lesbian fiction

[EndlessDestiny]

I wasn't really sure where to put this, so feel free to move it.

Anyway, I mainly write stories about lesbians and sci-fi/fantasy stories. The main book I'm currently writing has both. I was wondering how difficult you all think it is to get a book containing subject matter like that published. There's nothing graphic in it, but I don't know how difficult it will be.

[alleycat]

You might want to repost that in the Erotica forum, Endless. The folks there should be able to answer your question.

And welcome to AW.

[veinglory]

Well, it's not necessarily erotic. may take on it is that you will probably to best to market as sci fi. There is a very strong tradition of sf protagionists with various sexualities. I know that Tor is totally open to this and have read lesbian heroines from various fantasy and sci fi presses... let's see that would include Sphere, Tor and Daw.

If that doesn't work out there are also a lot of queer and specifically lesbian presses that will consider spec fic.

[mathprof1]

I wasn't really sure where to put this, so feel free to move it.

Anyway, I mainly write stories about lesbians and sci-fi/fantasy stories. The main book I'm currently writing has both. I was wondering how difficult you all think it is to get a book containing subject matter like that published. There's nothing graphic in it, but I don't know how difficult it will be.

I'm writing a lesbian romance novel that does not qualify as erotica either. I have been engaged in extensive research via the internet.
Try http://www.artemispress.com. This company publishes lesbian short stories and novellas.

Good luck!

[maestrowork]

Either fantasy or GLBT fiction -- there are markets for it and you just need to find the right agent/publisher.

[Xopher]

Well, one does see these types of books in the mainstream. Just look at the Vorkosigan Saga by Lois McMaster Bujold; or the Kushiel Trilogy (now four books long) by Jacqueline Carey.

Two examples, although I can't vouch for the difficulty of the sale of either.

[Alan Yee]

That's similar to what I'm writing at the moment. Mine fits under dark fantasy/horror, and (most) of the characters are bisexual/gay males, with a few heterosexual females that are very important to the overall plot. I've read various SF/Fantasy stories and novels with characters of a variety of sexualities, so it's not completely unheard of.

[James D. Macdonald]

Go down to the bookstore. Buy a dozen recent books in your genre(s). Read them.

Your questions will be anwswered.

[Marlys]

Another place to look: go to the site for the Lambda Literary Foundation (http://www.lambdaliterary.org/index.html), which has given out gay/lesbian book awards since the late 1980s. SF has been included right from the start, and the site lists every book that's ever made the finals--with its press. Browsing the SF (and other fiction categories) for the last few years will give you a good idea of who might be interested.

[Sassenach]

I'm writing a lesbian romance novel that does not qualify as erotica either. I have been engaged in extensive research via the internet.




How's that research going for you? :>

[Forbidden Snowflake]

You might want to repost that in the Erotica forum, Endless. The folks there should be able to answer your question.


Please tell me. How come you come from Lesbian/Sci-Fi to Erotica? I'm speechless, what is on your mind? :ROFL:

But, I was wondering how that sells, is it a minus or not? If for example you write a romance with lesbians.. like, let's say you take a well selling romance story and change the couple from hetero to gay, would it still sell the same way? Or is it a problem?

[veinglory]

Well it isn't a great leap as many writers on this board who do write gay protagnists do hang out on the erotica forum.

My impression, reifnorced by hearing a Tor editor speak, is that non-heterosexual characters not not an problem for sales in sci fi/fant. I certainly know there is a long tradition and a number of titles out there right now.

In terms of romance it is a smaller market, smaller even than gay male romance as far as I can tell--but there are excellent small to medium lesbina presses that sell very respectably.

[willietheshakes]

And I'll present the opposing viewpoint to C.L. Richardson: in my mind, the greatest potential liability to your book's success is that "there's nothing graphic in it".

Maybe that's just me, though.

[Marlys]

In terms of romance it is a smaller market, smaller even than gay male romance as far as I can tell.That's interesting--I've heard the opposite. Both my agent and the owner of my city's local glbt bookstore say the lesbian romance market is much bigger and better established, with well-known "name" authors like Radclyffe and Karin Kallmaker who have been producing for years.

Check out, for instance, Bella Books' romance listings (http://shop-host.net/cgi-bin/miva.cgi?Merchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=bella3&Category_Code=br), which run to over a hundred titles. I can't think of a publisher offering anywhere near those kinds of numbers for m/m romance.

[veinglory]

I am probably biased in my perceptions by reading a lot of gay romance--but these books (although meeting the defintion of romance) are typically marketed erotic, literary or humorous/farce. (c.f. romentics and the whole slash thing).

As for dissapointment--I often buy a book that I am sure will have a gay character and find they end up with the girl. Life is full of little disappointments but the blurb copy is not always under the authors control. Let's keep discussions of what may or may not be a sin out of it. That isn't a flame, just saying that stating a preference to know in advanace is fine--stating an opinion that some of us are sinners *is* off topic and in MHO you might consider editing it out of this thread. The subject heading up there is pretty clear.

[maestrowork]

I agree with Veinglory. Unless the gay content is relevant to marketing, it's up to the publisher to decide if they need to say "Character X is a lesbian." And, you can say you don't like to read books with homosexual characters or themes, but try not to inflame the discussion by using words such as "sinners." This thread is about markets, not whether homosexuality is good or bad. Thanks.

[MidnightMuse]

I'd say, humble opinion here, that whether or not the characters are gay or lesbian isn't nearly as important as whether or not the story is good.

If the story I'm reading is fantastic, I'm not gonna care one way or the other what their preference is. Unless you are writing an erotica, then it might come in to play one way or the other. But it sounds to me like you're writing an SF and your characters happen to be lesbian.

Like any gathering of humans on the planet. I'd worry more about writing a great story and let your agent care if they're straight or gay. It shouldn't matter.

[James D. Macdonald]

The author has little-to-no control over the back-cover blurb on a book. If someone is disappointed by a book, though, the blurb writer didn't do his job: the purpose of the blurb, the cover art, the front sales line, and so on, is to tell potential readers "This is a book'll like, if you like this kind of book."

To use an analogy: if what you're selling in the supermarket is Tangy Hot Sauce, it's a good idea to say "tangy," "hot," and "sauce" right on the label. Maybe with a picture of a chili pepper on it, and a graphic of a fire alarm sounding.

That way the folks who want a hot sauce will find it and buy it, while the folks who want cake frosting won't make a dreadful discovery when they open the can.

[veinglory]

I'd say, humble opinion here, that whether or not the characters are gay or lesbian isn't nearly as important as whether or not the story is good.

This is what the Tor editor I spoke to said. SAhe also said that the level of actual sex was not really importnant--although my observations suggest that not too many books shelved sf/fant are all that explict (there are a few exceptions).

[TeddyG]

I have no clue if this helps:

In a recent short story of mine (and I do not write Erotica..VeinGlory and others are the Masters or Mistresses of that genre and you should ask them) I did have an intense erotic part within. On querying two editors that I know, one on the net and another in print mags, both said almost the exact same thing.

They don't want a story that is Erotica but they certainly don't mind any erotica that is part of a story. As an example one sent me a long section from a sci-fi story with erotica they published which made me blush!!!!!!!

Keep in mind as well that the Gor series (horribly written but has a devoted cult following and those who believe in Gorean sexual ways), began to be published in the 60's (I think) and certainly contains deep though veiled erotica throughout. And that is just one example. The marriage of erotic and/or lesbian, gay or whatever with sci-fi/fantasy has already been done numerous times and has worked for many.

So I think, keyword here is think, that Lesbian, Homosexual whatever, is just the way your character is. It would be like saying your protganist is "heterosexual". I don't really see any problem here.

As to the Publishing houses and/or agents. I think any agent dealing with sci-fi/fantasy will certainly consider such a book.

And yes, please leave the religious arguments out of the thread. They are so beginning to bore me.

And..most important....good luck with your writing!

[Medievalist]

My impression, reifnorced by hearing a Tor editor speak, is that non-heterosexual characters not not an problem for sales in sci fi/fant. I certainly know there is a long tradition and a number of titles out there right now.

It's been not-a-big-deal since sometime in the sixties, frankly.

When you're positioning a work in a query, keep in mind that all genres exist on a specturm, not as a series of binary choices. Ask yourself is your work predominantly a romance, SF, erotica? Who are the readers mostly likely to like it? What else is it like? What publishers have published similar works.

And, while I know most genres exist on a spectrum, please don't refer to more than two, and please don't do the list of genres and themes with slashes.

[emeraldcite]

Let's keep this on track. Remember the rules:

1. Respect your fellow writer.
2. Play nice.

Thanks!

[writeperch]

Bottom line: Write a dang good story. An editor will take it.

[EndlessDestiny]

Thanks for all the responses everyone. I've read quite a few sci-fi/fantasy novels that have lesbian characters in them (yay for used book stores) and young adult fiction and adult fiction with lesbian characters in them, so I know that there is a market for it. I have time till I need to start looking for a publisher though. I still need to finish my book. It doesn't sound as hard as I thought it would be do find someone willing to publish the book though.

[C. L. Richardson]

Was my post deleted?

All I said was that some people would be offended to find out halfway through a book that the main characters are gay. Not everyone thinks homosexuality is right or ok, so you need to let the readers know what kind of content your book has.

[Forbidden Snowflake]

Was my post deleted?

All I said was that some people would be offended to find out halfway through a book that the main characters are gay. Not everyone thinks homosexuality is right or ok, so you need to let the readers know what kind of content your book has.

Not it got its own thread in TIO ;)

[veinglory]

Yes, it was a new topic--it needed a new thread. Otherwise someone might come in here looking to talk about lesbian fiction and find the thread was in fact about something else entirely and get a nasty surprise.

[emeraldcite]

Was my post deleted?

All I said was that some people would be offended to find out halfway through a book that the main characters are gay. Not everyone thinks homosexuality is right or ok, so you need to let the readers know what kind of content your book has.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36905

Your post was moved here, along with posts that responded to it.

I understand that you think some folks may be offended by the content of the book, but that goes for any book.

Think of it this way: how many books have the warning: "this book contains heterosexual characters"?

How many books contain a warning: "this character may make, at times, morally ambiguous choices in order to advance the plot"?

None do.

This is why your post was moved to another thread: the OP's topic was not a debate about the moral, theological, or philosophical aspects of gay characters, it was about the difficulty of getting something with that subject matter published.

I understand that you wanted to point out that some would be offended. That is valid.

Tying it to religious argumentation opens a can of worms that have sunk threads into oblivion before. I was stopping that before it happened.

[reph]

Mr. (Ms.? Dr.? Lt. Col., ret'd?) Richardson, look at it this way. Suppose someone posts "How can I get a Western novel published?" and another person replies "I never read Westerns because I can't stand the violence. All that shooting and hanging! The Old West was an immoral place." Well, the second person is entitled to his tastes in reading, but his post doesn't fit into the discussion. It's about something else.

It's even worse if the second person posts that current residents of western states are bad people. He might have predicted that some of them would frequent this board and would rightly take offense. Then there are those who take offense because they have friends and relatives in Wyoming or Nevada. There are others who have no particular connection to the West but take offense because they don't like to see any group disparaged.

Don't tell me you couldn't have guessed how people would respond to your post.

[Penguin Queen]

...
Anyway, I mainly write stories about lesbians and sci-fi/fantasy stories. The main book I'm currently writing has both. I was wondering how difficult you all think it is to get a book containing subject matter like that published. There's nothing graphic in it, but I don't know how difficult it will be.

I want to read this!! I love lesbian sci-fi stuff.
If yours is more lesbian than scifi, you coudl try for example Rising Tide Press, they publish the "Isis" books by Jean Steward, which I find perfect light reading. Mmm. All those tough toothsome heroines. :D

Also this website http://www.glbtfantasy.com/ might be some use.
Good luck, & do let me know when it's out, I mean it! I want to read it.

[Joanna_S]

I've done some editing for Cavalier Press. (http://www.cavalierpress.com/) They're a nice bunch. I don't know that they do much sci fi, but for the person writing a romance (was it EndlessRewrite? I would check but my laziness factor is high today) that's the bulk of their list. There are a lot of lesbian romance publishers, actually. It's a hot subject right now.


-- Joanna

[Jenan Mac]

Here are a couple of links that might be helpful:

http://www.creative-women.com/resources/publishing.html
http://www.boldstrokesbooks.com/newsletter.html
http://www.alyson.com/

There's a bunch of other stuff I don't have handy right now, but if you search "radclyffe" or "lori lake" and surf from there, it's possible to come up with a number of glbt publishing information, should you want to go for that niche.

Caveat: the third has links to some fairly explicitly-titled books on its first page; I didn't personally find it offensive but it seemed to require a "don't open this in front of a six year old who reads really well" warning.

[gp101]

There's a huge so-called "gay market" and as long as the writing is good, you'll find a home for your project. But how big are your aspirations? Though some stories with gay themes (or gay characters with non-gay themes) may break out, there isn't a whole lot of mainstream or best-seller titles with such. Half the country is blue, half is red. If your intentions are to reach the biggest audience you can, a well-written story with no gay characters or themes will offend few. But one with gay characters or themes risks alienating at least a good portion of the red states. That said, I've read novels where a female lead is lesbian or bi, but in a "lipstick lesbian" way, and it becomes more titilating than anything else. Don't know if the same popularity for said novels would occur if the story was about the characters falling in love, rather than just engaging in gay trysts.

Write the story that your passions dictate. If the characters or themes are gay, then don't hide it. But with all themes, don't preach it either. And keep socio-political trends in mind in regards to your expectations of its reception. Above all, make sure the writing is damn good.

PS just finished The Black Dahlia by Ellroy recently. Lebians play a key role in that book, though it was more about the sintilating than the love. Regardless of the lesbian passages, still one of my new favorite books... because of the writing.

[Novelist in Paradise]

google Mary Lynn Reed. She's a professional mathematician and a cyber colleague of mine who writes practically all her free time. I predict she will soon make a name in the world of literary fiction.

[veinglory]

Not many best sellers? Elizabeth Lynn, Fiona Patton, Mercedes Lackey, Tanya Huff, Lynn Flewelling, David Feintuch, Ellen Kushner, Marion Zimmer Bradley and Storm Constantine don't count? In fantasy and sci fi gay is mainstream.

[Medievalist]

When you're writing about people who travel in time, build cities with magic, fly on dragons, aliens who may not reproduce sexually at all, aliens who mate in triads, aliens who have three or more sexes, human cultures that forbid heterosexuality, human cultures that have multiple forms of marriage, giant talking birds that change sex at maturity . . .

I don't think homosexual characters are a problem.

It's also lovely to see homesexuality as just another trait, like being Swedish.

[Jenan Mac]

But one with gay characters or themes risks alienating at least a good portion of the red states.


Even if I changed my gay couple to the straightest people on earth, I'd offend somebody in a red state. My politician is a (gasp) Democrat.;)

[EndlessDestiny]

I want to read this!! I love lesbian sci-fi stuff.
If yours is more lesbian than scifi, you coudl try for example Rising Tide Press, they publish the "Isis" books by Jean Steward, which I find perfect light reading. Mmm. All those tough toothsome heroines. :D


I've been meaning to read Jean Steward's books. (If only I could find them)

My book takes place in our world, but there are demons, witches, magic, things like that. I've actually got quite a few story ideas. :D All of which have lesbian main characters and magic. Well, one's very sci-fi. Hopefully I'll finish my first one sometime soon.

[Alan Yee]

My book takes place in our world, but there are demons, witches, magic, things like that. I've actually got quite a few story ideas. :D All of which have lesbian main characters and magic. Well, one's very sci-fi. Hopefully I'll finish my first one sometime soon.

Wow, that is very similar to my df/horror WIP. Mine takes place in the real world, modern-day, but the main focus is on demons with human bodies who have mated with humans, creating half-demons, quarter-demons, etc. Those descended from the demon race in my story tend to have bisexual preferences (hence, most of the characters are bi, or gay, as the story mostly mentions the gay relationships). They have their own supernatural, psychic powers.

The wife of the character who's been kidnapped is secretly a human-demon mix herself, and she has strong seer/sorceress powers passed down to her from some of her ancestral lines. So you could call her part witch.

Okay, I'll stop before I give away the whole story before I've even finished it. Your book sounds interesting. I've never actually read a book with lesbians as main characters, but I'm open to it.

I'm afraid, though, that the bisexuality, demons, and sorceress/witch thing in my WIP might make me sound like Anne Rice, whose books I've read, although so far, my combo does not sound like any of her existing books.

[Jenan Mac]

Okay, I'll stop before I give away the whole story before I've even finished it. Your book sounds interesting. I've never actually read a book with lesbians as main characters, but I'm open to it.

I'm afraid, though, that the bisexuality, demons, and sorceress/witch thing in my WIP might make me sound like Anne Rice, whose books I've read, although so far, my combo does not sound like any of her existing books.

It'd be interesting to compare the various stories, given how many paranormal/dark fantasy with gay folks novels we have going here. I'd bet they're probably nothing alike. (Mine leans, I think, more toward the bastard child of Faulkner and Alice Hoffmann, possibly wearing sensible shoes.)

[katiemac]

It's also lovely to see homesexuality as just another trait, like being Swedish.

I agree. I've read quite a few novels where sexuality is often just an excuse because the author needed a "conflict" for the character.

[Alan Yee]

It'd be interesting to compare the various stories, given how many paranormal/dark fantasy with gay folks novels we have going here. I'd bet they're probably nothing alike. (Mine leans, I think, more toward the bastard child of Faulkner and Alice Hoffmann, possibly wearing sensible shoes.)

I've actually noticed that dark fantasy tends to have more of that. When I described my WIP in the chatroom, someone told me mine was Poppy Brite meets Lovecraft, both of whom I'm sorry to say I haven't read. I just said Anne Rice because I actually haven't read too many other paranormal with gay folks novels. I'm just writing it the way I would write it.

Are there any particular books I should read to get a better sense of other books in this sub-genre of sorts? I can't think of too many off the top of my head.

[veinglory]

Probably Storm Constantine would be another.

[Penguin Queen]

I've been meaning to read Jean Steward's books. (If only I could find them)
....

Try here (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0962893862/sr=1-6/qid=1154517106/ref=sr_1_6/026-7074936-6742023?ie=UTF8&s=books) ;)
And good luck with the writing.

[Diana Hignutt]

In my novel, Empress of Clouds (Behler), the two main characters are lesbians (and they're married). The book got some award nods (2004 ForeWord Magazine Book of the Year Award Finalist, 2005 Independent Publishers IPPY Award Semi-Finalist, 2005 Spectrum Award Nominee) and a big review from Publishers Weekly. As others have said, in fantasy or science fiction, "alternative" lifestyles are commonplace.