Is Santa a big, mean bully???

really? *holds belly and laughs* (at the article...not the OP).

He is kind of a dick in that one.

WTF, Vince, no poll?

.....oooookay.

My initial response is a big - WTF?

And then I laughed.

I understand what the guy is saying, but it doesn't work. At least not for me.

No, but he's a dirty commie. Just look at his suit.

I actually did a blog post last year about this, partly tongue in cheek, but not really:

"I noticed on TV yesterday the networks got a jump on Christmas, airing something about Christmas from Rockefeller Center, How The Grinch Stole Christmas, and Burl Ives narrating the story of Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer.

Which made me think. Rudolph is one of our beloved children's Christmas songs, sung to tiny tots ad nauseam. But to me, it's a horrible song, antithetical to the Christmas spirit, and, as they say, sending the wrong message to kids. Think about it.

First, you have poor Rudolph:

All of the other reindeer
Used to laugh and call him names;
They never let poor Rudolph
Join in any reindeer games.

In other words, Rudolph, who is different, in fact, physically deformed in the eyes of the other children, is mercilessly mocked and excluded by his peers. Nice going, Dasher et al.

But wait! An emergency arises. And now Rudolph suddenly becomes useful, and saves the day.

Then how the reindeer loved him.

Indeed. Now that he's of use, everybody wants to be his friend. But if not for that foggy night, he would have continued to be an outsider and the butt of cruel jokes. But he's the same Rudolph he always was, is he not? Where was the compassion of those other reindeer before that night? Did any of them even try to get to know him?

The moral here is clear: You shouldn't mock others for their supposed afflictions -- not because it's cruel and heartless, but simply because someday they may turn out to be useful.

Lots of Dashers and Dancers in this world."

rugcat said:

I actually did a blog post last year about this, partly tongue in cheek, but not really:

"I noticed on TV yesterday the networks got a jump on Christmas, airing something about Christmas from Rockefeller Center, How The Grinch Stole Christmas, and Burl Ives narrating the story of Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer.

Which made me think. Rudolph is one of our beloved children's Christmas songs, sung to tiny tots ad nauseam. But to me, it's a horrible song, antithetical to the Christmas spirit, and, as they say, sending the wrong message to kids. Think about it.

First, you have poor Rudolph:

All of the other reindeer
Used to laugh and call him names;
They never let poor Rudolph
Join in any reindeer games.

In other words, Rudolph, who is different, in fact, physically deformed in the eyes of the other children, is mercilessly mocked and excluded by his peers. Nice going, Dasher et al.

But wait! An emergency arises. And now Rudolph suddenly becomes useful, and saves the day.

Then how the reindeer loved him.

Indeed. Now that he's of use, everybody wants to be his friend. But if not for that foggy night, he would have continued to be an outsider and the butt of cruel jokes. But he's the same Rudolph he always was, is he not? Where was the compassion of those other reindeer before that night? Did any of them even try to get to know him?

The moral here is clear: You shouldn't mock others for their supposed afflictions -- not because it's cruel and heartless, but simply because someday they may turn out to be useful.

Lots of Dashers and Dancers in this world."

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I can only applaud you. This was amazing and I couldn't agree more.

Vince524 said:

Couldn't it also be seen as Everyone has their own worth, and we should celebrate that which makes us different?

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No.

Yes, Santa is a big, mean bully. I saw him clothesline the Tooth Fairy at the annual holiday party. And that was BEFORE the flag football game. He also lives in a remote secret location with a harem of little men.

Now and then they do things that make a reindeer's nose glow.

Vince524 said:

Couldn't it also be seen as Everyone has their own worth, and we should celebrate that which makes us different?

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Vince524 said:

That's how I always saw it. Is there something wrong with me?


Careful how you answer that!

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That's how I always saw it.

Vince524 said:

Couldn't it also be seen as Everyone has their own worth, and we should celebrate that which makes us different?

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In this case it means be careful who you alienate . . you never know when you might need to exploit them . .

rugcat said:

Which made me think. Rudolph is one of our beloved children's Christmas songs, sung to tiny tots ad nauseam. But to me, it's a horrible song, antithetical to the Christmas spirit, and, as they say, sending the wrong message to kids.

Click to expand...

Rudolph struggled socially because he was different. Then he prevailed, because he was different. This is "the wrong message" how?

One could parse just about any children's story, fable, song or fairytale out there and look at it as sending "the wrong message."

Who determines what the right message is, anyway?

We could say Santa is a long-haired, obese creeper who has elves spying on children, breaks into family homes, beckons strange children to sit on his lap and whisper their secrets in his ear, trades these secrets for candy and presents .... what kind of message is that?

Charles Farley said:

In this case it means be careful who you alienate . . you never know when you might need to exploit them . .

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Exactly.

There is no realization of their former cruelty. The one and only reason they accept Rudolph is that what they thought was a disability actually turned out to be a benefit.

That's the basis for their acceptance. Oh, we thought he was a geek, and deserving of scorn, but turns out he was cool after all -- because he saved the day.

This is presented as a feel good after school special moment -- see, they've misjudged him. But what if Rudolph had been lame? The clear implication is that nothing would have ever changed. What if he had funny fur? Would he have been given the chance to prove he was just as good as anyone else? I think not.

The only way someone different can be accepted, apparently, is if their apparent difference turns out to be surprisingly and exceptionally useful. In real life the kid with the big nose doesn't have special abilities. He's just a kid with a big nose, and the cool kids mock him forever.

I call bullshit on this one.

I think there are instances where looking deep into something is simply looking too deep.

It could be looked at in many different ways. I do believe that most children would look at it from the perspective that even if they are different they can be amazing with those differences, perhaps even because of them rather than inspite of.

Devil Ledbetter said:

We could say Santa is a long-haired, obese creeper who has elves spying on children, breaks into family homes, beckons strange children to sit on his lap and whisper their secrets in his ear, trades these secrets for candy and presents .... what kind of message is that?

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He knows if you've been naughty or nice. Probably works for homeland security.

rugcat said:

I actually did a blog post last year about this, partly tongue in cheek, but not really:

"I noticed on TV yesterday the networks got a jump on Christmas, airing something about Christmas from Rockefeller Center, How The Grinch Stole Christmas, and Burl Ives narrating the story of Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer.

Which made me think. Rudolph is one of our beloved children's Christmas songs, sung to tiny tots ad nauseam. But to me, it's a horrible song, antithetical to the Christmas spirit, and, as they say, sending the wrong message to kids. Think about it.

First, you have poor Rudolph:

All of the other reindeer
Used to laugh and call him names;
They never let poor Rudolph
Join in any reindeer games.

In other words, Rudolph, who is different, in fact, physically deformed in the eyes of the other children, is mercilessly mocked and excluded by his peers. Nice going, Dasher et al.

But wait! An emergency arises. And now Rudolph suddenly becomes useful, and saves the day.

Then how the reindeer loved him.

Indeed. Now that he's of use, everybody wants to be his friend. But if not for that foggy night, he would have continued to be an outsider and the butt of cruel jokes. But he's the same Rudolph he always was, is he not? Where was the compassion of those other reindeer before that night? Did any of them even try to get to know him?

The moral here is clear: You shouldn't mock others for their supposed afflictions -- not because it's cruel and heartless, but simply because someday they may turn out to be useful.

Lots of Dashers and Dancers in this world."

Click to expand...

My feelings on the story, exactly.

But the kids love it, so I actually talk a little with them about how unfair the other reindeer were being and how just cheering for Rudolph isn't enough.

rugcat said:

He knows if you've been naughty or nice. Probably works for homeland security.

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Nah, he's probably Mark Zuckerberg.

As so often is the case, Cheers dealt with this about twenty years ago: Frasier on the damaging lesson of Rudolph.

I agree with Rug. The story only had a happy ending because Rudolph was useful. If his nose wasn't good for something, then they'd still be mocking him constantly.

Cracked did a good article on the movie version:
http://www.cracked.com/article_18601_4-bad-lessons-rudolph-red-nosed-reindeer-teaches-kids.html

Shadow Dragon said:

I agree with Rug. The story only had a happy ending because Rudolph was useful. If his nose wasn't good for something, then they'd still be mocking him constantly.

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What is bad about the message "try to be useful"? If that's the wrong message then Thomas The Tank Engine must really be pissing some people off.

It seems like a basic tennant of human relations that useful, effective people earn more respect than lazy, shiftless, useless and ineffective people.

Isn't that why everyone was mad at the firefighters in Tennessee? They weren't being useful enough?