Agents thoughts on pub with a small press

It might just be me, but I tend to think people who go with small press are the people who just want their stuff out there. And I've read others say that agents are laughing at indie authors and small press authors because they all "play fame" and get big-headed when no one actually knows them.

I could be wrong, though. Just throwing it out there. I think if you ever intend on getting into the big game, you need to have some massive patience and a ridiculously thick skin until you get in.

good sales increase your chances.

Bad sales decrease your chances.

A fantastic book will *likely* be taken on by an agent regardless of your past publishing experience (or lack thereof.)

Mr. Anonymous said:

good sales increase your chances.

Bad sales decrease your chances.

Click to expand...

^ THIS.

or yeah, what they said. They likely know better than me LOL

I've wondered about this myself. I published a couple of books with modest success, but mostly because I didn't have a promotional machine behind it.

I counted it to a good experience, learning a lot about the business in the meantime. I would think that the only bad publishing experience to list would be to list anything self-published that didn't do squat.

It is really all about the work you are now offering them.
If you've been edited before then it will be slightly reassuring to the agent that you won't have a hissy fit if they ask for changes.
You may be asked to adopt a pen name to distance your current work from the small press books.

I would have to strongly disagree that agents sit and laugh at indie presses. First it is a business. Does Emeril laugh at Mickey Ds? No. There have been plenty of indie authors that have made it to the big time. Agents and editors are always on the lookout for the next big thing. Even if it comes from small press or epublishing.

Squinkies said:

I would have to strongly disagree that agents sit and laugh at indie presses. First it is a business. Does Emeril laugh at Mickey Ds? No. There have been plenty of indie authors that have made it to the big time. Agents and editors are always on the lookout for the next big thing. Even if it comes from small press or epublishing.

Click to expand...

Most agents and editors aren't interested in already published books unless the sales numbers huge.

Most agents and editors don't give a rat's patootie about credits with micropresses because they don't know micropresses and therefore don't know which ones are good and which arent.

I heard a Very Big Name agent speak not long ago, and she said that putting micropress credits in your bio is essentially pointless; it won't necessarily hurt you, but it won't help, either. So that's a pretty good answer to the OP's question of whether it lowers or raises an agent's respect as one submits future work: neither one.

No, agents usually do not want "second hand" stuff. But the notion that they sit and say, "John Doe was published through Sevred press..." laugh laugh laugh is dumb. Like you said, they are too busy to know of the micropresses so how can they laugh and disregard what they don't know?

It also depends on the "small press".

Samhain, for example, has had books on the USA Today best-sellers list. But for all intents and purposes it's still viewed as a "small press", I believe.

Not all small presses are the same. A one-person operation that can stall if the owner catches a cold is very different from one with many employees.

Just a thought.

I've seen quite a few friends/acquaintances publish through small press or self-publish to modest success, then get a bigger publisher deal later for another book. It's about the prospects of the next book -- if it's appealing to larger publishers, it will appeal to larger publishers.

Poor sales affect later deals, but I think that pertains more to apples to apples situation. If you have a major publisher book sells 200 copies despite lots of support, it will be hard to sell the next one. If you have a self-published or small press book that sells that many, I certainly hope that an agent, editor, or bookstore will understand that another book with distribution and marketing might do better.

What an agent may do, is google the book and see what the reviews say and how the author handles the reviews -- if at all. More to see if the author is someone the agent wants to do business with. If he/she is a drama llama that goes off on any neutral or bad review, that's going to count against them.

I think it would also depend on the quality of the small press book. If it's bad story telling, or has lots of grammar/spelling/continuity errors -- that might make an agent pause to wonder if it's worth taking on a client that has a history of sloppy work.

However, if the new book that the agent is considering is stellar -- that might not matter so much.

Sheryl Nantus said:

It also depends on the "small press".

Samhain, for example, has had books on the USA Today best-sellers list. But for all intents and purposes it's still viewed as a "small press", I believe.

Not all small presses are the same. A one-person operation that can stall if the owner catches a cold is very different from one with many employees.

Just a thought.

Click to expand...

Yes. All of this.

There's a difference between saying 'this has been published with a small press' and saying 'I have other books published with a small press'. As was stated upstream, you may be asked to change your pen name to distance yourself from that as you start off with a brand new 'brand name'.

I have every intention of doing this as some of my work I have a very strong suspicion that it will not sell to the big 6. And what I want to get published is niche and I believe it would be better served with a publisher that handles it, which happens to be smaller presses.

The stuff that I'm writing for broader appeal will be shopped under a different name to differentiate between the two. If an agent wants to scoff at me for doing so... probably not someone I want to work with anyway.

dreamwriting said:

About the agents laughing at small presses, I recently saw something online where a popular agent compared indies to a youtube video where people were being made fun of for thinking they were as good as the pros. That's what brought up the question for me. While I like to believe most agents aren't like that, I'm thinking there are the few who do and I started thinking twice about going the indie route.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure if by indie you mean small press or self-pub, but instead of thinking twice about going that route if you've already done your homework and think its the best route for *this* book, I would think twice about about ever going with that agent. An agent who blanket makes fun of indies (whether it is small press or self-publishers) is an agent who is not one who treats others with respect. And I wouldn't trust that agent to treat others with the proper level of respect necessary for doing business.

However, I do agree with what others say. I wouldn't go with a small press or self-publish route with a book in hopes of getting enough attention to get that book republished by the commercial NY houses. If your ultimate goal is to get that book with NY houses, then submit to them instead.

Jodi

My experience is a bit different. I've worked with two agents and neither ever dissed me for going small press. In my niche market, agents are familiar with the smaller presses out there, and though the sales numbers will never knock their socks off, they've not tut-tutted about my sales.

Indie and small press publishing aren't the same, and any agent who seems to think or say they are should be (gently, civilly, professionally) re-educated. That said, this industry is changing and going through panic-spasms about how to think about independent publishing. There is a lot of fear out there in pub land and agency land, because nobody really knows how this business is going to look even two years from now.

Deb Kinnard said:

Indie and small press publishing aren't the same

Click to expand...

Now I'm confused.

What exactly is Indie publishing?

Indie is independent. Self-publishing
Small Press is just that. A small publishing press.
(or so I've understood)

And I agree with ios. If an agent can't respect one, why would he/she respect anyone else? I think all agents know how hard it is for writers to become the authors we want with the big companies and won't really shoot down people - unless someone is playing all high and mighty fame and I'm-better-than-you-because-I-know-what-I'm-doing-more-than-an-editor-or-publisher. I think I would laugh at that person, too...but that could just mean I'm a terrible person deep down. Or something.

^ This. Yes.

authorilinca said:

Indie is independent. Self-publishing
Small Press is just that. A small publishing press.
(or so I've understood)

Click to expand...

Disagree STRONGLY. "Indie" publishing was a term long before self-publishers attempted to co-opt it, and it has - in the parlance I've always seen - referred to publishers who were independent of the Big 6.

This includes places like Samhain and Tanglewood and Entangled. It also includes places like Sourcebooks and Kensington.

Self-published means self-published. That's not a good or a bad thing, but it bothers me when people try to co-opt terms they think are more flattering.

^ ah well, see, I haven't seen that explanation! Ya learn something new every day ;-)

RKLipman said:

Disagree STRONGLY. "Indie" publishing was a term long before self-publishers attempted to co-opt it, and it has - in the parlance I've always seen - referred to publishers who were independent of the Big 6.

This includes places like Samhain and Tanglewood and Entangled. It also includes places like Sourcebooks and Kensington.

Self-published means self-published. That's not a good or a bad thing, but it bothers me when people try to co-opt terms they think are more flattering.

Click to expand...

You are quite correct, of course, but I am afraid the ship has sailed on getting pissed off about this word usage.

(It won't stop me from continually getting pissed off about it anyway! But I also still rail against the non-word "relatable" which is so much in use in common parlance, that it is now a word. *KILLS*)

The term I'm beginning to loathe is "traditional" publishing. Er, no. If it's a book, my view is that it's published. E- or print, both fine, both are books. My rant and I'm stickin' to it.

RKLipman said:

Disagree STRONGLY. "Indie" publishing was a term long before self-publishers attempted to co-opt it, and it has - in the parlance I've always seen - referred to publishers who were independent of the Big 6.

This includes places like Samhain and Tanglewood and Entangled. It also includes places like Sourcebooks and Kensington.

Self-published means self-published. That's not a good or a bad thing, but it bothers me when people try to co-opt terms they think are more flattering.

Click to expand...

QFT. Indie publishing is not necessarily small press, in just the same way that self-published does not automatically mean e-published.

Jennifer_Laughran said:

You are quite correct, of course, but I am afraid the ship has sailed on getting pissed off about this word usage.

(It won't stop me from continually getting pissed off about it anyway! But I also still rail against the non-word "relatable" which is so much in use in common parlance, that it is now a word. *KILLS*)

Click to expand...

Irregardless. That's all I have to say about word rants.

Deb Kinnard said:

The term I'm beginning to loathe is "traditional" publishing. Er, no. If it's a book, my view is that it's published. E- or print, both fine, both are books. My rant and I'm stickin' to it.

Click to expand...

True again, but the distinction between published and self-published does have to be preserved. For everyone other than a handful of authors in the past few years, self-publishing does not lead to pots and pots of sales.

I have an agent, and I work with several agents as a publisher, who've submitted their authors' work to me with nary a qualm or quiver about the small, independent press we are. The publishing industry is changing, and it's changing very, very fast. I seriously doubt there's an agent anywhere who's sitting back and laughing at the small press publishing history of any author.