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kingsley
12-15-2012, 12:51 AM
Wow, Noah. I don't usually read military-heavy stuff, but i did play a lot of Gunship 2000 as a kid. I think you just sold a book or two. :)

Noah Body
12-15-2012, 12:58 AM
Well, hearing that always warms the cockles of my tiny, black heart. :D

And Gunship 2000? Damn, I well in my 30s when that came out...

Noah Body
05-15-2013, 10:11 PM
Holy thread resurrection, Batman!

I forgot all about coming back here and doing a 2012 wrap-up from the finance point of view. So, here it is:

In 2011, I made a little over 15,000.

In 2012, I made a little over 82,500.

That blew my mind, as well as my accountant's, but it did explain how I was suddenly able to easily afford a new wood floor in my house and obtain a bunch of new toys. Suffice to say, the money was spent, albeit not entirely wisely.

2013, to date: just shy of $50,000, though I'm forecasting May to be a $10,000 month. Have three new releases coming, including a specific deal with two "trade-pubbed" authors that promises to equal what I've already made all by itself. Still have four earning months left in 2013, so it'll be an interesting year.

Though, as always, everything could blow up tomorrow.

dpaterso
05-15-2013, 10:32 PM
'Grats, dude, pretty cool numbers there, the result of an impressive and still-growing body of work.

-Derek

Ann Joyce
05-15-2013, 11:58 PM
Still going strong, I see. w00t!

RLMcKeown
05-16-2013, 12:07 AM
Wow! That's awesome, Noah!

merrihiatt
05-16-2013, 12:20 AM
Great news!

Nick Russell
05-16-2013, 08:22 AM
That's wonderful, I'm thrilled for you!

CrastersBabies
05-16-2013, 09:16 AM
I check in on this every now and then. While I'm not an e-writer myself, I like to read about how things are going in digital land. Always great to see success stories. These need to happen. The more this happens, the more I hope the big print companies will take note, learn, and adapt.

Spell-it-out
05-16-2013, 02:56 PM
That is exceptional! Congrats bud!

Carradee
05-16-2013, 03:16 PM
Congrats, Noah! That's fabulous. :)

shaldna
05-16-2013, 04:11 PM
Wonderful news Noah.

Noah Body
05-16-2013, 07:24 PM
Thanks, all. There's generally a dearth of information out there on the financials; anyone else care to post their hauls?

In response to the money, I'll likely start dialing back the zombie apocalypse stuff and spooling up more science fiction. I'm a little frustrated with the other genres I've dabbled in, namely adventure and mystery/suspense, so I might only set up those tent poles once a year or so. But it's clear to me that SF is a much bigger playground. It's also more harshly critical, but what the hell, no one's gotta love me. :D

Old Hack
05-16-2013, 10:35 PM
Thanks, all. There's generally a dearth of information out there on the financials; anyone else care to post their hauls?

I've been thinking about this lately: the self-publishing diary threads are a really nice way to track people's efforts, but I wondered if a thread which reported sales and/or income only might be useful. I'm sure that people would be interested, but I'm concerned that I'd be asking too much from our members: many might well feel it's intrusive to be asked, or might feel like they're being put on the spot too much.

Thoughts, anyone?

Nick Russell
05-16-2013, 10:56 PM
It's a free country, if anybody doesn't want to reply, that's their choice.

triceretops
05-16-2013, 11:17 PM
I've been thinking about this lately: the self-publishing diary threads are a really nice way to track people's efforts, but I wondered if a thread which reported sales and/or income only might be useful. I'm sure that people would be interested, but I'm concerned that I'd be asking too much from our members: many might well feel it's intrusive to be asked, or might feel like they're being put on the spot too much.

Thoughts, anyone?

OH, I think you're on to something there since members would be more inclined to post their high sales figures, leaving the average people, like me, a little embarrassed to reveal the low earnings. It might get a little lopsided in the reality of what's happening out there. It's great to see the financial successes of the self-pubbed crowd, but I also feel a bit depressed when I consider that I've done something terribly wrong to be at the opposite end of the scale, almost as if I've entered into some type of failure mode and I'm destined to stay there. I'm not alone with this--the vast majority of self-pubbed authors are sitting right where I am at the present--I'm reasonably positive of this from comments gleaned from some AW threads, but mostly the Kindle boards.

tri

Nick Russell
05-16-2013, 11:42 PM
Numbers can jump all over. In early 2012 I was making over $12,000 a month from Amazon. My check this month will be $978. But I releases a new book in my Big Lake series one April 1st, so my April sales were $2985. For me, new books mean increased sales not only of the new title, but also of the previous books in the series.

merrihiatt
05-17-2013, 12:25 AM
My sales are not huge, but I post them every month to show the whole picture. I have one trilogy that has basically tanked -- no sales in months. Others have fared much better.

My concern is that some folks may feel reporting their figures isn't helpful. I take a larger view and consider all reports useful.

Noah Body
05-17-2013, 12:33 AM
I did neglect to mention one thing: in March, I pulled out of all the other markets and went right into KDP Select. I made maybe $300-$400 a month in the other markets. Going all in with Amazon added a cool $1,000+ per month to my bottom line.

As always though, your mileage may vary.

christwriter
05-17-2013, 01:51 AM
I'll throw my data into the ring. Everything in US bucks:

2012 data:

July: 3 books, $1.05
August: 1 book,$ .35
September: 18 books,$ 5.25
October: 36 books, $18.09
November: 27 books,$ 14.25
December: 26 books, $15.99

Year totals: 112 books, $55.80 dollars

2013 data:

January: 45 books $19.96
February: 24 books $18.97
March: 20 books $8.40
April: 47 books $35.69
May 1-16: 39 books. No cash totals yet.

Totals for 2013 so far:

172 books and $87 bucks and some change.

RLMcKeown
05-17-2013, 02:19 AM
I've been thinking about this lately: the self-publishing diary threads are a really nice way to track people's efforts, but I wondered if a thread which reported sales and/or income only might be useful. I'm sure that people would be interested, but I'm concerned that I'd be asking too much from our members: many might well feel it's intrusive to be asked, or might feel like they're being put on the spot too much.

Thoughts, anyone?

I plan to share my sales numbers and income in my diary, but I'd certainly post on a dedicated sales/income thread, too. Since my only book out is a short book of poetry, I know I won't come close to some of the posted numbers, but that's OK! I think it's a good idea, especially since people don't have to respond.

girlyswot
06-12-2013, 05:55 PM
I'm happy to share my figures. These are my three self-pub titles (I also have titles through an e-publisher), with total royalties paid so far:

RRATR (self-pub, 21 months): $530.72
TCW (self-pub, 20 months): $1620
12D (self-pub, 4 months): $55.27

However, I did have an extraordinary spike in the sales figures in the last two months. There's another $2000 or so waiting to be paid, mostly for TCW, which resulted from a free promo.

The other thing that made a noticeable difference in the figures (from tens to hundreds of dollars/month) was the release of one of my other books last summer. At the moment, my short stories are earning much better through my publisher, but my longer books are doing better self-published, which isn't what I would have expected at all.

veinglory
06-12-2013, 07:15 PM
I have made about negative $100 at this point. The book came out two months ago and has yet to recover it's production costs.

Noah Body
06-12-2013, 07:20 PM
Was this a different genre for you?

veinglory
06-12-2013, 07:30 PM
Nope.

triceretops
06-12-2013, 10:19 PM
Can anyone say that their e-publishing has taken a downward turn, as far as sales go, in the last 18 months or so? I know that individual variables exist with such a determination, but I'm talking about a general slump. And could you explain why you think it has happened, either to you, or to the entire e-publishing sector.

tri

ebbrown
06-12-2013, 10:35 PM
I study these threads frequently, hoping to pick up pointers. Lots of good insight & advice reading all the way through.

I can't say things have slacked off. For me it's taken a leap. I'm kinda uncomfortable posting numbers (if anyone is really interested, inbox me), but I will say that I am making more with my books right now than I do as an RN. So I am hoping it keeps up so I can just focus on the writing.

I do see dips in sales when heavy-hitters in my genre are released. Well known authors in my genre are often in the top #10 overall on Amazon. I sometimes think it has a carry-over impact, in that people are not browsing so much for the lesser-known books like mine.:Shrug:

sarahdalton
06-12-2013, 10:40 PM
I've not noticed anything either. My sales have dramatically increased since Feb due to advertising and new releases.

Is it a genre thing? Maybe some genres are losing readers. I wonder if New Adult is pulling readers away from popular genres such as Paranormal Romance.

I do think KDP Select is less powerful than it used to be, and writers relying on it for promotion might find a slump in sales.

triceretops
06-13-2013, 01:42 AM
Thanks for your opinions. Two things make sense here: I'm paranormal romance and it might indeed be cooling off. Also, I'm Select, so it's possible that it is not having the impact on sales that it once did. It seems to be a default device for boosting sales whenever they're low--at least I use it in this fashion when I panic about very high (low) sales rank. But crikey, you can only give away so many 1000s of copies before there are seldom new takers.

tri

merrihiatt
06-13-2013, 05:06 AM
Sales took a nosedive for me in March/April 2012. I've never fully recovered, but had an upswing in January 2013.

LOTLOF
06-13-2013, 07:56 AM
I have self published one novel on Amazon. Thus far:

April - 495 sales - $940 (estimate)
May - 1,095 sales - $2,080 (estimate)
June (partial) - 379 sales - $720 (estimate)

Totals - 1,969 sales - $3,740 (estimate)

I am a bit of an exception in that when I first self published I already had a strong following on fanfiction.net. The same people who enjoyed my fanfiction stories bought my original novel and also spread the word about it.

Old Hack
06-13-2013, 10:58 AM
Those are great numbers, LOTLOF. But I hope you're not publishing your fanfic and earning money from it: that could get you into serious (and expensive) legal trouble. Please be careful.

LOTLOF
06-13-2013, 11:24 AM
No need to fear. I haven't, and if I ever do I will go the 50 Shades route and just change the characters and setting into something original.

triceretops
06-14-2013, 02:52 AM
I have self published one novel on Amazon. Thus far:

April - 495 sales - $940 (estimate)
May - 1,095 sales - $2,080 (estimate)
June (partial) - 379 sales - $720 (estimate)

Totals - 1,969 sales - $3,740 (estimate)

I am a bit of an exception in that when I first self published I already had a strong following on fanfiction.net. The same people who enjoyed my fanfiction stories bought my original novel and also spread the word about it.

Wow! Awesome numbers to be sure. And thank you so much for telling us that you did have a fan base and potential sales in place before you listed it on Amazon. I absolutely believe that anyone who pulls in such numbers is or has been a pretty popular author who has a following. Quality and genre do come next, of course.

tri

girlyswot
06-14-2013, 06:14 PM
I'm happy to share my figures. These are my three self-pub titles (I also have titles through an e-publisher), with total royalties paid so far:

RRATR (self-pub, 21 months): $530.72
TCW (self-pub, 20 months): $1620
12D (self-pub, 4 months): $55.27


Now with May figures from Amazon added:

RRATR (self-pub, 22 months): $602.59
TCW (self-pub, 21 months): $2562.49
12D (self-pub, 5 months): $64.97

MmeGuillotine
06-14-2013, 07:42 PM
I'm not really sure how to list my sales but I think this will make the most sense:

2011 2,065 sales = $1,965.34 and £302.87

2012 14,314 sales = $11,030.89 and £4,360.51

2013 (Jan-May) 6,231 sales = $7,073.78 and £2,775.37

So not WOAH AMAZING but not bad either. I had no following when I started publishing my books either - I've built it all up myself since I published my first book back in 2011. :)

Noah Body
06-14-2013, 08:20 PM
May 2013, Amazon U.S. sales:

$11,861.02, of which $1,117.97 is directly attributable to the KDP Select program. That's a great addition, and it far surpasses what I would have made on B&N, Apple, Kobo, Smashwords, et al.

K.B. Parker
06-15-2013, 10:30 AM
I just wanted to pop in and congratulate everybody on their individual success. Whether you made a few hundred or a few thousand, you're all getting paid to do something you love.

Keep up the hard work :)

Judy Koot
06-15-2013, 02:11 PM
Congrats everyone, and thanks for posting your numbers.

I think it would be even more informative if people would also mention:
- how many books they have published
- in what genres
- short info about promotion
- and info about their (years of) writing experience
- the sales channels they use (and which ones work best for them)

Just to put everything in perspective.

Maybe Old Hack could start a new thread/sticky as she mentioned earlier?
Would be so into that!

MmeGuillotine
06-15-2013, 03:47 PM
Judy, I'd be happy to oblige. :)

I've published four books, the most recent in April 2013. The other three came out in February 2011, October (?) 2011 and March 2012. My next self published book will be out either in December 2013 (if it isn't picked up by any of the agents that are interested in it at the moment) or spring 2014 (I haven't started writing this one yet but it's the sequel to my last book so I kind of HAVE to write it soon!).

I write historical fiction, which is a bit under represented in self publishing for some reason.

I don't do much promotion - all I do is write a quite popular blog, where I will occasionally talk about my books, and chatter away on Twitter and Facebook, where I also very occasionally mention my books although I prefer to talk about my WIP rather than books I have already written and published. I don't do free promotions or anything like that. I don't even approach other bloggers for reviews - I prefer to let it happen organically.

I have been writing away since I was a child but have no prior experience in the publishing industry. I'm still totally clueless about the trade publishing side of things, which is why I prefer self publishing as I know what I'm doing there.

I only sell my books through Amazon KDP and have all four registered with Select. I don't use the free promotion option but I get quite a few borrows through the lending scheme so that makes it worthwhile for me. :)

Judy Koot
06-15-2013, 04:25 PM
Thank you for sharing MmeGuillotine! <3

MmeGuillotine
06-15-2013, 05:09 PM
No worries, Judy! I'm always happy to spill the beans if it's likely to be useful to anyone. :)

LBlankenship
06-16-2013, 05:29 PM
Just for contrast, numbers from someone still building from scratch.

2 books published so far, both of them "hard fantasy romance" (in a pinch, that collapses down to fantasy.) I've promoted through my blogs, blog touring, a little on Twitter, here, a little on Goodreads... I'll be the first to admit that promoting isn't my strong suit.

I've been writing on and off since my single-digit years. Since 2011, my lack of steady work and general misery led to committing myself full-time to writing. I was lucky enough to get into Viable Paradise in 2011, which was amazingly wonderful.

Sales channels: Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Smashwords, AllRomance.com. Paperbacks via Createspace. Amazon leads the sales numbers, of course.

I was also featured on Storybundle.com as part of their holiday (2012) bundle.

Approximate income numbers:

2012 (first book published in November)
~$35 through conventional channels
Storybundle netted me about $1400

2013 (second book published in April)
~$95 as of June 15th

I also ran two Kickstarters that pre-sold my books (and offered a KS-only prologue) to fund editing, cover art, etc., which netted me about $5700 in total.

100% of this money is going into further publishing. My third book will be out... maybe in September, depends on how the timing works out.

Onward and upward!

Noah Body
06-16-2013, 10:27 PM
Congrats everyone, and thanks for posting your numbers.

I think it would be even more informative if people would also mention:
- how many books they have published
- in what genres
- short info about promotion
- and info about their (years of) writing experience
- the sales channels they use (and which ones work best for them)

Just to put everything in perspective.

Maybe Old Hack could start a new thread/sticky as she mentioned earlier?
Would be so into that!
I already posted most of this stuff (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6679013&postcount=39), and so far, my past directly informs my present. I'll add KDP Select has been a Godsend from where I sit.

merrihiatt
06-16-2013, 11:44 PM
I want to play, too! It will take me some time to gather the information. I've only been reporting on Amazon sales. I'll need to gather Smashwords, AllRomance and B&N information so I can break it down by sales channel. I've wanted to do that for quite some time. I have all the reports in Excel spreadsheets, just need to get them to play nicely with each other (i.e., I need to copy/paste them into a spreadsheet of my own, probably in monthly and yearly increments.

Judy Koot
06-17-2013, 12:24 AM
Thanks for the link, Noah. Very interesting.
I got into this thread rather late so only read the first and last couple of pages.
Will check the pages in between too...

shelleyo
06-17-2013, 09:05 PM
May 2013, Amazon U.S. sales:

$11,861.02, of which $1,117.97 is directly attributable to the KDP program. That's a great addition, and it far surpasses what I would have made on B&N, Apple, Kobo, Smashwords, et al.


So you earned over 1k just on borrows in KDP Select, right, and that was more than you made on all other outlets combined before going exclusive with Select instead of just publishing through KDP along with other outlets? KDP is just Kindle Direct Publishing, the way everyone self-publishes on Amazon. The exclusivity program is KDP Select, and is very different.

Your numbers are awesome, I'm just clarifying for people who aren't sure of the distinction.

Spell-it-out
06-18-2013, 12:38 PM
I'll play too :D

Most of my sales have been locally, in PB format. I ordered 320 copies from Creatspace over the last six months, and have sold 300 of them. I have twenty still in some local bookstores. I made most of my money from local grocery stores stocking my book, as the bookstores took their cut, naturally.

I've sold 24 on Kindle and 12 PB on Amazon.

Bought the Creatspace PBs for approx 4.80 Euro each, delivered. Sold them for 12 Euro, so with bookstores' discounts applied, I've made approx 1500 Euro on them, and about 50 Euro on online sales.

Great numbers by everyone, congrats.

Noah Body
06-18-2013, 05:53 PM
So you earned over 1k just on borrows in KDP Select, right, and that was more than you made on all other outlets combined before going exclusive with Select instead of just publishing through KDP along with other outlets? KDP is just Kindle Direct Publishing, the way everyone self-publishes on Amazon. The exclusivity program is KDP Select, and is very different.

Your numbers are awesome, I'm just clarifying for people who aren't sure of the distinction.
Sorry, yes--the Select program netted me more money than the other sites combined. Thanks for the correction, I've edited my post to reflect that.

LOTLOF
06-19-2013, 01:47 AM
Congrats everyone, and thanks for posting your numbers.

I think it would be even more informative if people would also mention:
- how many books they have published
- in what genres
- short info about promotion
- and info about their (years of) writing experience
- the sales channels they use (and which ones work best for them)

Just to put everything in perspective.

Maybe Old Hack could start a new thread/sticky as she mentioned earlier?
Would be so into that!

1) Two books total, one novel and one very short, 'advice' book.

2) The novel is a fantasy parody and humorous. The advice book is also humor and a parody. (I'm a smart ass and mockery and sarcasm just come naturally to me. It's a gift.)

3) I have a strong fanfiction following as well as my own website. I notified my fans with updates on both.

4) I have been writing since Junior High School, so going on thirty years at this point. For most of that I was filling up notebooks and submitting occasional stories to magazines. (All rejected.) I have been posting stories on line for the last seven years. Something I highly recomend as it gave me a lot of valuable feedback, and the opportunity to improve.

5) The novel uses KDP Select, the advice book just uses the regular KDP. At this point:

The advice book has sold a total of 7 ebooks.
The novel has sold 20 paperbacks and 2,125 ebooks.

Not a really fair comparison as the one has 28 pages and the other 495.

J. Tanner
06-19-2013, 03:10 AM
People interested in this subject might also be interested in this May self-published bestseller list compiled by Christiana Miller:

http://yearoftheindie.blogspot.com/2013/06/may-2013-top-selling-indie-authors.html

Some important considerations:
1. It's primarily a self-selected, self-reported list, though many of the top spots are estimated based on other bestseller lists. While most of these people seem generally trustworthy in their reporting, there's at least one author I noticed who's shown to not be so in other areas.
2. It's only paid sales. Freebies are not considered sales and not included in any of the numbers.
3. Many of the raw numbers come from elsewhere and I saw the data go down into the single digits for some authors. So it wasn't only the amazingly successful reporting, but the data did appear to sway far in that direction.
4. The sales are total across all books, and should not be mistaking for the featured book listed in the adjacent column.
5. If you visit, you'll have to tolerate the use of "indie" in reference to self-publishers. :)

While the May sales are published now, you can still add your data here if you'd like it included in the (presumed) yearly info:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/18wvpkqjg0HkYRTQVMPI45HxuzZqjFOKojWtvrmFBeeg/viewform
I suspect a new/revised form will arrive at the end of June.

Ann Joyce
06-19-2013, 03:36 AM
Well, it sure was fun to see our own Sarah Dalton on the list. Congratulations, Sarah!

Thanks for posting, J. Tanner. I thought it was interesting to see what the genres and price points were.

sarahdalton
06-19-2013, 12:10 PM
Well, it sure was fun to see our own Sarah Dalton on the list. Congratulations, Sarah!

Thanks for posting, J. Tanner. I thought it was interesting to see what the genres and price points were.

Thanks Ann! :)

And gosh, darnit J Tanner you beat me to it.

I just want to add that the 'featured book' is what Christiana has put the price for, it's not the price of all author's books. So not all of my books are 0.99. If you want to try and figure out income bear in mind that most authors have books at different prices. Most of mine are 2.99.

And yes, I urge you to fill out the form for June so that we can get more information on sales figures. I think you can fill in as your pen name if you want it anonymous.

It's not a perfect system, but it is encouraging. :)

ETA: Here's the form for June https://docs.google.com/forms/d/15INBYF97LgkTiGWZf2W2l2hcjZuKQovE5aU8j88o_Aw/viewform

sarahdalton
07-01-2013, 03:38 PM
I'm not sure if you need to have a Kboards log in to see this, but here is an excellent list of self-published authors and their sales: http://www.kboards.com/authors/

It's self-reported. It only lists authors who have sold more than 1000 books.

Some authors explain in the notes that some of their sales come from trade-published books.

I think there are more authors to report their sales. The form only just went up so keep checking back.

Captcha
07-01-2013, 04:27 PM
I'm not sure if you need to have a Kboards log in to see this, but here is an excellent list of self-published authors and their sales: http://www.kboards.com/authors/

It's self-reported. It only lists authors who have sold more than 1000 books.

Some authors explain in the notes that some of their sales come from trade-published books.

I think there are more authors to report their sales. The form only just went up so keep checking back.

Unfortunate that they exclude people with sales of less than 1000. I think they're going to miss the vast majority of self-publishers by setting that limit.

ETA: Actually, I'm not sure that they do exclude the smaller sales numbers - I saw a guy with 969 sales...

sarahdalton
07-01-2013, 04:57 PM
Unfortunate that they exclude people with sales of less than 1000. I think they're going to miss the vast majority of self-publishers by setting that limit.

ETA: Actually, I'm not sure that they do exclude the smaller sales numbers - I saw a guy with 969 sales...

Ahh, maybe I got it wrong!

I think the idea of it is for authors to report their 'milestones' which is usually 1k upwards. But, it's also useful for us to have a nosey and get an idea of how many writers are doing well.

There's also the blog post J.Tanner listed. Christiana puts the top 100 on her blog, but also reports everyone else on Kindleboards. It's quite useful.

The problem is that the self-published authors who aren't selling well often don't post on these forums, so the results will be skewed. Plus they might not want to add their sales.

If you post or lurk on kindleboards you often see the tongue-in-cheek 'turdmaster' symbol in signatures which means one sale or less per day. :)

Noah Body
07-12-2013, 07:34 AM
I see Amazon just released the royalty statements for June. I pulled in $9,029 in the US market. Damn, but it's easy to get used to five figures...

BigRed
07-12-2013, 08:32 PM
Having just gotten started in the self-pub biz, I have to say that I'm inspired by Noah's posts, and by his honesty. Even after lurking on AW for many years, this place continues to push me to do better and to try and achieve some level of success. Thanks to all who contribute; it is appreciated.

girlyswot
07-12-2013, 11:30 PM
I see Amazon just released the royalty statements for June.

*rushes to check*

No surprises in mine. I'm not sure why I think there would be.

sarahdalton
07-15-2013, 01:11 PM
If anyone is interested, the Kboards 'Author' page has been updated. It includes authors with zero sales. Many more have updated.

http://www.kboards.com/authors/

You can also search by name now. If you wish.

MartinD
07-17-2013, 11:44 PM
People interested in this subject might also be interested in this May self-published bestseller list compiled by Christiana Miller:

http://yearoftheindie.blogspot.com/2013/06/may-2013-top-selling-indie-authors.html



I'm amazed that a self-published author sold a half million copies of her novel in May alone. Well done, H. M. Ward, whoever you may be.

williemeikle
07-18-2013, 12:16 AM
Added my details to the Kindle Boards author pages thing. Search for Meikle in the author name to find me. http://www.kboards.com/authors/

Most of my e-books are not self published but released through genre small presses who also have the print rights.

J. Tanner
07-18-2013, 04:16 AM
I'm amazed that a self-published author sold a half million copies of her novel in May alone. Well done, H. M. Ward, whoever you may be.

Looks like she did it again in June. (Novels though--she has 36 books available.) Christiana Miller put up the new list a couple days ago:

http://yearoftheindie.blogspot.com/2013_07_01_archive.html

sarahdalton
08-02-2013, 01:54 PM
If any of the self-published authors on this board fancy adding their data to the mix, Christiana Miller is doing another sales breakdown: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1MbKgFEz6d_or6t8us6yFqMGRDSRXEyBwhABRtVre6ls/viewform

Ann Joyce
08-02-2013, 09:23 PM
Finally took the time to look at it. I've got to say the Kboards author stats are very well done - attractive and laid out well.

Matthew Hughes
08-04-2013, 06:48 PM
I'm coming late to the thread, having joined AW just a few days ago.

I'm a midlist author of traditionally published sf and crime fiction, mostly the former. Six months ago, I started epubbing my backlist on Amazon, Kobo, and my own webstore. Then, three months back I also got into POD paperbacks via CreateSpace.

I already had something of a following, but I'm an outlier in the sf community: I write space-opera in a Jack Vance mode. Still, the big sf blogs give me reviews and reprint my announcements, and Locus magazine runs the blinks I send them.

What attracted me most to self-pubbing, apart from the obvious advantages of immediacy and not sharing the proceeds with publishers, is that it allowed me take the more than fifty short stories I've had in pro markets and package them in self-pubbed collections. As anyone who's sold shorts knows, unless you're picked up for a best-of-year antho, the reprint value of most stories is effectively nil. Reselling them as ebooks and PODs is the new definition of money for old rope.

I've put out nine titles, gradually, over the six months, at the $2.99 price point ($12.99 for PODs). I'm selling about 240 ebooks a month, while the paperbacks are selling in the dozens. I had a little flurry of sales on Kobo to begin with, then they trailed off, and I have not made a sale there since May.

Things started out well at my own webstore, making between 25 to 33 per cent of my sales there through the first three months. But that's dropped off, and by last month, more than 90 percent of my sales were coming via the various Amazon sites, mostly in the US.

What I'm thinking now is that I should drop Kobo and my own store (though it would pain me to tell the dedicated fan who built it for me for free) and switch to Kindle Select.

I would appreciate any advice or accounts of people's KS publishing experiences.

NoelleAD
08-04-2013, 09:01 PM
What I'm thinking now is that I should drop Kobo and my own store (though it would pain me to tell the dedicated fan who built it for me for free) and switch to Kindle Select.

I would appreciate any advice or accounts of people's KS publishing experiences.

I had a lot of success with Kindle Select, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it the way I would have even six months ago.

I started self-publishing in November, and I was selling about 100 copies a month on my first three releases until I put a novel on Kindle Select in January. During the first three-day free promotion period, a number of incredibly general book bloggers read and enjoyed the book, so that book started getting a lot of buzz it never would have gotten otherwise. It sold very well afterwards, and my other books picked up in sales considerably. I put a second title on Kindle Select (later in January), and it didn't get nearly the buzz the first book had but it did even better in sales afterwards. In the month following that Kindle Select period, I sold 15,000 copies of that book at $2.99. I was thrilled with those results, and I have to attribute the sales momentum to Kindle Select, since I did absolutely no marketing of that book.

However, I think Kindle Select is a lot less effective than it used to be, and there are more effective promotions you might try first now.
I put another book on Kindle Select in May, and it did just as well in terms of the numbers of downloads during the free promotion periods. In fact, (thanks to BookBub) the book got to number 1 on the free list. But there just hasn't been the sales momentum afterwards that I saw with Kindle Select before, and I think $.99 promotions are a better way to go now.

If I were you, I'd try to do a big $.99 promotion on whatever of your books you think is most appealing. Since you have a backlist, you might try to get listed on BookBub. That's by far the most effective way to advertise a $.99 promotion. (They're very selective, but it helps to be well-reviewed and have a number of books available.) I've done three BookBub $.99 promotions, and they've been more effective in building my audience than the free promotions with Kindle Select are now.

Some people would say not to even consider Kindle Select, and I understand why, since it limits your sales options so much. But if you still can't move any books through a $.99 promotion, then I don't think it's off the table to consider Kindle Select. But just put one of your books on it, not all of them. Make sure you advertise the free promotion days in as many places as you can, and then try to draw readers to your other books through the free promotion book. If it doesn't work, then at least it's only one book that's limited to Amazon for three months and not your whole list.

(I write contemporary romance, by the way, so my advice is based on my experience in that genre. Perhaps people who write in genres closer to yours would have different advice.)

Matthew Hughes
08-04-2013, 09:53 PM
Noelle:

Thank you. I'd never heard of Bookbub. Their price for a free sf novel is only $70. I may give them a try.

stranger
08-04-2013, 10:51 PM
Agree with Noelle.

Kindle Select isn't much help anymore according to many accounts. 99c promotions supported by Bookbub seem to be the best way at the moment to move forward.

swvaughn
08-05-2013, 03:21 AM
Sigh. I am saddened that the Select program doesn't work any more.

I'm always six months late to everything... or ten years early. Sheesh.

I have terrible timing. :tongue

Captcha
08-05-2013, 03:51 AM
I was looking at Bookbub, and couldn't quite figure out how their selection policy reconciled with using them to support a self-published book. They claim to only promote books from Best Sellers or good critical response or whatever else that is pretty hard for a start-up self-publisher to supply.

Has anyone ever had a book rejected by them, or is acceptance pretty-well guaranteed?

triceretops
08-05-2013, 04:37 AM
My latest Select free program lately was a complete bust, compared to my last outing about six months ago. No sales or reviews this time. I think it's seen it's day, or I've just worn out my free welcome with this particular title which is very possible.

tri

merrihiatt
08-05-2013, 05:01 AM
Has anyone ever had a book rejected by them, or is acceptance pretty-well guaranteed?

I believe the sticking point has been the number of reviews required and that they have to be three stars and above. IIRC it is somewhere around twenty.

Noah Body
08-05-2013, 06:57 AM
I make well north a thousand extra bucks a month with Select. What really makes me titter is when someone borrows a .99 short story, which nets me around $2.20 as opposed to .35.

stranger
08-05-2013, 12:41 PM
I was looking at Bookbub, and couldn't quite figure out how their selection policy reconciled with using them to support a self-published book. They claim to only promote books from Best Sellers or good critical response or whatever else that is pretty hard for a start-up self-publisher to supply.

Has anyone ever had a book rejected by them, or is acceptance pretty-well guaranteed?

Recently tried and was rejected. I pretty much expected it. From reports, they generally require 20+ reviews, a high average (prob 4.0+) and even then they might turn you turn.

Edit: I agree it doesn't necessarily help many self publishers (including myself). Generally more useful for those who are established or have a book already doing well. It's tough out there.

NoelleAD
08-05-2013, 03:40 PM
I was looking at Bookbub, and couldn't quite figure out how their selection policy reconciled with using them to support a self-published book. They claim to only promote books from Best Sellers or good critical response or whatever else that is pretty hard for a start-up self-publisher to supply.

Has anyone ever had a book rejected by them, or is acceptance pretty-well guaranteed?

BookBub seems to be very open to self-published titles as long as they're well-reviewed and the author has a number of titles available. I definitely agree that getting well-reviewed when one is just starting out is the sticking point, though.

Authors and publishers have really caught on to the fact that BookBub is the most effective way to advertise a book promotion, so I think they've gotten even more selective in the last few months than they used to be.

The first title of mine they accepted back in March had about twenty reviews and a 4.2 average on Amazon. Even then I had four other individual books and a six-part serial novel available (they definitely favor authors with a number of other books out). The next title they accepted was the box set of the serial novel. It only had three or four reviews when they accepted it, but the individual volumes all had 40+ reviews (above 4 stars average). Another book they accepted had over 300 reviews (most of them garnered through the Kindle Select free promotions), and the free book listing they accepted had 50+ reviews and a 4.2 star average.

They recently rejected one of my requests. It was a book with 40 reviews and a 4.1 star average, but it was a title under my second penname. I only have two other books out under that penname, one of which they already ran a promotion for - so I assume that might be why they rejected it. Maybe if you have a smaller number of books available, they look for a higher number of reviews.

Anyway, all that to say that BookBub is highly selective, and it's hard to know why they accept or reject books, but reviews and having a number of titles available seem to be the main factors. It's definitely worth trying, though. I made the USA Today bestseller list with one of my BookBub promotions.

I do think Kindle Select is one fairly easy way to get reviews, if an author has tried and failed to get reviews in other ways (making requests of book bloggers, doing a blog tour that focuses on reviews, etc.). I would suggest starting with a two-day free promotion period and then waiting to see if reviews come in from that. Then, after a month or two, run a more heavily-advertised three-day free promotion period with a better-reviewed title. Again, it doesn't seem to lead to the sales afterwards it used to, but at least there's a chance of getting reviews, which will help in future marketing. Just be sure to unclick the box about automatically renewing Kindle Select, since going for a second three-month Select period doesn't seem to do any good at all.

For what it's worth, my best advice when starting out is to concentrate first on getting a number of good books out and don't waste too much time or money on promoting until you have at least four or five books available. I hate to see authors killing themselves trying to promote a single book when it would be far more effective to pour that energy into writing the next book.

swvaughn
08-05-2013, 07:02 PM
Noelle, thanks for all the info about BookBub and Select. That's really helpful (to me, at least!) :)

sarahdalton
08-05-2013, 07:33 PM
For what it's worth, my best advice when starting out is to concentrate first on getting a number of good books out and don't waste too much time or money on promoting until you have at least four or five books available. I hate to see authors killing themselves trying to promote a single book when it would be far more effective to pour that energy into writing the next book.

This is so true. I hate to see writers spending more time on trying to get a Bookbub than writing another book.

Matthew Hughes
08-05-2013, 08:09 PM
I sent an order to Bookbub a couple of hours ago and now I'm approved for a one-week promo starting Aug 24. I'll report back to let people know how it goes.

Judy Koot
08-05-2013, 09:11 PM
That would be nice, Matthew.
Good luck with the promo!

Ann Joyce
08-05-2013, 09:33 PM
Congrats on your upcoming Bookbub ad, Matthew. Will be looking forward to hearing about your results.

AdamR85
08-06-2013, 06:34 AM
My experience in indie pubbing is a little different, because my books have been available for precisely 6 days. But maybe it will give you some idea of what it looks like right out of the gate.

I released my first novel on July 31st through Amazon and Smashwords. Sold six copies so far, four on Amazon and 2 on Smashwords, for a total of around $14. Two days later I released some short stories for .99, and made a pittance.

I am refusing to let this frustrate me, because I'm just starting out, and because that's just Amazon US. It will take a month to get my work into Amazon's other channels, and I won't get any sales information for at least another six months.

However, I got the extended distribution to Kobo, B&N, and Apple through Smashwords. On Kobo yesterday, the novel spiked from around 18,000 to just about 12,000, which means somebody was buying it. Because I went to Kobo through Smashwords, and extended distributors are notoriously slow with sales information, I won't know about those sales for another month or more.

All the promotion I did was announce it on facebook to those who liked my page, and announce it on my websites (mostly because I've been on the learning curve on getting the books formatted and uploaded properly). My costs were practically nothing. Open source writing program, open source graphic design software, and maybe $40 total on all my cover art. I have paper versions coming (and a number of people saying they want to buy paper), more short stories, a short story collection, and the main event, the release of the first in my series in November.

Looking at the responders here, it seems that you do better when you at least release something every month, a lot better when it's three or four things a month. My current goal (beyond finishing my main writing projects) is to write a short story every week or two and release them. That way there is a steady stream of work to keep readers involved between larger projects. Dean Wesley Smith is right when he says this new world of publishing is for a new generation of pulp writers. Write it fast and get it out there.

merrihiatt
08-06-2013, 08:35 AM
The 18,000 to 12,000 spike might only be the sale of one book. Don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, just realistic news. Also, writing fast and getting it out there is wonderful provided it's written well, edited, beta'd, proofread, has a great cover, good description, etc. It isn't enough to get it out there. There are a ton of books that are out there with no ranking (not even one sale, ever) or with a very low ranking.

AdamR85
08-06-2013, 09:53 AM
The 18,000 to 12,000 spike might only be the sale of one book. Don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, just realistic news. Also, writing fast and getting it out there is wonderful provided it's written well, edited, beta'd, proofread, has a great cover, good description, etc. It isn't enough to get it out there. There are a ton of books that are out there with no ranking (not even one sale, ever) or with a very low ranking.

Oh, trust me, I have no particular expectations that I sold a ton of books on Kobo (though it went, in its other category, from around 87,000 to 26,000, which I forgot to mention).

And yes, you're right. Speed in itself is not enough. But Heinlein's Rules still apply. I've used rewriting in the past as an excuse not to get something out there and move on that I now limit my rewrites to two and go on to the next thing. I take more time, obviously, with longer work than with short fiction.

Graylorne
08-06-2013, 01:26 PM
I have atm 2 self-published fantasy books, Shardfall ($5.99 - publ. June) & Rhidauna ($6.99 - publ. July) and a novelette, SUN ($0.99 - publ. Apr) on Amazon and on Smashwords + affiliates.
For some time I wondered if I was selling anything, and it appears I did. Not much, but I'm at least pleasantly surprised I wasn't living in a vacuum.

apr 1x SUN (Kobo)
may -nil-
jun 1x Shardfall (B&N)
jun 1x Rhidauna (Kindle UK)
jul 2x SUN (Kindle)
jul 1x Rhidauna (Kindle)
aug 1x SUN (Kindle)

I've no idead whether this is a creditable result or not, but at least I've sold something (ebooks all, no p-book sales yet).

I hope to add two more books this year at least (I'm having them edited right now), and for the first time since all this began I'm writing something new again!

Noah Body
08-14-2013, 07:25 AM
For July, numbers for Amazon US only:

Total: $9,115.78
Select Earnings via borrows: $684.03 (over a 50% decline)

August looks to be maybe half the total above, unless I can uncage my latest within the next couple of days, which is extremely doubtful.

Nick Russell
08-14-2013, 08:00 AM
Those are excellent numbers, Noah, congratulations! Typically July and August have been very slow for most independent authors I know.

Matthew Hughes
08-15-2013, 03:15 PM
In advance of the Bookbub promo I'm starting on August 24, I've uploaded all my titles to Smashwords.

They do a nice, clean author page: https://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/Archonate

I'll be interested to see the effects, if any, and will report numbers here.

Old Hack
08-15-2013, 03:30 PM
Matthew, why don't you start a self publishing diary thread of your own? I bet people would find it interesting.

bearilou
08-15-2013, 03:40 PM
Matthew, why don't you start a self publishing diary thread of your own? I bet people would find it interesting.

Agreed!

astonwest
08-21-2013, 05:48 AM
Kindle Select isn't much help anymore according to many accounts. 99c promotions supported by Bookbub seem to be the best way at the moment to move forward.


Sigh. I am saddened that the Select program doesn't work any more.

What I've found that helps is to have a book set to free on B&N and Smashwords (for much longer than 5 days every 90). Once Amazon price-matches, it seems to boost sales of your other titles (at least it has for mine).

I'll have to check out this Bookbub deal, though.

sarahdalton
08-21-2013, 11:13 PM
I think you can use Bookbub for permafree titles, too.

djherren
08-25-2013, 08:49 AM
Has anyone ever had a book rejected by them, or is acceptance pretty-well guaranteed?

My writing partner and I applied several months back and were rejected. We met the review requirements, but that was back before they had a separate list for erotic romance, so I figure that was it.

They've since started an erotic romance list. We reapplied, and were accepted for a 99 cent promo. It did good things in terms of sales for that book, as well as the second in the series.

sarahdalton
09-02-2013, 02:19 AM
July sales listed for self-published and hybrid authors. http://yearoftheindie.blogspot.co.uk/

writingnewbie
09-19-2013, 10:31 AM
July sales listed for self-published and hybrid authors. http://yearoftheindie.blogspot.co.uk/


Total Paid Sales For July
1 Jessica Sorenson Estimated 500,000


WOW!!!

writingnewbie
09-28-2013, 03:08 PM
http://yearoftheindie.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/august-2013-top-100-selling-indies.html

August

Captcha
09-28-2013, 04:43 PM
http://yearoftheindie.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/august-2013-top-100-selling-indies.html

August

I don't understand the linked chart - what are they the top 100 of?

Old Hack
09-28-2013, 06:46 PM
http://yearoftheindie.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/august-2013-top-100-selling-indies.html

August

Writingnewbie, this is a discussion board.

Provide context, give your opinions, ask questions. But please stop making declarations and posting links. It's not helpful.

sarahdalton
09-29-2013, 12:19 AM
I can shed some light on this. Year of the Indie is a blog run by Christiana Miller who asks for members of Kboards to share their sales data on a monthly basis. She then compiles the data--including analysing Amazon rankings for known high sellers like HM Ward and Hugh Howey--and lists the top 100 on her blog.

I've linked to the blog in this thread before so perhaps Writingnewbie thought we were already familiar. I'm only guessing though, obviously I don't know Writingnewbie's thoughts!

The data should of course be taken as anecdotal and from a small sample. But it is interesting to see nonetheless.

sarahdalton
09-29-2013, 12:34 AM
Just as an additional thought. If anyone wants to check out some more detailed statistics they should have a look at http://www.kboards.com/authors/ and add your own stats if you're self-published. At the moment it seems there's only anecdotal evidence out there so help enrich it by adding to it.

writingnewbie
10-02-2013, 07:22 AM
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57589733/couples-steamy-romance-e-books-save-their-home/
Couple's steamy romance e-books save their home

For those outside the US if CBS News video is blocked, youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uUyOEAc6Rc) link

From almost losing their house to self made millionaire.


In less than a year, they've sold nearly a million e-books.

amergina
10-02-2013, 08:42 AM
That's a neat story. It does show that the more titles you have out there, the better you do (assuming a certain level of decent writing ability) and all you need is one to take off.

It's still a hard road with the need for a little bit of luck and a lot of hard work. Kind of like the story of every best-seller.

But this isn't a new story (it's from July). I'm curious as to why you chose this link to share.

Do you have a blog or something you keep all these links in?

Old Hack
10-02-2013, 10:44 AM
I can't watch YouTube or anything similar on my connection, so I can't watch that clip at either link, writingnewbie. But if it illustrates a couple's huge success through self-publishing, then while it's interesting it's not typical.

Far better, I think, for our members to tell us about their own successes, which will, I hope, provide us with more realistic views.

mairi
10-03-2013, 12:06 AM
I love that interview! It was very inspiring. :)

Here's another one (http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/51a65a4e02a7606dc90001ff) of Jasinda with other self-pubbed millionaire authors.

writingnewbie
10-03-2013, 07:32 AM
I love that interview! It was very inspiring. :)

Here's another one (http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/51a65a4e02a7606dc90001ff) of Jasinda with other self-pubbed millionaire authors.

Thanks. I will check it out.

writingnewbie
10-09-2013, 03:06 PM
This author has posted his self publishing income.

Be warned: He's another outlier.

http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2013/10/guest-post-by-tom-keller-and-konrath.html

He breaks it down by self-published ebooks and by years (excluding his trade novels and his seven Amazon Publishing novels).





These include free downloads and KOLL borrows,

Don't let these numbers discourage you, and at the same time don't assume you'll be able to replicate them.

Also look at some of my individual titles and see how few they're selling. I've had some big hits, but the majority of my books have modest, and even lackluster, sales. But when you have a lot of titles, even modest sales can add up.

I'm sharing these numbers with you to show you what is possible. In fact, a lot more is possible, because there are many authors outselling me.

.
.
.
.

Grand Total $1,591,362.71


Look like for every self-published ebook he sold ("over one million") he has given away 1.5.


His biggest self-published earners to date:


The List--- 332,786----- $226,535.57
Trapped--- 177,366------ $159,242.24
Endurance--- 118,728----- $124,954.46
Origin--- 121,596----- $117,055.29
Whiskey Sour--- 191,427 ------$101,060.02
Bloody Mary--- 186,848----- $83,598.86
Shot of Tequila--- 113,331----- $70,058.98
Rusty Nail--- 97,405----- $58,198.85
Serial Uncut--- 33,110--- $48,630.51
Dirty Martini Fuzzy Navel, Cherry Bomb--- 6,717----- $42,749.23



He also breaks it down by year....The total includes freebies.

I wonder how much he is making off his seven Amazon Publishing novels. That would be a good comparison.

Old Hack
10-09-2013, 04:12 PM
There's a useful discussion of Konrath's writing career here (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244666), for anyone who hasn't already seen it.

writingnewbie
10-10-2013, 12:01 PM
There's a useful discussion of Konrath's writing career here (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244666), for anyone who hasn't already seen it.

To those who haven't already seen it: I would suggest that it would be more useful to read Konrath original story first
http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2010/12/bedtime-story.html

then read HapiSofi's rebuttal to Konrath linked by Old Hack.
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244666

I did it the other way around. Wasn't as helpful.

Sheryl Nantus
10-10-2013, 05:53 PM
To those who haven't already seen it: I would suggest that it would be more useful to read Konrath original story first
http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2010/12/bedtime-story.html

then read HapiSofi's rebuttal to Konrath linked by Old Hack.
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244666

I did it the other way around. Wasn't as helpful.

Believe it or not, most of us have been around for months. Years. Decades.

You seem to be thinking we have no idea what we're talking about. I noted in a previous post that maybe you should do more reading than posting - almost everything you're preaching has already been noted, discussed, discussed again and researched.

We know what's going on. Why aren't you taking advantage of our knowledge to go further rather than beating dead horses again and again?

writingnewbie
10-11-2013, 10:14 AM
Believe it or not, most of us have been around for months. Years. Decades.

You seem to be thinking we have no idea what we're talking about.

When did I ever think that? Please don't make assumption on what I am thinking.



We know what's going on.

I don't think any author ever know everything that is going on. The publishing landscape is changing all the time, especially in the last few years. What might be true 3 years ago might not be true today.


Why aren't you taking advantage of our knowledge to go further rather than beating dead horses again and again?

I am learning a lot about publishing from AW. I'm researching a lot about the business of publishing and the evolving nature of publishing due to the digital shift. So I am taking advantage of the knowledge provided by everyone on AW. That doesn't mean that I have to agree with all the knowledge provided here. Some of the knowledge might not be up to date. For example, what Old Hack wrote on another thread (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8467842&postcount=80):

A lot of self publishing marketing and promotion is directed at other self publishers. My extremely unsafe conclusion is that a significant proportion of self publishing sales will therefore be made to people in the self publishing community.


What I have found from researching paints a different picture:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/04/09/barnes-and-noble-relabels-pubit-as-nook-press/

Customer demand for great independent content continues to dramatically increase as 30% of NOOK customers purchase self-published content each month, representing 25% of NOOK Book™ sales every month.

This number is likely even higher at Amazon Kindle store. Though we don't know for sure since Amazon never release similar info. Here's an unscientific "guess"
http://www.thepassivevoice.com/04/2013/self-publishing-grabs-huge-market-share-from-traditional-publishers/



Today, you’ll see that the book at #100 in the Indie chart is #346 in the overall Kindle Store – meaning that 29% of the top-selling items in the Kindle Store are self-published e-books – and that proportion has been stable enough recently.

This roughly tallies with the limited data we do have from Amazon, who recently announced the top-selling Kindle Books of 2013 (January to March). Seven of the Top 20 were self-published (and that’s not counting formerly self-published work, or Amazon imprint books).

Old Hack
10-11-2013, 11:01 AM
I don't think any author ever know everything that is going on. The publishing landscape is changing all the time, especially in the last few years. What might be true 3 years ago might not be true today.

I've worked in publishing for nearly thirty years now (eeep!) and in all that time the publishing landscape has been changing and your three-year point has been true. There have always been people saying that publishers won't keep up or that everything will be transformed by new ways of working, and just as in every other aspect of life, this has been true in part while being completely ridiculous in other ways.


I am learning a lot about publishing from AW. I'm researching a lot about the business of publishing and the evolving nature of publishing due to the digital shift. So I am taking advantage of the knowledge provided by everyone on AW. That doesn't mean that I have to agree with all the knowledge provided here. Some of the knowledge might not be up to date. For example, what Old Hack wrote on another thread (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8467842&postcount=80):

A lot of self publishing marketing and promotion is directed at other self publishers. My extremely unsafe conclusion is that a significant proportion of self publishing sales will therefore be made to people in the self publishing community.

As I said, my conclusion is extremely unsafe. But the things you posted to show I was wrong didn't actually disprove my point: they just talked about the proportion of self published sales vs. trade published sales.

gingerwoman
10-11-2013, 11:13 AM
WriterNewbie you may not realize but many of your posts come across as putting down trade published authors. That's why some of us find your posts offensive.
Also how on earth does what you linked to (an advertisement for Barnes and Noble's self publishing software) disprove Old Hack's comment?
There is no way you can disprove Old Hack's comment that the majority of self published books might be bought by other self publishers.You seem to have been desperately trying to disprove it in more than one thread, and sorry nothing you post disproves it, or can disprove it.

writingnewbie
10-11-2013, 01:09 PM
WriterNewbie you may not realize but many of your posts come across as putting down trade published authors. That's why some of us find your posts offensive.

I am sorry you feel that way but I have never put any trade published authors down. Most of my favorite authors are from trade publishing.

Can you cite some of my posts that have put down trade published authors? that you deemed offensive?

Here's my post history on AW. http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/search.php?searchid=23602824





Also how on earth does what you linked to (an advertisement for Barnes and Noble's self publishing software) disprove Old Hack's comment?
There is no way you can disprove Old Hack's comment that the majority of self published books might be bought by other self publishers.You seem to have been desperately trying to disprove it in more than one thread, and sorry nothing you post disproves it, or can disprove it.

How about using logic and reasoning then?

Ask yourself this: do self publishers make up such a large portion of NOOK customers?

30% of NOOK customers purchase self-published content each month. If the majority of these 30% are self-publishers, then self-publishers make up more than 15% of NOOK month customers.

I don't think the percentage is that high.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/04/business/media/barnes-noble-to-add-google-apps-to-nook.html?_r=0


To date, Barnes & Noble has sold more than 10 million Nooks in the United States; it introduced the product in 2009 as e-book sales took off.

Let's be conservative and use 5 million Nook ebook buyers.

If there are 5 million Nook customers, 15% would equal 750,000. I don't think there are that many self publishers out there. And Nook only has 20-25% ebook markets, which mean if Nook has 750,000 self-publishers as buyers, then Amazon would have around 2 million.

This is just my logic and reasoning.

I have found that readers buy books they want to read. They don't normally buy books to support the author publishing background.

girlyswot
10-11-2013, 02:28 PM
Can you cite some of my posts that have put down trade published authors? that you deemed offensive?

I looked through your post history and found that there are a large number of posts in which you have had to clarify, explain or defend a previous post you've made. Perhaps it would save you this effort if your initial posts were clearer, or more closely connected to the ongoing discussions, so that they didn't cause so much misunderstanding.

sarahdalton
10-11-2013, 03:06 PM
It just doesn't make sense to me that self-published books are mostly bought by self-published authors. What about big genres like YA where the readership is from teens upward? There aren't many 13-20 year old self-publishers, that's for sure.

I'm not gonna lie, I found it insulting that people really believe the significant proportion of self-published books are bought by self-publishers. However, I'm going to attempt to refrain from discussing it further (it's too tempting to get dragged into these debates) and leave it at that.

gingerwoman
10-11-2013, 04:01 PM
There are actually multitudes of teens writing short stories and novels and self publishing. All the under 18yr olds have to do is get a parent or guardian to sign the contract. Teens have caught on that they can do this.

amergina
10-11-2013, 06:26 PM
I am sorry you feel that way but I have never put any trade published authors down. Most of my favorite authors are from trade publishing.

Can you cite some of my posts that have put down trade published authors? that you deemed offensive?

Here's my post history on AW. http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/search.php?searchid=23602824


I find it interesting that whenever someone says that your posts come off in a condescending or teaching-from-on-high manner, your response is to tell the other person they are wrong and you want them to point out EXACTLY where you did that.

It's always the reader's fault.

It couldn't possibly be that you're expressing yourself incorrectly.

writingnewbie
10-12-2013, 07:14 AM
However, I'm going to attempt to refrain from discussing it further (it's too tempting to get dragged into these debates) and leave it at that.

Good advice.

Now, back to the thread at hand:

This is another outlier. Her success demonstrates what could be possible, not what could be probable.


http://www.theresaragan.com/p/welcome.html
How I Got Started


After writing for 20 years, Theresa self-published in 2011 and boy is she glad she did! She went on to sell over 550,000 books in less than two years and signed her first publishing contract with Thomas & Mercer in 2012. She can't wait to wake up every morning and write.


After 20 years of rejections...success. Never give up. 450,000 on my own + 200,000 with Thomas & Mercer


http://www.theresaragan.com/p/links.html
Self-Publishing Tips

merrihiatt
10-12-2013, 09:16 AM
Personally, I don't need pie in the sky stories about self-publishing to motivate me to keep writing. I prefer to read the stories of people here at AW who seem to have realistic goals and expectations. I enjoy reading about what they've tried and what they believe has helped or hindered their journey.

I think it's great that some authors have done exceptionally well self-publishing, but that doesn't mean that those who haven't fared as well have less credibility.

Old Hack
10-12-2013, 01:06 PM
A few days ago I wrote,


I can't watch YouTube or anything similar on my connection, so I can't watch that clip at either link, writingnewbie. But if it illustrates a couple's huge success through self-publishing, then while it's interesting it's not typical.

Far better, I think, for our members to tell us about their own successes, which will, I hope, provide us with more realistic views.

My bold. I wrote that because this thread was started by someone who wasn't interested in reading about the few people who have done well; he wanted a more realistic idea of the success he could expect if he self published his books. This is what he asked:


I'm sorry if this sounds silly or shallow in any way, but... long story short, I'm a broke college student with a couple of completed YA manuscripts sitting on my harddrive taking up space. I was thinking of uploading some to Smashwords as a source of supplemental income. Even if it's 20 extra dollars a month or something, I do not really care. I am mostly interested in the type of money people have made from this venture. Yes, I enjoy writing and all, but I also happen to be desperate for money and many people have said they enjoy my work, so I figured this was as good an option as any.

Thoughts? How much money have you made from, say, an average-selling e-book?

My bold.

Despite my request writingnewbie came back with this:


This author has posted his self publishing income.

Be warned: He's another outlier.

<snipped>

And this:


Good advice.

Now, back to the thread at hand:

This is another outlier. Her success demonstrates what could be possible, not what could be probable.

<snipped>

Writingnewbie, I made a gentle request that we get back on-topic, and you ignored it.

You also pulled in a quote of mine from another thread, thereby dragging some of that discussion here and leading this thread astray. Writingnewbie, I've watched several conversations you've taken part in become confusing and convoluted because you've brought in other threads in this way. It's not appropriate.

You also have a habit of making long posts full of links which lack any real content or analysis, which adds to the confusion which develops in the threads you contribute to.

You've been given several gentle warnings and lots of advice on how to do better, but you don't seem to have taken any of it on board. Consequently, I'm going to give you a five day time-out. You'll be able to read the threads here while you're on your time-out, but you won't be able to contribute.

I hope you'll use this time off to work out how to participate in conversations more constructively. If you don't manage that, then your posting privileges will be permanently removed.


I'm not gonna lie, I found it insulting that people really believe the significant proportion of self-published books are bought by self-publishers. However, I'm going to attempt to refrain from discussing it further (it's too tempting to get dragged into these debates) and leave it at that.

If you objected to my comment then you could have reported the post to the room mods, or you could have shown where my reasoning was wrong; or you could have PMed me, and discussed this with me in private.

Instead you chose to take offense, complain in public, and throw in some dismissive passive-aggression too. You can be so much better than that, Sarah, and I'm disappointed in you.

Old Hack
10-12-2013, 01:09 PM
Personally, I don't need pie in the sky stories about self-publishing to motivate me to keep writing. I prefer to read the stories of people here at AW who seem to have realistic goals and expectations. I enjoy reading about what they've tried and what they believe has helped or hindered their journey.

I think it's great that some authors have done exceptionally well self-publishing, but that doesn't mean that those who haven't fared as well have less credibility.

That's the perfect note to end on, I think. Thanks, Merri.

AW Admin
10-12-2013, 05:22 PM
I'm going to overrule Old Hack. writingnewbie, like sarahdalton, has been relentlessly snotty. I don't really see either of them as contributing to the community, and neither are welcome here.