Question about withdrawal on acceptance by another journal

If you have responded positively to an offer of publication, either verbally or by email, you are being unprofessional to rescind that response because another "better" offer has come along.

Technically and legally nothing is final until both parties sign the contract. At this point, both have a legal obligation to fulfill the terms or risk being sued for breach.

However, if you make an informal acceptance of an offer in writing (i.e. in an e-mail) or even (I think) verbally then there is still some legal backing to that which a good lawyer could work with against you. And it is generally considered bad form to do this anyway, not without a damn good reason...

areteus said:

Technically and legally nothing is final until both parties sign the contract. At this point, both have a legal obligation to fulfill the terms or risk being sued for breach.

However, if you make an informal acceptance of an offer in writing (i.e. in an e-mail) or even (I think) verbally then there is still some legal backing to that which a good lawyer could work with against you. And it is generally considered bad form to do this anyway, not without a damn good reason...

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Actually, I don't think this is true. If their terms are spelled out and you submit, that's an offer. If they then accept, there's a contract whether there's further paperwork or not. Also, in many jurisdictions, an email is "in writing."

Which is exactly what I said - an e-mail offer has some legal backing. Though a contract is definitely legally binding...

No, what I meant: the act of submitting is acceptance of the offer if the terms are clearly defined in guidelines. The editor's agreement to publish the submission completes the contract.

Obviously, in the case where terms are unstated, that's not the same, but for many journals, they specify rights and payment right in the guidelines.

So it really depends, doesn't it? In no case does ink need to be dry (though that is a desired formality).

My first check and contract for a short came in the same envelope.

To diagram this a bit:

(clear guidelines about rights and payments) + submission ( = acceptance of offer in guidelines) + editor's agreement to publish = contract

(fuzzy guidelines) + submission + editor's acceptance ( = offer ) + submitter's acceptance = contract

Two very different routes, and you've got to be careful, imho.

This is, btw, why some people find out they've been accepted when they get the check and the issue in the mail....and why simsubs can be so problematic. I hope for the OP's sake that both places accept simsubs.

But even in that case you will get a contract which will restate the terms in case you failed to read them earlier...

Most I have seen have vague or changeable terms which get clarified on acceptance and this is the first time I have heard of getting a cheque with the acceptance letter... but then most of the ones I have put in for are royalty only (in that they don't give a flat fee for the story in advance but pay you after publication)

I've only had a couple of pieces placed in magazines (which is what we're talking about here), and none of them had contracts. And they were all in the days before e-mail.

Every single story I've sold, via email or snail mail, has had a contract associated. The only piece without a contract was a poem I submitted to a small press when I was 13, back in the early 80s, where the acceptance letter came with a check.

I agree that it's bad form to accept an offer through email and then back out afterwards, especially if your reason is that you got a better offer. That's why simsubbing is so frowned on. I have withdrawn a piece exactly once in this way, and it was because the contract wasn't acceptable and the publisher wouldn't change it.

I typically respond to an email of acceptance by saying something like, "I'm delighted you can use my story." I try not to make any formal acceptance of their offer until I get the contract (in which case I'll add, "I look forward to working with you"). I don't know if that would make any difference to a lawyer, though.

Terie said:

I've only had a couple of pieces placed in magazines (which is what we're talking about here), and none of them had contracts. And they were all in the days before e-mail.

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I've had probably 2-3 dozen pieces published the same way.

Saanen said:

I typically respond to an email of acceptance by saying something like, "I'm delighted you can use my story." I try not to make any formal acceptance of their offer until I get the contract (in which case I'll add, "I look forward to working with you"). I don't know if that would make any difference to a lawyer, though.

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My point is that you may have already entered into a contract, depending on circumstances, and that your formal acceptance may not be necessary -- depending on the terms in the guidelines. (In the case you mention where the terms weren't acceptable, obviously, if you knew that, you wouldn't have submitted.)

I'm not a lawyer, but I do read legal cases as kind of a weird hobby, and you'd be surprised how informal contracts frequently are...which then seem to wind up as legal cases because one party doesn't think there's really a contract.

Deirdre said:

My point is that you may have already entered into a contract, depending on circumstances, and that your formal acceptance may not be necessary -- depending on the terms in the guidelines. (In the case you mention where the terms weren't acceptable, obviously, if you knew that, you wouldn't have submitted.)

I'm not a lawyer, but I do read legal cases as kind of a weird hobby, and you'd be surprised how informal contracts frequently are...which then seem to wind up as legal cases because one party doesn't think there's really a contract.

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Maybe it's the genre I write (SF/F), but I've never seen anything in any magazine's guidelines that submitting a story for consideration means I have to accept their terms if they choose my story. I wouldn't sub to a place that had that as a clause, either. Any editor who published a piece of mine without me agreeing to the terms in writing, either formally with a contract or informally by the editor stating the terms and me writing back to agree with them, would be on my shitlist forever.

Now whether it's technically legal or not is another thing. I don't think anyone would bother to sue unless the writer were a big name and backed out after the magazine advertized that they had a story appearing in X issue.

As an editor, I would never expect that someone submitting to us equates a verbal agreement to publish if we accept it. In fact, there have been a few times when someone has decided (for a variety of reasons) not to accept. That's fine, it happens all the time in publishing.

I will say, though, that if a contract is offered, and a verbal acceptance is given, it can create hard feelings if the author (or publisher) were to change their minds and back out just before signing the contract.

So, I always advise if an author is unsure, they don't offer a verbal agreement until they've seen the contract and know they're going to sign.

I've sold just about a hundred short stories, and so many articles I lost count long ago. Many magazines offer formal contracts, many others, including some top magazines, do not.

But what I have always been given is either an acceptance letter or, more rarely, a check. While there is no contract to sign with only an acceptance letter, I still must agree to the terms stated in the acceptance letter. With a check, signing and cashing it is acceptance.

I will say, however, that I have seen guidelines that state, "Submission means we have the right to publish." I have no problems with this as long as the rights also listed in the guidelines are acceptable.

But in whatever form acceptance comes in, if you've agreed, do not withdraw.

This is also one more reason I loathe simultaneous submissions.

Angela James said:

As an editor, I would never expect that someone submitting to us equates a verbal agreement to publish if we accept it. In fact, there have been a few times when someone has decided (for a variety of reasons) not to accept. That's fine, it happens all the time in publishing.

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One of the reasons I think submitting to your top markets first is the sanest plan is that you're unlikely to get into this situation following that path (especially if you don't simsub).

BTW, I never said that it's a good idea for a market to publish a work without re-confirming with the author -- just that it does seem to be a contract. Better to be safe than sorry.

Another area where I was published and received the issue at the same time as the acceptance was when I was submitting to small poetry journals in the late 80s early 90s. Since pay was in copies and they paid upon acceptance, that was seemingly the norm for that genre/time/place.