Grammatically correct way to use the word sensei

Blinkk

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I'm writing a short story and the Japanese word sensei is coming up more often than I planned. I'm realizing I don't know the proper grammatical way to use this word. When it's in narration, I tend to say Sensei Kanekoto, but when it's in dialogue I have the characters say, "Kanekoto Sensei".

Does sensei come before or after a name?

Also, does anyone know if it should be treated like a title and capitalized when appropriate? There are different opinions about this one online, but I'm thinking yes, it should be a title.
 

morngnstar

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The way it's used in Japanese, it's always after. Might as well do it that way. Japanese doesn't have capitalization, but I'd say capitalize it by analogy with Professor in titles.
 

slhuang

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In Japanese it comes after the name, for sure. You can also use it as a standalone title.

I don't know what the style guides say, but my inclination would be to capitalize it when used as a title or form of address, since we capitalize titles like "Mister" and "Doctor."

Basically, +1 to everything morngnstar said.
 

Jamesaritchie

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When I hear the word used in martial arts circles, it's most often as a standalone word. It's almost always used this way. When a name must be used, the name comes first.
 

Chris P

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An ex-girlfriend on mine (both she and her senseis are English) used it before the name: Sensei Simon, Sensei Andy. So even if the title is after in Japanese it can be before in English. At least it's used that way even if it's improper.

And I agree with the others about capitalization: Sensei Simon but Simon was her sensei. I think it's an accepted English word so it doesn't need to be italicized as are foreign words.
 
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tiakall

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For what it's worth, the usage I typically see is hyphenated (i.e., Kanekoto-sensei). That said, if the characters in question are not familiar with Japanese language, like if they're all Westerners at a dojo, "Sensei Kanekoto" would seem the more normal use to me (as that's how things were at my Korean dojang.)
 

Blinkk

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Thanks for the tips. It makes more sense in this context to put sensei after the name since the majority of the characters are Asian. It's interesting how both ways are acceptable, but it depends on who is doing the speaking. Had there been more westerners in the story I'd probably put it before the name.

I'm probably being way too nitpicky, but I am curious about one more thing. Like I said in the original post, when characters are speaking they say Kanekoto Sensei. When I use it in narration I tend to say Sensei Kanekoto. Which one should the narrator favor? It's 3rd person limited and we're following a Japanese swordman. Still, the narrator doesn't have a nationality. Should the narrator favor the western way because the audience will be western, or should the narrator stay with the thoughts of the MC? What do you think?
 

Chris P

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Thanks for the tips. It makes more sense in this context to put sensei after the name since the majority of the characters are Asian. It's interesting how both ways are acceptable, but it depends on who is doing the speaking. Had there been more westerners in the story I'd probably put it before the name.

I'm probably being way too nitpicky, but I am curious about one more thing. Like I said in the original post, when characters are speaking they say Kanekoto Sensei. When I use it in narration I tend to say Sensei Kanekoto. Which one should the narrator favor? It's 3rd person limited and we're following a Japanese swordman. Still, the narrator doesn't have a nationality. Should the narrator favor the western way because the audience will be western, or should the narrator stay with the thoughts of the MC? What do you think?

My gut says to go with the Asian way, with Sensei after the name, especially since the MC and most of the other characters are Asian. In 3rd limited it makes more sense (to me, and not to open a can of worms) that the narrator would follow the MC's way of doing it.
 

tiakall

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Unless you're setting the narration up as an outsider's point of view, I would stick with Kanekoto-sensei. In the context of a samurai story, 'Sensei Kanekoto' would strike me as odd. (Though I am a bit of a Japanese nerd, so my experience may not reflect your targeted audience.)
 

slhuang

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I'd say definitely do it the Japanese way in that situation.
 

shizu

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I can't say I've ever seen it used before a name, but I've never seen it used by anyone who isn't at least a little familiar with the Japanese language and/or addressing a Japanese person. As far as I'm aware, the term "sensei" when attached to a name is always a suffix, never a prefix. It'd be like calling someone Smith Mr. in English.

It can be used as a standalone term (e.g. the same way we'd say "Professor, I don't understand this!" or "Doctor, I need help!" in which case it should likely be capitalized) but if you're using it with a name and especially if the the narrator and/or addressee is Japanese, then stick with adding it as a -sensei suffix.
 

Roxxsmom

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Should the narrator favor the western way because the audience will be western, or should the narrator stay with the thoughts of the MC? What do you think?

You said you're in limited third, so I think it should follow the way the pov character would say and think it.
 
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Samsonet

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Isn't sensei an honorific? Kanekoto-san, Kanekoto-sensei?

In my ikebana class, the teachers referred to themselves and each other as "[name]-sensei." Though I guess you can't really tell if a name is hyphenated when spoken aloud...
 

themindstream

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When I took Aikido for a couple years, we used <name>-sensei (as a honorific) when talking about a specific instructor in the third person and Sensei when addressing the instructor directly or when there was only one person we could logically be talking about. It was one of very few Japanese conventions we used regularly (we didn't call other students sempai or count out excercises in Japanese for example). So even in a western setting, the Japanese-way is most likely correct here. (Note that both instructors did train under a Japanese teacher.)
 
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RKarina

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Coming in late to this, but what we have picked up as we study Japanese language and art both in use/observation and from translators and teachers is when used with a name, sensei follows the name. So it is always [Name] sensei (always lowercase, capitalization of the title seems to be a Western thing). Usually with a last name, although sometimes with the given name. The Sensei [Name] form is something we've only seen in Western culture, usually in martial arts.
Sensei may also be used as a stand alone address, similar to doctor or professor. In this case, I would follow normal capitalization rules simply for clarity and continuity in the manuscript (although in Japan, there would be no capitalization of the term).

As for whether or not to use the Western approach of Sensei [Name]: what would your character use?
If your character uses sensei because they have studied martial arts in a Western setting, it's likely they would use Sensei [Name].
If, however, they lived and studied in Japan, they would likely have adopted the [Name] sensei style because that's what they heard/used there.

Whether or not your readers will know the difference is a completely different subject. Some will, some won't.

ETA:
For what it's worth, we use [Name] sensei both in written and spoken form when talking to or about our teacher. We rarely say "Sensei said..." It's usually "Naka sensei said..."
 
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Blinkk

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Thank you RKarina and TheMindStream. That's very helpful info. A lot of this is about context and what makes the most sense for the character to say. It makes more sense to use the Japanese format for this story, so I'm heading that direction.

Thanks guys! Everyone has been very helpful.
 

Jamesaritchie

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Funny, I had some long and intensive training in martial arts, but we had no sensei, at least in an official sense. Our instructor was in Special Forces, and we just called him by his name.

Anyway, how the word is used in fiction would depend on the character using it. Name first is correct, but many characters might not know this, and would have to be corrected.
 

Tottie Scone

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I would agree with using Blinkk-sensei in narration if that's the way it's being used in dialogue.

This is not based on any particular knowledge of martial arts or Japanese grammar (though I can ask for a cup of tea and a complete sashimi meal, which I am disproportionately proud of), but because switching between one way round and the other way round seems like it will distract the reader and mess with the flow.

You don't want readers puzzling over the very question we're puzzling over in this thread, you want them to focus on the story, and keeping it consistent seems the best way to achieve that.