My novel

[macandal]

Maybe what I'm experiencing are the right of passages every writer goes through, but, how can you get someone to read yor novel and tell you, objectively, if it is good or not? I've had a college professor of mine read fragments through the years (to the point of her almost having read 80% of the novel) and she's recommended most of the agents I've queried (well, at least 50% of them). Another friend of mine, a retired college professor, has also read it and liked it. He even said, it was the book he would have wanted to write. Friends have read it and liked it, but the thing with friends is that they're not going to talk you out of what you enjoy doing. They will support you. My question is simple, where do you go for an honest critique of your novel? Paying for it is out of the question, how can I find an objective reader? Thank you.

[maestrowork]

I'm luck that I have friends who are honest enough to tell me the truth if I've written crap. I trust them. They're supportive but at the same time they also won't tell lies. If they don't like something they would tell me. It helps that some of them are readers and some aren't. The readers can tell me where my ms. stands compared to the other books they've read. The non-readers serve as a barometer... if they can't finish my book (or take a VERY long time) then I know something is not right.

[Jamesaritchie]

Send it to an agent or an editor. Trust me, they'll be completely objective.

[Maryn]

Although my long-time critique group has dwindled to the three hard-core members (and no longer includes the driven one who would not accept criticism), I'm grateful to have at least these two beta readers standing by.

If you've got nothing like that, there are methods of recruiting. One is to post a sample here in Share Your Work, concluding with the request for beta readers. Another is to join reading groups (lots more of those than writing groups) where you live and see if you can find someone who regularly reads the genre you're writing.

Maryn, who hopes both these methods pan out

[macandal]

If you've got nothing like that, there are methods of recruiting. One is to post a sample here in Share Your Work, concluding with the request for beta readers. Another is to join reading groups (lots more of those than writing groups) where you live and see if you can find someone who regularly reads the genre you're writing.

I've posted a couple of pieces here in Share Your Work.

[scarletpeaches]

Send it to an agent or an editor. Trust me, they'll be completely objective.

Ha ha, I like that James! :D

(Speaking of which, I did just that this afternoon. Fingers crossed)!

[arrowqueen]

Lol, James! Good lad. Well put.

[macandal]

Send it to an agent or an editor. Trust me, they'll be completely objective.

Well, it's kind of difficult when you get form rejections that tell you nothing (except 'thanks but no thanks').

[macandal]

I was thinking about showing my novel to my friends' reading groups (3 of my friends have reading groups). Has anyone here ever done that? What sort of questions should one ask beta testers? Thanks.


:idea:

[katiemac]

You might want to rethink asking beta readers questions at all. It's when they ask you questions that you'll know what needs improving.

[Celia Cyanide]

I agree with KatieMac. If there are specific questions you need to ask, they will probably be specific to your manuscript, and you'll know what they are. For example, there might be a character who is unpleasant, but I don't want that person to be the bad guy, so I would ask someone what they thought of that character.

[scarletpeaches]

I would suggest using open ended questions to beta readers, just to prompt them into feeling as if they can be honest with you. This can help if they're not very expressive in speech usually. For instance, "What did you like and dislike about Character A?" or "How did you feel when Character B did this? Why do you think he did this?"

[brinkett]

For instance, "What did you like and dislike about Character A?" or "How did you feel when Character B did this? Why do you think he did this?"
I'd never ask beta readers such specific questions. I don't expect them to analyze what I've written--it's not an English assignment. I'm interested in anything that pulls them out of the story or drags the story down. If I asked five beta readers, "How did you feel when character B did this?" I'd probably get five different answers. What would it mean?

The best way to get honest feedback from beta readers is to work with people who don't know you in real life. They won't be terribly concerned about potentially hurting your feelings because there aren't any real consequences if they do. Plus, they don't have to watch you sob over your keyboard.

Just kidding about that last part.

[Danger Jane]

Ugh, yes, it's hard to get somebody who won't tell you everything's simply AMAZING but won't make you feel like crawling under a rock. I've got a former teacher who is a great beta reader. She's smart and critical and I don't ask her for analytical feedback, she gives it to me anyway. I wouldn't expect this from everyone, though. I don't press people for more than they read out of something.

[cwfgal]

Send it to an agent or an editor. Trust me, they'll be completely objective.

Not really. If they were all totally objective they would all agree on what is good and what isn't. They don't. My first published book garnered a note from one agent that said, "don't give up your day job."

And most times the only feedback you get is a preprinted letter or postcard that says something to the effect of, "not for us."

Many writers feel at one time or another as if they are writing in a vacuum, unsure of whether or not they have any skill and forced to rely on questionable feedback from friends and family members. Years ago when I was sending stuff out and getting multiple rejections, I knew enough about the business to realize that those rejections might mean my work sucked, or they might mean it simply didn't appeal to those particular agents, or it might mean I was a tad bit off on what was hot for the market at the time. How to tell the difference? If my writing truly sucked, I wanted to know that. If I had some talent and the rejections were merely a matter of timing/subjectivity/persistence, I wanted to know that, too. I felt my writing was decent enough but I'd read some truly awful stuff produced by writers who felt the same way about their own work. I didn't trust my own objectivity and I was starved for some good, knowledgeable, objective-as-possible feedback.

I eventually found that feedback when I took several creative writing classes that involved critiques and I ultimately hired the teacher from one of those classes (a published novelist and starving grad student) to do a line-by-line critique of the novel I was then shopping around. It was the best time and money I ever spent. It helped me to see that I did, indeed, have some talent but that I needed to improve certain skills. The next novel I wrote was the first one I sold.

Not every writer can afford to hire someone the way I did (truth be told, I couldn't afford it myself when I did it but I managed to scrape some funds together because I was desperate for that level of feedback) and free critiquers may be of questionable value. But if you can hook up with a good beta reader who isn't afraid to be honest and who has enough knowledge to critique writing skill issues (grammar, spelling, passive voice, POV consistency, sentence structure, show vs tell) as well as problems with story, plot, overall flow, etc., it can be a very rewarding relationship.

Beth

[DamaNegra]

Well, I send what I write for my friends to read. Although some of them do say things only to make me feel good, others do have the courage to go and say: 'you know, this is crap', and even though they aren't neither readers nor writers, they try and point out what they didn't like and what they liked about my stories.

If you can't get honest friends though, try an english (or spanish or french or italian or whatever language you're working with) teacher that has never taught you before, that would be a very objective opinion.

Your third choice will be the editor, but sometimes they don't tell you what's wrong or right with your writings.

Another choice would be those pages where you post your works for other writers to criticize. It's always an excellent start

[Nateskate]

Please don't assume I'm being critical, but I'm not sure what your question is? If you had two reasonably well educated people tell you that they liked what you wrote, then what is causing you to question your story?

Do you see flaws, or question whether they were being sincere?

So you believe in your story?

I'm not against making sure you have a blockbuster, but it's best to identify what the issue is? If you believe its not good enough, absolute write does editing, and can possibly help, as could a dozen others here.

If you think it's good enough, but need confidence, another dozen pats on the back may help, but in any case, what do you have to lose if you write a good query letter and send them out, and see what happens?
In my own case, I had Beta Readers rave about my story. (Which I gave in parts) However, at points they didn't seem to read through them fast, and they didn't have to tell me those parts were dragging. Lack of comments can sometimes be as telling as negative comments. "Well, I don't like battle scenes anyway..."