Newbie :o)

BeautifulTraviata said:

I'm new here and I just thought I should introduce myself to the group, since I feel weird about participating unless I do. I'm just starting to write my first novel, which I'm not even going to begin to worry about it getting published until it's completely finished (I mean, rewritten, edited, and changed 50+ times). I'm having a bunch of doubts that it will ever be published, but I'm not going to let it bother me, right now I'm just focused on writing it well and putting thought into the plot. It's becoming a bit of a hobby. So, there is my introduction.

I have a question that someone might be able to help me with. How are you organizing your draft plot? I have just been writing it out like a short story with little or no description (just to get down my main ideas and where I want the story to go), but I notice I have been wanting to change my plot so often, my notebook is becoming nothing but scratched out scribbles and side notes. I know there has to be a more organized way to do it then this. Any suggestions?

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There really isn't any more organized way, honestly. On the very (very) rare occasions that I plot something out, the notebook tends to be a long and rambling mess of half-notes, pieces of dialogue, sections where it looks like someone else tried to organize things (but was just me being lucid) and large Mountain Dew stains. Usually with the word "DAMN!" written next to it.

Nothing wrong with trying to write out your plot as a short story, methinks. Sometimes I'll have an idea bouncing around that I'll write out as a short story, only to revisit it later and realize it's a novel, after looking at it in different light. In those cases, the short story is just sort of a testing ground.

I had a friend, once upon a time (it was very nice ) who would plot by opening a blank word processor screen and just typing as fast as he could everything he could think about his story. He would essentially just plow through it, "telling" everything instead of showing, explaining what happens in a scene in a sentence rather than a scene, using no dialogue, or indeed even punctuation (when he was in the groove, he sometimes didn't use paragraphs, which was a bit cruel to the eyes). Then, he would organize it and go from there.

M'self, I don't like plotting or outlining...but I think it's one of those things where it's a preference, and it varies pretty wildly.

Welcome to the forums! Remember not to feed or pet anyone here. Some of themwilliamhaskinsbite, but it rarely hurts too bad. At any rate, it doesn't scar too often.

to plot or not

I would say whatever works for you... I get the basics down and then let the story and characters take me where they want to go.

Howdy. From my own experience: Much organizing is an excellent way to keep yourself busy with writing-related stuff without actually having to do any writing. Don't get me wrong: organizing is handy, but it can become an end instead of a means. Four years from now, you could have a gorgeously drafted plot and 100 words written in your story.

Some stages of writing are messy. Accepting that lets you move on with the writing part instead of getting stuck trying to tidy those bits over and over.

Most of what I've done is in my head. when I get a really good idea, I jot it down and find a way to make it work later. Then I'll write out what I believe to be the finished piece or chapter in my note-pad. After that I sit down and type what I've written while revising the hell out of it.

So far, that is working for me.

Personally, I am a HUGE fan of outlining. In my own writing it helps me to keep the direction clean. *Less re-writes* Problems arise when you spend too much time on the outline.



I use a Word document and use bullet points to tell the whole story. This step is not about the “details.”

Example:

· This happens

· Then this happens

· Then this major thing happens



Sometimes I don’t know where it’s going at a certain point so I’ll write “need action here to get me to some other point.” Some things come naturally as the story unfolds.

When I write a chapter I take that original bullet point(s) and make it the header of the page and make a short outline of the chapter.

I hope this helps!

I must respectfully voice a counterpoint to the "excessive organization beforehand is just a waste of time, get it written" opinion. For some people, organizing everything before beginning is not an indulgence - it is a necessity.

I absolutely cannot finish so much as a short story unless I have index cards written out detailing every scene, even some details of setting and character that I know I want to put into each scene, etc. Then, when I have everything organized on index cards with absolutely no blank spaces or question marks, I spew out a near letter-perfect first draft in an obscenely short amount of time.

I developed this system because I have almost no patience for rewriting. So I do the "rewriting" beforehand: throwing out cards as I realize that scene doesn't belong, reading them over and over until, by the time I sit down to write, I am more transcribing a story that is already playing out in cinematic detail in my head than creating a story there on the paper.

I admit this is extreme. But before I adopted this method, in ten years I wrote about a thousand first drafts that were not remotely salable, and not one second draft. I find rewriting to be nearly impossible, unless it is a directed rewrite at someone else's command. Once my words are on paper they just "sound right" to me. So if I don't get it darn near right the first time I'm pretty much helpless until some external person firmly directs me with an order such as, "change it so the guy gets the girl in the end" or "take out all the swear words." Experience as a freelance copywriter has made me very "directable," but I absolutely cannot rewrite my own stuff. Don't know why.

The good side is, that whole thing of "the story just went in a direction I couldn't forsee and set me back three months" thing? Never happens to me. All the chaos and creativity goes into my index cards. By the time I'm writing actual copy, the story has "settled" into what it's going to be for all time. Sure, sometimes I waste my time setting up a series of scenes on cards that turns out to be completely useless, and have to throw out the cards and make all new ones, but it takes a lot less time to summarize a scene on a card than it does to grope for just the perfect prose to describe it in your draft.

This isn't to say that I don't get some interesting surprises as I write my draft, but they're more along the lines of, "Wow, I didn't realize these two characters were attracted to each other so strongly" or "Wow, I didn't realize this guy was so funny" than "Wow, I don't think this plot is going to work, I'd better think up a new ending."

That said - the technique that works for you is the technique that results in finished, salable manuscripts. If this is your first novel, there is absolutely no way you can know what technique that is yet. I suggest you read Jack Bickham's book on writing short stories (if it's still in print) if you want to understand the way I write my novels and short stories, but there are a thousand other books on other techniques to get novels and short stories written, as well. Just keep trying things until you find one that works (i.e. gets the project finished).

Everyone here has provided some good ideas for you so I'll just add to what they said.

The important thing to remember is that what works for one writer doesn't necessarily work for another. I've gone through much trial and error until I figured that a combo of a loose outline and flexibility of spontaneous plot works for me. If I go outside the plotline, I just go with the flow and see where it leads. Something like a novel I tend to outline a little more to see me through to the end then I replot as need be.

Try out all the suggestions above. Only you know what works. Good luck! And welcome to AW!!!!

Don't do outlines. Figure out the basic (i.e. destination aka plot), hop in the car, put your characters behind the wheel and see how they want to get to where they are going.

Maddwriter said:

Everyone here has provided some good ideas for you so I'll just add to what they said.

The important thing to remember is that what works for one writer doesn't necessarily work for another. I've gone through much trial and error until I figured that a combo of a loose outline and flexibility of spontaneous plot works for me. If I go outside the plotline, I just go with the flow and see where it leads. Something like a novel I tend to outline a little more to see me through to the end then I replot as need be.

Try out all the suggestions above. Only you know what works. Good luck! And welcome to AW!!!!

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Maddwriter is right. Every writer is different and different things work for them.

I just wrote down who the characters are. A little bit about themselves etc, etc., I write down what the whole plot is, what the big and important parts are going to have. Sometimes, I'll scribble some stuff on the margins like side-notes. Sometimes, when I'm in bed, about to go to sleep, I'll try to play a little movie in my head about what's going to happen in a scene. Sometimes, if I really like it, I'll scribble it down somewhere so I don't forget it.

But that's how I do it. If you want to see what kind of planning works out for you like outlining, just sit and think what you need. Have fun with your writing!

Run the race.

Cross the finish line.

Nothing else matters.

Run the race.

Cross the finish line.

Then the hard part starts.

caw.

travNastee said:

Don't do outlines. Figure out the basic (i.e. destination aka plot), hop in the car, put your characters behind the wheel and see how they want to get to where they are going.

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As said in more detail above, outlines can be very beneficial to some people. Do one if it helps you finish the book. Not if it's a way of procrastinating.

If you're going to go the route of planning things out beforehand, I highly recommend this book:

Writing the Short Story: A Hands-On Program

I use it to write novels, as well. Even if you decide not to follow his program to the letter, it will do wonders at helping you figure out what sort of information YOU personally need to know before you sit down to write, and what the benefits are of doing things... well... my way.

I recommend trying to write at least one piece of short fiction by this method, no matter how much you think it isn't for you (that's what I thought). If it doesn't turn out to be the best short story you've ever written, then feel free to try another method. I was skeptical at first until I tried it - once I saw the difference in the efficiency, precision, and richness of my writing, I never looked back.

If I ever sat down and did an outline, that pen or keyboard would be out the window. I need to just write. Let the characters take me where they want to go. Sometimes it ends up a dead-end and I let the story sit for awhile. Or I get hold of another one of the characters, or start another scene, and go from there. Sometimes I'm surprised and and will write for at least an hour non-stop. Then, at some point, I write down on a piece of paper (or open a new word doc.) the names of the characters, basic characteristics (so that later I don't have to reread through the ms. to find out who had the freckles or the weird laugh), maybe a few other key notes, like where someone lived, the name of the road, or whatever. But no, no outline.

But that's the way I am. See how everyone is different? Do what feels most comfortable, but write!

BeautifulTraviata said:

I really appreciate the thought you all put into your replies. I think that the "just dive into" thing really isn't going to work for me (I think my novel would be a very long and full of random scenes and irrelevant dialogue), but hopefully I will be able to do that successfully someday. Right now, I need some direction before I actually start writing.

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I tried to 'just start writing' a few times, and got nowhere. Armed with an outline, I was much more successful. I'm one of those people that need to know where I'm going when I write.

However, I've made changes to the outline since starting - the middle of my story wasn't strong enough from the original outline - so it's not like you can't change where you're going or how you're going to get there, even if you're writing from an outline.

sirensix said:

As said in more detail above, outlines can be very beneficial to some people. Do one if it helps you finish the book. Not if it's a way of procrastinating.

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Sorry, perhaps I should have specificed "I don't do outlines." Wasn't meant as a slight against anyone else's preferences.

But I've found I use them as a procrastination tool.

*sigh*

Please note that I did not say to throw all planning out the window and just dive in. What I said was that spending excessive amounts of time refining and refining and refining the planning stages is a way of not actually writing. Some stages of writing are necessarily messy. Spending a lot of time making them tidy instead of moving past them is one of the ways writers put off getting the thing written.

It's impossible to say "All Writers Do Outlines" or "All Writers Are Revolted by Outlines." I mean, you can't even consistently say that about the same writer.

I dislike and mistrust outlining and plotting, and yet if I find myself stuck on a project and I have to outline/plot to get my way out, you can count on the fact that I'm going to do it without hesitating.

Do what you do, s'long as it works.