Verb Tenses

Chrisla · Jul 22, 2011

This is a paragraph from my WIP:

The sun finally peeked above the horizon, casting a red glow as it climbed higher. A ray found Sarah’s still form; touched her tangled hair, turning it red-gold; inched up to her face, where it lingered, stroking her bruised jaw; then crept up to her left eye. She stirred and stretched her legs, pushing them deeper into the sleeping bag.

In our writing group, we give printed pages to the others, read the material, then everybody comments. Often, though, they make punctuation or grammar corrections on the pages, without commenting.

Not until I got home and looked through the printed pages they'd returned to me did I discover that each and ever one of them had corrected a verb in that paragraph. Most of them changed "stroking" to "stroked." The English major changed "turning" to "turned."

Will some well-qualified person tell me exactly what is wrong with it as written? I can't see any difference between this paragraph and the sentence: "She altered her dress, making it more stylish," except, of course, that the sentence I used in my WIP is a compound sentence, made up of several like sentences.

Am I wrong? And if I am, will somebody please clarify it for me?

backslashbaby · Jul 22, 2011

I believe you are correct, grammatically speaking

That's a whole lotta verbs in that piece, though

pdr · Jul 22, 2011

Interesting.

I'd leave turning but would definitely change stroking to stroked.

Snick · Jul 23, 2011

I believe that your paragraph is correct. I think that it would be better if all of the participles were either present or past. It might be better, if the sentence structure were simpler.

bonitakale · Jul 23, 2011

Snick said:
I believe that your paragraph is correct. I think that it would be better if all of the participles were either present or past. It might be better, if the sentence structure were simpler.

Yeah, I think your readers were confused by the complicated sentence. The semicolons are technically correct, but they don't quite work, perhaps because the first phrase (found Sarah’s still form) isn't really parallel with the rest. It's more of a generalization that covers or introduces the specifics of where the ray touches her. It would be clearer broken up: A ray found Sarah’s still form. It touched her tangled hair, turning it red-gold; inched up to her face, where it lingered, stroking her bruised jaw; then crept up to her left eye.

(And I tend to think of hair as being above the face, rather than below.)

Chase · Jul 23, 2011

Chrisla said:
A ray found Sarah’s still form; touched her tangled hair, turning it red-gold; inched up to her face, where it lingered, stroking her bruised jaw; then crept up to her left eye.

As others have said, your choice of verb forms are correct.

You may gave stumbled into a group where members have convinced each other that all "ing" forms are to be avoided on principle. Such things happens.

What amazes me is everyone in your group and (so far) posters here think the semicolon use is okay. If the correct uses of semicolons has changed so radically from when I instructed English, I apologize:

1. For U.S. publications, semicolons separate main clauses.

A ray found Sarah’s still form; touched her tangled hair, turning it red-gold is a main clause. Everything afterward is not a main clause; thus, the semicolon is incorrect.

2. An exception is the use of semicolons separating items in a series after a colon for clarity if one or more items in the series contains commas.

In the sentence above, there's no colon. Semicolons are out of place.

If its construction is meant to be an asyndeton, in which normally occurring conjunctions are intentionally omitted, the semicolons only confuse the construction. Where's the clarity?

I'd also welcome an explanation from those with greater knowledge of U.S. punctuation and grammar.

Snick · Jul 23, 2011

In U.S. English semicolons can also be used between clauses when there are commas within the clauses. That is to decrease the confusion. I believe that the use of semicolons in the paragraph in question is not wrong, but I do think that the sentence structure should be simplified.

Something like this:

The sun finally peeked above the horizon and cast a red glow as it climbed higher. A ray found Sarah’s still form, touched her tangled hair, and turned it red-gold. The sunlight inched up to her face, where it lingered, stroking her bruised jaw. Then it crept up to her left eye. She stirred and stretched her legs, pushing them deeper into the sleeping bag.

Chase · Jul 23, 2011

Snick said:
In U.S. English semicolons can also be used between clauses when there are commas within the clauses.

I believe the above exception is most often applied to main clauses (independent clauses). However, for this discussion, let's use the definition of any common clause: a group of words containing a subject and finite verb.

Neither "touched her tangled hair, turning it red-gold" nor "inched up to her face, where it lingered, stroking her bruised jaw" nor "then crept up to her left eye" apply.

I dearly love semicolons, but these don't work.

Edit: If I were an editor trying to help a writer not already on several best-seller lists get published, I'd recommend a less controversial construction.

Terie · Jul 23, 2011

Snick said:
In U.S. English semicolons can also be used between clauses when there are commas within the clauses.

Yep, this is correct. It doesn't matter if a colon is used to introduce the items in a list; if one or more of the items include a comma, semicolons should be used to separate the items instead of commas.

Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary said:
[A s]emicolon separates phrases that contain commas.

The country's resources consist of large ore deposits; lumber, waterpower, and fertile soils; and a strong, rugged people.

Send copies to our offices in Portland, Maine; Springfield, Illinois; and Savannah, Georgia.

As for the OP's question, the verb tenses are correct. But even though the punctuation is also correct, it's not effective for today's style. I love semicolons when they're used correctly, but that paragraph puts me off. The complex structure makes it feel overwritten.

Chase · Jul 23, 2011

Okay, I stand corrected; rather I sit corected, as I am seated; except when going for coffee; then walked corrected.

Snick · Jul 23, 2011

While I was right (of course), I do think that a rewrite is what that paragraph needs.

Jamesaritchie · Jul 23, 2011

Stroking to stroked, but get rid of all those semicolons. They aren't needed, and do not work.

pegasus · Jul 23, 2011

Terie said:
I love semicolons when they're used correctly, but that paragraph puts me off. The complex structure makes it feel overwritten.

I agree that it feels overwritten. The graph made me slow down and examine its form as I read.

backslashbaby · Jul 23, 2011

Chase said:
Okay, I stand corrected; rather I sit corected, as I am seated; except when going for coffee; then walked corrected.

I agree that the semicolon use and the structure both need to be simplified, correct or not.

blacbird · Jul 23, 2011

Terie said:
that paragraph puts me off. The complex structure makes it feel overwritten.

Echo this. The grammar isn't the problem. I suspect some of the comments you're getting from your writing group making grammar suggestions derive from the overwritten nature of the thing, rather than the actual grammar itself. Your readers are seeing something that doesn't work, and have misdirected attention to nitpicking verbs rather than the real central issue.

I sense from this bit of writing that you're just plain trying too hard to get way more stuff jammed in there than you (and your readers) really need.

caw

Chrisla · Aug 4, 2011

Thank you, all of you, for your insight. I'll go back and look at that paragraph. I think I got sidetracked by their corrections and trying to figure out what was wrong with the structure. I should always remember, if several people see something wrong with material, there is probably something wrong. They may not know exactly what the problem is, but the fact that several people made the correction should have tipped me off that there was a problem.

Smirkin · Aug 9, 2011

Chase, I'm with you on the semicolons, and I was in charge of a high school English classroom less than 6 months ago.

I have never known a semicolon could be used in (what seems to me to be) the place of a colon. Isn't a colon supposed to precede items in a series? Did I teach all them kids the wrongest wayzz???

Chrisla · Aug 9, 2011

Smirkin said:
Chase, I'm with you on the semicolons, and I was in charge of a high school English classroom less than 6 months ago.

I have never known a semicolon could be used in (what seems to me to be) the place of a colon. Isn't a colon supposed to precede items in a series? Did I teach all them kids the wrongest wayzz???

According to the Chicago Manual of Style on the subject of colons: "When items in a series involve internal punctuation, they should be separated by semicolons."

They give this as an example (and you'll note there's no colon):

The defendant, in an attempt to mitigate his sentence, pleaded that he had recently, and quite unexpectedly, lost his job; that his landlady--whom, incidentally, he had once saved from attack--had threatened him with eviction; and that he had not eaten for several days."

Smirkin · Aug 10, 2011

learning learning learning, always learning....

Susan Coffin · Aug 10, 2011

Jamesaritchie said:
Stroking to stroked, but get rid of all those semicolons. They aren't needed, and do not work.

I agree with this.

Chrisla · Aug 10, 2011

As I posted earlier, I've read the comments and realized, since the sentence bothers so many people, that it needed to be rewritten. That I've already done. But there seemed to be so much confusion about the use of semicolons in a series, I had hoped to clear that up.

Thanks again, everybody.

Verb Tenses

Chrisla

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backslashbaby

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pdr

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bonitakale

Chase

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Snick

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Terie

Writer is as Writer does

Chase

It Takes All of Us to End Racism

Snick

Jamesaritchie

pegasus

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backslashbaby

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blacbird

Chrisla

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Smirkin

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Chrisla

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Susan Coffin

Tell it like it Is

Chrisla

practical experience, FTW

Verb Tenses

practical experience, FTW

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It Takes All of Us to End Racism

It Takes All of Us to End Racism

Writer is as Writer does

It Takes All of Us to End Racism

practical experience, FTW

~~~~*~~~~

practical experience, FTW

eating cookies late at night

practical experience, FTW

eating cookies late at night

Tell it like it Is

practical experience, FTW

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