Usage of 'suffice (it)'

I think the 'it' is implied but it's not necessarily shown.

Somebody will know for sure.

ETA- Obviously I don't! I know the 'it' is shown in parenthesis in the dictionary, but....one learns all the time

Bigglesworth said:

There's a construct that's long puzzled me, so I thought I'd throw it out for discussion: is there a definite call on how something like the following should be written:

"Suffice (it) to say, the vicar had gone too far."

Should the word 'it' be used?

[SUB]Apologies if its an old chestnut; I didn't find any thread title matches after a quick search![/SUB]

Click to expand...

The Dictionary be your friend, matey! Arrrrrgh!

Suffice it to say

- 1 dictionary result
Idioms & Phrases
suffice it to say
It is enough to say this and no more, as in Suffice it to say that the judge was furious when the invitation was withdrawn . Late 1600s.

Click to expand...

As it may be that . . . I mean, may that as it be. . . . No, it's that may be as it. . . . Wait! Be that as it may, those older idioms are hard on newer generations.

Correct as shown. It is somewhat archaic usage, but that would fit certain time periods and styles of narration well.

"Suffice it to say" is the correct usage.

yep, suffice it to say.

It think it's an inversion... English is weird sometimes. I mean what does "come what may" mean and why not "what may come"? Even native speakers could scratch their heads and say, "Well, that's how it's always been..." let alone trying to confuse non-native speakers.

maestrowork said:

It think it's an inversion... English is weird sometimes. I mean what does "come what may" mean and why not "what may come"? Even native speakers could scratch their heads and say, "Well, that's how it's always been..." let alone trying to confuse non-native speakers.

Click to expand...

Try using both of these. "What may come" is very difficult to use with any brevity, is clumsy at best, and doesn't even work in some cases. Come what may is not the inversion, what may come is.

How do you diagram "come what may"?

The expression 'Come what may' is a much used and well known phrase.

Non-native speakers simply have to learn it - same as any other similar coloquial expression.

Thus my comment:

Even native speakers would ... say, "Well, that's how it's always been..." let alone trying to confuse non-native speakers.

Click to expand...

maestrowork said:

How do you diagram "come what may"?

Click to expand...

Correctly. It's in the proper order. How do you diagram "what may come"? As I said, try using both.

For instance, if someone asks, "Are are going to go to Harvard next year?"

As easy reply is, "Yes, come what may."

Try answering this with any variation of "What may come."

At best, it gets overly wordy, and at worst it sounds like you don't have English as a first langauge.

English grammar is brutal on non-native speakers (and native speakers when they're young). For all my friends from elsewhere who ask me why, I can only say, "English is f*cked." Suffice it to say, they agree.

Jamesaritchie said:

Correctly. It's in the proper order. How do you diagram "what may come"? As I said, try using both.

For instance, if someone asks, "Are are going to go to Harvard next year?"

As easy reply is, "Yes, come what may."

Try answering this with any variation of "What may come."

At best, it gets overly wordy, and at worst it sounds like you don't have English as a first langauge.

Click to expand...

You're saying this because it's an idiom -- it's always been that way, and that's why it sounds right. It's not an explanation in terms of grammar. You're explaining it by saying, "It's always been this way."

"What may come" or "whatever may come" is grammatically correct because it adheres to the "subject+verb" syntax. In this case, "what" or "whatever" is a pronoun, "may" is a modal verb, and "come" is the verb.

"Come what may," on the other hand, is a strange construct grammatically. It doesn't adhere to the standard English syntax.

Mom'sWrite said:

English grammar is brutal on non-native speakers (and native speakers when they're young). For all my friends from elsewhere who ask me why, I can only say, "English is f*cked." Suffice it to say, they agree.

Click to expand...

I don't know about all languages, but the ones I do know have similar idioms. I asked "why?" many times learning German in Germany and French in college.

In a class for Japanese businessmen wanting to be more familiar with Idaho idioms, one engineer became miffed at the many idioms for death and dying: "kicked the bucket," "bought the farm," "went west," "shuffled off this mortal coil," "passed away/on," etcetera.

At the end of his rant, one of his countrymen asked him to say his uncle had passed. They all laughed. He'd said something like his uncle had walked into the mist of Fujiyama.

It's not only English that's seriously coitused.

maestrowork said:

"Come what may," on the other hand, is a strange construct grammatically. It doesn't adhere to the standard English syntax.

Click to expand...

Yup. It's still an inversion, like "suffice it to say," but the syntax is a bit more complex:

Suffice it (to say) --> It suffice... ("Let it suffice...")

Come what may --> What may ____ come ("Let what may ___ come")

Notice something? "What may" is incomplete. It lacks the main verb, come. This ellipsis is possible, because the verb can be inferred from its prior occurance. If you undo the inversion, there is no prior inversion, so you need to put the come back in:

What may come come. ("Let what may come come.")

So: Verb[Come] Subject[What may (come)].

Thanks! Now it makes sense.

"Let what may come come" => "Come what may"

"Let it suffice to say" => "Suffice it to say"