To tell or not to tell: that be the needling question, me hearties

I always think this:

memoir = novel

novel = memoir

There is truth in every novel and lies in every memoir.

I would go with memoir a la Dave Eggers style. Declare it to be what it is...a remembrance with lies.


I'm not interested in Frey commentary. I was aghast that people would even consider him a writer. I stopped reading. His writing is absolutely atrocious. The man couldn't write a sentence if his life depended on it. I actually threw the book across the room. Terrible writing. And I do believe that this is not a personal opinion. It's just a matter of fact.

novel

The last thng I want to read is a memoir with lies in it. Inaccuracies are one thing, no one has a perfect memory, but when something is a lie, the writer is a liar, and it's me he's lying to. No thanks.

My personal opinion is that novels have more power than most memoirs, and they're certainly a heck of a lot easier to sell. Ordinary memoirs from John Doe citizens are about as easy to sell as ice in Alaska because who wants to read them? You have to have a very special story, and tell it very well, to make a publisher take on a memoir.

But I don't think a publisher will question you too closely. If you lie, then sooner or later you almost certainly will be caught. The type of lie, and teh grandeur of it, will determine how the public, and the publisher, will react.

KTC said:

I always think this:

memoir = novel

novel = memoir

There is truth in every novel and lies in every memoir.

I would go with memoir a la Dave Eggers style. Declare it to be what it is...a remembrance with lies.


I'm not interested in Frey commentary. I was aghast that people would even consider him a writer. I stopped reading. His writing is absolutely atrocious. The man couldn't write a sentence if his life depended on it. I actually threw the book across the room. Terrible writing. And I do believe that this is not a personal opinion. It's just a matter of fact.

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I don't know that I'd call Frey's writing atrocious. It was far from great, but I didn't find it horrible. And I didn't try reading it in an effort to find great writing.

But I don't buy for a second that there are lies in every memoir. Inaccuracies, maybe, but not lies.

Write a couple of chapters of the darned thing and then figure out which direction you are headed. I suspect it will be pretty obvious which way you should go once your put pen to paper, or more likely, fingers to keyboard.

If your are uncomfortable with certain aspects of your personal life being public knowledge, then I think you should market it as a novel. Even if the publishing company doesn't looking into your past, somebody will. After all, James Frey and the writer formerly known as JT Leroy were unmasked by journalists, not their publishers.

Jackie

Write it as a memoir and change the names and identifying characteristics of the 10%.

My two pence. And I'm not published or an expert, just imparting advice gained from an identical experience.

Write the memoir as you see it, or it will always be there in the back of your mind to do it, and it will hold you back.
Then forget about it, move on to the next thing.
Think of it as a 'trunk' novel maybe.

Then take the 'best' bits and start a novel, using these parts for scenes, characters, etc.

I couldn't clear the decks and begin writing until i'd wrote the book I 'intended', 'hoped, or 'planned' writing for years. I did that, a Grail book, to the tune of 200k words. Then I had to write the memoir which was just about a certain period. I did that for about 250 k words, and at the end of that was left with one single sentence that pretty much answered a big conundrum of my life. It is also the sentence with which I start the third novel, the WIP, the one into which the couple of years and half a million words of experience are shaping. As will this the next, and the one after that.
And I'm rambling. Just write. If you go off on a fictional tangent, roll with it.
Either way, good luck mate. You'll need it!

Just write a fiction already. If you're real life is so interesting, then use it as inspiration. Judging by your photo, you haven't been alive NEARLY long enough to warrant writing a memoire. Unless you were some child of war who was sold as a slave on the black market, nobody is going to care about your pimply exploits unless you embellish the story to high hell...

Which naturally means....

Go fiction! Write a novel!

I agree with James Ritchie, in that I am not interested in memoirs of anybody unless they are famous for having made some indelible mark on society.

Back to the original topic: LJ, only you can decide whether you want this to be a memoir or a novel. If you really do want to "protect" the real people, you have no choice but to A) change all the names and identities or B) make it a novel (but your readers are still going to ask: Who is that? Is she really the author's mother? etc.)

But you bet that publishers would be more skeptical about memoirs. And you already know my opinion on making things up/altering facts: as soon as you knowingly or deliberately change the events, you can't ethically call it a memoir. Of course, it doesn't stop anyone, but that remains my opinion.

JA Konrath said:

Agreed. So why are you discounting what other people consider treasure?

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If you publish a book, you must accept that anyone, at any time, can pick it up and read it and say it stinks. I've been trying to get through Flowers In The Attic by VC Andrews, and I'm afraid I just can't do it. Yes, it's published, yes, it's a best seller, and yes many people consider it treasure, but does that mean I have to like it? No, I haven't published a novel yet, but I am still allowed to have taste and standards!

Jack, I don't think JT Leroy will have ruined anything for you in the end. I do think James Frey will effect the way we come to look at memoir, at least for a while. We know that memory is not 100% reliable. When something in a memoir is not literally true, how do we know if the writer's memory failed, or if the writer embellished in purpose? That's the kind of thing I hear people talk about when the subject of James Frey comes up.

With JT Leroy, it's another issue entirely. His stories were published as autobiographical fiction, and then we found out that JT Leroy didn't exist. This does not mean, of course, that they were not autobiographical, because we don't actually know very much about Laura Albert's past, unlike the fictional Leroy, who talked about his whole life interviews.

The issue with JT Leroy is that he does not exist. That is why people are upset. If you write autobiographical fiction, will someone wonder whether or not you exist? Unlike Leroy, you can prove that you do. And if that doesn't work, I'll tell everyone that I'm having your baby!

Jack, the following Publisher's Weekly Article is interesting in this context:

http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA250441.html?pubdate=10%2F7%2F2002&display=archive

One fascinating footnote: there was some discussion with the interested editors about whether to market the book as novel or memoir. The editors were divided, but the marketing people all plumped for fiction. Of course, they won.

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Personal off-topic footnote: The HarperCollins editor mentioned in the article is actually my editor and I'm terribly jealous - the book has a similar title to my first book but I didn't get that much attention! The book got some pretty bad reviews but when I read it, vowing to hate it, I actually found it quite good, in a shallow sort of way. However, it was a flop; I'm pretty sure it never earned out.

LJ, I'm not quite sure what you want from this thread. I just happened to notice it and read it through in one sitting. Your questions have been answered. Maybe not in the way you were hoping, or perhaps you're not seeing how they apply, but the answers are there. While you might believe the posts have gone off-topic, they haven't--not really. But cool, I'll go way back to page 1 and answer your questions.

But with James Frey and Augusten Burrough and Dave Eggers (all suspect), I'm worried that a publisher or editor won't consider taking on a memoir unless the writer promises full disclosure of all people included. So I think to myself: "Self, is this a liability? Would I be better off writing this as autobiographical fiction?"

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Frey was an anomaly anyway. The publishers most ALWAYS want to vet the work, just like any other non-fiction. It was foolish of the publisher not to. I was actually quite surprised to see it happen the few times it has. The answer to your question is, "Yes, this IS a liability." There is ALWAYS a potential of liability in a memoir. Libel lawsuits are filed every day of every week unless the author has the full permission, in writing, of the involved parties to quote them or discuss acts. Go back to my answer in non-fiction about the legal liability of an author when including real people in a memoir. This was quite thoroughly answered by many people (including our resident publishing attorney, Jaws).

"Joshua," Self answers back. "You'd lose a lot of the power of your stories if you told it as fiction. It's better off as non-fiction.

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This isn't necessarily true. I think there are many classic novels that endured because the power of the story overcomes the fact that it's fiction. Strong stories--Romeo & Juliet, Of Mice and Men, Catch-22 or Farenheit 451--can be even MORE powerful through the use of prose that real life can't match.

"Yes," I argue back. "On the one hand, Self, you're probably right, because I'm always worried about plagiarism, and if I'm writing non-fiction, I don't have to worry about someone publishing my stories, because these stories are my life and nobody can take that away from me. But, on the other hand, fiction grants you relative immunity to the wrath of your relatives, immediate and otherwise."

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True. But I don't think you should be worried so much about plagiarism (someone stealing your work) as libel lawsuits. The wrath of people misquoted or, even worse, ACCURATELY quoted, can be horrible indeed.

And on and on we go, all about town, Self and I. Vicious circle, vicious circle.

Which is where you fine folk step in. The circle-breakers. What do you think? Weigh in? How would/do you cope with these crushing dilemmas

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There's no dilemma here. I think what's happening is that you really WANT to write it as a memoir, but that little doubt in the back of your mind can't be ignored. You want to lambast (or applaud) those who have contributed toward your memorable life, and have sunlight shown into the dark corners. But the fallout might make your life even MORE memorable (and not in a good way), so you're hedging.

Here's my best advice of what to do. No, it's not meant to be facetious or condescending. Take out a coin and flip it. Really. Pick Memoir for one side and Fiction for the other. Then toss it in the air and let it hit the floor. DON'T catch it. Letting it hit the floor is very important for the randomness. You must promise yourself to let the coin decide. No second chances. Now, as soon as you see the face fo the coin -- what is your first thought? It will be one of three:

1) Okay, whatever. That one will work.

2) Oh, good. I won.

3) Hmm. Best two out of three?

If 1), you really were undecided. It doesn't matter to you, so either way will make you happy in the long run.

If 2), you already had your mind made up. So ignore any doubts in the other direction and forge ahead. Just understand that there will be consequences. You can't ignore the consequences of your decision. That's part of life. You can only deal with them and do your best to minimize them.

If 3), you ALSO already had your mind made up. Ignore the coin and do the other thing.

Good luck with your choice.

Okay. This one is back open as well.

Cathy C said:

Take out a coin and flip it. Really. Pick Memoir for one side and Fiction for the other. Then toss it in the air and let it hit the floor. DON'T catch it. Letting it hit the floor is very important for the randomness. You must promise yourself to let the coin decide. No second chances. Now, as soon as you see the face fo the coin -- what is your first thought? It will be one of three:

1) Okay, whatever. That one will work.

2) Oh, good. I won.

3) Hmm. Best two out of three?

If 1), you really were undecided. It doesn't matter to you, so either way will make you happy in the long run.

If 2), you already had your mind made up. So ignore any doubts in the other direction and forge ahead. Just understand that there will be consequences. You can't ignore the consequences of your decision. That's part of life. You can only deal with them and do your best to minimize them.

If 3), you ALSO already had your mind made up. Ignore the coin and do the other thing.

Good luck with your choice.

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Clever, I love this. You are saying “ask your subconscious mind.” But in an easy “how does that make you feel?” manner. I love it. That is brilliant.

I was going to throw my 2 baht in and say “non fiction” because this is what I prefer to read. But hey – don’t ask me – ask your subconscious mind. 80% of your behaviour is based on what the subconscious believes anyway so you may as well consult it with a coin. Silly not to.