Help needed on beggining my first Novel

J. R. Ewing · Jan 8, 2006

OK I've got my plot what I want to write about. I know were I want it go. I've done my research so as to make the story realistic.

Now I need to know how to start it? The end of my story the main Character dies, but i've been toying with the idea of starting with my main characters death and then the rest of the story taking place during his dying reflections of his life. Is this a good way to begin a Novel? Or is there no real good or bad ways as such?

PeeDee · Jan 8, 2006

There are no good and bad ways, per se, but there are better and worse ways.

Apart from the end of your story, which may completely change when you get there (which is fine, really,) do you have any other scenes in your head? When you think of your story, what do you picture? Is there something that comes to your mind when you think of it?

Write that. Then go from there.

SpookyWriter · Jan 8, 2006

PeeDee, you are so kind and consider to offer up these tidbits. Remember all new novelists will be back a couple hundred times with other questions, seeking advice and exploring their worst fears with us. Sometimes I think by encouraging people to write we find a source of continuous alackaday and remedies we can offer to keep these poor souls suffering for a while longer.

Are we closet masochist?

Jon

PeeDee · Jan 8, 2006

I am kind. I am considerate. I am having trouble getting through doors, what with this big ego and all.

I like new writers. I always loved writing, but the thing that set me off like a shot when I was young was suddenly realizing that all these books I loved were written by people who also loved writing. I was flabbergasted. I couldn't spell flabbergasted yet, but that was definitely what I was.

So, open invitation right here. Any new writer can PM me, e-mail me, post here, and I'll give all sorts of biased advice that, properly ignored, will lead you on the path of peace, prosperity, et cetera.

And if you're a closet masochist, does that mean you keep yourself locked in the closet?

If so, I guess I'm not.

StoryG27 · Jan 8, 2006

SpookyWriter said:
Are we closet masochist?

Closet???

As for the beginning of the story, PeeDee is right. There's no right and wrong. I, as a reader, don't like to have the climax in the beginning and have the rest of the story lead up to a point I already know is a certainty. Authors have done this with success, but I personally don't like it. If I know the MC will die, I won't invest my emotions in the character. Also, who wants to deal with hours of foreplay when they've already experienced the climax? Not me. That's just frustrating. That is just IMHO though.

SpookyWriter · Jan 8, 2006

Neophyte -- Into the brave world they'll step forward, warily, without a care of the dangers which await. We closest to them open our closet doors and show skeletons of past failures, so they, these children -- avoid similar pitfalls.

loquax · Jan 8, 2006

PeeDee, how many words should there be in a chapter? Mine are close to 3240 each, but my friend says they should be around 5310. Thanx

...

All sarcasm aside, J.R. Ewing: you should stop worrying about these things and start writing. Don't worry if it's rubbish, you can fix that later. Just jump in there. Write your favourite early scene. Then when you've finished your first draft, go back and see if you need to shift the start-line a little. That is all, peace out.

SpookyWriter · Jan 8, 2006

storygirl said:
Closet???

My thoughts are that some writers get a certain perverse satisfaction when they encounter the struggles a new writer. Maybe a small segment of the writing community needs these new recruits to stimulate their own desires, express their own fears through the experiences of inexperienced writers, and derive a certain amount of stimuli whenever they can nurture a fledgling writer?

These writers could exist?

Jon

PeeDee · Jan 8, 2006

SpookyWriter said:
Neophyte -- Into the brave world they'll step forward, warily, without a care of the dangers which await. We closest to them open our closet doors and show skeletons of past failures, so they, these children -- avoid similar pitfalls.

Unless they're like the rest of us, and then the children go "Dem some fine bones to play with." And they write stories for each skeleton in every closet.

Storygirl is spot on. It is entirely possible to start your story with the climax and then go back in time and write your way to it. I don't enjoy it. I can still enjoy the whole story, but there's the black spot in my mind saying "Well, yes, I dont' know how and why he died...but he died...and I still have a hundred more pages of text to read...so he's in no danger in this tension-fraught scene."

Be honest with your reader, tell them the truth (which is very important to do, most especially in fiction).

Also, when you start writing your story, pay attention to what you're writing. Are you having to recap a lot? Is it dragging? Either one means you're starting in the wrong place. If you have to recap events that happened in order to make sense of the scene we're in now...just back up and write it from the scene you're recapping. If you don't like it, then you're given this magic red marker in the editing stage. If it's dragging, figure out what you're "building" toward, then cut your building and get to it.

veinglory · Jan 8, 2006

My rather unfortunate habit is to start wherever I feel and after I've finished I go back and throw away the first chapter so it starts at the interesting part instead.

blacbird · Jan 8, 2006

If you're not sure about how to begin your novel, don't. What I mean is, don't begin at the beginning. Start somewhere else. Write scenes you know, or at least believe, will be essential to the book. No rule says you have to start with Word 1 and write straight through to Word 100,000. Some writers do that, others don't. If you have already outlined the plot, however sketchily, pick someplace later that you feel more certain about, and go write. Chances are your beginning will come more naturally if you already have stuff to follow, and in any case, chances are good you'll fuss over the beginning later anyway.

I know, because I'm horrible at beginnings.

Oh . . . and stop treatin' that ol' Cliff fella so nasty.

caw.

PeeDee · Jan 8, 2006

loquax said:
PeeDee, how many words should there be in a chapter? Mine are close to 3240 each, but my friend says they should be around 5310. Thanx

You're both wrong. You need exactly 4320.375 words to each chapter. No more, no less, or you won't get published.

(P.S. loquax is a slightly sarcastic and cynical person.

)

SpookyWriter · Jan 8, 2006

See, everyone is encouraging the new writer how and where to begin writing the story which is some vague ideas and maybe a plot. Hasn't anyone stopped for a moment to think "Don't do this because it is painful, lots of anxiety, and you're not guaranteed the work will ever be published."

StoryG27 · Jan 8, 2006

PeeDee said:
(P.S. loquax is a slightly sarcastic and cynical person. )

StoryG27 · Jan 8, 2006

SpookyWriter said:
See, everyone is encouraging the new writer how and where to begin writing the story which is some vague ideas and maybe a plot. Hasn't anyone stopped for a moment to think "Don't do this because it is painful, lots of anxiety, and you're not guaranteed the work will ever be published."

Misery loves company. Write you newbies, I said write! :whip:

Muwhahahahaha! Join me, revel in the pain, the anxiety, and the uncertainty!

PeeDee · Jan 8, 2006

SpookyWriter said:
Hasn't anyone stopped for a moment to think "Don't do this because it is painful, lots of anxiety, and you're not guaranteed the work will ever be published."

well, sure. I think that daily. I summarize it by thinking "I could be playing video games." But the point is to keep on writing. You do it for the love. It's like working hard at a marriage, even though it's not easy and it might just wind up in divorce. You work at it anyway.

I will not sing "All You Need is Love" quite yet, though.

loquax · Jan 8, 2006

Thanx PeeDee, lol, I knew he was wrong. Anyway, I had this really good idea of changing the font that my bad guy speaks in to this font called "halloween" which I downloaded off the internet. Would you say this is a good idea? I think it would emphasise his evility.

J. R. Ewing · Jan 8, 2006

storygirl said:
Closet???

As for the beginning of the story, PeeDee is right. There's no right and wrong. I, as a reader, don't like to have the climax in the beginning and have the rest of the story lead up to a point I already know is a certainty. Authors have done this with success, but I personally don't like it. If I know the MC will die, I won't invest my emotions in the character. Also, who wants to deal with hours of foreplay when they've already experienced the climax? Not me. That's just frustrating. That is just IMHO though.

The mystery of my story comes from the climatic ending though. So would this keep your interest in the Novel.

sirensix · Jan 8, 2006

loquax said:
I had this really good idea of changing the font that my bad guy speaks in to this font called "halloween" which I downloaded off the internet. Would you say this is a good idea? I think it would emphasise his evility.

I would recommend against it. Better ways to let your reader know someone is evil:

1. Have him say things aloud about inflicting pain upon various helpless innocents, then laugh loudly.
2. Give him a goatee, or at the very least, a mustache.
3. Be sure you remember how to correctly spell "mustache" (I don't).
4. Make sure he makes lots of long speeches about how and why no one can stop him. (IMPORTANT: make sure he can be stopped.)
5. He must have a pale complexion. No evil people visit tanning salons. Ever.
6. These days, he almost certainly has to be a smoker. Nonsmokers are never evil.
7. Have someone exclaim his name in a hushed, shocked tone upon seeing him. Alternately, just "You!" will do. In either case, he must reply in the affirmative.
8. Make sure he utters at least three of the following sentences in the course of your story:

"Well, if it isn't [hero name]."
"You have no idea what you're dealing with."
"You think you can stop me?"
"Fool(s)!"
"It's no use."
"You're too late."
"[prized object/person] is mine now."
"You'll pay for this!"

Hope this helps.

sirensix · Jan 8, 2006

J. R. Ewing said:
The mystery of my story comes from the climatic ending though. So would this keep your interest in the Novel.

Yes, there are two basic ways to create suspense.

1. What happens?

2. How the HECK did THIS happen??

Sounds like you are aiming for # 2.

J. R. Ewing · Jan 8, 2006

PeeDee said:
Unless they're like the rest of us, and then the children go "Dem some fine bones to play with." And they write stories for each skeleton in every closet.

Storygirl is spot on. It is entirely possible to start your story with the climax and then go back in time and write your way to it. I don't enjoy it. I can still enjoy the whole story, but there's the black spot in my mind saying "Well, yes, I dont' know how and why he died...but he died...and I still have a hundred more pages of text to read...so he's in no danger in this tension-fraught scene."

Well to be upfront with you the main character is only there for the story. The plot itself is what I want the readers get feelings for, so the death of the main character will only be to add a darkness to the overall story.

sirensix · Jan 8, 2006

Furthermore, sometimes there's a different sort of tension in a scene where there seems to be only one way it can end, but you know it can't possibly end that way (such as with the character's death). If you know a character survives a scene where he's been locked inside a safe and thrown overboard in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, darn skippy you're going to keep reading just to find out how the heck...

J. R. Ewing · Jan 8, 2006

SpookyWriter said:
See, everyone is encouraging the new writer how and where to begin writing the story which is some vague ideas and maybe a plot. Hasn't anyone stopped for a moment to think "Don't do this because it is painful, lots of anxiety, and you're not guaranteed the work will ever be published."

I'm not interested in getting published. Don't get me wrong if I get it finished and I like it; I am my own worst critic, then i'll give that road a drive. I've always wanted to write a Novel for personal reasons. It used to be a childhood ambition but I got side tracked, first by beer, then girls, then drugs (nothing too heavy though,) then just wasted years and now at 33 i've decided this is it, this is the time, now or never. I don't care if it takes 2 weeks or 2 years or 2 decades, I want to do it.

So i'm going to hound you lot for advice, inspiration and encouragement until its completed.

SpookyWriter · Jan 8, 2006

J. R. Ewing said:
I'm not interested in getting published. Don't get me wrong if I get it finished and I like it; I am my own worst critic, then i'll give that road a drive. I've always wanted to write a Novel for personal reasons. It used to be a childhood ambition but I got side tracked, first by beer, then girls, then drugs (nothing too heavy though,) then just wasted years and now at 33 i've decided this is it, this is the time, now or never. I don't care if it takes 2 weeks or 2 years or 2 decades, I want to do it.

So i'm going to hound you lot for advice, inspiration and encouragement until its completed.

J.R. Now that's what I call a healthy dose of realism. Good for you! Don't jump into the fray without some expectations. Too many writers pop up on the scene with no sense of reality that this business demands. I think you'll do fine as long as this appreciation for a difficult passion doesn't consume your spirit like it has so many writers in the past. I've encounter many recently who are so bitter that they've lost the one joy which should inspire them to continue.

Best of luck,

Jon

J. R. Ewing · Jan 8, 2006

sirensix said:
Yes, there are two basic ways to create suspense.

1. What happens?

2. How the HECK did THIS happen??

Sounds like you are aiming for # 2.

Yep No. 2 is the one.

Help needed on beggining my first Novel

J. R. Ewing

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

SpookyWriter

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

StoryG27

Miss Behave

SpookyWriter

loquax

I verb nouns adverbly

SpookyWriter

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

veinglory

volitare nequeo

blacbird

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

SpookyWriter

StoryG27

Miss Behave

StoryG27

Miss Behave

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

loquax

I verb nouns adverbly

J. R. Ewing

sirensix

Mediocre Sorceress

sirensix

Mediocre Sorceress

J. R. Ewing

sirensix

Mediocre Sorceress

J. R. Ewing

SpookyWriter

J. R. Ewing