What word processor/writing software do you use?

[JumpingJack]

Ive been struggling to find something im happy with for quite a while now.
I used MS Word for a while but i wanted a chapter/page/parapgraphs list visible at the same time, a bit like a pdf allows an "index"

The closest ive found to this is Roughdraft, which gives you a file list panel that you can use, but it doesnt have the page formatting of MS Word.

Now im back to just using MS Word and saving everything in different files, so I can have a file list open (just a windows directory folder) and still have the formatting.

I like to format the page to aproximately the size of an actual novel rather than standard A4. For some reason it helps me to visualise the story better if I'm writing straight onto a novel page, or at least feel like I am. I hope that makes sense.

If any of you have any good programs you could point me at, preferably ones with a "try br fore you buy" option. I'd love to give some others a go.

[Bufty]

Hi Jumping Jack,

I'm sure you'll get replies here, but check this recent thread out - it touches on this question, too.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35306

I like to format the page to aproximately the size of an actual novel rather than standard A4. For some reason it helps me to visualise the story better if I'm writing straight onto a novel page, or at least feel like I am. I hope that makes sense. To me? Sorry, No. .:Shrug: Unless you just mean the usual formatting with 25 lines double-spaced, and 1" margins.

[Nashelle]

I can't say what to try only not waht to try. New Novelist is a waste of time. Actually there's nothing to beat MS word but type writing software free downloads (or such like) into your search engine and you should find free trials easy enough.

[Shadow_Ferret]

If you turn on "document map" in MS Word it allows for a listing on the side. Not sure if that's what you mean. I use it to show my chapters and subchapters so I can jump around in my story when editing.

[Medievalist]

In MS Word, look at the View menu, and choose Document Map.

Use the Section command to begin each chapter on a new page.

Use a Heading style to name the chapter. MSWord does exactly what you want.

[JumpingJack]

*switches on document map*
*adds a heading*
*watches word do exactly what he wants it to do*

*bangs head on table*

I knew that was there! honest!

[Bufty]

Given you a Rep point to ease the pain, JJ. You'll find it by left-clicking on USERCP at the left end of the blue line at the top of this thread. :snoopy:

*switches on document map*
*adds a heading*
*watches word do exactly what he wants it to do*
*bangs head on table*
I knew that was there! honest!

[Jamesaritchie]

I recently bought a new laptop. It's made of mahogany and was built around 1840. I can take it anywhere, and it never needs plugged in or recharging. With it, I use Luddite Word Processon 4.0. Namely, lined paper and a Penmate Duo Expert mechanical pencil loaded with .05mm 4B lead.

When the time comes to transfer things to the computer, I pick a word processor. Traditionally, I've waffled between the latest version of Word and WordPerfect. I have Word 2007 and WordPerfect X3, but Word 2007 is a huge change in the gui, and it's all I could ask for, so I'm using it full time.

I just learned, duh, that it's possible to read my first draft into Word using a dictation program. It's faster and more accurate than my lousy typing, so I'm trying this now, and so far it's working very well.

But I really wish you could still submit things in longhand. It's the wetware that counts, not the software.

[argenianpoet]

But I really wish you could still submit things in longhand. It's the wetware that counts, not the software.

Provided that hand-writing is legible, right? Do you mean with a quill? That's funny.

[blacbird]

I tend to worry more about what words I use.

caw.

[argenianpoet]

In MS Word, look at the View menu, and choose Document Map.

Use the Section command to begin each chapter on a new page.

Use a Heading style to name the chapter. MSWord does exactly what you want.

I always save each chapter into a new document, because if you are not careful your one document will get too big and glitch like mine did, but that was before I discovered the fact that you make them separate word documents and save them all in the same folder. Furthermore, you can go to Insert, Page Numbers, Format and type in the page number so it coincides with the other separate word documents and it don't start back over from 1, got it? This way, you will never lose your writing to excryption; believe me it sucks royally!

[Shadow_Ferret]

...a Penmate Duo Expert mechanical pencil loaded with .05mm 4B lead.



A mechanical pencil! You futurist you!

[Jamesaritchie]

Provided that hand-writing is legible, right? Do you mean with a quill? That's funny.

I have written with a goose feather quill I cut myself. That's Luddite Word Processor 1.0. Works just fine. Gives you time to think while dipping, too.

Shoot, if Shelby Foote could write all those long Civil War books with a dip pen, who am I to say it isn't the best way.

[Jamesaritchie]

A mechanical pencil! You futurist you!

I know. Sigh. I have written with a goose feather quill. Still do every now and then. Or with a steel dip pen. And I love glass dip pens. I have even made my own paper, my own ink, and written stories by candlelight and by lantern. Though this extreme was largely to get a sense of what it was really like for one of my characters to sit down and write letters.

And I have several thousand woodcase pencils, nearly all Ticonderoga #2s, the traditional pencil of the writer (Though I prefer the black over the yellow), but my poor old hands are barely functional, so I had to upgrade to a more modern writing instrument for day to day use. The Penmate is very light, has a custom grip, and doesn't hurt my hand.

[MidnightMuse]

Wow, longhand? ahhh, those were the days. The days when no one, including myself, could read a single word I'd written down. I'm cursed with "bad penmanship", struggled with it all my school-girl days until I learned it was not fixable.

Thank heavens for keyboards, and typing 90wmp :D

[Jamesaritchie]

Wow, longhand? ahhh, those were the days. The days when no one, including myself, could read a single word I'd written down. I'm cursed with "bad penmanship", struggled with it all my school-girl days until I learned it was not fixable.

Thank heavens for keyboards, and typing 90wmp :D

You just have to slow down and draw the letters. There are still a decent bunch of pro writers who do first drafts in longhand.

To my mind, the 90wpm, or even 40wpm, the writing keeping up with thoughts, is one of the biggest disadvantages of a keyboard. First thoughts are seldom the best thoughts. Other disadvantages are the easy of cut and paste and editing in first draft. These are great things for final draft work, but I think they all hurt first drafts.

Slowing down, writing neatly, ten or twelve words per minute, lets my mind stay way out in front of my hand, which is where it belongs.

[JonMoeller]

My handwriting looks like I dipped a spider in ink, set in on fire, and let it run across the page. So that's out.

I'm aware that calligraphy is an art, and that some people prefer handwriting for any number of valid reasons, but man, it has no romance for me. I always think about medieval monks, who spent days painstakingly laying out a page, drawing the Latin characters, painting the illuminations, months and months of work for a book maybe nine people would read. I suspect if you showed, say, an 11-th century Benedictine monk Microsoft Publisher, he'd run screaming into the 21st century and never look back.

As for word-processing software. It depends on which machine I happen to be using. On Windows XP, currently I use the beta of Office 2007, since the GUI is a major step forward. When I'm running Linux, it's OpenOffice Writer 2.0. And when I'm on OS X, I use TextEdit, which is surprisingly well-endowed in the feature department.

My word processing needs are fairly minimal. You can do Standard Manuscript Format with TextEdit alone.

-JM

[Medievalist]

When you take paleography classes, they make you begin by preparing your own ink, quills, scraper, liner, and vellum. There's a clear line of inheirtance between the ms. and layout and the digital screen and layout that's somehow comforting to me.

[MidnightMuse]

Oh believe me, I don't actually write at 90wmp ! I type as slowly as I would write by hand, because I have to think of the words. Muscle/tendon issues keep me from holding a pen for more than 5 minutes at a time, with an hour inbetween - that is not condusive to writing! I wish I'd developed as a left handed writer as a kid, that would have solved the issue.

But no - speed does not make for good writing, only speedier copying after edits (which I can manage by hand for the most part) I find when I'm reading my work for edits, it must be via printed page.

[Medievalist]

I always save each chapter into a new document, because if you are not careful your one document will get too big and glitch like mine did, but that was before I discovered the fact that you make them separate word documents and save them all in the same folder. Furthermore, you can go to Insert, Page Numbers, Format and type in the page number so it coincides with the other separate word documents and it don't start back over from 1, got it? This way, you will never lose your writing to excryption; believe me it sucks royally!

You can also use a Master Document, but this is not something to be indulged in by the faint hearted; they love to become corrupted.

[JonMoeller]

When you take paleography classes, they make you begin by preparing your own ink, quills, scraper, liner, and vellum. There's a clear line of inheirtance between the ms. and layout and the digital screen and layout that's somehow comforting to me.

Very true. I am, however, quite grateful I don't have to go out and butcher a pig every time I need a sheet of vellum.

And backups! </obvious>Backups of computer documents are insanely important.<obvious/> I usually rotate between a pair of external hard drives and a number of flash drives, and I also make burned CDs every so often. I also make a point to save an extra copy in RTF format, in case the main document becomes corrupt.

That was another thing about handwriting that always bugged me. If you have a proper backup scheme and your computer dies, it's a pain, but not the end of the world. If you've written the magnum opus in a stack of notebooks and somebody spills a pitcher of beer...not good.

-JM

[Nashelle]

What does document map do and how do you get it to work.

[PeeDee]

I tried to find a quote from Neil Gaiman which would have complemented this thread, and in particular Jame's posts, wonderfully. After ten minutes of fruitless searching, I can't find the damn thing, so I'll paraphrase wildly.

"When editing Sandman: Book of Dreams, one of the things I kept noticing was that stories which should have been 2,000 word things were coming to me at 6,000 word things. This is something, I realized, which is in part because of the use of computer's to write."

It was a comment in defense of why Neil writes his books and stories out by hand.

I have to admit, I agree, with him and James. My handwriting is not a beautiful thing (although it's legible, which is leaps and bounds beyond my handwriting a few years earlier) but it is a good way to get a story down. The short story in my signature right now, "...And Paint Me Beautiful, When I Die" was written entirely longhand, because I wanted to make sure I could do it. If I'd written it on the computer, I know it would have come out a great deal longer.

I find that I consider things more solidly when writing by hand. By hand, I have no idea how many words per minute I do. On computer, if I'm jazzed and the temperature is good (if it's too cold, my typing goes to hell) then I can do easily 100wpm. I'm very fast. I don't see any way in which this is a good thing.

I typically write with a Pilot Precise V5 Extra Fine tipped black pen, because it's comfortable and they're wonderful pens.

I also have a collection of very lovely fountain pens which I'm very fond of. You can do worse than writing with a solid Waterman 52 flex-nib pen.

I have a friend who writes in Word, but who first formats all his pages to 5"x8" or 6"x9" to make sure that he's writing in "novel-pages," which drives me nuts. What good is it? Since every publisher is different, you're not setting yourself any kind of standard at all. It's why I keep an eye on my wordcount but don't especially care what my page count is at anyway. I can send my page count all to hell just by changing my type font, but my word count will stay the same.

That said, when it comes to computer work, I use Word2007. I adore that program. It looks beautiful, it's comfortable to use, it lets me pin my current manuscript at the top of the "Recently Used" list, which is wonderful. It means that if I need to open a half-dozen other documents, my novel doesn't get bumped off the list and result in me having to go look for it.

I still maintain, however, that if you wrote by hand and perhaps by typewriter (manual? electric? Doesn't matter to me. I prefer electric) then you might find yourself eliminating some problems that may exist in writing. It's one of the purest ways of ensuring that you eschew surplusage.

[Jamesaritchie]

I suspect if you showed, say, an 11-th century Benedictine monk Microsoft Publisher, he'd run screaming into the 21st century and never look back.


-JM

I sure hope not, just as I dearly hope Shakespeare wouldn't abandon his quill. I think there's some pretty solid scientific evidence that Shakespeare was largely what he was, and those monks were what they were, and that a big part of the reason why both have last so long, is because of the instruments they used.

I

[PeeDee]

The Tempest would have been an eight-hour play if Shakespeare had used a Word Processor, and what would that have improved?

[Siddow]

What does document map do and how do you get it to work.

Click on View--Document Map.
I had to play with it for a little while to really figure it out, and that's what I suggest you do. Along the top, where it's got the font, size, etc., one of the boxes will say "Normal" (or Heading 1, Heading 2, Heading 3). Just click the drop-down menu there to change those. You'll see that whatever you put in Heading 1 will show up in the shaded area on the left of the screen, and whatever you put in Heading 2 will show up just beneath it, etc. I do my chapter headings in Heading 1 mode, then a brief outline/pov character in heading 2, then compose in Normal mode.

Hope that helps! And experimenting with it will teach you a lot more than I can, but this should get you started.

[Lee_OC]

Siddow, that was extremely helpful. I've never written any longer works, so I never even noticed Document Map. Thanks very much!

[JumpingJack]

This is fantastic, i was using it last night and found a wonderful use for it, plus solved my other problem of wanting a file list showing all my chapters.

I too like to keep each chapter in a separate document, and after playing arround found that i could list them all if i used the built in "search" and point it to every file in the forlder that contains my chapters. I get a file list of all of them! wohoo! The lack of a simple folder viewer has been a major gripe of mine for ages.

The document map didnt look to be that useful at the start (would be if i was keeping my whole manuscript in one file) but then i realised if i changed the font of heading 2 so it was the same as my normal font, but in bold, i could quick mark places in the chapter that i wanted to add something to or change!

Before when I was writing I would sometimes get stumped on something and sit for ages thinking of what to put there, now i just type *fix this* or *describe landscape* or *fix dialogue* and make it heading 2 and carry on as if it wasn't broken, and its in my list of stuff to go back and sort out.

Instead of my usual 500 (ish) words during my evening writing hour, last night I did 1500.

[rchastain]

For my previous novel I used my WP (not Word--I still resist the Dark Side) to create one huge document and lost endless hours scrolling text, adding up word counts, etc.

For my WIP I'm trying out a small program for fiction writers with a useful (for me) organizational format. So far it's been easy to use and much more efficient--a distinct improvement (for me) over a big, complex, over-featured WP for actual writing, rewriting and editing. I may have to reformat for submission--can't remember if it exports as a Word doc.

RC

[expatbrat]

Kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss... hugggggggs.

This document map is exactly what I have been looking for! Wow - thanks a bunch.

Siddow - first you get me laughting at your "if the green lights on I'm procrastinating" location (love it!) and then you go give advice on the problem I have had for ages.

Thanks so much!

Perhaps someone can do a thread on the cool stuff you can do on your computer than perhaps others don't know?

[Serena Casey]

This was new to me and I see it will be extremely helpful! I couldn't find Document Map at first, but after snooping around, I found it. For those who have Word 2004, it's under View, Navigation Pane.

Thanks, Shadow_Ferret, for the awesome tip!

[Medievalist]

Those options in the pop-down menu that usually says "Normal" but which include things like Heading 1 etc. are Styles. You can choose one and then start typing, and whatever you type after choosing one of the Styles will take on the font etc. associated with that Style. You can also Select text then choose a Style to apply to the Selected text.

You can modify the styles if you would like, or create your own as well; see Format--->Styles

It can be a little complicated though.

[Lady Cat]

Jeez, am I the only one in the world left using Corel? I love my WordPerfect and have been resisting the dark side of MS Word. I understand WP, I know how to make it do what I want it to . . .

Maybe someday I'll break down and get the current copy of MS Word (I do have a copy of Microsoft Office 98 that just takes up space on my hard drive) but it won't be until I can afford a new lap top.

[Medievalist]

Honestly, unless you have a compelling reason, like a boss or editor who requires it, stick with Word Perfect.

[Alan Yee]

Honestly, unless you have a compelling reason, like a boss or editor who requires it, stick with Word Perfect.

My computer only has MS Word. Of course, my manuscript is only novella length at the moment (~18,000 words), not novel-length (at least not yet; I plan on expanding it later), so right now it isn't such a big deal.

If I get close to novel-length, I'll see if I can get WordPerfect. It sounds much easier to use for manuscripts than MS Word (which has its problems).

[emsuniverse]

I absolutely LOVE the document map thing.

Makes revisions so much easier.

Thank you for pointing it out - I never even knew it existed!

[Jamesaritchie]

Jeez, am I the only one in the world left using Corel? I love my WordPerfect and have been resisting the dark side of MS Word. I understand WP, I know how to make it do what I want it to . . .

Maybe someday I'll break down and get the current copy of MS Word (I do have a copy of Microsoft Office 98 that just takes up space on my hard drive) but it won't be until I can afford a new lap top.

I have WordPerfect, as well. I always keep the latest version of both Word and WordPerfect on my computer. Right now I have Word 2003, Word 2007 beta 2, and WordPerfect X3 all on my computer.

The main reason I've used Word most of the time is simply because 90% of the world uses Word. If you're printing out and sending a paper manuscript, it doesn't matter which word processor you use, but sometimes there are format problems opening files in Word that were created in WordPerfect.

WordPerfect certainly has a better grammar check program, but when swapping files with agents and editors who have Word, I've found it best to use Word. But unless swapping electronic files, or doing things beyond writing fiction, is a routine part of your life, pretty much any word processor will do.

Not only Does Robert J. Sawyer still use WordStar, but according to his website, so do Roger MacBride Allen, Jeffrey A. Carver, Arthur C. Clarke David Gerrold, Terence M. Green, James Gunn, Matthew Hughes, Donald Kingsbury, Eric Kotani, Paul Levinson, George R. R. Martin, Vonda McIntyre, Jennifer Roberson, and Edo van Belkom.

I liked Word 2003 a good deal, but still used WordPerfect on occasion.

But I have to admit that Word 2007 may have won me over. It has a radically new gui, makes everything extremely easy to do, even for a first time user, does things even Word 2003 or WordPerfect X3 can't do, and hasn't once tried to get in my way, or tell me how to do something. This time I think Microsoft got it right. Primarily because this time they finally listened to what real users want and have been asking for since Word first came out. I suspect I won't be using WordPerfect nearly as much from now on. Maybe not at all.

But for plain old fiction writing, I don't think it much matters which word processor you use, as long as it can file to a format editors can open without problems.

[Inkdaub]

I use Word for prose and this document map sounds pretty good.

[Flapdoodle]

You just have to slow down and draw the letters. There are still a decent bunch of pro writers who do first drafts in longhand.

To my mind, the 90wpm, or even 40wpm, the writing keeping up with thoughts, is one of the biggest disadvantages of a keyboard. First thoughts are seldom the best thoughts. Other disadvantages are the easy of cut and paste and editing in first draft. These are great things for final draft work, but I think they all hurt first drafts.

Slowing down, writing neatly, ten or twelve words per minute, lets my mind stay way out in front of my hand, which is where it belongs.

I've been using word processing since I was 12, and I had Easy script on my C64. My handwriting is terrible, and I can't handwrite and keep up with the ideas. I handed in some essays at school that were word processed and had an argument with the teacher about it. At my school, in the crap British Education System, they penalised hugely for poor handwriting, yet didn't care about grammar. I was the first person who'd ever handed in work word processed and they didn't know what to do with it. Um, "Read it", perhaps? I refused to type them out by hand, and got high marks for them anyway when they were examined externally.

One a plane to Lanzarote I recently wrote two shorts (One out, one in) in longhand, and found it frustrating that it took so long and my hand started hurting. Typing it up was a pain. Trying to read my own handwriting is a pain, and it took more effort to do the typing up than it did to write the long written draft.

The only difference for me between handwriting and word processing is that the process of paper->RAM was a "2nd draft", so a lot of bad bits were cut out when I did the re-type.

I would never stop word processing - blank document, "Once up a time", and then rest follows without ever going back for editing. Occasionally, may use word's "note" feature to add notes.

[Jamesaritchie]

I've been using word processing since I was 12, and I had Easy script on my C64. My handwriting is terrible, and I can't handwrite and keep up with the ideas. I handed in some essays at school that were word processed and had an argument with the teacher about it. At my school, in the crap British Education System, they penalised hugely for poor handwriting, yet didn't care about grammar. I was the first person who'd ever handed in work word processed and they didn't know what to do with it. Um, "Read it", perhaps? I refused to type them out by hand, and got high marks for them anyway when they were examined externally.

One a plane to Lanzarote I recently wrote two shorts (One out, one in) in longhand, and found it frustrating that it took so long and my hand started hurting. Typing it up was a pain. Trying to read my own handwriting is a pain, and it took more effort to do the typing up than it did to write the long written draft.

The only difference for me between handwriting and word processing is that the process of paper->RAM was a "2nd draft", so a lot of bad bits were cut out when I did the re-type.

I would never stop word processing - blank document, "Once up a time", and then rest follows without ever going back for editing. Occasionally, may use word's "note" feature to add notes.

Yes, a lot of people feel this way. And I blame schools for a great deal of it. Sloppy handwriting is the fault of schools, any kid can learn to write legibly, and, of course, writing in longhand makes your hand hurt because you rarely use those muscles.

But for me, one of the most important advantages of writing in longhand is precisely because it makes it impossible to keep up with the ideas in my head. I don't like anything at all about keeping up with the ideas in my head. I think the fact that computers allow a writer to keep up with the ideas in his head is one big reason so many bad ideas and so much bad writing gets put down on paper.

Even with a computer, I think writing slower, staying way the heck behind the ideas in your head, means better writing, and in the long run, a faster finished product.

[Flapdoodle]

Yes, a lot of people feel this way. And I blame schools for a great deal of it. Sloppy handwriting is the fault of schools, any kid can learn to write legibly, and, of course, writing in longhand makes your hand hurt because you rarely use those muscles.

But for me, one of the most important advantages of writing in longhand is precisely because it makes it impossible to keep up with the ideas in my head. I don't like anything at all about keeping up with the ideas in my head. I think the fact that computers allow a writer to keep up with the ideas in his head is one big reason so many bad ideas and so much bad writing gets put down on paper.

Even with a computer, I think writing slower, staying way the heck behind the ideas in your head, means better writing, and in the long run, a faster finished product.

I don't give a monkey's chuff about neat handwriting. It's a waste of time. It's as pointless as reciting times tables over and over again. The majority of people in the UK of my generation are barely literate these days thanks to lousy education and an obsession with spelling tests and neat handwriting (I used to get full marks for essays and comprehension, then see it reduced with a comment like "handwriting not neat enough."). You ask someone what "grammar" is and they'll say "My Dad's Mum."