The New Never-Ending PublishAmerica Thread (NEPAT) [Archive] - Page 4

xhouseboy

02-20-2006, 04:48 PM

Folks, you've come way to far to start letting a little slow paperwork bring you down now. First of all contact PA support and ask what you can do to help resolve this problem you're having with these particular book stores. Ask the book stores who is responsible for updating their data and what can be done to maybe speed up this process. PA books are being sold in major brick and mortar stores all over the country, there has simply got to be some way to get the stores in your area to resolve the data entry problem if that is all it is. What about puting 4 or 5 books in on consignment or make a deal to quarantee the buy back yourself if they will just give your book a chance? What about placing your books in other venues, like small gift shops, florist shops that service hospitals, and even the gift shop at the hospital. Is there a book store, newstand or a vendor at the mall, airport, or bus station you can approach to carry a few of your books on consignment until the issue with the data entry can be taken care of? Is there a reader's group at the library, seniors home, church, or local Jr. College you can address and do a reading for. If you can connect with one of these organizations and say "I'll address your group and then you can all go to B&N and buy my book and then I'll come back and talk to you again after you've read it" then the store may see that your book deserves a chance, you sell a few, and the book club has a real author to help facilitate their discussion. If making that first contact is a little intimidating ask a fan of yours to make the call for you. A wife, mother, brother or neighbor can always call and say"Hey, I've just read this great book and the author lives right here, you ought to have him or her address your group." then of course you need to be prepared to step up and run with the ball. Make sure whoever calls to get the name of the manager or events planner so you can make diect contact later. Don't ever hesitate to actively sell your book. That's what authors do, they sell books. Dress up a little when you go shopping for groceries so you feel confident. Wear a tou-tou and rollerscates if you can carry it off but also carry a couple of your books with you. when you speak in a situation like this step back a foot or tow and speak loudly, you want to be overheard. don't yell but don't be too shy to smile and include apasserby in your conversation. I guarantee if you began to talk to somebody, anybody, you'll draw a crowd and someone will know someone who knows someone. All you need is a name and then when you call, it's "Mrs, Betty in the produce department said I should call you." This idea will work I swear. W. Clements Stone made millions and millions doing this very thing selling a near worthless insurance policy. I've heard of authors here in these forums that carry a few books with them to libraries, coffee shops, and even book stores and suggest their books to patrons and they sell books that way. Get a magnetic sign for your car and always have a few copies handy. Maybe you can pick up a few small gift boxes at the dollar store to make the sale a gift ready for the purchaser to take to thier friend in the hospital, their wife at home, or just for themselves. Ask your barber or beautician if you can set a small vase of flowers and a few books on a counter and sell a few on consignment. Then find out when they're the busiest and drop by to loudly ask how many have sold and regardless of how many have, add one more and be sure and speak to everyone there before you leave. Is Wednesday the senior discount day at the grocery store in your area? Ask the check out girl when's the busiest time, then show up in that tou-tou. My Kroger store actually has a bingo game for seniors on discount days, donate a copy for the drawing in the store that day. Attend craft fairs and carry a few books in a large fabric bag that says Author Editions and carry one in your hand so as you stop and look at a pottery display you can hand it to the artist while you look and then start a conversation about your book. Those people are there all day, they need a book to read because no body's interested in a watercolor of Elvis at $395.00. And you might just draw a crowd. Civic groups are always intersted in speakers so call every Lion, Kiwanis, Elk, Moose, and royal order of Beer Drinkers and arrange a speaking engagement with plenty of books to sign.
Please, contact PA support and get those computers corrected but sell a book or two in the mean time and you'll feel so much differently. I know you're going to find a way to have your voice heard.

Phew!!!

And when you're recovering in intensive care, every major organ in your body having packed in from overuse and sheer and utter exhaustion, it might give you some time to ponder upon whether you missed a trick or two...

Arden19

02-20-2006, 05:32 PM

Sorry it took so long for me to get back.

My Paragraph 17 does state the whole promotion, etc. of the book. I let them know like a year ago when all the news articles were coming out that they may as well invoke Paragraph 24 of the contract, as no other copies would sell, and I would do nothing to promote the book. Why should I? I stupidly bought 50 copies when it frist came out, and there are still copies left. My husband and I promoted it at work, and my mother did in my home town. Other than that, I did nothing.

Then I did an interview for the Frederick News Post (under my name, Anjie Kendall). That's when I told them that I'd do nothing else for the book. So, roughly a year later, they saw that I was serious, and let me go, due to my "breech" of Par. 17. According to the letter I got, all copyrights are now mine again, and I'll get my last royalty statement when everyone else does. Yay. Another 83 cent check I won't cash.

I'm just glad to be rid of PA. My husband is happy for me as well. :)

Lady of Prose

02-20-2006, 05:37 PM

I'm just glad to be rid of PA. My husband is happy for me as well. :)

I'm so happy for you! Congratuations!

DaveKuzminski

02-20-2006, 06:34 PM

According to the letter I got, all copyrights are now mine again, and I'll get my last royalty statement when everyone else does. Yay. Another 83 cent check I won't cash.

Don't let PA have the money. It gives PA a buffer and prevents them from creating an overdraft. If you get a check, either cash it yourself, or if there's an expense involved, mail it to someone somewhere else, such as a charity, who can use the money and won't have to pay a check cashing fee. Remember, every penny that PA actually pays out moves them that much closer to out of business.

MMo

02-20-2006, 06:49 PM

According to the letter I got, all copyrights are now mine again, and I'll get my last royalty statement when everyone else does. Yay. Another 83 cent check I won't cash.

I'm sorry you went through this experience but am also happy you are now free -- however, always, always, always cash their checks. Photocopy it if you want, but cash it, because otherwise that is just MORE money they get to take from the authors.

Mo

SC Harrison

02-20-2006, 07:04 PM

The article I alluded to a few weeks ago has been published. The newspaper chose to not reveal PA's name specifically, so I almost decided to post this elsewhere, but I decided what the hey.

http://www.gotriad.com/article/articleview/17375/1/14/

p.s. Don't laugh at the picture, okay? My a$$ is not that big, it's the angle of the camera.

Berry

02-20-2006, 07:15 PM

According to the letter I got, all copyrights are now mine again

YAY!!!:hooray:

But to be pedantic, the copyrights were always yours. When one "sells" a book, what is transferred the publisher is the right to publish the book, not the copyright. At least, that's the case with real publishers.

book_maven

02-20-2006, 08:20 PM

I am posting this here--with Kevin's permission--because even though it doesn't address the subject of this thread directly, it nevertheless raises an important issue that is often brought up in this discussion, that of making one's work publishable by commercial houses. Thanks, Kevin.

Kevin Smokler (Bookmark Now: Writing in Unreaderly Times):
I spent this entire weekend at the San Francisco Writers Conference giving "Straight talk to aspiring writers" consultations. 15 minutes, costs $25, money goes to charity. I thought since I'm not a household name, I'd be half full. Every slot was booked with a 15-person waiting list.

During these sessions, I noticed a subtle but significant dividing line between the writers I had hope for (Group A) and those I didn't (Group B). Group A, whether well-published or clipless, showed a willingness to learn. They listened hard, took notes, formulated next steps, asked probing questions even when I had bad news for them. They saw developing a writing career as an incremental process with them in the drivers seat. In contrast, Group B waited for me to wave my wand. They wanted me to read their pitches and query letters and say "Yes! I'm sending it to my agent today." When I said anything less, they slumped their shoulders, argued or ignored me. They saw themselves at the same time powerless and entitled. They thought because they had written what they perceived as a good book that the rest was about waiting for the fairy godmother to show up. When I told them no, they pouted like children. Their refrain was "It shouldn't be this hard."

What I found so fascinating is that this divide has little to do with publication status. I've worked with world class writers with New York houses and powerful agents at their side who still feel like the world is conspiring to ignore their genius. And I've met writers who have never published a word who simply feel they were born to do this and are busy organizing readings at community centers, leading workshops, starting literary journals, seeking out mentors and making a place for themselves in the literary world that they can be proud off, a place from which they can grow.

To me, that's the dividing line in how we talk that I hear. Do we treat this as both a job and a calling? Do we bring to it the same degree of professionalism that a good doctor or architect or teacher brings to their career, all jobs people claim lifelong callings to? Or do we think that because we have been couragous enough to express our vulnerabilities on the page that the world is obligated to take notice? I see published and unpublished writers on both sides of the aisle.

MMo

02-20-2006, 08:27 PM

The article I alluded to a few weeks ago has been published. The newspaper chose to not reveal PA's name specifically, so I almost decided to post this elsewhere, but I decided what the hey.
http://www.gotriad.com/article/articleview/17375/1/14/
p.s. Don't laugh at the picture, okay? My a$$ is not that big, it's the angle of the camera.

That's a good article, Steve, even without the direct naming.

Mo

PVish

02-20-2006, 09:06 PM

Over at the PAMB, another author asks the questions that so many have asked before:

Hello, everyone! I've been calling and writing Barnes & Noble Stores asking them to stock a few copies of my book. I have had some success with most stores ordering at least 2 copies. But many of the stores tell me that my book is non-returnable. I assure them that it is returnable but, of course, they won't take my word for it. It is listed in their system as a non-returnable book. All of the stores I contacted go through Ingrams, so it really should not be a problem. What should I do? I'm sure many of you have faced the same obsticle. Like I said, though, many have ordered books, but there is a considerable percent that say that my book is non-returnable. I've sent a message to PA, but I've not had much success with other questions I've sent to them. The last question I sent them, their reply had nothing to do with my question. Hope someone can help me. Thanks

To this poster and other lurkers: You've done all you can. PA has stacked the deck against you. PA is unlikely to give you an honest answer to your questions. They are only interested in selling directly to you. They don't care about the bookstores.

The bookstores are right—the short discount of 5% means they'd lose money if they ordered and then tried to return your book. Hence, to them, the book is non-returnable.

NicoleJLeBoeuf

02-20-2006, 09:20 PM

The bookstores are right—the short discount of 5% means they'd lose money if they ordered and then tried to return your book. Hence, to them, the book is non-returnable.This is the point that so many of PA's authors don't understand. Heck, I wouldn't have known if you hadn't said. I don't know a lot about life at a bookstore. PA counts on their victims being similarly ignorant of bookstore accounting. That way, they can tell their authors "We've listed it as returnable! Your local bookstore is lying to you! We told them it was returnable!" and let their authors think that the bookstores are out to get them. But of course the real culprit is PA, who has knowingly set prices and discounts such that any bookstore who wants to stay in the black has to treat their "returnable" books as not returnable.

Again and again, we see this "publisher" relying on ignorance of the publishing industry and ignorance of the bookstore industry to make their lies and half-truths seem plausible. They're no different from any other predator which preys on the weak; here, the weakness that defines "prey" is lack of knowledge.

(Well, there are others, but that's the biggie without which it would all fall apart for them.)

Sheryl Nantus

02-20-2006, 09:27 PM

The bookstores are right—the short discount of 5% means they'd lose money if they ordered and then tried to return your book. Hence, to them, the book is non-returnable.

back to the basics, for the lurkers - and yes, you will NEVER see this information on the PAMB or anywhere on the PA website, so don't strain your eyes trying to find it.

and THAT should be the first sign of alarm.

all reputable publishers sell their books to the retailer (the bookstore) at usually 40% off the retail price. That allows the seller to make a profit. You've seen this already on your pittance of a royalty check, when PA pays the author 8% of the sale price - which is 40% of what it sells to the public for.

example - $12.95 = it's sold to the bookstore for $7.77 and the author gets 8% of THAT = 62 cents per book.

now PA has this farce of a return policy which says "sure, you can return it - but you're only going to get 5% discount".

example - $12.95 = sold to the bookstore for $12.33.

now let's stop right there before we get to the royalty part (just under a buck anyway)...

the bookstore counts on being able to make a profit on each book, as is their right with this free enterprise system and all - but with only SIXTY CENTS discount on a returnable PA book, it's nothing. Literally, nothing. Why? Because if the bookstore decides to return said PA book after a month or two they bite the postage - which is certainly going to be a LOT more than sixty cents per book to send it BACK to PA. Look at what PA is charging YOU to send YOUR book to YOU. Even if you buy in bulk the shipping charges are not going to balance out.

This is why bookstores balk at buying books at less than 40% discount and certainly not "returnable" at 5%. It's just not economically feasible. It doesn't matter how you do the math, bookstores are going to lose money if they start stocking PA books.

and PA KNOWS THIS.

which is why they continue to offer "special" sales to the authors and NOT to the bookstores at a reasonable rate. Their target audience is not the bookstores, it's the authors. Let YOU, the author, get suckered into paying for the shipping and then try to sell it at lower prices to try and recoup a profit, or barely break even.

meanwhile, PA marches on with full knowledge that this "return" policy is nothing but a sham and a disgrace to the publishing industry.

(note: if I've mucked up any of the math, please leap in here to correct me.)

:)

Birol

02-20-2006, 09:39 PM

The discussion regarding the PA Debate between Shelagh and Jim are being moved to Overflow (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26568). Please post any additional comments on that topic over there.

Aconite

02-20-2006, 09:44 PM

the bookstore counts on being able to make a profit on each book, as is their right with this free enterprise system and all - but with only SIXTY CENTS discount on a returnable PA book, it's nothing. Literally, nothing. Why? Because if the bookstore decides to return said PA book after a month or two they bite the postage - which is certainly going to be a LOT more than sixty cents per book to send it BACK to PA.
Note that the bookstores are losing money just by ordering a PA book--they don't have to wait until returning it to take a loss. That means even bookstores that may have formerly been willing to special order PA books for customers who paid in advance for their copies aren't likely to be willing to do that anymore.

MMo

02-20-2006, 09:47 PM

all reputable publishers sell their books to the retailer (the bookstore) at usually 40% off the retail price. That allows the seller to make a profit. You've seen this already on your pittance of a royalty check, when PA pays the author 8% of the sale price - which is 40% of what it sells to the public for.

example - $12.95 = it's sold to the bookstore for $7.77 and the author gets 8% of THAT = 62 cents per book.

I'm sorry -- All my contracts have called for royalty on the sales price [edited to clarify--this is cover price as Christine so corrrectly points out below], not the price the publisher gets, so the 8% royalty should be on $12.95, not the discounted amount, and therefore -- $1.036.

More and more I'm seeing references to royalty on "net." I strongly urge those of you who see these clauses to say no.

Mo

Christine N.

02-20-2006, 10:02 PM

Just to clarify that -

Sales price is the price the retailer paid, not the consumer. The retailer pays PA, so that's what the royalty is calculated on. Once the book is in the store, the consumer pays the bookstore, but PA's already gotten its money (despite its claims of 30 60 90 days)

Cover price is what you WANT to paid at. No matter what discount is given, you still get that 8% of the full retail value. But, since PA doesn't print the price on the cover, what 'cover price' is, is not able to be pinned down.

JennaGlatzer

02-20-2006, 10:56 PM

OK, I have the answer!

I have info on three people who recently had contracts terminated by PA, and what they have in common is...

NOTHING WHATSOEVER!

Therefore, I have figured out why PA has terminated those contracts: to drive us crazy. They, in their infinite wisdom, figured out that people at AW will lose sleep making charts and graphs and trying to figure out what connects these three people. As we become more sleep deprived, we become less productive, and we miss our writing deadlines, thus making it more likely that we lose our writing jobs and have to go back to working the graveyard shift in a vitamin factory (shush... I did that). Then we're so tired that we lose the energy to log on to AW and warn people about the evils of PA.

Well, not this time! I have foiled this plan! The answer is 86!

--
Erm, to be more scientific:
The people with canceled contracts do not have similar publication dates, they are not in the same geographic areas, they do not all belong to any particular group, they have different histories of fighting PA, and two of the three were not particularly active in the fight against PA anymore. My wee brain is spinning.

I still have a couple of theories not yet examined, this in particular: I'd like to study the cover art of all three writers to see if PA is nervous about getting sued over something.

emeraldcite

02-20-2006, 11:10 PM

I thought the answer was always 42.

[goes back to the drawing board...]

Dawno

02-20-2006, 11:21 PM

Jenna, Jenna, Jenna. And Em, too. It's really very simple. There's a dartboard. Wim closes his eyes and throws a dart. What ever book title tacked to the dartboard it hits gets released.

SeanDSchaffer

02-20-2006, 11:32 PM

A dartboard with some 17,000 titles on it?

That must be some dartboard.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/Emotepoke.gif

bloemmarc

02-20-2006, 11:32 PM

This is true, bloemmarc. However, this can be done by authors contacting the bookstore through the proper channels, not just the publisher doing so. For instance, B&N, I think it is, has a policy of sending two physical copies of a book to their corporate offices and a written request asking to stock that book, before they will decide whether or not to stock the book physically.

The reason for this, if I'm not mistaken, is to allow self-pubbed and vanity pubbed authors the ability to sell their books in several of the large chains.

But again, this is done through a written request sent to the proper channels. Most of the PA authors I've known over the years, have tried (and failed) to get this same thing done by simply going in to the stores themselves and asking.

But the point I'm making, is that the authors are responsible for getting their books into brick-and-mortar stores. PA itself does not do this for their authors.
I understand, and I really didn't look at it long enough to check if their was a copyright inside because it was a PA book. I was actually looking at the fantasy books publshed by Tor, Daw, Baen, and Roc. These are the companies I am submitting my manuscript to along with some smaller but legit publishers like Mundania Press.

SeanDSchaffer

02-20-2006, 11:37 PM

Snipped....

I was actually looking at the fantasy books publshed by Tor, Daw, Baen, and Roc. These are the companies I am submitting my manuscript to along with some smaller but legit publishers like Mundania Press.

My Emphasis.

You've got some pretty decent companies listed there. Right on. I wish you all the best with them.

bloemmarc

02-20-2006, 11:48 PM

My Emphasis.

You've got some pretty decent companies listed there. Right on. I wish you all the best with them.

Thank you. i think I have a pretty decent story, but we'll see what happens. I am very excited about the future prospects though, of what could be. I whish you all the luck as well.

ResearchGuy

02-21-2006, 12:52 AM

From the PAMB:

But many of the stores tell me that my book is non-returnable. I assure them that it is returnable but, of course, they won't take my word for it. It is listed in their system as a non-returnable book. (Emphasis added.)
The poster's belief is so strong that the facts cannot be accepted as true. Underlying that belief, I suspect, is a deep-seated need to believe. Much rides on the belief that acceptance and printing by PA constitutes validation of one's longed-for and fiercely defended status as "published author." That, in a nutshell, is why it is so hard to make a dent in the mindset. Only when the accumulated weight of contrary evidence breaks through can the PA believer adopt a new framework and then accept facts as facts.

--Ken

Sheryl Nantus

02-21-2006, 01:06 AM

good point, Ken...

it's much easier to believe in the "conspiracy" that's keeping their books out of the mainstream bookstores than to believe that they've been taken.

:(

and, as I displayed in my previous post, most of these PA authors have no idea of what "returnable" means or how it should be implemented.

spike

02-21-2006, 01:34 AM

From the PAMB:

The poster's belief is so strong that the facts cannot be accepted as true. Underlying that belief, I suspect, is a deep-seated need to believe. Much rides on the belief that acceptance and printing by PA constitutes validation of one's longed-for and fiercely defended status as "published author." That, in a nutshell, is why it is so hard to make a dent in the mindset. Only when the accumulated weight of contrary evidence breaks through can the PA believer adopt a new framework and then accept facts as facts.

--Ken

Isn't that called congnitive dissonance? When the facts disagree with what you believe and it makes you fight harder? (Trying to remember freshman psych class)

SC Harrison

02-21-2006, 02:23 AM

That's a good article, Steve, even without the direct naming.

Mo

Thanks, Mo. I am going to post the link to the article on the Announcements forum, but they update the website once a week, so it will be gone soon.

Christine N.

02-21-2006, 02:45 AM

From the "Why oh why won't Barnes and Noble stock my book?" thread...

I'm having the same trouble. Honestly, I don't believe it's an issue with Publish America.

Denial

They have done everything they could do to list it as returnable.

Except actually list it AS returnable (you don't know for sure that they have) and give a discount that is attractive to retailers.

I think it's an internal problem with the corporation of Barnes and Noble. I'm frustrated also, because although I know that Ingrams has my book listed as returnable, Barnes and Noble refuses to acknowledge that; thus, book signings are not going to happen for me until they acknowledge my books as returnable.

They might not happen anyway, depending on the regional manager. B&N doesn't take POD books for stocking, they say as much on their criteria for submission via the small press dept. Not that you would know that - PA doesn't try to get the books in the B&N systems, nor do they tell you how to do it. You have to find out from the manager, or another PA author. Yeah.

The problem is not with Publish America, but with those in leadership at Barnes and Noble. Until they register our books as returnable in their system, our books will continue to be regarded as non-returnable.

Of course, it's NEVER PA's fault, is it?

It is highly frustrating.

Yes, it is, and it's only going to get worse.

ResearchGuy

02-21-2006, 03:38 AM

Isn't that called congnitive dissonance? When the facts disagree with what you believe and it makes you fight harder? (Trying to remember freshman psych class)
Precisely. Attributed to Leon Festinger. The response is dictated by the workings of the strain toward consistency. The folks we see on the PAMB are resolving the dissonance one way. Those who find their way here have resolved (or soon do resolve) the other way (the way that better conforms to the observable facts).

--Ken

Gabriele

02-21-2006, 04:30 AM

The problem is not with Publish America, but with those in leadership at Barnes and Noble. Until they register our books as returnable in their system, our books will continue to be regarded as non-returnable.

It's a conspiracy. No agent takes on poor little author, and without an agent poor little author doesn't find a publisher. Poor litte author also doesn't get stored by big bad bookstores even if he's found a pub ... eh, printer. :D

It's not the truth, of course, but an argument I've heard more than once, and not only on the PA forums.

In the last month, three of my writer friends have landed an agent, and one got a publishing contract with a real publisher.

One day we'll meet on the shelves of the the big bad bookstores. I believe in it. :)

Stan Jozwiak

02-21-2006, 04:39 AM

LloydBrown

02-21-2006, 08:00 AM

If we're starting a Debate thread, where should it be? TIO?

Dawno

02-21-2006, 08:08 AM

Conversation about the debate should be in the NEPAT Overflow (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26568) thread in TIO, please.

if you're ever unclear about the purpose of this thread, Jim's guidelines are in the first post (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=480755#post480755).

spike

02-21-2006, 08:20 AM

Who sells our books???

Why, WE do ...

Everyone else just stocks them for us.

That is sad, especially since the next couple of posts agreed heartily.

AnnaWhite

02-21-2006, 01:37 PM

OK, I have the answer!

I have info on three people who recently had contracts terminated by PA, and what they have in common is...

NOTHING WHATSOEVER!

Wasn't it about this time last year that a few authors (including Jean Marie and Soots) were released? Maybe this is how PA welcomes the end of winter, by granting amnesty to a few authors. Maybe, it's a special ritual to herald the arrival of spring.

"Go to the dungeons," said Willeim to his squire, the stony faced Jessica. "When you are down there, cover both your eyes with this cloth. Then choose half-dozen prisoners and release them from their fetters. Let this be our yearly gift to the seasons, that they may grant us good weather."

DaveKuzminski

02-21-2006, 04:56 PM

Of course, there's one other possibility why PA released those particular writers. For instance, what if someone in authority within their locality began the process to prosecute PA unless it released those authors?

So, to those writers who were released, the question is asked, did you voice a complaint to anyone locally or within your state government about PA?

Ken Schneider

02-21-2006, 05:00 PM

More likely, Dave, is that PA read somwhere that publishers release two-three writers a year as a norm. That is the only info they have to go on.

As far as who they release, well it's a pick-um', because few of their titles sell well anyway, mine included.

DaveKuzminski

02-21-2006, 05:45 PM

PA consistently acts according to what will benefit it. This is evident from how PA views contracts and uses the interpretation that fits PA's needs rather than the one the industry abides by. For PA to just pick someone at random to terminate goes against that pattern of behavior. To believe otherwise would be just as wrong as concluding the existence of a conspiracy in the publishing industry to prevent the emergence of new writers when logic dictates that new writers must be found on a regular basis in order to obtain sufficient new material in order to remain in business.

There is a strong likelihood that there is a reason. That is why questions need to be asked. There may be a commonality among them that no one has spotted before. If it can be identified, then more writers stand a better chance of being released from their contracts with PA.

Tilly

02-21-2006, 05:54 PM

PA consistently acts according to what will benefit it.

I think there are exceptions to that. Why hold on to a contract for the full seven years when they know they will get no further benefit from it? This is what they do in the majority of cases, and all it can possibly achieve is to make people more likely to complain and warn others about PA.

I think that's vindictiveness over self-interest.

But I do agree that it's likely there is a reason for these releases. It may be the same reason for all three, or it might be different reasons that are somehow connected. The proximity to royalty time might have something to do with it.

PA likes to keep its authors trapped. That's what makes this so weird.

DaveKuzminski

02-21-2006, 06:04 PM

There are several valid reasons for holding a contract for seven years.

It induces a feeling of helplessness in the authors causing them to rely upon PA.
It creates a feeling that the book will be too old then to be wanted by the public and thus inspires a sense of urgency in the authors to do something.
It provides PA with bargaining and control power.

Tilly

02-21-2006, 06:06 PM

Okay, I agree with that.:)

They are such deleted by Nice-O-Matictm

DeePower

02-21-2006, 07:14 PM

From the PAMB. I left out the isbn and author’s name. It seems that Barnes and Noble did not order the copies. As of today, Ingram shows there are 0 on order, 0 on backorder, 0 in inventory. bookmanager.com shows the title is POD, 5% discount. Ingram shows total sales to date is 11. Not 25. Yes, I know that the copies could have been ordered from PA but the author says in the second post that Barnes and Noble ordered from Ingram.

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:40 pm Post subject: Barnes & Noble! Sharing Good News [/url]

Barnes & Noble store told me today that they can't keep enough of my books in the store. They have been ordering the book since mid-January, but this last order for 25 books has taken over two weeks. They say it's because with POD the books just take longer for processing and to get to them. In addition, they checked with eight other B&N stores within close proximity and they have the same problem; the books go out as soon as they come in. While I was extremely happy to hear this, there are many people who are asking me why the book isn't readily available at the major bookstores. It's difficult to explain that whole process and, I must say, kind of puzzling. Anyway, long story short, the local B&N advised me that they would love to have me in for a book signing as they are constantly receiving calls for my book! Wow, who would have thunk it...

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:02 am Post subject: [url="http://bb.publishamerica.com/posting.php?mode=quote&p=132974"] (http://bb.publishamerica.com/posting.php?mode=quote&p=131889)

Thanks much!

XXXXX, I went to the B&N in the area where a lot of the history for my book takes place. They were very receptive and, since it was in the Ingram database that they use, they initially ordered 8 copies or so just to see how it would do. After seeing the high demand, they have ordered more and more copies, and that led to the book signing invite.

********************************************

How does this happen?

Is the B&N store fibbing? Is the PA author exaggerating? Did the local B&N order the copies and Corporate B&N cancel the order? Did the local B&N order the copies and PA refuse to fill the order.

If the PA author believes that all these copies were actually ordered, this may be where a lot of the anger at royalty time comes from when the “sales” don’t show up on the statement.

Just don't get it.

Dee

Tilly

02-21-2006, 07:25 PM

This is the same author who has a ranking of around 60,000 on B&N.com. From looking at her book I've been wondering whether it has a genuine local interest market. But I have no idea what's going on with the bookstore orders she's mentioned. It is odd that Ingram isn't showing any.

I think she'd be expecting only one or two months worth of sales in this royalty cheque, so whatever is going on, the author might not realise something is seriously odd until the next cheque.

Could this be to do with the new 5% discount? Could the stores be trying (poor things) to order directly from PA to make it more financially feasible for them? PA doesn't seem to like a book selling too well, unless it's to the author. If this book has taken off locally, I don't think PA is set up to deal with it, are they?

PVish

02-21-2006, 07:45 PM

Kevin Yarbrough

02-21-2006, 07:50 PM

This is the same author who has a ranking of around 60,000 on B&N.com.

That don't mean anything. When I was a PA devoutee I had a B&N.com ranking of 54,000. What did my royalty check show? 5 books sold. I also had an Amazon ranking of under a million and got a check for 3 books, I think.

By the way, my 54,000 ranking at B&N.com stayed like that for about a month before it started to fall and then vanished. It doesn't mean crap, as we all know, and as the new PA authors will soon learn.

Tilly

02-21-2006, 09:06 PM

More book ordering problems. Two posts from an author whose books keep showing up as non-returnable:

I got a reply from PA today. They said that my title is not fully set up in their system and that they don't have the basic biblio
data, so the book is automatically showing up as Non Returnable.

Now, I don't know if they mean that it will always be shown as non-returnable or that it will be as soon as my book is fully on the system. I sent them another message asking them this and I also asked that if it will still be listed as non-returnable, what can we do about it? I also suggested, if that is the case, if they could write a letter or communicate in some way to the corperate headquarters of Barnes & Noble to let their stores know that all PA books are returnable. I'll let you know what they say. Also, I suggest that authors that have had the same problem, e-mail PA as I did.

I'm not being critical of PA, they are doing a great job, I just feel that something needs to be done at a higher level. Barnes & Noble have been pleasant too. They are just following orders. They cannot take the word of the authors, they have to do what they are told by their managers. Hopefully, we can clear this problem up.

I just got the reply from PA. They said that the information would have to come from Ingram. I will call Ingram again, but I feel that I am chasing a wild goose here. My respect for PA has just drop 10 points. I thought they were in the publishing business.

Does anyone know what shows up when a book is listed as returnable? Does it mention the ridiculous 5% discount? Otherwise, bookstores are going to get a nasty shock.

It does sound like this poor author is getting the run around. They also still think PA is interested in selling books through bookstores, rather than to the authors.:(

Christine N.

02-21-2006, 09:11 PM

Woof. That author better be prepared for a) a public dressing-down, or b) banning, or c) her post to just disappear.

Ken Schneider

02-21-2006, 09:24 PM

Well, well, well, isn't this a fabulous day.

Thanks must be given to Phil Dolan for blazing the trail.

My theory, Jenna, is that PA wants no part in the money losing game of arbitration. Hence, the releases of late. Those releasings re-para;17 of the contract. I assume that they don't want to site para 24 because of the wording about buying the remaining, paper, books and plates, which of course POD books wouldn't have.

But, as PA says, YOUR breaching para 17 can't be used either, because most of us have worked our tails off in the beginning to sell our PA book. I've done all of the things that Para 17 lists, at one time or the other. I even purchased 150 books.

I would not be surprised that anyone who asked for a release after a couple years on the roles, will get it, free-of gag.

Including me. Wink. WOoT! Yes, I did!

rekirts

02-21-2006, 09:28 PM

Congratulations, Ken! May you and all those released from PA's clutches be an inspiration to others.

Tilly

02-21-2006, 09:28 PM

Woof. That author better be prepared for a) a public dressing-down, or b) banning, or c) her post to just disappear.

The last post, that criticised PA, has vanished.

Ken, FREEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!
:PartySmil

Sher2

02-21-2006, 09:47 PM

Those releasings re-para;17 of the contract. I assume that they don't want to site para 24 because of the wording about buying the remaining, paper, books and plates, which of course POD books wouldn't have.

But, as PA says, YOUR breaching para 17 can't be used either, because most of us have worked our tails off in the beginning to sell our PA book.
To my knowledge, two of the last three releases cited Paragraph 24. The third was pursuant to Paragraph 17. In that case, she had told PA flat out that she wasn't going to promote.
Including me. Wink. WOoT! Yes, I did!
Does that mean you've received a release, or requested it?

Gabriele

02-21-2006, 09:57 PM

My respect for PA has just drop 10 points. I thought they were in the publishing business.

I smell a tone letter here. :D

Darlin', they're in the printing business, and they don't even know much about that, either. ;)

Sheryl Nantus

02-21-2006, 10:00 PM

I smell a tone letter here. :D

Darlin', they're in the printing business, and they don't even know much about that, either. ;)

:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

ain't that the frakking truth.

Ken Schneider

02-21-2006, 10:00 PM

Does that mean you've received a release, or requested it?

I got it, Yep.

I sent this e-mail last Wednesday, 2-14

Good day, I would like my print rights returned without any gag orders, or conditions. Isbn 1413734421.

I plan to take other actions if you don't agree.

Thank you,
Author of book support.

The letter is dated 2- 15. Sent 2-16. I got it today.

Saundra Julian

02-21-2006, 10:05 PM

YES! Congratulations!! :D

Christine N.

02-21-2006, 10:06 PM

Yay Ken!!!

Free at last, free at last!

DaveKuzminski

02-21-2006, 10:08 PM

Well, well, well, looks like that fund we're building to support arbitration for PA authors is going to just sit around without being used. Send in your letters now. Let PA know you're serious. Be polite, but be firm just like Ken was. Good luck to you all.

By the way, congratulations, Ken.

Memphis Ed

02-21-2006, 10:15 PM

I got it, Yep.

I sent this e-mail last Wednesday, 2-14

Good day, I would like my print rights returned without any gag orders, or conditions. Isbn 1413734421.

I plan to take other actions if you don't agree.

Thank you,
Author of book support.

The letter is dated 2- 15. Sent 2-16. I got it today.

Hooray!!!!!!

Sher2

02-21-2006, 10:20 PM

I got it, Yep.
Sorry, I hadn't read Overflow yet when I asked that. All riiiiight, then -- congratulations!

SeanDSchaffer

02-21-2006, 10:20 PM

Congratulations, Ken. I'm glad to hear you got out. That's awesome!

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/smilehooray.gif

spike

02-21-2006, 10:34 PM

Woof. That author better be prepared for a) a public dressing-down, or b) banning, or c) her post to just disappear.

Can't find that message.

DeePower

02-21-2006, 11:33 PM

Victor Cretella
vcretella@gordonsimmons.com

Gordon & Simmons, LLC
603-B West Patrick Street
Frederick, MD 21701
301-662-9122
fax 301-698-0392

Just in case anyone felt the need to cc PA's attorney on correspondence to PA.

Dee

xhouseboy

02-22-2006, 01:44 AM

I'm not being critical of PA, they are doing a great job

Yeah, they're doing a splendid job of not giving a **** about whether their authors can fulfil their obligations and get their books into bookstores for signings.

Criteria for a successful company in la-la land: fail your customers miserably and and consistently - they'll love you for it.

Tilly

02-22-2006, 01:46 AM

That author's next post was critical of PA. So PA deleted it. We're only allowed to read the authors posts while they're still happy.

Ilovepensandpaper

02-22-2006, 03:32 AM

I think that I might have just underwent the ultimate indignity. The Cleveland Post has declined to publish my press release concerning my splendid PA novel, The Newness of New.
This Cleveland Post has nothing to do with the Ohio city. Cleveland is a small sub-district of the small town of Benson, North Carolina. It does have a fine Middle school, and an even finer Elementary School, and it has a free home delivered weekly newspaper called The Cleveland Post. Filled mostly with advertisements from the local merchants the Post does contain lists of community events and local church and civic group happenings. And only the other month, there was a small item about a book signing that a local author was going to perform in one of the church halls on a Saturday afternoon.
I thought that I had edtablished my residency requirements and I also qualified as a local author, so I sent a little note to the assistant editor whose name is featured on the announcements column.
I have received no response whatsoever.
Disgruntled
Stan Jozwiak
Stan,
Are you talking about the release PA was supposed to send? What PA sends is an order form, not a real release. An order form with your own quote about the book on it. No newspaper is going to print that. Do you know whether PA even mailed a release? If not, the editor probably looked at your letter with disbelief and threw it away. I wrote and emailed my OWN release to The Herald and had it in the next edition of the paper (In the days when I was happy with PA). The slight has nothing to do with you once so ever. Blame PA.

Lisa Maliga

02-22-2006, 06:38 AM

Dated February 15, 2006 is a letter I received from PublishAmerica. The opening sentence reads: “I am informing you that, under Par. 24 of our agreement, we are discontinuing the publication of your book ‘[title]' as of this day.”

Par. 24 is then quoted and it deals with lack of public demand.

Jessica Lewis, an employee at PublishAmerica wrote in her closing paragraph, “I am informing you herewith that we have currently no copies of your book in stock. All rights under the copyright are herewith returned to you.”

After I got the certified one-page letter this afternoon at the post office, I became one of the recent parolees from PA prison. This news makes me an officially happy Ex, Former, Past, No More, Previous PublishAmerica author.

Anyone wishing to get out of their contract should refrain from promoting their work. Additionally, asking for your book’s rights back via email and registered snail mail, writing articles, and sending out press releases to tell the general online public of this also seems to help.

Best of luck to those of you who want your rights back.

Ilovepensandpaper

02-22-2006, 06:54 AM

Way to go, Lisa!

ResearchGuy

02-22-2006, 07:23 AM

... I became one of the recent parolees from PA prison....
Better! A complete pardon!

:-)

--Ken

TracySutterer & GaryRogers

02-22-2006, 07:36 AM

I have been running since I got home from work and finally looked in my mailbox. I found a notice for a certified letter that is waiting for me at the post office. I'll pick it up tomorrow during my planning period at school. The certified letter is from Publish America.

Do you suppose it's a release notice? I may not sleep tonight just thinking about what it could be.

I'll let you know,
Tracy

SeanDSchaffer

02-22-2006, 07:39 AM

Congratulations, Lisa. I'm glad to hear you got out!

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/emoticonhi.gif

Tilly

02-22-2006, 02:35 PM

Congratulations Lisa! :snoopy:

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you Tracy :)

AnnaWhite

02-22-2006, 03:02 PM

Christine N.

02-22-2006, 03:14 PM

Wow, mass exodus from PA. I guess the arbitration losses really did get them running for cover. Willie can't bear the thought of parting with that heliocopter, ya know.

Yay! Strike while the iron is hot, folks... you want out, now's the time to ask. Tell them you will NOT promote your book in any way, shape or form, and you want out.

JimmyD1318

02-22-2006, 03:55 PM

Congratulations to all the freed prisoners, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you, Tracy and Argile.

There's a new story on True Stories about PublishAmerica (http://www.wizardessbooks.com/html/PA_stories.htm) - Lisa's. You may need to click the refresh or reload button on your browser to see it, if you opened the site recently. It's a remarkable story. Some of the emails from PA are enough to boil the blood of a polar bear!

:e2steer:

The more and more that I read about them, the more that I'm suprised that they are still in bussiness! How could anybody even think about letting themselves be talked to like that! Once again.....I'm happy that I found out about them before I signed with them.

(Off topic; Has anyone here had dealings with Mundania Press? Are they as bad as PA? I was thinking about submitting my book to them)

Andrew Jameson

02-22-2006, 04:14 PM

(Off topic; Has anyone here had dealings with Mundania Press? Are they as bad as PA? I was thinking about submitting my book to them)Take a look at the index thread (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=792) stickied at the top of the forum. There should be at least one Mundania thread indexed. If reading the Mundania thread doesn't answer your questions, post to it and it'll be bumped to the main page.

JimmyD1318

02-22-2006, 04:25 PM

Take a look at the index thread (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=792) stickied at the top of the forum. There should be at least one Mundania thread indexed. If reading the Mundania thread doesn't answer your questions, post to it and it'll be bumped to the main page.

Thank you, I checked it out.

postshy

02-22-2006, 05:31 PM

To all the lucky people recently released from PA. I hope they will not continue to sell your books and laugh because now they do not have to pay royalties. Even if it was only a few pennies, I would want it.

Ha, PA, I will not ask. Keep my book, it will not do you any good anyhow. I have asked enough times to be released and you chose to ignore me, so I will get you any other way I can. That healthy file of "garbage" that you have been sending me for the last two years needs to be put to some good use. My royalty cheque had better not be "O" either, or you will have some explaining to do:).

Meanwhile, PA lurkers, listen carefully - PA will take your money; make it difficult to get your books into bookstores; give your writing a bad reputation by association and then kick you out the door whether you want to go or not because they have no further use for you or your book.

Have a nice day, PA!

postshy/Roberta

Sheryl Nantus

02-22-2006, 05:42 PM

I'm kinda hoping they don't release me because I'm enjoying clogging up their system with my $1.62 royalty checks...

:D

ByGrace

02-22-2006, 06:17 PM

Congratulations to all those who received releases! It is almost a year ago I received mine. It is interesting that they are doing this right at royalty time.

I have gotten two phone calls from authors in the last couple of weeks that are seeking releases. There are more people out there working to get their rights back than we know.

Today I received an email from an author who was released a year ago. Unfortunately she signed the gag contract. Anyway, she wants to get Amazon and the other online bookstores to remove her PA book. She has rewritten it and wants to keep the same title, and now that she is ready to resubmit it, she doesn’t want it anywhere on the net. Does anyone have information about this? How do we get Amazon to take our pages down? I tried and they told me that as long as they have sellers offering used copies the pages will remain.

Should we be concerned about our books being up on Amazon. Would a publisher or agent bother to look and if they found it and saw it was printed by PA would this ruin our chances of getting our books published?

Kevin Yarbrough

02-22-2006, 06:33 PM

Congrats Ken & Co. on getting your release, it's about time. As for how they are picking the releases? Maybe Willie is sitting in his office, crying over his lost money, and is placing us so called "PA bashers" names in his winter hat and drawing them out.

"Dang it, I didn't want to draw Ken's name out."

I can't figure out how they are choosing who to release and who to hold. What is their method? Cause I know I have not promoted my book after the first year and I will not. It is pointless. It was then, it is even more so now with the 5% discount.

Tracy, good luck.

DaveKuzminski

02-22-2006, 06:41 PM

If I'm not mistaken, some online booksellers permit authors to post comments about their books. This would be a good place to post statements about how poorly PA has supported your PA-produced book and mention how many errors PA included. It might induce PA into greater speed in releasing your rights and terminating the contract. ;)

Hi, Victor. Just letting PA authors know of another place they can spread the truth. Waves to Willem, Larry, and Miranda.

Julianne

02-22-2006, 06:49 PM

Found this in the blogsphere this morning:

http://preventcancertoday.blogspot.com/

Note the line, "Even Though that my book " Prevent Cancer Today " has been taken off from the Market..."

Hm....

Tilly

02-22-2006, 06:58 PM

:Wha: At least it's off the market now.

I'm wondering if it's possible that he really, truly doesn't understand what plagiarism is? Though, given he says this:

I gave Credit to the Companies from where I got there Information from to use in my Book " Prevent Cancer Today ".

and this doesn't seem to have been the case at all, I'm guessing he at least understood that what he was doing was wrong.

Tilly

02-22-2006, 07:04 PM

In the Mean time I will be fighting for Revenge against PublishAmerica for taking away all the success from alot of Author's.

Do you think PA is trying to send him to us, like some sort of secret weapon?:D

Now look at this, my second book will be big and I will have a different name on it so that no one won't try to Harrase me when the name " Pavel Tsupruk " is on it and this time I will be really smart with it.

I wonder if PA will publish him again? If he's using a different name, or if they just don't check (which would be my bet) they could end up in the same situation as before.

Christine N.

02-22-2006, 07:05 PM

I personally like this bit...

In the Mean time I will be fighting for Revenge against PublishAmerica for taking away all the success from alot of Author's.

Run Willie Run!

spike

02-22-2006, 07:06 PM

I wonder if PA will publish him again? If he's using a different name, or if they just don't check (which would be my bet) they could end up in the same situation again.

That would be funny. I wonder what kind of revenge he wants.

This guy is scary.

Sheryl Nantus

02-22-2006, 07:18 PM

scary, but can't spell worth spit.

:D

Kevin Yarbrough

02-22-2006, 07:22 PM

"In the Mean time I will be fighting for Revenge against PublishAmerica for taking away all the success from alot of Author's."

Translated (nice-o-matic): I'm mad at you for taking my book out of production.

See, Willie, what did I tell ya. We are saving your butt more than Vic ever has. You would never have known about ole cancer boys plagarism if it wasn't for us. You would be losing more money in arbitration if it wasn't for us getting word out there and you letting authors go. We found all of the copyright violated covers you used.

What more can we do for you? If we keep this up we should start billing you. Fire Vic and hire us, it's that simple.

DaveKuzminski

02-22-2006, 07:28 PM

See, Willie, what did I tell ya. We are saving your butt more than Vic ever has. You would never have known about ole cancer boys plagarism if it wasn't for us. You would be losing more money in arbitration if it wasn't for us getting word out there and you letting authors go. We found all of the copyright violated covers you used.

What more can we do for you? If we keep this up we should start billing you. Fire Vic and hire us, it's that simple.

Arbitration, hell!

Those other authors could take you to court and you know it, Willem. What's more, they would win and you know that, too. We just saved you enough to purchase a whole family of helicopters. ;)

Aconite

02-22-2006, 07:31 PM

Arbitration, hell!

Those other authors could take you to court and you know it, Willem. What's more, they would win and you know that, too. We just saved you enough to purchase a whole family of helicopters. ;)
Yes, those other authors whose copyrights Cancer Boy's book violated were not bound by any contract with PA. They wouldn't have to go to arbitration; they could sue PA's rump off.

Sheryl Nantus

02-22-2006, 07:36 PM

well, it *is* still listed for sale at Amazon...

:)

Maddog

02-22-2006, 07:40 PM

I can't believe this is still up!

You sure are working hard for such a small return. I went the same route you did, spent unnumbered amount of hours, long distance phone calls, paper and ink for posters, gas for my car, press releases, etc all for the privelege of having my books in a bookstore. Barnes and Nobles purchased five of my first book and place them in their store and sold all five copies. I was excited for sure.
Then reality set in when I received my royalty check from PublishAmerica. I received only $4.31 royalities from those five books. I have never worked so hard for so little in my whole life.

In doing some research here is something that I found really interesting.

"you will sell very few books, if any at all, through brick and mortar bookstores. Bookstores expect a 55 percent minimum wholesale discount on books which we cannot give because it makes the price per book too high. We give a 40 percent wholesale discount which is enough to have books listed in internet sites.

Bookstores know that most books published by POD have little or no promotion and will be unlikely to sell. Nearly all bookstores have access to the Ingram catalog and can order the books, however, depending upon individual store policies, some will allow customers to special order the books and some will not. Equally important, how many customers will go to a bookstore to order when they can just as easily order themselves over the internet?

To put the above in a nutshell, you would likely be wasting your time by focusing on promoting to brick and mortar bookstores."

This person is correct. Why would someone want to go to the hassle of going to a bookstore when I can purchase the same thing on line, from the privacy of my home? I can have it sent directly to me and save all the gas, and hassles of the bookstore.
Generally, I can purchase a book from the publishers website and receive a discount of somekind saving me money in the process.

Ol' Fashioned Girl

02-22-2006, 07:43 PM

I'm kinda hoping they don't release me because I'm enjoying clogging up their system with my $1.62 royalty checks...

:D

I'm with you, Sheryl. I'm doing all I can to cost *them* money. I hope they hang on for the full seven years!

Kevin Yarbrough

02-22-2006, 07:45 PM

well, it *is* still listed for sale at Amazon...

:)

Then maybe they could sue Amazon as well.

rekirts

02-22-2006, 07:47 PM

I can't believe this is still up! Maybe it's still up because it implies that selling books online actually works.

Problem is, unless someone knows it's a book they want, they won't buy it online. The way to find out if you want a book is to see it on a shelf and browse through it. Can't do that online, only in brick and mortar bookstores.

Kevin Yarbrough

02-22-2006, 07:49 PM

I can't believe this is still up!

Why not? That is exactly what PA wants. They want you to order books online or from them, they don't wants books in bookstores. If they don't sell to the author then they want to sell books online. One here, one there, money up front.

Maddog

02-22-2006, 07:50 PM

I'm surprised the author is still a proponent of PA after getting a $4 royalty check. Now that's what I call loyalty!

Stan Jozwiak

02-22-2006, 08:07 PM

"Jessica Lewis, an employee at PublishAmerica wrote in her closing paragraph, “I am informing you herewith that we have currently no copies of your book in stock. All rights under the copyright are herewith returned to you.”

It is so good of Jessica Lewis to return the rights to your copyright to you, however, who actually signed the rescind order? Jessica Lewis is not listed as a partner of Publish America LLLP, and judging from her overuse of the word "herewith" and her misuse of the word "we" when she should have used Publish America LLLP, in the quoted missive, she is just a typical PA semi-literate nonentity who might not have any legal authority to cede your copyright back to you.
Please check your certificate. It has to be signed by a partner for it to be valid.
Very Respectfully
Stan Jozwiak

Sheryl Nantus

02-22-2006, 08:07 PM

not really - he's buying into the classic "Bookstores have 90 days to pay us!" tripe that gets spewed out every now and then by other PA authors.

they truly are their own worst enemies at times.

*sighs*

DaveKuzminski

02-22-2006, 08:11 PM

I believe that PA has some (two or three) general partners and that she is one of them.

Aconite

02-22-2006, 08:36 PM

“I am informing you herewith that we have currently no copies of your book in stock. All rights under the copyright are herewith returned to you.”Wait a minute. PA doesn't have anything to do with the copyrights of any of their books. The copyrights belong to the authors. PA only had certain publishing rights.

TracySutterer & GaryRogers

02-22-2006, 09:05 PM

I am no longer a PA author in any regard! My certified letter contained three letters which released me from all three of my books from PA!

Each letter read:

February 15, 2006

Dear Ms. Sutterer,

I am informing you that, as per your request for termination of your contract, that we are discontinuing the publication of your book The Contingency of Power as of this day.
Your final royalty statement will be sent as usual. All rights under the copyright are herewith returned to you.

Sincerely,
Jessica Lewis
Publish America

All three of the letters were exactly the same other than the change of title for each book. This is rather surprising since my poetry book was just listed as a new release a couple of weeks ago. They also gave me a 100 dollar advance for this book which I have already received and spent! I guess that means I got 100 bucks for nothing! My poetry book was not even all the way done being produced! Isn’t that nuts! I told them way before they sent me the advance to just drop the contract and save that money, but nooooooooo! They sent me a tone letter instead! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!

No more PA! No more Author’s Support!

Now all we want is the same letter for Argile’s book! I’m hoping that we will get another letter for him soon!

Tracy

Tilly

02-22-2006, 09:09 PM

Wow Tracy, that's wonderful.:e2woo:
I hope Argile gets some good news soon.:)

NancyMehl

02-22-2006, 09:09 PM

Tracy,

That is awesome news! Big congratulations!

Now it's Argile's turn...

Nancy

JennaGlatzer

02-22-2006, 09:11 PM

:hooray: :hooray: :hooray:

Congratulations to all those who have just won their freedom. I hope for many, many more such announcements to come.

Christine N.

02-22-2006, 09:12 PM

Yeah, that last statement makes no sense (in the letter) "All rights under the copyright" ???

What does that mean? You bought the copyright, and even if you hadn't personally done it, a real publisher would have take one out in your name. There are no "rights under copyright". They have purchased rights from you under contract, the right to publish. I don't get it.

Yeah, even when they're releasing people they can't get it right.

LloydBrown

02-22-2006, 09:21 PM

Okay, I sent a note to the ASA about PA. I was thinking that they might be able to force some notice on the company's website. Here's their reply (edited for line breaks only).

Thank you for your e-mail to the Advertising Standards Authority.

The ASA’s remit is limited to looking into complaints about advertising material only. We are unable to investigate complaints about general business practices.

The ASA's remit on the Internet extends to advertisements in paid for space only - not generic information on a company's own website. The remit includes:
* banner, pop-up and other advertisements
* the contents of commercial emails
* sales promotions anywhere online

For complaints about the trading practices of the company you could try speaking to your local trading standards department for advice – www.tradingstandards.gov.uk (http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/).

If you would like to make a complaint about the advertising material distributed by Publish Atlantica please complete our online complaints form at www.asa.org.uk (http://www.asa.org.uk/). Alternatively, you can contact our complaints team at the address, fax or telephone number below.

Regards

Debra Quantrill

So, if anyone knows of any Google adwords or any other paid advertising for Publish Atlantica, please follow the link Debra gives above.

Jean Marie

02-22-2006, 09:25 PM

I think this means in their twisted collected evil minds that you now have your rights back. However, there remains one tiny caveat. They still have the right to illegaly sell it.

On the flip side-congratulations are still in order, Tracy

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/Emotepartyguy.gif http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/emoteTheWave.gif

It's not supposed to make any sense, so don't bother trying to figure it out!

DaveKuzminski

02-22-2006, 09:41 PM

[QUOTE=Jean Marie]IHowever, there remains one tiny caveat. They still have the right to illegaly sell it.
[QUOTE]

That's not a right. Besides, that only opens them up to even worse penalties because at that point I believe it becomes a criminal activity which the Maryland Attorney General can prosecute regardless of how many companies are involved.

In view of the sudden releases of rights by PA, it might also be on account of some authors preparing for a class action arbitration hearing since the fund P&E and others are building could support that. If so, then PA's only real recourse is to release any authors stating they want a release. Otherwise, PA stands to lose thousands of dollars in awards to each author involved in any class action arbitration because PA knows it would lose. The numbers would absolutely destroy PA by forcing it into bankruptcy or at least a negative cash flow.

So, Larry and Willem, here are your choices. Revamp your web site to tell the truth about your business. Quit banning your authors for asking questions. Release any authors who want out. Otherwise, we destroy PA.

Oh, if you really want to make amends, apologize publicly on your web page to David Bowlin.

Jean Marie

02-22-2006, 09:48 PM

Play on words, Dave. Of course they don't have the right. That's why I refer to them as nothing more than a pack of thieveshttp://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/emoteranting.gifor evil, lying criminals.
Yup, that's what PA is: criminals

But lurkers want to continue to believe in these fools? Can't for the life of me understand why. If they do, whatever. Reminds me, got a phone call to make...

MadScientistMatt

02-22-2006, 09:59 PM

Run Willie Run!

Perhaps they finally did wind up printing something like the next Unabomer Manifesto, if Pavel's that unglued.

AnnaWhite

02-22-2006, 10:02 PM

I am no longer a PA author in any regard! My certified letter contained three letters which released me from all three of my books from PA!
:hooray::e2dance::partyguy:

I'm so happy for you, Tracy! Here's hoping that the next post will bring you Argile's freedom too.
:)

Jean Marie

02-22-2006, 10:07 PM

Anyone w/ a grievance against PublishAmerica who wishes to be heard:

please call: Mr. Earl Bundy

Washington Division Postal Inspector

410-347-4392

I'm sure he's looking forward to hearing from all 17,000 unhappy authors. Unfortunately, there is no toll-free number. For this, our government apologizes.

spike

02-22-2006, 10:14 PM

Perhaps they finally did wind up printing something like the next Unabomer Manifesto, if Pavel's that unglued.

You know, that would make a good novel...Scam-publisher scams a disturbed and unbalanced writer, who goes after him with a perverse and manic homicidal rage that makes the movie "Saw" look like the Sound of Music.

Any takers? Not my genre

PVish

02-22-2006, 10:22 PM

Congrats to all who escaped from PA's clutches.

Wait two or three months and try to order your book from some online sources (and maybe even from PA). Just to make sure. . . .

Tilly

02-22-2006, 10:23 PM

Very Interesting question. Although, I know for me Ive been having many problems. My book was released on July 18, and the bookstores are still unable to order my book. According to the computer systems it's listed as Home Delivery Only. Its getting very hard to promote a book that is only available online!! Ive done my website, business cards, posters, newsletters, and everything! The bottom line is not everyone has internet access, and available to order online. Would be much easier if the books were returnable.. EVERYWHERE... I have 2 more manuscripts ready to get published but I keep thinking, am I going to have these same problems? PA has made the dream of being published come true, but I think for my other 2 manuscripts.. Ill be going elsewhere.
Anyway, (ignore the grammer and typos that may or maynot be in this message.. its been a long day) lol

She's done all she can, including the kind of promotion PA advocates on their website. Promotion the author pays for.
I hope she does submit elsewhere for her next two books.

Kevin Yarbrough

02-22-2006, 10:25 PM

Congrats, Tracy. I hope Argile's comes soon so he could start getting better without all the hassle. After all, the stress from PA made him have a heart attack so he could use that in arbitration. It wouldn't be a good thing for the arbitrator to hear that PA is trying to kill their authors with stress induced myocardial infarctions.

I know I am looking into arbitration myself. Them sending the cops to my house on a bogus charge, the tone letters I still have saved in a nice file. The letter I got from Vic stating that Purple was a fraud when he knew it wasn't. It should be more than enough to get my book rights back. Not to mention it is tax time and I got some money and now I can afford it. Yeah!!

ResearchGuy

02-22-2006, 10:37 PM

...The way to find out if you want a book is to see it on a shelf and browse through it....
Or read a (reliable, professional) review or hear a personal recommendation or already know and enjoy the author's work. Dunno about other folks, I but I have bought many books on the basis of published reviews, some on the basis of friends' recommendations, and a few as a result of Amazon reader reviews (assuming I am already looking for something on the topic and just needed to make a decision on that book). Some I have bought sight unseen because they were cited in notes or bibliography of a book I was reading and I needed to pursue the research further. Browsing is good, but it is not all there is.

--Ken

DeePower

02-22-2006, 10:49 PM

Publish America, LLLP is the enity most of us refer to as PA. It is the publisher. It is owned by Publish America, Incorporated.

Publish America, Inc. is a closely held stock corporation located at 208 Crestview Court, Frederick, Maryland, 21702. William Meiners is the chief executive officer and Larry Cloppers is the president. Their legal connection with PA is as officers of the company that owns PA.

PA is operated on a day-to-day basis by Miranda Prather. Her official title is managing director.

When I worked at a big corporation I signed letters for the corporation that were legally binding and I wasn't an officer or director. I believe any employee can be given authority to sign on behalf of PA.

Vic Cretella is the resident agent of both PA and Publish America, Inc.

Dee

akaa1a

02-22-2006, 10:57 PM

Christine N.

02-22-2006, 11:00 PM

PA is a public corp?? I wonder who the stockholders are? Perhaps the stock dropped, considerably, and that's why all the releases?

DeePower

02-22-2006, 11:02 PM

I have really got to get back to the book I'm working on and stop hanging around this board!

I have a list of people that anyone who received their rights back from PA might want to contact to make sure their book is removed for sale.

Lightning Source
Barnes and Noble Corporate Offices
Borders
Ingram
Amazon.com

I am not going to post the contact information for these people here or anywhere else, but if you want the list email me author@brianhillanddeepower.com

If you don't think I'll recognize your name, tell me your real name and the title of your book PA has released.

I know for a fact that just because amazon has sellers that say they have a new or used copies of your book for sale doesn't mean they actually have a copy. They may not. Many of them are just other online booksellers that order the book from the publisher after they've sold a copy to a customer.

I know for a fact that just because your ranking on amazon improves that doesn't mean you've sold a book. It may mean that all the other books have changed their ranking based on their sales. This doesn't make sense I know, but it's true.

I know for a fact that just because amazon says that the ordering time has increased or decreased doesn't mean you've sold a book. I also know that just because amazon says hurry only one copy left, and then that statement is gone a few days later, that doesn't mean they have ordered and received more copies.

If Ingram has your book in stock, they can sell that copy even if you have your rights back. If you want to find out how many books are in stock and Year to date sales call
615-213-6803

If you want to find all the online stores that have your book go to http://www.bookfinder4u.com then punch in your isbn

Dee

DeePower

02-22-2006, 11:09 PM

It is a closely held corporation. Not a public company.

Dee

xhouseboy

02-23-2006, 12:20 AM

You know, that would make a good novel...Scam-publisher scams a disturbed and unbalanced writer, who goes after him with a perverse and manic homicidal rage that makes the movie "Saw" look like the Sound of Music.

Like it.

This was always on the cards. Pavel has simply redirected his fury. Revenge will be mine. My career has been ruined. Someone must pay. Anyone. Next target for a guy like that is usually someone in Government.

rekirts

02-23-2006, 12:42 AM

Or read a (reliable, professional) review or hear a personal recommendation or already know and enjoy the author's work. Dunno about other folks, I but I have bought many books on the basis of published reviews, some on the basis of friends' recommendations, and a few as a result of Amazon reader reviews (assuming I am already looking for something on the topic and just needed to make a decision on that book). Some I have bought sight unseen because they were cited in notes or bibliography of a book I was reading and I needed to pursue the research further. Browsing is good, but it is not all there is.

--Ken

I don't buy novels online unless I already know and enjoy an author's work--which means I found them originally in a bookstore. I don't go by reviews and recommendations because I have done so in the past and regretted it. I might look for a book because someone recommended it to me , but if I can't look inside it, I won't buy it. I might buy a book online that has the "look inside" feature, but most PA books don't. When it comes to what I like to read, I only trust my own judgment.

Reference books are a different matter entirely, but most PA authors write novels or poetry books, not reference books. Cancer boy, of course is one exception.

AnneMarble

02-23-2006, 12:50 AM

:Wha: At least it's off the market now.

I'm wondering if it's possible that he really, truly doesn't understand what plagiarism is? ...
Well he did say that he had "legaly Sited" all of the words in his book. Maybe he confused "cite" with "site." He think that citing research means that if you see it on-line, you can use it. And when he says "Every Word for word in my Book has been legally Sited...," he wasn't kidding -- most of the words came from other places.

Anyway, to keep this on-topic (ahem), this just proves that PA is not a good place for any author to be. No matter how good your book is, this is another nail in the coffin of its chances. Booksellers already think of PA as a vanity press, not to mention a publisher that gives discounts that are insultingly low and is extremely hard to deal with. Now they are going to think of them as the place that published a book that was pretty much plagiarised without checking it themselves. (One minute Googling the first page would have saved them from accepting it!) With the number of books they accept, I'm sure this isn't the first time, just the first one that was detected. And what else is out there that hasn't been found out? Hate literature? :( Pedo stuff? :( Fan fiction that uses copyrighted characters? (I'm not even counting the infamous covers that have already been discussed as those don't involve vetting of the manuscript.)

Is this the company you want your manuscript to keep? It's like letting your manuscript hang out with manuscripts that have needle tracks on their arms. :( If you truly love your book, protect it from being smeared by this sort of thing. Submit it somewhere else, rewrite it as much as you must, and when necessary, learn when to put it away and write a better book. (I've done that several times myself and I never regretted it. Trunk novels are not a waste as I learned from every one, and had fun learning to write. :D) Heck, if you really just want a copy to show to family and friends, use a service such as a copying center or Lulu.com.

BeeBomb

02-23-2006, 01:04 AM

It is a closely held corporation. Not a public company.

Dee

Hello, Dee! If someone wants to sue a corporation, they can sue jointly and severally, meaning anyone who has had access to anyone's material or signed for can be held liable. When you do it jointly it means everyone...severally means if one doesn't pay the other has to.

Bee

ResearchGuy

02-23-2006, 01:14 AM

I don't buy novels online unless I already know and enjoy an author's work...
Agreed there. My test for a novel is to pick it up and start reading. If I am still reading after a few pages, I usually buy it. (BTW, Stephen King's latest failed that test. It was Blah Blah by page 2. Maybe I need to give it another try, though.) Never going to happen for a PA novel, not in physical form in a bookstore -- only the theoretical chance to read a portion online in a probably hideously designed Web page (with garish colors, horrible fonts, and doohickeys flying around the screen).

Would have saved me twenty bucks and a snitload of grief to have seen a certain PA children's book (maybe written for very, very BAD children) before buying it.

--Ken

Christine N.

02-23-2006, 01:34 AM

Oh, ok, Dee, I thought that's what you said. I guess I'm just not familiar with a "closely held stock company" and what that means. Thanks :)

xhouseboy

02-23-2006, 02:08 AM

This guy posted on Monday stating that he was submitting a provisional draft of his second novel to PA, as it wasn't completely finished yet. But he was excited and keeping his fingers crossed that it would be accepted.

Two whole nail-biting days later, and he then posted this on the Wednesday.

My second book, ***************, has been accepted by PA!!!

Totally thrilled... and I can't honestly say that I'm any less thrilled this time round compared to when my first book had been accepted

Obviously isn't familiar with the old adage that whatever comes that easy in life is not really worth having.

Nexusman

02-23-2006, 02:12 AM

Oh, ok, Dee, I thought that's what you said. I guess I'm just not familiar with a "closely held stock company" and what that means. Thanks :)

It basically means (disclaimer: I am not a broker) that the stock is only available to the partners (and possibly the employees) and cannot be bought or sold on market exchanges. For example, since Microsoft is publicly traded, you can go out and buy all you can afford. Since PA isn't publicly traded, you can't buy any. (Not that I can think of a reason why I'd want to own part of PA, besides using the stock certificate as part of the clean-up process after a bowel movement.)

-Nick

Ilovepensandpaper

02-23-2006, 02:13 AM

Christine N.

02-23-2006, 02:34 AM

LOL Nexusman. Thank you for that concise (and way too visual) answer :)

Christine N.

02-23-2006, 02:42 AM

We find this on the PAMB...
I think we must all realize that we tend to join various boards as a means of promotion for our book or books.

I for one have joined countless boards. From time to time I even forget which ones, and am shocked to read that some are PA bashing? I think that none of us should condemn anyone if by accident or ? Is on such a board. However I personally have never bashed PA. If ever a post is made stating otherwise, I would be surprised ,as they could never have any backup.

Like all authors there are always some things we could complain about. Whether a product we bought in a store or a publisher ,we all have some complaints or issues.
However I never forget that PA was the only publisher so far that willingly gave me an opportunity to be published. For that I am eternally grateful. I do mean eternally. Why bash or bite the hand that feeds you? To the bashers I say "Get a Life."

There is far more than monetary gains to this business of writing and being recognized.

Emphasis mine. Uh, so there's a thousand some odd pages of backup, dear. Yes, there is far more than monetary gains and recognition. There's the satisfaction of writing a book. But with PA, who reads it? Personally, I write because I like it. I publish so others can read it. Business of writing. Yep, it is a business, unless you don't make money, then it's a hobby.

Why did you send your books to PA (I say books, because I know this author has at least two with them) if you didn't have some hope of them being read by the public? You thought that PA read them, didn't you? You thought that your manuscript was better than someone else's, that you beat out others to get 'published'. And since I haven't read her books, I don't know the quality. I do know that PA didn't choose you above others, or that they even know what your book is about.

Methinks someone is trying to rationalize. Only a few steps away from acceptance.

Wllem Meiners stated, in public, during Phil Dolan's arbitration, that PA's main goal is to sell books to authors. Remember that.

Sheryl Nantus

02-23-2006, 02:46 AM

I do enjoy the way it suddenly twists around to "I'm not out to make money off my books!"...

yes, but you're not out to LOSE money, are you?

Tilly

02-23-2006, 02:53 AM

I have a family member who has 2 books on PA. I wrote her and told her about PA, but I haven't heard from her. Before I knew about the PA scam, I did say I would buy her first book. I do not want to buy any PA book! I don't know what exactly to do or say. I want to see her work, but not pay PA anything. I thought about asking to see her proofs, but I dunno...I do have friends that even though I told them about PA, still want my book. I guess it is at their descretion what they do, but ugh. Two already have it...

It must have taken a lot of courage to talk to your relative about PA. You could offer to let your friends read an electronic version of your book. And you could ask your relative whether she'd let you do the same with her writing.

SeanDSchaffer

02-23-2006, 03:18 AM

A question arises within me, about PA and what they're trying to do to authors around the world.

Several, actually.

1.) Why do they not allow their authors out of a contract when they ask?

2.) Why do they keep books regardless of how well they sell?

3.) Why does PA refuse to do any marketing?

4.) Why does PA allow for the horribly bad press they have received over the last several years?

Okay, I'll leave the questions at those four.

I am beginning to think that the principals at PA want more than just money, here. How many posters here remember the statement about Mr. Clopper wanting to ruin as many authors' careers as possible, since he himself is a failed author?

I'm thinking maybe the answer to all four questions has to do with that simple statement.

I've noticed how long and drawn out these PA threads are. They're filled with people talking about the evils of PA. People talking about PA, who could be spending their time writing and making their careers better.

This is not a rebuke, nor is it an admonition. What it is, is an observation. I'm thinking that Mr. Clopper might be enjoying threads like this one, because in these threads, writers are not writing about what they love. Rather, they are writing about PA, which keeps them from making better headway into their writing careers.

Does anyone see where I'm going with this? I'm thinking that the PA principals are enjoying watching us talking about them instead of moving on with our lives. I think it brings them some kind of perverse pleasure to see people working on anti-PA stuff instead of what we really want to put out there.

This is not to say this thread is not useful, because this thread is very useful. The information on threads like these are highly important to people who are searching for a reason to either sign or not sign with a company like PA. Also, a thread like this is a good place for many PA'ers--like myself, about this same time last year--to land when trying to flee from that company.

But I think in my own life, what I need to do is go back to the love of my life: writing Fantasy. I think it's time for me to set the PA issue aside--though not completely as it is an interesting topic that has to do with me--for the time being and focus on my work. I have been focusing on PA so long and so hard that I think PA and its principals get enormous satisfaction from watching me berate them here on this thread, as well as others like it around the 'Net.

So I will be leaving this thread for quite a while, although I do intend to keep up on it and occasionally post here for the sake of giving any pertinent information about PA that I can. I have decided that I have fed PA's ego enough, and am going to do what I intended to do ever since I was a child.

I hope you'll all forgive me for a very long post, but I think it was necessary to write.

Mods--if you find that this post is in any way OT, I will completely understand your porting it over to the Overflow. I just needed to get this out of my system and I didn't know really where to put it except the first thread I came to when I discovered AW.

I hope you all have a great evening, and a wonderful rest-of-the-week.

Sincerely,

Sean D. Schaffer

James D. Macdonald

02-23-2006, 03:25 AM

1.) Why do they not allow their authors out of a contract when they ask?

2.) Why do they keep books regardless of how well they sell?

3.) Why does PA refuse to do any marketing?

4.) Why does PA allow for the horribly bad press they have received over the last several years?

1. They're hoping that the author will break down and buy his/her own books.

2. They're standing by for the author to buy more books. Doesn't cost them anything to do it.

3. If they do no marketing for a title, the author and the author's family and friends will buy the books. If they market the heck out of a title the author and the author's family and friends will buy the books. They'll have spent money with no increase in income to show for it.

4. They don't have a choice.

TracySutterer & GaryRogers

02-23-2006, 03:52 AM

Well, for the last few weeks I have been staring my mortality dead in the eye. That prompted me to write the e-mail below to Ms. Miranda Prather:

Dear Ms. Prather,

On December 10, 2005 I suffered a heart attack and was in the hospital for four days. Subsequently, I had a Stent placed in one of the arteries of my heart, and was in the hospital for one day. Since those occurrences, I have suffered a mild stroke which has left the left side of my body extremely weak. The only saving grace that I have been blessed with, is the fact that Tracy Sutterer has been by my side throughout the occurrences, and has made my life bearable. She is a great and loyal woman. In addition, I still have the use of my fingers, so I can type.

While I was in the emergency room - and the doctors were working to save my life, my mind focused on my memoir. It would have been a damn shame if I had expired from the heart attack, and my book would have still lingered in cyberspace for another five years - not reaching the audience that it was written for. At the time of this writing, twenty individuals have purchased my memoir - and the reviews have been good. However, due to PublishAmerica’s business marketing plan - my memoir is locked out of conventional distribution channels offered by other publishing houses.

I hereby request that PublishAmerica release me from the remainder of my publishing contract, due to poor sales. I make this request, so that I may rewrite my memoir and solicit the services of a reputable literary agent - who can then market the revised memoir to other publishing houses that incorporate a strong marketing department and viable distribution channels.

At fifty-one, and since I already have suffered a heart attack and stroke - I do not know how much time I have left on this earth. I would sincerely enjoy having my memoir published and distributed nationally & internationally - while I am still alive. I desire a clean and unencumbered release from the remaining time that is enforced in my present contract with PublishAmerica. A simple “PublishAmerica hereby releases Argile Stox from the remainder of his contract,” will suffice. Nothing fancy - No Clauses - No Restrictions. A plain and simple termination of my present contract with PublishAmerica, will be in the best interests of all concerned. Please advise as to your decision.

Argile Stox

Well, let’s see how long it will take before PublishAmerica responds to my request. I have a feeling they will ignore it and will conduct business as usual.

Argile Stox

Christine N.

02-23-2006, 04:08 AM

Good for you Sean. I've seen you asking a lot of writing questions lately, and it makes me feel good that PA hasn't got you down.

Willie isn't stopping me - I've written over 20 pages in the last five days. Only four pages a day, but they were good pages.

You take your rest, good soldier, and we'll be here waiting for you when you're ready to come back :)

Sassenach

02-23-2006, 04:27 AM

James D. Macdonald

02-23-2006, 04:31 AM

Saundra Julian

02-23-2006, 04:41 AM

Congratulations, Tracy!!!

Keeping my fingers crossed for you, Argile!

xhouseboy

02-23-2006, 04:49 AM

I do enjoy the way it suddenly twists around to "I'm not out to make money off my books!"...

yes, but you're not out to LOSE money, are you?

It's denial. Loss of control. Deluding oneself into thinking that the control is still there.

The following quotes probably best describe the psychology of those at the forefront of the PA ra-ra team.

WHAT A CON ARTIST LOOKS FOR

IN A SCAM VICTIM

The chosen

Con artists choose you very carefully. They are only interested in those people who can be turned around to believe in them without question. They don't merely seek out the greedy or the weak or the stupid. Not at all. They seek out the needy. They sniff and snuffle around until they find someone who has an unfulfilled desire that even you yourself may be unaware of until the carrot is dangled in front of your face.

Con artists will stalk anyone whose weaknesses or strengths can be used to advantage.

Right from the start

From the very moment a con artist targets you, his entire arsenal of psychological manipulation is brought into play. You are moved from a position of control to one of no control over anything at all. The con artist moves into the position of supreme power, regardless of how powerful you may be in real life.

How can this be? Because you are the only character in the play who hasn't a clue as to what is really happening. No one has given you a script to follow. The only choice given you is to react to what the other players are saying and doing.

Reality is gone, you just doesn't know it - your real world has been completely and effectively replaced with that of the con artist and his cronies. Smoke and mirrors.

Nexusman

02-23-2006, 05:23 AM

Argile... I doubt they can still feel remorse, guilt, or shame.

-Nick

Merricat

02-23-2006, 06:04 AM

We find this on the PAMB...

" I think we must all realize that we tend to join various boards as a means of promotion for our book or books.

I for one have joined countless boards. From time to time I even forget which ones, and am shocked to read that some are PA bashing? I think that none of us should condemn anyone if by accident or ? Is on such a board. However I personally have never bashed PA. If ever a post is made stating otherwise, I would be surprised ,as they could never have any backup.

Like all authors there are always some things we could complain about. Whether a product we bought in a store or a publisher ,we all have some complaints or issues.
However I never forget that PA was the only publisher so far that willingly gave me an opportunity to be published. For that I am eternally grateful. I do mean eternally. Why bash or bite the hand that feeds you? To the bashers I say "Get a Life."

There is far more than monetary gains to this business of writing and being recognized.

Emphasis mine. Uh, so there's a thousand some odd pages of backup, dear.

I don't think she was denying that other PA authors have spoken out against the company. The sentence before the one you highlighted was "However I personally have never bashed PA," so I think she meant that there was no proof she had ever said anything negative about PA, even if she might have joined messageboards labeled as "PA-bashing."

It sounds to me more like she was trying to protect herself from any possible attacks by the PA faithful than anything else.

Jean Marie

02-23-2006, 06:22 AM

Argile, they don't care about your stent.

What will get their attention is a letter from an arbitrator, telling them where and when to show up for another arbitration hearing.

Why are you messing around with these guys?
I completely agree w/ Jim, Argile.

The only thing you will gain from this is more aggravation. Which you do not need.

Are you testing your physical limits?

You certainly cannot be checking PA's moral compass. They have none. Nick already alluded to that.

Argile, PA doesn't give a good damn about you. Plenty more authors behind you.

Heed our words.

NancyMehl

02-23-2006, 06:27 AM

Argile, they don't care about your stent.

What will get their attention is a letter from an arbitrator, telling them where and when to show up for another arbitration hearing.

Why are you messing around with these guys?

Because decent human beings have a tough time accepting the fact that other people are so uncaring.

You're right, Jim, but I think Argile is as bewildered as I am at the cold, calculating attitude expressed by those at the helm of PA.

It's unconscionable.

Nancy

Jean Marie

02-23-2006, 06:44 AM

On the heels of Nancy's comment, I considered comparing the evil trio who run PunishAmerica to aliens. But it seemed awfully cruel and demeaning to the alien community. Besides, I feared Jenna may receive hate mail from them...

ETA: Aliens-the kind from outerspace. In case anyone was/is confused.

Sassenach

02-23-2006, 06:45 AM

You're right, Jim, but I think Argile is as bewildered as I am at the cold, calculating attitude expressed by those at the helm of PA.

Why? It's not exactly news.

Ken Schneider

02-23-2006, 06:49 AM

Argile, I do hope you recover to your former, vibrant, self.

Here's what I sent them. Short and sweet, and I meant every word.

Good day, I would like my print rights returned without any gag orders, or conditions. Isbn 1413734421.

I plan to take other actions if you don't agree.

Thank you,
Author of book support.

I don't know if this e-mail pushed them to send my release, but they did.

NancyMehl

02-23-2006, 07:06 AM

Why? It's not exactly news.

No - it's not news, but that doesn't mean that it still doesn't surprise me. My life is spent around people who all care very much for others. It's hard for me to understand the mindset of people who have no concern for their fellow human beings.

You may think this is crazy, but I've even thought about writing to W. Meiners in an attempt to plead for people like Argile, John Robinson, and Laurel Johnson (among others). There is this naive person who lives inside me that thinks I could appeal to their sense of decency.

Of course I live in Kansas...the Land of Oz! LOL!

Nancy

Gravity

02-23-2006, 07:06 AM

I have a pretty good handle now on how much the bill for Phil's arbitration came to, but does anyone recall how many days he had to spend in Frederick? Just seeing if this is doable (and if it's needed).

John

PS:and Nance, yer sweet for thinking of me! :::smooch:::

Sher2

02-23-2006, 07:21 AM

I have a pretty good handle now on how much the bill for Phil's arbitration came to, but does anyone recall how many days he had to spend in Frederick?
The hearing lasted for 5 hours, so one day. It was a long way to travel for him, however, so it necessitated an overnight stay. Good luck to you if you're going to go for it.

Sassenach

02-23-2006, 07:40 AM

No - it's not news, but that doesn't mean that it still doesn't surprise me. My life is spent around people who all care very much for others. It's hard for me to understand the mindset of people who have no concern for their fellow human beings.

You may think this is crazy, but I've even thought about writing to W. Meiners in an attempt to plead for people like Argile, John Robinson, and Laurel Johnson (among others). There is this naive person who lives inside me that thinks I could appeal to their sense of decency.

Not crazy, but definitely a waste of time. They have no sense of decency, which they've demonstrated repeatedly.

Nexusman

02-23-2006, 07:45 AM

The hearing lasted for 5 hours, so one day. It was a long way to travel for him, however, so it necessitated an overnight stay. Good luck to you if you're going to go for it.

Yeah -- and possibly some of Phil's vacation days, time off of work, or whatever. This is probably why PA even offers an arbitration agreement: some people might simply not be able to afford the time or money.

-Nick

Aconite

02-23-2006, 02:54 PM

The following quotes probably best describe the psychology of those at the forefront of the PA ra-ra team. Good stuff there. Would you mind posting a link to the source, so people can read the whole thing?

AnnaWhite

02-23-2006, 03:03 PM

Well, for the last few weeks I have been staring my mortality dead in the eye. That prompted me to write the e-mail below to Ms. Miranda Prather

I too tried to make contact at the human level with PA. It was utterly lost on them. I have come to the conclusion that, in Gestalt terms, they are totally and utterly desensitised towards their authors.

Which means they only see us as a source of income. Where authors are concerned, they are unable to feel any of the normal human emotions. To them, we are no longer living creatures, we are simply objects.

They may or may not have the same attitude towards their staff and other people. Desensitisation is a nasty business; it can lead people to commit murder. It also makes the desensitised person's life dull and grey. It can sometimes be reversed through psychotherapy, if it's not too ingrained.

Anyway, Argile, I think a short letter pointing out to PA that its treatment of you has been responsible for your current health problems, and that you plan to seek compensation for it through arbitration if they don't return the rights to your book, might be a lot more effective.

Christine N.

02-23-2006, 03:04 PM

Ya know, Merricat, I think you're right. Don't know why I read it the way I did. So, I apologize for the misread. But I stand by the rest of that post :)

spike

02-23-2006, 04:31 PM

Here is the link to the post: http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=11432. There is much more, but I think the following paragraph is telling.

The sad part is that the poster sounds like she can write. It is sad she got caught in PAs web.

Many new authors sign a contract with a publisher without reading it thoroughly. The excitement of being published for the first time is so overwhelming that they ignore the fact that they are signing a binding contract. Later they are shocked that once published they have not become an immediate millionaire. They lose all contact with reality, immediately find fault, and blame with the publisher.

These disappointed authors tend to join various writers boards and then bash their publishers, or complain about the low royalty check they receive. It never occurs to them that the author regardless as to who publishes them always does promotion. Publishers will tend to aid and support any previously famous author who has made money for the publisher, but usually not an unknown.

PA Lurkers: If this is true, why is there no "Never Ending Random House Thread"? Or "HarperCollins Sucks"? Isn't it odd that PublishAmerica attracts so much animosity? Could it be that they really do suck?

PVish

02-23-2006, 04:52 PM

DaveKuzminski

02-23-2006, 05:01 PM

Quoting from above quote from the PAMB:Publishers will tend to aid and support any previously famous author who has made money for the publisher, but usually not an unknown. In PA's case, everyone is an unknown. Consequently, there's no chance for anyone to break out since PA isn't supporting anyone.

spike

02-23-2006, 05:06 PM

Just when you thought you'd seen all the promo ideas, an author comes up with another. (Well, a publishamerica.com bumper sticker would identify who needs our help)

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=11427

Note to this author: If PublishAmerica isn't going to promote its own books, what good does it do for the authors to try to promote them?

Same poster goes on to say:

On this same note, POD is both the state of the art and the historical standard simultaneously.
Writer/publisher Benjamin Franklin printed his work on demand. I wish I could cite a source for you on this one, but I recall seeing a sketch of him printing his newspaper one copy at a time and selling it to the next person in line waiting to get a copy

I love it when they compare PA to someone who lived before commercial publishing was developed! In Franklin's day, most authors also printed their own work on their own presses. Geez, can you stretch any farther to make your point? Can't you come up with an example from this century? Or even the last one?

Roger J Carlson

02-23-2006, 05:18 PM

Which means they only see us as a source of income. Where authors are concerned, they are unable to feel any of the normal human emotions. To them, we are no longer living creatures, we are simply objects."Marks." That's what con-artists call them. To the con-artist a mark is not human, just a source of income. If the con is done right, the mark can be fleeced over and over again. You just have to give them time to grow an new coat.

PA's total disregard for the feelings of their authors is a telling indication that they are, in fact, an elaborate confidence scheme.

Nexusman

02-23-2006, 05:40 PM

Just when you thought you'd seen all the promo ideas, an author comes up with another. (Well, a publishamerica.com bumper sticker would identify who needs our help)

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=11427

Note to this author: If PublishAmerica isn't going to promote its own books, what good does it do for the authors to try to promote them?

Is this guy for real? Looks like he's a one-man PA marketing department. There's so much stuff wrong with his "facts" and other arguements that it's mind-boggling.

On a side note, why is it necessary for one of PA's clients to refer to themself specifically as a "PublishAmerica author" or "PA author?" Do any other writers refer to themselves as "Tor Author" or "Random-House Author" or "Scholastic Author?"

-Nick

Tilly

02-23-2006, 05:44 PM

Hello everyone,

Please allow me to introduce myself. My name is Wilbert F. Quick, I teach various writing courses at Oklahoma State University, and I am the author of Jacy’s Girl. While I have been a published author for some time now, my previous publications have been short stories and college writing text books. I have never had to really market my work other than to speak at a few conferences.

So he doesn't have experience in trade publishing. I sincerely hope he doesn't advocate Publish America in the writing courses he teaches.

With this said, I have been reading your posts for a couple of years and feeling your pain. In fact, I chose not to publish with publishamerica.com initially because of all of the negative information I read on this board. Publishamercia.com had my manuscript for over a year before I decided to sign the contract. So, while I am not the old hand at this that you all must be, I have a take on it from outside looking in that predates many of your experiences here.

He was reluctant initially to go with PA because of the negative information he read on the PA board? It's a shame he didn't get to the negative information posted about PA on the rest of the Internet.

Also, I worked as a Handleman book rep to Target and Service Merchandise for a while, which gives me an idea of what goes on in the book peddling industry. Still, if I am wrong about any of this as it pertains to publishamerica.com, please set me straight.
Let me begin with a question. What would you do if an online retailer, such as amazon.com, offered to sell our books exclusively and no other publisher’s authors would be allowed to compete with us for e-shelf space? You’d probably wet yourself. Right? Well, an online book retailer has made us that offer. Publishamerica.com provided us with this. The problem is, nobody has every heard of them.

Nobody has heard of them because they only market themselves to their authors. They would have to change their entire business model in order to become a commercial publisher.

All we have to do to make our dream come true is to make publishamerica.com as famous as Amazon. To start with, lets all stop calling Publishamerica.com PA. Amazon.com would not have achieved such a status by calling themselves “A”. By the way, I hope you all have a publishamerica.com bumper sticker on your car. If not, I am ashamed of you.

I buy books from Amazon because I've heard of the book and have pretty much made up my mind to buy it. If Amazon had none of the books I wanted, I wouldn't buy from them no matter how famous a retailer they were.

Beyond this, allow me to share with you some facts that every publishamerica.com author needs to consider.

FACT #1
Publish America is in the same plight as the rest of us. They are fighting to gain respect (and a market space) in an ocean of competition that does not want to let them into the game. They do not do the same volume as the big guys, and they do not have the resources to promote themselves so much. I guess you all got the email that we have now paid out a million dollars in royalties? Well, a lot of places pay that out in a week. Right after that email, I got one trying to sell me a large volume of my books at a huge discount and I could not help but see that as a cash flow stabilizer at the semiannual royalty cashout. What you witnessed was a growing pain, but it was also evidence that our house is not getting rich off of our work. (I have read much grumbling to this effect, and the evidence simply is not there to support it. If they were getting rich as some have claimed, the accountant would have run off with the boss’s wife by now.)

PA isn't fighting to gain respect in the commercial publishing industry. They're not a part of that industry. The one million dollars in royalties mean that the authors are making very little money, not that PA is strapped for cash.

FACT #2
I asked over 400 people this week if they had heard of publishamerica.com. Not one of them had. When this changes, the respect we get as publishamerica.com authors will change. If publishamerica.com cannot do this for us, then we have to do it for them. (I don’t think they can. If they could, they would have done it already). Maybe the problem is that I am not a big fan of Jamie “Klinger” Farr and I don’t watch Hollywood Squares (I didn’t even know it was still on. I don’t think it is in this market). However, I have never seen an advertisement for publishamerica.com, and I suppose that must be because they cannot afford it. The problem we must solve is not how to get our books into book stores, but rather it is how to get the name of our market venue (publishamerica.com) into the heads of book buyers so that they can find the shelf that already, virtually as it may be, has our books on it. Someone noted earlier that only 30 percent of books sold are sold on line. That is about a three thousand percent increase from a little over a decade ago. I wonder what percent are sold by b and n. It can’t be much more than that and the number is swinging away from them.

I think this author is trying to make sense of Publish America's business practices. He would find they make perfect sense once you understand its entire business model is to sell books to its own authors. PA does not need to get its books in stores, it doesn't need to promote to the general public. It needs to market to two groups, its own authors and writers who might sign with Publish America.

FACT #3
Just getting your book into a bookstore is not going to make you rich. You have a better chance of winning the lottery. However, if getting our books on a particleboard shelf is what we want, then what we need is to get our house respected enough that the brick and mortars will want our books in their stores. But I must refer you back to FACT #2. If we promote our house properly, the sales will take care of themselves. I feel confident that publishamerica.com would offer our books at a competitive rate (including shipping) once the volume reached a point where it was economically and fiscally feasible. Once volume levels reach that point, it would be foolish of them to do otherwise. (I add this for any conspiracy theorists who might be lurking nearby).

Respect has nothing to do with why Publish America books are not stocked on shelves in brick and mortar stores. It's the bogus return policy, ridiculously short discounts, no vetting of the quality of the books, a lack of real editing, poor cover design, an uncompetitive cover price, and so on. PA chose these policies because they allow them to make the most money from their own authors.

FACT #4
All publishers are POD these days. It’s just that some of them have much bigger Ds. If we want to be successful authors, we must increase the demand for our books. Increasing the visibility of one book and one author (even if it is your book and you) will not do this. We must concentrate our effort on getting the name publishamerica.com into the heads of people who buy books. Be a proud representative of our house.

Commercial publishers may use digital technology in instances where it makes the most sense for them to do so. That doesn't make them print on demand. They don't wait for readers to find out about the book and then print up a copy once they have the money in their hot little hands. They put their books on bookshop shelves where readers can find them. They create the demand for their books by placing the books in front of readers, with attractive covers and realistic price tags.

A special note on fact 4: Have you noticed that it is the vanity presses that keep calling publishamerica.com a vanity press?
No. Where?
And it is these vanity presses that keeping calling publishamerica.com a POD as if it is a bad thing.
Warnings about the drawbacks of PODs that I've read have never come from vanity presses.

This is a logical fallacy. Picture if you will a blue duck trying to tell everyone that a blue elephant is “just like me.” A POD and a vanity press are not the same thing. Remember, a square may be a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square.

On this same note, POD is both the state of the art and the historical standard simultaneously.
Writer/publisher Benjamin Franklin printed his work on demand. I wish I could cite a source for you on this one, but I recall seeing a sketch of him printing his newspaper one copy at a time and selling it to the next person in line waiting to get a copy.

POD technology makes sense financially for short print runs. It doesn't make sense when you're planning to sell a lot of books to the general public.

Similarly, I offer this for encouragement. I have a text book that is being used in college writing classes. It is doing pretty well for a first edition college text. However, you will not find it in any bookstores other than those at the schools.

Why would bookshops sell books that weren't designed to be sold in bookshops?

Amazon doesn’t even carry it. When a school needs more books, the publisher (fountainhead) prints them on demand, boxes them, and sends them out federal express. It takes two to six weeks to complete the order. So, I ask you, does this mean that I am not a real text book author? Maybe this will help. I use books from Prentice Hall in some of my classes, and they all print on demand. So please stop thinking the issue has anything to do with publishamerica.com being a POD. The issue is us doing our part toward earning and demanding respect for our house. If we have doubts about the worth of our house, we sure as heck won’t be able to get anyone else to respect it.

Publish America sells its books to its own authors. I wouldn't have a problem with that if it didn't go out of its way to portray itself as a commercial publisher, and treat its authors like dirt when they asked legitimate questions. I could never respect a company like that. The power to change PA into a commercial publisher resides with its owners, not its authors.

So stop thinking like an individual. You are part of a team. As for getting your books into book stores, start trying to get publishamerica.com into the heads of book buying clientele. True, every publishamerica.com book that finds its way into a bookstore is advertising for the rest of us, and in that light, I am wondering how many of you have walked into barnes and noble and asked them for a publishamerica.com book that wasn’t your own, but the main task at hand for us is building up what we already have, not wishing we had published through b and n.

Published through b and n? Huh?
I'm sure he's sincere. But it isn't going to work.

Sheryl Nantus

02-23-2006, 05:58 PM

I like the idea that, once again, PA authors must take it upon themselves to promote each other by BUYING each other's books.

maybe I'm stupid, but I don't see Harlequin or Tor or Random House authors calling up each other and saying "Hey, buy my book to help promote the company!"

yet again, another example of the pap that PA spews not only over their authors, but their supporters over each other. "Buy my book AND your book!" "Harass the bookstores to carry ALL our books!" "Let's publish a catalog and call it 200 Authors!" and so forth.

PA lurkers - have you EVER heard of this happening with any other company? EVEN with vanity presses that say what they are, up front, like iUniverse and AuthorHouse? Have you EVER seen these authors saying that they need to buy each other's books to "help the company"?

think about it.

rekirts

02-23-2006, 06:40 PM

Good stuff there. Would you mind posting a link to the source, so people can read the whole thing?

I expect it's from this link which I posted in NEPAT Overflow awhile back:
http://www.fraudaid.com/index.htm

Ken Schneider

02-23-2006, 06:51 PM

Well, If Wilber is who he says, he doesn't Goggle worth a crap.

More than likely a rah,rah, Church street poster pushing the troops for free advertisiing.

DaveKuzminski

02-23-2006, 06:54 PM

Tilly

02-23-2006, 07:00 PM

Some folks may disagree with me vehemently, but when individuals try to promote PA by mentioning their background as if that lends legitimacy to their support for PA, I think it is reasonable to write to that institution to let them know what someone is doing to their reputation.

For my own part, I have written to OSU asking if he is one of their instructors.

He's made a mistake going with Publish America. He clearly doesn't understand what they are. What is your goal in contacting his employer? Is it to verify his claims that he teaches writing courses and is the author of textbooks?

DaveKuzminski

02-23-2006, 07:10 PM

spike

02-23-2006, 07:37 PM

I want to know if it's a real person or just another PA implant among their authors trying to further the deception. If OSU finds he's one of their instructors, they're free to do whatever they want. If OSC finds that he's not, then they might want to have a serious talk with PA in a courtroom.

I checked out OSU OKC (where he says he teaches) and he isn't listed as faculty or staff. He could be adjunct, but they usually have an email or voice mail number.

MMo

02-23-2006, 07:49 PM

I checked out OSU OKC (where he says he teaches) and he isn't listed as faculty or staff. He could be adjunct, but they usually have an email or voice mail number.

OSU (Oklahoma State University) is located in Stillwater, Oklahoma. While they have for many years had extension classes in OKC, the University's records will not be there.

Mo

PVish

02-23-2006, 07:55 PM

I checked out OSU OKC (where he says he teaches) and he isn't listed as faculty or staff. He could be adjunct, but they usually have an email or voice mail number.

He should certainly have an email listing so he would be accessible to his students--and that email should be on the OSU site.

Adjunct faculty members should be listed on the faculty roster--or at least on his department's roster. Here's the URL for a list that I googled: www.libarts.ucok.edu/english/ faculty/hochenauer/facultylist.html
However, I couldn't get it to load on my computer.

Here's another site that references him:
http://www.publishedauthors.net/wfquick/news.html
A PA site, no less.

DaveKuzminski

02-23-2006, 07:57 PM

A source has provided me with information regarding Mr. Quick. He is an adjunct instructor in their humanities department at the OSU Oklahoma City campus.

spike

02-23-2006, 08:04 PM

OSU (Oklahoma State University) is located in Stillwater, Oklahoma. While they have for many years had extension classes in OKC, the University's records will not be there.

Mo

Didn't know that. The OSU OKC web site has a faculty list on it, so I assumed it was a second campus.

Sheryl Nantus

02-23-2006, 08:14 PM

and now he's getting responses like "Now I'll go down to my B&N and order a PA book there, instead of ordering it online!"

this could be a rather enlightening experience for those involved... when they have to not only pay in advance for an overpriced, unedited tome by another PA author and then wait 2-6 weeks for it to arrive, if ever...

hey, lurkers - think about it - B&N is NOT going to suddenly stock PA books on their shelves because you special-order in one or two books. Why should they? Especially with a "returnable" policy that loses the bookstore money as well as mocks the entire industry.

and why, WHY do you think that B&N (or any reputable bookstore) is suddenly going to say "Hey, I've got orders for PA books! Let's order in a stack of titles that we have no demand for and probably won't sell and can't return without losing money!"

riddle me that, Mr. Quick... and the rest of you PA authors racing blindly to B&N to order each other's books.

rekirts

02-23-2006, 08:18 PM

Here's another site that references him:
http://www.publishedauthors.net/wfquick/news.html
A PA site, no less.

It says he was honored for his ongoing efforts to help his students get their writing published. No doubt a noble cause, but he's a PA supporter. Think of the implications. Very disturbing. :(

MMo

02-23-2006, 08:25 PM

Didn't know that. The OSU OKC web site has a faculty list on it, so I assumed it was a second campus.

Okay -- I'm speaking from memory. When I lived in OKC (mumbledy) years ago, OSU had an extension campus in a former OKC school building. Just as the main campus has grown, I suspect the OKC campus has too. Sorry...

Mo

spike

02-23-2006, 08:27 PM

Okay -- I'm speaking from memory. When I lived in OKC (mumbledy) years ago, OSU had an extension campus in a former OKC school building. Just as the main campus has grown, I suspect the OKC campus has too. Sorry...

Mo

Don't appologize. I've been to OK 5 times and never left Tulsa. OKC campus has a web site that would make any college proud. I was just going by the web site

spike

02-23-2006, 08:29 PM

It says he was honored for his ongoing efforts to help his students get their writing published. No doubt a noble cause, but he's a PA supporter. Think of the implications. Very disturbing. :(

Ok, first that is a Community College Newspaper.

But that answers my question above. The article says he co-authored the book. The publisher doesn't list his name. So I guess that is legit.

Gabriele

02-23-2006, 08:31 PM

He's made a mistake going with Publish America. He clearly doesn't understand what they are. What is your goal in contacting his employer? Is it to verify his claims that he teaches writing courses and is the author of textbooks?

To make sure he won't advertise PA in his courses.

DaveKuzminski

02-23-2006, 08:34 PM

The article states he works for three colleges and with one high school. The implications are serious for the number of individuals he might funnel to PA in the belief that he's helping them achieve something. In my mind, he's trying to garner further recognition for himself and might not care if anyone gets victimized.

This is every bit as disturbing as the individual who obtained permission to teach a course at another college a year or two ago and stated in a post in the PA forum that he intended to recommend PA to all his students.

Sassenach

02-23-2006, 08:35 PM

Poor Wilbert F. Quick...

When was the last time you went into a bookstore to buy a Random House or Tor or Penguin or [fill in the blanks]? That's never, right?

I Googled Wilbert and found his Geocities home page. His other novel was printed by iUniverse, his text by a new outfit called Fountainhead Press, which appears to be POD. FWIW, there's no mention of teaching at OK State on his bio.

rekirts

02-23-2006, 08:43 PM

Poor Wilbert F. Quick...

When was the last time you went into a bookstore to buy a Random House or Tor or Penguin or [fill in the blanks]? That's never, right?

Exactly! I've gone into bookstores to buy, say, a Patrick O'Brian or Dick Francis, or any number of books by any number of authors old and new, but I couldn't tell you who the publishers were.

James D. Macdonald

02-23-2006, 09:23 PM

Some of the later posts come perilously close to attacking an author.

Sheryl Nantus

02-23-2006, 10:07 PM

the problem here is that everyone at PA is trying to re-invent the square wheel.

there's a REASON why PA books aren't in bookstores - and no, it's not the conspiracy theory that you tell each other about how PA is "breaking new ground" and all that tripe...

and you're not going to increase the number from 0 to 1 in your local B&N by racing in every few weeks to order another PA book that you feel obliged to order 'cause you're one of "them".

Maddog

02-23-2006, 10:14 PM

POD vs. POD (kinda like SPY vs. SPY)

An excellent posted message. I might add that we should also stop using POD in conversations because it also stands for Publish On Demand [a company publishes a book if you pay them big bucks]. We probably need to spell out the POD initials when selling PublishAmerica.com, i.e., PublishAmerica.com is a Print On Demand [a company that does not charge an arm and a leg to publish a book - - - as PublishAmerica.com has stated over and over - - - an author published by the company doesn't have to pay PublishAmerica anything].

NancyMehl

02-23-2006, 10:34 PM

As many PA authors are getting release letters, a question pops up. Why is PA citing Para 17 now instead of their old standby, Para 24?

Para 24 puts the blame on the book's lack of future sales. Para 17 blames the lack of promotion by the author for the release of the contract.

My release was based on Para 24. I wonder if ole' Victor found a reason to switch their excuse? And I wonder if it's based on something that should be looked at a little more closely?

They have definitely gone a different direction - and I think they're afraid of future lawsuits and/or arbitration after losing to Phil Dolan.

One thing that's clear, Para 17 puts the blame on the author while Para 24 could be open to debate - especially when compared to all the authors who aren't selling anything and still can't get PA to release them.

Nancy

James D. Macdonald

02-23-2006, 10:35 PM

...as PublishAmerica.com has stated over and over - - - an author published by the company doesn't have to pay PublishAmerica anything

The authors don't have to, but they demonstrably do. Wasn't the last set of quotes from the PAMB an author urging his compatriots to do just that?

See also the latest set of posts in the Great Debate (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Debate/index.php?showtopic=4&st=15) elsewhere on the web.

As to the POD vs. POD question: Print On Demand and Publish On Demand are exactly synonymous. There is no difference between them.

For a lighter look at POD vs. POD, check out my own Frederick Townhouse Story (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9169&page=10&pp=25).

DaveKuzminski

02-23-2006, 10:43 PM

As many PA authors are getting release letters, a question pops up. Why is PA citing Para 17 now instead of their old standby, Para 24?

Para 24 puts the blame on the book's lack of future sales. Para 17 blames the lack of promotion by the author for the release of the contract.

Probably someone has threatened to sue based on the company failing to get books into stores by means that are available to other publishers, namely having a catalog and a sales team. Of course, PA knows their books still wouldn't get in 99.99 percent of the time because of the level of selectivity and editing in their operation. Failing to do that would still leave the burden on PA in a court battle.

Personally, I don't think Paragraph 17 would succeed any better in a court defense, but it will probably convince more authors that they're to blame and not PA leaving fewer anxious to file suit.

akaa1a

02-23-2006, 11:33 PM

Well, if they use paragraph 24 that means that they, as a "publisher" accepted a manuscript that failed because it was taken on by "PA professionals" that made a major business gaff...like accepting Atlanta Nights. They look like they have no clue what they are doing as well as taking anything that has black ink and a title.

By blaming the author using paragraph 17, PA continues its legacy as a "your fault, your funeral" type of business to make themselves out to be the vicitm of a lazy and uninspired author. There may also be a tax advantage to proving evidence of a failed product...ie, get their expenses as a tax deduction for printing a book whose author didn't live up to their contractual agreement for marketing and distribution to bookstores.

*******************
"Poor, poor us (PA)! We gave this ungrateful author the chance they so deeply deserved and look at what they did to us! They wouldn't take the initiative to help with sales on a product that we, as publishing professionals, deemed saleable and stuck our financial necks out to spell-check, photo-shop, and print....Oh, the humanity!"

Strychnine and bagels anyone? HAHA:e2chain:

xhouseboy

02-23-2006, 11:41 PM

[a company publishes a book if you pay them big bucks].

Nor real publishers - Vanity Publishers.

But as PA does not charge a penny to publish authors' books, in the hope that their authors will then buy in bulk from them - as many do - does that make those customers Vanity Authors?

Sassenach

02-23-2006, 11:47 PM

Kevin Yarbrough

02-24-2006, 12:14 AM

Hear that sound, Sassenach? That is a cop pounding at your front door claiming deceptive practice while PA claims fraud and wire fraud. Offer the cop a donut and maybe he will go away.

Seriously though, that is what I did and that is what happened to me. A cop showed up at my house. I don't think they are dumb enough to try it again but I just thought I would give you a little FYI, just in case.

DeePower

02-24-2006, 12:20 AM

I can't divulge the names since it was sent to me in confidence. Three more authors have received letters from PA releasing them.

Now here's the odd part. Two of the letters don't refer to any paragraphs in the contract. They simply state something to the effect

You asked to be released from your PA contract for the book XXXXXX. We are returning the rights to you effective today.

Go figure.

Dee

DaveKuzminski

02-24-2006, 12:25 AM

I can't divulge the names since it was sent to me in confidence. Three more authors have received letters from PA releasing them.

Please ask them to email me with the verification that they were released. Their names won't be used, but it will make the PA statistics more accurate if we have all the cases noted.

Something tells me that the results of the second arbitration hearing were just as devastating to PA as Phil's was. At this rate, PA should be back down to 1,000 happy authors in about two weeks' time. :)

Kevin Yarbrough

02-24-2006, 12:33 AM

One person over at Mindsight was released as well, Dee & Dave.

Makes you wonder if they are fearing more arbitration cases or if there is another reason.

Sher2

02-24-2006, 12:50 AM

Because I had nothing better to do, I submitted my query for "My Lil Dog Named Speck" to PA a few days ago. I'm proud to announce that it's been accepted!

I'll bet they were sold by the powerful first graf:

This is all about a dog I got who almost died but I helped save his life even though the docters said he wojld probably die because he was so skinny and sick and stuff.

Or was it my author bio?

Rita lives in Gatlinburg where she has lived for 22 years since she got married to her husband Ray. Her hoobies are writting about dogs and collecting dog statues like the Precious Moments ones.

They want to know more about me, Rita Manque.
Bwhahahahaha! Hoobie-hoobie! :hooray: Lord have mercy. The sad thing is, nobody around here will be a bit surprised that your book is going to get the chance it deserves. It will resonate with skinny puppies across the rotting plains, from sea to polluted sea, and fit every pound in Iceland like a glove. Um, what are you gonna do with your dollar? :roll:

Gabriele

02-24-2006, 12:52 AM

akaa1a

02-24-2006, 01:01 AM

Maybe they found out that a table has become available for three by the 1x2 grated window at Leavenworth mess hall!:e2stooges

Maybe arbitrators have a newsletter that list the cases heard and resolved. Perhaps PA is the slam-dunk they all dream about.:e2Order: "listen up...big news!

Maybe their creditors or vendors are pulling the plug citing questionable business practices.:cry:

Maybe what's happening at PA is shining a spotlight on the workings of the state of Maryland and questions are being asked as to why this has been going on so long. :e2drown:

Maybe there's been a power shift and Jessica is now in charge.:whip:

Maybe it's the seven-year itch, sleep deprivation, or simply an oversight....
but it's beginning to look like the Tetter-Totter of Truth is becoming a little heavier on the author's end!

:e2seesaw: (Authors are the angels by the way!)

xhouseboy

02-24-2006, 01:09 AM

Because I had nothing better to do, I submitted my query for "My Lil Dog Named Speck" to PA a few days ago. I'm proud to announce that it's been accepted!

I'll bet they were sold by the powerful first graf:

This is all about a dog I got who almost died but I helped save his life even though the docters said he wojld probably die because he was so skinny and sick and stuff.

Or was it my author bio?

Rita lives in Gatlinburg where she has lived for 22 years since she got married to her husband Ray. Her hoobies are writting about dogs and collecting dog statues like the Precious Moments ones.

They want to know more about me, Rita Manque.

They're obviously banking on the probability that you'll buy squillions of copies in memory of your pooch, and also persuade other family members to do likewise.

BTW, forgot to add - congratulations, way to go, you're the man, and all that.

Christine N.

02-24-2006, 01:15 AM

Maybe it's because it's time to tie up loose ends and fly away in that hel-i-o-copter. If they release a bunch of unhappies, less of a chance people will have the urge to track him down?

astonwest

02-24-2006, 01:40 AM

Perhaps they're looking for some additional financing in the wake of the arbitration and EB losses and need to dump some potential liability...

One can dream.

Martin J Ross

02-24-2006, 01:57 AM

Perhaps they're looking for some additional financing in the wake of the arbitration and EB losses and need to dump some potential liability...

One can dream.

Maybe someone has managed to have PA compelled to do everything that they implied to get people to sign.

That would make them want to get rid of as many unhappy customers as possible.

:)

Lady of Prose

02-24-2006, 02:44 AM

Amidst all the fun speculations, can anyone tell me if the releases are going to those who just recently requested them (again)--to both old and new request, or random, or all of the above?

P.S. Congratulations to all those who got their releases.

AnnaWhite

02-24-2006, 02:48 AM

There's a new story, by Lori, on True Stories about PublishAmerica (http://www.wizardessbooks.com/html/PA_stories.htm). It starts from way back in 1999, when PublishAmerica was Erica House. It's the story of a brave and wonderful lady who put in a huge amount of effort, spending a load of money, to promote her book, only to be treated with PA's 'tone' letters.

:e2steer:

Sparhawk

02-24-2006, 02:52 AM

I wonder, how many of the newly freed from bondage authors are high profile anti- PA activists. I would venture to guess that all of them, including the newest three have been the loudest anti-Publish America activists.

I don't think that this is the beginning of a mass exodus, just another game being played in order to create false hopes and frustrate those still in bondage.

Consider this: Tracy got the rights back to all her books, Argile Stox was clearly the loudest of the two against Publish America. Why not give Argile his one book back and quiet him down. Releasing Tracy only rubs it in Argiles face and may perhaps cause some friction between them (Thinking like a PA exec.) What better way to further frustrate Argile then by ignoring his impassioned pleas and releasing Tracy.

Also, I have nothing but the highest respect and esteem for both Argile and Tracy, I just use them for an example to point out a possibility. Dissension and envy are plausible weapons.

Also those that have been freed have come here sharing thier happiness with those of us still imprisoned, thereby increasing the hope and anticipation that there'll be a package in the mailbox for everyone of PA's disgruntled unhappy authors.

Again, I am delighted for anyone who gets released and has their book back. Do I want the same for myslef? Of course. Am I going to cry sour grapes? F No!! I'm glad as hek for them. But a scheming mind at a certain publishing company may see things a bit different. A scheming mind may see this all as a simple way to create a hubbub and build expectation only to simply refrain from releasing others no matter how loudly one protests. Look at how were actively anticipating more releases, trying to understand the motives behind PA for this action. Maybe this is just what they want, maybe their reading this forum over at Fortress Frederick and sharing a good laugh about it.

Who knows? Just a thought to consider. We've said that Publish America never does anything that isn't to thier benefit. I wonder what they're really up to.

I'd like to beleive that they've decided to release several unhappy people, I'd like to beleive that the defeats in arbitration have them rattled. I just look at the whole picture and don't see it fitting the Publish America paradigm. When you have an opponent cut and bleeding, they come out swinging harder and faster. I still beleive PA has a few cards yet to play. They've been teflon for awhile and aren't going to let a few defeats sour the milk from their cash cow.

Hey, I could be totally wrong, maybe I'm just too suspicious/paranoid. But everything is done for a reason and I'd like to know what the real reason behind these releases are.

roach

02-24-2006, 02:57 AM

Another possibility occurs to me. Could PA be releasing some people so that Infocenter can cow any upset posters with, "Those bashers were disgruntled ex-authors. We released them because they were negative energy that we don't need around here. Is that what you want? We can cut you loose just as easily and then you'll lose your precious status of 'published author'."

postshy

02-24-2006, 03:05 AM

Maybe PA just want to dump the authors and continue selling their books without having to pay one cent of royalties. Congrats, folks, but I for one am not buying into their little game. I shall continue to shout from the housetops whether they release me or not. Love your post, Sassenach!

postshy/Roberta

Nexusman

02-24-2006, 04:10 AM

"Is that what you want? We can cut you loose just as easily and then you'll lose your precious status of 'published author'."

I don't think PA has any more authority to grant the title of "Published Author" any more than I have the authority to grant the title of "Licensed Doctor." And I assure you -- I know very little about medicine.

-Nick

straightshooter

02-24-2006, 04:24 AM

Welcome to the NEPAT, Part II.

This thread is for discussing the business practices of PublishAmerica, a so-called "traditional" publisher located in Frederick, Maryland.

Please keep the comments on-topic, truthful, and helpful.

I want to thank everyone here and the other 1 million + individuals for posting warnings about PA. After completing my second book (the first one was self published) I awaited a response from PA. The victory was not sweet, as I had already been alerted by the time they offered me a contract.

I have spent the past 10 days in an amusing (and insulting) ping pong game of email between myself and aquisitions/ editor-Bonnie, who must think I am a moron. I pressed her for answers about price of my book to PA's buy back policy. Her responses are 'non answers'. I have hit the question into her court - each time, a little more forcefully. Each response is more insulting than the last. I really think she is of the opinion that if she ignores the questions long enough, I'll just give in and sign the contract.

This has worked on others???? amazing! anyway - I just wanted to say thanks - you all helped me dodge the PA bullet.

Nexusman

02-24-2006, 04:38 AM

Welcome to the place of the burned, the almost-burned, the onlookers, the parolees, and the warriors. Any insight you can give us with your e-mail dialogue would be appreciated.

-Nick

roach

02-24-2006, 04:54 AM

I don't think PA has any more authority to grant the title of "Published Author" any more than I have the authority to grant the title of "Licensed Doctor." And I assure you -- I know very little about medicine.

You and I both know that, but thousands of PA authors don't. It's apparent every time a poster at the PAMB prefaces questions with "Not that I'm bashing PA, and I'm thankful that they gave me a chance to realize my dream of being a published author, but..." that there's some serious fear going on over there. This could just be yet another way they use to control the masses.

crosseyed reader

02-24-2006, 05:39 AM

Nexusman

02-24-2006, 05:47 AM

Oh my. This guy has it all so wrong it makes my eyes bleed.

I'm not going to stop someone in the middle of the street to jot down an ISBN and website off their t-shirt because the back looked interesting.

-Nick

Saundra Julian

02-24-2006, 05:51 AM

triceretops

02-24-2006, 06:08 AM

Didn't the new policy change for including those books online involve something like an additional $50? I seem to remember that back a ways.

Tri

crosseyed reader

02-24-2006, 06:16 AM

Some folks may disagree with me vehemently, but when individuals try to promote PA by mentioning their background as if that lends legitimacy to their support for PA, I think it is reasonable to write to that institution to let them know what someone is doing to their reputation.

For my own part, I have written to OSU asking if he is one of their instructors.

Why? What's your goal? He didn't commit any crime. He mentions his background to legitimize his work, not his printer. How is contacting their workplace reasonable? To me, this smacks of stalking, and if I were OSU, I'd look at you as a wingnut. You don't like his printer but you're going after him on a personal level. Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but isn't it this printer who is in the crosshairs on this forum and not the authors?

Memphis Ed

02-24-2006, 06:43 AM

James D. Macdonald

02-24-2006, 08:09 AM

A scheming mind may see this all as a simple way to create a hubbub and build expectation only to simply refrain from releasing others no matter how loudly one protests.

Those others should step smartly to the telephone and call the American Arbitration Association (http://www.adr.org/).

It isn't the case that PA has all the cards and can toy with you on a whim. They can be held accountable.

I'm told that Phil's award easily covered his travel and lodging costs.

spike

02-24-2006, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by DaveKuzminski
Some folks may disagree with me vehemently, but when individuals try to promote PA by mentioning their background as if that lends legitimacy to their support for PA, I think it is reasonable to write to that institution to let them know what someone is doing to their reputation.

For my own part, I have written to OSU asking if he is one of their instructors.
Why? What's your goal? He didn't commit any crime. He mentions his background to legitimize his work, not his printer. How is contacting their workplace reasonable? To me, this smacks of stalking, and if I were OSU, I'd look at you as a wingnut. You don't like his printer but you're going after him on a personal level. Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but isn't it this printer who is in the crosshairs on this forum and not the authors?

PA attracts unsavory wanna-be authors, also. Cancer boy was the most recent, and HB was one of the first that I ran into. These people do more harm to PAs authors than PA does.

While I don't like attacking the authors (most are victims), if one puts themselves on display as an authority, they should be able to take the scrutiny it invites.

JennaGlatzer

02-24-2006, 09:04 AM

Gravity

02-24-2006, 09:41 AM

A smart person said that she checked the PA board and noticed that her book is no longer listed for sale-- which means, she hopes, that her release is on its way. She suggested that I should post to tell others to check PA's search to see if their books are gone, too.

Pretty neat!

Hot dog! I checked the site and mine's gone too! Could it be...? Oh, be still my racing heart (which ain't a bad title for a cheesy romance novel, by the way).

John

Lady of Prose

02-24-2006, 10:18 AM

Pretty neat!

I thought of that right away...went to check several times, still there.

I just don't get it. I'll continue as my lawyer has advised. Another
arbitration in the works. They are not going to like what they have to do for me.

James D. Macdonald

02-24-2006, 10:30 AM

While I don't like attacking the authors (most are victims), if one puts themselves on display as an authority, they should be able to take the scrutiny it invites.

I am one of those who disagrees vehemently with the practice.

SeanDSchaffer

02-24-2006, 10:47 AM

I said I wouldn't be here all that much, and I meant it. But seeing all this talk about contract releases made me think maybe it's time to post about this.

I have not been released as of yet. But that does not mean things are not going anywhere for me. I am beginning to understand that PA is concerned about its pocketbook. So, I have quit advertising my book entirely, and I'm sure PA knows this by now, although I have not directly told them yet. I am expecting a response shortly from them concerning an email I sent on Tuesday. If I find that I have to respond to it, I'll be sure to tell them then.

If I find, however, that this stupidity goes on much longer, I'll be sure to inform them in a proper, contractual way.

And I have a curiosity:

My contract is the 2003 contract. I have not found it as of yet, but I have been having trouble reading lately. Is there a clause in the 2003 contract that states that PA is the only entity that can rescind the said contract?

AnnaWhite

02-24-2006, 01:12 PM

Didn't I hear the on-line book sellers (Amazon, B&N, etc., etc.) were going to raise their rates for the books displayed on their sites?

Maybe this is why PA is dumping books and authors...
After all, that is part of the contract... (to promote PA books on-line)
Good one, Saundra, that sure does make sense.

A smart person said that she checked the PA board and noticed that her book is no longer listed for sale-- which means, she hopes, that her release is on its way. She suggested that I should post to tell others to check PA's search to see if their books are gone, too.
Gah, mine is still there:cry:

Though I guess arbitration may be better than a release, since then I'd receive compensation money on top of having my printing rights back :D

Lady of Prose

02-24-2006, 01:17 PM

Good one, Saundra, that sure does make sense.

Gah, mine is still there:cry:

Though I guess arbitration may be better than a release, since then I'd receive compensation money on top of having my printing rights back :D

I'll take the release--but you can bet your bippy if I go to arbitration, they will pay. :D :D

aruna

02-24-2006, 02:53 PM

spike

02-24-2006, 03:02 PM

I am one of those who disagrees vehemently with the practice.

You're just a nicer guy than I am.

I'm not just talking PA authors, though. Anyone who puts themselves forward as an expert on the internet deserves to have their bono fides checked. Just my opinion.

xhouseboy

02-24-2006, 03:15 PM

Lucia, Lori's story on your site is an eye-opener. For PA lurkers who may not have read it, I'd like to quote:

This new promotion said that not only did we authors get a discount, but we also would get royalties on the books we ordered! Great! I shelled out another $900 dollars. Then guess what? I didn’t get paid the royalties for those books. (I hardly sold any books at the book faire, either, and those boxes are still sitting in my garage.) I think my next royalty check was for a dollar and change. I was outraged. I emailed author support, and was ignored for three months. I sent a total of seven emails over three months, and then I finally heard back from PA. They told me to stop harassing them. I made a stink on the message board about not receiving the royalties due me, and they deleted my posts. There was also the infamous post where PA called its authors "zoo animals." I blew up. More of my posts were deleted.

Good God.

$900, and didn't receive the royalties as promised. Blatant misleading advertising. Taking money from clients under false pretences.

Then more or less telling the wronged party to ****-off when a complaint is lodged - we've got your money, we don't need anything else from you.

Zoo Animals? Honestly, it would've been all anyone could do to stop me driving up to that place and insisting they repeat that face-to-face.

But wait, I'm forgetting - there's an Angel missing from heaven, and she works at PA dealing with book-covers or some such nonsense - according to someone on the PAMB not that long ago.

A fallen Angel - more like.

Toni1953

02-24-2006, 03:58 PM

I heard some of the PA authors got their rights back because PA thought they did not generate enough sales. Hopefully mine will be next on that list!

Which begs the question: Once you get your rights back for your PA book, can you then submit the manuscript to another publisher/agent? would they even want to look at it? Or is it better to just take it, retool it and rename it, and start the submission process all over again?

Inquiring minds want to know....

PVish

02-24-2006, 04:53 PM

Sher2

02-24-2006, 06:09 PM

From the PAMB
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=11427&start=15

The mind boggles. I'll leave it for others to explain why this idea will never fly. Or even flap a wing.
Alas, it's going to take a couple of royalty periods for these naive people to realize that the postage it took to mail the contract and the dollar is the extent of the "investment" PA is going to make in any author. After that, if they continue to believe PA is interested in "author support/success," they're just tilting at windmills.

mreddin

02-24-2006, 06:43 PM

From the PAMB
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=11427&start=15

What I think would be a neat idea is if PublishAmerica considered having their own brick and mortar stores. I realize that this would be a big investment and a huge undertaking for them, but I think it would lead to a lot more success for them as a company, and really make people aware of them, as you say, not just as a publisher but as a book seller as well. Could you imagine if ultimately there was a nationwide chain of PublishAmerica stores? I think there could be a lot of money to be made for our publisher and its authors.

The mind boggles. I'll leave it for others to explain why this idea will never fly. Or even flap a wing.

First off, according to the ABA (American Booksellers Association), the average profit margin for the "successful" independant bookstore is 2%. The margins are likely better with the big chain stores like B&N that can take advantage of "special" discounts. However, the secret to any bookstore's success is carrying books that people actually want to buy. I don't mean to be pejorative, but PA author's are unknown. Consumers are not likely to walk into a bookstore that carries nothing but unknown authors at inordinately expensive prices. Even if PA sold the books at a discount, you would be hard pressed to generate store visits given the difficulties many bookstores face now given the slow decline in reading habits of Americans.

You must also face the fact that PA books are unvetted. Since there is no quality control, you run the risk of filling a bookstore with unsaleable titles. Furthermore, the books do not conform to the expectations of the average book consumer. Readers expect the books they buy to be properly edited with professional covers, something PA books lack.

If PA established itself as a reputable publisher with a large stable of productive authors that put out compelling titles that people wanted to read, the idea might fly. However, PA would need to revamp their business practices and become a real publisher first. Once they do, readers will begin to want to read PA titles (for that matter, readers will actually learn that PA even exists).

PA books are only going to achieve sales when PA assumes the role of a real publisher. However, PA has not given any indication that they desire to sell your books to the reading public. It is far more profitable for them to sell your own books to you, the author.

Mike

Nexusman

02-24-2006, 06:58 PM

I can imagine the PA bookstore now: Some guy sitting at a kiosk in the mall with a computer and a fast printer. "I'll have your book printed up for you just as soon as you pay for it. What do you mean you want to look through it first?"

-Nick

rekirts

02-24-2006, 07:18 PM

I think it's a great idea. They could call their new chain of bookstores The Slush Pile.

James D. Macdonald

02-24-2006, 07:50 PM

I think it's a great idea. They could call their new chain of bookstores The Slush Pile.

And their motto could be "All of the books you've never heard of, none of the books you want."

Or, "Our books may be unedited, but at least they're expensive."

Why would anyone ever go into such a bookstore? When you're a reader, going into a bookstore, is the first thought in your mind "I want to give a new writer a chance"?

Didn't think so.

Saundra Julian

02-24-2006, 08:00 PM

Well, shoot, our book is still listed at PA, but our rankings on Amazon are way over 2,000,000!

Fair Warning...anyone who orders that book on-line is dead meat!

Nexusman

02-24-2006, 08:12 PM

Why would anyone ever go into such a bookstore?

Possibly to ask directions to a reputable bookstore?

-Nick

orraloon

02-24-2006, 08:30 PM

My congratulations to all authors recently released from PA's clutches. You can now relax, spruce up your baby and submit to a REAL publisher. I wondered whether we Brits might have a case for discrimination since we don't qualify to have our books made returnable!

Meanwhile my twice-yearly parole request to Jessica, copy to Victor Cratella (thanks for the tip, Dee) seems to have failed to resonate - again.

22.02.06 Subject: Termination of Contract Request
Dear Jessica Lewis,

A Drifter's Legacy. ISBN 1-59286-903-3. Published June 2003

Other than my own purchase of fifty copies of my book in 2003 your records will confirm that very few copies of A Drifter's Legacy have been purchased over the years - none at all in actual bookshops "from sea to shining sea." Indeed I have been actively engaged in engendering negative publicity since I realised at an early date that PublishAmerica had no intention of giving my book the chance it deserved but were engaged in effectively discouraging bookshop sales.

I am again requesting termination of my contract, in accordance with paragraph 24 (but without the unethical non-disparagement clause), with all rights reverting back to the author.

In the years since my book was "published" many disturbing facts about PublishAmerica and the brutal treatment of its authors have become public knowledge, with disillusioned US victims now lining up to take their disputes against your company to arbitration following Phil Dolan's success. The recent ruling in favour of Encyclopaedia Britannica for bringing their name into disrepute adds weight to the mounting feeling of optimism felt by UK author victims in their joint efforts to seek legal redress for unfulfilled promises and false advertising.

Please give my request your urgent attention.

Yours sincerely,

Eddie Bruce.

Ed's Stories (http://adrifterslegacy.co.uk/)

orraloon

02-24-2006, 08:33 PM

Was it something I said? I could have sworn Jessica and I had a thing going on.

23.02.06 Subject Eddie Bruce: False Statements
Dear Mr. Bruce,

We must deny your request to terminate your contract. If your claim is
correct, and you have indeed been pursuing "negative publicity", we'd
rather see that you continue doing so. Partly as a result of your efforts,
our ranks have grown by approximately 10,000 new authors.

What was intended to be a "bash PA" campaign to highlight the frivolous
grievances of a very few has turned into an overwhelmingly positive media
exposure of the only traditional publishing company that offers an
opportunity to thousands upon thousands of new authors at no cost to them,
without expecting anything back from them in return.

Consequently, we have seen the number of authors who submit their books to
us skyrocket, more than 125 opportunity seeking new authors each day,
forcing us to expand our staff even further. This year alone, we expect to
be reviewing more than 30,000 submissions, more than any other publisher.
We are the fastest growing traditional publisher in the world.

We thank you for helping these new authors find the only traditional
publisher in the world who would give them an opportunity to realize their
book dreams at no cost to them in any way whatsoever. Almost all of them
are very happy with the results.

As for the litigation "issues" that you mentioned, they are non-existent,
and your conclusions couldn't be further from the truth. It appears that
you are very sadly misinformed.

>>engaged in effectively discouraging bookshop sales

We will either expect your apology, or an explanation. This is so false as
to be comedic. All publishers love bookstore placement, though only a small
percentage of new books ever see a bookstore shelf.

>>the unethical non-disparagement clause

Please consult a lawyer before making false statements like this. He/she
will tell you that such clauses are very standard.

>>many disturbing facts about PublishAmerica
>>and the brutal treatment of its authors have
>>become public knowledge

What you say here is false, as our 17,000 happy authors would certainly
attest. We will either expect your apology, or an explanation.

>>disillusioned US victims now lining up to take
>>their disputes against your company to arbitration

What you say here is false. No such thing is happening at all. There have
been no such cases except only one, the outcome of which parties are under
orders not to disclose.

>>The recently ruling in favour of
>>Encyclopaedia Britannica

What you say here is false. There was no court case and no such ruling at
all. The matter was amicably settled out of court, as is very common in our
society.

>>UK author victims in their joint efforts
>>to seek legal redress

What you say here is false. There is no such "effort" at all, let alone any
"joint effort".

>>unfulfilled promises and false advertising.

What you say here is false, as our 17,000 happy authors would certainly
attest. We will either expect your apology, or an explanation. Please list
the "promises" that you think we made and the "false advertising".

Perhaps you have visited a group that has long ago lost credibility, and it
would appear that they are rarely taken seriously. We've seen them mocked
many times. They are very small with very little traffic and even less
influence. Fortunately, few people take them seriously, and we rarely hear
their name mentioned from any of our 17,000 happily contracted authors or
the thousands of prospective authors with whom we are routinely in contact.
These consist of thousands of professional people, including lawyers,
doctors, and professors, plus many previously published authors and
celebrities.

Thank You,
Author Support Team
Support@PublishAmerica.com