Originality Lynched? (fanfics)

Are you talking like novels based on Star Wars characters that I can pick up at Barnes and Noble or are you talking amateurish internet stuff when you say fan fic?

fanfic

The amateurish fanfic online is nearly all pure garbage in every possible way, and is often illegal. Why anyone would write it is beyond me, and how anyone can stand to read it is something I'll never know.

But some of the published novels I've read based on the work of others have been pretty good. A few have been excellent.

I understand why people want to read and write it. I grew up in a time when fan fiction did take off--like for classic Trek. The series was over, but the series was so good that the fans wanted to continue with more wonderful stories. The result of that was actually some fan fiction that was professionally published for Trek back in the 1980's. Some writers from that era also used fan fiction to improve their writing skills enough that they were able to transition into professional publication.

All that being said, today, it seems to be a place for people who don't want to get along with the rest of the world go. I know of a lady who not only spent tons of time developing a whole "universe" for a 40-year old TV series, but she also spent lots of money travelling to places to do research. There was another lady who wanted to be a professional writer, but she got into writing fan fiction, revelling in the praise for poorly written stories, and fifteen years later, that's all she's doing.

I think there's always going to be an audience for fan fiction. But if someone wants to write professionally, it's not a good idea to do fan fiction. It's not productive, and worse, what the fan fiction people like read are things that aren't particularly viable in a commercial manuscript.

Linda Adams said:

I understand why people want to read and write it. I grew up in a time when fan fiction did take off--like for classic Trek. The series was over, but the series was so good that the fans wanted to continue with more wonderful stories. The result of that was actually some fan fiction that was professionally published for Trek back in the 1980's. Some writers from that era also used fan fiction to improve their writing skills enough that they were able to transition into professional publication.

All that being said, today, it seems to be a place for people who don't want to get along with the rest of the world go. I know of a lady who not only spent tons of time developing a whole "universe" for a 40-year old TV series, but she also spent lots of money travelling to places to do research. There was another lady who wanted to be a professional writer, but she got into writing fan fiction, revelling in the praise for poorly written stories, and fifteen years later, that's all she's doing.

I think there's always going to be an audience for fan fiction. But if someone wants to write professionally, it's not a good idea to do fan fiction. It's not productive, and worse, what the fan fiction people like read are things that aren't particularly viable in a commercial manuscript.

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Some was professionally published, but reams and reams and reams was simply God-awful. I have yet to find a fanfic site where I can read more than a couple of paragraphs without needing something to get the bad taste out of my mouth.

I know the theory of using fanfic to improve your writing, but I doubt I've seen this really happen more than half a dozen times. Fanfic most often kills any chance of writing well, from my experience. I think the general rule should be, "No standards, no improvement," and few, if any, fanfic sites have any standards at all. The writing is simply horrible.

There probably will always be an audience for fanfic, but people who can really enjoy reading what I've seen on fanfic sites are not readers I'd want.

Akuma said:

What I'm trying to get at is whether you approve of this kind of stuff or not.
Historical fiction doesn't count. If you think it does, back it up.

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It seems to me that writing fanfic that puts favorite fictional characters into a new and different setting can be a good creative experience. I've never written fan fic, but I have daydreamed about what fictional characters would be like to meet, or what they would do in a novel situation. Fanfic puts those kinds of thoughts onto paper. Of course, a lot of the writing is crap - just like the majority of writing in any slush pile. The difference between fanfic and, say, new Star Trek novels, to my mind, is that "fanfic" is more about the ideas than the writing.

I'm not sure how "historical fiction" is defined, but there can certainly be "fanfic" with historical figures as characters. That can be a fun exercise as well.

(And I think that stories along the lines of "Frodo in an erotic situation with Samwise" are considered slash fiction, not regular fan fiction, since they often have characters behaving in ways that seem at odds with their behavior in the original books/TV shows/movies.)

Sometimes there's good stuff. I used to read fanfiction when it was about a storyline in a TV Show I really enjoyed that either the writer's messed up (at least in my opinion) or that ended to abruptly or something. As long as it's just fans sharing their fantasies I think it's ok. But yes, about 90% of it is pure rubbish.

I've never read fan (or slash) fiction and don't intend to. But if writing about Cap'n Kirk and Mr. Spock going Brokeback on each other makes people happy, so be it.

Is fanfic great literature? Probably not. But recycling characters from other authors or classical literature isn't always a bad thing.

Even Shakespeare cribbed characters and storylines from other sources. The Comedy of Errors borrows heavily from The Menaechmi written in Latin by Plautus. An Italian named Cinthio came up with the storylines for Othello and Measure for Measure.

Jackie

Sage said:

That's why you only read the ones that are recommended by someone who isn't the author or their friends.

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"omg no I swar its teh best ull evr read i swere betta dan teh reel 1 plz read n review thx"

Fanfiction is just amateur pastiche which is a tradition that goes back a long way. Let's name some 'hacks' who have unimaginatively 'stolen' other people's characters: Lawrence Dibdin (Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes), Fred Saberhagen (Stoker's Dracula), Lyn McConcie (Andre Norton's Witch World), Gene Wolfe (Clark Ashton Smith's Zothique) etc etc

My point is that bad writing is bad writing--pastiche is not the cause or the result of bad writing but a long and arguably noble literary tradition.

veinglory said:

Fanfiction is just amateur pastiche which is a tradition that goes back a long way. Let's name some 'hacks' who have unimaginatively 'stolen' other people's characters: Lawrence Dibdin (Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes), Fred Saberhagen (Stoker's Dracula), Lyn McConcie (Andre Norton's Witch World), Gene Wolfe (Clark Ashton Smith's Zothique) etc etc

My point is that bad writing is bad writing--pastiche is not the cause or the result of bad writing but a long and arguably noble literary tradition.

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I don't think any of those guys were writing fanfic. Fanfic in the way it's done on the internet pretty much does guarantee horrible writing. But I could be wrong. Just show me some good fanfic on the internet.

fanfic

And let's not forget that unless you have the writer's permisison, you have no business using that writer's characters or world for fanfic or anyting else.

How many of Shakespeare's characters do you think were completely original? Not that many. It has only been in the past century or two that the idea of intellectual property has even existed. Personally I think it is hampering our development of new myths and culture-wide symbols. My personal opinion is that in an ideal (socialist) world there would be no such thing as copyright and alll writers would be part of a collective writing community with common characters and settings, not each of us trying to create whole novels and series all by ourselves.

I have written fanfiction (although I don't any more, I decided it was a waste of time and effort to write anything which could never be published) and reading fanfiction is still a regular part of my weekly routine. It think it's tremendously interesting to look at how different writers handle the same character, and how the same cast of characters can be put into completely different plots, and how the same plot can be twisted in tragic or comic or romantic directions.

And there is certainly good fanfic on the internet. Not necessarily finished novels, but I've read many excellent beginnings and middle of fan novels, as well as a few good complete short stories. What series would you like examples from? Pirates of the Carribean? Final Fantasy 8? Fushigi Yuugi? Petshop of Horrors? Harry Potter?

I think part of the problem is that people seem to be judging fanfic by its worst elements. That is like judging all of fiction by the slush pile. Is there a lot of bad writing? Yes. Is there rampant out-of-character behavior in many fics? Yes.

But with fanfic, as with professional work, you have to know where to look. If you are checking out fanfiction.net (which is nicknamed the Pit of Voles for a reason), then yes, you will find a ton of dreck. That is where every fourteen year old trying to piece together their first story posts. That is where you will find the great majority of first-timers, dipping their toe into writing.

I was fortunate. I stumbled onto a small board specific to my fandom that encouraged quality writing. I received critiques from people with experience in writing workshops, and have spent the last several years working to improve my writing. I have nearly finished a fanfiction 'novel' based on a series of computer games. It has been an interesting mix of original and fan work. The setting and supporting characters are not mine, but the protagonist is purely my creation, since in the game you design your own character. My work is nearly 700k words, and is by no means the longest work on the board. There are a number of writers there who, like me, are using the skills they have gained to work on original projects.

Some people have raised the legal issue. It might interest you to know that many writers have given their fans permission to write fanfiction. J.K. Rowling, for example, even has links to fanfiction sites on her official website. In my own fandom, one of the game's designers was at one time a regular at our board. He wrote several stories based on the game he helped create. Therefore, I think we can reasonably say our board has their blessing.

For myself, if and when I am published, I would be thrilled to learn that people are writing fanfiction based on my work. Even if it is completely horrible writing, it means that my writing, my world, and my characters have touched them in a way that makes them want to be a part of it.

The first real novels I ever read were fanfic. It was the resurrected writings of Robert E. Howard's Conan, rewritten and edited by Lin Carter and L. Sprague de Campe. Since that time other, less stellar, authors have tried their hand at Conan.

Around this time James Blish was writing Star Trek fanfic.

My son is reading many of the novels based on Star Wars. That is fanfic.

My first few attempts at writing in high school were either in the style of Robert E. Howard or Edgar Rice Burroughs.
As far as the internet variety, I've never read it, only heard how bad it is.

Jamesaritchie said:

I don't think any of those guys were writing fanfic. Fanfic in the way it's done on the internet pretty much does guarantee horrible writing. But I could be wrong. Just show me some good fanfic on the internet.

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Although I really enjoyed the movie Gladiator, I was left a bit hungry from curiosity, about inadequately explained relationships in the early life of Maximus. Particularly his hinted at love relationship with Lucilla, the emperor's daughter.

Just this past week I goggled a search about the two of them and stumbled upon and excellent piece of fanfiction that answers all my questions on that subject. Actually it's and fanfic prequel.

http://www.gladiatorstories.com/english/index.html

Take a gander and see if you don't get hooked like I did. Aside from a few typos, it's excellent.

But that isn't Gladiotor's TRUE backstory, is it? Why would you want to read someone else's (other than the original creator) idea of what his backstory was? That would seem totally unsatisfying to me if my goal was to truly find out more about the character.


Unless that is an authorized fanfic created from guidelines from the original creator's, that isn't something I'd be interested in.


The Star Wars books are authorized by Lucas (as far as I know) and they follow guidelines set by Lucasfilms (I believe).


This is just some random writings as far as I'm concerned.

Shadow_Ferret said:

As far as the internet variety, I've never read it, only heard how bad it is.

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Oh, it is beyond bad. The only way to understand is to read a little for yourself. Make sure you have a barfbag handy. You may also need to scrub out the inside of your brain with steel wool afterwards.

http://www.fanfiction.net

I know a number of now-published authors (myself included) who got started by "playing" with fanfic.

Fortunately I stumbled into a place where there were folks who knew something about craft who could begin teaching me the basics of POV, show vs. tell, etc.

In fanfic, like in any writing, there are two camps of people. There are those who want to learn and want to make their writing the best it can be, and there are those content to slap anything onto a "page" and call it done. (And usually call it GOOD, too, which is most often not the case.)

The majority of fanfic writers probably fall into the second camp. They are truly playing and they don't want to invest the work needed to make the product the best it can be for their readers. Still, there are those who invest time, sweat and tears into improving their work.

The comparison to the slush pile is appropriate. There's slush in the pile that comes from people who don't want to invest the time needed to learn and improve their craft. Much of it is painful to read.

Is fanfic illegal? Yes. But if the intent is not to profit from it, no one is selling their fanfic to make money, then I think it's no harm, no foul. (There are people who sell fanfic. Shame on them.)

I stumbled onto the Star Trek books early on as a kid (I have a very battered copy of Spock Must Die around here someplace, and loads of first print editions of the early novels <G>), and they were a constant must-buy for me.

Of course, those are "professional fanfics" at this point. And yes, those are authorized and controled by the people to whom the "universe" belongs.
Tie-in novels are big business these days, but the roots go back to fanfic.

Susan G.