My current debate involving "said"

I'm curious on this one too.

Very VERY generally, 'Mike said' is the US usage and 'said Mike' is the UK usage. But this only very VERY generally.

You should use whatever sounds best to your ear, but don't be surprised, should you get a publishing deal, if the publisher wants to change some or all of your 'said Mikes'. That (ahem) said, some publishers won't care and will leave them alone.

I'm an USian writer living in the UK who read buckets of British lit from childhood on, and I think I use both versions approximately equally. My US publisher didn't change any of them.

Short answer: don't worry about it. That's not a thing that will earn you a rejection letter.

Ditto.

Sometimes it flows better one way than another.

The said Mikey, feels too formal. But if that is the style of the story then by all means use it.

It's one of those niggly things I can't find any material on. Being from the UK, 'said Mikey' is more natural to me, ask me why and I couldn't tell you. I know common grammar sense classifies it as subject/verb/speech or speech/subject/verb, but when I read it that way, 'Mikey' sticks out, and doesn't add to the natural flow of a text.

I used 'said X' throughout and nobody anywhere said anything at all about it. Reading it either way doesn't bother me in the least.

There was a huge discussion on this same subject awhile back. I can't tell you where, but the search function will help you locate the thread.

I like said after the name, but said before the name can sometimes be interesting.

'said Mikey' feels, I don't know, a bit old-fashioned. Formal like Thoth said. YMMV.

There's nothing to say you can't use it though, and in some instances it would work better for rhythm. Anyway, like Terie said, if the editor isn't keen, they'll ask you to change.

I use both because they feel slightly different to me, and I use whichever one feels right for that sentence.

Is this something you are supposed to be consistent with?

I use either, depending on the rhythm and feel of the sentence.

I use both depending on that feels right with the sentence. Although, I would say I prefer 'X said'.

Either is acceptable. I think the less you use any of those tags the better.

Susan Littlefield said:

There was a huge discussion on this same subject awhile back. I can't tell you where, but the search function will help you locate the thread.

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There was. I started the thread with almost the same question. I was taken to extreme task for asking the question rather than reading some books to see how established writers do it. (I am an "established" writer, but I don't think any of my detractors realized it when all this went down.) I overreacted to the assault and things went downhill from there. Don't bother looking for it. I deleted all my posts so I could go away, come back later and restart with a clean slate. What's left of the thread will be out of context. I still sense some thinly veiled hostility from a few posters here, so be careful of subjects such as this one. Or, more to the point, be careful how you respond.

To answer your question, I use "name said" almost all the time. But I don't believe in rules in such matters, only guidelines, so, if it sounds right to you, give it a go.

Only if what is offered as a substitute identifier is as effective and non-intrusive.

Often the supposed preferable substitute isn't as effective and is intrusive .

Jonathan Dalar said:

Either is acceptable. I think the less you use any of those tags the better.

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Al Stevens said:

I was taken to extreme task for asking the question rather than reading some books to see how established writers do it.
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I still sense some thinly veiled hostility from a few posters here, so be careful of subjects such as this one. Or, more to the point, be careful how you respond.

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Puts me in mind of the firefights in our firearms advice section. None of us can stand to be civil.

I've been taken to extreme task by a former critique reader at another site for writing "said Les" rather than "Les said."

The public ridicule was "said the prince" outside fairy tales for children is cloying and unprofessional. By the time the dogpile of her agreeing friends ended, I was pretty sure I'd never put another creative word into public forum, ha ha ha.

Chase said:

The public ridicule was "said the prince" outside fairy tales for children is cloying and unprofessional.

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Oh, good grief! I just pulled one of the most popular books of our time off my shelf and randomly opened it. Here are some examples.

"Welcome," said Hagrid, "to Diagon Alley."

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"The whole school's out there," said Fred Weasley....

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"...you've got your little friends with you," said Harry....

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"Fifty points, each," said Professor McGonagall....

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"Don't play," said Hermione at once.

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Now, of course these quotes are from a children's book. But 'cloying and unprofessional'? I'll take JKR's 'cloying and unprofessional' any day of the week, thank you very much!

I could find just as many examples, in as little time, from other British books, both children's and adults', and it wouldn't be hard to find plenty of examples in American books, too, even though it's not the predominant style in the US. But I'm not going to waste my time for that dogpile of agreeing friends who quite obviously just don't read enough. (snark!)

There's nothing wrong with always using 'Mike said' nor with always using 'said Mike'. There's also nothing wrong with mixing it up.

Terie said:

There's nothing wrong with always using 'Mike said' nor with always using 'said Mike'. There's also nothing wrong with mixing it up.

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I'll admit I've been somewhat gun-shy since the experience, Chase said.

Good therapeutic discussion, said Chase.

slightly off topic, but I definitely prefer "said + character" when there's a description. For example:

"Perp took off down the fire escape," said the young policeman standing just inside the door said.

Chase said:

Puts me in mind of the firefights in our firearms advice section. None of us can stand to be civil.

I've been taken to extreme task by a former critique reader at another site for writing "said Les" rather than "Les said."

The public ridicule was "said the prince" outside fairy tales for children is cloying and unprofessional. By the time the dogpile of her agreeing friends ended, I was pretty sure I'd never put another creative word into public forum, ha ha ha.

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Must be the same one I went to, hun. Only my whipping was by a man. I got the 'Thou shall not ever, ever, evereverever, use said x'

@ Al, I'm sorry to hear that, hun. I'm not an established writer (had about eight pieces of poetry published, that's it); I do have a degree in English Lang/Linguistics, but that far from qualifies me from knowing anything, let alone everything Reading 'said x' or 'x said' in a piece of fiction won't explain why it's done. And it's the why that makes me understand and learn.

Putting said first is simply against the norm, and reads really strange to most modern ears. And the important word is the character's name, not "said", so it simply works better to put the name first in adult fiction.

Children's fiction often reverses this, however, and for roughly the same reason, but geared to how a child's mind works.

You can do either, but you;re risking throwing an editor or agent off balance a bit, and this is not a good thing. I've seen it in manuscripts, and it's so distracting I have trouble focusing on the story.

Pick up twelve of your favorite adult novels and see how those writers did it. Do likewise. You gain nothing by putting said first, but may lose a lot.

@James, James Herbert, British horror writer switches to both: he's adult. His constructions are:

"Dad, there's no such thing," chided Loren, indignant again.

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"Can we get out now, daddy," came Cally's impatient voice...

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(secret Of Crikley Hall, J. Herbert)

Also Shaun Hutson: horror, adult:

"You're not allowed in here," said the same voice...

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(Hybrid: Hutson)

"Who the fuck is this?" snarled Ray Gorman.

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(Exit Wounds: Hutson)

He does use 'x said', but he also mixes.

An American novel I picked up off the shelves does X said mainly throughout (The Infinite Instant, Danielle L Parker (hope you don't mind, hun!!)).

Maybe if we pick up twelve authors from each side of the pond we can judge if it's a difference in style choice...?

skylark said:

I use both because they feel slightly different to me, and I use whichever one feels right for that sentence.

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This is exactly it.

Dialogue is all about rhythm and flow. Part of that rhythm is where to put in tags and where not to, esp in a longer stretch of dialog.

Another is the "said" construction. The construction "Bill said" is the most common, and slips by the readers eye most easily, kind of like how the word "said" becomes almost invisible. That's why, imo, it should predominate.

But there are times that "said Bill" absolutely works better. If you have a good ear for sentence rhythm it will come naturally, and there's absolutely no reason not to use it, and no reason to worry about consistancy.

Judicious use will make your ms read and flow better. My personal preference is to use it sparingly, because that's what works best for my style, but the bottom line is what works for you.