Proofreading Course. Opinions?

[ScottMc]

I've been away from the site for a couple of months since becoming frustrated with my (first) novel, but in the last week I've returned to writing. Egal.

That aside, I've been seriously considering taking up proofreading, maybe moving on to copy editing afterwards, but one step at a time, right?
I've placed bids on Peopleperhour for proofreading jobs, but of course the people who win the bids will be qualified proofreaders, people who have credentials.
Now, I know my command of the English language is excellent and I have a good eye for spelling and grammar. But I also know that there's alot more to proofreading than just those things. Also, my school grades were abysmal and my English GCSE grade of D was by no means a reflection of my abilities. My only English language grade is an exam I took as an adult, called Adult Literacy Level 2.

What experience do any of you have with going from nothing to becoming a proofreader? Has anyone taken a course to become a certified proofreader and, if so, what was the course and would you recommend it?
I'm looking at enrolling with Chapterhouse - a 20-year-old UK organisation which specialises in proofreading courses. Has anyone had experience with Chapterhouse, or any similar UK organisations?

I would have to do distance learning as I live in Germany. This is quite important to me because I don't have a job, other than my writing, which I want to focus on. I may have become disillusioned but I'm not giving up.

[areteus]

I would look into getting hold of some books on grammar and punctuation and doing some reading, maybe sign up for an OU course in something like English to improve your knowledge and replace those qualifications. First bump the English course up to a level 3 first (equivilent of A level, there are HE access courses which may help here) and then look at level 4 courses. I am sure you can find an OU course out there for editing skills (they do a creative writing one).

I mention OU because, despite thier fees going up recently (like all universities...) they are a well recognised provider of distance learning with responsibility to the same authorities as 'real' universities are with respect to how they give out their degrees (i.e. they have to be internally and externally moderated by other universities to avoid giving away worthless qualifications). So, you know where you stand with them whereas a random company on the internet... well, they may be ok, may even be the best proofreading course in the world, but there is always a risk they are not and there are too many 'buy your degree' scams out there to not be careful (which I guess is why you are asking this question here...).

Are there not any colleges in Germany local to you who you can get a proper face to face course with? Or are you worried about a language barrier?

[Fallen]

I proof for an american publishing company (a bit of a sod considering I'm English). I don't have any proofreading credentials and the publishing company knew that when they took me on. I offered to start at the bottom with no pay (they do give you the opportunity to move up in the company). So I have 'on the job' training. I hold a degree in English Language/Linguistics, which no doubt helped in the application, but to be honest, they had their own skills evaluation test for proofers that you need to take. And that swings it in the end more than anything else.

Have you thought about trying it that way? Maybe be direct and ask to be trained with a company? But be careful, there are some dodgy ones out there.

I know mine is romance, but it pays advances and gives me a weekly fix in one of my reading tastes :D

It's helped me no-end with my own writing, not to mention all the free reads I get. Deadlines are hard to get in to, but you set yourself a limit each day and it takes the pressure off.

[Deirdre]

UC Berkeley offers them. (http://extension.berkeley.edu/spos/edit.html)

[ScottMc]

Thanks for the replies, guys.
I've had a look at the Open University, but the mandatory Level 1 entrants course, something about the arts, is a whopping £700.
Aside from being an Englishman living in Germany, I also have something of a disability in that I'm partially sighted.
Yes, I know that that doesn't put me in a favourable light as far as proofreading goes, but I can assure you my close-up central vision (with reading glasses) is fully intact, and my eye for detail is spot on.
So, my problem is that I have no job (aside from what I write, which can still only be considered as a pastime), and of course I have next to no income, so I can't afford a hefty course fee. A couple of hundred pounds/euros is about my limit.

@areteus: I didn't know that Adult Lit went past Level 2! I've had a look on the 'net for info on Levels 3 and 4 but I can't find anything. Do you have any links, by chance?
I'll definitely look further into HE courses, but I'm expecting them to be as expensive as the OU entry level courses. Certainly won't hurt to investigate, though.

@Fallen: I'd be happy to get my foot in the door as a free worker, unfortunately it's all about location and my location is a village in Germany. There's no English companies around here. If I was still in England I'd definitely look into it.

@Deirdre: Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately it's as expensive as OU. The online Composition and Literature course costs $715. Again, way out of my price league.

[areteus]

Not adult lit specifically but there are 'access to HE' courses which are designed to give you the required level 3 qualifications to get to university (they are designed for adults who did not go the A Level route after GCSEs). I am not sure if they are done by distance learning, though, most of the ones I know (and have taught) were based in a college. Though the last interview I went to for a job teaching these courses did mention that they were starting to do them on distance learning too.

Not sure what the unemployment benefits are like in Germany, but have you considered bursaries for courses? The job centres here may sometimes pay course fees for courses that will help you get a job and improving literacy is considered one of them (as are improving IT skills, numeracy and any job specific training). There is no harm in asking. And yes, I did say that they were expensive (same price as a regular university, unfortunately) but level 3 courses like access are often cheaper.

[Fallen]

@Fallen: I'd be happy to get my foot in the door as a free worker, unfortunately it's all about location and my location is a village in Germany. There's no English companies around here. If I was still in England I'd definitely look into it.



Location doesn't really matter, Scott. My company is American, I live in England: everything is done via the internet (including signing contracts). So long as you have a computer and net connection, you're good to go. ;) Positions do come up if you want to go down this path....

[ScottMc]

@areteus: I'll have to look deeper into 'Access to HE', so far I've come up with no distance learning courses with them, only with other companies, most of which look a little questionable.
I'll also be visiting the (not so) local jobcentre to see if they can offer any financial assistance. Although I do need to do a further German course at some point in the future, too. (I may be able to get a job as a traslator further down the line, but it's not the way I'd prefer to go if I still have the choice).

@Fallen: I'd be more than happy to do some sample work for a company, for free, for them to test my abilities. I'd certainly be more than happy to start working for zero wages, so long as it was likely to change if or when I passed the probationary period. I wouldn't know where to start looking for a company like that online, but if you have any suggestions I'd be willing to look into them. Definitely.

[areteus]

I'd also be interested in any potential editing work. Though my US editing skills are not good...

[Fallen]

@Fallen: I'd be more than happy to do some sample work for a company, for free, for them to test my abilities. I'd certainly be more than happy to start working for zero wages, so long as it was likely to change if or when I passed the probationary period. I wouldn't know where to start looking for a company like that online, but if you have any suggestions I'd be willing to look into them. Definitely.

You can approach any publisher and ask, hun. Some of the smaller e-companies even advertise on-site (Aspen mountain just ran went through a run of advertising for basic proofers, although they don't state whether you're likely to move up the ladder (I'd go for proofing that does)). It depends what genre you're in to.

It's experience if nothing else until, like you say, you either qualify or move up the ladder.

Other people may have a different view, though.

I think with basic proofers, companies are after the closest thing to a natural reader anyway: you're their tester subjects. And most companies like varying levels of 'expertease' from someone who just likes to read, to authors, to language buffs.

[ScottMc]

You can approach any publisher and ask, hun. Some of the smaller e-companies even advertise on-site (Aspen mountain just ran went through a run of advertising for basic proofers, although they don't state whether you're likely to move up the ladder (I'd go for proofing that does)). It depends what genre you're in to.

So far I've only turned up a company called 'Distributed Proofreaders' which is part of Project Gutenberg as far as I can tell. Anyway, I've joined as a volunteer proofer and I've proofed a few pages and waiting on them being checked. It may not give me any money but it's certainly practice and field-work which I can put in my credentials.
I'll keep looking for an actual publishing firm, and I'll occasinally make bids on Peopleperhour still, too.

Thanks for the suggestions, all. :)

[Old Hack]

Aspen mountain just ran went through a run of advertising for basic proofers, although they don't state whether you're likely to move up the ladder (I'd go for proofing that does)

Aspen Mountain Press (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69909) is currently having a lot of problems which as I understand it recently caused its editors to resign en masse. I wouldn't work for it if I expected to be paid for my work. Check out the more recent pages on my link.

And Scott, I don't mean to be nasty here: but your posts here don't give me any confidence in your ability to work as a proof reader or copy editor. You make a lot (not "alot") of basic errors, and I'm not sure you have the instincts or knowledge to be able to do the work required. I think your time would be spent more profitably looking into other possibilities. Sorry.


ETA: Chapterhouse isn't very well thought of in publishing, by the way, and I wouldn't spend money on taking that course if you're determined to go ahead with this plan. You'll get better help from the SfEP (http://www.sfep.org.uk/).

[ScottMc]

And Scott, I don't mean to be nasty here: but your posts here don't give me any confidence in your ability to work as a proof reader or copy editor. You make a lot (not "alot") of basic errors, and I'm not sure you have the instincts or knowledge to be able to do the work required. I think your time would be spent more profitably looking into other possibilities. Sorry.

Thanks for your reply, Old Hack. I know that I initially wrote 'command' as 'commmand' in the first post of this thread, but I didn't realise there were 'a lot' of other basic errors. Hands up to those two, at least.
I have to say, though, that I think it's quite unfair to judge a person's proof reading abilities by scrutinizing a post they make on a forum. If I was submitting a piece for scrutiny, that would be a different story.
To say I have neither the instincts nor the knowledge for proof reading is only half fair. I admit I don't have the knowledge of 'how' to proof read (that is purely because I haven't done any proofing), and I also admit that perhaps my grammar, punctuation and spelling isn't exemplary but, by Christ, when I read some of the novels of my favourite authors, I wonder how the hell some of those copy editors and proof readers ever landed themselves a job.

This thread wasn't meant as a job application, nor as a test piece to be checked. If anyone would like to proof my work then by all means go to my SYW threads which you'll find in my signature.

[Fallen]

Aspen Mountain Press (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69909) is currently having a lot of problems which as I understand it recently caused its editors to resign en masse. I wouldn't work for it if I expected to be paid for my work. Check out the more recent pages on my link.



Feck me... it's been a while since I checked with them. But a good point -- bloomin' look before you leap. Thank you, Old Hack.

[Old Hack]

I did take a look at your SYW writing, and I'm still concerned that you would not be spending your money wisely if you took a proof reading course.

Here's the thing. Proof reading and copy editing are difficult and to do them well you have to have an instinct for the written word: you have to be almost incapable of making a mistake when you write, even if you're writing on a casual level. Learning the rules isn't enough. You need that insinct too. And if you have it or don't, it's obvious. Whether you're scribbling a note for your milkman or writing a post on a forum, your writing has to be supple and clear and nicely-done. If you can't do that almost without thinking, you won't be able to maintain the levels of attention that you need to be able to proof read effectively.

This is why I prefer to work as an editor, and not as a copy editor or proof reader. I can do it: but it takes a lot more effort and concentration than I can give to a job for long.

I don't have enough of that instinct for how words fit together, and I don't think you do either.

Scott, I'm really not trying to make a dig at you: I am just very anxious that you're going to spend money you've made clear you can't afford on something that isn't going to be of much benefit to you. And I don't think that the course you've suggested is good, either, which makes me doubly concerned.

[Medievalist]

I have to say, though, that I think it's quite unfair to judge a person's proof reading abilities by scrutinizing a post they make on a forum. If I was submitting a piece for scrutiny, that would be a different story.

Scott, for a proofer, it's not. Good proofers, like good QA people, are almost biologically incapable of ignoring an error. They perceive text differently; it is as if the errors are so distracting that they cannot read past them.

Publishers who hire proofers generally look more at the proofers' abilities to score 99% or better on a test than at their education. Very very few people are actually professional level proofers; it's a rare collection of abilities. Moreover, they are required to proof a very large quantity of material very accurately, and very rapidly.

[ScottMc]

almost biologically incapable of ignoring an error. They perceive text differently; it is as if the errors are so distracting that they cannot read past them.
I appreciate that. Which is why this -
you have to be almost incapable of making a mistake when you write, even if you're writing on a casual level. Learning the rules isn't enough. You need that insinct too.
- stood out to me like a sore thumb.

See? Nobody's infallible. Which, I presume, is why a written work goes through several levels of scrutiny, including copy editors and proof readers.

What I dislike is not being given the chance. Fallen's story is inspirational. I admire someone who is willing to acknowledge they may not be the best, but who is willing also to start at the bottom and learn. As I've said before, there seem to be a lot of editors, etc. who aren't very good at their jobs. Many of the novels I have from leading authors of their genres prove just this. When I can spot at least a hundred mistakes in a Stephen King novel (not one of my favourite authors, by the way), then that says a lot about the 'Master of Horror's editors, does it not?

Anyway, I don't want this thread to turn into a dispute about whether or not I'm good enough to be a proof reader. I'd rather it stayed informative for those people who want the chance to at least try.

[Medievalist]

When I can spot at least a hundred mistakes in a Stephen King novel (not one of my favourite authors, by the way), then that says a lot about the 'Master of Horror's editors, does it not?

No, actually, it doesn't say a damn thing about the editor.

Ultimately, it says something about the typesetter.

The typesetter is the last set of eyes for a ms.

If you're seeing that many errors—and if they're actually errors not differences of usage or style—there's been a screw up on the workflow. Often when there are that many errors, the wrong file was accidentally submitted to the printer.

Anyway, I don't want this thread to turn into a dispute about whether or not I'm good enough to be a proof reader. I'd rather it stayed informative for those people who want the chance to at least try.

Apply for jobs and take the tests that the employers asks you to take. If you pass them to the employer's satisfaction, then you're fine.

[Old Hack]

almost biologically incapable of ignoring an error. They perceive text differently; it is as if the errors are so distracting that they cannot read past them.

I appreciate that. Which is why this -

you have to be almost incapable of making a mistake when you write, even if you're writing on a casual level. Learning the rules isn't enough. You need that insinct too.

- stood out to me like a sore thumb.

See? Nobody's infallible.

You're right: nobody's infallible, and if you read on you'll have noticed that further on in that same post I wrote this:

This is why I prefer to work as an editor, and not as a copy editor or proof reader. I can do it: but it takes a lot more effort and concentration than I can give to a job for long.

I don't have enough of that instinct for how words fit together, and I don't think you do either.(Ha! I got it right that time.)

See? I already pointed out that I'm not the best copy editor in the world. I know it. You seem to have missed that. Just as you haven't noticed all the mistakes that you've made.

I could stop trying to help you and instead start a pissing contest with you by pointing out every single error you've made in this thread. There are plenty. But unlike you I don't think that sort of thing is helpful or constructive.

What I dislike is not being given the chance.How has anyone here denied you the chance to do what you want? We've not barricaded your door, cut off your phone and stopped you signing up to any courses you want: all we've done is give you some good advice, which you are free to ignore if you prefer. And it seems that you do. Good luck with that.

[Medievalist]

- stood out to me like a sore thumb.

You know, I was going to just roll my eyes, and pass on whilst muttering things about the Dunning–Kruger effect.

But the more I thought about your response to Old Hack, the more you pissed me off.

Dude, if you want a job as a proofer, and you can't fucking edit your own prose so that you have fewer basic errors in grammar and spelling than someone who is severely dyslexic and legally blind (which would be me) you're not anywhere close to being a professional level proofer.

[ScottMc]

No offence, but "your posts here don't give me any confidence in your ability to work as a proof reader or copy editor" isn't quite what I would call advice. I do appreciate the rest of the advice that you and others have given, but I take offence at my abilities being judged on the merits of a quickly-typed forum thread.
I appreciate that you've been in this game a lot longer than a little fresh fish like me, but don't we all have to start somewhere? I've joined Distributed Proofreaders and I'm willing to work for free, and the more field work I do the better I'll become. Like with fiction writing: I know I'm not great, but I enjoy it and I think it through and I keep trying to improve. Eventually I hope to be good enough.

Thank you all for the responses...

[areteus]

Another thing to point out... I am great at spotting errors in someone else's work but absolutely terrible at spotting it in my own.

Not sure if you can get access to these or not but online somewhere are some practise tests for the teacher QTS skills tests. One of these is a literacy test which involves several literacy based skills - including a proofreading test. It's a timed test (about 45 minutes) includes some comprehension, some editing and similar. At the end you get a score and an indication if you would pass the real thing or not (I think it also gives a breakdown of where you lost points - I don't know, I never did the practise just jumped straight into the live test :) ).

Give it a go and see how well you do. Editing tests for publishers are actually very similar (at least in my experience). Though be warned that you have to be aware of the sometimes quite subtle differences between US and UK grammar.

[ScottMc]

You know, I was going to just roll my eyes, and pass on whilst muttering things about the Dunning–Kruger effect.

But the more I thought about your response to Old Hack, the more you pissed me off.

Dude, if you want a job as a proofer, and you can't fucking edit your own prose so that you have fewer basic errors in grammar and spelling than someone who is severely dyslexic and legally blind (which would be me) you're not anywhere close to being a professional level proofer.

Congratulations, Medievalist. That's probably about as unprofessional a response as I could have hoped to receive on this thread. And by the way, I also am legally fucking blind, so don't play that card with me.
You've come onto my thread and not even given a single piece of information relevant to the topic, so get off your high horse, dude, and go and derail someone else's thread.

Can anyone tell me how I can block someone on this site?

Medievalist, you might have 18k posts under your belt, but I certainly hope they're not all effing and blinding like this one.

[ScottMc]

Another thing to point out... I am great at spotting errors in someone else's work but absolutely terrible at spotting it in my own.

Not sure if you can get access to these or not but online somewhere are some practise tests for the teacher QTS skills tests. One of these is a literacy test which involves several literacy based skills - including a proofreading test. It's a timed test (about 45 minutes) includes some comprehension, some editing and similar. At the end you get a score and an indication if you would pass the real thing or not (I think it also gives a breakdown of where you lost points - I don't know, I never did the practise just jumped straight into the live test :) ).

Give it a go and see how well you do. Editing tests for publishers are actually very similar (at least in my experience). Though be warned that you have to be aware of the sometimes quite subtle differences between US and UK grammar.

Perfect, areteus, thank you! :) That's definitely something that would help me. I'll have a search for them.
And you're right, I find it much simpler to spot mistakes in others' work rather than my own.

[Medievalist]

Can anyone tell me how I can block someone on this site?

Yes, right here.

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208010


Medievalist, you might have 18k posts under your belt, but I certainly hope they're not all effing and blinding like this one.


You'll need this one too. (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61043)

[ScottMc]

Yes, right here.

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208010





You'll need this one too. (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61043)

There's an irony here, surely! :D The very person who I want to add to my ignore list is the same one who both provides me with the link and who also is the 'author' of the thread which shows us how to add someone to the ignore list! Priceless! Many thanks, Medievalist.

As to your second link which you so generously provided, I do hate to let you down but I won't be making an exit speech any time soon. Thanks for the thought, though. ;)

[SRHowen]

I saw this thread and was bored so read it--only thing I can say is that those of us who are legally blind should start our own thread in Office Party. I work as an editor, so I have worked with proofers and copy editors.

They do have this instinct for seeing stuff others don't see, like it is a red flag they can't ignore. I used to be good at it, now I don't see things I used to and it takes me a danged long time to read anything these days in 32 pt font on my 32 inch monitor. You can take a course in how to do it and what to look for, but that course can't you to do it instinctively.

I do wildlife rescue and rehab, and even legally blind I see stuff other people miss when out on a trail with someone who doesn't have the instincts to do it. The tracks, the raccoon rolled in a ball off in the woods thinking they are hidden. Those with the instincts "just" see it.

I work as an editor, so most of my first drafts are pretty error free as far as editorial things go, I make typos like crazy do the danged vision being so poor--and I use Dragon and that will make errors as well, so I would assume that a proofer or copy editor would produce copy pretty free of errors no matter what they were writing.

As to King and errors in his work, King and many other top sellers have reached a point where they can say nope don't want anyone to touch my work and no one is going to, not saying this is what King did in whatever book you read, but it could be.

You have the talent to tell a story with engaging prose, i'd work on cleaning up the mechanics and selling your work.

Take a proofing course and an English course (it can't hurt), see if you can do the work required. I know I can't anymore, not enough vision left to do so. But i can still write and writing may be where you should look to improving and making income.

[ScottMc]

Thank you once again for the encouraging words, SRH :)
I'm definitely keeping going with the writing, the only issue is the lack of income. In England I'm registered blind, but Germany's rules are much stricter and thus I'm not even registered as partially sighted or disabled at all. No registration, no DLA or similar.

Your idea of a blind/ps thread is a sound one, unfortunately as you've no doubt noticed, at least two legally blind people on this site already can't get on. And since there can't be that many of us... well I'll let it hang there, I think. You've read the thread. :)

I'll have a look at doing smaller courses and tests that cost less than a small fortune, mainly to improve my fiction writing rather than proof reading. This thread has put me off that idea somewhat, sadly.

[Old Hack]

Scott, I'm sorry that you've found this thread so difficult: but I'm glad that it's put you off the idea of proof reading, as no matter how much I think about it I don't think it's a good idea for you and I'd hate to see anyone spending money on something that wasn't going to work out for them.

What I have found an excellent way of making money, however, is writing articles. So long as you can write a coherent, logical and interesting piece, you behave professionally, you pitch your ideas in an appropriate way and you meet your deadlines you'll soon find yourself being asked for pieces. It's a good way to earn. It takes discipline, but it can be very nicely lucrative. I get paid between £100 to £450 per thousand words, and I can write an article in a single afternoon.

You'll have to start in lower-paying markets, but they're easier to get into and give you a chance to explore what you want to specialise in. Work out what you know a lot about, then declare yourself an expert--of sorts--in that, and start pitching. After a few publications you can move up to the higher-paying publications and so long as you're professional in your approach you'll soon be asked to write to order.

I bet you have all sorts of stuff you can write about but off the top of my head you could write about the ex-pat life; you could write about living with a disability; you could even write about how to develop the insincts (!) required to recognise what's not for you.

[ScottMc]

@Old Hack: That certainly sounds like a fine idea. Something I'd be better suited looking into, by the sounds of it.

As I said before, I do fully appreciate your advice, and I further appreciate the fact that you have kept more than a modicum of respect to your words, even if some of them did cut to the bone.

I'd like to look into article writing, starting, as you suggested, low-key. If anyone could nod in a particular direction there, that would be helpful. If not, no worries, I've got plenty of time to navigate my way through Google. :)

@areteus: I located the QTS Literacy Skills Tests and took the online practice test, and passed.
Spelling 9/10
Punctuation 11/15
Grammar 10/11
Comprehension 11/12
I think the Punctuation results show that Old Hack is correct.

@everyone: What this thread really didn't need was someone coming in and stirring things up needlessly. I'd rather put that aside and try to agree to disagree with Medievalist's way of communicating with people, especially when Old Hack did absolutely fine without the additional 'support'. Good, old-fashioned decency wins the day over effing and jeffing, every time.
Thank you to the people who kept things informative, helpful and respectful.

[Old Hack]

@Old Hack: That certainly sounds like a fine idea. Something I'd be better suited looking into, by the sounds of it.

You're welcome. I was meant to be talking about making money by writing articles at a writers' conference last June, but had to cancel: I'm hoping to blog about it in detail sooner rather than later. It's remarkably easy to get started if you go about it the right way: succeeding depends more on your talent and attitude, though, so that's up to you.

As I said before, I do fully appreciate your advice, and I further appreciate the fact that you have kept more than a modicum of respect to your words, even if some of them did cut to the bone.

Writers have to be able to accept criticism and editorial advice. The more professional you are about it, the better you'll do.

Try to remember this thread the next time you feel like kicking off when a publishing professional gives you some advice, ok?

I'd like to look into article writing, starting, as you suggested, low-key. If anyone could nod in a particular direction there, that would be helpful. If not, no worries, I've got plenty of time to navigate my way through Google. :)

Visit some news agents. Buy up three or four magazines in your chosen area that you can actually find on the news stands (because they're the ones which are going to have a higher circulation, and so are going to be more likely to pay). Read them from cover to cover and make notes for each title about their probable target market, the subjects they've covered, and the subjects they've not covered. Think about how you can write about the things they have covered from a different angle, or how you can fill in the gaps in their coverage. Do this for three or four months in a row then you'll be ready to pitch. Do not pitch without having read at least three issues of a publication.

@areteus: I located the QTS Literacy Skills Tests and took the online practice test, and passed.
Spelling 9/10
Punctuation 11/15
Grammar 10/11
Comprehension 11/12
I think the Punctuation results show that Old Hack is correct.

Just to warn anyone who might come along and read this thread in years to come, copy editing and proof reading are so much more than checking punctuation, spelling and grammar. These tests are ok, but they don't show how well-suited you are for this career. They might show how you're not well-suited to it, however.

@everyone: What this thread really didn't need was someone coming in and stirring things up needlessly. I'd rather put that aside and try to agree to disagree with Medievalist's way of communicating with people, especially when Old Hack did absolutely fine without the additional 'support'. Good, old-fashioned decency wins the day over effing and jeffing, every time.
Thank you to the people who kept things informative, helpful and respectful.

And you were doing so very well, Scott. Why did you have to come back and make this dig? It really wasn't necessary.

[SRHowen]

I'll also add to check out the Writer's Market (book or online) for magazines, it tells you what they are looking for and it is a good guide to give you sources to look into.

Are you any good at writing resumes? Good money in that.

Germany also has many different clearing house agencies whose sole purpose is to recruit writers to write articles that they are contracted for.

I tried the number I had for the editor I worked for there, it's disconnected (it has been 11 years since I worked for him) but you may want to look into that. I found him in the first place by looking at the publishing credits in ADAC magazine there.

[areteus]

You did well... I am not sure what my breakdown was (if you pass the live test you only get the total score. You only get a breakdown if you fail...).

And no, they are not always good tests. However, one thing to consider about this one is that it was set to test ability to read and understand a complex piece of text very quickly as well as spot errors. The one I did was, however, very close to an editing test I did a short while later (in that you get given a text and told to edit it and you get scored based on how well you do).

[lindseyanne]

I'd like to look into article writing, starting, as you suggested, low-key. If anyone could nod in a particular direction there, that would be helpful. If not, no worries, I've got plenty of time to navigate my way through Google. :)


You may try SEO writing to start with, it will give you the ability to research and write quickly which will help you if you begin writing articles or columns for magazines later. It doesn't pay well, but any money is welcome when you don't have a job -- speaking from experience. I've been writing with TCA since June and have worked myself up to tier 4, which gives me the ability to make $50 USD an hour or more if I sit down and dedicate myself to the work.

[writerjohnb]

Scott,

I freelance copy-edit and have made some decent money at it. One of the things I try to be careful of? Typos or mistakes in any of my writing. I work on some sites that have service providers who list their services as "writters" and say they are "profesional" and "accerate" and "perfetionists." Your reputation is only as good as the samples you provide. I won't let anything leave my computer unless I've read it over at least twice to eliminate mistakes.

One of the sites I use is "elance." They provide tests to accurately judge how good you are in many areas. http://www.elance.com You can list on this site and also post your test scores to show clients that you are, indeed, skilled, even if you don't have experience or credits.

[Old Hack]

Elance looks very interesting.

But I'm not sure that Elance could provide a test which would show anyone how good one was at copy editing because it's such a complex, intuitive task and so much more than just checking spellings, punctuation and so on.

[Fruitbat]

One of the sites I use is "elance." They provide tests to accurately judge how good you are in many areas. http://www.elance.com You can list on this site and also post your test scores to show clients that you are, indeed, skilled, even if you don't have experience or credits.

Thanks for that! :)

[writerjohnb]

Elance looks very interesting.

But I'm not sure that Elance could provide a test which would show anyone how good one was at copy editing because it's such a complex, intuitive task and so much more than just checking spellings, punctuation and so on.

The tests are for Academic, Business, Creative and Content writing. Also proofreading skills, AP, Chicago, and Oxford. Punctuation and mechanics, spelling, sentence structure, grammar, etc. are also included in both U.S. and U.K. variations. These tests are not easy, by any stretch.

I agree there's an intuitive side to copy-editing, but proofreading requires knowledge based on concrete rules.

It's a very competitive site; I've been bidding on jobs there for a couple of months, but haven't broken in yet. However, I'm very selective, only bidding on a few projects that catch my interest and I confine myself to fiction, where I'm comfortable.

Take care,

JohnB