Outline Assistance

[MountainGirl]

I am new to the site as far as posting goes, but when I found this site several weeks ago it answered several questions I had. Since I havent seen a question about this particular thing pertaining to outlines I had to ask it. If I missed it, could someone point me in the right direction? I would appreciate it.

Anyway I am writing the outline for my manuscript to send out as some agents request. I bought this really informative book about formatting and submitting your manuscript. It tells you alot about writing outlines but it left me with a question! I was reading it and it shows to make sure each page for each chapter of your manuscript should start where the other one left of. Which makes sense. The example in the book though starts off with "This chapter begins with." So my question is this, should every page for each chapter begin that way? To me it sounds repetitive. I dont want to make a mistake so I am wondering how others have done it. Any advice will be welcome.

[Maryn]

I wouldn't start more than one chapter's paragraph that way. I might avoid it completely, actually, since it's pretty much telling the obvious.

Now, I have not sent an outline to an interested agent, so please don't mistake my advice for a rule or even something that's worked for me. But if your outline is broken down chapter by chapter, you might consider something like:

Chapter 12: Bonnie finds an empty presciption drug container bearing her name hidden deep in the wastebasket. She confronts M'jib, who insists a little purple pill does no harm. Enraged, Bonnie restrains, then eviscerates, her foreign exchange student.
Chapter 13: Bonnie buys a new mattress for the guest room...

Isn't that better than "This chapter begins with"?

Maryn, who thinks so

[Bufty]

Mountain Girl, are you confusing an Outline with a Synopsis. As far as I am aware an Outline such as you mention is only used when submitting an idea for a manuscript before that manuscript is written, and usually for Non-Fiction.
I presume you are talking about fiction and a completed manuscript, in which case as you probably know, a Query Letter is normally sent to an Agent and containing a brief para or two about your novel and asking if you may send a Synopsis and sample chapters/the full manuscript.

Follow the Agent's requirements but some Agents refer to sending an Outline when they really mean a Synopsis.

Any help?

[MountainGirl]

Maryn- I see what you mean and that's what I thought too! I just wanted to make sure before putting all that time into it doing it a different way. Thanks for the help.


Bufty-I am positive I am not confusing the two. In Writer's Market there are some agents that request both outline and synopsis, along with the first 3 chapters of the manuscript. And as I said, I did get that outline information from the book I just bought about formatting everything to do with your manuscript to increase your chances of an agent and an editor taking notice of you.

I have already written a synopsis but now I have to write the outline. Which is more time consuming then writing the synopsis. At least for me.

[Cathy C]

but now I have to write the outline


Why? While they're quite common for non-fiction books (which often have different subjects per chapter), I've never seen a fiction agent request an outline before. Whose bio in Writer's Market requests one? I'd be interested to know if it's becoming a trend.

[Dru]

Regarding the Chapter Headings for the Outline: I think you can still have an outline without denoting the page, chapter or scene number where things occur. Essentially the outline IMHO should be less 'exciting' and more detailed version of the synopsis (based on length of the current synopsis).

So instead of -
Bonnie goes on a homicidal rampage after discovering her exchange student has been abusing prescription drugs in her name. (synopsis)

Turns into -
Bonnie finds an empty prescription drug container bearing her name hidden deep in the wastebasket. She confronts M'jib, who insists a little purple pill does no harm. Enraged, Bonnie restrains, then eviscerates, her foreign exchange student.
Bonnie buys a new mattress for the guest room...

Just a thought though. I'd love to hear other people's take on the idea. Is there a difference in the level of detail or 'excitement/zing' between an outline and a synopsis? I imagine a synopsis should still be like the query and have some 'zing' to it, as you are pitching, whereas the outline might be more of the mechanical details of what happens when.

[MountainGirl]

Some of the agents requesting an outline are:

The Joy Harris Literary Agency, Inc.
Helen Rees Literary Agency
BJ Robbins Literary Agency
Steele-Perkins Literary Agency


All of the above represent fiction!


Dru I see your point. So basically I should take my synopsis and add the fluff (I had to make sure wasnt in it the first time.)? This going through chapter by chapter and writing down the basics and everything is time consuming and frustrating for me. The synopsis went so much better for me but I had help from a friend of mine's mother who writes books so I think her advice helped me. She was very knowledgeable and when you have that it makes that whole task less daunting.

I wish the terms werent used interchangeably between agents and editors. It can get confusing. If you call the agency's to clarify you could stand the chance of sounding uppity and I dont want that. So my strategy was submit query letters first then onto the next set of stuff.

[Cathy C]

Well, other than Steele-Perkins, the agencies handle both NF and Fiction. I would imagine that they're using the terms (synopsis and outline) interchangably, but perhaps not. I do have a couple of friends who are represented by Pattie Steele-Perkins, so if you'd like, I could ask if she means synopsis, even though it says outline. While I've seen a few outlines, Pattie handles primarily women's fiction and romance, where I haven't seen outlines much at all. But I'll check and post back here with what they say.

[Dru]

MountainGirl,

Honestly, I was just trying out an idea. I wouldn't say 'add the fluff' but more like 'detail the progress of the novel step by step'

I think it would be better to get confirmation from Cathy C. if you can. Especially if you can get it from one of the specific agencies that are requesting an outline.

Now, if you've sent a query already and the response was 'send an outline and synopsis' you might ask directly. Something along the lines of 'just want to confirm what you want, since the terms are used differently by different groups' or something like that. Again, I'd let the submission elders guide you on your way for best approaches.

I'm just a wee fishie in this pond, working on getting my own WIP ready for sub.

[jst5150]

The 2006 "Writer's Market" book offers hints in that direction. Invaluable tome. Always best to follow what the market wants rather than be a maverick ("who is the tall dark stranger there, Maverick is his name ..."). If not, use a periwinkle crayon and scribble one out on bar napkins. :-)

[MountainGirl]

Thanks for the help everyone. I really appreciate it. The Writer's Market has become a close friend of mine. :)

Cathy that would be really helpful if you could let me know that. If I don't have to write an outline I would prefer not to. Not that I wouldn't do what I could to get my WIP published, but outlines are such a pain.