Ending sentences with 'ly'

I don't know.

The general advice I always hear is to keep adverb use (usually ly words) to a minimum.

The idea is to find a stronger verb, rather than to use an adverb to strengthen the verb you are using.

So, instead of saying 'he ran quickly', you would say 'he dashed'.

The only time this 'stronger verb' advice is not given is with speech.

Rather than say 'he said sadly' the advice would not to be strengthen the verb to 'he moaned', or 'he sobbed', but rather to just write 'he said' and to convey the emotion through the words he speaks.

Complicated stuff, isn't it?

I'm not fond of adverbs. It would depend on how often you use them and how, but me, I would kill it.

Technically, it's fine. There is nothing wrong with ending on an -ly word.

But adverbs should be used sparingly.

"She said stiffly" makes me giggle uncontrollably.

"Let's get it on," he said stiffly.

"I'm not ready yet," she replied dryly.


Sorry. I'll go away now.

alleycat said:

"Let's get it on," he said stiffly.

"I'm not ready yet," she replied dryly.

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"Ahhhh," he ejaculated prematurely.

It's fine.

Oooo! Yet another fake grammar rule!

There are miles between 'minimise your use of adverbs' and 'don't end sentences with adverbs.' The first is good advice, the second is nothing less than a fake rule that someone made up.

Seriously. A simple fix to accommodate your friend's fake rule would be:


Grammatically, this sentence is fine; it also abides by your friend's fake rule. Does that make it an effective sentence? Methinks rather not!

So. 'Minimise adverbs'? Yes. 'Don't end sentences with adverbs'? No.

Need confirmation? Open the books on your shelves and skim them for examples. I guarantee that you'll find sentences that end with adverbs.

Also? IMO, your original sentence is perfectly fine. Removing the adverb changes the meaning, and any other alternative adds words without any real benefit. If you've already minimised your use of adverbs, this one instance isn't a problem.

alleycat said:

"Let's get it on," he said stiffly.

"I'm not ready yet," she replied dryly.


Sorry. I'll go away now.

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Oh, you made me laugh! Truly laugh, not just giggle or chuckle. Thank you! I needed a good laugh today!

The "LY" isn't the problem. The problem is that the sentence doesn't stop with "says." When you start describing how your character says something, you're usually in trouble, regardless of which word you use.

Trust your dialogue, and trust your reader to understand how something is said without being told.

Jamesaritchie said:

The "LY" isn't the problem. The problem is that the sentence doesn't stop with "says." When you start describing how your character says something, you're usually in trouble, regardless of which word you use.

Trust your dialogue, and trust your reader to understand how something is said without being told.

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I don't know what kind of trouble you're suggesting results from describing how a character says something, but the list of authors who do so is long and distinguished.

RobJ said:

I don't know what kind of trouble you're suggesting results from describing how a character says something, but the list of authors who do so is long and distinguished.

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Maybe. But all too often adverbs used in this manner are superfluous, redundant, or simply lazy and flabby ways of stage-directing the reader. Things like "shouted loudly", "growled menacingly", etc.

The trick with using an adverb behind says is to make it counter-intuitive and with impact.

"I could have sworn you were dead," she said gaily.

RobJ said:

I don't know what kind of trouble you're suggesting results from describing how a character says something, but the list of authors who do so is long and distinguished.

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The "trouble" generally is that the dialogue is weak, or the context is weak, or it's totally unnecessary if the dialogue and context already convey it. The "trouble" is when a writer depends on the adverbs to deliver, it becomes lazy writing and not much thought goes into the dialogue or context, or "show vs. tell."

It happens to even the most seasoned writers. Yes. And that doesn't mean it's not lazy writing just because JK Rowling did it, too.

Learn to make your dialogue and context do the work, instead of using adverbs, which are mostly "tell only."

But, if you want to use adverbs, go ahead. No one is pointing a gun at you to stop you. It really is quite simple. Take the advice you agree with and apply them. Ignore the ones you don't agree with. There's no need to rebut with "yes, that's what you say... but so-and-so does it so it has to be right."

Jamesaritchie said:

The "LY" isn't the problem. The problem is that the sentence doesn't stop with "says." When you start describing how your character says something, you're usually in trouble, regardless of which word you use.

Trust your dialogue, and trust your reader to understand how something is said without being told.

Click to expand...

I happen to agree with this. He said/says, she said/says fits just fine. Most of the time, if you read the entire scene, the meaning is clear without adding extra words. It's all about show don't tell.

Wikipedia has a nice little entry on Tom Swifties:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Swifty

The puns you've seen in this thread are examples, but the joke came about because of stereotypically bad writing that used a lot of adverbs in dialogue tags. As this is a common mistake beginning writers make, you'll often see warnings against it.

I'm of the school of thought that "rules" like this are guidelines only. Good writing can and does occasionally include the judicious use of adverbs in dialogue tags. All writers, however, do well to practice using the dialogue itself and context to convey emotion, so as to avoid the Tom Swift trap.

I don't see anything wrong with the line you posted, but it's one line. The real issue pops up when you make a habit of those pesky adverbs.

maestrowork said:

The "trouble" generally is that the dialogue is weak, or the context is weak, or it's totally unnecessary if the dialogue and context already convey it. The "trouble" is when a writer depends on the adverbs to deliver, it becomes lazy writing and not much thought goes into the dialogue or context, or "show vs. tell."

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What trouble, Ray? What trouble are writers in when they start using adverbs to describe how a character says something? What happens to the writers or their writing as a result of using the adverbs? If it means their dialogue is weak, if it means the context is weak, if it's lazy writing, why are so many writers who use adverbs in this way so successful?

maestrowork said:

It happens to even the most seasoned writers. Yes. And that doesn't mean it's not lazy writing just because JK Rowling did it, too.

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It would be trivial to generate a long list of seasoned authors who use adverbs to describe how a character says something. Whether Rowling is included in the list or not doesn't matter. There are plenty of others using adverbs with dialogue and shifting novels in volume. So what trouble comes to them as a result of using the adverbs in this way?

maestrowork said:

Learn to make your dialogue and context do the work, instead of using adverbs, which are mostly "tell only."

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Adverbs are no more "tell" than nouns and verbs. The idea of avoiding adverbs because they're 'tell' just sounds silly, and you don't have to read many books to recognise how silly an idea it is.

maestrowork said:

But, if you want to use adverbs, go ahead. No one is pointing a gun at you to stop you. It really is quite simple. Take the advice you agree with and apply them. Ignore the ones you don't agree with. There's no need to rebut with "yes, that's what you say... but so-and-so does it so it has to be right."

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It's not about whether I want to use them or not. It's about the idea, as stated above, that using them is a 'problem' or results in some kind of 'trouble'. Many of the most successful contemporary writers use them. I don't see any evidence that using adverbs to describe how a character says something is a problem. No-one has to if they don't choose to, but using them in this way is perfectly normal, and that's reflected in a great deal of fiction not just in the past, but today also.