Twilight by Stephanie Meyer

[Ambrosia]

Why do you think her books have taken off so quickly and whats their mass appeal?

I still have yet to read them BTW. Since there have been mixed reviews on her novels just wondering what others opinions are.
I don't know the marketing behind them. I don't know how the books got into the hands of the teens reading them, causing such a huge fan base. I hope however the author did it that I can figure it out and use it for my book too. :D I believe the books have mass appeal due to S. Meyer's ability to spin a story and make the world engrossing and the characters memorable.

I read the books as a reaction to an outburst by a teen girl at a restaurant. I had never heard of the Twilight series or Stephanie Meyer. I wanted to respond to this teen who made a comment along the lines of not understanding the mass appeal of Harry Potter when Twilight was a hundred times better than Harry Potter ever thought of being. Since I could not discuss the merits of a book I had not read, I decided to hold my tongue until I had read Twilight. My thought at that moment was I could then go back and tell the girl why she was wrong. I lucked out finding a paperback that was marked down and began reading. After finishing Twilight I went out and bought the remainder of the series, all in hard cover, and read the series as soon as possible. I finished one of the books within a day. I was totally engrossed in the series and sad when it ended. And, it took me weeks to be able to get my head out of that world so I could read another author's work.

I recommend reading the series to discover for yourself if it is good or not. I believed when I started the first book that I would hate it. I was pleasantly surprised.

There were a few things that drove me crazy. If you had read the series I could discuss those with you. I hate people telling me anything about a story before I read it and try not to spoil stories for anyone else. Read it and we can talk. ;)

[brainstorm77]

I don't know the marketing behind them. I don't know how the books got into the hands of the teens reading them, causing such a huge fan base. I hope however the author did it that I can figure it out and use it for my book too. :D I believe the books have mass appeal due to S. Meyer's ability to spin a story and make the world engrossing and the characters memorable.

I read the books as a reaction to an outburst by a teen girl at a restaurant. I had never heard of the Twilight series or Stephanie Meyer. I wanted to respond to this teen who made a comment along the lines of not understanding the mass appeal of Harry Potter when Twilight was a hundred times better than Harry Potter ever thought of being. Since I could not discuss the merits of a book I had not read, I decided to hold my tongue until I had read Twilight. My thought at that moment was I could then go back and tell the girl why she was wrong. I lucked out finding a paperback that was marked down and began reading. After finishing Twilight I went out and bought the remainder of the series, all in hard cover, and read the series as soon as possible. I finished one of the books within a day. I was totally engrossed in the series and sad when it ended. And, it took me weeks to be able to get my head out of that world so I could read another author's work.

I recommend reading the series to discover for yourself if it is good or not. I believed when I started the first book that I would hate it. I was pleasantly surprised.

There were a few things that drove me crazy. If you had read the series I could discuss those with you. I hate people telling me anything about a story before I read it and try not to spoil stories for anyone else. Read it and we can talk. ;)

I will read the series ... I am so curious to see why it seemed to have taken off overnight :)

[Ambrosia]

Instead of continuing with this thread, please read the link Darzian posted. (It's right here (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/...ad.php?t=37209).) You'll find all the opinions in there you need.
With all due respect, as a reader of this thread I did follow the link Darzian posted and read the first four pages of the thread (threads?), then skimmed through several more pages, and finished with the last page. Although I understand the hesitancy to allow a thread to continue about an author and work that has been so controversial on AW as this particular author and work has been, I wonder at the need to stop this thread. If the other thread was not closed, I could see pointing people to it to continue the discussion. But there can be no discussion in the other thread because it has been closed.

I have the utmost respect for those who moderate the forums. I have been a Mod on a couple other forums myself, so I understand how difficult the job can be at times. I hope you will take into consideration my concern and realize I am not trying to 'make waves' here. I am stating a concern.

[Rarri]

Instead of continuing with this thread, please read the link Darzian posted. (It's right here (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/...ad.php?t=37209).) You'll find all the opinions in there you need.

Link isn't working for me.

Not sure why they've taken off so quickly, but with the internet and the main market being teenagers, i guess the message spreads quickly. They're good books though, not literature that will necessarily survive the years, but an enjoyable read.

:)

[rljude]

I think it's because they are light and easy...a little suspense, a little romance.

I've read a couple of them and can't say that I was all that fond of them, but, like many, I was curious. It was light, easy reading, for me, it was relaxing, you didn't have to think about what you were reading at all. After a hard stressful day, that's kind of nice, like a sit-com.

I could see a pre-teen or early teen loving them for the same reason why some of us loved Shaun Cassidy or Scott Baio or whoever - it's the idea of infatuation, a young love. Their mothers are reading them to see what their daughters are so crazy about and they are perhaps getting a little flashback of all the "drama" of teenage romance. Although I'm happy to say mine never included actually vampires - only guys who sometimes acted like one :)

[katiemac]

With all due respect, as a reader of this thread I did follow the link Darzian posted and read the first four pages of the thread (threads?), then skimmed through several more pages, and finished with the last page. Although I understand the hesitancy to allow a thread to continue about an author and work that has been so controversial on AW as this particular author and work has been, I wonder at the need to stop this thread. If the other thread was not closed, I could see pointing people to it to continue the discussion. But there can be no discussion in the other thread because it has been closed.

I have the utmost respect for those who moderate the forums. I have been a Mod on a couple other forums myself, so I understand how difficult the job can be at times. I hope you will take into consideration my concern and realize I am not trying to 'make waves' here. I am stating a concern.

No waves. But I will say that since that thread was closed, others have cropped up to ask this same question and those threads have dipped into author bashing.

Instead of me saying "instead of continuing," I should have said "before continuing."

So let me try again: Before continuing this thread, I'd appreciate it if everyone would go back and check the link listed. You'll get an idea of other people's opinions about the books, as well as why that thread was locked. I think there's better hope, that way, of keeping new thread functional and informative. I realize people are very passion about these books on both ends of the spectrum, but let's try to keep this thread from boiling over.

[AnonymousWriter]

This has been discussed over and over. Do we have to start this again? :(

[brainstorm77]

This has been discussed over and over. Do we have to start this again? :(

I'm asking about the appeal it has to its readers.. Not if its good or bad....

[Ambrosia]

So let me try again: Before continuing this thread, I'd appreciate it if everyone would go back and check the link listed. You'll get an idea of other people's opinions about the books, as well as why that thread was locked. I think there's better hope, that way, of keeping new thread functional and informative. I realize people are very passion about these books on both ends of the spectrum, but let's try to keep this thread from boiling over.
Thank you for clarifying, Katiemac. :)

[brainstorm77]

No waves. But I will say that since that thread was closed, others have cropped up to ask this same question and those threads have dipped into author bashing.

Instead of me saying "instead of continuing," I should have said "before continuing."

So let me try again: Before continuing this thread, I'd appreciate it if everyone would go back and check the link listed. You'll get an idea of other people's opinions about the books, as well as why that thread was locked. I think there's better hope, that way, of keeping new thread functional and informative. I realize people are very passion about these books on both ends of the spectrum, but let's try to keep this thread from boiling over.

Agreed!

[Kathleen42]

This has been discussed over and over. Do we have to start this again? :(

Yes! Groundhog Day!

[brainstorm77]

FWIW -- Smeyer herself says the whole thing was a happy accident.

Twilight was rescued out of an agent's trash by an assistant who read it, liked it, and handed it to the agent for consideration. They hit the timing lottery perfect with it.

Thats interesting and really lucky!

[brainstorm77]

You might find this thread useful:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37209


Well after skimming through that thread I can see why it did get locked!

[Ambrosia]

Stephenie Meyer = Groundhog Day

This has been discussed over and over. Do we have to start this again? :(

Yes! Groundhog Day!
I don't know how this is pertinent to the OP or advances the thread. If you are not interested in the conversation, why post?

FWIW -- Smeyer herself says the whole thing was a happy accident.

Twilight was rescued out of an agent's trash by an assistant who read it, liked it, and handed it to the agent for consideration. They hit the timing lottery perfect with it.
I sure hope the assistant got a bonus or, better yet, a promotion. What a loss of revenue that would have been for the agent, publisher, author, bookstores, etc. if the manuscript had remained in the bin. Just goes to show agents aren't perfect.

[Rarri]

That kind of thing has happened before though, wasn't Harry Potter rejected several times before being taken up?

[brainstorm77]

That kind of thing has happened before though, wasn't Harry Potter rejected several times before being taken up?

Another series I have yet to read.

[Kathleen42]

I just find it interesting how the same Stephenie Meyer threads pop up time and time again across different websites and boards - much more so than I've seen with other authors (though perhaps the same thing happened with HP).

I left the comment because I find the continued reaction to Meyer and her work interesting - at this point, more so than the books themselves. I could have linked to (or pasted from) blog posts where I have discussed the characters and story, but that's fairly well trodden ground.

[Darzian]

The other thread starts off very informative and the discussion there is really good. It did deteriorate in an unfavorable direction towards the end.

In case you're not up to reading 1000 posts, I'll summarize some of the key concepts discussed there: (Spoilers, obviously)

1) Edward is seemingly perfect. He adores the MC, doesn't have a life of his own and spends all his time obsessing over the MC. The audience finds this romantic and entertaining and would also love to have someone do that to them.

2) Critics are astonished that there is no prelude or reason for the 'love.' Not once in all 4 books does Bella nor Edward say what exactly they love, except for Bella commenting on Edward's perfect body.

3) Critics state that the 'climaxes' are extremely anti climatic. The story builds up towards a climax but the situation is solved without any intervention on the MC's side. The MC stands out as a passive character. Some would equate this to Deus Ex Machina.

4) Fans love certain aspects of the book such as Edward watching Bella sleeping all night long, every night, and Edward bribing his sister to keep Bella more or less a prisoner for some time. I will say prisoner because she is kept against her will, though she is friendly with the person holding her. Edward pressurizes Bella into making some decisions against her will. In other words, Bella is forced to do stuff she doesn't want to satisfy Edward. When she DOES do something she actually wants to do, she feels guilty about betraying Edward's trust. While critics find this horrifying, fans find this lovable.

5) Bella does not have much of a character. The only supposed 'flaw' is that she is clumsy. The lack of detailed characteristics means that many readers can slot themselves into her role. They are able to feel more familiar with her.

6) Many of the readers have no read much before. As a result, their expectations of a book are fairly low, when compared to more experienced readers. (This is not meant to insult anyone). Many readers encourage others of a similar age group to read the book. Those encouraged readers may not have read much before, and so would be easily satisfied. Note: Not ALL fans fall into this category. There are plenty of mature fans who are avid readers.

7) Fans enjoy the sexual tension. The boy says no while the girl says yes. In practice, it's usually reversed so it was interesting.


It is generally easier to say why people dislike a book than like it. I liked reading it and got through all 4 but a more detailed analysis reveals a lot of flaws. I began as a neutral reader. I found each ending disappointing. The book escaped from the slush pile, as someone pointed out.

But ask the fanbase why they love Twilight?
The vast majority will answer:
I love Edward.

[Kathleen42]

2) Critics are astonished that there is no prelude or reason for the 'love.' Not once in all 4 books does Bella nor Edward say what exactly they love, except for Bella commenting on Edward's perfect body.



My personal theory on this is that Meyer may be better suited to writing for the screen and stage. The pacing isn't that of a 400+ page book with lots of room for character development, it is that of a 90 minute romantic comedy with 4 minutes of time devoted to a romantic montage.

The characters fall in love simply because that's what attractive girls and boys do.

Regarding #4 and the difference between critics and fans, I think age plays a huge part in this. As a 30 year old adult reader, I found the relationship troubling and told a friend to have a serious talk with his daughter about boundaries and appropriate boyfriend behavior when he told me she was reading the books.

As a thirteen year old, though, I probably would have found the whole thing terribly romantic (in fact I remember having fantasies about my crush watching me sleep),

[DamaNegra]

What makes the book appealing?

Well, for once, it's a very romantic thing. Boy sees girl, girl sees boy, they fall in love at first sight and it's the most beautiful thing ever. It also helps that the boy is the most perfect thing in the world (also, he's immortal, so he'll never get old and wrinkly and gassy and cranky, that's a huge plus). He's completely obsessed with the girl, the way some girls wish boys would obsess over them.

There's also no impediment whatsoever to the relationship. Sure, at first Edward tries to keep his distance, but he manages to do it for about one or two pages (or less? I can't recall). His family enocurages the relationship. Her family (which presumably wouldn't encourage the relationship) is simply not in the picture, so they can't possibly be an obstacle to the relationship.

Anything that threatens either the characters or the relationships is added as an afterthought (because there needs to be some drama, right?) but everything is resolved automatically, without the main characters having to do anything about it. What else could you want? You have the perfect relationship that can be threatened a million times by evil external forces, and there's nothing in the world that can break the relationship! What's even better, you don't even have to work at it!

So yeah, I can see how people find all of this alluring. But it disturbs me that Bella is a free woman wanting to be locked up in a tower by the jealous knight, which is a kind of sick spinoff on the traditional woman freed from the tower by knight in shinning armor.

[Soccer Mom]

I'm shifting this over to the Book Club for continuing discussion. As always, lets keep this a discussion and not let it turn into a bash session or this thread will meet the same fate as its predcessors.

[Ambrosia]

The other thread starts off very informative and the discussion there is really good. It did deteriorate in an unfavorable direction towards the end.

In case you're not up to reading 1000 posts, I'll summarize some of the key concepts discussed there: (Spoilers, obviously)

1) Edward is seemingly perfect. He adores the MC, doesn't have a life of his own and spends all his time obsessing over the MC. The audience finds this romantic and entertaining and would also love to have someone do that to them.
Edward is indeed flawed. I am surprised no one has spoken of his flaws after reading the series.

2) Critics are astonished that there is no prelude or reason for the 'love.' Not once in all 4 books does Bella nor Edward say what exactly they love, except for Bella commenting on Edward's perfect body.
Interestingly enough, I do know from reading the series what Edward's attraction to Bella was. Bella was atttracted first by Edward's looks. I believe if anyone spent the time to look deeper they would figure out why she developed a love for Edward. It is in the series. Not spelled out as telling, though. It is shown in bits and pieces. Is that not what an author is supposed to do?

BTW, people DO fall in love at first sight, though it is not actually first sight as it seems but first smell. Humans are still animals and have the basic instincts of animals locked in their primal brain. Sometimes that primal brain overrides the logical thought process that says, "I need to get to know this person better before I develop these feelings for him/her."

3) Critics state that the 'climaxes' are extremely anti climatic. The story builds up towards a climax but the situation is solved without any intervention on the MC's side. The MC stands out as a passive character. Some would equate this to Deus Ex Machina.
I am unfamiliar with the phrase 'Deus Ex Machina'. Although I could google it, I am wondering if you would explain what it means?

4) Fans love certain aspects of the book such as Edward watching Bella sleeping all night long, every night, and Edward bribing his sister to keep Bella more or less a prisoner for some time. I will say prisoner because she is kept against her will, though she is friendly with the person holding her. Edward pressurizes Bella into making some decisions against her will. In other words, Bella is forced to do stuff she doesn't want to satisfy Edward. When she DOES do something she actually wants to do, she feels guilty about betraying Edward's trust. While critics find this horrifying, fans find this lovable.
I found Edward loving Bella enough to protect her life even though it meant she might hate him for his efforts indeed an endearing quality. Bella's character was written as one misstep away from death, and she was not only clumsy enough to die on her own, but headstrong enough not to listen when given good advice to keep her alive. She would have had a short life if not for Edward. Yes, as a reader I found his actions lovable.

5) Bella does not have much of a character. The only supposed 'flaw' is that she is clumsy. The lack of detailed characteristics means that many readers can slot themselves into her role. They are able to feel more familiar with her.
She has more flaws than just being clumsy. It amazes me that I found a depth in these books that so many others here have missed. I would really love to have a discussion about the series without all the flame throwing I have read here regarding her work. So much has been missed.
6) Many of the readers have no read much before. As a result, their expectations of a book are fairly low, when compared to more experienced readers. (This is not meant to insult anyone). Many readers encourage others of a similar age group to read the book. Those encouraged readers may not have read much before, and so would be easily satisfied. Note: Not ALL fans fall into this category. There are plenty of mature fans who are avid readers.I believe the first sentence of this paragraph is degrading to anyone who has read and enjoyed the series. I find it peculiar to think that someone who disagrees with you (and I am not speaking of you personally, Darzian. It is a general 'you') must not be well read. I don't understand why I have heard that statement over and over again, not just in reference to S. Meyer's work but in reference to other authors work as well. Not trying to fight here, just really curious at the thought process that goes in someone's head to say that. A quick search will show that the fans of this series are not just teens, though the adults usually learned of the series initially through their kids. Thousands of women over the age of 30 are fans. Entire websites have sprung up for adult fans of these books. Experience and age is not the issue perceived in liking this series.

7) Fans enjoy the sexual tension. The boy says no while the girl says yes. In practice, it's usually reversed so it was interesting.I agree. :)


It is generally easier to say why people dislike a book than like it. I liked reading it and got through all 4 but a more detailed analysis reveals a lot of flaws. I began as a neutral reader. I found each ending disappointing. The book escaped from the slush pile, as someone pointed out.
I began as a hostile reader and turned into a fan. Yes, the book escaped from the slush pile. Had it, however, been as horrible as some people say it is no one would have bothered with it. It would not have been the smashing success it has been, there would not have been a series because the first book would have fallen completey flat, and there would not be the fan base there is now. And, with the selection of books out for YA's these days, kids are not unread and they are not idiots. Sorry for the brief rant. It irks me that so many peole paint kids and teens as idiots who wouldn't know a good, or bad, story if it bit them.

But ask the fanbase why they love Twilight?
The vast majority will answer:
I love Edward.
It may be one of the answers. However, there is much more value in the books than just Edward's character. But, yes, I loved Edward too. :D

Thank you for taking the time for the synopsis of that thread. I appreciated the breakdown of points. The length of the thread was indeed daunting.

[Tanya Egan Gibson]

I think I might have posted this to an earlier Meyer thread, but in case I didn't (and because I think it directly addresses the OP's question), there was an interesting article about the appeal of the Twilight series in The Atlantic. Here's the link: http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200812/twilight-vampires

[Ambrosia]

there was an interesting article about the appeal of the Twilight series in The Atlantic.
Thank you for the link. I found the article to be quite good. I think this is the best article I have read on the appeal of the Twilight series.

[DamaNegra]

Edward is indeed flawed. I am surprised no one has spoken of his flaws after reading the series.

I'd very much like to see a list of Edward's supposed flaws. Sure, he was written out as if he had flaws, but those flaws rarely affect the storyline. So let's see. (disclaimer, I've only read the first book, so that's what I'm going to be talking about here)

It seems a given that Edward's first flaw is that he wants to eat Bella. However, there's no struggle here. He flees to Alaska and then returns and hasn't been back for more than a couple of hours when he's all over Bella, trying to catch her attention. But nothing happens other than Edward obsessing over this flaw of his. He never acts on it, not even for a second. They go to the forest, with no one in the whole town knowing where they'd be, and I expected something great to happen. The girl and the monster, alone. That's the perfect moment for something to happen, yet all we get is Edward shinning (or is it sparkling?) on the meadow. I'd be more eager to consider this a viable flaw if he'd attacked her at some point, even if in the end he didn't harm her. Otherwise, it's just bluff.

Let's see, another flaw. His hot temper. Again, he never acts on it, only mentions it. His hot temper is never a factor and when it does manifest itself, he manages to control it perfectly. Here, I'll quote directly from the book (context: he's just saved her from potential rapists... deux ex machina, anyone?):

But I felt utterly safe and, for the moment, totally unconcerned about where we were going. I stared at his face in profound relief, relief that went beyond my sudden deliverance. I studied his flawless features in the limited light, waiting for my breath to return to normal, until it occurred to me that his expression was murderously angry.

"Are you okay?" I asked, surprised at how hoarse my voice sounded.

"No," he said curtly, and his tone was livid.

I sat in silence, watching his face while his blazing eyes stared straight ahead, until the car came to a sudden stop. I glanced around, but it was too dark to see anything beside the vague outline of dark trees crowding the roadside. We weren't in town anymore.

"Bella?" he asked, his voice tight, controlled.

"Yes?" My voice was still rough. I tried to clear my throat quietly.

"Are you all right?" He still didn't look at me, but the fury was plain on his face.

"Yes," I croaked softly.

"Distract me, please," he ordered.

"I'm sorry, what?"

He exhaled sharply.

"Just prattle about something unimportant until I calm down," he clarified, closing his eyes and pinching the bridge of his nose with his thumb and forefinger.

That's all for a display of anger. We've been told so much about Edward's fiery temper that I was seriously expecting more. After all, the woman he loves almost got gang-raped by 4 guys. That just doesn't seem right. Also a fiery temper, combined with his eagerness to eat Bella, could become a great plot point. But it doesn't happen, because neither flaw plays a part in the plot.

What other flaws can be found in Edward? Driving too fast? He's never going to crash, so there's another interesting plot point wasted. What else? That he's a creepy stalker? People find that cute, though I don't know why. That he's jealous? Does he ever act upon his jealousy, other than passive-agressiveness? Another plot point wasted.

Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

Interestingly enough, I do know from reading the series what Edward's attraction to Bella was. Bella was atttracted first by Edward's looks. I believe if anyone spent the time to look deeper they would figure out why she developed a love for Edward. It is in the series. Not spelled out as telling, though. It is shown in bits and pieces. Is that not what an author is supposed to do?

BTW, people DO fall in love at first sight, though it is not actually first sight as it seems but first smell. Humans are still animals and have the basic instincts of animals locked in their primal brain. Sometimes that primal brain overrides the logical thought process that says, "I need to get to know this person better before I develop these feelings for him/her."

The problem I found with this love at first sight is how quickly it develops into a sick obsession on both parts. Bella is willing to die (both by being killed and/or turned into a vampire) because she just fell in love with some guy she doesn't even know. In my opinion, that's just not right. Never. Not at all.

My other problem with this is how the relationship develops. They don't do things together. They don't really talk. After having that initial attraction, there is a series of question-and-answer sessions that sound more like jeopardy than a date. The relationship doesn't flow, it doesn't build. The author treats them as though the only thing they needed is the initial attraction, and then everything works itself out perfectly. Neither of the characters have a single flaw that irks the other. They both find each other really cute and oh so lovable. Yet, even the most deluded in-love persons would find an annoying flaw in their loved one, even if they find a way to justify it.

So there's really no relationship at play here. Only love at first sight. But that love at first sight is supposedly so strong it will completely substitute a real relationship. She loves Edward's looks, but what about his personality? Edward loves Bella's smell, but what about her as a person? That doesn't even play out in the book. Why? That's what bothers me. I'm a firm believer that yes, love at first sight does exist, but something else needs to be there to help that love at first sight become true, enduring love. Otherwise, it will die when the attraction dies.

On the other hand, it's really handy that they're immortal. They don't change, they don't grow old. Therefore, the attraction doesn't need to die. There doesn't need to be anything else in lieu of a relationship.


I am unfamiliar with the phrase 'Deus Ex Machina'. Although I could google it, I am wondering if you would explain what it means?

A deus ex machina is an external element that resolves the conflict without following its internal logic. Think of Edward popping in, out of nowhere, right at the last moment, to save Bella from the rapists. Think of the vampire clan popping in, out of nowhere, right at the last moment, just as Bella is about the get killed by the vampire. It's just too convenient to be a real resolution. Bella never solves her problems, she never really has to face any challenge. The vampire gods will always pop in, out of nowhere, right at the last moment, to fix everything for her.

I found Edward loving Bella enough to protect her life even though it meant she might hate him for his efforts indeed an endearing quality. Bella's character was written as one misstep away from death, and she was not only clumsy enough to die on her own, but headstrong enough not to listen when given good advice to keep her alive. She would have had a short life if not for Edward. Yes, as a reader I found his actions lovable.

First, Bella's clumsiness. That's just not loveable. That's plain stupid. Meyers put such an emphasis on her clumsiness (which, along with her stubbornnes that never really plays a part in the plot (see Edward's flaws), is her only flaw) that I frankly got tired of it. I just wanted her to die and get on with it. But enough ranting.

Edward. Yes, I know how anyone would find that endearing and desirable. However, we all now that Bella is never going to get angry at him, she's never going to question his actions or yell at him for having doing something. She's just going to be so relieved to see him again she will automatically forgive him and forget he ever did anything. So any tension that could have derived from this instantly vanishes. What's the point, then? More artificial tension.

Also, I think having written Bella as "one misstep away from death" is just lazy writing. Her clumsiness takes the place of a real plot. The only thing that keeps the book moving forward is her clumsiness. She's clumsy so she needs to be rescued. What about tension? What about real challenges? Nope, it's all artificial to give readers a false sense of conflict. Because we all know that, no matter how clumsy Bella is, nothing's ever going to happen to her. And, while most people find this comforting, I find it boring. I want a surprise every now and then. Sadly, this book holds no surprises for me.

She has more flaws than just being clumsy.

Her other flaws? Being stubborn, stuck-up and sometimes rude. But does it matter at all? Her flaws, other than stubbornnes and clumsiness, are there just for the sake of it, but they never play a part in the plot or the story. And, well, I think I've already said enough about the other flaws.

I believe the first sentence of this paragraph is degrading to anyone who has read and enjoyed the series. I find it peculiar to think that someone who disagrees with you (and I am not speaking of you personally, Darzian. It is a general 'you') must not be well read. I don't understand why I have heard that statement over and over again, not just in reference to S. Meyer's work but in reference to other authors work as well. Not trying to fight here, just really curious at the thought process that goes in someone's head to say that.

I don't think people who like these books are necessarily unread. However, I can't also fathom anyone actually liking these books, even though such people exists. To each their own, etc. I'm just here to try and clarify why I hated these books, and why I've said the things I've said about them. I hope that this detailed analysis helps people understand where I'm coming from.

I began as a hostile reader and turned into a fan. Yes, the book escaped from the slush pile.

I began as a curious reader turned hostile.

[katiemac]

Ambrosia, I find your post interesting because it's the first time I've seen a fan write out why they liked the books beyond "superficial" reasons. (Loving Edward.) Although I don't see the same things you did, it does help me understand the appeal.

Bella's character was written as one misstep away from death, and she was not only clumsy enough to die on her own, but headstrong enough not to listen when given good advice to keep her alive. She would have had a short life if not for Edward.

This is one point, though, that doesn't make sense to me. I didn't see Bella as headstrong, but instead rather dense. And she's a step from death because of the relationship with Edward. I've seen their relationship compared to other moral/immortal storylines, mainly Buffy and Angel from the Whedon series. But in that case, Buffy and Angel each were always a step away from death, but not because of each other. It was a commonality of their relationship that allowed them to help each other, not a cause of the relationship.

Like Dama said, I felt a lot of things were convenient problems or obstacles, but everything worked out. For example--SPOILERS--they have a child together. The very idea of them having a child is a problem, and much of the last book is them discussing how horrible it is that someone will try to harm the child. But, luckily, the child is "magical" and so beautiful and perfect that, just by touching her, you'll see the truth. Not to mention that Bella suddenly develops powers perfect for protecting her family when no one else possibly could, although it turns out her family never needed protection in the first place.

I was very disappointed, because it seemed Meyer did have some interesting plot points to discuss, but the characters never ended up needing to go through any real conflict to solve those issues.

[MumblingSage]

I paged through a book on Robert Pattinson, and the insight I remember was that part of the reason for the large fandom is the fun of the group experiance. I think I understand that. I belong to the Twilight anti-fandom for the same reason: I like ripping books apart with other people who like ripping books apart. I'm rather apathetic about the Twilight series in general, but get me with friends and I'm a raving maniac. I think fans are like that in the opposite direction: they like it, but they become raving fans only with others.

[katiemac]

I paged through a book on Robert Pattinson, and the insight I remember was that part of the reason for the large fandom is the fun of the group experiance. I think I understand that. I belong to the Twilight anti-fandom for the same reason: I like ripping books apart with other people who like ripping books apart. I'm rather apathetic about the Twilight series in general, but get me with friends and I'm a raving maniac. I think fans are like that in the opposite direction: they like it, but they become raving fans only with others.

Part of that could be very true--it also explains why the appeal has multiplied to begin with. I know people who do not read and are passing these around like wildfire. They enjoy it, obviously, but I also wonder if it's enjoying a book that is what makes it more explosive than, say, liking a movie. It's also more tangible--you can always have it in your hands, and it simply hasn't "gone away" like film does after the box office runs out. I equate this to film only because it's what the majority of the target audience generally spends more time on than reading. Again, not an insult to anyone, just my observations of who is liking the story.

[Rarri]

Argh. Stupid reply eating computer.

Try again. This is perhaps a good example of how different people gain something different from books; i'm not a teenager and i'm not in love with Edward but i still enjoyed reading the books; they offered something different and i admired Meyer for writing the books she wanted to and not bowing to other demands. To use another analogy: some people live on junk food, others are able to have really healthy diets but still indulge.

[Darzian]

Ambrosia, I'll address the issues.

Deus Ex Machina is discussed here (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124170). I'm sure you'll get a thorough understanding of what it is from that thread. I strongly recommend reading the entire 3 pages because every writer should know what Deus Ex is- as it should be utterly avoided.

Twilight (ETA: this is the first book), virtually has no plot. The greater part is spent focusing on the romantic element (which I don't think counts as plot) and some sort of struggle is introduced only at the very end.

A feature I find greatly disappointing (and this is what made me dislike the books very much) is the lack of Bella action at climaxes. She doesn't do anything. The ending to each book is stolen by someone else. I only remember 3 of the endings (that alone should reveal something because I do not forget the content of a book I have read and enjoyed for at least a year).

Twilight ending- Bella in the clutches of an evil vampire. What does she do? Nothing. Edward comes to save her. I find this extremely disappointing because it makes Bella a very passive character. I generally wants my MCs to drive the story. Here, it is reversed.

Ending where they are in Italy- It's book 2 or 3- Bella in potential danger again. May get eaten/killed by Volturi. This time who saves her? Alice. Again, she doesn't do anything.

Breaking Dawn- possibly the worst of all, IMHO, due to several issues. The ending- giant battle set up. Alice comes and saves the day. This is okay, somewhat, because she ran off earlier in the book and we suspected that she may save the ending. But the ending was anti climatic nevertheless. A huge battle was set up but nothing happens. Obviously I don't want everyone to die, but I would have liked a more interesting ending.

I will elaborate on other aspects:

It is difficult to like a book when you dislike the MC. I dislike Bella. One primary reason is book 2. When Edward returns, she runs to his side and stands against her father when Charlie (rightly) rejects Edward for causing his daughter pain. She stands against him. I find this very annoying.

Pregnancy matter in Book 4- even Meyer can't give a satisfactory explanation. Edward cannot impregnate Bella. Hence all of Book 4 collapses.

Jacob imprinting on Nessie- I found this to be a very weak method of resolving the love triangle. Meyer tried to give everything a happy ending. Well, I don't want that!

Another important factor: Every apparent sacrifice becomes redundant. What was the obstacle to the marriage? Her mother's reaction. She spends chapters and chapters wondering how she would react and how is that point resolve? Her mum calls and says everything's fine etc. etc.... Every interesting plot point is resolved like this. It's boring because I was expecting the characters to do something about it.

There's more but I don't wish to crash the server with too long a post. I look forward to continuing this discussion- I appreciate that you're standing up for a story you like. ;)

[Darzian]

Ambrosia, I find your post interesting because it's the first time I've seen a fan write out why they liked the books beyond "superficial" reasons. (Loving Edward.) Although I don't see the same things you did, it does help me understand the appeal.

Absolutely.

[Ambrosia]

Darzian and all...

Thanks for the replies and I look forward to discussing the books in more detail as well. I may have a unique viewpoint, who knows? I have been ill the last few days and I am unable at this time to concentrate on critiquing the series. I hope you will understand. I am not wimping out. ;)

There is also a hesitancy on my part to discuss the series in this thread because Brainstorm has not yet read any books in this series. I am a firm believer in not spoiling a book for someone by revealing too much of the storyline. Perhaps this would be better discussed in another thread? *feels the mods shudder at the thought* :tongue

Give me a couple days, please. I have to get over this bug. My whole world is swimming right now. I can't possibly concentrate on this when I can barely make my way from bed to chair and back.

Thanks.

[brainstorm77]

Darzian and all...

Thanks for the replies and I look forward to discussing the books in more detail as well. I may have a unique viewpoint, who knows? I have been ill the last few days and I am unable at this time to concentrate on critiquing the series. I hope you will understand. I am not wimping out. ;)

There is also a hesitancy on my part to discuss the series in this thread because Brainstorm has not yet read any books in this series. I am a firm believer in not spoiling a book for someone by revealing too much of the storyline. Perhaps this would be better discussed in another thread? *feels the mods shudder at the thought* :tongue

Give me a couple days, please. I have to get over this bug. My whole world is swimming right now. I can't possibly concentrate on this when I can barely make my way from bed to chair and back.

Thanks.

Oh, don't worry about that. I'm going to read the series no matter what :) I'm liking the disscussion here in this thread.

[brainstorm77]

Just a side note and remember I have not read the series... I know a number of older women who are reading this series and think the books and Edward are wonderful....my sister included.

[darkchild]

I've read all four of her books (although the fourth disturbed me a bit and i haven't gone back to that mess) and being a teenager myself, it's the storytelling. girls luv the image of a knight in shining armor, the unattainable guy (Edward). Some girls have dreamed of being damsels in distress (Bella). I read it partly to pass the time and to actually have a fantasy kind-of-guy in my life. what can i say? i'm single. there's no harm in dreaming... :)

[DamaNegra]

girls luv the image of a knight in shining armor, the unattainable guy (Edward).

I'd be glad if you told me exactly why Edward is unattainable. It certainly didn't seem that way to me, at least from chapter 4 (or something, it wasn't more than 3 chapters) onward.

[Zoombie]

There is this bizarre thing that I call the SMEffect: It is when a story has awesome side characters, where everything AROUND the main characters is great...but the mains just SUCK all joy from LIFE.

None is clearer than watching the Twilight movie or reading the Twilight book.

I watched the movie and...the SUPPORTING actors were so cool. I loved Jacob and the kids at school, even though they had this...bizarre habit of falling MADLY in love with Bella for NO REASON and AT THE DROP OF A HAT!

But at least they were likable and...human.

Then...on walks Edward and instantly, I want to gouge out my eyes.

GAH! The lines between Edward and Bella are so stilted and so forced that it...sucks the joy from life just watching the two. Here we are, supposed to buy that these two people are going to fall madly in love?

Even when two characters HATE each other in some books I've read...at least they don't act like two cardboard cutouts with people behind them, pushing them together and making 'kissing' noises. That's what we call chemistry. It means that the characters interact well with one another.

For example...Johnny Depp and Orlando Bloom had awesome chemistry in Pirates of the Caribbean. Even though their characters were antagonistic towards one another for 99% of the film, they still interacted well with one another. They were INTERESTING.

Another, more booky, example would beeee...hmm...<tries to think of a non-obscure reference>

Shit, whatever, I'll go with the obscure one: The relationship between the two main characters in...say...AH!

I know! The relationship between Ezr Vihn and Qiwi Lin Lisolet in A Deepness in the Sky is VERY strained for 95% of the book. They are often quite antagonistic towards one another. But they always interact in a way that is interesting to watch. They have CHEMISTRY.

And in the end, they fall in love. And its adorable and my favorite romance ever ever ever.

Um...right. I don't want to turn this thread into a "Why A Deepness in the Sky is flipping awesome", so moving right along:

Edward and Bella don't have chemistry.

They have a creepy, disturbing, and all around FALSE romance based off Bella's smell and Edward's sparkly prettiness.

Its disgusting, imo, and I hate it with the fiery passion of a thousand foreman grills.

So, in short, I have no idea why this book is liked by so many.















Though I *might* be a little biased, seeing as how my saying is "Nothing brings down a good werewolf story than the inclusion of a vampire."

[Rarri]

Perhaps i'm going against the grain here, but whilst i enjoyed the book, i thought the film was terrible.

[Zoombie]

The film was terrible.

[Zipotes]

I'm in the minority here. But, I loved the series (except the last book). I can't explain why exactly. The romance, the narration, the way it was written?? But, I'm in my 30's and most of my friends and female relatives, also in 30's or mid-20's, are in love with the books as well.

[darkchild]

To try and answer ur question DamaNegra, to a certain extent Edward was unattainable, yes, in the first few chapters or so. The scene in twilight where they are in the italian restaurant and he reveals his uncertainty about what's appropriate between them- that was Edward's breaking point. Previously, he wanted Bella to hate him, fear him. Stubborn Bella OTOH wanted to reach out to him when he wanted to flee.

[kristie911]

I didn't care for the first book but buckled to peer pressure and continued with the series. In the end, I loved it. Some of the writing annoyed the crap out of me but the story was good.

I'd much rather read a so-so writer telling a good story than an excellent writer with a crappy story.

[darrtwish]

For me, it's the characters and not really even Bella and Edward. It's the rest of the Cullens especially Jasper&Alice and the relationship they have. Also, I've read a lot of amazing books but it's been forever since I've completely gotten lost in a book and forgotten about the entire world. Reading those books (even though I've read each of them about 20 times, no exaggeration) kind of puts me into a trance and nothing can pull me away from the world that I've submerged myself in until I say so.

[darrtwish]

The film was terrible.

Zoomb, it was but if you compare the book to the movie you can blame it all on Melissa Rosenberg. She's a horrible screenwriter and completely murdered it, chopping it into pieces and then defiling it even more. Plus, some of the blame can be put on Summit for not giving the director free-range, Catherine Hardwicke is an idnie director, and when she's given free range she does a spectacular job. But most of the actors did phenomenal jobs with the shitty script they were given.

[scarletpeaches]

Comparing the film to the book I see they were as bad as each other.

[BlueLucario]

I just finished writing this Twilight review on my Neo. I just wanted to give you this before I submit it to Amazon.

Rating: 2-3/5

Why?: This book left me with so many questions. I am not sure if I am part of the YA audience. (I’m a 19 year old college student.)

Twilight was a great book overall. And I fell in love with Edward for a reason I can’t explain. It did keep me turning pages, until I stopped at chapter 20.


I’m sorry, but these parts completely threw me off.

1.)The scene where Edward sparkled. I couldn’t stop laughing at the thought of seeing someone sparkle. It was probably the second most awkward part of the book. And how does sparkling benefit a vampire? Are these so called animals that Edward eats somehow attracted to him?


During that one scene, Bella could not shut up about how pretty Edward was. She kept repeating herself of how stone cold he felt. How god-like he was. Okay, I get it, how many times does she have to explain it?

2.)The baseball scene threw me off the most. In fact, I grew very bored of it, It would be interesting if Bella participated in it. It felt like Bella was some sort of commentary(a very boring one) for a vampire world series game. This was the part where I was about to close this book. Just when I was about to drop Twilight for good, something interesting happens. So I kept reading. The three nomadic vampires were interesting for a moment. Out of nowhere there’s suspense, which not only confused me, but also angered me. Up until now there was no plot. Why did the author keep me waiting until the end of the book for something good to happen? Why did she slap on an action scene without warning or foreshadowing. (If the author used Alice’s future seeing abilities as a foreshadowing tool, then that’s pretty much lazy writing right there.)I threw twilight against the wall, trying to figure out the answer. During the hunting scene, I begun to hate the Cullen family for being so stupid. If Alice could see into the future and saw those dangerous vampires coming? Why didn’t she warn Edward? The whole thing would have been avoided if Edward never brought bella to the meadow in the first place.(And what annoys me more, Edward blamed Bella for smelling so good. That’s like blaming a rape victim for wearing a mini skirt) Right there, I lost all respect for Edward and the whole Cullen family. At the end, the character who was the least stupid of all was Bella. She was slightly more sympathetic at the end. The rest of the characters were very forced and melodramatic.

Although the book was an okay read, Meyer could seriously use some work in her writing. For starters, everything in her story has to make sense.

1.)How old is Edward? 108 years old? Why do 100 year old vampires go to school every year? If they are like little undead hermits locked away from society, why would they worry about the police showing up at their doorsteps?
2.)Although I loved Edward until the end, I can’t help but wonder: Why does Bella love him? Besides him being so godly gorgeous. Why does she love him even after the times, where he watches her sleep every night? She should be scared of the fact that a complete psycho is watching her sleep, not flattered. Why wasn’t she scared of him? Is she fond of the fact that this person feeds even on animals? Although in the book, it sounds romantic, but it’s not. Not only is this creepy, it’s illegal. Why wasn’t Bella scared of someone who could potentially kill her?


A few more things she could have made an improvement on.

1.)Characterization: The characters from the start felt very one dimensional. The Cullen family doesn’t feel “vampire” to me. And Bella was just a plain normal generic young girl. There’s nothng really interesting about a character like that. Charlie, who is a police officer felt a bit flat. Are Police officers supposed to be protective of their kids? He’s actually lenient with this daughter even after he discovers that she had a boyfriend. When I was 17, my parents were always on my case when it comes to men. I had to date men behind their backs. The character reactions are not really consistent with a situation

2. Plot(And suspension of disbelief):Okay, the problem is there’s no plot. Just that plain(and annoying) girl falls head over heels in love with a stalker who has a difficult time staying away from her. Um, has Edward considered getting psychological HELP? It just looks to me like he’s not even TRYING to avoid her. Why couldn’t Bella call the cops? Or at least tell Charlie, who would have gotten the vampire arrested for stalking.

I’m currently reading New Moon, and let me tell you. There are so many grammatical errors in the book that it’s sad.


Before I submit this, is there anything you think I should add to this review? If so, please tell me. If you would like to refute this review please tell me.

[BlueLucario]

Sorry about the grammar errors. I just typed that on my Neo. :ROFL:

I just stopped at chapter 20.

Did I mention how annoying Edward was? He keeps telling Bella to stay away from him for being dangerous.(Edward, shut up. Walk in public with a paper bag on your head and put US out of misery.) How could Bella stay away from him if he keeps following her around? Why is bella so interested in someone who hunts from time to time?

[Devil Ledbetter]

I am surprised by your negative review of Twilight; given your avatar I assumed you loved it.

You might want to put a "spoilers" alert at the beginning of your review. You've phrased a lot of your opinions as questions. There is nothing technically wrong with that, but it might make a stronger review if you changed at least some of them to statements.

Examples:

Okay, I get it, how many times does she have to explain it?

Okay, I get it. She doesn't have to keep explaining it.


Why does Bella love him? Besides him being so godly gorgeous.

The only thing Bella seems to love about him is that he is godly gorgeous.


Are Police officers supposed to be protective of their kids?

I'd expect a police officer to be more protective of his kid.

Your argument about a 17-year-old being allowed to date and your personal anecdote about having to sneak around, concluding Charlie didn't adequately care for Bella, fell flat for me. It's not at all unusual for caring parents to allow kids 16 and up to date. Forbidding teens that age to date will only put them in a position to sneak around, then you don't know where they are, what they're doing or whether it's time to haul them down to Planned Parenthood and get them some birth control. ;)

I think your general assessment of Twilight is spot on!

[BlueLucario]

Your argument about a 17-year-old being allowed to date and your personal anecdote about having to sneak around, concluding Charlie didn't adequately care for Bella, fell flat for me. It's not at all unusual for caring parents to allow kids 16 and up to date. Forbidding teens that age to date will only put them in a position to sneak around, then you don't know where they are, what they're doing or whether it's time to haul them down to Planned Parenthood and get them some birth control. ;)

I think your general assessment of Twilight is spot on!
I mean. Should parents be on their child's case on dating? Charlie should be a bit shocked don't you think? I first dated when I was 14. My mom was sort of okay with it, after a while.

[BlueLucario]

What I actually loved about this book is that I can actually escape into the book's world, realistic or not. Get out of reality once in a while. I sort of imagined myself standing near a "vampire"

That's probably the one quality I want from this book. A way to escape from reality. This is the first time since I read Harry Potter that this ever happened to me.

[Devil Ledbetter]

I mean. Should parents be on their child's case on dating? Charlie should be a bit shocked don't you think? I don't get why Charlie should be shocked that Bella is dating, or get "on her case" about it. She's 17 and mature for her age. She decides to move to Forks for the sake of her mother's happiness, prompts her dad to look after his health and takes care of the house and meals without being asked to. She does well in school, holds down a job, is level headed (except for the part about wanting to throw her mortality away - but Charlie isn't aware of that situation).

Dating is a normal and socially appropriate activity for a girl of her age and maturity level.

There is a lot that is "off base" about Twilight and you did a good job pointing out several of those things in your review. I just don't happen to agree* that Charlie's laid-back approach to her dating portrays him as uncaring. I think, having been out of her life for so many years he doesn't feel he it's his place to order her around.

However, in book 3 he does try to forbid her to date Edward. He morphs from laid-back Charlie into an unforgiving, control freak prick. As a character, he really gets abused (by the author, not the story.) Since Meyers began by portraying him as a hands-off guy who trusts Bella's judgment and respects her maturity, the alteration of his character (thrown in for the sake of tension/drama) is unforgivable. Meyers tries to cover for this (Charlie is upset that Edward hurt Bella in book 2) but it's too fundamental a shift in his character to explain away.


*It's your review, though, so don't worry whether I agree.

[selkn.asrai]

Make up your mind, Blue. Harsh reviews don't vibe well with, "Overall, Twilight was a great book." I was utterly thrown off. Elaborate on what you thought was great about it (escapism) to even out your criticisms or your judgment will be considered unreliable.

If you don't tweak that to make more sense, you'll get a lot of flames on Amazon from rabid tweens. Cave crazies.

[Clair Dickson]

Make up your mind, Blue. Harsh reviews don't vibe well with, "Overall, Twilight was a great book." I was utterly thrown off.

Agreed... maybe go with, "it started out as a great book, but then by Chapter 20, I could no longer use it as a fun escape. There were just too many problems."

[KikiteNeko]

You seem to be very conflicted about this book, and for a long period of time. Maybe it's time to read something new...

[BlueLucario]

Heh, I did.

I'm reading OSC's speaker for the dead, 1984, and new moon.

[scarletpeaches]

Heh, I did.

I'm reading OSC's speaker for the dead, 1984, and new moon.

Oh dear.

[BlueLucario]

Agreed... maybe go with, "it started out as a great book, but then by Chapter 20, I could no longer use it as a fun escape. There were just too many problems."

Or, "The inconsistencies pulled me out of the story."

Oh dear.
Either I read it, or it's a waste of $10.

[Devil Ledbetter]

Either I read it, or it's a waste of $10.Not much point in throwing perfectly good time away after perfectly good money. Although I'll admit I've enjoyed the ability to lampoon these books that reading them has given me. But not enough to slog through Breaking Dawn.

[BlueLucario]

From what I see. New Moon isn't so bad. At least it keeps my attention, which is the only thing I expect from any book.

[Alitriona]

I know people who hunt animals and it doesn't put me off them. I don't, but I wouldn't presume it would put a young girl off. Lots of people slaughter and then eat their own animals, maybe not raw but hey, Edward is a vampire.The sparkly vampire thing I think came from the fact they were hard as stone, granite and marble both sparkle in the sun. It was another reference to the hardness of their skin.

[Toothpaste]

As far as the sparkly thing goes. I get why it's there. But think about it for a moment. Think about how much more powerful it would be if Edward says to Bella, "Are you sure you want to see me in the sunlight?" And when he steps into it suddenly he physically becomes the monster he is supposed to be. Or he becomes the age he truly is. Basically he becomes something horrific to look at. And DESPITE that Bella chooses to stay with him. She is the one person willing to look beyond that monstrous exterior to the soul within. It's easy to want to stay with someone dangerous if they are hot. Not as much when they're not.

To tell someone, "I'm warning you, what you are about to see is not normal, I never show anyone this" and then revealing the deep dark secret is . . . that you sparkle, lacks any oomph. Not only that, but that in your sparkling you are even more beautiful than normal . . . where's the risk in that? Where's the tension in that?

I get why Meyer didn't do my idea, she couldn't bear the idea to make Edward "ugly" as she herself is in love with him. It also helps the teen girls and their fantasies. And that's cool. But personally, it is a totally wasted opportunity verging on the ridiculous.

[rugcat]

I get why Meyer didn't do my idea, she couldn't bear the idea to make Edward "ugly" as she herself is in love with him. It also helps the teen girls and their fantasies. And that's cool. But personally, it is a totally wasted opportunity verging on the ridiculous.I agree completely. But maybe then it wouldn't have sold a gazillion books.

[wannawrite]

Toothpaste....thank you for your keen observations. You are right, it would have made a better book. But, then, if she HAD made him the least bit ugly, my 15yr old would not have spent every penny she has earned in the last six months on posters, books, movies, pins, necklaces, etc...

Smart woman, that Meyers chick.

[Toothpaste]

To be honest I don't see it as Meyer being smart. I see her being more of a fan girl. I would see it as being smart if she had thought to herself "Now I could make this character ugly, but then my market would shrink significantly." But I truly don't think she ever thought that way. Meyer was writing a book for herself (as I always recommend to people to do), and it just so happens her tastes are shared with a very broad market.

As to my sparkle idea, I still would make Edward hot. Just when he was in the sunlight, he'd be monstrous.

But yeah, not sure how the girls would have liked that. Personally though, while she might have lost some readers, considering most of the time he would still look gorgeous, I wonder if it would affect sales that deeply. Eh, we'll never know . . .

[BlueLucario]

But yeah, not sure how the girls would have liked that. Personally though, while she might have lost some readers, considering most of the time he would still look gorgeous, I wonder if it would affect sales that deeply. Eh, we'll never know . . .

Actually, I was sort of thinking of Beauty of the Beast. If Meyer portrayed edward the same way as "The Bea.st", I don't think it would make a difference.

[wannawrite]

After posting, I asked my daughter what she thought of the conversation, and if a sometimes ugly Edward would turn her away. She said nope. Not if Rob Pattinson still played him when he was 'pretty'.

So, there you have it. Out of the mouth of a 15 yr. old.

[BlueLucario]

After posting, I asked my daughter what she thought of the conversation, and if a sometimes ugly Edward would turn her away. She said nope. Not if Rob Pattinson still played him when he was 'pretty'.

So, there you have it. Out of the mouth of a 15 yr. old.
I don't know if I count as a target audience. I'm 19.

I never really pictured Edward as pretty. Bella's descriptions didn't really get through to me at all, (but it was still very annoying.) Just a type of guy who loves to pull your strings. And I love guys like that.

[Stlight]

Beast, from the TV series, the movie, the old fairy tale, was much more involved with the world than Edward. Beast was into self-sacrifice, I'm not seeing that in Edward. Edward enthralls Bella, then tells her he's bad for her, he has to leave for her sake. Yep, I think you got it with "Just a type of guy who loves to pull your strings. "

There are plenty of those to go around.

It was coolthat you noticed and mentioned the illegal hunting. You might add that his hunting was out of season, if he was hunting something legal during certain seasons to hunt. There are other animals it is never legal to hunt - cats, dogs, your neightbor's cows, horses, chickens...

[Alitriona]

Better illegal animal hunting than human hunting. Anyway Bella mentions in the book that he was hunting out of season and isn't a vampire hunting more like an animal hunting an animal for food than a human hunting illegally for sport?

[brainstorm77]

I finally read the first book and enjoyed it :)

[Banango Cheesecake]

Hm...I don't want to be attacked, but since you guys are stating your opinions I might as well give it a go.

I tried not to read Twilight since I knew that there was a one in two chance of me hating it. I didn't want to get my head bashed in by one of my classmates for hating the book. (Yes, they are kind of rabid and yes, they're not happy with me right now)

But I read the book because my friend persuaded me to.

To put it simply, it took me a long time to get into the first few chapters. I didn't particularly care for Bella. She was whiny and that annoyed me. And I was stuck in her perspective. Hm...not a very good start.

Anyway, Edward seemed a little inconsistent and a bit too perfect, but otherwise, he was bearable.

And then I hit the meadow scene.

Until then, I thought the book wasn't as bad as others were making it out to be. And when I read the meadow scene, I just laughed like crazy. My brother thought I was nuts. It was so...funny for some reason. So corny, so cheesy...so everything that shouldn't be.

But I do like Jacob, honest. I just didn't finish reading the first book due to the meadow scene that others love so much.

[Anahid21]

Sorry, I didn't know where to post this among the several dozens of Twilight threads.

A friend of mine who is a fan of the series keeps gushing over it. I come with my arsenal full of bad reviews I've read on personal blogs, Amazon and AW. Still, she cracks all my defences by simply stating, "Have you read the books?" and since my answer is no she claims I have no right to dis them.

This has made me consider reading the books, so we would at least be on even grounds. But every time I think about it I remember the dreadful things I saw in the reviews: Vampires walking in daylight, an abusive immortal boyfriend, an overly obsessed, clumsy heroine, grown men "imprinting toddlers" *shudder.* Could someone please tell me if I should give it a try? Do you think my head would explode? Or is there something worthwhile in the books after all? Or perhaps all these assumptions are wrong and I shouldn't literally judge a book by its cover?

[kuwisdelu]

If you don't want to spend the money, just check the first book out from the library or borrow it from your friend. No reason not to try to read them unless you just plain don't want to. But if you're tempted or just want to try to appease your friend, go ahead, start reading.

Obviously quite difficult to do, but try to go in with an open mind. If you don't like the story or the writing, you can always stop reading and say you tried. And if you end up enjoying it... well, there you go.

[dpaterso]

Reading Twilight didn't do me any harm <twitch> :)

The only time I heard of a book killing people was in The Name Of The Rose.

Try it, you might like it.

-Derek

[Moonfish]

I read the first one, because I write YA and fantasy and I think it's my job to know what's popular and out there at the moment.
I will NOT read any of the subsequent ones... One was quite enough research, thank you :-)
But I do agree with your friend. If you haven't read something, don't dis it. Dissing-by-proxy is just... well, the basis of book-banning, if you ask me.

[Momento Mori]

IMNSHO you can't have a valid opinion on a book unless you've read it. However, there is equally no obligation on you to read something if you don't think it's your cup of tea.

If your mate is such a fan of them and you want to have a serious discussion with her about them or you just want to see what all the fuss is about, then ask to borrow her copy. That way, she knows she's done her part to try and win you over and you're not forking out cash to buy them. Everyone wins.

MM

[KiraOnWhite]

If you find the book too exhausting, perhaps you can switch over to chapter-by-chapter commentaries. I suggest Cleolinda's entries at Livejournal, or Dan's at Sparknotes.

[smcc360]

Of course you should read it. Nobody ever suffered from being excessively well-read.

[C.M.C.]

No. Being uncool is cooler than being cool.

[the addster]

I've thought about reading Twilight too, just to see what the shouting is all about. A few years ago I gave in and read The DaVinci Code, I can't say I enjoyed it, but I could make fun of it more effectively. How long could it take to get through Twilight, really? Let's face it, I found myself watching 2 hours of House Hunters International this weekend, how much bigger waste of time could Twilight be?

[Phaeal]

Twilight is no different from any other book. Try it. If you like it, continue. If you don't, stop.

Since you have a friend to appease (or educate ;) ), you might want to figure out why you like (or dislike) the book as you go along.

I've read the first few chapters of Twilight at the bookstore. If I ever see a copy lying around at the library, I might check it out and read the whole thing. However, I think a few chapters and skimming after has shown me why it appeals to a specific but numerous audience.

[Phaeal]

I've thought about reading Twilight too, just to see what the shouting is all about. A few years ago I gave in and read The DaVinci Code, I can't say I enjoyed it, but I could make fun of it more effectively. How long could it take to get through Twilight, really? Let's face it, I found myself watching 2 hours of House Hunters International this weekend, how much bigger waste of time could Twilight be?

Heh, was I dreaming or did you originally write "how much bigger a waste of tome could Twilight be?"

That was a great Freudian slip or pun, if so.

[the addster]

Heh, was I dreaming or did you originally write "how much bigger a waste of tome could Twilight be?"

That was a great Freudian slip or pun, if so.

Had to be a slip, I didn't even catch it, until you pointed it out. Dammmit, I would have left it alone.

[ChaosTitan]

If you don't want to spend the money, just check the first book out from the library or borrow it from your friend. No reason not to try to read them unless you just plain don't want to. But if you're tempted or just want to try to appease your friend, go ahead, start reading.

Obviously quite difficult to do, but try to go in with an open mind. If you don't like the story or the writing, you can always stop reading and say you tried. And if you end up enjoying it... well, there you go.

This. I will probably never read Twilight or its sequels. I've read enough reviews and commentaries here and elsewhere that I KNOW it isn't my cuppa. There are enough books out there I want to read that I won't waste my time on something that I know I'll dislike. But if you think it might be to your taste, or even if you want to be able to discuss it with your friends, then give it a try.

[Shadow_Ferret]

I read the first Harry Potter as research. I wanted to see how she handled magic. But Twilight? Vampires don't sparkle. I doubt there's much there that would be of value to me.

But if you're a fast reader (I'm not), then I see no harm in reading it.

Of course you should read it. Nobody ever suffered from being excessively well-read.

You have to read Twilight to be well-read? Here I thought you needed to read the classics. ;)

[ChaosTitan]

You have to read Twilight to be well-read? Here I thought you needed to read the classics. ;) Well, dang. Guess I'm screwed at both ends. ;)

[BenPanced]

You have to read Twilight to be well-read? Here I thought you needed to read the classics. ;)
Maybe it's "klassik". And if I had a way to make the first s backwards...

But if you're compelled to read a book for the sake of reading it, I'd say go for it, whatever your reasons. The worst that can happen is you get bored after 75 pages and have to stop. If you need to, read the first few paragraphs at the library or a bookstore (that's how I decided I wanted to buy Harry Potter and the Philospher's Stone) so you aren't out time and/or money for something you don't like after all.

[cscarlet]

It's totally up to you. I would, however, go into it with an open mind. If you're planning to hate it, and pick it apart as you read it, then you WILL hate it. The books are easy to pick apart.

That being said, I enjoyed the books. I enjoyed them for what they were: An interesting story. They do not exhibit great writing (if someone bumped into another freaking "fern" I was going to kill myself), they are not great characters (I hated Bella, and Edward is kindof a b*%$)... But it was new, it was different, I loved Seth and Jacob, and it was a VERY (very) quick read.

So, if you want to read them, then go ahead and read them. But don't read them as an "I told you so," read them because there is an off-chance somewhere in there that you might enjoy them.

If you don't want to read them, then don't waste your time, but do know that your friend is partially right solely on the basis of taste (everyone has different taste. No one has to agree on taste. But you ARE making an assumption, even if it is based "on taste" :)).

(*In case you can't tell, I'm a big fan of appreciating things for what they are, and not what I believe they should be).

Have fun, either way!!! I'm sure if she loves the books so much, she has them and would let you borrow them ;)

[TheWritingRunner]

I have to agree with the "go into them with an open mind" point of view. I've read many books that are wildly popular for reasons I don't quite get because I do think it's important to try to see why the book is popular, even if it isn't my "thing" and even if I'm not trying to write "popular" books.

But then again, I actually love the quirks and tribulations of the publishing business, so whenever something becomes a hit, I'm curious as to why.

I also second the idea of just getting it from the library. That way you don't feel you contributed to something you dislike if it really is as bad as you fear. ;)

-- TWR

[Use Her Name]

Well, I concure that you have no reason to "dis" the author at all. I'm pretty sure Stephanie Meyers went through the same process that we all went or are going through. She was one of the lucky ones. The majority of people who have ever tried to write a novel will never finish, let alone get to a huge multimillion dollar contract with movie spin offs. Knowing that keeps me humble. I think it is funny when unknown writers poke fun at people who have become huge overnight sucesses (I know I do). Heck, the writing might even be good. I personally refuse to read Twilight, because I was burnt out on Vampires long ago. They bore me silly. I think I did my duty to the Vampire myth. I read nearly all the Anne Rice Lestat books, and watched Lost Boys, nearly every vampire movie or book that came along, and even that silly (short lived) Vampire TV series in the 80's with Rick Springfield (he was really cute at the time). I even spent a lot of wasted hours writing a long story (got to at least 150 pages) about a young boy vampire who was captured by mad scientists (hopefully that is not all there was). It gave me decent experience writing every day, but in the end, I thought it was a stupid idea. So, no vampires for me.

[dirtsider]

I also read Twilight just to be able to discuss it, not so much for the book itself. So I suggest that you want to have something to discuss with your friend, try reading it but get it from the library if you don't want to spend the money on it.

Also, you might want to read it as a fellow writer - to see what works, what doesn't work, what makes you go "What was she THINKING??!!".

[The Grump]

I read Twilight last year ... just to see what all the fuss was about. When I started, I thought a klutzie protagonist was kind of neat. Also, liked the idea of vampires living in the Olympic rain forest and being able to walk in daylight (even if they weren't 'powerful')

Unfortunately, Meyer didn't overcome my 'eh' attitude towards vampires. I skimmed the book, then traded it. Give me Jean-Claude, instead of whoever.

As for you reading the book -- I suggest you borrow it from your friend to make her happy. Afterwards, you can read as much of it as you like. How you like.

[Toothpaste]

Use Her Name - you make some good points but you should know that most of the people who don't like series don't like it because they don't like it. Not because they are jealous of Stephenie Meyer, or resent her popularity. We just don't like the books. How they are written and what they are about. That's it. It's simple.

I agree with the rest of this thread, there is no shame in reading these books, especially if you want to, and you really should try to approach it with an open mind. Though I disagree with the person who said if you don't then you won't like them. I have read many books in my past that I wasn't expecting to like and loved them, and vice versa. Still, if you are going to read them you should try to do so without prejudice. When I picked up Twilight I expected to enjoy it, I didn't know anything about the series at all. Then I read it.

Anyway, borrow it, don't spend money. Read it. See what you think. Or not. Do what you want to. It's just a book.

[emilycross]

I agree with what everyone else has said. Keep an open mind.

My friend thought they were a joke (she never read them but like you 'heard' about the sparkles etc.) now she loves them! and the movies!

No harm ever came from reading a book

(yes thats a quote from 'the mummy') Lol

[Lady Ice]

Read them with an open mind. I wouldn't encourage dissing without having read it.

You should read it to keep up with current popular literature.

[Jamesaritchie]

You should at least try reading it. Not syaing tis is one of them, but some of the best books of all time received horrible reviews, and had legions of haters. If you don't try, you'll never know.

There isn't a reviewer in the world that I'll let tell me a book is bad. I've read too many good ones that were universally blasted by reviewers.

But if a friend gushes about a book, I'll always try it. I make hate the book, I may not read more than a chapter or two, but I'll at least try.

Millions of readers loved Twilight, and while that doesn't make it a good book, it sure makes it a book that did something right.

I read Twilight and came away with the conclusion that it has poor writing but good story and decent characters.

Then again, I'm not big on blasting successful writers, anyway. They all do something right. I hate Dan Brown's writing, and I know his "research" sucks, but the man tells one heck of a good story, and always knows what to write about.

At any rate, I think it's always a bad idea to let anyone else decide what is or isn't a good book for you.

[Michael J. Hoag]

Yes. Everyone who wants to write should at least try to read the first Twilight. I think you should read the first 50 pages, which is a lot to ask, but the book is quite remarkable for the incredible extended length of its set up prior to introducing any real conflict or stakes. It's quite a marvel of post-modern story-telling. Not even James Joyce or Samuel Becket could get away with that! But then again, their books didn't make pre-teen girls' thingies tingle.

I think 50 pages is enough to get the idea of the book's style and voice. Then you'll probably want to switch to a light skim or the wikipedia summaries, which is what most of the kids do anyway. It's definitely worth while from the perspective of cultural understanding to know these stories. I can think of no popular stories as sexist as these. And that's interesting.

[kuwisdelu]

Everyone who wants to write should at least try to read the first Twilight.

Umm, I'm not sure about about that...

There's no single book that "everyone who wants to write" should read.

But then, I got through a couple pages of Amazon's "Look inside" excerpt before giving up.

[roseangel]

Try them out, read the first 20 or so pages, if you don't like it, stop.
I only got about 75 pages into it, I tried to read it cause I was writing a vampire story, but I found Twilight super boring.
Try it first, you don't have to keep reading if you don't like it.

[HelloKiddo]

Just read it! Obviously it's getting to you enough to warrant starting this thread, so you must be curious. I can assure you it's a very VERY quick and easy read. I'm The World's Slowest Reader and I zipped through it in a day. Honestly, in the time it took you to start this thread and read through these replies you could've been halfway through the book by now.

Borrow your friend's copy or get it from the library if you don't want to spend the $$$.

[Manuel Royal]

What's wrong with vampires being out in the daylight? As you'll recall, in Bram Stoker's famous novel, Dracula walked around London in broad daylight (or as close as they got to broad daylight in London c. 1900).

I'm not planning to read the books, but I can assume they've got something going for them, or they wouldn't be so popular. My guess is that for the fans, what really works is the central love story, and everything else is window-dressing.

[Anahid21]

What's wrong with vampires being out in the daylight? As you'll recall, in Bram Stoker's famous novel, Dracula walked around London in broad daylight (or as close as they got to broad daylight in London c. 1900).

Bram Stoker can do that. He's the surrogate father of the vampire lore. A few years back I was a big fan of the whole concept. I studied its history, its origins and even wrote a college paper on it. There are certain things about vampires that makes them compelling. Amongst the most important ones are fear of the sun, need to drink blood, immortality and being jaded due to centuries of living and watching people around you die, strange family structures where your mother can look years younger than you and you could marry your (vampire) sister.

SM walked all over that. In a review I read that her brand of vampirism was a smoke screen to describe Mormonism. I have no clue because I know nothing about Mormons, but the author who did that review was a Mormon so I trust they knew.

Still, my hesitation for reading the book isn't even due to that. It's because of what I hear about the writing. They say it is riddled with adverbs, unnecessary descriptions and no conflict until the last 10 pages. I'm very picky about what I read and anything that's badly written I throw aside after the third paragraph. I need convincing that there's something good about this book to forgive the bad writing and read past the first page.

[dgould50]

As soon as everyone on the planet has the same perspective and response to outside stimuli, ie; books, music, philosophy, Twilight you could just go on the input of others. But if you want your mind enhance, stretched, your perspective broadened, etc. then read it. And, anything else that strikes your fancy. I would be wondering why 85,000,000 copies have been printed and in 30+languages. Oh and 3 movies so far. Some people read the Bible or the Koran or the Hindu text and come away with nothing. Some people read Twilight and have a life changing epiphany. Some get inspiration from the cool sayings on Celestial Seasoning tea boxes.

[Rowan]

I read the series (wanted to choke Bella throughout but I endured). I agree with those who suggest reading it because you can never be too well read, etc. ;)

[*RomanceWriter*]

Yes.

[MelodyO]

Hearing so many horrible things about the books might work in your favour. Nothing could probably be as bad as you've built it up to in your head.

It was the opposite for me when I tried to read the first book. I'd heard all the sparkly hype and was eager to know what all the fuss was about. I was pretty disappointed when the book turned out to be clunky and rather ridiculous. I'm willing to enjoy something simply for what it is (loved Davinci Code), but this...hoo boy. I lasted about 50 pages before abandoning ship.

So take a chance then report back your findings to us. Enquiring minds want to know! :D

[kaitie]

I okay, I thought about this because I knew my answer but wasn't sure why. Now I know.

I do agree that there are certain things you can't know or really rightfully diss if you haven't read it. Her writing, for instance. You might even like sparkly vampires in the context of the story.

But I had a friend tell me yesterday about the fourth book. I didn't believe him so I read a summary of the plot. Having read that, there is no way I'd pick them up and read them now. If I had gotten that far, I'd have been so pissed at the ridiculousness that I'd have probably become one of those Amazon bad reviewers. I've read summaries of the book, and that's enough for me to make certain realizations about the series. I really, really don't like what she does with Bella. At all. There are events in the second book that are at best examples of an annoying character I can't stand, and at worst have me hoping no one out there ever, ever thinks it's okay to respond to things the way she does. I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt that Bella's reactions and attitudes are so...undesirable that most people realize it and don't see her as a role model.

I have other issues with certain plot elements that would leave me annoyed at the very least. Now, I'm a sucker for a good vampire book. I even might be a sucker for the kind of rescue fantasies the books seem to be filled with. I also have no problem telling someone, "Look, I just don't think I'd like it, and I'm willing to take the chance that I might not read something I'd enjoy."

You don't have to tell her all the things wrong with it, just, "Not my cup of tea." There are plenty of books out there I don't read because the plots don't sound interesting to me. I'm sure the same is true of your friend, and just about anybody.

[kaitie]

Umm, I'm not sure about about that...

There's no single book that "everyone who wants to write" should read.

But then, I got through a couple pages of Amazon's "Look inside" excerpt before giving up.

That's a good idea. See, I'd do that lol. ;)

[Pyrohawk]

My thought process on this is....what could it hurt? Its a quick read since the writing is aimed at a younger audience and it isn't a very complex story.

I read them because I just heard so many people talking about them I thought....well hey, why not? Besides as a writer it's good to know what people want these days and as someone else said....clearly it did "something" right.

Well.....I really liked them. And I'm a strait, 20 year old, man. Yup, I feel no shame in admitting this as a guy or as a writer.
Were they written well? No.
Was it intelligent or complex? No.
Was it full of cleshays and cornyness? Yup......
BUT.....in the end, did I enjoy them? Yes.

They are Pop Fiction. Just a light, fluffy read.....theres nothing wrong with that. Would I write a thesis on it? Definately not....but would I waste a Sunday afternoon on them? Sure. Just read it with an open mind and keeping in mind that it is what it is. Its fun and nothing more. The story was pretty entertaining and I liked the characters for the most part, despite their lack of depth. The only thing I had trouble with was Bella's constant obsessing over his looks and their immediate love thing...as a guy it kinda made me bored lol. But once I got past that and let myself just sit back and relax.....I enjoyed them quite a lot.

As far as the issue that many people have with Vampires sparkling...... I have never liked Vampires, they always seemed lame to me with the whole no daylight and coffins and such silliness. So this was actually a fresh take on them for me personally.

[KTC]

My wife heard buzz from so many friends. It was like a virus...all these grown women saying, 'try it. you'll love it'. She wasn't convinced at first. Then a friend with close to the same reading tastes put her life on pause to read the entire series. She loved loved loved it.

So my wife bought the series and took them up to the cottage for a week.

She thought the first one was 'okay' but nothing special. It was the first time she complained about the actual writing as opposed to not liking a story. She sounded like a writer while critiquing it. It was funny...because she's the opposite of a writer. A non-writer, I guess that is. Anyway...she was really disappointed...because her friends hyped it as this fantastic thing. But she picked up book 2...she had nothing else to read. She barely made it through that one during the week. I think she got through the others since returning from the cottage...but it actually made her stop reading for a while. She ALWAYS reads. After trudging through book 2, she didn't want to read anything.

I tried the first book. Got about 30ish pages in. I can't tell you how much I hated the writing, the story, the plastic shitball everything about it. I went in with a 'might as well try it...it's paid for' attitude. I'll never pick that book up and finish it.

But a billion people can't be wrong. My wife's friend literally put her life on hold to get through the series. Does it make her a dumbass? No. Makes her someone with different taste.

I always live by the belief that you should try everything. And try not to knock anything until you actually tried it. With Twilight, I'm in my knocking stage. But others get high from it. Taste...it makes the world go round.

[Rhoda Nightingale]

Well..... It does spark some fantastic discussions, and it'll give you plenty to think about. Just know that, once you go down this road, there is no going back. There's something inexplicably gripping about these books, and while some people here (and I admire y'all, I really do) put them down in disgust or boredom pretty quickly, not all of us are that strong-willed. Here's what happened to my mother after she read the first book:

Her: God, I can't believe how whiny and selfish Bella is!

Me: I know, she aggravates me.

Her: And Edward is such a controlling, abusive nutcase!

Me: I hear that.

Her: And vampires don't sparkle!*

Me: It's crazy.

Her: So......do you have the next one?

Me: hahaha--I'll put it on your night table.


......so just keep that in mind. Even those of us who love to hate them sometimes have a hard time walking away.

*for the record, sparkling vampires don't bother me that much. I've gotten used to people doing weird things with creatures of classic myth in modern fiction. I took in the spirit of, "Huh, that's different," rather than "DO NOT WANT!" like so many others.

[MelodyO]

Yes, I've heard that over and over - a lot of people are inexplicably driven to read all four books, even though they thought they were boring or stupid or whatever. There's just something about the story that grabs them and won't let go. I myself wasn't caught in its thrall, but those opening weekend movie totals speak for themselves.

[Satori1977]

You never know until you read one. People at my work (and these are grown women, not teens) kept praising the books. "Have you read it?" "You HAVE to read it!" Being I love vamps, I went to Walmart to pick up the first, ended up buy the first two (they were on sale). I sat down and read it in a couple of days. Wasn't that it was a gripping story, but it held my interest in the promise of good things to happen....that never did. It was a big tease, actually. I somewhat enjoyed it as I read, but at the end of the book, I was a big "huh?". I actually finished it, and thought on the book for a minute, and said "what a minute..." Then I started picking it a part. Things I didn't notice while I was reading kept coming to my head. I tried to talk to said coworkers about the book, and they just looked at me dumbfounded. Didn't understand how I didn't enjoy the book, didn't like Bella, or Edward, didn't like the love story.

I did read the other three, hoping it would get better. And because I liked Alice and Jacob (two kinda minor characters). Saw the movie, sucked worse than the book. Even a lot of the Twihard fans I knew didn't like it. I borrowed it from a friend who hadn't read the book, and we had a good laugh about it...see she is a big vampire/horror fan....these other friends are not. I think that is the main difference. People that like vampire stories, hate the books. People who don't normally read vamp books, aren't bothered by the rape of the genre (or apparently of the English language).

Oh, and all of these friends are bugging the crap out of me since New Moon came out, how amazing the movie is, they are going in groups and seeing it several times. 20 and 30 year old, intelligent women. And sorry, but New Moon was the worst book IMO. So you never know. You don't have to be a kid to like this series. Or stupid. It is just a matter of opinion.

[Pyrohawk]

I did read the other three, hoping it would get better. And because I liked Alice and Jacob (two kinda minor characters). Saw the movie, sucked worse than the book. Even a lot of the Twihard fans I knew didn't like it. I borrowed it from a friend who hadn't read the book, and we had a good laugh about it...see she is a big vampire/horror fan....these other friends are not. I think that is the main difference. People that like vampire stories, hate the books. People who don't normally read vamp books, aren't bothered by the rape of the genre (or apparently of the English language).


I think this is a good statement. If you liked vampires the way they always have been.... you probably won't like the book. But if you don't care if someone changes them, or like me...hate traditional vampires, it won't bother you any.

The books weren't "Great" but I did think they were "Good". The last book, though I liked the Renesmee thing which many people didn't.....was a huge let down in the end. The ending made me mad, don't build up to something if you're not gonna do it.

And yeah....New Moon was pretty weak.

Over all I still enjoyed the books despite my issues with them.

[Kitty27]

I liked Twilight. It's my favorite book of the series.

My friend loves the books and sent me her collection. Deciding to be open minded,I read them.


Violence shall be done. Upon my honor,I am going to beat her ass with a sofa cushion.

SMeyer clearly laces her books with crack. Because I could not stop reading all of them. Even though I was appalled,irritated,bored,etc,I kept going. They are easy reads,fun at times,and okay. I simply couldn't get past Bella's ways. She is a twit and that is putting it mildly. But I give SM credit. As I read the books,I realized that I didn't even know what Bella looked like! Her personality is so blank that any young girl reading the books can imagine herself in Bella's place. in my opinion,THAT is the secret of Twilight's success.

[S.J.]

Yeah, you probably should - then at least you'll be justified in your dissing. Borrow your friend's copy if she wants you to read it so much and then you've got nothing to lose (except time).

[smcc360]

Yes, I've heard that over and over - a lot of people are inexplicably driven to read all four books, even though they thought they were boring or stupid or whatever. There's just something about the story that grabs them and won't let go. I myself wasn't caught in its thrall, but those opening weekend movie totals speak for themselves.

That something is usually -

Surely this gets better at some point.

If that's all it takes, then I'm the next Stephen King.

[wannawrite]

OMG! Don't do it! Save yourself while you can!

Seriously.

My teen is obsessed, and like you, I resisted the lure for over a year. A week or two ago, she started in with the wheedling, again, so I went and did it. Mildly curious, I picked the book up....and my eyes started spontaneously bleeding. No joke. By page three I was walking in incredulous circles, pulling my hair out, trying to figure out how this tripe ever got published! It made realize that my own YA fantasy novel, Blood Moon, does not need further refining and improving. Far from it. If this is the worthless tripe that sells, then I need to go through and 'dummy-down' every word that I've written. Seriously. My story actually has a plot. And likable, albeit somewhat flawed, characters. Nothing sparkles. Nothing. Not even my hero's eyes.

*sigh*

Just please, get out while you can. This, I beg of you as a fellow AWer. You deserve better than Twilight. We all do.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((big group hug)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[Hittman]

IMNSHO you can't have a valid opinion on a book unless you've read it.

How about if you tried to read it? I skimmed a random page and the writing was so gawd-awful I put it down immediately.

That being said, I enjoyed the books. I enjoyed them for what they were: An interesting story. They do not exhibit great writing (if someone bumped into another freaking "fern" I was going to kill myself), they are not great characters (I hated Bella, and Edward is kindof a b*%$)... But it was new, it was different, I loved Seth and Jacob, and it was a VERY (very) quick read.

I read Twilight and came away with the conclusion that it has poor writing but good story and decent characters.

That was my daughters take on it as well. They're in their twenties. (Twins)

They are huge Harry Potter fans. They were among the people who waited on line outside the bookstore before it opened on the release date. They each bought their own copy, because sharing one would have meant one of them would have to wait to read it. They've read each one twice.

Me, I waited until they were done before I read them. I loved them too, although not as rabidly as they did. Compelling characters, a great story, and excellent writing – what more could you ask for?

They bought all the Twilight books too, but only when they got around to it. And the moment they were done with them they put them in a garage sale. They'll never part with their HP books.

SMeyer clearly laces her books with crack. Because I could not stop reading all of them. Even though I was appalled,irritated,bored,etc,I kept going.

I had the same reaction to the Stephen Donaldson's Thomas Covenant series. Hated them, but couldn't wait until the next one.

Yeah, the first vampire went out in the daylight, but the myth that's built up keeps them out of the sun. Every writer plays around with the myth, a little or a lot, but taking away that weakness ruins the genre for me. It's like Superman without Kryptonite. And sparkle? Sheesh, how lame.

http://www.veryfunnypics.com/pics/celeb/images/zzzzz_celebrity-pictures-keifer-sutherland-vampires-sparkle.jpg

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/6/19/633810377646154240-vampires.jpg

http://www.zombieinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/celebrity-pictures-count-von-count-sparkle-no.jpg

[theantisplice]

After a great deal of social pressure, I read the first book. It was an easy, bland, unexciting read, at least for me. I didn't finish the series. I didn't care that much.

But if you want to read it, why the heck not? Take it out of the library or borrow it rather than buy it. While I don't think Stephenie Meyers is a talented writer by any means, the insanity of her massive fan base is undeniable. Clearly the woman did something right. I have my theories as to what it was - wish-fulfillment fantasy for young girls craving devotion and adoration - but who knows.

Anyway, if you want to try it I don't see why you shouldn't. If you don't like it you can always stop.

[JoNightshade]

Okay, I thought I would come back and add to this thread since I just caved in to the demands of two of my friends and read the first three chapters. I'm not going any further.

I actually wasn't bothered so much by the actual writing, although Meyers definitely likes her adverbs. I just can't stand Bella. She's so unlikeable and negative and depressing and mopey. When I start hoping the protagonist will die, that's probably not a good sign.

I can see why teenage girls like this, though. I think most teenage girls go through that "Oh man my life sucks and I suck" phase, so they should identify with this.

[Use Her Name]

I would read it if it were my genre. As it is, I am kept pretty buisy reading and writing in the genre I write in, as well as all my research literature and then there's writing that novel. I limit myself to things that are not YA and not fantasy.

[Twisted Humour]

I know its a dead thread but i just had to add something:

READ THE VAMPIRE CHRONICLES by Anne Rice!!!!!!!!!!

Unreal :)

[Devil Ledbetter]

I actually wasn't bothered so much by the actual writing, although Meyers definitely likes her adverbs. I just can't stand Bella. She's so unlikeable and negative and depressing and mopey. .You forgot eye-rolly and sigh-y. Here's how Twilight works. (http://theoatmeal.com/story/twilight)

[Twisted Humour]

I have only seen the movies so far. Not by choice by any means. *birthday party obligations*. I thought it was well written until I saw that they sparkle and don't eat people..

[Miss T]

You should, if only to be aware of it. There's something important in every book that gets published and something that you can take from it, and as far as bad books go, Twilight is at least easy to get through (once you get past the bad writing, misogynistic themes, etc.).

[shaldna]

Yes. Everyone who wants to write should at least try to read the first Twilight.


I assume you mean as a 'how not to write a book'.

My main issue with Twilight (aside from the bad writing and terrible themes) is the complete lack of anything actually happening. It just goes on and on and on, and the closest we get to conflict is whether eddikins skin is marble-like or incandescent, or a crazy mix of both.

I can see the appeal it has for girls of a certain age, and we have to bear in mind that the majority of it's fanbase is teenagers and women in thier late 20's and early 30's. In short, the wish fulfilment groups. As a teen you are enchanted with the idea of a perfect life, and as an adult of that age you are aware that life is not going to be perfect and so you are attracted to a fantasy life. Once you get into your late 30's you get over that.

I had other issues with the book, bad writing, poor grammar, awkward sentences, a teenage protag who talks and acts like my granny, complete lack of chemistry between any of the characters, virtually no conflict (there's all this 'forbidden love' hype, but when reading the books absolutly no one and nothing tells them they can;t be together) and far too much self indulgent purple prose.

It just wasn't my bag at all. But there are alot of people who do like it, and will tell you about it's good points.

If you want to read it then give it a go, you might like it.

[itesser]

This link needs to show up in any discussion of Twilight

http://vampirely.wordpress.com/

It stopped updating in the middle of Eclipse, but she goes through the first two books chapter by chapter pointing out how harmful the books are to teenagers (ie: abusive/stalker boyfriend, inert women) and to writers (ie: adverb abuse).

[Monkey]

The following video is an awesome plot synopsis for New Moon; I highly recommend it for EVERYONE, whether you love or hate Twilight, have read it or not. Very, very funny stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9iKNDiiBqE

[wrangler]

Sorry, I didn't know where to post this among the several dozens of Twilight threads.

A friend of mine who is a fan of the series keeps gushing over it. I come with my arsenal full of bad reviews I've read on personal blogs, Amazon and AW. Still, she cracks all my defences by simply stating, "Have you read the books?" and since my answer is no she claims I have no right to dis them.

This has made me consider reading the books, so we would at least be on even grounds. But every time I think about it I remember the dreadful things I saw in the reviews: Vampires walking in daylight, an abusive immortal boyfriend, an overly obsessed, clumsy heroine, grown men "imprinting toddlers" *shudder.* Could someone please tell me if I should give it a try? Do you think my head would explode? Or is there something worthwhile in the books after all? Or perhaps all these assumptions are wrong and I shouldn't literally judge a book by its cover? well, why not. i think it would be a great idea. and then you can come back and share with us your thoughts.

[milly]

why not read it? you can love or hate it but at least, having read it, you can give your own opinion

[dgiharris]

I make it a point to read all the popular books of my genre, regardless of how awful they are.

I feel as writers we must be aware of the market, and truth is, the reader is the ultimate arbiter on what is good or bad and we must not lose sight of it.

With all that being said, I have yet to read Twilight and it is in my genre.

I guess I'm putting it off because I know I will consider it a piece of shit. Nonetheless, it is a piece of shit that I'm going to read in the next couple of months. And who knows, maybe i'll be surprised and fall in love with it. Never know (well, actually, I'm pretty sure I do :) )

Mel...

[wrangler]

I know its a dead thread but i just had to add something:

READ THE VAMPIRE CHRONICLES by Anne Rice!!!!!!!!!!

Unreal :)

Since the release of Twilight, I've heard a great deal about Ms. Ann Rice. Thank for the suggestion -eager to learn more.

[fredXgeorge]

You could if you wanted but I wouldn't spend money on it. I won't go into details why because Shaldna pretty much summed up my feelings about it :tongue

[FionnaFlynn]

After picking the books up mulltiple times, looking them over and not buying...I finally caved in December 2008 when I got money for Christmas. I bought them all at once and read them in a week. I read them again. Obviously something in the story resonated with my being. It believe it awakened a sleeping passion inside...and my hubby will heartily agree. :0

I've given copies to other people I thought would enjoy them. To those who were quite vocal in saying "No way would I read that crap", I say, to each his own. I don't read a lot of genres that interest others, but I do try to keep an open mind.

Do I agree with Meyer's view of vampires? Not especially, I like mine a little more randy, but not quite as much as Christine Feehan's Carpathians. But as it was Stephenie's idea and her book, I say, go for it. Being free to create our own worlds is why we write, isn't it?

Joy Luck Club is reputedly a great book, yet I cannot bring myself to read it, or anything having to do with the Orient. It just isn't my thing. And you can't make me....

All that said, check them out from the library. No money lost there. After reading the Twilight Saga, I went on to read P.C. Cast and her daughter's series, the House of Night novels. Not as compelling a story and they read like a Saturday matinee serial (nothing happens until the last chapter of the book to set up the next book), but they were OK.

What all of these accomplished for me was the inspiration to write my own story, which I am currently doing. Will people read it and think I've taken liberties with previous canon? I certainly hope so. Otherwise, we should all just read the same 50 books over and over.

[Acey]

Well, in my opinion its a waste of time, but at least its a waste of a minimal amount of time since its such a fast read.

This link discusses the fluid, complex writing style of Stephanie Meyer, including of course her rich vocabulary: http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2010/03/the_writing_style_of_twilight.html

(sarcasmsarcasmsarcasm)

[stormie]

Acey, I just read that link. :ROFL:

I've got to read the book now.

[brainstorm77]

I liked book one, disliked two and three and thought four was just a way to tie things up. I confess, there were many times when I skimmed my way through the pages.

[Libbie]

I got a free unabridged audio version of the first book and listened to it while I jogged, since I was going to go jogging anyway. In my opinion, it was one of the lamest books I've ever encountered, but I can certainly understand why some people like them. I really disliked Myer's (sp?) writing style and that made it hard for me to get into the books, even with a good narrator reading it.

[RSned05]

Personally I would say no. I got on the whole Twilight craze because everyone was telling me how good it was. For me, I like my vampires to be scary and not to glisten in the sun. But you might like it, who knows?

[Iris--]

Personally I don't think you miss anything if you don't read Twilight but I also don't think you can have an opinion about something you haven't read yourself. But maybe you should try read it anyway. I mean, some people seem to like those books, who knows, maybe you're one of them :)

[Talihashi]

There is already plenty of opinions here so obviously mine is not needed but honestly sometimes I feel like I have to say something. There are a lot of people who do and do not like Twilight. But the fact is that the Twilight story has been pretty successful. Does this mean you should read it? No. But if you are looking for something to read, and a book is so successful obviously there are a huge number of people that like it. This should at least make you give it a chance. You probably never would have read so many bad things about it if there were not so many people out there that read it and enjoyed it. In fact you probably would never have even heard of it. So should you read Twilight? That is your decision but I think you should at least give it a chance.

[R. A. Lundberg]

Twilight; oh boy. I finally wound up reading part of the first book (garage sale buy, for 50 cents). It lived up to what I'd read about it elsewhere: poorly written and nearly a manual on "how to act like doormat" for teen girls.
It's crap, but apparently crap sells well enough to make her the best selling writer of the decade.
P.T. Barnum said "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public".

[Heatherwebb_writes]

Twilight Series, hmmm...
Though not especially well written, I find the books a fun easy read. They are very formulaic, but they work. That's what a formula is all about. Can you go wrong with unrequited love, danger, & passion? A beautiful, rich, super talented bad guy who rescues us from the tedium of our lives is the guy we all want to fall in love with, isn't it?

[aadams73]

Still, she cracks all my defences by simply stating, "Have you read the books?" and since my answer is no she claims I have no right to dis them.

Could someone please tell me if I should give it a try? Do you think my head would explode? Or is there something worthwhile in the books after all? Or perhaps all these assumptions are wrong and I shouldn't literally judge a book by its cover?

Well, your friend is right about one thing: it's silly to criticize the book if you haven't read it. It's like saying, "Pizza, yuck, I hate pizza!" without having tried the stuff.

Anyway, my experience with Twilight was this: I read it in one sitting. Seriously. I put my feet up on my desk, slouched down in my office chair, and there I sat until I was done.

The suck didn't start to creep in until I started thinking about the characters and the writing.

For me, Twilight was a page turner. I'm glad I read it for that reason because Stephenie Meyer has that magical something that made me flip from one page to the next. I almost never read a book in one sitting. But it has serious flaws that run through the thing like an undercurrent that, to me, became apparent afterward. At the time though, it was like binging on chocolate.

So should you read it? I don't know. Do you want to? Do our opinions really matter? Just don't, as your friend said, dis it if you haven't read it.

[Chris P]

I do think Twilight is worthy of study for the simple fact that it has been wildly successful. It has all the elements of the "perfect" teen book: magical stuff (escapism?), a taboo romance, a familiar setting (a high school), hard choices regarding who to be with (be with the werewolf, he's clearly better for you), a mostly independent main character, and mostly absent parents.

When I started reading it, I thought Meyer was spoofing the genre. C'mon, the main character's name is Bella! The books were enjoyable, but certainly not anything that is going to change my writing or my life.

Most of what I dislike is the hype, but then I have to remember that these books are probably the first novel-length fiction that many of the fans have ever read outside of school. Most of them were too young to read the first Harry Potter books when they came out. Of course they are going to be excited about it. Hopefully after reading the 2300 or so pages of Twilight at least a handful of the readers will be less intimidated by other -- and IMO better -- books out there.

[Heatherwebb_writes]

I would read it if it were my genre. As it is, I am kept pretty buisy reading and writing in the genre I write in, as well as all my research literature and then there's writing that novel. I limit myself to things that are not YA and not fantasy.

I'm sorry, but your picture is disturbing!! I hate bugs...especially crunchy bugs like beetles & every time I see your post, I cringe. This is not because of your actual post...just the picture. What is your genre? Sci-fi, horror?

[History_Chick]

I read the first one but never read anything after it. It was a decent read. I was never sucked into it like my teen patrons. Everyone gushed over Harry Potter and I haven't read one of those books. I'm not interested in the genre and there was nothing to pull me in.

[kaitiepaige17]

I can only dream that one day my book will be so popular that there is a thread on here about whether or not to read it :P

[Heatherwebb_writes]

The straight simple answer is YES, you should read them. If for no other reason, the Twilight series is popular fiction and it's a good idea to study what the general masses consider fun to read, interesting, marketable, etc.
Another reason to read them is that they are entertaining, though not particularly well-written. But why do writers think every book has to be perfectly written? It's the same rule of thumb with movies- sometimes they are just for entertainment and not for high quality. I feel that way about the Twilight series.
I must admit, though, that I've read The Host and I found the emotional content of the book very good. For me, that's mostly what a good book is about; the emotional connection I develop with the characters.

[Heatherwebb_writes]

I can only dream that one day my book will be so popular that there is a thread on here about whether or not to read it :P
Wow! You have so many books finished?! And what a lovely picture! Any luck with an agent? I live in Murfreesboro for 5 years. Are you anywhere near there?

[Amadan]

Well, your friend is right about one thing: it's silly to criticize the book if you haven't read it. It's like saying, "Pizza, yuck, I hate pizza!" without having tried the stuff.

That was my feeling -- I mocked it, but I'd never actually read it. Hardly fair. So I tried to read it. It was awful. I couldn't finish it. It wasn't a page-turner for me; by the end of chapter one, I wanted Bella to die so she'd stop being so boring.

But thanks to the Sparkledammerung (http://stoney321.livejournal.com/317176.html), which is the most epic and hilarious Twilight summary/sporking ever, I was fully briefed on every painful detail of the series. So maybe it was like reading the Twilight Cliff Notes with Extra Snark. But I feel comfortable dissing it now.

[kaitiepaige17]

Heatherwebb: Yes! I live in Tullahoma, only 45 mins from the Boro! It's nice to meet someone on here who lives so close!

But no luck on agents. The only MS I've tried to get published was SAND, but after a rejected partial I gave up. Now, reading them, they're just too messy to fix, so I'm starting with new stories :)

[RedRose]

Read the first one, don't expect the second one to be happy, the third I can't even remember the story line and the fourth she is ALL POWERFUL amazing, has every gift under the sun, nothing is impossible, I can control the world. Oh yea, and she's hot. Don't expect to believe the fourth. If anything she might have scared teeny boppers off pregnancy for life. lol

[Lady Ice]

Read it, if only for the laugh. It's so ridiculous and melodramatic that it becomes quite funny (although don't read the fourth one whilst you're eating your tea).

[Devil Ledbetter]

Read it, and take a swig of beer every time a character rolls his or her eyes. Take two whenever Edward's eye color is mentioned. Take three every time the dialog tag "demanded" is used. You'll be loaded by the end of the second chapter. Good times!

[tjwriter]

You could take a swig every time it's mentioned how cold or hard Edward's body is, too.

[Devil Ledbetter]

You could take a swig every time it's mentioned how cold or hard Edward's body is, too.Well, I don't want anyone to suffer alcohol poisoning.

Pace yourselves!;)

[tjwriter]

That's why I said "or". You'll have to pick one or the other but not both on the same night or you'll be dead midbook.

[scarletpeaches]

I like to watch the DVD of the first movie and down a vodka shot every time Stewart stutters over her lines in an attempt to appear srs.

[dclary]

I read Eragon to see why people hated it so much. The story was derivative, sure, but the kid put effort into trying to write it -- so much so that I was impressed enough to read it through, and the series has grown on me...

I would imagine if I were an emo, goth, or unloved chica with feelings of not belonging or never finding true happiness, I'd feel the same about the Twilight books.

Fortunately for Meyer, there's a shitload of girls just like that.

[Sleepyhead]

My stepdaughter, 12, has read all four books, so against what I thought was my better judgment, I picked them up to see what the appeal was.

And I had to remind myself not to prejudge.

I've read the first three, and I like them, although I've found certain plot points frustrating.

I think there is some validity to the idea that the books are misogynistic, but not for the reasons others cite. I think Edward actually turns out to be more considerate than anyone in the books. Those who've continued reading (can't blame anyone for putting down a book if s/he's not hooked, but it does often lead to mistaken impressions) know that Bella misinterpreted quite a lot of his words and expressions. The communication on both sides gets a lot better when the air is cleared.

Bella clearly needs a good dose of self-esteem - but by the end of the third book, I was thinking Edward needed a whole lot more.

I hated the end of the third book. Hated it. Thought the whole ending love triangle plotline was unrealistic and offensive. But I'll keep reading.

I'd gone in thinking, based on reviews I'd read, that the grammar itself would be terrible. It wasn't. A couple of comma splices and a couple of dangling participles (hate those!) caught my eye, but I've seen much worse grammar overall in more respected books. Meyer used lot of adverbs, sure, but I didn't find them distracting.

Clearly some resolutions I was hoping for in books two and three won't happen until book four. They've been emphasized too heavily and for too long for me to not feel cheated.

Is the writing great? No, but I think it's unfair to call it less than good. The books are much, much better than a lot of stuff on the shelves.

[Southern Girl]

My stepdaughter, 12, has read all four books, so against what I thought was my better judgment, I picked them up to see what the appeal was.

And I had to remind myself not to prejudge.

I've read the first three, and I like them, although I've found certain plot points frustrating.

I think there is some validity to the idea that the books are misogynistic, but not for the reasons others cite. I think Edward actually turns out to be more considerate than anyone in the books. Those who've continued reading (can't blame anyone for putting down a book if s/he's not hooked, but it does often lead to mistaken impressions) know that Bella misinterpreted quite a lot of his words and expressions. The communication on both sides gets a lot better when the air is cleared.

Bella clearly needs a good dose of self-esteem - but by the end of the third book, I was thinking Edward needed a whole lot more.

I hated the end of the third book. Hated it. Thought the whole ending love triangle plotline was unrealistic and offensive. But I'll keep reading.

I'd gone in thinking, based on reviews I'd read, that the grammar itself would be terrible. It wasn't. A couple of comma splices and a couple of dangling participles (hate those!) caught my eye, but I've seen much worse grammar overall in more respected books. Meyer used lot of adverbs, sure, but I didn't find them distracting.

Clearly some resolutions I was hoping for in books two and three won't happen until book four. They've been emphasized too heavily and for too long for me to not feel cheated.

Is the writing great? No, but I think it's unfair to call it less than good. The books are much, much better than a lot of stuff on the shelves.


This.

I've experienced a like/loathe relationship with Twilight. This is an opinion that has wavered over the last two years. It's finally settling into an acceptance that while there are many things I hate about the books and movies, there are also a few things I like.

I hate the "voice". It's pretentious, sarcastic, insufferable, and haughty. I had an instant dislike for the MC.

The story went into a tailspin after the first book. The lack of effort put into the remaining books made me think the author was sick of the storyline, but was stuck in a business deal that required three more books.

The fourth book was weird. Had it not been for the well-placed drool factor passages for both Edward and Jacob, I don't think the target audience would have bought the story.

And it's frustrating for me that so many of her ideas were ripped off from songs. After listening to the playlists for her books, I was hugely turned off to the creative side of her storyline (yes, I thought there were quite a few).


These are my main gripes. But there's a couple of things that nag at me.


One, I don't think all the personal jabs at SMeyer are appropriate. She has a distinct writing style that comes out in everything she writes (what little bit there is). Like the above poster also pointed out, her style isn't incorrect; it's just unlikable, especially for other writers.

She seems like a genuine person who has a set of beliefs about love, sex and intimacy. Beliefs she has not compromised. I don't fault her for them. I admire her for not compromising.

Two, I like her characters for the most part. The ideas are creative, and realistic. My daughter (a pre-teen) reacted to all of the characters appropriately, which made me believe SMeyer's strengths are in her character creations. My daughter was neutral to Bella. She thought Edward was too stiff and "grown up". She adored Alice, Jacob and Emmett, but she hated Rosalie. And so on and so forth.

Meyer's "theories" about vampires represented a certain, much neglected group of readers. Face it - there's a lot of people out there who don't want to read about evil. As far as I know, no one else has given them a story like Twilight. They loved what she wrote, and were willing to make her franchise a billion-dollar machine. Fat 13 yr old goth girls or 30 yr old women in bad marriages (the running consensus) are an audience, no matter how much they're disliked or mocked.

The Twilight topic is so overdone at this point, I'm with those who've said it from the beginning: if you don't like SMeyer, don't waste time on the subject. I bought The Host, cracked the first page and then put it away. I like edgier stuff. There's a thousand other authors I don't read lining the bookstore shelves. It's not a big deal, nor is it worth my time to make fun of her, or her books.

[ceenindee]

Maybe this deserves it's own topic, but has anyone else read SM's newest, The Short Second Life of Bree Tanner? I had some time to kill at the book store and ended up finishing the whole thing (it's not very long). I'm curious to see what other people thought.

I liked it well enough. The writing felt rushed, but it wasn't enough to keep me from enjoying it. It was surprising how much SM embraced the violence in this one, compared to the others. Nothing compared to some other vamp novels, but still...it was refreshing. The ending disappointed me a little though. I think she could've packed more punch with it.

Anyways, my $0.02 on that.

[Kitty27]

I read Eragon to see why people hated it so much. The story was derivative, sure, but the kid put effort into trying to write it -- so much so that I was impressed enough to read it through, and the series has grown on me...

I would imagine if I were an emo, goth, or unloved chica with feelings of not belonging or never finding true happiness, I'd feel the same about the Twilight books.

Fortunately for Meyer, there's a shitload of girls just like that.


I must politely speak up for my tribe.

No Twilight vamps for us. Strictly Ricean and Dracula. None of this sparkly stuff for Goths,the horror. As a representative of the Goth nation,I can safely say that Twilight isn't the vampire series for us.

*leaves in a huff*

ETA: Fat Goths? Oh,my poor people! For Goddess's sake,we wear corsets!


I admire SMeyer. She stuck to her beliefs and obviously touched a nerve with many. But these books strength is NOT Edward or Jacob. It's Bella. She is such a blank slate that anyone can become her. Fans read the books from her POV and basically insert themselves into the story. That is some genius right there from SMeyer.

As writers,we look at the writing. But non writers see the story. Bella is awkward,odd,insert whatever trait the reader possesses. Sure,fans drool over the vamp and the wolf,but they don't want to BE them. They want to be Bella,a rather odd and plain girl who has two hotties fighting over and wanting to fulfill her every desire. What teen girl doesn't want that?


I am quite disappointed with the director for Breaking Dawn. I would have given much to see David Cronenberg direct the birth scene.

[scarletpeaches]

I am quite disappointed with the director for Breaking Dawn. I would have given much to see David Cronenberg direct the birth scene.You sick, twisted individual.

This is why I :heart: you.

[Devil Ledbetter]

The Twilight topic is so overdone at this point, I'm with those who've said it from the beginning: if you don't like SMeyer, don't waste time on the subject. I don't think it's a waste of time at all for writers to delve into and discuss what they like or dislike about another author's work, especially if said author has several runaway bestsellers. Whether we want to write a cotton candy bestseller, or hope to create something more substantial for a narrower audience, there is much to be learned from these discussions.

"If you don't like it, don't discuss it" seems like the bullet train to ignorance.

[scarletpeaches]

I think there's more to be learned from books we dislike, to be honest. Often it's hard to articulate what we like about a particular book, but if we dislike it, it's easier to say why.

This is similar to my stance on chick-lit, which is quite possibly the most saturated, cliche-ridden genre on the market at the moment, at least in this country. Someone said to me, "You shouldn't read it if you don't like it."

Oh really? I'm not allowed to hope for an improvement? Figure out which authors are improving? Criticise the genre from a point-of-view of knowledge rather than ignorance?

And if the books cease to rely on coincidence as a plot device, boyfriendless women aching for the perfect pair of shoes and accidental pregnancies, then I want to be around to witness the sea change.

Okay, as you were.

[tinapickles]

::Pointing at Scarlettpeaches:: what she said.

However, my reading experience of the Twilight books went something like this:

Sucked into the first (I also read it in one sitting). Decided to read the second, wasn't as impressed as the first, but still read it in one day. Read the third, wasn't impressed at all but recognized it was a "bridge" book and as such was merely setting up the fourth and final book. Read the fourth and final book and wanted to burn it. It took me over a month to read it. It was... horrible. And then it made me question the message (which is truly, truly frightening and horribly if you think about it) of all the other books and the loathing began.

So... if you want a leg to stand on to discuss or criticize the books, go for it. If you want a story that's meaningful and not masochistic in regards of the treatment of women, then don't bother.

[tjwriter]

And see I'm sort of backwards. Holes and all, I could understand why the stories were popular. The first book was dreadful boring for me. Nothing going on plot-wise. Just pages and pages of moaning over Edward and how cold and hard his chest was. To the end, something (Anything!) was finally happening in the story but it was over and done in a flash. Seemed a bit like premature ejaculation, if you will.

The second and third books left pretty much nothing to be remembered, except that I liked Jacob as a character better than Edward.

From my perspective, the fourth book finally had stuff happening. There were things going on. Granted, it wasn't the best, but at something was going on. It no longer felt like everyone was standing around twiddling thumbs.

I can understand why they are such a big hit, I can see the need it fulfills, but the in general, I wasn't thrilled with them. But good for smeyer for having a successful series! I wish I could publish a successful series. That requires writing something first!

[Southern Girl]

I don't think it's a waste of time at all for writers to delve into and discuss what they like or dislike about another author's work, especially if said author has several runaway bestsellers. Whether we want to write a cotton candy bestseller, or hope to create something more substantial for a narrower audience, there is much to be learned from these discussions.

"If you don't like it, don't discuss it" seems like the bullet train to ignorance.


Agreed on many points, but my statement was geared towards the bashing of SMeyer personally, and after a point, professionally. "Bashing" being the operative word. Intelligent discussion is never a mistake in any circle. You can see where I have my own b*tch or two about the series.

It's the bashing of the author's personal life/personality that bugs me. I should have made that more clear.



Edit: I had an opportunity to read the Eclipse novella (I know, I know, and even after I said I doubted I'd pick up another Meyer book), and nothing's changed. It was a bit more polished, but the same voice was there and the pacing was very slow. She has a distinct style, no doubt about it.

[stormie]

The first book was dreadful boring for me. Nothing going on plot-wise. Just pages and pages of moaning over Edward and how cold and hard his chest was. .... I can understand why they are such a big hit, I can see the need it fulfills, but the in general, I wasn't thrilled with them. But good for smeyer for having a successful series!
I agree. I bought Twilight at a 25 cent book sale (it's the only way I'd read it. That, or from the library). I'm quarter-way through it, and bored. I continue to read it because I'm trying to figure out what the clamor for it was from the beginning. I'm thinking the extreme angst. A lot of kids can relate to that. Otherwise, there are too many adverbs and dialogue tags that interrupt my reading. It's what we as writers try not to do, yet she did it and it's a runaway best seller.

Gotta be the extreme angst.

[Devil Ledbetter]

Agreed on many points, but my statement was geared towards the bashing of SMeyer personally, and after a point, professionally. "Bashing" being the operative word. Intelligent discussion is never a mistake in any circle. You can see where I have my own b*tch or two about the series.

It's the bashing of the author's personal life/personality that bugs me. I should have made that more clear.
While I admit I could have missed something in a 95-post thread, I haven't noticed any personal bashing of Smeyer here. Every criticism I see pertains strictly to her writing.

[stormie]

Okay, after p. 200 or so, it picked up speed somewhat. But this is what I've noticed about the book: it seems the first 50 to 100 pp. are written by someone else. The writing in the beginning is sloppy with an abundance of adverbs and extended dialogue tags. More tell than show also. The writing gets somewhat better as I read on.

[defyalllogic]

don't know if this has been said: DON'T LISTEN TO THE AUDIO BOOKS.

The person hired sounds almost exactly like Lacey Chabert (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000327/). It's high pitched and warbbley. that's fine because she's pretty and plays a character.... but to listen to three dense books in that voice with the character of Bella being and weak and annoying as she was... i listened mostly at work or during my commute and all right through so i guess i got used to it over time, but would definitely not recommend it.

[defyalllogic]

Okay, after p. 200 or so, it picked up speed somewhat. But this is what I've noticed about the book: it seems the first 50 to 100 pp. are written by someone else. The writing in the beginning is sloppy with an abundance of adverbs and extended dialogue tags. More tell than show also. The writing gets somewhat better as I read on.

eh, it was the first book she like ever wrote. maybe she just learned some stuff as she went along.

i wouldn't be surprised if you found the same thing in my novel.

[LadyLiterature]

My ex-best friend(no, we didn't split over this) loved Twilight; her room was full of Twilight posters, books, and other merch. She begged me to read it, and so I did. I think that the only other book I've read that I really wanted to stab myself while reading it was Wuthering Heights(no offense to anybody who likes it). Twilight doesn't deserve all of this attention. It was not worth reading, and I wasted two days of my life wallowing in the terrible story. My friend begged me to read the second, and I politely declined.

[Mistress Elysia]

I must admit, I have been influenced by others in the past when it came to my attitude to Twilight. I have not read it, but feel I should, simply so I can make my own mind up about it. I will, I expect, probably dislike it, but even so, I feel it is only fair to the author before I say it is rubbish!

Saying that, though, as a teacher of English who struggles to get teenagers to read, these books are a godsend. Kids are actually reading again! I saw a girl walking down the road with the Twilight book cover on a T-shirt - wow! Since when did a book garner such pop-culture credit? Twilight has turned a lot of people who may not have read otherwise to books (I know this 'cos they come to me for reading recommendations!). And for that reason and that reason alone, I can't knock Meyers: getting people to read is always a good thing in my book.

[lizanne]

Mistress Elysia, I agree one hundred percent.

Twilight will always hold a special place in my heart. HOLD ON! Let me explain.

I teach middle school and these books were everywhere. I refused to read them, based purely on having to deal with the preteen drama every day. I ended up changing my mind when my niece borrowed the book from a friend and didn't put it down. Then she read the rest without putting them down.

My niece has lived with me for many years and I've tried EVERYTHING to develop a love of reading in her. Both of my boys are avid readers like myself and it just broke my heart that she was missing out on so much! Since finding and loving the Twilight series she has been reading everything she can find. She is particularly fond of Patricia Briggs right now. She swears she has to read all of the time because she has so many wasted years to make up for. She has also come to me and said that now that she's read so many great authors she understands that Meyers writing wasn't the greatest, but like I said that series will always be special to me.

[KyraDune]

After watching the first two movies and not liking them, I decided I had to check out the first book to see if I could figure out how this managed to become so popular. I'm still stumped. The book was better than the movie, but still boring. It felt to me like the author was trying a little too hard to be all dark and broody, it came off a bit silly. That's only my opinion, no offense meant to the author or to those who liked the books. It's all a matter of personal taste.

[Satori1977]

Mistress Elysia, I agree one hundred percent.

Twilight will always hold a special place in my heart. HOLD ON! Let me explain.

I teach middle school and these books were everywhere. I refused to read them, based purely on having to deal with the preteen drama every day. I ended up changing my mind when my niece borrowed the book from a friend and didn't put it down. Then she read the rest without putting them down.

My niece has lived with me for many years and I've tried EVERYTHING to develop a love of reading in her. Both of my boys are avid readers like myself and it just broke my heart that she was missing out on so much! Since finding and loving the Twilight series she has been reading everything she can find. She is particularly fond of Patricia Briggs right now. She swears she has to read all of the time because she has so many wasted years to make up for. She has also come to me and said that now that she's read so many great authors she understands that Meyers writing wasn't the greatest, but like I said that series will always be special to me.

Patricia Briggs is wonderful! I love her books. Glad that your niece has found a love of reading. If she is into fantasy and paranormal romance, there are tons of books for her to choose out there. Many great YA titles, and even more adult ones depending on her age.

[mbrinton91]

No.

[Button]

Read if you are curious, drop it if it sucks. ;) I read Twilight. I have the second book, which I borrowed from my sister, but I haven't picked it up yet. It has been collecting dust for a while now.

I didn't think it was bad. It's not my favorite. I happen to like books for all ages, I don't care who it was written for, and while I have some YA and Children's favorite authors, Meyers isn't one of them.

But the book was OK, to me.

The movie could have used a little less glitter.

But honestly, the reason I picked it up was because I was talking to one girl at the check out counter, who said she read it and it was better than she thought it would be. It was an honest opinion from someone who was resistant at first but tried it. She surprised herself and ended up reading the whole series. Wasn't her favorite but she dug it enough to finish.

I can't tell anyone what to read. I totally judge books by the covers. The only real way is to just delve in and read the thing and if it isn't for you, you'll know soon enough and you can put it away.

[Citizen Cobalt]

The fourth book is interesting, I will definitely give it that. I say just start reading. If you don't like it, you at least tried it. If you do, then you get to read something you like.

The one thing I can't get over. Sparkly vampires?\

Anguished. "This is what happens when I go into the sun!"

...You sparkle? Hey, at least you don't burn and die. Just tell people you're wearing shimmery lotion or something.

[Schu]

I gave it a shot, thinking it couldn't be as bad as people were saying. ALL THESE OTHER PEOPLE LIKE IT, RIGHT?

It wasn't as bad as people were saying. It was worse.

Give it a go. It's worth reading to make yourself feel better as a writer.

[Susan Littlefield]

You should only read what you want to, and it should never be about giving in.

[BeatrixKiddo]

Sorry, duplicate post...

[BeatrixKiddo]

I used to read a book a day when I was younger. Then stress, life, depression, anxiety, etc, got a hold of me over my teenage years and I stopped reading for too many years after that. I simply couldn't retain things I read. I couldn't concentrate. (I got back into comic books for a few years awhile back after dropping them for years as well but they're quite a bit easier to retain with all the pretty pictures.)

I got the entire Twilight series for Christmas from a coworker two years back. I have to admit I couldn't figure out what all the fuss was about either, but after being on a reading hiatus for so long, I sucked up the first book (pardon the pun) as if I was a recovering alcoholic who hadn't had a drink in ages. It was the perfect book to introduce me back into reading. But I also enjoyed the books for what they are, not classic "masterpieces", but simply an enjoyable way to pass the time.

I really enjoyed all four books. I didn't mind the teenage angst because the books actually brought back good memories about a moody boy from high school that I used to pine over, when things were more simple and less complicated. I could just enjoy them as a love story unfolding, even if it's a bit of a silly one. (I was also a big vampire fan years ago, loved Anne Rice, Poppy C. Brite, etc)

I think the reason why these books are so popular is even though they may not "measure up" to some in literary history, they do what books are supposed to do...entertain us. Make us believe that another world that we might like better, could exist in our imagination somewhere.

I think they also made teen girls (and adult women) who read them feel protected which is very enticing. Edward loves Bella so much, he would give his life for her! Dramatic? Yes. A bit corny? Sure. But it's still something that many girls dream about. The brooding outsider, falling for us, and only us, and loving and protecting the girl they care about forever, and ever, and ever. Who doesn't want that? I wouldn't mind it, that's for sure. So, if I can't actually have it, or find it, I read about it happening to someone else instead. Close enough.

With the divorce rate so high, and the shocking amount of teenage girls being bullied in relationships, it's no wonder these books hit a cord with so many. We long for love, and these books give us a perfect little version of that, even if some who read them aren't a big fan of the way they are written.

I'm kind of surprised at the knocks Stephanie Meyer has taken over these books. These books got me interested in reading again, and now I'm back to reading a book in a day like years ago. For that, I will always be grateful for the Twilight books.


Just my two cents...

[kittyhoward]

The only good Twilight book in my opinion is the last one, because the whole time I sat there going "WTF? .... WTF? ... WTF?!?!" Far more enjoyable than the previous three where I just went "...oh. I see."

Honestly though, as much as I dislike the series as an adult, I have to say they're really great because they have gotten a lot of children and teenagers (and I suppose even adults!) to read again and I can't hate on that.

[CatSlave]

How Twilight Works by The Oatmeal: http://theoatmeal.com/story/twilight

Thought-provoking critique, highly recommended.
The critique, that is.

[stormie]

It took me awhile to get into the first book, then about 1/2 of the way through, I gave up and just put it aside.

One day I happened to see it on tv. I'm usually a person who prefers the book to the movie version, but this time I have to say, the movie version was far better.

[mellymel]

I'm going through this with the book Hush, Hush. My friend thought it was fab and told me to read it, then I read all these horrible things about it and it's hard to get myself to read it. I know I should read and form my own opinion, but I have yet to read it. I even had it checked out from the library and sitting on my nightstand only to turn around and return it, unread after 3 weeks.

I really enjoyed the Twilight series and honestly until all the negative hype I read here at AW regarding the series, I really loved the series (stalking, controlling, weak characterization and all).

I'm also going through this with the House of Night series. I just won the entire series on a contest and was all excited to read it until I read a thread tearing it apart. Now it's just sitting on my shelves while I find my motivation to get into it. I guess you just have to say, To each his/her own and decide for yourself. Maybe I like to read about lame, weak, self-centered, self-indulging, conceited, controlling, characters/story lines once in a while. Not sure what that says about me, but que se joda. I can only be me :)

[Sheila Muirenn]

Sorry, I didn't know where to post this among the several dozens of Twilight threads.

A friend of mine who is a fan of the series keeps gushing over it. I come with my arsenal full of bad reviews I've read on personal blogs, Amazon and AW. Still, she cracks all my defences by simply stating, "Have you read the books?" and since my answer is no she claims I have no right to dis them.

This has made me consider reading the books, so we would at least be on even grounds. But every time I think about it I remember the dreadful things I saw in the reviews: Vampires walking in daylight, an abusive immortal boyfriend, an overly obsessed, clumsy heroine, grown men "imprinting toddlers" *shudder.* Could someone please tell me if I should give it a try? Do you think my head would explode? Or is there something worthwhile in the books after all? Or perhaps all these assumptions are wrong and I shouldn't literally judge a book by its cover?

Should you read them? No! Well, okay, if you want to, then do it.


I read the first five pages on Amazon. And the poor writing was enough to turn me off. That and Bella's character. In five pages we see that she refused to visit her dad for years because it's cold and rainy in Forks, he had to take a 2 week vacation to California every year to see her. On a cop’s salary! (Yet she liveed in Phoenix). She is worried half-to-death when he tells her he got her a truck because she is afraid it won't be a 'cool' truck. This before she sees it. People in wheelchairs creep her out. She doesn't want to ride in his police car because nothing slows traffic quite so much as a cop-car. Think there was more too. But enough already.

The main character lacks: character! She is an egocentric little brat from day one.

Then you have the other side. Meyers says she doesn't want casual sex in her books. All right. But necrophilia is okay? It's okay to be weak. Dependant. Abused. Stalked. No, that's romantic. It's okay to dis your friends for the sake of some jerk abusive guy.

Then there is the writer aspect. They aren't well-written. Any writer with basic skills can see that from the first 5. It's junk food. It's just not worth the time.

Check out the first pages on Amazon. If you want to go further, fine, if not then tell your friend even reading those bothered you. (I've done the same with people, and they did leave me alone after). Though I'm not sure why, at 40, I keep getting bugged to read these things by people my own age!

Interestingly enough, I like the movies. But in the movies a lot of the character flaws in Bella are mitigated, and the visuals are appealing.

[quicklime]

Sorry, I didn't know where to post this among the several dozens of Twilight threads.

A friend of mine who is a fan of the series keeps gushing over it. I come with my arsenal full of bad reviews I've read on personal blogs, Amazon and AW. Still, she cracks all my defences by simply stating, "Have you read the books?" and since my answer is no she claims I have no right to dis them.

This has made me consider reading the books, so we would at least be on even grounds. But every time I think about it I remember the dreadful things I saw in the reviews: Vampires walking in daylight, an abusive immortal boyfriend, an overly obsessed, clumsy heroine, grown men "imprinting toddlers" *shudder.* Could someone please tell me if I should give it a try? Do you think my head would explode? Or is there something worthwhile in the books after all? Or perhaps all these assumptions are wrong and I shouldn't literally judge a book by its cover?

Make a deal: You will read one Twilight book and see if you're "hooked", if she reads a "real" vampire book, like The Strain or Agyar, in return. Then you both get something from it.

My daughter has the Twilight books, reading the prologue and a few pages it seems the writing is weak on technique, but it obviously makes up for that in ability to hit a certain chord--just not mine. There are poorly written books I happen to like, and a number of mediocre books I also like, where the story and pacing make up for a multitude of sins.

[quicklime]

I will add, as an aside, I have always been a strong proponent of reading some bad books along with the good (I see King also recommends the same in On Writing) as it does wonders for showing you what does NOT work, so you could consider it "homework" to read one.

some others disagree and say you should only read truly great lit, but by analogy, that would be like only investigating cars that pass the crash test, instead of looking into why the XXX-brand Zandalee wound up with the steering wheel crushing the driver's lap in a 5 mph crash or the YYYY Digio rolled over at 15 mph out in the cones....to me why a book fails is at least as important as why another soars. I may not ever hit the point of "soaring", but I damn sure want to get my head above the slush, so I'm more interested in the lower cutoff bar......