AAAAAh, Mystery!

[killerkellerh]

Hello.

Anyone else out there actually working on a mystery right now?

I am currently 15k words into my first attempt. It is going very well so far, I just need more time to work! It is always hard to balance a full time 40 hour plus job, a wife, and baby with amature writing.

Anyone else making any progress? Completed works? Published?

later,

keller
reno

[rtilryarms]

I am, I blocked at around 14K words. Need to regroup. Might have to split the book in two works.

rt

[killerkellerh]

RT,

What did you do to get yourself in a bind? Were you working off an outline or not? How do you plan to proceed?

I have not been working on an outline, but I have a pretty good idea of the events in my head.

later,

Keller
Reno

[rtilryarms]

Yes, I wrote an outline. I developed a plot (of course it is the worlds greatest plot) and the twists and turns of a mystery then began to fill in the characters.

Everything was fine until I developed the protag. I wanted to stray from the normal hero, ya know, ex viet vet, CIA, assassin etc. I was looking for a new or at least under-exploited skill set and developmental history.
And I am actually proud to say I stumbled onto something good.

The dilemma:

1) I have a very good plot, unique in many ways. Of course everything has been done before but this is under overdone.
2) I have an excellent character and protag developed, unique in many ways. Of course everything has been done before but this is under overdone.

Problem:

They clash. This protag aint for this plot! DANG!

I don’t have time to write two stinking novels. I just want to write one.

Woe is me………

[killerkellerh]

I hear ya! I have 3 main characters needing stories...I'm not sure if that is the best way to go or not, but it is what i have. Two of the characters are pretty cool, but the stories require tons of research and are in the "overdone" category. However, I had a revelation one day, and have developed a character and plot that are working really well, and as far as I know...it is fresh and new. The story is ofcoarse a murder mystery and probably not the freshest plot ever, but the fresh character makes the plot more interesting...or so I think. :)

At this point I have 4 other plot ideas for this same character. a series has already formed in my humble head.

later,

keller

[Jamesaritchie]

Mystery is perhaps my favorite genre. I've had several mystery short stories published, I just finished the first draft of a mystery novel, and I have to write a second mystery novel.

[SpeedRacist]

I am workin on my first mystery novel, and also this little somethin that might end up my third.

It is fun, but WOW, this stuff is hard, hard, hard!:bang

[rtilryarms]

WOW, this stuff is hard, hard, hard!
Hmm, you have a clever knack of the understatement.

[SpeedRacist]

:lol , yessir, I've been known for that, indeed.

[Writing Again]

I've written mysteries in the past. A friendly publisher, Unfortunately now that I'm back to writing I can't find him, told me what I needed to do was to come up with a series, not just one shotters.

So now I have the concepts for three different series, but I'm in the middle of a fantasy novel and don't even have the time to write that.

[SpeedRacist]

That is exactly what I've done. I developed a series character, her sidekick, and now I'm in book 1. I have the ideas (kinda) for book 2 and 3, and maybe 4, so if asked I will sound like I knows what I'm talkin about!


(which can be rare, I'm just sayin...)

[Kempo Kid]

Writing Again, I could have written your post. Currently I'm outlining a mystery series while I write a sequel to the fantasy book I'm shopping around to agents.

It's exciting, and kind of fun, really. My subconscious mind comes up with things that are just mentioned in the first book, but are extremely relevant in the fourth or fifth books.

What's holding me back, though, is background research. Since mystery writing is new to me, I'm having to do a lot of reading, not just about mystery writing but police procedural, criminal profiling, forensic science.

[Writing Again]

Kempo Kid, you are over complicating things. The chances are you do not need to know any of that.

First: the only people who fully understand police procedures are cops. If your detective is not a cop, then the only things you need to get right are the effects of those procedures, not the procedures themselves. Unless you are a cop, trained as a cop, or at least thick as thieves with a lot of cops, I would not suggest writing a novel from a policeman's pov.

Second: you can easily keep your character's dealings with the police to a bare minimum. If your lead char is not a suspect, then don't have them chasing the police down with questions. If they are a suspect, then have them actively avoiding the police.

Third: you can place the events in a small town where everybody knows everybody and the police don't tend to be as formal as they are in big cities.

Fourth: In those situations where your lead must interact with the police, take your first draft and go find a policeman or two. Then ask them if they would help you make your story as accurate as possible. Many police personnel at all levels enjoy a good mystery but hate it when the police are misrepresented as doing things no cop on earth would do. So many will be glad to proof read those scenes for you. Be sure to acknowledge their help in the acknowledgement page.

Fifth: If you do decide to make your lear a professional P.I. remember, they are hemmed in by so many rules and regulations that it is almost impossible for them to get involved in a murder investigation and still keep their license. At least in California where I'm living. And every state has different rules governing them. My advice is don't.

Sixth: One, to my mind, excellent reason for making your lead character (detective) and ordinary person who gets involved because of their job, friendships, or just happening to be there, is it gives the reader the feeling, "This could happen to me." This helps to get your reader more directly involved.

[Maryn]

I can't say I agree with WritingAgain that you don't need to do so much background work to write a mystery. Some of the steps s/he is suggesting--avoiding a police POV; minimizing characters' contact with police; setting it in Smalltown USA, where everyone knows everyone and the cops are your friends and neighbors; making your lead character an Everyman type--will most certainly produce a cozy.

Not that there's anything wrong with cozies, but for people who'd rather write the next "Silence of the Lambs" or "Shutter Island," the homework is a must. Civilian writers can and do research how police departments operate, and cultivate friends in law enforcement, ME's offices, the courts, and so on specifically to make sure they get it right.

Of course the writer who has cops check the ms. for realism, and who has P.I.s work only within the restraints of the law where the novel is set, is doing homework, too.

(I swear, I could write an autobiography and there'd still be research to do!)

Maryn, not spoiling for a fight, just of a different opinion

[noh1]

Your local police station usually has a PR-type person who can help you, and is most willing to answer some questions. I called the homicide division once, to get verification on something. The detective was really nice.

[Writing Again]

I can't say I agree with WritingAgain that you don't need to do so much background work to write a mystery. Some of the steps s/he is suggesting--avoiding a police POV; minimizing characters' contact with police; setting it in Smalltown USA, where everyone knows everyone and the cops are your friends and neighbors; making your lead character an Everyman type--will most certainly produce a cozy.

Me write a cozy?

I'm going to print that one up and tack it to the wall so my betas can have a chuckle.

He. Name is Jason to those when they like me, and Jackass to those when they don't.

Actually I follow the Dean Koontz philosophy of writing. First I drop my protag out of an airplane into the middle of the ocean without a chute. Then I add sharks. The ship that passes by doesn't rescue him but has an oil spill instead. When he manages to climb up on a board, picks the oil out of his nose, and can breathe again, lightening sets fire to the oil.

One of the reasons my protags don't have a lot to do with the cops is that they are usually wanted for the murder fairly early on in the story and don't get free of the charges till the end. Running from the police tends to discourage contact. And ignorance of what is going on adds to the suspense.

However I do agree with you that everything you know is a help. On the other hand had I waited to learn about police work before I wrote my first novel I'd probably never written one. On the other hand I've learned a lot over the years and have never used it. Mostly because my protag is the victim of circumstance and knows as little, or less, than the reader.

I do like to read cozies, they are just not that much fun to write.

My intent was not to encourage any writer to put all of those suggestions together in one novel, as you are right, they would result in a cozy. My intemnt was to list ways of getting around the need to know police procedure.

By the way, and an important point for most of us as few of us are independently wealthy is this. It is time consuming and expensive to learn everything you need to know. If it all comes out of your pocket directly you could spend a fortune.

But.

If you have already sold a mystery novel, then you become a professional in your field and such things as continuing education and research can help reduce your tax obligations. You need to get a professional to cover the correct bases.

Oh, and as for respectfully disagreeing...Anyone with a thin skin does not belong in the writing profession. If you can't take being called an idiot, or having someone ask at a book signing, "How on earth did you get that *&$$% published" you need to look for something less humiliating to do for a hobby.

[rtilryarms]

I believe you should write about subjects based on what is readily accessible through the general media. Cops, for instance, get pretty much a bad rap but all that the regular consumer knows about them is what they read in the newspapers. The rags try to spice it up with controversy and dark tales.

Accuracy in police business is important only if the majority of your audience is expected to be cops.

Just make it believable. Actually, people will believe anything as long as there is at least one anti-hero and a beautiful sex starved babe.

If you wrote about what really goes on in the police business, it would be an extraordinarily boring piece of bureaucratic toe mung.

Jmo

rt

[Clearrr]

If you write a mystery, accuracy is important, beyond what's available in general media. If not for the sake of your readers, absolutely for your sake when hoping to get an agent or editor to publish it.

It's interesting to note what some authors are doing re: television shows like CSI. Patricia Cornwell seems to be shunning them, or subtly putting them down, in her latest book, Trace.

IMO, plausibility is crucial in mysteries and if a writer trips up on accuracy, the reader quickly slips into "disbelief" mode.

Clearrr

[rtilryarms]

I don't know. I have some in depth knowledge of how the legal and police business is conducted and when I read a novel from even the best selling authors I find it quite a bit inaccurate. The truth is that there is drudgery and boredome in the real world. I do not find a great deal of fact in novels. No one would get by with the antics of the rebel protags much less stay out of civil court. In fact, official procedure is mostly ignored in maintream fiction from my observation.

RT

[Writing Again]

Let us say, just for the sake of argument, or few minutes agreement if you like, that you do what I do: That is keep the police and police procedure out of the novel as much as possible.

What about accuracy?

First let me state what I do know. My semi qualifications, if you will.

I'm a qualified legal assisstant. Never worked in it, never will. I did it so I could better understand the workings of our society. And this knowledge has helped in almost everything I have written since, including the fantasy novel I'm currently working on.

I attended, and monitored some classes at a local college that trains policemen. Just so I would have some background. It is interesting that if you even take one course in a college or junior college you can monitor as many others as you like and have the time for without additional charge. You learn a lot, but you can't participate and you don't get degreed. You just have to sort of sponge your way thru.

But that does not make my writing accurate. What does make it accurate is taking those parts of my manuscript where policemen appear, whether a mystery story or not, and letting experienced policemen read it.

The reason for the accuracy is not for the average reader.

The average reader blithly accepts that a cop, especially a disillusioned one, would filch evidence from a crime scene, walk straight from a crime scene to the suspects house and question them, or crawl in thru a partially opened window without a warrent and no sign of violence within.

Fact is no cop would do any of these. If you don't know why you need to do some more research.

The reason for the accuracy is for the few police, lawyers, DAs and such who will know. And even then they will have to forgive such little nuances as the fact that in your novel you must have the same detective working on your murder case alone in order to keep the average reader's interest up and the word count down. When in truth your detective in real life might be spending two or three hours a day on that murder case and the other five to eight hours doing other things. Perhaps even other murders.

Sort of like if you have a private detective. Chances are they only have one case at a time, at most two, and those cases are both interesting.

Each writer has to draw the lines between real, realistic, and fiction according to their own personality. But draw it they must. And if they are going to sell they must draw it at places the readers will accept.

My choice is to keep police involvement as low as possible, keep all involvement as accurate as possible, and provide myself and the reader as much enjoyment as possible.

[Clearrr]

Let me explain what I mean about accuracy. "Bartie Badguy spins the barrel of his glock."

"...would filch evidence from a crime scene, walk straight from a crime scene to the suspects house and question them, or crawl in thru a partially opened window without a warrent and no sign of violence within..." This does happen. Shouldn't, but it does.

So, what I mean by accuracy is plausibility. One can't spin the barrel of a Glock and police do violate SOP.

[rtilryarms]

So, what I mean by accuracy is plausibility

I think you cleared it up. We are talking about the same thing and agree.

Plausibility is the key.

[Writing Again]

So, what I mean by accuracy is plausibility

I second that. I'd say it sums up my pov exactly.

I have to say I know nothing about a glock, aside from the fact it is a gun and I believe it is not made of metal. Nor am I going to run out and learn about one as I may never need the info.

But if I ever do use a glock in a story I will learn what I need to know about one before I commit anything to writing.

[katdad]

I'm writing a series of hardboiled private detective novels.

I've completed the first two novels and I'm 30,000 words into the 3rd novel.

Novel #2 is presently at an agency. Also I'm revsising novel #1 to expand it in length and scope, as it's too short in its present condition.

[mysteryhost]

Kat,

Are you writing Gumshoe, or more urban and contemporary?

[katdad]

"Are you writing Gumshoe, or more urban and contemporary?"

My stories are set in modern Houston and the surrounding regions. They are meant to be quite realistic within the framework of a private detective novel.

My private detective is not retro. He's highly educated, very sophisticated and intelligent (or at least considers himself so) and at ease in modern life (computers, handhelds, etc.).

He is however arrogant and somewhat vacant in the soul department, which is the progress and journey he will embark upon, or more correctly, the journey I will take him through, willy-nilly.

[Risseybug]

Hey there all. I'm filching your thread for a moment.
I am participating in NaNoWriMo, which starts tomorrow. For this little endevour I've chosen to write a mystery novel.
I did this b/c it's completely out of my genre - I usually write YA fantasy.

Any advice? Ok, so I've got the POV from a cop, but I do know a little something about cops, I know several. I have a body, several suspects, and a bit of a twist to make it interesting. Oh, but it's set in 1935, so that's a bit different - more of a film noir type book is what I'm going for, I guess.

Just wondering if there's anything I'm missing. Thanks.

BTW, what the heck is a cozy? I've heard the term before, but I have no idea what it means!

[HConn]

Cosies: scroll down the page. (http://www.mysterynet.com/genres/)

One thing that the page doesn't mention is that the crime is always solved by rational, logical thought.

[rtilryarms]

Thanks Hconn. That is a great resource for a lot of things

mike

[Risseybug]

Thank you, that was most helpful! My current WIP is the first of a series of books that will be set in an English country house, but not mystery, more like fantasy.

Someone said that I had the right lifestyle to write a series of cozies, and I just wondered what it was. Makes sense now.