone else notice that the page was "edited" just minutes before the response was made? Has anyone else ever seen this page before? are there any indications that they didn't just make this page and then, for our benefit here, try to convince everyone that they really edit a book and make corrections as requested?

brianm
07-06-2007, 07:51 PM
I looked at the page info for the Request Change page. Did anyone else notice that the page was "edited" just minutes before the response was made? Has anyone else ever seen this page before? are there any indications that they didn't just make this page and then, for our benefit here, try to convince everyone that they really edit a book and make corrections as requested?

Link?

EDIT: Never mind, I found it.

http://www.publishamerica.com/BookInPrintChangeRequest/

allenparker
07-06-2007, 07:54 PM
Link?

http://www.publishamerica.com/BookInPrintChangeRequest

For the years I was there, they denied the ability to make changes to books.

I also went looking for the place where an author searching the web page would find a link to this page. I did not find one. Maybe I missed it.

brianm
07-06-2007, 08:03 PM
It's interesting to note that none of the usual PAvadians have entered a post on Barbara's thread since yesterday when she responded to PA. They are flocking to this thread to continue the "Rah! Rah! PA gave me a chance FOR FREE and I'm one of their 20,000 happy published authors."

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21610

Come on PAvadians, get your heads out of the sand. The truth about PA is staring you in the face. No amount of cult group hugging and cheering is going to undo the truth about PA.

Tina
07-06-2007, 08:15 PM
No disrespect intended, Mr. Macdonald, but how can you be sure the errors were there when the book was accepted and that the PA spellcheck didn't put them there after the book left the author's hands? I think it's just a bit strange myself that the author didn't notice these in four years yet suddenly they appear after said author loses control of the book.

Either way (whether it is the author's fault or PA's) a reputable "traditional" publisher would never release a book to the reading public that was packed with errors.

A few typos in an entire book is no biggie - a dozen grammatical and spelling errors on every page (and I did see this in a PA book) makes reading laborous and sometimes even impossible.

brianm
07-06-2007, 08:17 PM
Either way (whether it is the author's fault or PA's) a reputable "traditional" publisher would never release a book to the reading public that was packed with errors.

A few typos in an entire book is no biggie - a dozen grammatical and spelling errors on every page (and I did see this in a PA book) makes reading laborous and sometimes even impossible.

Blurred text and pages falling out don't help either.:D

JCT
07-06-2007, 08:20 PM
Huh, that request changes is something I've never seen or heard of in my years watching that place. This stinks of Moe-randa.

emsuniverse
07-06-2007, 08:28 PM
Got a question - Barbara, did they alter the email you sent them when they posted it? Just curious.

CatSlave
07-06-2007, 08:28 PM
And infocrap finally spews out its lies wisdom.

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21846&start=15

The text department makes all final decisions regarding whether or not changes will be made to books that are already in print.

That is a baldfaced LIE.

We have offered, numerous times, to evaluate your change request.

Meaningless weasel words. PA will then deny the request, after 'evaluating' it, and blame the text department who has no say in the decision. All the text department has to do is format the changes. Barbara's book could have already been corrected and finished in less time than has been spent wrangling on the message boards. Of course, it is will still be unmarketable even with corrections, but that's a different issue.

On a brighter note, PA continues to make a public fool of itself and therefore more and more PA authors are realizing how PA has deceived them also. Not only are they turning away from PA, but we also hear from new authors every day that refuse to sign with PA.

emsuniverse
07-06-2007, 08:32 PM
And the "Barnes and Noble won't stock PA books" thread aggravates me more than I can even express... These people are absolutely, positively ruthless and determined to screw their authors at every turn, aren't they? Do they not have a conscience? At all? It's just one big kool-aid fest.

emsuniverse
07-06-2007, 08:34 PM
Cara, Tim is right Barns & Noble will carry books by PA. In fact, my first book signing is at my local BN and the manager that I spoke with mentioned the PA was one of their major places they get books from and did not have any issue with ordering the books for the book signing.

This just...wow.

JCT
07-06-2007, 08:39 PM
And the "Barnes and Noble won't stock PA books" thread aggravates me more than I can even express... These people are absolutely, positively ruthless and determined to screw their authors at every turn, aren't they? Do they not have a conscience? At all? It's just one big kool-aid fest.

I do wonder how they live with themselves. It only makes sense if they a) have no moral character b) don't care. C) both.

Jersey Chick
07-06-2007, 08:42 PM
I'll take, C, Alex, for $500.

Makes me sick, really.

Mel
07-06-2007, 08:42 PM
http://www.publishamerica.com/BookInPrintChangeRequest

For the years I was there, they denied the ability to make changes to books.


And yet in the form the "Month and Year Author Copies Were Received" goes back to 1999. You know they would say you're lying. "This has always been here, it's not our fault you never utilized it."

And just for kicks I viewed the source and under the meta tags one is "cheap publishing" which made me :roll: Wow, PA, we didn't know you had a sense of humor!

emsuniverse
07-06-2007, 08:42 PM
All I can hope for is that someday soon they will be exposed, they will crash, burn and lose their "business", their "20,000 happy authors", and of course, that damn helicopter (if it exists...)

Bo Sullivan
07-06-2007, 08:46 PM
Got a question - Barbara, did they alter the email you sent them when they posted it? Just curious.

I am going to have a look at what they have posted. I will be back.

I can't understand how American spellings got into my book when I know I didn't put them there. Now the book contains spellings of English words and the equivalent American spellings on other pages. They must have run one of their famous search and replace/spellchecks on my book but they are pointing out that I requested them not to edit the manuscript.

Moon Daughter
07-06-2007, 08:53 PM
Either way (whether it is the author's fault or PA's) a reputable "traditional" publisher would never release a book to the reading public that was packed with errors.

A few typos in an entire book is no biggie - a dozen grammatical and spelling errors on every page (and I did see this in a PA book) makes reading laborous and sometimes even impossible.

I bought a PA book in December 2006 because a guy I knew published with them. I agree that it does make reading very hard with so many mistakes. I actually got pissed off reading it...then I had to laugh. (not at the author, btw)

Jersey Chick
07-06-2007, 09:00 PM
Typos don't really bother me as long as there aren't too many. I've never really noticed any serious grammar issues in books but I think that would drive me up the wall if I had to stop and do a "huh?" every few pages or so.

Pages falling out, though, is an entirely different animal. I've had books that fell apart from being read and reread over the course of many years, but I'd be a little irritated if it happened the first time. :D

Mel
07-06-2007, 09:01 PM
Can't open anything there now. All I get is "The page cannot be found" on Opera, Firefox and Netscape. Anyone else having problems or is it just my computer?

Jersey Chick
07-06-2007, 09:04 PM
I had that problem - it took a few shots before it was displayed. I've noticed that when it happens, something has been deleted or altered on PA's side - maybe they're tooling around with the boards? Yanno, changing the posts so they're more favorable.

Nah - that would be dishonest, right? And we know PA is never dishonest! ;)

JimmyD1318
07-06-2007, 09:05 PM
Can't open anything there now. All I get is "The page cannot be found" on Opera, Firefox and Netscape. Anyone else having problems or is it just my computer?

I can't pull it up either. They have gone into lockdown mode. It must have gotten a little to heated over there for now. I bet you they have taken the message borad down for now and will do a little 'Summer Time Cleaning' and get rid of all of the negitive stuff against them.

JimmyD1318
07-06-2007, 09:08 PM
I had that problem - it took a few shots before it was displayed. I've noticed that when it happens, something has been deleted or altered on PA's side - maybe they're tooling around with the boards? Yanno, changing the posts so they're more favorable.

Nah - that would be dishonest, right? And we know PA is never dishonest! ;)


Surrrreeee they wouldn't! :roll: In a pig's eye.

Jersey Chick
07-06-2007, 09:09 PM
How sneaky! How underhanded! How - how so very much like them! :D

Can't wait to see the "new and improved" message boards!

Man, I wish it would get interesting over there again - where's Porn Guy when you need him? And what happened to French lady? **sighs**

Mel
07-06-2007, 09:10 PM
Maybe too hot over there and here. They've got flames coming at them from all directions. It seems like whenever things flare up over there I have problems with their site timing out. Always odd to me since AW is so much larger and I never get that here. Makes me think they're doing something sneaky. :)

brianm
07-06-2007, 09:12 PM
Well, Miranda was slithering about in here this morning. She just left. Maybe, she didn't like what she saw here and went back to her hole to try and undo the damage.

Mel
07-06-2007, 09:13 PM
French Lady has posted a few times in other places there. I'm wondering what happened to her "accent" in her posts - it seems to have went poof. Odd. She also changed her avatar, possibly a more recent picture?

JimmyD1318
07-06-2007, 09:15 PM
Where's Porn Guy when you need him?

Here he is....http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=56495314 . Check out his blog.

JCT
07-06-2007, 09:20 PM
I can get that Change Request now (12:50 eastern).

Duh! you are talking about the PAMB. Ya, still down.

Andrew Jameson
07-06-2007, 09:24 PM
I looked at the page info for the Request Change page. Did anyone else notice that the page was "edited" just minutes before the response was made? Has anyone else ever seen this page before? are there any indications that they didn't just make this page and then, for our benefit here, try to convince everyone that they really edit a book and make corrections as requested?
The Wayback Machine cached this page on August 18, 2006 (http://web.archive.org/web/20060818020449/http://www.publishamerica.com/BookInPrintChangeRequest/). It's substantially similar to the current version.

Jersey Chick
07-06-2007, 09:27 PM
OK - went to Porn Guy's myspace - my eyes hurt now. Could the font be smaller?


I'll have to go check out where others have wandered - I tend to stick to the lounge and general boards and forget about the others.

Still can't get on the boards - must be some major overhauling going on. Maybe they're getting ready to burn someone at the stake - metaphorically speaking, of course.

Nah - just probably doing some **ahem** polishing.

brianm
07-06-2007, 09:34 PM
Maybe they've finally realized that the PAMB (aka: The Publish America Recruitment Board) is doing them more harm than good? Maybe they'll remove it entirely in the hopes that threads like this will dry up and blow away.

Jersey Chick
07-06-2007, 09:36 PM
Well, it'd free up some of my time - but life would be slightly duller.

JCT
07-06-2007, 09:46 PM
It does make me wonder whether keeping a recruitment tool like that is worth the trouble. Perhaps if they got rid of it, Moe-randa would be unemployed.


Nah, she has authors to gull and employees to yell at.

Jersey Chick
07-06-2007, 09:49 PM
Nope - it's back - but I can't tell if there have been any changes. Interesting... very interesting...

allenparker
07-06-2007, 10:28 PM
The Wayback Machine cached this page on August 18, 2006 (http://web.archive.org/web/20060818020449/http://www.publishamerica.com/BookInPrintChangeRequest/). It's substantially similar to the current version.

My mistake, then. I just never saw it. Sorry guys and gals...

Afinerosesheis
07-06-2007, 10:47 PM
All their sites are down regularly. I remember that when I used to post there.

Afinerosesheis
07-06-2007, 10:52 PM
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=22075

Here is French Lady. True friendship sure must be a special thing.:Shrug:

CatSlave
07-06-2007, 10:53 PM
I'm sure if the Request Change page was there -prior to 2006- it was conveniently buried where it would be difficult to find.
Of course, one would have to know of its existence to look for it in the first place, eh?
Just another clumsy attempt at sleight-of-word by the PA tricksters.

JCT
07-06-2007, 11:22 PM
$12.95 for a 60 page book of poetry??

DaveKuzminski
07-06-2007, 11:26 PM
Of course, with the way that PA constantly shoots down the hopes of its authors, I can't help but wonder when they'll push one of them too far and find they have a real need for bodyguards? Anyone want to start a dead pool?

Personally, I think Larry will be the one to take it for the company.

Why?

Because Vic will turn state's evidence the moment he realizes the company is going to be investigated. Losing Miranda won't hurt the company even though it would be satisfying to the aggrieved author. And Willem won't last without Larry, but Larry will easily continue on without Willem.

e.dashwood
07-06-2007, 11:36 PM
$12.95 for a 60 page book of poetry??

I'd pay that if it were recently discovered poems of W.H. Auden.

Jersey Chick
07-06-2007, 11:39 PM
I sent you an email telling you that I am working my way through the required changes and you did not reply.

Then you post on here to tell me I have not replied.

eh?

and

"If you would like this thread to be removed, please let
us know and we will do so."

Please don't delete this thread, but please do put back the wording of my second post earlier up this thread. It disappeared without a trace last week, I believe. Causing ambiguity.

Thanks

Go get 'em :D - still no one else has come forward. But let's see how Infomonster spins this!

brianm
07-06-2007, 11:42 PM
Please don't delete this thread, but please do put back the wording of my second post earlier up this thread. It disappeared without a trace last week, I believe. Causing ambiguity.

Thanks

Delightful touch, dear Barbara. Infomonster certainly opened the door to that one.

The ball, as they say, is in infomonster's court.

endless rewrite
07-06-2007, 11:57 PM
Of course, with the way that PA constantly shoots down the hopes of its authors, I can't help but wonder when they'll push one of them too far and find they have a real need for bodyguards?



My money is on the guy clutching a gun in his author picture.

Jersey Chick
07-06-2007, 11:59 PM
My money is on the guy clutching a gun in his author picture.


:ROFL: :roll:

How ironic would that be?

JCT
07-07-2007, 12:04 AM
Why would someone waste perfectly good ammo on any of those three?

Mel
07-07-2007, 12:07 AM
My money is on the guy clutching a gun in his author picture.

Only if he ever leaves "happy, happy land." Right now he's just tickled pink for all they've done for him. But, yeah, that would be something to see if it turned out to be him.

Jersey Chick
07-07-2007, 12:14 AM
And the expected response arrives!

Again,

- You asked us to make changes, years ago.
- At that time we said to send send them; we would consider it.
- We heard nothing from you.
- You posted, falsely, that we refused to make the changes.
- You asked us again, recently, and we told you the same thing.
- You again posted, falsely, that we refused to make the changes.

Again we repeat, we have offered, several times, to evaluate your
change request. Each time we ask you to send them, we receive
nothing. Then you stated here, falsely, that we refused to make
your changes. Please stop doing that.

We know that you are receiving our messages, because you
replied, saying that you would send your changes. So far we
have received nothing.

Yup - we didn't do it. We didn't do anything. (which is really kinda the problem, no?)

They should have added - Expect your tone letter at any time. And their demand for an apology. (Reminds me of Kevin Kline's character in A Fish Called Wanda, when he dangles John Cleese out of the window - "Apologize!")

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21846&start=15

DaveKuzminski
07-07-2007, 12:15 AM
Why would someone waste perfectly good ammo on any of those three?

Target practice? ;)

endless rewrite
07-07-2007, 12:16 AM
He's already commented on the high price of his book. I tell you, he looks twitchy.

JCT
07-07-2007, 12:22 AM
And the expected response arrives!



Yup - we didn't do it. We didn't do anything. (which is really kinda the problem, no?)

They should have added - Expect your tone letter at any time. And their demand for an apology. (Reminds me of Kevin Kline's character in A Fish Called Wanda, when he dangles John Cleese out of the window - "Apologize!")

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21846&start=15


Not going home early, eh, Moe-randa?

Mel
07-07-2007, 12:23 AM
Yes, but he did say it would only be a bonus. :Shrug: He does have squinty eyes, though.

Jersey Chick
07-07-2007, 12:32 AM
And - of course - he's packin' ;)

Bo Sullivan
07-07-2007, 12:35 AM
And the expected response arrives!



Yup - we didn't do it. We didn't do anything. (which is really kinda the problem, no?)

They should have added - Expect your tone letter at any time. And their demand for an apology. (Reminds me of Kevin Kline's character in A Fish Called Wanda, when he dangles John Cleese out of the window - "Apologize!")

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21846&start=15

I replied to them twice by e-mail and they keep saying they have heard nothing. I keep telling them I am making a list of changes to be implemented. It's taking some time.

Bo Sullivan
07-07-2007, 12:40 AM
Delightful touch, dear Barbara. Infomonster certainly opened the door to that one.

The ball, as they say, is in infomonster's court.


They are ch ch childish in the extreme. "Please stop doing that" - Does that mean: please do not communicate with us by e-mail, which is what I did yesterday and today. Or does it mean: "Don't say we called you a liar in public"

endless rewrite
07-07-2007, 12:42 AM
Watch out, next thing they will be pushing you over and stealing your lunch money.

Jersey Chick
07-07-2007, 12:45 AM
Or they'll sic the faithful on you.

And they'll be dangling you out the window saying, "Apologize."

Stand firm - Barbara - hopefully you'll be able to force their hand. And keep your lunch money.

Queen of Swords
07-07-2007, 01:08 AM
OK, this is just unbelievable. (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21610&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15)

As most people know, I now write full time. This would not be possible if not for Publish America.

The only way I can see this happening would be if an author lost so much money thanks to PA that he was able to go on welfare, thereby freeing him up to write.

Bo Sullivan
07-07-2007, 01:24 AM
Watch out, next thing they will be pushing you over and stealing your lunch money.

Do you think the info responses are coming from their lawyer? There are none so childish as lawyers. I generally find the more intelligent the person, the more childish they are as adults.

barbara

endless rewrite
07-07-2007, 01:28 AM
As most people know, I now write full time. This would not be possible if not for Publish America.

Not having a job for that particular poster has little to do with PA. He's very open about his life and medical condition on his web page. He is one of those people who gets a great deal of happiness from the experience of being a published author. I hope the come down if there is one, is gentle. If PA was upfront about what it did then there would be no need for people to feel duped or defensive and PA would still be in business and with fewer hard feelings.

emsuniverse
07-07-2007, 02:53 AM
So they "edited" Barbara's email before they posted it?

Bo Sullivan
07-07-2007, 03:05 AM
So they "edited" Barbara's email before they posted it?

Why are they posting my emails on their board? I write to them in private.

I've just posted in that thread again: Writing Discussion: My book banned from library. Someone there is telling me I am getting what I deserve.

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=21846

GRRRR!!!

Jersey Chick
07-07-2007, 03:12 AM
I think you're being very professional about it - very level-headed and cool. A lot cooler than I could be, I think. :)

I guess it's ok for you to be slandered, but don't ever say a negative word about PA Almighty.

Bo Sullivan
07-07-2007, 03:15 AM
I think you're being very professional about it - very level-headed and cool. A lot cooler than I could be, I think. :)

I guess it's ok for you to be slandered, but don't ever say a negative word about PA Almighty.

I'm doing my best to stay cool, calm and collected. Usually the one who loses an argument shows the most anger.

:tongue

Jersey Chick
07-07-2007, 03:17 AM
I guess that would be me - although I'd go out in a blaze of glory weaving a fine tapestry of obscenities for all to enjoy! :D

No, actually, I tend to back off and let my temper cool before firing back - otherwise I stand an extremely excellent chance of making absolutely no sense.

Still, my hat's off to you for grace under pressure and all those other cliches! :)

Bo Sullivan
07-07-2007, 03:24 AM
I guess that would be me - although I'd go out in a blaze of glory weaving a fine tapestry of obscenities for all to enjoy! :D

No, actually, I tend to back off and let my temper cool before firing back - otherwise I stand an extremely excellent chance of making absolutely no sense.

Still, my hat's off to you for grace under pressure and all those other cliches! :)

I'm smiling in the face of adversity. :partyguy: Either way I win! They have already said they will make the amendments. I will have an error free book. If libraries pick it up I will be very happy. History books are generally not best-sellers anyway. I will have a book to be proud of, especially since it was my first book.

That will benefit PA in every way.

I will go on to bigger and better things one day :Cake: and move onwards and upwards. :Guitar:

he he

emsuniverse
07-07-2007, 03:30 AM
Why are they posting my emails on their board? I write to them in private.

Simple. They want to discredit you.

"Accept the inevitable consequences"? Someone's drank their Kool-aid today.

You're being very polite, I must say.

If it were me I'd just go for the gold and tell them off. But that would be counterproductive. Fun, yes. But counterproductive nonetheless.

CatSlave
07-07-2007, 03:40 AM
Again we repeat, we have offered, several times, to evaluate your change request.

Not to rain on your parade, but all PA is saying is they will *evaluate* your request, not honor it.
I'll believe it when I see it.

Bo Sullivan
07-07-2007, 03:44 AM
Simple. They want to discredit you.

"Accept the inevitable consequences"? Someone's drank their Kool-aid today.

You're being very polite, I must say.

If it were me I'd just go for the gold and tell them off. But that would be counterproductive. Fun, yes. But counterproductive nonetheless.

I've got a Fowlers English Dictionary to hand, and a calm mind in my head. If I see red I let myself calm down before posting on most occasions.

I am really finding it difficult to keep my trap shut, but unfortunately, I do have a sarcastic side to my nature. Sarcasm does on many occasions trip the offender up so that they say things in a jumbled up way when they see the red rag of sarcasm. That benefits me. They are going at me like a red rag to a bull. I am staying calm. They are slipping up and posting my emails on the board. This shows other authors on the PAMB what PA are made of. It reminds the other authors to tow the line and not step off that path. I have stepped off that path and they have backed down in a sense, by offering to make the amendments, and they have done it publicly.

Whether they will actually make the amendments is another matter. I live in hope.

Bo Sullivan
07-07-2007, 03:49 AM
Again we repeat, we have offered, several times, to evaluate your change request.

Not to rain on your parade, but all PA is saying is they will *evaluate* your request, not honor it.
I'll believe it when I see it.


I live in hope for the time being.

When is a book not a book? When it has errors in it and no-one will read it. :rant:

DaveKuzminski
07-07-2007, 04:03 AM
When PA posts an excerpt from one of your emails, post the entire email here so others can see for themselves how PA is trying to twist everything to their advantage.

BenPanced
07-07-2007, 04:18 AM
Oh, my swearword...

I only wish they had the connections to the brick and morter booksellers and the television media that the other publishing houses have. It would help to get a talk show or for the book's release to be part on the news on Good Morning America or The View. Connections are the difference between mediocre sales and a blockbuster, more than the publisher. However, if the publisher can set up the connections, more the better. Especially I thank Publish America for giving unknown people their first chance at no out of pocket expense. I guess buying a few of my own books for promotional purposes doesn't bother me when I had no cost for my book's production.

(Bolding mine.)

I'll be in the kitchen making up a batch of chocolate chip cookies.

emsuniverse
07-07-2007, 04:25 AM
Oh, my swearword...

That's EXACTLY how I feel.

triceretops
07-07-2007, 04:40 AM
I guess buying a few of my own books for promotional purposes doesn't bother me when I had no cost for my book's production.

And it was probably more than a few--more like 50. But you see...you did infact pay for the book's production after the fact. On the back end. Reverse vanity.

tri

Afinerosesheis
07-07-2007, 04:52 AM
Barbara said "I will go on to bigger and better things one day :Cake: and move onwards and upwards. :Guitar:"


Keep the faith girl, keep the faith! It is hope for better things that we must look to in the face of adversity. I needed one slight change to my book, it was honored and fixed promptly, but I did have to sign off saying no other changes would be made. Do not lose hope, keep e-mailing them until your requests are taken care of. I feel for you seeing these posts. :( But do not lose your faith. We are here for you if you need us.

Jersey Chick
07-07-2007, 05:27 AM
Well, Infomonster's at it again. They deleted the thread - poof. Wow - guess they couldn't come up with a truthful answer, so just make the question go away, I guess.

I can't say I'm surprised.

Barbara, does your password still work or is it mysterious denied as well?

CatSlave
07-07-2007, 05:33 AM
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=22080

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: Has anyone been really surprised?

Has anyone gotten their check from PA and just been really shocked by how many books they had sold? I mean has anyone really hit the 2,000 mark here?

JimmyD1318
07-07-2007, 05:36 AM
Well, Infomonster's at it again. They deleted the thread - poof. Wow - guess they couldn't come up with a truthful answer, so just make the question go away, I guess.

I can't say I'm surprised.

Barbara, does your password still work or is it mysterious denied as well?

I knew that was going to happen sooner or later.

Jersey Chick
07-07-2007, 05:40 AM
Connections are the difference between mediocre sales and a blockbuster, more than the publisher.

Ummm... but don't the publishers have the connections? Specifically, isn't it called a marketing department (or some version of it)? Oy.

However, if the publisher can set up the connections, more the better. Uh - yeah.

Especially I thank Publish America for giving unknown people their first chance at no out of pocket expense. I guess buying a few of my own books for promotional purposes doesn't bother me when I had no cost for my book's production.

Am I the only one to see that this sentence is an oxymoron? I can't be. I just can't be. **smacks heel of hand into forehead, almost knocks self out from force of the blow - ow**

JCT
07-07-2007, 05:43 AM
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=22080

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: Has anyone been really surprised?

Has anyone gotten their check from PA and just been really shocked by how many books they had sold? I mean has anyone really hit the 2,000 mark here?

Probably just the opposite.

Queen of Swords
07-07-2007, 05:56 AM
I mean has anyone really hit the 2,000 mark here?

$2,000 spent on buying your own books or 2,000 lollipops made into trees?

Jersey Chick
07-07-2007, 05:57 AM
Let's see how many rah-rah'ers come out on this one ;)

CatSlave
07-07-2007, 06:00 AM
Probably just the opposite.
A Destiny Foretold by Neo Franco Cantú

http://www.adf44.com/

This is the top-selling PA book *ever* from 20,000 authors.
It sold about 5,200 copies; I don't know how many the author himself bought.

Funny that the PublishAmerica bookstore is not listed as a source from which to purchase the book.

JCT
07-07-2007, 06:35 AM
A Destiny Foretold by Neo Franco Cantú

http://www.adf44.com/

This is the top-selling PA book *ever* from 20,000 authors.
It sold about 5,200 copies; I don't know how many the author himself bought.

Funny that the PublishAmerica bookstore is not listed as a source from which to purchase the book.

Ya, I noticed that as well.

DaveKuzminski
07-07-2007, 06:52 AM
A Destiny Foretold by Neo Franco Cantú

http://www.adf44.com/

This is the top-selling PA book *ever* from 20,000 authors.
It sold about 5,200 copies; I don't know how many the author himself bought.

Funny that the PublishAmerica bookstore is not listed as a source from which to purchase the book.

I believe I recall reading he self-purchased most of them.

ResearchGuy
07-07-2007, 08:01 AM
. . . pay for the book's production after the fact. On the back end. Reverse vanity.

tri
Still vanity. No reverse about it. Different mechanism for making a profit, but the same model of (a) focusing sales on the author and (b) persuading the author that his or her book has been legitimately published by a competitive commercial press. That model is what makes a vanity press, not the mechanics of payment.

--Ken

emsuniverse
07-07-2007, 08:58 AM
I want to cry. I read a couple posts (recent ones) by the lady who wrote about her husband and I wonder how she's going to take her check.

From the post: "Did you miss me?"
I can't wait until August when I get my first royalty check. I wonder what I should expect?

Um.

Her most recent post confuses me. Very much so. She wants to know if it breaks her contract to use Amazon's search inside the book feature to promote her book. How would that be breaking the contract? Am I missing something?

Oh, and she sold a book at a gas station.

Jersey Chick
07-07-2007, 09:35 AM
It's late and I must be tired, but I got an attack of the giggles after reading that she sold a book at a gas station...

i need sleep

endless rewrite
07-07-2007, 11:06 AM
On the PAMB thread about book signings. This once happy PA author has finally seen that no matter how huge the effort by the author, PA works against you at every turn if you are trying to get books into stores. He also knows that pointing out the facts is seen as trouble making by PA.



This is what it cost to be an author from PA:
1. You pay for all of the advertising. Yes they notifiy all the big companies that you have a book coming out. But realize that the big companies receive notices for thousands of books. You have to be the one that tells the customer what your selling.
2. You are the one that's paying for publicity. This is the free puppy question. There is no such thing as a free puppy. It is the same about publicity. If you donate a book to the library, you're still out the cost of the book.
3. Can you afford to be a distributor? On your first order of 50 books or more (no less than 50) they give you a 50% discount. Subsequent orders, unless they have a special promotion going on is 40% for orders of 50 books or more. So that means the cost of the book such as my first one at 21.95 cost 10.98 at the 50% discount on first order. On the second order 21.95 cost 13.20. Now you also have to remember that you are paying for the cost of shipping, so that adds at least a dollar to every book. See how quickly your profit drops if you act as the distributor. Better to let the stores do the ordering. But wait a minute, some stores do not want to carry PA books and why is that you ask? Well large chain of book stores that has been ordering my book, has stopped. Why, the main reason is that the books is costing them $20 then sales for 21.95. They are not making enough profit off the book. So I have to ask the question. If PA is sending me a royalties check for 8% on my book that they sell at $15, and the bookstore says that they are paying $20 for the book. Where did the $5 go? Well that ought to be enough to get me in trouble.

PVish
07-08-2007, 06:50 AM
Uh-oh.

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=22101
My book [Title redacted] will be available for purchase on August 20th. I've really made a giant leap with my marketing. I began talking with a woman from a library who agreed to buy the book and place it in her library.

A friend of mine is friends with a manager at Hastings in Bartlesville, who has already pre-ordered my book for their shelves.

Then my dearest mother who works at Wal-mart, made friends with the lady who brings them their books. The woman pulled MANY strings and it has been agreed that Wal-mart will carry my books through out their stores world wide. That was a major break through.

Then today I recieved word that a lady my sister is friends with, works at B&N, has already set a book signing date for her store and 3 other B&N stores in Oklahoma for me.

I don't mean to gloat, I'm just so excited that PA has helped me accomplish a dream!

Oh, my. I feel so sorry for her when she learns that PA will turn her dream into a nightmare.

LloydBrown
07-08-2007, 07:02 AM
The woman pulled MANY strings and it has been agreed that Wal-mart will carry my books through out their stores world wide.

I simply don't believe that.

Wal-Mart doesn't decide which books they carry, because a third-party vendor (Anderson) owns, stocks, and merchandises the book selection. Some friend-of-a-friend at Wal-Mart has no ability to make that choice. They can make the promise, but it'll be empty.

triceretops
07-08-2007, 07:21 AM
Besides that, doesn't Wal-Mart require upwards of 55% to 60% discount? How in the heck are they going to get around that one? I don't believe that either. The whole declaration is damanging--it leads others to believe that world-wide distribution is possible, and that B & N is eagarly on their way to multiple signings and placement.

I wish this would happen, and hope it does for the author, at least to some degree. But I can't help but think that someway PA will muck this whole thing up and shatter yet, another dream.

I applaud loudly the pluck and nerve of these PA authors to overcome immense adversity, nevertheless. They do a hell of a lot more marketing and distribution that PA ever did, or could. And they certainly know more about that side of the industry than PA does.

Tri

DaveKuzminski
07-08-2007, 07:22 AM
Alien Enigma, no one is laughing at your lack of sales. That was expected. We tried to warn you. We want you to be a successful writer because we're not in competition. Your fan base, once it's realized, is different from each of ours. Sure, some of us will share some of the same fans, but when we do it's because those fans like what each of us have created. After all, you don't read only one author ever. Neither do I. Nor do most other writers. We have a myriad of likes which have created our own individualistic tastes in reading and writing. That's why we're not in competition and can honestly say we want to see you succeed.

Unfortunately, so long as you hang onto PublishAmerica as a binky that's been used and used and dropped on so many floors that it's unconscionably filthy, you'll never reach success. You have to take a real step into reaching real publishing. It'll be a baby step, but once you reach real publication, you'll never need to look back and you'll then be running.