NEPAT Overflow [Archive] - Page 19 - Absolute Write Water Cooler

triceretops

03-22-2006, 01:29 PM

THE FOLLOWING IS FROM A PA AUTHOR, WHO CLAIMS HE SUFFERED YEARS OF SUBMISSIONS WITHOUT SUCCESS, BUT WILL ADMIT THAT MOST OF THEM WERE EMAIL. I THINK HE IS VERY INTELLIGENT, AND HIS BOOK JUST MIGHT BE THE CAT'S MEOW. BUT THE RETORIC I SEE SEEMS SUSPICIOUSLY GLEANED FROM THE MANEFESTO THAT IS PA. (THIS WAS SNIPPED FOR LENGTH, BUT NO WHERE DOES HE EVER MENTION THE USEFULNESS OF AGENTS).

I had to do something. I had to break this vile habit. (SUBMITTING IS HARD WORK AND PART OF THE GAME, MY FRIEND--IT'S MORE OF A CHORE THAN A VILE HABIT) In near desperation, I turned to Publish America (PA). I had no “rose-colored” glasses in considering PA. I had researched them. From what I gleaned off the Internet, I considered them basically a vanity publisher with a twist.(A VANITY PUB WITH A TWIST IS A TWISTED VANITY) They didn’t charge for their services. What I found with them was quite different. (HOW MANY BOOKS DID YOU BUY, AND WHAT WAS YOUR PROMOTION BUDGET LIKE?)
I found a wealth of resources on all aspects of publishing. (AND IT'S HOGWASH FROM TWO FAILED AUTHORS AND A CONVICTED CRIMINAL). I found a helpful staff of people all motivated to help me as an author.(THEY WERE MOTIVATED TO GET YOU THROUGH THE PROCESS AS FAST AS POSSIBLE AND AWAIT YOUR BOOK PURCHASES--WHAT TYPE OF CONTENT EDITING DID YOU RECEIVE?) I found a strong and supportive community of authors.(THE PAMB IS DESIGNED AS A PROMOTION AND MARKETING TOOL FOR PA). My book is as well covered as I would expect any trade-paperback to be from any publisher and all of this cost me…not one penny! (WHAT ABOUT THAT 19.95 PRICE OF YOUR BOOK--NOT OUT-OF-LINE? AND THE COVER CREDIT GOES TO LIGHTNING SOURCE).

More importantly, I found a company single-handedly attempting to revolutionize a tightly-controlled, elitist industry…one that is badly in need of re-engineering. (IT'S BEEN THIS WAY SINCE THE START AND IS DOING FINE WITHOUT PA'S HELP--AND OF COURSE, THE ELITIST VIEW HAS TO BE THROWN INTO THE MIX AGAIN) In my IT career, I had been on both the receiving and the giving end of many industry revolutions and could recognize one right away. Much of the negativity which abounds on the Internet concerning PA is a direct result of PA’s progress in that very revolution. (THEY ARE CURRENTLY COLLAPSING UNDER THEIR OWN WEIGHT, BEING SUED, DISRESPECTED AND TAKEN TO COURTS) PA has done the hard part in this revolution. (A VAINITY REVOLUTION)They have suffered the “slings and arrows” from the vested interests who are feeling the heat of their presence.(PA IS FEELING THE HEAT, THEY ARE UNKNOWN AND A LAUGHING STOCK IN THE INDUSTRY--NO REVIEWS, CREDITS, BOOK STORE OR LIBRARY PLACEMENT) It is up to the PA authors to take things from here through to a true Internet based re-engineering of the publishing industry.(BOOKS WITHOUT DISTRIBUTION, REVIEWS, EDITING AND GUIDANCE WILL NEVER BE ACCEPTED WITHIN THE READING PUBLIC--AND DON'T YOU THINK THE PA AUTHORS HAVE DONE ENOUGH, AFTER THEY'VE DONE IT ALL?) And there are enough of us to truly make the sting of our presence felt in the marketplace. (YOUR TURNOVER FROM HONEYMOON TO DISAPPOINTMENT AND FINANCIAL COLLAPSE SAYS THAT YOU WILL NEVER ALL BE TOGETHER FOR THIS MOMENTOUS WAR DURING THE SAME TIME PERIOD FOR ANY COLLABORATION TO CORRECT THE INDUSTRY--THE MESSAGE BOARDS PROVE THIS OUT--AND THAT DOES NOT EVEN COUNT THE BANNED AUTHORS, WHO ARE DISPELLED AND TOSSED INTO TO THE CORN FIELD BY THE WONDERFUL PUBLISHERS WHO ARE GIVING YOU ALL THE SUPPORT AND TRUTHFUL INDUSTRY KNOWLEDGE YOU NEED)

Subsidy and vanity presses are taking a beating. (ONLY FROM ANOTHER VAINITY PRESS) Why would anyone use them when PA will provide the same services at zero cost and with no less a burden on self-promotion by the authors? For that matter, why would you ever bother to submit to a “traditional” publisher when as an unknown author you’re going to receive roughly the same support from PA as you would from Random House? (MY GAWD, I DON'T EVEN WANT TO TOUCH THIS ONE--BUT: CATALOGS, ADS, EDITING, COVER DESIGN, LARGE ADVANCES, CORRECT AND TIMELY ROYALTIES, ARRANGED SIGNINGS (WITH FREE BOOKS), T.V., RADIO, PRESS RELEASES, HUNDREDS OF REVIEW COPIES--GET THE POINT?)

So if you need to break a life-threatening submissions habit…if you are not afraid of participating in a little revolution…or if you just appreciate a good American underdog story…then discount much of what you’ve read and strongly consider joining the PA army of authors. We are legion, we have good products, and we are making in-roads into the last bastion of resistance…the book distribution and retail outlets. (OKAY, MAJOR PUBLISHING AS WE KNOW IT, IS GOING DOWN, AND IT'S THE PA ARMY--THIS LEGION, THAT'S GOING TO DO IT. THE ONLY LEGION IS THE LEGION OF AUTHORS THEY ARE APT TO SNAG WITH THEIR FALSE AND MISLEADING ADVERTIZING, MAKING GRAND CLAIMS, SKIRTING THE LAW, AND GETTING FILTHY RICH SELLING YOUR PRODUCT (THAT YOU PRODUCED) BACK TO YOU AT ASTOUNDING PRICES. AND WHO, PRAY TELL, IS THE SMART ONE HERE?

Tri have um' heap big headache. Guh.

Ol' Fashioned Girl

03-22-2006, 03:53 PM

Where'd this come froml, Tri? Are we sure it's a real PA author and not just some tripe shot out there by the Stooges as part of their fishing for new recruits to this 'legion'? Sounds more like an ad, complete with testimonial, to me.

Gravity

03-22-2006, 04:17 PM

IMHO, this one has Clopper's greasy prints all over it. Folks, PA is hurting, and hurting badly. They've been releasing authors at an astounding rate, and now it appears their vaunted European arm, PublishAtlantica, has gone toes up. Watch this space...

John

rekirts

03-22-2006, 05:02 PM

we are making in-roads into the last bastion of resistance…the book distribution and retail outlets. I would think the last bastion of resistance is the book-buying public. Or in the case of PA, the book-not-buying public.

Kevin Yarbrough

03-22-2006, 06:30 PM

and now it appears their vaunted European arm, PublishAtlantica, has gone toes up.

You hear that sound? Sounds like a cacophony of trumpets. The walls of Jerricho are a fallin'.

J.Beth

03-22-2006, 09:34 PM

I have to say it does sound like something "made up" from someone at PA, to simply answer in their own words all the legitimate remarks we come up with. Once you have been a published author through PA you know the downfall of reality. End of story is that you find an agent, work you butt off writing great work, write for magazines, newspapers in the meantime making extra money. JUST work hard like everyone else in this business. I have found that even taking some courses on how to sell your magazine articles and work can really be profitable...and it has~ Good luck to those authors still hoping for something big out of their contract and work...the editing is embarrassing and unless all you want is to have a book you wrote in your hands and don't pay a dime.....then that is what you get....and harassing dozens of family and friends. J.Beth

James D. Macdonald

03-23-2006, 12:49 AM

Sounds more like an ad, complete with testimonial, to me.

Guys, not bragging (I'm just one mid-list genre writer), but I personally sold more books through bookstores last year than all PublishAmerica authors combined did, based on PA's own sales letters.

If there's a revolution going on ....

Larry claims to have been an IT guy, so maybe this is him. Got a URL where this appeared?

James D. Macdonald

03-23-2006, 01:59 AM

Presented without comment: http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?p=142049

CaoPaux

03-23-2006, 02:10 AM

Presented without comment: http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?p=142049 :Headbang:

Nexusman

03-23-2006, 02:15 AM

Presented without comment: http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?p=142049

Wow. I've dealt with rejections (that I've perceived as being) harsher than that from agents.

-Nick

mdin

03-23-2006, 02:20 AM

At my work, we use press releases as scrap. Between the two newspapers and all the stuff that comes with it, there are about 900 full-time employees.

We never run out of scrap paper. Think about it. And that's just the ones that come via snail mail and fax. Most come via email.

I'm thinking about collecting the most interesting ones ("I have proof the mayor is the antichrist!" etc.) and making a book out of them.

Christine N.

03-23-2006, 02:23 AM

Scribhneoir

03-23-2006, 02:37 AM

Larry claims to have been an IT guy, so maybe this is him. Got a URL where this appeared?

I saw the posts yesterday pointing to this guy's blog, which is where this screed appears, but I didn't make a note of the URL. I think he's a real PA author and not Larry in disguise, mostly because it seems his original post and the correction to the link that he posted as "Oops" have both been deleted. His screen name is Sidekick Harry, or something like that.

book_maven

03-23-2006, 02:40 AM

You may not have a comment, James, but I do. That author just killed any chance of ever being mentioned by that newspaper. Childish vindictive actions against media are just plain stupid.

P.S.. Author, you are getting very bad advice from others on that board. You should always--ALWAYS--maintain an air of professionallism even when things you don't like happen.

mdin

03-23-2006, 02:52 AM

http://sidekickharry.blogspot.com/

found via Google's blog search engine, http://blogsearch.google.com

Maddog

03-23-2006, 03:13 AM

From the PAMB

I just received notice in the mail (via special delivery) today that I have been included in the 2006/2007 Manchester Who's Who Among Professional Women in Writing and Publishing!

You can't imagine how great this makes me feel! The letter states that inclusion is considered as the single highest mark of achievement and is an honor shared by professional women throughout America!

I received this personalized letter from the Editor in Chief herself! Talk about adding this page to my portfolio and being as happy as all get out! The heck with the portfolio, I'm gonna frame it!

Just had to share my joy

I wonder if she's won a poetry.com contest as well. It would be a trifecta in the publishing scam biz.

James D. Macdonald

03-23-2006, 03:44 AM

http://sidekickharry.blogspot.com/

found via Google's blog search engine, http://blogsearch.google.com

I haven't looked and don't know anything about the guy, but I'll bet you a dollar advance (suitable for framing) that his book hasn't come out yet.

PVish

03-23-2006, 03:59 AM

From the PAMB
I wonder if she's won a poetry.com contest as well. It would be a trifecta in the publishing scam biz.

That would be my guess. One look at the Manchester Who's Who website ("Featuring world class biographies in every industry and profession") http://www.manchesterwhoswho.com is enough to tip off most people that it isn't about being recognized for doing a great job as a writer:

ABOUT MANCHESTER WHO'S WHO REGISTRY

Business to business and small business networking directory for Executives & Professionals.

Manchester Who's Who delivers its members the recognition and competitive edge needed to effectively network and do business. Honor's Club provides tremendous networking value for business owners looking to build new client and customer relations, as well as for individuals seeking to advance within their company to a higher career position.

Manchester Who's Who highlights executives and professionals in virtually every industry and profession. Our extensive membership base is International, and is most prominent throughout the United States, Australia, Canada and England.

To translate "provides tremendous networking value for business owners looking to build new client and customer relations": We're gonna sell your name, email, and phone number to lots of mailing lists! Enjoy all those offers you're gonna get!

The Editor in Chief herself sent the woman a letter? Is that like the Ely guy's personal letter from the ILP? Or the Publisher's Clearinghouse letters with the little simulated handwritten note?

James D. Macdonald

03-23-2006, 06:34 AM

I haven't looked and don't know anything about the guy, but I'll bet you a dollar advance (suitable for framing) that his book hasn't come out yet.

And I would have lost that bet.

If Amazon is to be believed, his book came out in February 2005.

Amazon.com Sales Rank: #3,297,954 in Books

Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: None

From Ingram's stock check number:

Total on hand: 0
Total on order: 0
Total on backorder: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last weeks' adjusted demand: 0
Total sold this year: 0
Total sold last year: 1

Tell me again about that revolution?

aruna

03-23-2006, 10:54 AM

http://sidekickharry.blogspot.com/

found via Google's blog search engine, http://blogsearch.google.com

Oh my....:e2paperba :e2zzz:

Much of the negativity which abounds on the Internet concerning PA is a direct result of PA’s progress in that very revolution. PA has done the hard part in this revolution. They have suffered the “slings and arrows” from the vested interests who are feeling the heat of their presence. It is up to the PA authors to take things from here through to a true Internet based re-engineering of the publishing industry. And there are enough of us to truly make the sting of our presence felt in the marketplace.

triceretops

03-23-2006, 11:32 AM

Ah, I see everybody found that link. It does sound exactly like it came from the lips of Meiners and Clopper. I think it was an afterthought of the author to pander to those sensibilities--almost a mimic of the PA credo. I suspect it came straight out of that tome, Howto Upset a Goliath Book Biz, the PA bootcamp training manual.

Tri

DaveKuzminski

03-23-2006, 05:02 PM

Gee, I got one of those Manchester letters yesterday at work. According to it, I'm being considered for inclusion into their grouping for Executives and Professionals. Gee, I wonder how much their book costs and whether it's sold at Jiffy Lubes or Holiday Inns?

endless rewrite

03-24-2006, 12:38 PM

Master Manipulator
Don Bolena Jr.Hello, my name is Don Bolena Jr. I hope to help both men and women in all walks of life to develop an understanding of when they are being manipulated. This is not a long read and I have put it on paper as plain as I possibly could. As you read through this you will see that I choose not to sugar coat anything. I choose to be brutally honest and tell you the facts. What I hope to do is to take you in the mind of probably one of the greatest manipulators you have ever heard of, and believe me, anyone who knows me can attest that this is a fact.

This is one of PAs new releases. I was reading the blurb and once I had finished choking on my morning Shreddies, I got to thinking about a new PA book along the same lines.

What about a submitting the NEPAT in book form with a no edit option? How fantastic if that were accepted! It would be a hefty volume with a price to match, we could even use this guy's blurb. So all we need now is a title as Master Manipulator is taken and Master Bates is a Captain Pugwash character. Any suggestions?

James D. Macdonald

03-24-2006, 06:42 PM

There's a problem with getting copyright permission from the various authors of the NEPAT posts, and I'm told that the "aquisition team" at PA does have some standards: they reject any book with characters named Larry, Miranda, or Willem.

Kevin Yarbrough

03-24-2006, 06:51 PM

Then we change the names to Lammy, Mowanda, and Willma. And as for copyright? When did that bother PA before? Cough Cough: Cancer Boy :Cough Cough

endless rewrite

03-24-2006, 06:55 PM

So it ends, like so many dreams, crushed under the stacked heels of the three horsemen of the apopolectic. (soz Miranda)

There was a fourth horseman but he fell off his purple pony.

Kevin Yarbrough

03-24-2006, 07:23 PM

There was a fourth horseman but he fell off his purple pony.

I will have to ask you to retract that statement or I will sue you for libel. Purple has never been proven to be a part of the Four Horsemen, that case was drop by the courts for lack of evidence and the mysterious dissaperence of the material witness.

Purple will not have his good name besmirched again, he promises.

Canada James

03-25-2006, 06:22 AM

Yeah, I never send just a press release, and never by e-mail. Always printed, and clipped to a copy of the media kit. Sometimes also with a copy of the book. At least they have to open it and it's more than one sheet of paper.

But, then again, I also know that if they don't reply that it's ok - I know they get a ton of the things.

I just send an email or fax introducing myself. That's it. They get the book/media kit from my publisher's marketing gal (who's awesome, by the way).

My favourite response was one paper that wrote back to say that my book was already on their "top 20 books of the season" scheduled for review.

I never send books. Never send media kits. <shrug>

James

Christine N.

03-25-2006, 03:38 PM

LOL. Well, James, normally the publicist gal (who is also awesome) would do it. But she's in Canada, and I'm here. So I help out, and I don't mind it. She made up the media kit and the PR, I just print and mail. Or maybe I wrote the PR and she looked it over; I don't remember. We did work together though.

The books I send, though, I didn't have to pay for.

I got into both the local papers here; one a blurb and pic about an event, one a whole article all about 'lil old me.

What I don't do is schedule my own booksignings. The Publicity Goddess does all that. I just call the store to make sure the date and time and that they got the books.

MacAllister

03-25-2006, 09:31 PM

Ahh. Vicki. Welcome back.

I see the entire body of your AW posting history--save your intro in the newbie thread--is here in this PA thread. That's...umm...interesting.

What's your stake in this, if I may ask? And what on earth are you on about, with the BBC reference?

Dawno

03-25-2006, 09:35 PM

The "BBC" angle is something vicki herself threw out in this post. (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=539305#post539305)

Bufty

03-25-2006, 09:37 PM

And just for accuracy - our friend's 2 informative intitial newbie posts are here.
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29142

MacAllister

03-25-2006, 09:42 PM

Ah--thanks, Bufty. I caught the first, not the second.

So I'm curious as to why you're so combative about defending PA, Vicki. You sort of sound rather as if you've an agenda of your own, which is totally cool--lots of people do--but lets cut to the chase, then, shall we?

All of our cards are already on the table.

aruna

03-25-2006, 09:50 PM

Therein lies a story.

Hi Vicki. You've been hinting you know something about BBC lurkers - why not come out straight and tell us?

Christine N.

03-25-2006, 10:54 PM

Not to rock the boat or anything, but has anyone checked vicki's IP address?

She sounds a bit like another Brit who likes to say we twist words to our own uses... unlike PA, ya know, who's honest about everything, right?

vicki

03-25-2006, 11:14 PM

BBC Watchdog, a consumer programme that exposes scams, has had their eyes on PublishAmerica for some time. They have contacted me, Lucia White, and a couple other members from this forum, and have been collecting stories. I'm sure they've read this thread from time to time. However, with the "fall" of PublishAtlantica, they're probably no longer interested. PA's a dead horse in Britain.
Absolutely.

janetbellinger

03-25-2006, 11:54 PM

Overhead, it's stormy skies, but the clouds have cleared from out my eyes.

Janet

Bufty

03-25-2006, 11:57 PM

Meaning? You think no one but you worked this possibility out?

Absolutely.

Kevin Yarbrough

03-26-2006, 01:12 AM

First, because the organization of a web-based message board is horrible. Second, because editing the order is nearly impossible. Third, because the search and index function here is rudimentary at best. Fourth, because this isn't the All-PA-All-The-Time board. Fifth, because a discussion board that doesn't allow discussion is a waste of capability.

Those are just the technical reasons. The tactical reason is that the list you provide will be short, short, short. Compare that list (what, twenty? maybe you'll find an order of magnitude more and get the names of 200) of people who've been released. You will never hear of the majority of the folks who've been released -- only Larry, Willem, and Miranda know who they all are, and they aren't going to tell you. Put that up against a list of 17,000. It'll reinforce PA's position that there are only a disgruntled few.

I don't think adding one more thread will make this place AW an all PA all the time board, but so be it.

Will it reinforce PA's position that we are a disgruntled few? No. The thread is up at Ed and Soots and the way it is set up is if the author asked to be released or not and some of them did not. They also started a thread for the abusive emails.

So, if you are going to be true to your word and put up a link to a place then make one to there. And thank you for taking the time to explain it to me as to why you won't do this instead of just saying no like the others did.

vicki

03-26-2006, 02:20 AM

Meaning? You think no one but you worked this possibility out?
I'd think it would be impossible for anyone not to have worked out the possibility, considering the repetitive use of the word 'absolutely' on live British television recently. Britain is rapidly becoming a society of lurkers, eavesdroppers and mimics (no fun unless your victim knows you are lurking) and nobody is better at it than the British press/media.

"No man is an island" should be "Your never alone in the British Isles"

The reputation of the British media is well-earned and well-deserved.

Bufty

03-26-2006, 02:24 AM

Vicki, Why don't you come out and say what's bugging you? Remembering this Thread is restricted to the ill-doings of Publish America. If it's nothing to do with Publish America, pick another Forum.

Canada James

03-26-2006, 07:38 AM

What I don't do is schedule my own booksignings. The Publicity Goddess does all that. I just call the store to make sure the date and time and that they got the books.

LOL. The only thing I do is schedule signings - though I'll be the first to say that I hate them. I do the initial book launch for family and friends to celebrate the book and then that's all I want to do as far as bookstore appearances go.

I do book myself into schools and libraries ... but I get paid a hefty fee for doing so. In fact, I'm willing to be there isn't a PA author whose royalties have ever matched even one paid school visit of mine (let alone the royalties from the few books that get sold due to the visit).

James

vicki

03-26-2006, 11:46 AM

Vicki, Why don't you come out and say what's bugging you? Remembering this Thread is restricted to the ill-doings of Publish America. If it's nothing to do with Publish America, pick another Forum.
The British media are bugging me.

BBC Watchdog, a consumer programme that exposes scams, has had their eyes on PublishAmerica for some time. They have contacted me, Lucia White, and a couple other members from this forum, and have been collecting stories. I'm sure they've read this thread from time to time. However, with the "fall" of PublishAtlantica, they're probably no longer interested. PA's a dead horse in Britain
If the BBC have contacted a non-PA author, such as Aruna, they can contact and discuss PA with me also, anytime.

vicki

03-26-2006, 02:25 PM

xhouseboy

03-26-2006, 03:15 PM

[QUOTE] The British media are bugging me.

I still don't totally get this, Vicki.

Are they bugging you, as in giving you a hard time? Or do they just generally bug you in the broader sense?

If the BBC have contacted a non-PA author, such as Aruna, they can contact and discuss PA with me also, anytime.

Like Aruna said, they contacted her a long time ago. Are you a bit put out because they didn't contact you, and that's perhaps why you're having a dig at them? I'm pretty sure it's not personal, the fact that you weren't contacted.

Christine N.

03-26-2006, 03:40 PM

I'm working on that now. I have my first school visit next month. But I'm not getting paid for it - it's my first one, and I'm doing it for a friend who's the teacher. But I won't be doing freebies after that. You want me, you're gonna pay for it :)

I agree CJ - one school visit, heck one single session, would be more than 96% of any PA author's royalties.

And I do book those myself :) But I like bookstore appearances; I'm a people person.

SC Harrison

03-26-2006, 06:42 PM

Yes, Aruna, I do have a story. I've posted a chapter of the novel I'm working on here (Work in progress: please read and critique):

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=541586#post541586

I would apprecite any feedback.

Thank you.

I find it odd that the chapter you chose to post in the SYW forum details some of the aspects of harassment and stalking, with references to behavior that could be loosely associated with the more active (e-mails, guestbook slamming) anti-PA movement. There is even a paragraph which infers the individual could blame the time they waste stalking for their lack of success as a writer.

I also find it odd that the very first post you made on AW was an effort to locate or call attention to the debate between Uncle Jim and Shelagh Watkins.

I've been wrong before, Vicki, but your enigmatic behavior is bound to raise many questions about your identity and motives. If this is what you hope to achieve, go back and read some of your own work.

Saundra Julian

03-26-2006, 07:23 PM

Congratulations, Ed! :D

xhouseboy

03-26-2006, 07:49 PM

Last year, my friend’s first novel was published and she wrote to her American friends and told them about her novel. They wrote back and congratulated her. Then, at Christmas, they added a note to their annual Christmas letter saying that they hadn’t bought her book but they would pick one up somewhere along the line.

My friend had sent four gifts to friends who couldn’t be bothered to buy her book. It is just one of numerous disappointments she has had since her book was published.

Who's your UK friend, Vicki? If you don't mind me asking.

The following was posted by Shelagh some time back:

I'm a realist and I know that people mean well when they say they are going to buy my book. They think to themselves that it doesn't matter if they don't buy the book because somebody else will do. It's like organising a party where nobody turns up. Everybody thinks that they won't be missed because there will be so many people there.

vicki

03-26-2006, 08:18 PM

icerose

03-26-2006, 08:26 PM

I'm a realist and I know that people mean well when they say they are going to buy my book. They think to themselves that it doesn't matter if they don't buy the book because somebody else will do. It's like organising a party where nobody turns up. Everybody thinks that they won't be missed because there will be so many people there.

This statement right here, is one of the biggest points referring to friends and family.

See commercial publishers don't count on good intentions to sell their books. They don't market to sympathetic and supportive family members and friends.

They market to people who will buy the book because they want to read the book, not support the author.

That sympathy and support (including the author themselves and their misguided marketing attempts) is nearly the SOLE income for publish america. Does anyone else see how WRONG this is?

Commercial = readers market
Publish America/vanity= friends family and author market.

Commercial = big audience
PA/vanity = small audience

Commercial = positive royalties paid, often in hundreds or even thousands of dollars and much more.
PA/vanity = pennies or putting you at a loss due to lack of support from publisher.

Commercial = what you put in, helps increase often exponentially on the sales of your book.
PA/Vanity = what you put in, often you lose and never see again. Top marketers in PA are now bankrupt. What does that tell you?

SC Harrison

03-26-2006, 08:43 PM

I asked my friend if I could post her name on this thread and she said no. She gave her own reasons, and didn't want to be discussed here. If she joins the forum, I've told her that she can say that I'm her friend. If she joins, she'll let you know.

This is a warning to all—do not try to access Vicki's site. I just got slammed by multiple viruses while attempting to access her mailbag. I'm about to begin a scan to track them down and (hopefully) minimize the damage.

xhouseboy

03-26-2006, 09:11 PM

I asked my friend if I could post her name on this thread and she said no. She gave her own reasons, and didn't want to be discussed here. If she joins the forum, I've told her that she can say that I'm her friend. If she joins, she'll let you know.

Reason I asked is that last quote was posted by someone who used to be a member here, and her complaint was very similar to your friend's.

just curious..

Jean Marie

03-26-2006, 09:34 PM

This is a warning to all—do not try to access Vicki's site. I just got slammed by multiple viruses while attempting to access her mailbag. I'm about to begin a scan to track them down and (hopefully) minimize the damage.
Wow, isn't that sweet http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/emoteranting.gif

I'd hate to jump to conclusions as to Vicki's identity, however...

Steve, hope you didn't lose any WIP's http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/EmoteHug2.gif

MacAllister

03-26-2006, 09:43 PM

I did not have any trouble with Vicki's site, folks--but I've got excellent and up-to-date security running, and use Firefox, not IE. Check your firewall and antivirus programs. Keep them tuned and running. Check your anti-spyware. Carefully consider using a browser that's NOT IE. Most of the trojans and viruses out there are written specifically to penetrate Internet Explorer--there are lots of other browser options.

aruna

03-26-2006, 09:49 PM

I'd hate to jump to conclusions as to Vicki's identity, however...

Well, let's not do any jumping but examine the FACTS:

1. Vicki's first post was that of an innocent but neutral newbie, asking for the thread behind the proof that PA is not a vanity press.

2. She is given the link to the Shelagh vs UJ discussion

3. She immediately comes back and says that her conclusion is that PA is NOT a vanity press, ie she suppors Shelagh's lame arguments

4. She is apparently British

5. She wonders why the BBC contacted me, a non PA author, about PA, and not her. But she has only been here for a day, and has not identified herself as a PA author, Why on earth should the BBC have contacted her - in that short space of time, and knowing squat about her?

6. She has a friend whose friends didn't buy her books (as Shelagh did)

7. She complains about the British press (as did Shelagh, though in S's case it was the Times)

8. She posts a chapter of her book that deals with stalking, but in an extremely non-fictional style

hmmmmmmmmmmmm................;)

mdin

03-26-2006, 09:57 PM

It's not Vicki, it's Tripod. The popups and other crap can be nasty. They aren't viruses, it's spyware.

As Mac suggested, I highly recommend firefox instead of IE. I would also recommend Vicki move her site somewhere else.

SC Harrison

03-26-2006, 11:10 PM

Steve, hope you didn't lose any WIP's http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/EmoteHug2.gif

I lost most of the second page from a short story I started last night and worked on some this morning. I forgot to save before I went to play on the Internet, and had to reboot to get out of that stupid pop-up fiasco.

Meh. I think I was going in the wrong direction with the story anyway. This incident may have saved the life of a fictional person. We'll see.

icerose

03-26-2006, 11:16 PM

Hey Steve,

I'm glad it helped you, but when this happens again. Right click on the internet explorer group and click close group. If you have to go into your network settings and disable your network connection so that the internet feed is blocked, close all the windows, then enable it.

I hope you get it all worked out.

Janet, those are exactly my feelings. I want my book to be read because its pretty darn good, not out of sympathy or obligation. But this is exactly how PA operates and they encourage these types of sales only. Its very sad.

Vicky - that's why I don't use free sites. I pay for my own. But do some research, there are some free sites without all that crap attached. Good luck with fixing your site.

Sara

Sassenach

03-26-2006, 11:23 PM

Vicki, meet Shelagh.

Shelagh, say hello to Vicki.

Oh...you've already met?

icerose

03-26-2006, 11:32 PM

Vicki, meet Shelagh.

Shelagh, say hello to Vicki.

Oh...you've already met?

I think this should be up to the mods to decide. They're intelligent enough to come to their own conclusions. This way we can focus on the real topic.

Publish America.

DeadlyAccurate

03-27-2006, 12:59 AM

Apparently, some people are doubting the validity of the users.

Four new people sign up on the same day and they all agree with each other. How convenient. Do you think we are all idiots? Move on to some other board.

I guess that person is new to messageboards, if the concept that multiple people might suddenly show up and post is strange. Let's hope he never gets Slash-dotted.

LeslieB

03-27-2006, 02:06 AM

Apparently, some people are doubting the validity of the users.

I guess that person is new to messageboards, if the concept that multiple people might suddenly show up and post is strange. Let's hope he never gets Slash-dotted.

*wince* Maybe one of the big names should explain what is going on. The locals seem to think that Ms. Crispin, of all people, is the guy who started the thread's sockpuppet. I don't think they have any idea how much outside attention this is getting.

Canada James

03-27-2006, 03:28 AM

surfwordz

03-27-2006, 07:07 AM

Looks like I pissed off the folks at PA pretty good. Not long after I posted my first reply in this thread {a few pages back on pg. 70-something, in case you're wondering}, I recieved an e-mail from Jessica saying they are sorry to inform me that they are no longer interested in publish my book. I think I'll go stick my head in the sand shamefully...Not!!!

What's strange is that same day, I recieved a phone call from someone at AuthorHouse who was interested in dealing with me. I told her about my acceptance letter from PA and asked if they knew what they {PA} are doing. The person claimed AuthorHouse is nothing like PA or any other Publishing company for that matter.

However, I did a search and found pretty much what I expected. More disgruntled authors bashing them for doing some of the same things that PA is doing to their clients.

Who can you trust these days?

On a side note, I was wondering if anyone here has ever used Diggory Press? It seems like a pretty cheap way to publish on your own. Any ideas?

Mahalo :)

janetbellinger

03-27-2006, 07:23 AM

I don't think Author House has the best rep, either. I think a safe bet is that anywhere you're encouraged to email mss, should be regarded with suspicion.
Likewise anyplace that seems eager to receive mss. I guess there are self publishing houses with a good rep. but from what I've read and heard, it might be difficult to find bookstores to sell them.

James D. Macdonald

03-27-2006, 07:27 AM

Diggory and AuthorHouse are both vanity presses.

Why are you interested in self-publishing? (This probably isn't the thread to answer that question.)

surfwordz

03-27-2006, 07:47 AM

Diggory and AuthorHouse are both vanity presses.

Why are you interested in self-publishing? (This probably isn't the thread to answer that question.)

I don't know, I'm just exporing what's out there, I guess. It's just that everytime I get close to making this thing happen {my book}, something always brings me down. I should be trying to contact real actual traditional publishers, but I'm still stuck with coming up with a decent query. Maybe I really should go stick my head in the sand, huh? :cry:

BTW, I love this thread and I'm sorry for the hi-jack. :)

Back to the beatings!!! :D

Rambling

03-27-2006, 01:47 PM

(from NEPAT)

this board:
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=1625

has had a sudden influx from various anti-PA communities. Seeing half-a-dozen new users, all anti-PA, all signing in on the same day, they have come to the conclusion that the accounts are all sock puppets of one person.

Since most of the people posting are using their real names and are well known to anyone who has been following the saga, this is somewhat amusing. One is almost tempted to sign on and post another 'we're all seperate people! Honest!', which, of course, will be taken as more sock puppetry.

But to them, in their community (which the new users are not really trying to join), one post on the subject matter is informative, five is spam. I can't say I really blame them! :)

James D. Macdonald

03-27-2006, 03:05 PM

Page 74 of the NEPAT (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=536066#post536066), Surfwordz, but who's counting, eh?

SC Harrison

03-27-2006, 05:10 PM

But to them, in their community (which the new users are not really trying to join), one post on the subject matter is informative, five is spam. I can't say I really blame them! :)

Every group like this is going to have its "regulars", who look suspiciously at new people who seem to be using the forum to forward their own agenda. I've been at AW for some six months now, and I still have a few detectives dogging my footsteps, as if I'm some deep cover agent or something.

Dawno

03-27-2006, 06:18 PM

ResearchGuy

03-27-2006, 07:22 PM

... I'm still stuck with coming up with a decent query....
The author is not necessarily the best person to write the query. (That is, you might want to have someone who is qualified to do so read the manuscript, pick your brain about market and competition, and draft a query letter.)

In any event, there are books and articles on query-writing. Jeff Herman's Guide to Book Publishers, Editors, & Literary Agents (2005 ed., at least) has a concise article on queries, for example. The query letter has to sell the agent or publisher on why the book can be expected to sell well, outline the market and how the book can be marketed, address competing titles, what sorts of readers would like the book (if they enjoyed such and such, they will enjoy my book, that sort of thing). The need is to pique the interest of the agent or publisher enough so that they want to see more -- synopsis and sample chapters or whole manuscript. The query gets you in the door.

If you believe in your manuscript, then just do it. But have your query critiqued by folks qualified to critique it before you send it out.

By the way, there is a lot of confusion about self publishing. Author House, iUniverse, and others like that do NOT constitute self-publishing. Real self publishing is a business in which the author also manages all aspects of publishing, contracts for printing, buys such services as editing, cover design, and book design, arranges for distribution to the trade (or other means of distribution appropriate to the book), and owns the ISBN. Fine for some folks, but ONLY for those who are entrepreneurs AND also authors AND who want to make a real business of it. Some people thrive on that sort of thing, but they are a rare breed, and focused on a niche. If you do not want to own and operate a demanding small business, then forget about self-publishing.

Author House, iUniverse, PublishAmerica, and all the rest are subsidy/vanity presses. None will get your books into stores, get trade reviews, or any kind of legitimacy whatsoever. (Real self-publishing, done right--a very difficult process that calls for a hard-headed businessperson/author--on rare occasion can get wide distribution and recognition, but the odds are very highly against that and the self-publisher has to make that his or her full time occupation.) Subsidy/vanity publishing has all of the disadvantages of self publishing and none of the potential advantages.

If it is a serious manuscript, then seek legitimate trade publication. Write a well-crafted query and GET GOING. START somewhere--an agent (examine listings in Herman's book, Writer's Market, Literary Marketplace ... select one who handles your kind of manuscript; then if turned down, go to the next on your list), or a publisher that accepts unagented submissions. Study publishers' guidelines and requirements. And of course, make sure that your manuscript is polished and professionally presented (pay a nerd to proof read and format it if need be). You only get one chance to make a first impression.

--Ken

AnneMarble

03-27-2006, 07:49 PM

It's well worth going back and reading the new posts on the Fredrick newspaper forum (http://www.fredericknewspost.com/se...7&threadid=1625) - Jim did an excellent job (even posted a link to his "Here I am at PA with Atlanta Nights" picture), as did Eddie, Anne, Sharon, Phil and Jenna.

Thanks, Toby, whoever you are!
That link goes back to the Frederick Post home page for some reason. This one might work, at least until they move something else:
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=1625&enterthread=y

Well that whole experience was... odd. You had expressive posts with links to personal websites and to AW, the Post article, etc., clearly written in different styles, and people were accusing them of being the same person. I guess it's easy to forget forget that your forum is just one part of a bigger world.

Yes, I know that happens here sometimes, but not quite in that ... uhm, speed and volume. :) And at least on AW, if people get really suspicious, they think of PMing a moderator to check out what's gonig on.

Gabriele

03-27-2006, 08:26 PM

AnneMarble

03-27-2006, 08:48 PM

Paperback Writer (aka Sheila Viehl) takes a fun view on some not so good marketing ideas suggested on websites.

http://pbackwriter.blogspot.com/2006/03/head-scratch-ten.html#links

Makes you wonder why the helpful people on the PA forums didn't find those yet. ;)
That reminds me of some of the awful, awful ideas I saw in an article in Romantic Times magazine. This was all advice a published author (commercially published) had gathered from other authors, including lots of self-promotion "tips." They included suggestions such as making lots of bookmarks and postcards advertising your book, and then leaving them in the folder when you pay your check at a restaurant because waiters talk to other people. Did the author really think waiters would tell other their customers about her !@#$ vampire novel?! OK, maybe if she left a realllly big tip. ;) But that really reminded me of some of the ideas PA authors had. (And the author who sent this suggestion was published in mass market and trade paperback by commercial publishers.)

Even worse, one author said you should talk about your book to whoever you meet, even to that person you're sitting next to on the plane. Boy, I'd ask the stewardess to get me earplugs so fast!

And another one suggested posing half-nekkid in your cover photo and reading only hot scenes at public readings. Riiiight. Most readers I know would be incredibly turned off by the tackiness.

What's scary is that some of the tackiest and most ... pushy ... ideas came from commercially published authors, not just vanity authors.

James D. Macdonald

03-27-2006, 11:52 PM

Most publicity-by-the-author is useless. What it does is keep the author busy rather than sitting home and fretting.

Lady of Prose

03-27-2006, 11:57 PM

Most publicity-by-the-author is useless. What it does is keep the author busy rather than sitting home and fretting.
I can personally attest to that fact. In addition, depending on your method of publicity and promotion tactics, it can cost you thousands of dollars.

mdin

03-28-2006, 12:17 AM

Wow I didn't think one existed!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PublishAmericaAuthors/?yguid=113292026

There's another, bigger one on Yahoo. Miranda used to post there from what I understand until they kicked her out.

Anyway, back at PA (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=12366):

Post subject: I had to give a reviewer a piece of my mind!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take a look at what a reviewer wrote me concerning my
request to review Thorns of an Inncent Soul. I probably
won't get a very nice review after writing her back, but
she needed to be put in her place!

AnneMarble

03-28-2006, 12:18 AM

In addition, depending on your method of publicity and promotion tactics, it can cost you thousands of dollars.
Not to mention your self-respect and your reputation as an author. Mailing lists, usenet, and message boards are fraught with the burnt corpses of failed author promotional efforts. (A little purple, but I felt like purple prose today.)

This can backlash, as you can see in this article (http://www.writing-world.com/romance/promote.shtml) (scroll to "When Good Authors Do Bad Things")

xhouseboy

03-28-2006, 12:38 AM

I signed on and left a message on the Frederick News-Post comments forum. I hope it may do some good.

The Frederick News-Post Forums - Scam Publish America in the News Post Again! (http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=1625)

-Ann C. Crispin
Writer Beware
www.writerbeware.com (http://www.writerbeware.com)

I set out to post on that thread, and as I drove through the desert I could already feel the eyes watching me from the hills.

When I reached my destination and headed across the street for a drink, a couple of guys in dungarees and a battered old pick-up truck asked me what business I had in their peaceful little town. Was I a-lookin' for trouble? Cos we don't take kindly to strangers here...

SC Harrison

03-28-2006, 01:08 AM

I set out to post on that thread, and as I drove through the desert I could already feel the eyes watching me from the hills.

When I reached my destination and headed across the street for a drink, a couple of guys in dungarees and a battered old pick-up truck asked me what business I had in their peaceful little town. Was I a-lookin' for trouble? Cos we don't take kindly to strangers here...

Well, looky here, boys. I believe what we have here is what I like to call a troublemaker. 'Member what we did to that fella from the eye are ess? I think that would work just fine with this here boy.

James D. Macdonald

03-28-2006, 01:34 AM

Getting off topic, guys....

A fella walks into a bar way back in the hills and orders a white wine. The other guys in the bar kinda look at him.

"You're not from around here, are ya," the bartender says.

"Nope."

The other guys in the bar stand up.

"Where ya from, stranger?"

"Pennsylvania."

The other guys in the bar start to gather 'round behind the fella.

"Whatcha do up there in Pennsylvania?"

"I'm a taxidermist."

The other guys in the bar start to finger their guns and knives and brass knuckles.

"A taxidermist?" says the bartender. "What the hell's that?"

"It means I mount dead animals."

"Back off, boys," the bartender says. "He's one of us."

============

And this subthread will soon join the other taxidermists in Overflow.

Lady of Prose

03-28-2006, 02:17 AM

Not to mention your self-respect and your reputation as an author. Mailing lists, usenet, and message boards are fraught with the burnt corpses of failed author promotional efforts. (A little purple, but I felt like purple prose today.)

This can backlash, as you can see in this article (http://www.writing-world.com/romance/promote.shtml) (scroll to "When Good Authors Do Bad Things")

I still have my self-respect. I used non-abrasive and non-spam type promotions. My point was that it did no good in the end, due to association with PA. I think had my efforts been clearly done as a self-published author, I might have had better results, but not much. The real disappointment lies in the fact that I cannot call myself a published author. Nevertheless, I am a writer--forging ahead.

PA will pay for the misery they have caused -- snarky emails, refusal to release rights, etc.. There are many arbitrations being planned. Mediation will be easy with the evidential material some of us have.

SC Harrison

03-28-2006, 02:23 AM

Off topic or not, that's classic, UJ.

Actually, you could tie it into a PA analogy by equating the taxidermy occupation with that of a content editor (taking stuff out, putting stuff in, fluffing it up, etc.), and the good ole boys who don't have a clue what it is are the people at PA who are supposed to prepare the manuscripts for release, and the white wine represents...the reading public, who...crap. I lost my train of thought.

book_maven

03-28-2006, 02:24 AM

Eeeeeeewww, Jim!

<responding in advance to his joke that will shortly arrive here from NEPAT>

AnneMarble

03-28-2006, 02:28 AM

I still have my self-respect. I used non-abrasive and non-spam type promotions.
:Hail: Mailing lists could use more writers like you. That was a general "you," not a "you you." :D (Besides, I love having an excuse to use that bowing smiley. ;) ) Damn shame that the effort (and money) went to waste. :(

As far as promotional efforts go, there are some writers who, like PA, claim that "Any publicity is good publicity." No, it's not. If that were true, everybody would be driving a Pinto or a Corvair.

Also, I think certain writers try to be innovative, but forget that "innovative" doesn't mean that you have to come across as the writing world equivalent of the weird Burger King ads or the singing rat (or whatever it was) in those Quiznos commercials. There are writers who got my bucks because they came across as class acts on mailing lists -- although I also bought their books because they were the kind I might read anyway.

veinglory

03-28-2006, 02:31 AM

-- although I also bought their books because they were the kind I might read anyway.

It has always seemed to me that promo is about telling people (who actually already want to buy your book) that it exists.

CaoPaux

03-28-2006, 02:50 AM

It has always seemed to me that promo is about telling people (who actually already want to buy your book) that it exists.Indeed. There's a few kinds of promotion: the most effective is alerting folks already interested in X that there's new X available. Then there's getting folks interested in Y to look at X, too. And finally: convincing people who've never heard of X that they can't live without it.
:e2hammer:

SC Harrison

03-28-2006, 02:56 AM

It has always seemed to me that promo is about telling people (who actually already want to buy your book) that it exists.

One of my goals when my PA book first came out was to generate exposure locally, counting on the misguided belief that people would be interested in reading/purchasing a book by a local author, from some sense of "hometown pride" I guess.

I never did any booksignings—I had kind of a Catch-22 thing going on. The Borders manager told me as soon as the newspaper did a review, he would set up a signing and buy a few books to cover it. I soon found out getting a review in the paper for a POD book is next to impossible, so that didn't work.

A few other stores agreed to schedule a signing, if I provided the books to sell on consignment, which I refused to do. Besides, I had always envisioned a booksigning as a way for people who already had my book to meet me, with some other folks looking on with interest, and maybe buying a book on the spot. Not just sitting there with nobody knowing who I was.

Lady of Prose

03-28-2006, 03:01 AM

Exactly... all my promotions were geared toward the readers of my genre. I have to be fair and say I did get some positive feedback. But, of course, even that was lost in the overall scheme of things.

Anne, I like that smiley too!

:D

veinglory

03-28-2006, 03:07 AM

endless rewrite

03-28-2006, 11:22 AM

A. Awesome Opportunity for Aspiring Writers.
B. Best Innovation in Publishing.
C. Classy Books.
D. Dynamic Writers.
E. Expanding Horizons.
F. Financially Rewarding.
G. Gorgeous Covers.
H. Harmonious Forums.
I. Internet Bookstores.
J. Jubilating Experience.
K. Knocking Opportunity.
L. Laudatory Achievement in Publishing.
M. Merchandising Awareness.
N. Net Working.
O. Over-the-top Publisher.
P. Page-Turning Books.
Q. Quality Workmanship.
R. Reliability.
S. Sea to Shining Sea Marketing.
T. Terrific Writing Opportunity.
U. Utopian.
V. Veridical Writing Venue.
W. Web-Site Savvy.
X. Xanadu for Authors.
Y. Yeoman Services to Writers.
Z. Zealous in the Pursuit of Excellence.

White Raven's latest suck up extravaganza. How about a more realistic alternative? I would start this off, but after reading this I am feeling a little Q for queasy.

endless rewrite

03-28-2006, 11:25 AM

The title is 'the ABCs of Publish America'

Dawno

03-28-2006, 11:33 AM

What does he get out of doing stuff like that? My mind is boggling.

And winning too. I keep rolling too many consonants....

Christine N.

03-28-2006, 03:31 PM

He makes himself feel better about his choice, Dawno. Carl's been at PA long enough to know the score - he chooses to ignore it. He's no longer a honeymooning cheerleader, now he's just in De Nile.

(disclaimer: I have nothing against PA authors - there are those who are new and uneducated about the publishing business and fall into PA's clutches. Carl has just been around a while. Nothing against him either.)

PVish

03-28-2006, 04:28 PM

The translation of a few of the ABCs:

E. Expanding Horizons.
. . . and they'll always remain in the distance.

F. Financially Rewarding.
. . . but only for PA--not the authors.

H. Harmonious Forums.
Well, yeah--when all the naysayers and question askers are banned.

I. Internet Bookstores.
And they might help if anyone actually knew about your books.

K. Knocking Opportunity.
PA knocks its authors at every opportunity.

M. Merchandising Awareness.
PA is aware that the best way to merchandise is to sell to their authors.

O. Over-the-top Publisher.
A lot of what PA does or says is way over the top.

P. Page-Turning Books.
Books generally have pages that turn. Does PA offer the option on non-turning pages? If so, will it bring down the price?

S. Sea to Shining Sea Marketing.
But the authors have to do it, and it still won't help get books in bookstores.

aruna

03-28-2006, 05:24 PM

Someone is asking pretty specifoc (and methinks sceptical) questions on the Fredericknews thread. Perhaps someone would be interested in answering them.
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=1625&STARTPAGE=5&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

saraht

03-28-2006, 07:21 PM

Nancy, you crack me up!

DeePower

03-28-2006, 08:30 PM

answer the questions, not do the thingy with the carrot.

Dee

Gabriele

03-28-2006, 11:00 PM

It has always seemed to me that promo is about telling people (who actually already want to buy your book) that it exists.

It can also mean addressing a specifc group that might not know about your book but could be interested in it. In a non-spamming way.

I could imagine attending reenactment events - after asking the people in charge - maybe holding a speech about an aspect of Roman history and then add that I've written a novel with a Romen Empire setting. I know from Roman discussion forums that people read that sort of books. I'd also ask the admin those forums if I can place a little note about my book or link it in my sig.

Polite and moderate works most of the time. :)

Spamming like ten boards on AW with excerpts from your future bestseller will only give you some unasked for crits. :D

Christine N.

03-28-2006, 11:29 PM

I hop around on a couple of YA book boards. I intro myself, and my book, and include my website link in my posts, but after that I participate in the board and not just ram my book down their throats.

It's all about being friendly and genuine, and not a used car salesman.

Gabriele

03-28-2006, 11:33 PM

Yep, active participation in forums is another point. I won't post about my - hopefully to come - novels and then never return to a place.

Another good online way is to have a blog and link to your books in the sidebar. If your blog is interesting, people will keep reading it and eventually check out your books. I've bought more than one because of authors' blogs.

Sheryl Nantus

03-28-2006, 11:49 PM

exactly - that's why a lot of PA authors are shocked when they take the advice of their fellow authors and race out there, spamming this and other boards and wondering why the reaction is rather negative.

stay, talk for a bit... tell them about your book but be honestly interested in the board and don't push your book with every single post.

but then, I'm Canadian. Too darned polite by half, I've been told.

:D

mdin

03-29-2006, 12:03 AM

Christine N.

03-29-2006, 12:05 AM

I'm impressed you spelled chutzpah correctly :)

LloydBrown

03-29-2006, 12:09 AM

I'm impressed you spelled chutzpah correctly :)

Chutzpah and Moxie are stats in a roleplaying game called Toon, in which you play cartoon characters. You gotta love a game like that.

Duncan J Macdonald

03-29-2006, 12:12 AM

Chutzpah and Moxie are stats in a roleplaying game called Toon, in which you play cartoon characters. You gotta love a game like that.Ah, but are Chutzpah and Moxie characters in the game?

mdin

03-29-2006, 12:16 AM

I'm impressed you spelled chutzpah correctly :)

My dad is Jewish, so I get a +2 modifier on the spelling of Yiddish terms.

Nexusman

03-29-2006, 12:19 AM

Blue wizard needs food badly!

-Nick

SC Harrison

03-29-2006, 05:59 AM

The ...chutzpah of some authors never ceases to amaze me. It's not limited to the PA boards, but there really is a high concentration there. It's like a used car lot with no customers and hundreds of dealers, all walking in circles trying to sell each other cars.

I know it seems futile, misdirected and poorly thought-out...okay, it is all those things and more, but, in the mind of somebody who is trying to be heard over tens of thousands of other voices, any kind of behavior is worth a try.

In retrospect, many of the promotional efforts I engaged in were destined to yield little or no sales or recognition. Many of the ideas I contemplated but rejected were (and still are) tried by others, with much the same outcome. Unfortunately, due to the suppressive and subjective nature of the PAMB watchdogs, failed efforts are quickly censored, leaving the remaining authors without information that would help them avoid similar mistakes.

Yet, there are those few experienced authors who still post on the PAMB who know all of these tricks that don't work. Instead of giving constructive guidance to the new folks, these veterans choose to either merely socialize, or they wave the corporate flag, neither of which is truly helpful to a beginner. They know who they are, and they know what they should do. They will also probably read this, and I hope they take a few minutes to think about things.

Aconite

03-29-2006, 06:03 AM

Spamming like ten boards on AW with excerpts from your future bestseller will only give you some unasked for crits. :DAnd the wrong kind of Google hits.

Gratian Gasparri

03-29-2006, 08:50 AM

Is this what you had in mind Endless Rewrite?

A. Atlanta Nights
B. Buck Royalty Cheques
C. Contracted for Seven Years
D. Dollar Advances
E. Edited by SpellChecker
F. Free Convention Buffet!
G. Gags Criticism on PAMB
H. HB Marcus
I. Insulting Emails
J. Jennaphobic
K. Kevin's Purple Poney
L. "Lenient Acceptance Threshhold"
M. Marketed to Friends and Family
N. No Return Policy
O. Outrageous Cover Prices
P. Printed-on-Demand
Q. Questionable Reputation
R. "Resonates" With Miranda
S. Short Discount
T. Trade Advertising Negligible
U. Unstocked in Most Brick-and-Mortar Bookstores
V. Vanity Publishing
W. Washington Post Expose
X. X-tremely Dissatisfied Authors
Y. Yanked From Amazon
Z. Zero Recognition In The Industry

spike

03-29-2006, 02:49 PM

I am surprised that B&N ordered your book unless they ordered directly from PublishAmerica. Ingrams only offers a 5% discount on our books and if the bookstore returns the book there is a 10% restocking fee that is charged to them. This makes our books uneconomical for a bookstore to handle. Now, if they order from PA they will get the 40% discount but the way I understand it, the books would not be returnable if purchased from PA.

This is from the PAMB. Author is freely admitting that the return policy if flawed, but it is just accepted at a fact of business.

spike

03-29-2006, 02:56 PM

Quite often if you purchase your books and have a booksigning at a bookstore they general want a split of the sales from your book. Quite often they want a 60 40 split with you getting the 40%. The problem with that is if you make a few dollars on each book and have to purchase your own books for the book signing then you are out the expnese thus your overall profit will be in the negative figure and I dont think you want that.

Now if the bookstore orders your books (which is preferable) then you will receive a royalty on the books they purchased http://bb.publishamerica.com/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
There is a problem with that however. My first book sold retails for $17.95. Let say that a bookstore only ordered five of your books and they recieved a 40% discount. That would mean that they paid $10.77 per book times the five books would equal $53.85.

Your royalty is paid off of the selling price of the book which is the price the bookstore purchases them for. if You take 8% of the $53.85 you come up with a whopping $4.31. Now do you want to spend all that time and money for so little?

I assure you the bookstore would sell your book for full retail and make $89.75 (17.95 x 5) for a profit to the bookstore of $35.90 so who comes out ahead on the deal? The bookstore does, not you.

Purchase your own books, put the profit in your own pocket where it belongs.

Am I reading this right? Does this poster contradict himself and basically say you can't win with PA?

SC Harrison

03-29-2006, 04:45 PM

Am I reading this right? Does this poster contradict himself and basically say you can't win with PA?

Nah. I think it's a back-asswards way of saying "don't even mess with bookstores, because you can't make any money."

Gravity

03-29-2006, 05:25 PM

White Raven's latest suck up extravaganza. How about a more realistic alternative? I would start this off, but after reading this I am feeling a little Q for queasy.

Ladies and gents, take it from a guy's viewpoint: any man with more than Raisinettes between his legs would consider Carl's latest PA suck-up to be a bit...precious. After reading his sweet, fawning screed, I feel like taking a hot shower...and then watching some smash-mouth football.

One man's opinion, understand; feel free to ignore...

John

James D. Macdonald

03-29-2006, 05:39 PM

Purchase your own books, put the profit in your own pocket where it belongs.

Am I reading this right? Does this poster contradict himself and basically say you can't win with PA?

No, the poster is saying "Those grapes are probably sour anyway."

triceretops

03-29-2006, 05:44 PM

It's amazing how PA has funnled the system down to where direct purchases to them by the author is the only alternative they have left now. That WAS the intended marketing plan from the begining, wot? they are the only publisher I know that has a return policy that hasn't been utilized yet. Red feather stated that if book stores buy direct from PA at 40% off, those books are NOT returnable--so why even buy them? If they buy from any other online source the discount is a piddle--so why even buy?

Tri

veinglory

03-29-2006, 06:10 PM

My attitude changes rather suddenly when I realised 98% of the difference I get in sales is due to which publisher the story is with. Promotional activities then slipped down my priority list to somewhere between 'buy milk' and 'check the hydralic fuid' and well below 'write, damn you--these books don't write themselves'.

veinglory

03-29-2006, 06:13 PM

It is particulalry true in the adult genres ;) --

hello ma'am I see you are chosing to purchase the latest Regency romance--wouldn't you prefer some rather tolkeinesque gay elves doing something innovative with carrots?

By the look of the half dozen rep points this comment got there may be a market for this ridiculous elf/carrot story. Are you guys trying to contribute to the further delinquency of a pornographer?

Sheryl Nantus

03-29-2006, 06:22 PM

I'm more of a tomato person, myself.

*snerks*

:D

Nexusman

03-29-2006, 06:35 PM

I'm more of a tomato person, myself.

*snerks*

:D

Really, I didn't need to know that.

-Nick

Dawno

03-29-2006, 06:59 PM

Kiwi fruit are fun. They're fuzzy.

veinglory

03-29-2006, 07:03 PM

Kiwi fruit are fun. They're fuzzy.

I *am* a Kiwifruit.

spike

03-29-2006, 07:22 PM

Nah. I think it's a back-asswards way of saying "don't even mess with bookstores, because you can't make any money."

Oh I see. Of course. Why would an author even think of selling books in bookstores! What a silly idea.

J.Beth

03-29-2006, 09:08 PM

Despite my efforts in the PA board to give realistic responses to what people who are worried, and trying to figure out what to do for their book sales, I can't get anywhere when PA deletes every other posting~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I even posted a post about being deleted from posts and they deleted that post~!!! I swear, they are such a bunch of crunch brains it drives me mad..and what is worse is there are some really talented writers in the PA forums, that don't see how much better they could be doing if they just had a REAL publisher. THE NEW CRAZE IN THE PA FORUMS IS ADDING MYSPACE.COM TO THEIR LIST OF WAYS TO PROMOTE. I gave a long response, we will see if it was deleted. If it is there, you can read it, I am the one who is the post of reason...I posted twice. I received and email stating that a this particular woman was dropped from PA for not promoting her book...she had bought her own to sell, and they dropped her contract...now I was thinking, (this email sounded like one of the posts in here) maybe they don't drop us for not promoting, but that they drop us for talking about them the way we believe is true...after reality hits....I would be curious if that is just an excuse.
J.Beth

Gabriele

03-29-2006, 09:53 PM

By the look of the half dozen rep points this comment got there may be a market for this ridiculous elf/carrot story.

Ever read any fanfiction? Carrots are only the beginning. :eek:

James D. Macdonald

03-29-2006, 10:07 PM

Fanfiction? Elves? Carrots?

Here ya go, sport:

http://www.ealasaid.com/misc/vsd/merry.html

veinglory

03-29-2006, 10:35 PM

Um, is the word I'm looking for 'thanks'? Let us assume so. ;)

I will go back to my continuing story about a horny librarian, a ghost and a magical mitten.

spike

03-29-2006, 10:50 PM

Fanfiction? Elves? Carrots?

Here ya go, sport:

http://www.ealasaid.com/misc/vsd/merry.html

Oh my!

Christine N.

03-29-2006, 11:48 PM

Wow.

CaoPaux

03-29-2006, 11:59 PM

:roll:

Sheryl Nantus

03-30-2006, 12:08 AM

now THAT'S Fanfiction!

:D

Nexusman

03-30-2006, 12:09 AM

I don't think I'll be able to look at Tolkien the same way again.

-Nick

DaveKuzminski

03-30-2006, 12:13 AM

Was it a magic carrot?

LloydBrown

03-30-2006, 12:50 AM

Oh my!

I love the very secret diaries. Aragorn's my favorite: "Still not king" at the end of every entry. Legolas says "Still the prettiest."

Aconite

03-30-2006, 05:44 PM

I will go back to my continuing story about a horny librarian, a ghost and a magical mitten.Hey, The Ghost and Mrs. Muir slashfic! I knew somebody had to be writing the stuff.

AnneMarble

03-30-2006, 07:19 PM

Carried over from NEPAT because my response belongs here... (*insert halo*)

And, of course, the answer will be NO - a sneering, contemptuous no, at that, although softened up in snake-speak - if they even respond at all.
OMG you're right, PublishAmerica speaks in parseltongue , just like Lord Voldemort!

This makes sense. I've started calling PA "Voldeprint" -- the printer that must not be named.

Jean Marie

03-30-2006, 07:25 PM

Carried over from NEPAT because my response belongs here... (*insert halo*)

OMG you're right, PublishAmerica speaks in parseltongue , just like Lord Voldemort!

This makes sense. I've started calling PA "Voldeprint" -- the printer that must not be named.
:2angel:

Nexusman

03-30-2006, 09:06 PM

CaoPaux

03-30-2006, 09:52 PM

This makes sense. I've started calling PA "Voldeprint" -- the printer that must not be named. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Christine N.

03-30-2006, 11:15 PM

I think I'd actually rather have Voldemort publish my book. Dark Lord Publishing! Or He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named Press!

"Yes, you've reached DL Publishing, Author Support. If you'd like a discount on books, please Cruciatus yourself. If you'd like your books to be returnable, well, obviously your Imperius curse has worn off, since you no longer think we're wonderful. A wizard will be around to rejuvenate your Imperius curse shortly.

We expect your apology. Thank you for calling Dark Lord Publishing, where we treat authors like a broken mirror - we curse them for seven years!"

badducky

03-31-2006, 02:30 AM

I just wanted to say it's really funny that the "overflow" thread has 185 pages.

Man, somebody should print it up and send it all to the fraud people investigating this stuff.

DeePower

03-31-2006, 02:43 AM

A. Awful experience
B. Bad business model
C. Clever manipulation
D. Dirty tactics
E. Exponentially frustrating
F. Falsehoods and half truths
G. Greed
H. Horrible editing
I. Insulting responses
J. Just about anything acceptance policy
K. Killer of dreams
L. Lies, lies and more lies
M. Merchandising fiasco
N. Not in bookstores
O. Opportunity lost
P. Plagiarism in books
Q. Questions unanswered
R. Rudeness prevails
S. Sea to shining sea manipulation
T. Terrible treatment
U. Useless for writing credits
V. Virtually incomprehensible
W. Wasted Books
X. X- ing the line
Y. Yesterday’s news
Z. Zero royalties

And I didn't use a dictionary. (Carl will know what that means)

Dee

Nexusman

03-31-2006, 03:03 AM

Man, somebody should print it up and send it all to the fraud people investigating this stuff.

Not if we want to be taken seriously.

:D

-Nick

endless rewrite

03-31-2006, 03:07 AM

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/bestiary/house_elves.html

I found this information above and it seemed to come right from the Voldeprint author support section:

House-elves is not suppsoed to have fun, Harry Potter. House-elves does what they is told.' Winky the house-elf

House elves are small humanoid creatures who inhabit large houses belonging to wealthy Wizarding families. They are 'bound' to the family of the house, which means they do all manner of menial tasks for them until they die. House-elves are apparently very happy with this arrangement and consider it a matter of pride that they serve faithfully and do not betray their families.

Stands on a corner offering out socks. I shall start with you, Carl. Here... catch....

NicoleJLeBoeuf

03-31-2006, 10:46 AM

The "Great" Jeffery S. Miller has read this thread and it's time for you people to get new material. [...] I have been called arrogant....Well, after that post, I can't think why. The very soul of humility and modesty is you, guv.

I will not bow down to the guestbook slimies, that demand my attention. Those members came from here, because they constantly advertised the Water Cooler with their postings.Ackcherly, whether a "guestbook slimer" mentions this forum in its post has absolutely no bearing on where the slimer is from. Think about it. Were you physically unable to mention the Water Cooler until the moment you registered? Of course not.

The system going is, the mods here invite anyone whose guestbook has been slimed to privately message them (the mods) with their (the slimers') IP addresses. If there is a match between the IP address of the slimer and the IP address of an AW Water Cooler member, that member gets banned. No exceptions, no favoritism. It's been done. Do a search in the Old NEPAT and you'll find examples.

Seriously, if you have a guestbook, and it's been slimed, send the slimer's IP address on in to anyone with a "mod squad" or "moderator" designation. They'll check up. IP addresses are much better proof of origination than any particular code phrase in the slimer's message.

Go make me some money and buy my book.Hon, even if I did, there's no guarantee PA would send you the royalties. PA has a documented reputation for stiffing its victims^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hauthors.

Edited To Add: Hey, I once had a coworker by your name. We did web design for a community college in southern Oregon. Any relation?

Alien Enigma

03-31-2006, 10:55 AM

I have no relatives in Oregon that I know of. I could have some, but I don't know of any.

NicoleJLeBoeuf

03-31-2006, 11:53 AM

Ah, snap. It was worth a try.

Now, about those IPs...

janetbellinger

03-31-2006, 12:27 PM

Jeffrey,
Your post will not be deleted. Go look up some of my old posts, before I got my first royalty cheque ($0.00, in case you're wondering,) and had my eyes opened. They were arrogant and totally irrational. I do happen to believe in PA authors. I just don't believe in PA anymore. Hey, it's good to see I'm not the only one up at 4 a.am.

janetbellinger

03-31-2006, 12:54 PM

Jeffrey, I do wish you the best. I really hope that your book becomes a bestseller. But I don't think it's right to expect other authors to be your customers. I mean, it's like trying to adopt out your baby to a woman who just had triplets. Not really fair, in my mind. But once again, best of luck to you and your book.

janetbellinger

03-31-2006, 01:49 PM

Jeffrey, I do apologize if I have offended you. I do wish you well.

Janet

MacAllister

03-31-2006, 01:52 PM

Nicole LeBoeuf said:The system going is, the mods here invite anyone whose guestbook has been slimed to privately message them (the mods) with their (the slimers') IP addresses. If there is a match between the IP address of the slimer and the IP address of an AW Water Cooler member, that member gets banned. No exceptions, no favoritism. It's been done. Do a search in the Old NEPAT and you'll find examples.

Seriously, if you have a guestbook, and it's been slimed, send the slimer's IP address on in to anyone with a "mod squad" or "moderator" designation. They'll check up. IP addresses are much better proof of origination than any particular code phrase in the slimer's message.

I'm a mod. I'll vouch for this. If you've been Amazon slammed or guestbook slimed, please feel free to contact me either on this board, or you're welcome to email me--macallisterstone AT yahoo.com.

Aconite

03-31-2006, 03:21 PM

I will be interested in seeing the reaction to the "Enigma." Will my words be deleted and possibly face bannishment, simply because I do not fit into this cynical board? AW speaks of tolerance, we'll see how the masses react to Jeffery S. Miller's postings. Not everyone will like what I write, for I do not write for everyone. I will not go into that with great detail, because there is no need to. Jeffery, you might want to spend some time reading the material in the PA threads--and elsewhere on this board--before you make assumptions about how AW works. You're flinging accusations at the people here without any idea of what's actually been going on. How would you like to be accused of doing rotten things you didn't do by someone who doesn't understand the true situation at all?

Christine N.

03-31-2006, 03:52 PM

Drive-by or no? It will be interesting to see if he sticks around for reasonable debate or just runs away like the rest. I'm not trying to provoke him, just wondering out loud.

A few questions for Jeffey:

How many books have you sold? Divide that - how many have you personally sold to people face to face, vs how many were sold to people you didn't know or meet?

Why does PA "fit in with your plans perfectly?" I'm interested to know what that means. Really.

How many bookstores were you able to get to carry your book - and by that I mean order it and stock it, not on consignment.

How many books have you bought? Now, if you have a speaking thing/book selling thing going on , well, that's different. I mean how many have you bought to hawk to people on the street/ store in your basement.

Honest questions - just want honest answers. It's always interesting to hear other points of view, as long as we can engage in a conversation and not a mud-throwing contest.

Unlike PA, Jefferey, your posts will not be deleted (unless they break Jenna's first rule of 'respect your fellow authors') - they may be moved if off-topic, but not deleted. And you will not be banned, unless, again, you violate the rules of this board. Which compared to PA's are downright indulgent.

No, sorry, I won't buy your book. With no knowledge of what it's about, it may not appeal to me. I know it wasn't edited, except with spellcheck, and I don't want to pay PA's overinflated prices, nor do I wish to line the criminals pockets.

You go buy my book, if it suits you.

James D. Macdonald

03-31-2006, 03:55 PM

I'm delighted that PA is working out for you, Jeffery.

What exactly are your goals?

Merricat

03-31-2006, 05:13 PM

I have been vocal about this forum on the WOW messageboard. I still state that if you repost someone's words give them credit for their thoughts. I proclaim that anytime that I am reposted, I am to be given the credit.

I'm not a frequent member of this board (because I don't have enough time for writing as is) but as I understood it, posts from the PAMB are reposted only when they exhibit some aspect of how PA is a scam, or how it's different from a commercial publisher.

Since those posts sometimes show ignorance on the part of the writer, the names are left off to spare that person embarrassment. The prevailing philosophy here is to help writers, not make them feel bad about having said or done something stupid.

I may or may not continue to post here. If I do, it will be at my whim. I will not bow down to the guestbook slimies, that demand my attention. Those members came from here, because they constantly advertised the Water Cooler with their postings.

Some people have suggested in the past that people working for or sympathetic to PA are responsible both for the guestbook slimings and for linking it to AW. There's no way of knowing for sure unless we can trace or match IP addresses, but it's an interesting theory, isn't it?

As for posting or not posting, that's totally up to you. I'd suggest looking at some of the other forums that AW has to offer, if you choose to stick around.

I will be interested in seeing the reaction to the "Enigma." Will my words be deleted and possibly face bannishment, simply because I do not fit into this cynical board? AW speaks of tolerance, we'll see how the masses react to Jeffery S. Miller's postings. Not everyone will like what I write, for I do not write for everyone. I will not go into that with great detail, because there is no need to.

I'm not sure why you're giving yourself code names like Enigma and talking about yourself in the third person ... but whatever makes you happy, dude.

Go make me some money and buy my book.

Well ... no. And that's kind of rude and pushy, don't you think?

I do hope you stick around, actually, cause I think you have a lot to learn.

Gravity

03-31-2006, 05:37 PM

"The Enigma" Jeffery S. Miller
Higgins: An American Story
www.freewebs.com/jefferysmiller (http://www.freewebs.com/jefferysmiller)

Jeff, old sock, if you're happy with PA, I for one am thrilled for you. I wasn't, mind. Granted, back in 2001, when I signed my PA contract, there was almost nothing known about them. Thus, I took all their promises at face value. My bad, and I take full responsibility for my inattention.

It was a hard lesson learned. My next three books were agented, and subsequently contracted with a mid-sized commercial house. For me, I appreciate the way they've done it. I like having my novels stocked, on the shelves, in national chain bookstores, at a fair price, with standard returnability.

But as I said, maybe that's just me. Best of luck to you.

John

xhouseboy

03-31-2006, 05:41 PM

Go make me some money and buy my book.

Post some info on all the bookstores where it can be found, and maybe someone will pop out to their local branch to have a look at it, browse the back cover, and then decide whether to buy it. That's the normal procedure when buying books.

J.Beth

03-31-2006, 05:59 PM

I LOVE it how everyone in the PA boards ganged up on me, because I disagreed with them, originally the topic was building a myspace site to promote your books, now it has turned into a high schoolars attempt into who has more friends, and that to make sure I'm not one of them....HAHAHA...it's funny~J.Beth

DeePower

03-31-2006, 06:33 PM

Ah, no. but you can buy my book, "The Making of a Bestseller," and find out how the publishing industry really works.

Dee

endless rewrite

03-31-2006, 07:03 PM

Jeffrey: http://bb.publishamerica.com/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif http://bb.publishamerica.com/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Congratulations on your second book. BTW read your post on THAT other forum. Of course you've incited the usual feeding frenzy. Voices of reason are not acceptable over there and must be drowned. If you are too reasonable, you get moved to a thread where the sun don't shine.

Carl, Carl Carl...sighs, you seem to be a little confused. The sun shines on all AW threads, voices of reason are welcome and cherished and despite that, Jeffrey is still here, loud and proud. Perhaps you need to return back to basics starting with your ABCs. (BTW I know you loved the alternative versions, I know I did) xxx

PS Lies make baby Jesus cry.

General Joy

03-31-2006, 07:29 PM

[QUOTE=endless rewrite]Carl, Carl Carl...sighs, you seem to be a little confused. The sun shines on all AW threads, voices of reason are welcome and cherished and despite that, Jeffrey is still here, loud and proud. snip QUOTE]

He wants to talk about threads disappearing from HERE, on AW??! Ha! If you compile all the threads that have been moved to "where the sun don't shine" from the PAMB, you'd have a nice hefty book (ooh, and maybe one you could submit to PA?)

MadScientistMatt

03-31-2006, 07:40 PM

The "Great" Jeffery S. Miller has read this thread and it's time for you people to get new material. I'm perfectly happy with Publish America. You can call me an oddball if you wish, but I'm happy. It fits into my plans perfectly.

Welcome to Absolute Write. May I ask what your plans are, and how PublishAmerica fits them?

I will refrain from calling you an oddball unless your plan is to sell several thousand copies of your book to the general public and make money at it.

What is a reality for one may not be a truth for another. I can clearly see this with each post here.

I hope you are not posting from an alternative universe where PublishAmerica books can be found on the shelves of every bookstore, where the top book from PA has outsold Harry Potter, the Author Support Team has never sent an email claiming "Do not take that tone with us. Your message is barely coherrant," and PA's business model is markedly different. Because if you do not inhabbit the same world that I do, or reality and facts change willy-nilly depending on who you are, we can have no meaningful dialog. It would be like two engineers trying to design a steam engine in different mirror universes where the laws of thermodynamics differ.

I refuse to have a debate without objective reality. I got into a debate with a total relativist once and he cheated by disbelieving in me. While I was trying to come up with a rebuttal, I suddenly ceased to exist. The experience was rather painful, and I haven't been allowed back in that reality again.

On the other hand, if you are willing to concede that we occupy the same reality and merely have different perceptions about it and different beliefs about what the nature of this reality is, I hope you'll stick around and we can discuss those different beliefs.

I have been vocal about this forum on the WOW messageboard. I still state that if you repost someone's words give them credit for their thoughts. I proclaim that anytime that I am reposted, I am to be given the credit.

I haven't been doing this myself, but copying posts can lead to quite a dilemma. Many people have found that posts by PA authors are useful for illustrating PA's business model and contrasting it with that of commercial publishers. Unfortunately, naming the writer can get you accused of mocking someone and singling out an author to pick on, while leaving them anonymous can invite accusations such as yours. Do you, and other authors on the PA message board, hold a consistant position on this?

I have been called arrogant, disillusioned, and rude by certain members of this forum. Some even state that I have an inflated ego. I may have that, but I back up everything that I state or do. How do you expect to win people to your side by trying to start fights. I am here to balance this thing out.

I certainly hope that you will stick around and share your perspective. I may be arguing with you right now, but my curiousity about how PA fits your goals is genuine.

I may or may not continue to post here. If I do, it will be at my whim. I will not bow down to the guestbook slimies, that demand my attention. Those members came from here, because they constantly advertised the Water Cooler with their postings.

And I recieved dozens of emails from people claiming to be Suha Arafat, widow of Yassar Arafat. Most of them were claiming that they needed help of a foreign businessman to move a couple million bucks out of Israel. You don't think they were really from the Arafat family, do you?

As a matter of fact, we have a standing policy that any guestbook slimer found posting at AW will be banned. You may see an example of this in action at this post. (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=430141&highlight=Vipersmile#post430141) If you have had the Slimer hit your own guestbook, please post the IP address of the slimer if available.

I will be interested in seeing the reaction to the "Enigma." Will my words be deleted and possibly face bannishment, simply because I do not fit into this cynical board? AW speaks of tolerance, we'll see how the masses react to Jeffery S. Miller's postings. Not everyone will like what I write, for I do not write for everyone. I will not go into that with great detail, because there is no need to.

Go make me some money and buy my book.

"The Enigma" Jeffery S. Miller
Higgins: An American Story
www.freewebs.com/jefferysmiller (http://www.freewebs.com/jefferysmiller [/QUOTE)

I doubt you'll be banned at all. I may disagree with you, but I'd like to see you say your part and more fully articulate why you believe PublishAmerica to be the right publisher for you.

SC Harrison

03-31-2006, 07:49 PM

The "Great" Jeffery S. Miller has read this thread and it's time for you people to get new material. I'm perfectly happy with Publish America. You can call me an oddball if you wish, but I'm happy. It fits into my plans perfectly. What is a reality for one may not be a truth for another. I can clearly see this with each post here.

Jeff, If I can give you just one piece of advice it would be this: believing in yourself is one thing, but constantly telling others how great you are is something else entirely. Saying it doesn't make it happen; as a matter of fact, greatness often goes unrecognized by the "masses", but not because they refuse to acknowledge it. It's because it sometimes takes years for people to notice how one person has helped others countless times without asking for anything in return.

That, my friend, is true greatness.

DaveKuzminski

03-31-2006, 08:01 PM

If you're truly interested in a meaningful discussion, then pull out some facts, speak plainly, answer truthfully, and, by all means, stick around. If you're only interested in going back to boast how you belled the cat, that only indicates your own breed. Take your choice.

Nexusman

03-31-2006, 08:06 PM

One who does something well should have no need to boast and one who does something poorly should not draw attention to it.

-Nick

Gratian Gasparri

03-31-2006, 08:06 PM

Go make me some money and buy my book.

"The Enigma" Jeffery S. Miller
Higgins: An American Story
www.freewebs.com/jefferysmiller (http://www.freewebs.com/jefferysmiller)

Admittedly, your book looks interesting. In fact the concept looks like something that many folks who read my monthly book review might enjoy. But as I was explaining to Janet, I am not likely to review your book.

I am even less likely to purchase it.

Nothing personal. I'm sure you're a good person who sincerely aspires to be a writer. The problem is your publisher. As I said to Janet, here is is why I would never purchase your book:

1) High cover price. (Over $20 for a 77 page book once you take the exchange rate and increased cross-border S&H costs into consideration.)

2) I peruse your book in advance because PA books are not stocked in most bookstores or libraries. So I will probably go with something I'm a little more certain about.

3) I cannot impulse purchase it for the same reason.

4) PA's poor reputation within the industry makes me unwilling to risk my money and purchase a book over the internet, even when the title and synopsis looks interesting, as is the case with your book. I would take a chance on Stephen King or a book published by a traditional publisher, however, you're unknown to me as a writer and your publisher is too well known to me as a vanity press.

5) For some reason, you strike me as very similar to another PA writer I once knew by the name of HB Marcus.

Sorry. I'm not trying to be mean, but that's how publishing works.

NicoleJLeBoeuf

03-31-2006, 08:39 PM

If you are too reasonable, you get moved to a thread where the sun don't shine.I would have Carl know that the sun shines quite brightly upon the NEPAT Overflow thread (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26568), whither posts both reasonable and not get moved if they are not sufficiently on topic here. In fact, the sun shines so very brightly over there that the day I forgot my SPF50, the forehead of me went lobster-red.

That said, Jeff's post was perfectly on topic. I doubt it will get moved. And if he wants to adopt a speaking-of-self-in-third-person self-congratulatory so-over-the-top-who-could-take-it-seriously persona, what the heck. It's not like he's about to out-arrogant Haskins or anything.

Mwahahaha.

Jeff, if you're still about, I'd love to hear your answers to some of the questions you've been asked. You're not under attack; it's just helpful to know more details when someone says they're happy with PA. Me, personally, I wouldn't send my enemy's toy poodle over to PA because PA have been documented as dishonest, thieving, copyright-breaching, and just plain cruel. But if you are happy with them, that's entirely your decicion; all we ask is that you please speak further as to what your plans are and how PA fits with them. We'd like to better understand what sorts of situations result in actual happy PA authors.

We already know many of the situations that result in unhappy PA authors, y'see.

Christine N.

03-31-2006, 09:39 PM

I think Carl needs a dictionary... perhaps he'll find the difference in the definitions of 'feeding frezny' and 'reasonable discourse'. Not one single person has attacked Jeffery in any way, shape or form, despite the rather haughty and supercilious tone of his post. (hey, look at that! SAT words - I got a million of 'em)

We enjoy debate... but ask yourself this, Jeffery -where are are the 'old' PA authors, say from more than a year ago. Other than a very, very few, less than fingers on one hand, I'd wager, are still hanging around. Why is that, if PA is so great?

Bufty

03-31-2006, 10:35 PM

Hi Jeff, old friend. Long time since we exchanged e-mails. Welcome.

DeePower

03-31-2006, 10:53 PM

Hey Jeff;

On your website you say:

A Message for the General Public: Jeffery S. Miller is now accepting requests for public appearances, such as interviews, speeches, and what not. Please email your requests. All serious inquiries will be taken into consideration. Jeffery S. Miller can be reached at jeffsarcade@yahoo.com (jeffsarcade@yahoo.com)

Consider this a formal invitation to interview you on the subject of book publishing and PublishAmerica.

First questions:

Your first book was released in August 2005. Were you aware when you signed the contract, that PA titles are not stocked in bookstores and that Barnes and Noble in particular has a corporate policy against stocking Publish America titles?

Is your book stocked by any bookstore, not on consignment, but ordered through Ingram or PublishAmerica, by the bookstore and sitting on the bookstore shelf?

Your title is listed in the Ingram database as POD with a 5% discount. What impact do you think this has on your sales?

Dee

xhouseboy

04-01-2006, 12:39 AM

Congratulations on your second book. BTW read your post on THAT other forum. Of course you've incited the usual feeding frenzy. Voices of reason are not acceptable over there and must be drowned. If you are too reasonable, you get moved to a thread where the sun don't shine.

As usual, deluding no one but himself.

James D. Macdonald

04-01-2006, 12:58 AM

Let's say that you get $0.95 in royalties for every PA book sold.

To make Federal minimum wage for your time spent promoting yout book at myspace.com, you'd have to sell between five and six books an hour for every hour you spend on it.

Any thoughts on whether anyone can manage that many sales?

Christine N.

04-01-2006, 01:55 AM

Well, to be fair, author Lauren Barnholdt, who has a YA novel coming out with Simon Pulse in June, and once in a while hangs out here, has a myspace. But her target audience is precisely the people who use myspace most.

So take from that what you will. I don't think she's going to push it like these PA authors, but she's got a specific market in mind.

James D. Macdonald

04-01-2006, 04:02 PM

Two bits of news!

First, Miranda Prather has resigned from her job as Executive Editor of PublishAmerica, in order to spend more time with her p/a/r/o/l/e/ o/f/f/i/c/e/r/ family.

Second, this "writing" thing hasn't really been working out for me. So I've decided to take a job as Executive Editor at an innovative traditional press located in Maryland. Alas, one of the terms of my employment there is that I'm not allowed to post here, so this weekend will be my last.

Christine N.

04-01-2006, 04:10 PM

Um, James? Forget something?

James D. Macdonald

04-01-2006, 04:27 PM

Um, James? Forget something?

Indeed I did!

APRIL FOOL!

aruna

04-01-2006, 04:31 PM

You had me worried for exactly one second.

janetbellinger

04-01-2006, 04:34 PM

tee hee. than'ks for the smile
Indeed I did!

APRIL FOOL!

triceretops

04-01-2006, 04:50 PM

I'm embarassed to say just how many seconds (minutes) my little ceratopsian brain took to field and process that comment by UJ. That's why he's a meat-eater and I'm still a browser. Excuse me whilst I go eat some weeds.

Tri

Sassenach

04-01-2006, 07:37 PM

I suppose that snappy answer falls under the category of 'what not.'

Bufty

04-01-2006, 07:55 PM

Hi Jeffrey,

You obviously believe Publish America is the publisher for you. In that case good luck. Some of us are curious why you've settled for publishing with an organisation that has no proven record of achieving success for its authors in terms of book sales. Maybe it just suits your particular type of story and your ambitions - but that doesn't make PA the 'opener of doors' for everyone.

Most novelists wish to have their novel made available for purchase by as many readers as possible. My main objection to Publish America is that PA cannot and do not and have never had any intention of helping authors achieve that end.

Instead, by misleading advertising that deliberately suggests they will put books in stores, PA preys upon the ill-informed and those either desperate or temporarily disillusioned/impatient with the normal submission process. Many people before you have seen possibly years of work callously tossed aside by PA - thrown on the garbage dump for 7 years or more in some cases - cases are widely documented.

And don't, Jeff, say that the Internet opens up a market of billions. Nobody knows about a book in cyberspace. Nor is marketing the key for selling a PA book, unless you can prove the contrary, of course. Add all your travelling, hotels, meals and marketing costs on to the cost of buying your books. Not to mention time - which most writers would prefer to use for writing.

Try thinking of the dreams and hopes of others, Jeff - instead of just how great and successful you are as a result of PA.

Kindest

janetbellinger

04-01-2006, 08:52 PM

Gabriele

04-01-2006, 09:03 PM

Some PA authors, I imagine, and I am not saying this is the case with you, Jeff, think that if they make negative comments about PA, it will have a negative impact on their sales. I am only worried that my posts about PA will make the very good hearted bookstore people who have agreed to carry my book, wish they had not done so. And also, I worry that tradtional publishers will see my posts and think that if I make negative comments about PA, I might do the same about them, if they should choose to publish me.

Since PA is no publisher, you don't need to worry about that. Also, publishers have more important things to do - like selling books to stores ;) - than browsing the net. Agents sometimes check blogs and websites of their clients, but not forums, and they won't think someone who warns others off a scam is going to be troublesome.

Nexusman

04-01-2006, 09:12 PM

I have good news!

My new book, "The Phone Book" will be published by PA on September 31st of this year. The plot is a little thin, but the cast of characters is simply amazing!. This is a follow-up to my last book, "Zip Code Directory", published on June 31st last year, which I'm sure all of you purchased given my latest royalty statements which easily broke into six digits to the left of the decimal, even earning out my advance of $200,000 US. Being a two-time published author, I'm sure my latest book of contemporary non-fiction will resonate with an audience because it fits PA's specialty like a glove.

It's a book about people that face a challenge in life and overcomes it. I can personally gaurantee that every person in my book, "The Phone Book," has had some sort of challenge in their life that they have overcome. Pick it up now and don't miss this sure-fire best-seller!

I love April 1st.

-Nick

Canada James

04-01-2006, 10:10 PM

Indeed I did!

APRIL FOOL!

I knew you were foolin' because I actually got that job.

Canada James

DeePower

04-01-2006, 10:30 PM

QUESTION: Your first book was released in August 2005. Were you aware when you signed the contract, that PA titles are not stocked in bookstores and that Barnes and Noble in particular has a corporate policy against stocking Publish America titles?

jeffrey's answer: When I signed with Publish America, I read my contract. I knew what I was getting into. I do know of stores that are carrying my book. I will have to go through my documentation to name them all. There are stores in Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, and random places around the West Coast and the South that are carrying my current title. You'll have to dig more into that if you want a clearer answer.

Dee's response: I am making the assumption that your contract is similar to my PA contract and the PA contract offered for my bogus manuscript "Final Days." There is nothing in the contract that specifies whether the title will be carried in bookstores or not. You wouldn't have known by reading the contract. You didn't answer the question. Now when you signed the contract did you know that PA Titles are not stocked in bookstores by PA and that Barnes and Noble in particular has a corporate policy against stocking PA titles?

QUESTION: Is your book stocked by any bookstore, not on consignment, but ordered through Ingram or PublishAmerica, by the bookstore and sitting on the bookstore shelf?

Jeffrey's answer: I do know of stores that are carrying my book. I will have to go through my documentation to name them all. There are stores in Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, and random places around the West Coast and the South that are carrying my current title. You'll have to dig more into that if you want a clearer answer.

Dee's response: Please do go through your documentation. I'm curious, PA has said on quite a few occasions that they have no way of knowing which stores in particular ordered a book if it was ordered directly from Ingram. And PA again says they have no way of knowing which store ordered a book if it was ordered directly from Lightning Source.

The royalty statements only specify how many books were sold at which price. So if the books were placed through Ingram or PublishAmerica (that's the question) how did you get so lucky that PA told you specifically which bookstores ordered the book? And how would you know whether the book was ordered to fill a special order for a customer or to be stocked on the shelf?

QUESTION: Your title is listed in the Ingram database as POD with a 5% discount. What impact do you think this has on your sales?

effrey's answer: As far as the 5% discount, that is Publish America's business. I am not a stockholder and they do not answer to me. They handle their own affairs. I do know that some stores receive a 40% discount, for this has shown up on a royalty stub.

Dee's response: The question was What impact do you think the 5% discount has on your sales, not why PA offers it, or why some stores receive a 40% and others do not. You didn't answer the question.

What to try again?

Dee

DeePower

04-02-2006, 03:29 AM

"No one here is trying to dispute Jeffrey's word..."

I am trying to dispute Jeffrey's word, as far as his misstatements about PA.

Dee

Vipersniper

04-02-2006, 04:25 AM

I was trying just to let Jeffrey know that I was deceived horribly by PA and that we are trying to shed some light on how they operate. He has fallen for that spiel I image that we all got. Or in another light is it possible that they are trying to find out the names of the authors who post here in an effort to intimidate?

I don't intimidate that easily, I wonder because I am trying to think outside the box if you will. What do you think? Is this possible? I do know this the state where I live has an agressive AG and that AG cuts his teeth on companies like PA. But for now my main quest is to send as many potential authors to this site because frankly they need someone to help them and listen to them.

Ken Schneider

04-02-2006, 04:52 AM

Trust me, it is there- snip
"The Enigma" Jeffery S. Miller
Higgins: An American Story
www.freewebs.com/jefferysmiller (http://www.freewebs.com/jefferysmiller)

Trust me partner, I was with PA, more than likely before you put pen to paper on your book.

You can spend a thousand dollars, and promote until the cows comes home, and you won't sell books unless you buy them and become a salesman via the Avon lady route. JUST WHAT PA WANTS YOU TO DO, BUY YOUR OWN BOOKS.

I your message plain and simple, I'll promote like no other. You'll hit the road blocks like all the others.

endless rewrite

04-02-2006, 12:28 PM

If the shoe fits," I always say.
And I thought I would never say this to a writer but it seems that PA and you are a match made in heaven. Long may you be happy and great.

Here is my code or is it an equation? I was always useless at maths:

sucker (x ego) + PA (x 2 author copies) = marketing - reality (x fan club -bookstores ) = 0

I don't need to buy your book to see what you are saying, though I appreciate you sharing your great new marketing ploy with us.

Lets us all know how it goes. It would be wonderful if finally, after 17000 authors you, Mr Third Person Miller, bucked the trend and made your mark.

Alien Enigma

04-02-2006, 12:32 PM

If you're only interested in going back to boast how you belled the cat, that only indicates your own breed.

I tried to handle this message privately, but you showed your breed by not replying to a genuine question. I asked what I have done to you personally, for you to show your dislike in me. You read, you didn't answer. It looks like I know your breed.

Jeffery S. Miller
Higgins: An American Story
www.freewebs.com/jefferysmiller I just added some news there, so check it out!

Alien Enigma

04-02-2006, 01:25 PM

Dee,

I answered your questions. It seems to be turning into a debate, you asked for an interview. I'll answer any new questions that you may have. Just ask away.

Jeffery S. Miller
Higgins: An American Story
www.freewebs.com/jefferysmiller

Gravity

04-02-2006, 03:14 PM

Jeff, friend, I have to go along with endless rewrite: if you're happy with PA, we're thrilled. If you say you're a great writer, we're ecstatic. If you aver your status as a sterling human being and an all-around good egg, who are we to argue? Hell, son, everyone has fantasies; sometimes they even come true.

But as far as unpacking codes and deciphering riddles about why you're happy with your choice of book printers, and what your cryptic posts mean, well, most of us have neither the time, nor the inclination to do so.

Meanwhile, it's a free country. Post away (unlike the PAMB, people on AW aren't banned, save for outright trollike behavior), and the best of luck in your future endeavors.

John

Christine N.

04-02-2006, 04:21 PM

I'd hope to see Jeffery on one of the other boards in this threas... say, novel writing. Or share your work. Something that has to do with, oh, I don't know, writing. I'm not saying he's not great, perhaps he is. Not having read any of his work, I'm not one to say one way or the other. Really, I'm not one to say one way or other anyway, everyone has their opinion of what good writing is. Around here, Jeffery, we're writers first and foremost, and writing is what we do. This thread is just a little side trip.

If he hangs around, cool. If not, cool.

I also wouldn't say that the number of posts on this thread has picked up since his arrival either... seems about the same to me.

xhouseboy

04-02-2006, 04:29 PM

You missed the codes! Please don't tell me what I think, you couldn't even read an encryptic message. I believe that Minty came the closest, but not quite there. I answered Dee's questions. You asked some questions, I gave you answers. If that one person did browse Utah's book stores, then they should look harder. Salt Lake is a big place.

"The Great" Jeffery S. Miller
www.freewebs.com/jefferysmiller (http://www.freewebs.com/jefferysmiller)

The 60's are long gone, mate. And the cryptic-speak didn't make much sense then, either.

I get the impression that I'm listening to the 'great' Withnail. You don't, by any chance, stand on hilltops and shout at the skies that you're 'going to be a f****** star?'

Get with the times, man.

janetbellinger

04-02-2006, 05:00 PM

Kenny Schneider,

You missed the codes! Please don't tell me what I think, you couldn't even read an encryptic message. I believe that Minty came the closest, but not quite there. I answered Dee's questions. You asked some questions, I gave you answers. If that one person did browse Utah's book stores, then they should look harder. Salt Lake is a big place.

Some have stated some things about the way I call myself "Great." Well, I've been called great by many greats. "If the shoe fits," I always say. I am a private person by nature. I will not disclose information just to prove that I am right to people who have no desire to purchase a copy of "Higgins." There is no need to, I know what I'm talking about. By the way, Florida real estate is booming.

You have to admit, this place has picked up after my arrival?

Thank you,

"The Great" Jeffery S. Miller
www.freewebs.com/jefferysmiller (http://www.freewebs.com/jefferysmiller)

But Jeffery,
Do you mean that the only value people have to you are as purchasers of your book? You cannot possibly succeed by taking that view. Supposing you did manage to pressure people into buying your book. What if they didn't like it or weren't impressed by it? It would only anger them, that they had been pressured into buying it. Books should be bought on the basis of free choice. To do otherwise is to make a mockery of the whole publishing process and implied freedoms. I want only people to buy my book who want to do so. I do not want other authors, or anybody else to feel they "should" buy my book. That is why I have asked PA to cancel the contract for my second book. Believe me, PAs method is not a brave new world. It smacks of jewelery parties, Avon ladies, as somebody has already mentioned, and Mary Kay. Before that, snake oil salemen. People are more sophisticated now, Jeffery, than they used to be. They resent pressure tactics and it might just make them decide not to buy your (or my) book. Even highly skilled professional marketers have found that hgh pressure tactics or manipulative ploys do not work. What makes you think that amateur PA authors can somehow outwit savvy book buyers? Bye the way, Jeffery, I have read some of the Higgins info, and it does have promise.
Regards
Janet

vicki

04-02-2006, 05:19 PM

That was a long time ago, vicki, last year some time. I'm sure they've lost interest by now. Why don't you contact them yourself? Google BBC Watchdog and the address is right there. I'm sure they'd love to hear your story, whatever it is. As would we all! You are certainly keeping your hand covered, but I have no doubt you DO have a story.
I'm not the only writer writing about the goings on among the British media. This is a quote from a novel Punters by Herbert Williams 2002:

"Gwynne glared at her. 'Nepotism!' he cried. 'It's the curse of Wales. Half the people at the BBC are up each other's arses.'"

The media who lurk here do the things they do because they want to and then they find an excuse for doing it. I absolutely loathe them -- but they know that and they are not losing any sleep over it!

These are the type of people who have their own childish way of exacting revenge. They would sooner spit in your food than send an email intended to belittle. Which would you prefer?

Bufty

04-02-2006, 05:29 PM

Jeff, you opened up to me some time ago in our private exchange. I have no intentions of revealing these here - I just reiterate that while you may be happy with your involvement with PA, thousands of other hopeful authors are not. Where do you think the oldies are?

The constant stream of newcomers have their hopes and dreams cruelly built up by PA over up to a year or more and then have them slowly strangled. That causes a lot of unnecessary pain to folks who just plain don't deserve it.

In so far as you appear to support PA and boost the hopes of others, don't you realise you are contributing to that pain and suffering.

If you are happy with your lot - be content and just slip into the background and enjoy your success. Don't encourage other people to think that PA is the great 'door-opener', when you really know they are not.

Kindest, friend,

Bufty

endless rewrite

04-02-2006, 05:36 PM

Between Enigma and Vicki, I am very confused. Could somebody please explain to me what is going on - or supposed to be going on? What is Viki's point?
What do the BBC lurkers do? Why are they spitting in food? Why are they here? I have read back through Viki's posts and am none the wiser. What has this got to do with PA?

If half the people at the BBC are up each other's arses, I presume the other half are providing the arses? It's all too much for my small brain to take in.

I have found my contacts at the BBC very nice people and I can assure you Viki, there was no arse involved.

Aconite

04-02-2006, 05:47 PM

vicki, either get on-topic or take your off-topic blathering to the NEPAT Overflow. You know where that is.

janetbellinger

04-02-2006, 05:54 PM

Vicki,
I'm not quite sure why you think that PA is such a big topic, that BBCers would
get up each others arse about it.

cwgranny

04-02-2006, 06:49 PM

You have to admit, this place has picked up after my arrival?

Thank you. You made me laugh out loud. I was just picturing everyone here, killing time for thousands of posts...just waiting for someone to liven the thread up. If this thread were much more lively, it would take over the world.

gran

Gratian Gasparri

04-02-2006, 06:54 PM

Jeff, friend, I have to go along with endless rewrite: if you're happy with PA, we're thrilled. If you say you're a great writer, we're ecstatic.

I have to agree with Gravity here. I've always understood AW's purpose on this thread as that of ensuring writers are fully informed about PA's machinations. If Jeff is fully informed about PA and still chooses them because he feels they meet his publishing needs, more power to him.

As others have pointed out, our job on this thread is to inform writers, and correct them when they post misleading information, not twist their arm.

I won't be purchasing Jeff's book as long as it is with PA because I find the cover price high and the quality of writing published by PA at best uneven. But I wish him luck.

DeePower

04-02-2006, 07:38 PM

You answered the questions you wanted to answer, not the questions I asked. Those questions are straight forward, if you choose not to answer them, fine. I have extensive experience interviewing people, 56 people in the last book.

Were you aware when you signed the contract, that PA does virtually no marketing of its titles? That PA has no catalog, no sales reps, no pr department, no press releases, - with the exception of one release to one newspaper when the contract is signed.

Did you recognize that PublishAmerica is a vanity publisher which has such a lenient acceptance policy it has accepted three manuscripts that made no sense? One had two chapters filled with gibberish, one repeated the same 30 pages over and over and one changed characters on page 50 and then repeated the same 10 pages nine times.

Do you agree with the statement that only 1% of the 190,000 new titles released in a year get stocked in bookstores? PublishAmerica has made this statement numerous times.

Do you agree with the statement that most books sold retail are not sold in bookstores? Again PublishAmerica has made this statement.

What would be your explanation of why it seems PA has refused to consider orders from retail locations of any significant amount. And please don't give me that line about how you're not a PA stockholder and the company can do whatever it wants. I'm asking your opinion.

If Random House decided to publish your first book with PA, what would you do?

Have a nice day.

Dee

DaveKuzminski

04-02-2006, 08:06 PM

Ah, Jeffrey, are you saying you're not so great if you can't recognize simple English where I stated two choices and are getting hung up on one? Is it because the second choice is what you intended and you don't like the implications? After all, the first choice was a welcome.

Oh! It's because you can't answer Dee's questions in the manner I suggested would lead to a full welcome. You already know which is your choice and don't like being pre-empted, huh?

Well, that's okay. They're having a sale at Penney's for colorful robes with plenty of neck room to get your head through. I alos understand there's a web site with awful good prices for finger cymbals. Armed with those and a stack of your books, you just might stand a chance of selling some at the airport if you can get past Homeland Security.

icerose

04-02-2006, 08:26 PM

Kenny Schneider,

You missed the codes! Please don't tell me what I think, you couldn't even read an encryptic message. I believe that Minty came the closest, but not quite there. I answered Dee's questions. You asked some questions, I gave you answers. If that one person did browse Utah's book stores, then they should look harder. Salt Lake is a big place.

Some have stated some things about the way I call myself "Great." Well, I've been called great by many greats. "If the shoe fits," I always say. I am a private person by nature. I will not disclose information just to prove that I am right to people who have no desire to purchase a copy of "Higgins." There is no need to, I know what I'm talking about. By the way, Florida real estate is booming.

You have to admit, this place has picked up after my arrival?

Thank you,

"The Great" Jeffery S. Miller
www.freewebs.com/jefferysmiller (http://www.freewebs.com/jefferysmiller)

Look, I don't have endless hours to check for your book. I contacted ten bookstores with no luck. And duh, of course I know its big, I've lived in Utah my whole life. You want to prove your book is in bookstores, startlisting them, addresses, names, the whole bit, and I will check, otherwise I don't have time. I have three writing projects that are in code red status for deadlines and several others building up. I just finished a contest, just got picked for two productions and I'm up to my neck in work.

I don't have time to decode your encrypted messages which may not even make sense once they are decrypted.

So if you are happy with Publish America list the reasons and why. Speak plainly, otherwise I cannot waste the time to deal with you.

And you won't state your case to people who aren't interested in buying your book just to prove your case?? You're the one who started this whole thing and now you are waffling out and just casting it to the wind? What do you want from us?

And you are a private person by nature, then why are you here swelling up your already overinflated ego? Don't let anyone get any sharp objects near you.

And why do they fit into your plans. If you can't reveal those things, then I feel you do not have a case and you are just another author trying to validate yourself by throwing smoke around your crooked teetering publisher.

I say yours because its no longer mine.

I'M FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Two months and counting and boy is the freedom sweet.

Canada James

04-02-2006, 09:06 PM

If that one person did browse Utah's book stores, then they should look harder. Salt Lake is a big place.

You have to admit, this place has picked up after my arrival?

No one has to search that hard to find my book in stores (thank goodness). In fact,most people find it quite by accident while browsing for other people's books. (And these are bookstores I've never been to.)

BTW, every PA author thinks they "pick up" this board when they arrive. Read this thread from its predecessor, and you'll see there's nothing unique about what you're doing.

(All of that and it's not even encrypted!)

Canada James

Canada James

04-02-2006, 09:08 PM

Dee,

I answered your questions. It seems to be turning into a debate, you asked for an interview. I'll answer any new questions that you may have. Just ask away.

You gave answers but they weren't to the questions Dee asked. Kind of like how I just answered your puzzle in my last post. Did you see it?

Canada James

SC Harrison

04-02-2006, 09:17 PM

Some have stated some things about the way I call myself "Great." Well, I've been called great by many greats. "If the shoe fits," I always say.

Apparently you didn't decipher my code either. It doesn't matter if you are or are not great, Jeffery. By making this claim, you are revealing to everybody that you are egotistical, believing that anything you do (write a book) is also great, simply because you did it.

I would like to know a little more about your book, such as: how long it took to write the first draft, methods you employed during your research, whether or not (some) characters were loosely based on real people, how many times (if any) your manuscript was rejected by mainstream publishers, etc.

I would also like to know of you are going to continue writing, or if this book was written mainly to become a product for you to sell. If you take a look around the Absolute Write forums, you will notice a preponderance of writing-related topics. You may see a few threads about promoting books, but here the actual craft of creation is the main focus. The work is far more important than the person who penned it, which is the only way to eventually achieve greatness in the literary field.

I hope this helps explain the reaction of some of the folks to your postings. I'm sure your experience in (and outside of) the ring has toughened you to criticism, but you shouldn't automatically ignore everything people say to you, as some of it can be helpful.

Sassenach

04-02-2006, 10:20 PM

Maybe Enigma was an April Fool's joke? Or am I not getting his greatness?

Sheryl Nantus

04-02-2006, 10:22 PM

Maybe Enigma was an April Fool's joke? Or am I not getting his greatness?

he's a Great Something, that's for sure...

:ROFL:

and yet, still another victim sucked in by deceptive advertising on PA's part...

BeeBomb

04-02-2006, 11:24 PM

Thank you for the warm hospitality. A special hello goes to William Minty, how are you old chap?

I'm still here. I'm not one to disclose everything that I know or do, but similar to the Morals of history there are ulterior options for those that know how to use it towards their advantage. Some speak Dogma when it comes to the publishing industry, but the key to success is innovation.

I have just given my plans in a coded paragraph to those that wonder about my happiness with Publish America. If you cannot see the forest for the trees, then you will not find the answer. Trust me, it is there. I have just answered your question.

"The Enigma" Jeffery S. Miller
Higgins: An American Story
www.freewebs.com/jefferysmiller (http://www.freewebs.com/jefferysmiller)

Uh, uh, let me try to decipher your so bold, cunning first paragraph. First off, since you are still here...it means you have come to realize what AW says is true. Towards your advantage, I would dare say it means you are using this board to have bookoos of google searches to push your book forward. After all what goes in on a message board, comes out for others to see. Sad way to sell a book but gee whiz, if it's the only way to sell...go for it. Your "Dogma" innovative way is to use anyone, anywhere to sell a book. Since you can't get in book stores from sea to shining sea, it is my thoughts...you won't admit it but you are disgusted with PA and can't get through the forest for the trees (road blocks.)

Bee

Christine N.

04-02-2006, 11:36 PM

Sigh.
Jeffery, if you think you're the first to have 'a plan' or say 'but MY book will be different'... well, you're not. You just don't see it, because all the others who have had the 'great idea' before you are gone, either banned or just finally saw PA for what it is and bailed.

We'll gladly sit back and watch you try to re-invent the wheel, but well, we've been at this for a while, and we've pretty much seen it all. (Including that guy who wanted to, what was it? sell at funeral parlors or something? It was weird AND creepy, I remember that much)

MadScientistMatt

04-02-2006, 11:56 PM

Bufty

04-03-2006, 12:06 AM

I think Jeff simply believes he's discovered what he thinks is a new way of promoting and selling his book!! Jeff - hits don't mean sales! Indeed they mean diddly squat.

Gravity

04-03-2006, 12:25 AM

If Jeff decides to return...which I rather doubt...I hope he'll speak plainly, and not code. I agree that if he's truly discovered a way of turning the tables on PA's non-marketing, a lot of us here would like to know exactly how he did it. Failing that, his egotripping will wear thin fast, and then I think lot us will simply place him on 'ignore' (which hasn't been done since the "Isabella" fiasco a few months back). And that would be a shame.

icerose

04-03-2006, 12:28 AM

I'm still here. I'm not one to disclose everything that I know or do, but similar to the Morals of history there are ulterior options for those that know how to use it towards their advantage. Some speak Dogma when it comes to the publishing industry, but the key to success is innovation.

Since I have a few minutes of a break I've decided to give you my interpretation of your encoded paragraph. If I have the wrong idea, well you shouldn't have encoded it and you are free to translate it correctly.

"I'm still here"

I need more attention, you haven't given me enough and I take pleasure in wasting everyone's time.

"I'm not one to disclose everything I know or do,"

I don't have good enough reasons or evidence to make my point, so I am going to speak vaguely so that I can think my point was made, and if you didn't get it well I can make myself believe you're all just stupid and that I'm not wrong. And thus far most of my attempts have failed so I will pretend they didn't.

"but similar to the Morals of history there are ulterior options for those that know how to use it towards their advantage."

Publish America has no Morals, as shown by their history, they have ulterior motives to those than what they claim to have and they know how to twist everything to their advantage ringing every last cent from rich and poor and sick and healthy young and old authors alike. (Like that young woman who survived cancer got screwed over at her book signing. I cry for her.)

"Some speak Dogma when it comes to the publishing industry,"

Publish America speaks many lies when it comes to the publishing industry, twisting every which way as to suit them. Including fabricating and pumping up facts and figures to fit their current sales pitch.

"but the key to success is innovation."

If I bang myself against these brick walls eventually one is going to give, right? Right? I know we will make readers out of house mice, they collect all kinds of things, if they just save up and sell it, we have a whole new market! Since the multi-million (billion?) dollar book industry has no idea what they are doing, I will dazzle them with some previously unforseen marketing ploy and they will just bow to my magnificence.

And from hence forth books will no longer be printed on paper, they will be printed on your clothes, so anywhere you want, you can read my book, and all others around you can enjoy in my fabulousness and my awesome command of the written word. It's going to work because its inovative!

Publish America has nothing original or innovative to offer. If you want innovative and new, go with e-books, I heard they are picking up sales with new readers and commands a portion of the market, due to the ease and availability. If anything they are the only ones doing something new.

Publish America - the oldest of scams in the oldest of ways. Got to admit its clever though, you create the product, you do everything for it, and they take 92% or more of the profit selling it back to you.

That's innovation for you, convincing people to not only bring their product to you, but selling it back to them at an outrageous price, abusing them, and dumping them penniless and with nothing gained the moment you no longer haver any use of them and getting a thanks to boot.

Boy I sure am on the wrong side of the playing field, oh wait I have morals.

I hope, Jeffery, you come back and clarify your stance. I tried but I think I failed to interperet your code as you intended.

Sara

P.S. I appologize in advance for my sarcastic tone, but I have heard all this before a thousand times from Publish America and various other failed venues and or scams.

xhouseboy

04-03-2006, 01:22 AM

I've cracked the code. Took a while, but I think I got it.

In essence, it's like a short story with a hidden message.

Guy drops into a pub. He needs a few drinks to wind down after a hard day.

He starts unburdening his woes to a stranger. His feet are killing him, his brain's raddled, and he hasn't made a sale all day. The new job isn't going too well. He works on a commission only basis, and during the initiation period the company drummed the hard-sell into him, and he thought he'd taken it all on board. Cold-call, push the product, never take no for an answer, print up your own business cards and sell-sell-sell. And every so often, check out the company boards - there's always other reps willing to pass on their experience on how to make those sales. But it's a hard gig, this selling malarkey.

So you're a sales-rep for some disreputable mob who treat their staff like ****? the stranger enquires.

No, I'm an author. But wait a minute... now that you mention it..

vicki

04-03-2006, 01:54 AM

Ken Schneider

04-03-2006, 02:06 AM

[QUOTE=Alien Enigma]Kenny Schneider,

My name is Ken, don't presume to address me otherwise, Jeffery.

If you are happy with PA, great, though no one will read your book.

HA! Can't wait.

PA stinks, from sea to shining sea.

((((Ding-Dong))))
"Ooh, is that the Avon lady," she said. Jumping up from the sofa, and running to the door, she looks through the peep hole. "Shucks, it's a book salesman."

Gabriele

04-03-2006, 02:14 AM

Writers should be able to argue their point in clear words, not in hints and cryptic games. If they don't want do that, ignore them.

What both Vicky and Enigma want is to be asked to explain their hints and codes and thus get attention. Don't give them that attention until they've learned that plain English and clearly expressed arguments (yes, even pro PA if you so want) is the best way to get heard.

Bufty

04-03-2006, 02:22 AM

Vicki, I'm sorry, but you're the first person I've put on my 'Ignore' list - as of now. Jeff, friend, you'll follow unless the doublespeak stops.

akaa1a

04-03-2006, 04:35 AM

Hmm...

I put his message through my Captain Avenger decoder ring and all I got was this...:e2tomato:

Guess to write in code you have to have something important to say.

Nexusman

04-03-2006, 04:51 AM

Guess to write in code you have to have something important to say.

Or at least want it to be important.

-Nick

Canada James

04-03-2006, 06:01 AM

I will go back to my continuing story about a horny librarian, a ghost and a magical mitten.

Incidentally, that's the title of my autobiography.:)

Canada James

Canada James

04-03-2006, 06:04 AM

THE NEW CRAZE IN THE PA FORUMS IS ADDING MYSPACE.COM TO THEIR LIST OF WAYS TO PROMOTE.

Depending on your market, the MYSPACE thing can be quite fun. I wouldn't ever want it to be the <shudder>cornerstone of my book's marketing platform</shudder>, but I've made some interesting friends on that site.

It's also a great place to host my mundane blog, which still amazes me that people read.

Canada James

Canada James

04-03-2006, 06:12 AM

Let's say that you get $0.95 in royalties for every PA book sold.

To make Federal minimum wage for your time spent promoting your book at myspace.com, you'd have to sell between five and six books an hour for every hour you spend on it.

Any thoughts on whether anyone can manage that many sales?

It'll take you less than 5 minutes to make a MYSPACE page. Sell one book and you've made Federal minimum wage. Sell 1/2 a book and you've made minimum wage in Manitoba.

Speaking as someone who was talked into making a MYSPACE page, and has even bought CDs of indie bands after being exposed to them on MYSPACE.
(Even found out about an indie Russian/Vampire movie that briefly hit local theatres. It was ... er ... interesting...)

Canada James

SC Harrison

04-03-2006, 06:45 AM

Depending on your market, the MYSPACE thing can be quite fun. I wouldn't ever want it to be the <shudder>cornerstone of my book's marketing platform</shudder>, but I've made some interesting friends on that site.

It's also a great place to host my mundane blog, which still amazes me that people read.

Canada James

I posted classified ads on several (large) cities' listings, with a blurb about my book and a web addy. Since I don't track hits on my website, I have no idea how many people made the jump, but my ads received several hundred looks before they were buried under new ones.

I estimate that all that activity generated a couple of sales.

Alien Enigma

04-03-2006, 10:35 AM

I don't care if you people ignore me or not. That's your loss. It appears that I have made some statements that you cannot respond to, so you choose to block what you don't understand. I made the mistake of labeling some people as "decent." Due to correspondence with a few of them, I find that I mislabled some people.

Remember when you were children, and you didn't like what you heard? You covered your ears. If you don't want something to be true, do you pretend that it doesn't exists? By placing me on ignore, it screams that I have credibility. I will still be read by the guests who enter this board.

It is apparant that some cannot take a "ribbing." I will say that those that reject my writings and me, were not of my acceptance. It is a different story when those that mock and ridicule are subject to the same treatment. I may stick around longer than I intended since I have been labled as someone with merit. Why else would people hit the ignore button on the Neverending Publish America Thread? I know, because I have spoken truths.

Do not be upset with me, because I do not disclose everything that I know. If you want to learn from me, I will truly help those that want help. I have done it in the past. I have helped many people become published. I give advice to aspiring writers all the time. I will not stop helping those that truly want to learn. I will not disclose information here, because many here will not understand it. They just want the latest "scoop" on what a Publish America Author is doing. Feel free to contact me privately through my website, I will be happy to mentor to those that seek my assistance.

To the people who search this website. If you want to publish with Publish America then do it. Everyone's plans are different. Do not be talked out of something that you want to pursue, just because a few that label themselves as mock "elitists" don't want you to do it.

Jeffery S. Miller
Higgins: An American Story
www.freewebs.com/jefferysmiller

James D. Macdonald

04-03-2006, 10:45 AM

So, Jeffery, what are your goals and objectives for your book?

If you can't state them, you'll never know if you've achieved them.

Tell me, Jeffery, how many copies of your own book did you purchase, at what dollar cost? How much did you pay to publish?

I'd suggest that anyone who wants their book read by anyone they don't already know by name should steer well clear of PublishAmerica.

James D. Macdonald

04-03-2006, 11:56 AM

I do not talk about finances. I never have and never will. I find it to be prying into the affairs of others, therefore I do not do it. Throw stones, if you'd like.

That's okay. You don't have to answer. It's enough that you realize that you paid to publish.

There is a whole other market that people seem to not know about. Ever hear of Albert Pike? I highly doubt anyone has, unless you are privy to that information before doing an online search.

Oh, baloney. I use esoteric matters in my fiction; my most recent book was set during the American Civil War and involves arcane arts. Albert Pike isn't even particularly obscure. Anyone who's heard of Wilson's Creek has heard of Pea Ridge, and anyone who's heard of Pea Ridge has heard of Albert Pike.

How is your market (and how are you, as author) better served by going through PA than through Lulu or Cafepress? Or through your local printshop?

As to the rest: to quote from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid: "You just keep thinking, Butch. That's what you're good at."

Alien Enigma

04-03-2006, 12:02 PM

Oh, baloney.

James,

Looks like you scored one more response on the matter. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. I do not care to discuss it anymore, because you people just aren't getting it. It's like talking to my dog, but my dog actually likes me. :)

James D. Macdonald

04-03-2006, 12:08 PM

You obviously don't know what you're talking about.

"Ay, think so still, 'til experience change thy mind."

aruna

04-03-2006, 01:09 PM

I have helped many people become published.

With whom? Publishamerica????? :ROFL:

(from your website)
The title is available at every bookstore in the World. If it is not stocked they can get it for you. All you need is the ISBN number which is 1-4137-8752-5, title, and my name.

I am going to see if your book is available in my local bookstore in Eastbourne, England, or if not, it they can order it. I'll let you know the result.
(I'm not gouing to buy, it though!)

endless rewrite

04-03-2006, 01:30 PM

I do not answer questions but only ask them. Who needs questions when I am the answer? Throw your stones, my glass house is sturdy and if you do not seek then do not come looking. I know I am great. I fear you not, though I have only gallstones.

Those that speak DOGMATIC will never know the truth of Johnny Red Herring. Maybe you have not heard of him, that is because he is well known, maybe not. Look and you may find, look not and you may not, look sideways and you will not see ahead. I use him as a means to get me more hits. Some say that I have not been hit enough but I will not stop until you know me as great as I am, so say others, many of them greats or at least very large. (hi mom)

Many of you will have heard of me from my days on the ULFC. I was well known on the underground leap frogging circuit. On many times I put on my swimsuit back to front and competed in tournaments watched across many villages. Maybe you have heard the LATEST NEWS about my then bodyguard, Special Needs Sammy? If not, it is all to be known on my website and by those who will know through my ‘as good as Dan Brown’ novel - ‘Mrs Miggins – a Meat Slice Too Far’ (price $32.50, available online and at unknown bookstores, maybe). Tune in for a taste.

Then I became a BIG NOISE with my invention that the government REFUSED to buy. When you consider this is a time of mass terrorism, who will know how many lives my amazing, anti exploding shoe insole with minty fresh deodouriser, could have saved? All it needed was to be placed inside every orthopaedic shoe of possible mass destruction. I say, never trust a man with a ticking club foot – you have been WARNED.

Disgusted, I took to the airwaves where I reached international fame on Outer Hebrides MW 1287.5186 on the 3.45 – 4.20am slot. I interviewed many people on my – ‘Look at me now, Mama!’ slot. Some of my favourites included the local head crofter and sheep love expert Larry Lambkins and local dignitary, Big ‘two cars’ Al. (see - 'Mrs Miggins – a Meat Slice Too Far', price $32.50, available online and in bookstores, maybe). I will be starring again soon with a one off talk special – ‘All the Pretty Girls Who Wouldn’t Date Me in High School – Look at me now!’ Treat yourself to a listen.

For those of you not blinded my elitism and mock success you can STILL find the answer. The code is hidden but you can see it in my book and I will put you, yes you, in my next book if you find the one and only UNIVERSAL theme, which is one of many. ('Mrs Miggins – a Meat Slice Too Far', price $32.50, available online and unknown bookstores, maybe) But be warned the code will only be revealed to those who buy my books and who struggle for the answer. There will be many winners but only one champion, the first will be called THE CHAMPION; the second will be called THE CHAMPION TWO and so on and so forth through my whole Mrs Miggins series. It will not be easy but do not be interfered with on your task, for many will be called and many will be found wanting (of $32.50).

Ask yourself, can you see the truth of my magical code?

If All Manipulated Answers Could Only Materialise Purposefully, Letting Endless Trolling Escalate, Truthful Objectivity Safely Submerges, Ending Rationality.

Please Note: 'Mrs Miggins A Meat Slice Too' Far is available in every book store in the WORLD! However, if you have trouble finding it in any bookstore, you can order it online.

(dearest mods, if I am going to be ported for this, be gentle with me, it’s my first time) x

endless rewrite

04-03-2006, 02:37 PM

Dear Jeffery,

I am not sure what you handed to me because it was ***** out, but thank you for the thought as well as those lovely love snippets in your private message. I am confused, what statement are you talking about? Do you know the difference between a spoof and a statement? Sometimes when faced with the ridiculous, harmful or offensive, the best tactic is humour. A point can be made without name calling or anger. If you are going to be confrontational and make outrageous statements about yourself and your work the very least you can and should expect is a light hearted response.

What is boderline Communist mentality? What is a Cyber Rambo?

Yours pansily

Endless

PS I don't use my real name because, believe it or not there are some really angry, odd people out in webland.

Adjusts swimsuit.

Alien Enigma

04-03-2006, 02:41 PM

You should do your homework and realize that some things are off limits. I don't appreciate the "Joke." I thought the wrestling was humorous, but you were way out of line with the invention words. You can try to make up for it now, but you've really rubbed me the wrong way.

Next time do your research before you mock something that YOU don't understand.

Lady of Prose

04-03-2006, 03:12 PM

BTW, every PA author thinks they "pick up" this board when they arrive. Read this thread from its predecessor, and you'll see there's nothing unique about what you're doing.
Canada James

I thought no such thing. I was only glad to find a place that understood--knew how I had been scammed, and wanted to help.

MadScientistMatt

04-03-2006, 03:43 PM

James,

Looks like you scored one more response on the matter. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. I do not care to discuss it anymore, because you people just aren't getting it. It's like talking to my dog, but my dog actually likes me. :)

Well, it appears that you are living up to the Enigma part of your name. At this point, nobody can tell what you're talking about from the cryptic references and cyphers you've posted here. You show up stating that you intend to ballance things out by stating why PublishAmerica is a good fit for you, but it appears that any casual observer of this thread trying to see you handle a debate would be unable to find any rational reason for going with PublishAmerica in your posts.

Your opponents here prefer to state facts plainly. There is absolutely nothing cryptic about claims that PA books are overpriced, their policies prevent bookstores from ordering it, or that their contract is author-unfriendly. I suggest that you try being equally clear.

MacAllister

04-03-2006, 03:53 PM

Alien Enigma said:Endless ReWrite:

I'm gonna rewrite this. I just handed your *** to you, but your probably some whiney pansy. I'll tone it down. You just made a complete *** out of yourself. Everyone knows that Endless Rewrite is an idiot who has the borderline Communist mentality, now.

Absolute Write: Is this how you allow your members to talk to new comers? Oh I forgot, this is how you all treat Publish America authors. It's very assinine and juvenile.

Endless Rewrite: I have the balls to use my real name, why don't you when you make a cowardly statement like you just did?

PS: You wouldn't have the balls to say what you said, to my face. You're just another Cyber Rambo. Just for the record, I don't like you.Actually, you've made a rather grave error is assessing how this community functions. The newcomer doesn't come in here with some sort of special, diplomatic immunity. The established members of the community who participate and comment and contribute, week after week, get far more weight attached to their words.

The community members, including the mods and admin, are far more likely to come to the defense of someone who has proven a valuable participant by making an investment of time and energy in the overall quality of this environment, by saying things that are generally both true and helpful.

On the other hand, Jeffrey, you've been asked again and again to just please, for chrissakes, spare us the 14-year-old angsty bs and secret-decoder-ring horse pucky. Your response is to insult us, become increasingly hostile and condescending.

So shoo, now. Run on back to the private message board over in PA land. Go ahead. Strut and preen and tell everyone all about bearding the lion in his den, 'kay?

The grownups have stuff to talk about.