Here are the mathmatics of publishing--are you profitable?

[james1611]

Here is some great information I found...

Check out the article and see what you think!--Authors, are you profitable??

http://www.sfwa.org/bulletin/articles/profit-motive.html


--James

[RedMolly]

Ouch... nothing like seeing a beautiful dream reduced to cold, hard numbers.

Great information--thanks for posting it!

[james1611]

Ouch... nothing like seeing a beautiful dream reduced to cold, hard numbers.

Great information--thanks for posting it!

I know what you mean Red...Even being a mid-lister at a big publishing house just doesn't have the same ring to it when you look at the cold hard facts of money made vs. money lost.


"hey I'm a new author at a big publisher...yeah they're gonna lose $19,000 dollars on my upcoming book--cool man!!"
:ROFL:

Maybe we should all try out for American Idol? :flag:


--james

[Penguin Queen]

It's not all about money....

[PeeDee]

The joy of writing means that I look at that list, at my place on it...and then I nod, go "huh." and go back to writing.

This is why you've gotta be writing for the joy of the thing, for the love of it. You sure as hell aren't scribbling your way to owning a Carribbean island. And even if you do, you'll breathe the salty air once or twice, then go into a dark little writer's cabin and keep hammering away.

[IrishScribbler]

The joy of writing means that I look at that list, at my place on it...and then I nod, go "huh." and go back to writing.

Amen.


I don't write to make money or necessarily to get published (although I do want to be published). I write because I'm a writer.

[PeeDee]

That is not to say that if someone said "I will give you a wheelbarrow of money for your book," I would say anything like "I can't take that now, I'm busy writing!"

Honest. Anyone out there with gobs of money, remember, I'm willing to take it. My artistic integrity won't suffer for it.

[Penguin Queen]

That is not to say that if someone said "I will give you a wheelbarrow of money for your book," I would say anything like "I can't take that now, I'm busy writing!"

Honest. Anyone out there with gobs of money, remember, I'm willing to take it. My artistic integrity won't suffer for it.

Oh, indeed so.
And it's not as though I'm not trying to make a living from it.
All I'm saying is, some of the best books ever written have made their author tuppence, & there's some awful shite out there that somebody is getting paid oddles for. *sigh*

*runs back to write hopefully-moneyspinning-WIP*

[Pat~]

Interesting info, James. And though writing isn't about money, unfortunately, getting a book contract is. Thanks for the reminder!

[james1611]

Interesting info, James. And though writing isn't about money, unfortunately, getting a book contract is. Thanks for the reminder!

Actually I'm not writing for money either, but with all of the debates on how going POD or with a small press or self publishing, isn't worthwhile and getting books distributed, and on store shelves and all that is said with regard to those subjects--

I just thought this article really put things in perspective. Even if you get your book distributed and spine out on some independent bookstore shelf or even lost in the thousands of offerings in a chain...it still doesn't equate with success--at least not monetarily.

That's one reason why I'm not worried about being with a small press, I'm just glad someone enjoys my work and felt strongly enough to back it and publish it. And for those who self publish or otherwise...It's not going to make you rich, but you probably wouldn't do that even if you were with a big house as a new or even mid-list author. Your still a liability for the most part...
I realize there are differences, especially in perception, but it looks like most of the published novelists are not on the high and mighty list of those pulling in big profits for their publisher.

It still takes reader interest to sell books and writing them should still be about the joy of writing first--because you probably won't hit the big time even with a bigger publisher, (though your odds are better).

--James

[Codger]

Sounds like the only ones who will make out okay on every book are the printers/prodction, shippers and cover artists. The author is almost incidental to the total cost of the book.

Unfortunately I can't produce cover art. So I'll keep writing for the short end of the money.

[spacejock2]

It's not all about money....

It is to the publishers, otherwise they'd all go broke.

[james1611]

It is to the publishers, otherwise they'd all go broke.

I think that the publishers are really only publishing the "pond", hoping for the next whale to hit their hook.

Otherwise they're just breaking even or losing money on everyone else.

It's the Pattersons, Kings and Rowlings that actually put the bread on their plates!!

--james

[DeborahM]

It's the Pattersons, Kings and Rowlings that actually put the bread on their plates!!

--james

That's why the publishing houses can afford to accept new writers.

Yep, sorry to say it's true, but look at the satisfaction and completion we are feeling while writing. However, that hasn't put food on the empty plate, but I haven't been this happy and satisified in years.

You have to remember the King's, Rowling's, Clancy's and Grishim's also made their money through film rights, too!

[Shadow_Ferret]

Writing isn't about the money? Then why am I bothering? Self-satisfaction? Pfft.

I intend to see it published someday and make money.

[Penguin Queen]

Writing isn't about the money? Then why am I bothering? Self-satisfaction? Pfft.

I intend to see it published someday and make money.


But being published and making money isn't necessarily the same thing. Depends rather what you're writing.

I dont know about the US, but in the UK there are a number of small, literary and / or poetry presses that get financial support from the Arts Council, ie. public funding, which makes them a bit more independent from the demands of "the market", & gives them a bit more artistic freedom.
They can't afford to pay their writers very much, but at least they give you the satisfaction of being published. And the chance to build a reputation & hopefully get accepted by a bigger publisher with the next book.

[maestrowork]

Yes, some day I'd like to be richer than JK Rowling because that means millions of people would be reading my stuff. Until then, I just love to write stories people actually read. Is that so hard?

[Shadow_Ferret]

But being published and making money isn't necessarily the same thing. Depends rather what you're writing.

I dont know about the US, but in the UK there are a number of small, literary and / or poetry presses that get financial support from the Arts Council, ie. public funding, which makes them a bit more independent from the demands of "the market", & gives them a bit more artistic freedom.
They can't afford to pay their writers very much, but at least they give you the satisfaction of being published. And the chance to build a reputation & hopefully get accepted by a bigger publisher with the next book.

I don't want the satisfaction of being published. I want money. If I can't get my book published by a real firm, then I'll toss it. I dont need to satisfy my ego. My ego knows I can write. I need to satisfy my wallet. No, I don't have any expectations of being rich or even making a living at it, but I'd at least like to have enough where I can consider it supplemental income.

[PeeDee]

I don't want the satisfaction of being published. I want money. If I can't get my book published by a real firm, then I'll toss it. I dont need to satisfy my ego. My ego knows I can write. I need to satisfy my wallet. No, I don't have any expectations of being rich or even making a living at it, but I'd at least like to have enough where I can consider it supplemental income.

I write partially because I adore writing, and I write because I love to read. I love writing something that people read. It just makes me happy. I'm at loose ends if I'm not fufilling some of these conditions. If I'm not, then I'd better be reading something myself, or I get twitchy.

Even if no one paid me a cent to write, I would be down in the storefront window of Books Revisited, the local used bookshop, where I would be writing stories page by page on a typewriter and then taping them up on the window for people to read.

I like writing, I like reading. Getting published does not thrill me because I can say "I am a published author!" Who am I going to say that to? I could tell the gentleman next to me on the bus "I am a published author through a traditional publishing company, and I have just won an award!" and he's going to say something like, "Yeh', bu' I got this'n itch right here, fr'm my surgery...." And not care a bit.

The nice thing about getting paid to write is that I therefore don't have to work somewhere else for a living, which means I can write more.

[Penguin Queen]

<..:>
I like writing, I like reading. Getting published does not thrill me because I can say "I am a published author!"

I write because I love writing, too.
I also love the thrill of getting published, and yes, I like to brag about it a bit. ;)

But the satisfaction for me comes more from knowing, as maestrowork said, that poeple are going to read my stories. That is why I write them. And that is why I would (and quite possibly will) go on writing them even if nobody is ever going to pay me more than a small hill of beans for 'em.

And I guess it's to do with my small slice of immortality, having my stories survive me (I bloody well hope!). It woudl be much more terrible to see everything go out of print (ha - everything she says, a couple of short stories in anthologies & the first book to come next year, still, you see what I mean) -- ...much more terrible to see everything go out of print before I'm even dead, than not to get paid for it.

I guess I'm eccentric. :D

[DeborahM]

I like writing, I like reading. Getting published does not thrill me because I can say "I am a published author!" Who am I going to say that to? I could tell the gentleman next to me on the bus "I am a published author through a traditional publishing company, and I have just won an award!" and he's going to say something like, "Yeh', bu' I got this'n itch right here, fr'm my surgery...." And not care a bit.

The nice thing about getting paid to write is that I therefore don't have to work somewhere else for a living, which means I can write more.

That's great! And the guy on the bus is going to ask you, "Then why are you riding the bus?"


I love to write, and will continue until I too am published and be paid for it. I believe if you love to write you will, being published and being paid for it eventually comes and I can write more, like you said PeeDee. Ego, not for me, otherwise I'd use my real name instead of a pen.

[Shadow_Ferret]

I'm sure everyone has heard this at one time or another. I think it has a grain of truth. I'm at stage 3. Show me the money. ;)

Writers are like prostitutes.
First they do it for love.
Then they do it for their friends.
Then they do it for money.

[Silverhand]

Great look at what larges presses go through, especially those that deal with entire print runs.

I know that I have already done my own P&L sheet, trying to decide way back in the day if it would be profitable for me to self-pub.

What I would like to see are two similar statements: one that shows the intricacies of publishing via POD tech, and the other showing the same methods going the self-pub route.

Anyways, great info James!!