Dialogue - does quoted line always have to be at the beginning?

modernmillie · Aug 15, 2011

I've always been taught that in fiction the quoted line always goes at the beginning of the paragraph. But sometimes I want the action the person is doing to come before what she/he says. I've been breaking these into two paragraphs, though it would otherwise be in the same one.

For example:

I took out a fresh piece of wool and pressed it against the wound.

“Hold this here for me,” I said. He put his hand over the wool, and I began winding a strip of fresh bandage around his head.

Sure, I could just reword it to say, "Hold this here for me," I said, pressing a fresh piece of wool against the wound.

But after the preceding sentence, where she's ruminating on a different subject, it seems jarring for a second ... like WHAT is she telling him to hold???

Or

“How did you come about this injury?”

The smile vanished from his face.

“It’s nothing really,” he said, looking away. “Not a very good story.”

In that case, I could change it to "It's nothing really." The smile vanished from his face.

Or something like that. But to me "The smile vanished from his face" coming before the quote implies a pause before speaking.

I have several situations like this in the book. I've been breaking them up into separate paragraphs, so that a quoted line is always at the beginning of the paragraph. But would it be better to combined them up like so:

I took out a fresh piece of wool and pressed it against the wound. “Hold this here for me,” I said. He put his hand over the wool, and I began winding a strip of fresh bandage around his head.

AND

The smile vanished from his face. “It’s nothing really,” he said, looking away. “Not a very good story.”

In journalism, it's perfectly acceptable to combine up such paragraphs (I'm a former journalist), but I don't know about fiction.

slindeman · Aug 15, 2011

To answer your question, Dialogue does not always have to be at the beginning of the paragraph. I went through a few books just now to confirm this. Wodehouse, in one book I looked through, did start a new paragraph each time there was dialogue. Orson Scott Card, in one of his recent books, was about 80% new paragraphs and 20% combined paragraphs for the few pages I looked at. I checked a few pages of "The Help" and it was about 90% new paragraphs and 10% combined.

It looks combined action/dialogue is done, but sparingly.

Maryn · Aug 15, 2011

There's no such rule, nor is it a common practice in modern fiction, at least according to the novels I can reach from this chair.

You do want to be careful not to mix Character A's words and actions in the same paragraph with Character B's reply, reaction, action, etc., but other than that, pretty much anything goes.

Maryn knocked lightly on the door. "Stu, you awake?" is more correct than "Stu, you awake?" Maryn said after knocking lightly on the door. In the second version, the order of events is presented backward.

Maryn, kind of backward, but in other ways

IceCreamEmpress · Aug 15, 2011

modernmillie said:
I've always been taught that in fiction the quoted line always goes at the beginning of the paragraph.

That's not a rule, and moreover it's not a practice generally followed.

Now, it is annoying to read a back-and-forth conversation where there is a bunch of "business" before the dialogue, but that's a different question.

This is great:

He pulled out a gun. "Don't move," he said. "I'll shoot if you do."

This, not so much:

Joanne sighed. "I don't know what things are coming to."

Sue poured herself another cup of coffee. "You're always a pessimist!"

Bertha's phone went off. "Hello! Hello! I can't hear you!"

&c.

blacbird · Aug 15, 2011

No. Go look at some actual books.

caw

Raphee · Aug 15, 2011

To the OP: I don't think the examples you submitted do indicate a pause.

I know writers do this. But they do it in ways and situations that they make clear whose dialog line it is. Your examples do not require a different line for action, and different one for dialog, IMO.
My feeling might be biased because all you gave us are two lines of dialog. When reading a story, we have a more vivid image. We would know when reading the lines: who needs the bandage, who would be holding it etc.

tko · Aug 15, 2011

not to mention

Agree, plus you removed a dreaded "She said." Having a short tag first is sometimes more effective that a group of "he said, she said."

Maryn said:
Maryn knocked lightly on the door. "Stu, you awake?" is more correct than "Stu, you awake?" Maryn said after knocking lightly on the door. In the second version, the order of events is presented backward.

AmsterdamAssassin · Aug 15, 2011

I took out a fresh piece of wool and pressed it against the wound. “Hold this here for me.” He put his hand over the wool, and I began winding a strip of fresh bandage around his head

The smile vanished from his face. “It’s nothing really.” He looked away. “Not a very good story.”

areteus · Aug 16, 2011

It's not a rule but a matter of personal style. Write it in a way which seems comfortable to you and fits the story and then look at it critically in review and edit stages and decide if it stays that way or not.

And I agree about not having too many 'saids' in there... and using the same style for each piece of dialogue in a conversation makes it sound repetitive and dull.

bonitakale · Aug 16, 2011

modernmillie said:
I've always been taught that in fiction the quoted line always goes at the beginning of the paragraph. But sometimes I want the action the person is doing to come before what she/he says. I've been breaking these into two paragraphs, though it would otherwise be in the same one.

For example:
Sure, I could just reword it to say, "Hold this here for me," I said, pressing a fresh piece of wool against the wound.

But after the preceding sentence, where she's ruminating on a different subject, it seems jarring for a second ... like WHAT is she telling him to hold???

Or

In that case, I could change it to "It's nothing really." The smile vanished from his face.

Or something like that. But to me "The smile vanished from his face" coming before the quote implies a pause before speaking.

I have several situations like this in the book. I've been breaking them up into separate paragraphs, so that a quoted line is always at the beginning of the paragraph. But would it be better to combined them up like so:

In journalism, it's perfectly acceptable to combine up such paragraphs (I'm a former journalist), but I don't know about fiction.

No. There is a rule that a change of speakers means a change of paragraph, but that's not to say that the new paragraph needs to start with the speech. There's been a misunderstanding somewhere, if that's what you were taught.

I'd put the vanishing smile before the speech, because it happens before the speech. But they should be in the same paragraph, and could be in the same sentence.

modernmillie · Aug 16, 2011

Everything I've read says dialogue should start a new paragraph, but I've always wondered if that's an oversimplification. It seems books on writing/style/grammar never address the cases that are slightly outside the norm.

One book I read (I think it was The First Five Pages, by Noah Lukeman, but I might be wrong) said putting dialogue in the middle of a paragraph is a journalistic style that turns off agents. But his examples sounded nothing like these. They sounded more like quotes in a news article.

And to the person who said, "Go look at some actual books," I've read a zillion books and read more daily. But I don't really want to know what already-published authors are doing in this case. I want to know what it's best for meto do as a first-timer so that I don't turn off agents and editors.

When I'm an established writer, I'll feel more free to bend the rules on minor issues, but right now, I want to get it as "right" as possible so I don't give anyone an excuse to cast me aside (at least not for any reason other than that my book's no good!).

modernmillie · Aug 16, 2011

And thanks, guys, for the suggestions about taking out the "saids" ... I tend to over-said.

Anne Lyle · Aug 16, 2011

The "rule" I adhere to is that if the action happens at the same time as the dialogue, it should go on the same line - either before or after, as appropriate. If there's a pause between action and dialogue, a line break makes more sense.

I confess I'm guilty of the "action before dialogue" thing a little too much - but I'm getting better!

jeffo20 · Aug 20, 2011

My apologies for joining this thread a bit late. I was out of town.

modernmillie said:
Everything I've read says dialogue should start a new paragraph, but I've always wondered if that's an oversimplification.

I think the 'rule' you're referring to probably means each speaker gets a new paragraph. So you would say:

She poured herself a cup of coffee. "Would you like some, too?"

"Yes, please."

"Then get up and get it yourself."

BUT NOT:

She poured herself a cup of coffee. "Would you like some, too?" "Yes, please." "Then get up and get it yourself."

Michael E. Walston · Aug 30, 2011

Methinks paragraphing is more of an art than a science.

There's an old Nero Wolfe novel (Plot it Yourself) where Wolfe catches a murderer because his paragraphing is so distinctive.

Rufus Coppertop · Aug 31, 2011

modernmillie said:
And to the person who said, "Go look at some actual books," I've read a zillion books and read more daily. But I don't really want to know what already-published authors are doing in this case. I want to know what it's best for meto do as a first-timer so that I don't turn off agents and editors.

What's best for you to do as a first timer is what already published authors are already doing. They've already been represented by agents, they've already been edited by editors and their work has already been acquired by an acquisitions editor.

Whatever the already published authors are doing has been more than good enough for agents and editors.

There's a difference between reading zillions of books for enjoyment and looking at them to see how the already published authors have written them to a standard that does not turn off agents and editors.

I concur with Blacbird. Go and look! Look with a writer's eye rather than a reader's eye. It's actually good advice.

AmsterdamAssassin · Aug 31, 2011

Rufus Coppertop said:
What's best for you to do as a first timer is what already published authors are already doing. They've already been represented by agents, they've already been edited by editors and their work has already been acquired by an acquisitions editor.

Addendum: take particular care to study the FIRST books by established authors, because authors may be allowed to bend the rules with their later books, but rarely with the first few.

Dialogue - does quoted line always have to be at the beginning?

modernmillie

slindeman

Call me Scott

Maryn

Baaa!

IceCreamEmpress

Hapless Virago

blacbird

Raphee

In debt to AW

tko

just thanks fore everything

AmsterdamAssassin

areteus

bonitakale

modernmillie

modernmillie

Anne Lyle

Fantastic historian

jeffo20

Tyrant King

Michael E. Walston

Rufus Coppertop

AmsterdamAssassin