Powered Infantry -- Possible to do without Manga references?

[dclary]

I guess it's one of the problems with sci-fi, trying to extend and build out your own future that's unique and separate enough from other similar visions so as to stand out on its own.

I'm working on a sci-fi novel that is a hostile first-contact with earth's first powered infantry company. But as much as possible, I'd like the imagery to evoke more a flavor of Heinlein than Gundam.

Is that even possible anymore, given the prevalence of the Japanese influence in this specific sphere of sci fi?

[AceTachyon]

My current WIP (undergoing revisions) also deals with Powered Infantry, drawing inspiration not only from Heinlein but also from Masamune Shirow's Appleseed.

I'm not too worried about the comparisons considering the Battletech and Warhammer 40K novels that are out there.

We might end up with a new sub-sub-genre: mecha military SF. :)

[Ordinary_Guy]

I guess it's one of the problems with sci-fi, trying to extend and build out your own future that's unique and separate enough from other similar visions so as to stand out on its own.

I'm working on a sci-fi novel that is a hostile first-contact with earth's first powered infantry company. But as much as possible, I'd like the imagery to evoke more a flavor of Heinlein than Gundam.

Is that even possible anymore, given the prevalence of the Japanese influence in this specific sphere of sci fi?
Definitely. A friend of mine wrote a bit about a former-powered armor trooper in the Heinlein vein (who was tortured over his war experiences). Very good stuff.

For that matter, where would "Halo" be without armored troopers? No Gundam there...

Of course, you should milk the Japanese influence for all it can give: they've poured a lotta imagination into it. Heck, check this out:
http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2006/08/giantgundam.jpg (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/robots/humansized-112-scale-gundam-rx782-giant-toy-robot-not-yet-big-enough-to-pilot-192169.php)

My thought, if you haven't already, is get as real as possible and build it up from there. Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_armor) has a fairly decent start on it (with enough references to make you feel good about powered armor beyond the style of our Japanese friends (Technovelgy (http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=11) mentions a few references, too). If you have any doubts about serious efforts to make this reality, check out DARPA's own blurb on it (http://www.darpa.mil/dso/thrust/matdev/ehpa.htm)...
:guns:

[MadScientistMatt]

Might be a good idea to try and find some examples of current, real-world experiments in powered infantry suits. Here's two to get you started.

This is a PDF with pictures of a very strange looking one that definitely does not resemble manga. (http://www.springwalker.com/AMotionExo.pdf)

The UC Berkley BLEEX system has been in the news recently. (http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2004/03/03_exo.shtml)

[beezle]

Heinlein manged.

[zornhau]

John Ringo did it recently.

[LloydBrown]

Dan Simmons had a similar encounter in his Hyperion. It wasn't a major element of the book, but it maintains the Hyperion feel.

[Soyarma]

Keep in mind the advances in carbon nanotubes: 5x the stiffness of steel and 50x the tensile strength and are lighter than steel. The wikipedia artcle on em says that MIT is already working on combat armor using carbon nanotubes, but there is no citation.

I'd wager that using a carbon nanotube based armor would remove most of the needs for power in powered armor. Of course that power could just be used to haul around additional weaponry.

[Richard White]

Actually, the military is looking into using exo-skeletons to help move heavier weapons/equipment with the soldiers as well as robotics.

Google the "Gladiator". It's a robot mounting a M243 belt-fed machinegun, numerous grenade launcers and smoke grenade launchers, track driven and optically guided. When they get all the bugs on this guy worked out, there are going to be some very happy Marines. All those X-Box/PS3 skills from playing Halo are going to have a use after all.

[Soyarma]

Once they get the whole carbon nanotube thing worked out, there won't be any heavy equipment, so that will be moot. Armor that can stop a 50 cal weigh as much as a 3 piece suit will be all the rage.

[badducky]

I think the real question isn't the technology, but how the individual soldiers will abuse the technology to serve their non-combat ends.

How will individuals royally screw up and injure themselves? How will the crazy army surplus store guys use it when they're drunk? What other applications does this military technology have?

Seeing the future once is nice, but if you want to write the books of tomorrow, you're going to have to look a few steps past just the future.

[Gillhoughly]

Just write well and in such a way as to make sure people who never heard of manga know what you're talking about.

Popular as it is a LOT of S.F. readers simply won't get some references.

In Lois McMaster Bujold's Warrior's Apprentice power suits were used in one memorable scene. The heroes did some wonderfully sneaky messing around with their operations when they cracked the bad guy's codes for the things.

John Steakley did a rewrite of "Starship Troopers." I don't recall the title or if it was any good or not. It dates from the early 90s.

I was at an Anime (yes, it's likely different *sigh*) convention and most of the time had no idea what was going on...unless it had to do with Spandex abuse. (To the Anime fan-lady--and you KNOW who you are--when you reach a certain weight, age, and possess that much sag around the knees, give up the Sailor Moon mini and sit in the bar. You were scaring the kids. :eek: )

[badducky]

Incidentally, why not use powered infantry armor in normal clothes as a modern, more powerful, and easier-to-tighten girdle?

Then, your evil murderer can fry the safety overrides, and crank the knob...

[MadScientistMatt]

I think the real question isn't the technology, but how the individual soldiers will abuse the technology to serve their non-combat ends.

Very, very true! I used to work for an industrial laser manufacturer. We tried to make our lasers as abuse-proof as possible, but you never know what someone may try to do in the shop. Machinists can come up with some crazy antics when they're bored. But one story takes the cake.

The laser at this shop was meant for cutting flat metal. The machine was designed so that the laser beam exits from a cutting head and disappears into a slit in the machine. There's only an inch of laser beam that can possibly be out under normal circumstances, and it is always pointing straight down. We'd set it up that way in the hopes that operators would not be able to do anything more troublesome than attempt to slice a peanut butter sandwich in half with it.

Well, one day a bird flew into the shop where this laser was kept. And the bird didn't fly out. One of the machinists got the idea of trying to shoot down the bird with the laser. Of course, the machine was not built to do that at all.

So this operator pulled an access panel open, disabled several safety interlocks, and pulled out one of the mirrors. He used the mirror to line up a red aiming beam on the bird, then set the laser to fire a burst at full power.

And he missed. Burned a golf ball sized hole in the roof.

I can imagine somebody trying something equally weird with powered armor suits. Maybe a slam dunk contest with a basketball hoop 10 meters in the air?

[Peggy]

Just write well and in such a way as to make sure people who never heard of manga know what you're talking about.

Popular as it is a LOT of S.F. readers simply won't get some references. I just want to second this. I read a lot of science fiction, but I don't read manga* or watch anime. I'm not really a fan of military fiction per se, but I have read Starship Troopers and The Forever War, so that is what I think of when you mention battle armor. I personally don't think the technical details of battle armor are as interesting as how it is used and how it affects the soldiers wearing it. I don't want a description of a video game, I want characterization.

* Actually I've read Ranma 1/2 but there wasn't any battle armor in it :)

[MattW]

One of the things I read about in a few places (and would like to see more of) was the neural integration of armor and tech, and how it impacts the individual soldiers.

Knowing how little long term studies can catch all of the affects of military hardware, this could lead to whole companies of soldiers whose brains get fried by the wiring, or who burn out the input jack and lose their honor/prestige.

As long as it's not giant powered suits piloted by one soldier, but more man-sized battlefield enhancements, then I don't see how you'd get into manga. As a non-fan of manga, I would look for this type of read.

[MattW]

I can imagine somebody trying something equally weird with powered armor suits. Maybe a slam dunk contest with a basketball hoop 10 meters in the air?Playing chicken with the design tolerances for heat/cold/radiation?

[HConn]

I suggest looking at a lot of anime and listing all the annoying things they get wrong. How would you fix things that work great for a cartoon (like lots of bright primary colors to tell the "characters" apart or glowy energy swords) but don't make sense for your milieu.

For instance, how big do these things really need to be? Do they have any hope of using stealth, even with infra-red? How close to the operators really need to be? Why does the armor unit have to be a single piece?

What if you had a mobile camera unit to be your forward observer? What if you operated the unit from a secret bunker, kept separate from the other members of your unit so you all wouldn't get knocked out at once?

Anyway, blah blah blah. Watch some Gundam with an eye toward improving on what they do. And keep in mind what an incredibly easy radar target a big robot would be.

[Ordinary_Guy]

File under: things that go wrong.

Guy in a suit, right? One word: catheter.
The possibilities are endless.

Want some extra horror? Guy in armor gets clipped by an AP round.
New wrinkle: explosive back-pressure.

[whistlelock]

Deek, you and I need to colaborate on a story. I'm thinking UltraMan/Voltron meets Galaxy Quest.